The Serbian role in the creation of the Macedonian nation

[Bugarash]

Macedonian Bulgarian intelectual-Hristo Matov and his book,published in 1897 about the ''serb pretensions in western Bulgaria''-Macedonia.
Where he speaks about the serbian plans of imposing a fake macedonian ideology as aidentity of the macedonian Bulgarians!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/41/Hristo_Matov_Srabskite_Pretentsii_v_Zapadna_Balgar ia.jpg

''the serbs are hoping to create a fake macedonian nation from the macedonian Bulgarians,and in that way stoping the unification of the Bulgarian nation-which scares them''

http://www.picvalley.net/u/2484/33709945219299622271316146687adAeRVdkrZLoJWJIPrrj. BMP

[пустиняк]

The fact that the first Macedonian dictionary („Речник от три йезика с македонски, арбански и турски ") was written by Georgi Pulevski with Serbian money and published in Belgrad tells everything.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/Trijazicnik.PNG/250px-Trijazicnik.PNG

[iNird]

The fact that the first Macedonian dictionary („Речник от три йезика с македонски, арбански и турски ") was written by Georgi Pulevski with Serbian money and published in Belgrad tells everything.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/5f/Trijazicnik.PNG/250px-Trijazicnik.PNG

Eh not really. First off there are theories that Georgi Pulevski (Gjergj Puli) is Albanian (Pule means chicken in Albanian, could refer to a chicken breeder.) Even his attire is more similar to those of Albanians than a Serb.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Georgi_Pulevski.jpg

Secondly that image you provided is a dictionary of 3 different languages Turkish, Albanian and Serbian. So I don't think the example you provided tells us much.

:confused:

[пустиняк]

Eh not really. First off there are theories that Georgi Pulevski (Gjergj Puli) is Albanian (Pule means chicken in Albanian, could refer to a chicken breeder.) Even his attire is more similar to those of Albanians than a Serb.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Georgi_Pulevski.jpg

Secondly that image you provided is a dictionary of 3 different languages Turkish, Albanian and Serbian. So I don't think the example you provided tells us much.

:confused:


Georgi Pulevski is Bulgarian from Galichnik he fought in Serbian-Turkish war in Bulgarian legion. Also he fought in Russo-Turkish or Osvoboditelna how we call it. And Pulevski or Pulev is typical Bulgarian surname. Give one evidence that he is Shiptar. He never identifies as such.

Also you can in the pic I posted that Macedonia language which is pure propaganda I don't know what you can't understand

[Trun]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Pulevski

I'm sure in Skopie his monument is next to Alexander... :laugh:

[пустиняк]

пълни глупости са тва ма то щом за тех и Александър е шиптър кво да говорим

[Trun]

Сите са македони...недей така :laugh:

Между другото имам прапрадядо от http://bg.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B5%D0%B1%D1%8A%D1%80
Така че да се знае че и аз имам в себе си гените на Сашо Великий :laugh:

[пустиняк]

Urpean the three languages are Macedonian (Bulgarian) Albanian and Turkish.
The dictionary which is pure propaganda because there is no such thing as Macedonian language was made with Serbian money and acts like this were always supported by Serbian government

[пустиняк]

I think it will be interesting to see what IMARO leader Vancho Mihailov said about Macedonism and it's roots in Serbian capital :laugh:

edyC1QvIbxE

The first part of the interview
gOo_4tlsffI

[Europa]

Eh not really. First off there are theories that Georgi Pulevski (Gjergj Puli) is Albanian (Pule means chicken in Albanian, could refer to a chicken breeder.) Even his attire is more similar to those of Albanians than a Serb.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bd/Georgi_Pulevski.jpg

Secondly that image you provided is a dictionary of 3 different languages Turkish, Albanian and Serbian. So I don't think the example you provided tells us much.

:confused:Incorrect! Georgi Pulevski ( or Ѓорѓија Пулевски, ; 1817 – 1895) was a writer and revolutionary from Macedonia, known today as the first author to express publicly the idea of a separate Macedonian nation distinct from Serbs and Bulgarians, as well as a separate Macedonian language. Pulevski was born in 1817 in Galičnik (today Republic of Macedonia, then under the rule of the Ottoman Empire) and died in 1895 in Sofia, the capital of what was then the newly independent Principality of Bulgaria.His language was an attempt at creating a supra-dialectal Macedonian norm, but with a bias towards his own native local Galičnik dialect The text of the Rečnik contains programmatic statements where Pulevski argues for an independent Macedonian nation and language later, during the Russo-Turkish War of 1877-1878, which led to the independence of Bulgaria, he was leader ("voijvod") of a unit of volunteers fighting on the Russian-Bulgarian side, taking part in the Battle of Shipka Pass.In his last work: “Jazitshnica, soderzsayushtaja starobolgarski ezik, uredena em izpravlena da se uchat bolgarski i makedonski sinove i kerki"; ('Grammar, containing Old Bulgarian language, arranged and corrected to be taught Bulgarian and Macedonian sons and daughters'), he considered the Macedonian dialects as part of the Bulgarian language.Pulevski chose to write in the local Macedonian Slavic rather than the Bulgarian standard based on eastern Tarnovo dialects.:coffee:

[morski]

Even in 1914 the Carnegie Commission report states that the Serbs and Greeks classified the Slavs of Macedonia as a distinct group "Slav-Macedonians" for political purposes and this term is "political euphemism designed to conceal the existence of Bulgarians in Macedonia".[15]

# ^ "A comparison of the ethnographic and linguistic maps drawn up by Messers Kantchev, Tsviyits (Cviyic) and Belits, with the new frontiers of the treaty of Bucharest reveals the gravity of the task undertaken by the Servians. They have not merely resumed possession of their ancient domain, the Sandjak and Novi-Bazar and Old Servia proper (Kosovo Pole and Metchia), despite the fact that this historic domain was strongly Albanian; they have not merely added there to the tract described by patriotic Servian ethnographers as "Enlarged Old Servia"; over and above all this, their facile generosity impelled them to share with the Greeks the population described on their map as Slav Macedonian a euphemism designed to conceal the existence of Bulgarians in Macedonia. And their acquisitions under the treaty of Bucharest went beyond their most extravagant pretensions. They took advantage of the Bulgarians' need to conclude peace at any price to deprive them of territories to the east of the Vardar, for example, Chtipe and Radoviche, where Bulgarian patriotism glowed most vividly and where the sacrifices accepted by Bulgarian patriots for the sake of freeing Macedonia, had always been exceptionally great. This was adding insult to injury"


The Serbian politician Stojan Novaković proposed in 1887 employing the Macedonistic ideas as they means to counteract the Bulgarian influence in Macedonia, thereby promoting Serbian interests in the region.[14]

^ From the report of S. Novakovic to the Minister of Education in Belgrade about Macedonism as a transitional stage in Serbianization of the Macedonian Bulgarians - BULGARIAN ACADEMY OF SCIENCES - Institute of History - Bulgarian Language Institute, MACEDONIA, DOCUMENTS AND MATERIALS - Sofia 1978.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographic_history_of_Macedonia#cite_note-13
http://www.kroraina.com/knigi/en/ban/ls1.html#34

[mihaitzateo]

Dude you people from Ex-Yugoslavia are incredibile,FYROM,Croatia,Serbia and Montenegro speaks same language,however,they are 4 nations,on the fact they look different.
(at least this is what you are saying).
If it would be after this kind of "logic" Romania should split at least in 3 different regions,because the language is spoken with different accent and there are very few regional words,which are characteristic for that region.
But that is pure nonsense.

For me people from FYROM,Croatia,Serbia and Montenegro are not different nations,no ideea how different are bulgarians from you,I think bulgarian is also mutually inteligible with serbo-croatian language.

Edit:
Sorry it seems I have not documented really well,only Serbia,Croatia and Montenegro and Bosnia are speaking same language,FYROM speaks a little different language:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Slavic_languages

[morski]

Ivan Hadjinikolov1 on the Serbian propaganda in Macedonia which led to the creation of the Revolutionary Organization 1892

After 1888 Serbian propaganda in Macedonia became very active and began to attack even the Soloun High School. With money and big promises, the Serbian agitators succeeded in misleading about forty high school pupils and in sending them to Belgrade, but after a year's stay, they ran away to Sofia. The same propaganda spends enormous sums of money on opening Serbian schools all over Macedonia, bribing a few mercenary people in each settlement. The Turkish government and the Constantinople Patriarchate were at their service. Knowing that there are no Serbians in Macedonia, these activities of the Serbian agitators made me very indignant. In my attempts to find a means of counteracting this propaganda, I came to the conclusion that only an underground revolutionary organization could neutralize the foreign propaganda in Macedonia, and it would be the most reliable support for the preservation of Bulgarian national feeling in Macedonia, and would help to strengthen the population both morally and economically. In my speculations on the formation of .a revolutionary organization, I foresaw that I will encounter difficulties on the part of the supporters of the Exarchate and the Exarchate itself, which maintained a policy of centralization in the church and in the schools: it appointed and dismissed the school teachers and the bishop's deputies. That is why IJ began to look for like-minded people from among teachers and citizens, whc favoured decentralization in religious and educational matters. Such people I found in the persons of Peter Poparsov2 and Dimiter Tsonev and, later, in Doctor Hristo Tatarchev,3 a school doctor. I did not rely on other colleagues born in Macedonia, as I knew their views and characters.

In May 1892 the chairman of the Soloun commune, the priest Ivan Madjarov, overtook me in the street and said to me: 'I am coming from the town hall. I went to ask the vali again to order the opening of the church in the village of Novo Selo (district of Soloun) where Exarchists and Patriarchists could go to church, even though the latter consists of two houses. This is what he replied: "Damn your schools and churches! Listen to me, priest! We shall put up with you for a year or two more. In two years' time, we shall leave you to come to grips with the Serbians and the Greeks and shall watch the show "' The cynical words of the vali Zehni Pasha made my blood boil, and I decided to start organizing the underground movement as soon as possible. I had already four supporters at my disposal: P. Poparsov, Dr. H. Tatarchev Dimiter Tsonev and H. Batandjiev.4 But I thought we were very few. Besides I wanted to have someone among us with greater authority and more experienced in conspiratorial work. I did not find such a person among the intellectuals in Soloun, nor in Macedonia in general. That is why I decided to go to Sofia during the holidays and find such a man among the emigrants.

In June 1892 I left for Sofia. There I met K. Shahov and disclosed my plans to him and he recommended Gotse Delchev,5 still a cadet, as a suitable and authoritative man. Shahov made an appointment in his printing house for the following Sunday, when cadets could leave school. When we met, I described the development of the national cause in Macedonia, told them about the threat of the valis and about the results of the Serbian propaganda and put this question to them: 'Isn't it time we founded a revolutionary organization in Macedonia?' Both answered in the affirmative. But they wanted me to describe to them what, in my opinion, the principle of the secret organization should be. I gave the following answer to their question:

1. The revolutionary organization should be founded in Macedonia and be active there so that the Greeks and Serbians should not consider it as a weapon of the Bulgarian government.
2. Its founders should be local citizens living in Macedonia.
3. The political slogan of the Organization should be autonomy of Macedonia.
4. The Organization should be secret and independent and should not establish contacts with the governments of neighbouring countries.
5. From the Macedonians in Bulgaria and the Bulgarian population it should ask only for moral and material support for the struggle of the Macedonian revolutionaries.

We discussed the five basic principles and agreed fully on all scores. As far as the authoritative person was concerned, after exchanging thoughts and opinions with Shahov and me, Gotse said: 'Look here, Mr. Hadjinikolov, so much time has passed, let another year go by. I will be graduating from the Military School next year and I have no intention of remaining an officer in the Bulgarian Army. I'll return to Macedonia, then I'll come to Soloun and we shall talk it over and, if there are possibilities, we'll form the Organization.' Gotse and I parted, expressing the hope of seeing each other in Soloun next summer.

„Илюстрация Илинден", София, 1936 г., кн. 1, стр. 4-5; (Magazine Ilustratsia Ilinden), Sofia, 1936, book I, pp. 4-5; the original is in Bulgarian

1 Ivan Hadjinikolov, born in Koukoush, one of the founders of the Revolutionary Committee in Soloun towards the end of 1898 (IMARO) and a member of the Central Committee of the Internal Organization.

2 Peter Poparsov (1872-1941), bom in the village of Bogomila, district of Veles, one of the founders of the Revolutionary Committee in Soloun towards the end of 1893. Author of the first Statute of the Organization.

3 Dr Hristo Tatarchev, born in Resen, one of the founders of the Internal Revolutionary Organization and for many years Chairman of the Central Committee in Soloun, and afterwards its representative abroad in Sofia.

4 H. Batandjiev, one of the founders of the Revolutionary Committee in Soloun towards the end of 1893.

5 Gotse Delchev (1872-1903), born in Koukoush, one of the founders and leaders of the IMARO. Towards the end of 1896 representative abroad in Sofia of the Organization, later a member of the Central Committee and chief organizer and leader of the armed forces of the Revolutionary Organization.

http://www.kroraina.com/knigi/en/ban/ls1.html#34

[morski]

Dude you people from Ex-Yugoslavia are incredibile,FYROM,Croatia,Serbia and Montenegro speaks same language,however,they are 4 nations,on the fact they look different.
(at least this is what you are saying).
If it would be after this kind of "logic" Romania should split at least in 3 different regions,because the language is spoken with different accent and there are very few regional words,which are characteristic for that region.
But that is pure nonsense.

For me people from FYROM,Croatia,Serbia and Montenegro are not different nations,no ideea how different are bulgarians from you,I think bulgarian is also mutually inteligible with serbo-croatian language.

Edit:
Sorry it seems I have not documented really well,only Serbia,Croatia and Montenegro and Bosnia are speaking same language,FYROM speaks a little different language:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Slavic_languages

I'd like to give you this friendly advice: in the future abstain from commenting on topics you know close to nothing of. :thumb001:

[brunette]

Montenegro yup Southern Serbians from that province have Macedonian ancestry. Thracians do have Greek blood also. I don't get the whole ''Former Yugoslavian Repbulic of Macedonian'' especially the Goths landed in North Central Greece so I see Thracians as a combo of Pontic Greeks ( Northern Greeks ) and Eastern Europeans ( Bulgars Bulgarians Southern Slavics )

[morski]

Montenegro yup Southern Serbians from that province have Macedonian ancestry. Thracians do have Greek blood also. I don't get the whole ''Former Yugoslavian Repbulic of Macedonian'' especially the Goths landed in North Central Greece so I see Thracians as a combo of Pontic Greeks ( Northern Greeks ) and Eastern Europeans ( Bulgars Bulgarians Southern Slavics )

:lol00002:

Sorry, but that's completely incoherent...

[brunette]

:lol00002:

Sorry, but that's completely incoherent...

How is it, you're not a Slavic propagandist are you?

[Kanuni]

How is it, you're not a Slavic propagandist are you?

:confused:I am afraid you are not making sense at all.

[morski]

How is it, you're not a Slavic propagandist are you?


in·co·her·ent (nk-hîrnt)
adj.
1. Lacking cohesion, connection, or harmony; not coherent: incoherent fragments of a story.
2. Unable to think or express one's thoughts in a clear or orderly manner: incoherent with grief.

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/incoherent

[brunette]

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/incoherent


I know what incoherent means, i'm asking you what part of the passage I have typed doesn't make sense.

The Ostrogoths Goths, a Eastern Germanic tribe settled in North Greece. Thrace is in North Greece on the Bulgarian border. You disagree with that?

[morski]

I know what incoherent means, i'm asking you what part of the passage I have typed doesn't make sense.

The Ostrogoths Goths, a Eastern Germanic tribe settled in North Greece. Thrace is in North Greece on the Bulgarian border. You disagree with that?

So what? What is your point and how is it connected to the OP?

[brunette]

It's to do with the story since the whole topic today is Slavic nations Bulgaria and Serbia denouncing the Greek Input in Thrace or people who have Thracian ancestry, thus making Thracians 100 percent Slavic. You call yourself a Thracian Wog so do you look Pontid or Alpine Med like a ''Wog'' or a Balkanian... or do you look like a Russian or Polish Slav.

[morski]

It's to do with the story since the whole topic today is Slavic nations Bulgaria and Serbia denouncing the Greek Input in Thrace or people who have Thracian ancestry, thus making Thracians 100 percent Slavic. You call yourself a Thracian Wog so do you look Pontid or Alpine Med like a ''Wog'' or a Balkanian... or do you look like a Russian or Polish Slav.

This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.

[Europa]

Montenegro yup Southern Serbians from that province have Macedonian ancestry. Thracians do have Greek blood also. I don't get the whole ''Former Yugoslavian Repbulic of Macedonian'' especially the Goths landed in North Central Greece so I see Thracians as a combo of Pontic Greeks ( Northern Greeks ) and Eastern Europeans ( Bulgars Bulgarians Southern Slavics )

Actually,despite the style of writing the following part has some truth:Goths landed in North Central Greece so I see Thracians as a combo of Pontic Greeks ( Northern Greeks ) But this has nothing to do with the subject.So stay on topic!

[brunette]

Actually,despite the style of writing the following part has some truth:Goths landed in North Central Greece so I see Thracians as a combo of Pontic Greeks ( Northern Greeks ) But this has nothing to do with the subject.So stay on topic!

Sorry English is not my first language.

[Europa]

It's to do with the story since the whole topic today is Slavic nations Bulgaria and Serbia denouncing the Greek Input in Thrace or people who have Thracian ancestry, thus making Thracians 100 percent Slavic. You call yourself a Thracian Wog so do you look Pontid or Alpine Med like a ''Wog'' or a Balkanian... or do you look like a Russian or Polish Slav.

There are only assumtions about how Thracians looked like,so saying You call yourself a Thracian Wog so do you look Pontid or Alpine Med like a ''Wog'' or a Balkanian does not really apply here.Once again stay on topic:ranger:

[brunette]

This has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.


Macedonian Bulgarian intelectual-Hristo Matov and his book,published in 1897 about the ''serb pretensions in western Bulgaria''-Macedonia.
Where he speaks about the serbian plans of imposing a fake macedonian ideology as aidentity of the macedonian Bulgarians!

Macedonians are Greeks Bulgarians and Southern Serbians so they're fighting against themseleves over nothing. All of them have a connection to Macedonia.

[Heretik]

Dude you people from Ex-Yugoslavia are incredibile,FYROM,Croatia,Serbia and Montenegro speaks same language,however,they are 4 nations,on the fact they look different.
(at least this is what you are saying).
If it would be after this kind of "logic" Romania should split at least in 3 different regions,because the language is spoken with different accent and there are very few regional words,which are characteristic for that region.
But that is pure nonsense.

For me people from FYROM,Croatia,Serbia and Montenegro are not different nations,no ideea how different are bulgarians from you,I think bulgarian is also mutually inteligible with serbo-croatian language.

Edit:
Sorry it seems I have not documented really well,only Serbia,Croatia and Montenegro and Bosnia are speaking same language,FYROM speaks a little different language:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Slavic_languages

For someone who is 33 years old you surely know little. As somebody said, please abstain from commenting if you have no clue what you are talking about. :thumb001:

Let us all stay ontopic here. Bulgarian, Macedonian, Greek and Serbian descent can be discussed elsewhere.

[hajduk]

For me people from FYROM,Croatia,Serbia and Montenegro are not different nations,no ideea how different are bulgarians from you,I think bulgarian is also mutually inteligible with serbo-croatian language.
No, it cant be done, also we're different compared to them

[morski]

Macedonian Bulgarian intelectual-Hristo Matov and his book,published in 1897 about the ''serb pretensions in western Bulgaria''-Macedonia.
Where he speaks about the serbian plans of imposing a fake macedonian ideology as aidentity of the macedonian Bulgarians!

Macedonians are Greeks Bulgarians and Southern Serbians so they're fighting against themseleves over nothing. All of them have a connection to Macedonia.

So called Southern Serbians are serbianized Torlaks.

And most of the Serbs in Macedonia are not local but descendants of the gendarmes, administrators, teachers etc. who colonized Macedonia for the Ygoslav kingdom after WWI.

[brunette]

So called Southern Serbians are serbianized Torlaks.

And most of the Serbs in Macedonia are not local but descendants of the gendarmes, administrators, teachers etc. who colonized Macedonia for the Ygoslav kingdom after WWI.

Yes, i'm not sure at what point or how far back the colozination took place. You can help me with that. :thumb001:

[morski]

The way I see it, based on all I read on the matter, the Serbs were cut off from their rightful Westward and North-Westward expansion once their modern state was established by the Habsburg dual empire. That's why they concentrated their resources and efforts on the South- Kosovo and Macedonia. They had already received Pomoravie (Torlak lands) after the Russo-Turkish war of 1877-1878. They started an armed propaganda in Macedonia which succeeded in producing such Serbomans as (B)Laze Koneski and Lazo Kolishevski for example. After they got Macedonia after the wars 1913-1918 they started colonizing it sending settlers there- gendarmes, administrators, teachers, clergy etc.

[brunette]

Oh yeah I heard of the Russian Turkish war, that was over Circassia also.

[Crn Volk]

a little before the time of cvijic and novakovic....

LETTER OF PROTECTION FROM THE EMPEROR
LEOPOLD I
TO THE MACEDONIAN PEOPLE (737)


April 26th, 1690
Vienna 1690, April 26
Leopold, etc.

This is to inform you that the two Macedonians, Marko Kraida born in Kosana (738) and
Dimitri Georgi Popovic, born in Macedonian Salonika, have told us that the Macedonian
people, with respect for our most righteous task, with devotion and zeal towards our
service and with a serious intention, are of a mind to come over under our protection from
the great Turkish slavery if our mercy and patronage are given for certain. Therefore, in
line with our inborn kindness and with the inspired mercy to show protection to those who
are close to us and to the holy Christian religion, we graciously accept them under our
imperial and royal mercy and in any case and way the above-mentioned Macedonian
people, cordially recommending to each and all of our willing commanders not to attack
the Macedonian people, nor to cause them difficulties, but as far as it is in their power,
always to guide and to protect them, and to assist them in their aims. Generally, to enable
them security and certainty that they may esteem more of lour imperial and royal favours,
laws and freedoms. If any of the people of the same nation decide to fight under the
leadership of our above-mentioned captains and under our banner, let such intentions be
encouraged rather than prevented. We also allow them, with the previous knowledge and
approval of our commander, to gather in one unit and to act separately, or to join with our
own and in that way to have greater power to fight against the common enemy. For that
aim they will enlist under the mentioned commander and, according to his orders and with
God's aid, let them protect our regions for the general well-being. Everyone as far as his
strength allows is not to miss an opportunity for collaboration.
Issued in Vienna, April 26th, 1690.
Representatives (739): defenders of the Macedonian people who have passed into the
regions of his Imperial Majesty. Reported in Vienna, April 26th, 1690. M. Pauer.
For Veterania (740).
J. Radonich, Prilozi za istoriu Srba u Ungarskoj u XVI, XVII i XVIII veku. Knijga prva.
Knj. Matitse srpske, broj 25 i 26. Novi Sad 1908, str. 52-53.
12
(737) After the retreat of the Austrian army from Macedonia and after the crushing of the
Karposh uprising in 1689, many Macedonians had left their native towns and crossed over
to Austria. Two of them begged the Emperor Leopold I to take the Macedonian people
under his protection. Here the protective letter of Leopold I is given. It was written on
April 26th, 1690.
(738) Kosana, the present-day city of Kozani.
(739) The text that follows is written on the edge of the front side of the document page.
(740) Veterani, a commander who fought on the southern front against the Ottomans.
(Pages 170 and 171, The University of “Cyril and Methodius”, Documents on the Struggle
of the Macedonian People for Independence and a Nation-State, Volume I)

[morski]

I see it's hard for you to understand that since Roman times up until 1944 Macedonia and Macedonian were geographical terms only.

[Crn Volk]

I see it's hard for you to understand that since Roman times up until 1944 Macedonia and Macedonian were geographical terms only.

The same can be said of medieval Bulgaria and Byzantium for example, who were not nation-states.

[morski]

The same can be said of medieval Bulgaria and Byzantium for example, who were not nation-states.

Bulgaria was an emprie that's for sure.:thumb001:

[poiuytrewq0987]

The same can be said of medieval Bulgaria and Byzantium for example, who were not nation-states.

Sorry to break it to you, Sokol, but nationalism is a very new idea. The idea of ethnic kinship, however, isn't. You need to learn to differentiate the two. There was an established ethnic kinship from Ohrid to Pliska where a people spoke the same language, worshiped in the same Church, and went to the same schools.

If you don't like the name Bulgaria then too fucking bad because it IS your name that YOUR grandfathers, great-grandfathers, great-great-grandfathers ... going all the way back to the medieval period used. It is YOURS and ... MY name. This Macedonism silliness has only brought shame to us as a people ... and 'tis a shame you seem to be proud to bear.

Concerning nationalism and nation-states: if I have to name an event when nationalism began to take root as an idea it would be the Hundred Years' War. A war where people living in England and France initially fought for their dynasties but later began to fight for their country.


The way I see it, based on all I read on the matter, the Serbs were cut off from their rightful Westward and North-Westward expansion once their modern state was established by the Habsburg dual empire. That's why they concentrated their resources and efforts on the South- Kosovo and Macedonia. They had already received Pomoravie (Torlak lands) after the Russo-Turkish war of 1877-1878. They started an armed propaganda in Macedonia which succeeded in producing such Serbomans as (B)Laze Koneski and Lazo Kolishevski for example. After they got Macedonia after the wars 1913-1918 they started colonizing it sending settlers there- gendarmes, administrators, teachers, clergy etc.

I agree. One thing I still struggle with is why the Serbs won't admit to their role in creating Macedonism. The Greeks initially played with the idea of Macedonism by calling the people living in the imaginary region Macedonian Slavs in an effort to Hellenize them. They later realized the possible consequences if it failed and backed off. The Serbs didn't. We have a monstrosity of two million Macedonians adhering to this new religion and the national fascism of Gruevski-ism to thank them for.

[Lemon Kush]

It was created by Tito, not by Serbs.