Is that Fenno-Nordid type? Classify

[Bydlo]

https://www.kasparov.ru/content/materials/200803/47D7CF1A115DD.jpg
https://www.ljplus.ru/img4/m/e/mezak/Savva-s-pismom.JPG

[sevruk]

Nordo-Uralische

[Bydlo]

Nordo-Uralische
What is F-N then?

[Immanenz]

No i rather lean towards a more Graciler East Nordid or Neo Danubian

[travv]

Fenno-Nordid by Eickstedt.

https://i.imgur.com/CBQcdWB.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/08mYlZs.jpg

[Altaylı]

Fenno-Nordid by Eickstedt.

https://i.imgur.com/CBQcdWB.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/08mYlZs.jpg


Is Fenno-Nordid nordo-mongol type?

[Immanenz]

Fenno-Nordid by Eickstedt.

]

Eickstedt Fenno Nordid is basically East Batlic from Coon . I think close to what people consider Fenno Nordid is what is decribed as White Sea Baltic. Now much more interesting is what is really representative for finnic people.

[Komintasavalta]

I think the Fenno-Nordid morphs at HPT have red hair, because for some reason Eickstedt thought that red hair was common among Finnic peoples (which possibly included "Volga Finns", even though these days in Uralistics, the term "Finnic" is synonymous with the term "Baltic-Finnic") (https://www.theapricity.com/earlson/race/nordish.htm):


The third and final type was the fenno-nordische Unterrasse (Fenno-Nordic subrace). This subrace is characterised as having reddish-blond hair, "water-blue eyes" (wasserblau Augen), an angular body-build and often, quite broad heads. According to Eickstedt, this type is more common in Eastern, rather than Western Europe, particularly amongst the Finnic tribes, hence its name.

In the map by Eickstedt below, I think Mordvin regions are supposed to Nordid and Komi regions are supposed to be Lappid, even though their locations are way off. So maybe Eickstedt thought that the Fenno-Nordid area included Mordovia, because one of his examples of the Fenno-Nordid type was the Mordvin man posted by travv.

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/map-eickstedt-eur.jpg

Lundman thought that the Savolaxid type was possibly a mixture between Tavastid and Fenno-Nordid (https://theapricity.com/snpa/rastyper-04.htm):


2. Möjligen är dock denna typ från början en mellanform mellan tavasttypen och en av en del forskare antagen nordrysk rastyp: "den fennonordiska".

Translation:


2. However this type may initially have been an intermediate form between the Tavastid type and a Northern Russian type adopted by some reaserchers: "the Fenno-Nordid".

[Altaylı]

I think the Fenno-Nordid morphs at HPT have red hair, because for some reason Eickstedt thought that red hair was common among Finnic peoples (which possibly included "Volga Finns", even though these days in Uralistics, the term "Finnic" is synonymous with the term "Baltic-Finnic") (https://www.theapricity.com/earlson/race/nordish.htm):


The third and final type was the fenno-nordische Unterrasse (Fenno-Nordic subrace). This subrace is characterised as having reddish-blond hair, "water-blue eyes" (wasserblau Augen), an angular body-build and often, quite broad heads. According to Eickstedt, this type is more common in Eastern, rather than Western Europe, particularly amongst the Finnic tribes, hence its name.

In the map by Eickstedt below, I think Mordvin regions are supposed to Nordid and Komi regions are supposed to be Lappid, even though their locations are way off. So maybe Eickstedt thought that the Fenno-Nordid area included Mordovia, because one of his examples of the Fenno-Nordid type was the Mordvin man posted by travv.

https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/map-eickstedt-eur.jpg

Lundman thought that the Savolaxid type was possibly a mixture between Tavastid and Fenno-Nordid (https://theapricity.com/snpa/rastyper-04.htm):


2. Möjligen är dock denna typ från början en mellanform mellan tavasttypen och en av en del forskare antagen nordrysk rastyp: "den fennonordiska".

Translation:


2. However this type may initially have been an intermediate form between the Tavastid type and a Northern Russian type adopted by some reaserchers: "the Fenno-Nordid".

So Nordo-Mongol?

[Östsvensk]

I think the Fenno-Nordid morphs at HPT have red hair, because for some reason Eickstedt thought that red hair was common among Finnic peoples (which possibly included "Volga Finns", even though these days in Uralistics, the term "Finnic" is synonymous with the term "Baltic-Finnic") (https://www.theapricity.com/earlson/race/nordish.htm):

Red hair is common among some Finnic groups, but in Finland, Coon said that red hair was less common than among NW Europeans.



The third and final type was the fenno-nordische Unterrasse (Fenno-Nordic subrace). This subrace is characterised as having reddish-blond hair, "water-blue eyes" (wasserblau Augen), an angular body-build and often, quite broad heads. According to Eickstedt, this type is more common in Eastern, rather than Western Europe, particularly amongst the Finnic tribes, hence its name.

In the map by Eickstedt below, I think Mordvin regions are supposed to Nordid and Komi regions are supposed to be Lappid, even though their locations are way off. So maybe Eickstedt thought that the Fenno-Nordid area included Mordovia, because one of his examples of the Fenno-Nordid type was the Mordvin man posted by travv.

It seems that what von Eickstedt called Fenno-Nordid is what other authors called East Baltic. Then what is the Osteuropid type of his?


Lundman thought that the Savolaxid type was possibly a mixture between Tavastid and Fenno-Nordid (https://theapricity.com/snpa/rastyper-04.htm):


2. Möjligen är dock denna typ från början en mellanform mellan tavasttypen och en av en del forskare antagen nordrysk rastyp: "den fennonordiska".

Translation:


2. However this type may initially have been an intermediate form between the Tavastid type and a Northern Russian type adopted by some reaserchers: "the Fenno-Nordid".

Then Fenno-Nordids must have had more Mongoloid admixture because according to Lundman, Savolaxids have little Mongoloid admixture while Tavastids have negligible.

The Distribution of Anthropological Traits in Europe, p. 266:


The somewhat isolated region of East Karelia in northwestern European Russia shows very divergent blood group proportions: high q, moderate r, but very low p. These proportions are found among the Finns as well as among the Russians who have been living in this region since olden times. In total these blood group proportions are almost "East Siberian" values. However, they are probably only the result of "genetic drift" among this still partially isolated population with a very weak degree of Mongolid admixture.

The Racial History of Europe, p. 121:


We find weak, but well-attested, Mongolid traits among the blondest East-Baltid groups. These traits show how old—in part before the process of depigmentation — a weak Mongolid admixture must be in northern Russia — from the northeast onward. Evidently, it is much older than the Mongolid admixture in the formerly East-Mediterranid southern Russia. In this part of Russia the present still somewhat weaker frequency of blood type gene q shows that the Scythians in antiquity had scarcely any Mongolid strains!

[Komintasavalta]

It seems that what von Eickstedt called Fenno-Nordid is what other authors called East Baltic. Then what is the Osteuropid type of his?

They're even different subspecies of Homo sapiens. Fenno-Nordid is "Homo sapiens europaeus finnicus" and Osteuropid is "Homo sapiens slavonicus (intermedius)" (https://humanphenotypes.net/typ/e37.html).

[Östsvensk]

They're even different subspecies of Homo sapiens. Fenno-Nordid is "Homo sapiens europaeus finnicus" and Osteuropid is "Homo sapiens slavonicus (intermedius)" (https://humanphenotypes.net/typ/e37.html).

It seems that Agrippa (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/member.php?181-Agrippa) dismissed Fenno-Nordid as a term. He wrote this on Dodona many years ago:


Fennonordid is a really difficult term which isnt that useful in my opinion after discussing about it with others.

Osteuropid was explained by me on Stirpes and otherwhere. It includes East and West Baltid, Neodanubian is a term mainly used by Coon, whereas Baltid is a much wider used term.
Ladogan = Lappid and Lappid influence is probable in East Baltids.

Teutonordid (Eickstedt) or Skandonordid (Lundman) is basically the same and means the classic leptomorphic Nordid type (including Hallstatt).

To human: Well, as I said to you, I gave you for East Asia the basic metrical differences in indices to distinguish the Sinid block from the Palaemongolid in the other thread I mentioned (Lucy..).
These results weren't made by Eickstedt only, but are widely accepted and his interpretation is still one of the best one and his biodynamic theory for East Asia was found in the genetic results of last years. (North-South gradient, mixture with protomorphic populations of the South, expansion of the classic Mongolid types in the South).

Furthermore you should understand his typological concept which is not the same as population. Nordsinid is a type, it only dominates in certain population and is clearly visible.

[Golden Lining]

Eickstedt's Osteuropid = Coon's Ladogan
Coon's East Baltic = Nordic/Corded+Brunn/Borreby+Ladogan
Coon's Neo-Danubian = Nordic/Danubian Med+Ladogan

Coon's system is half-typological, half-populationist, that's why it can be confusing. Eickstedt's is strictly typological (well, case can be made that e.g. West-Sibirid doesn't fit that criteria).