Proto-Turks?

[cass]

How representative those guys are?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eaxzv6obf8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VG5HU9U4QY&t=182s

btw sounds great

[Proto-Shaman]

Well Osman I was Z93 though.

[Altaylı]

Proto Turks:
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRpnICms0wcdf1tAI_PdgdBOdQ6i1dSo V6h2g&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQW1hlzCkI-R0THtpMC5SrSujIdGmuCL-0Zow&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQDbJziO655iQacHh9XW_C46ri0fnhVd HV3CA&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRL50YdcSJ6bLa9reAxpZwJsQ45o-sSJ7dn9Q&usqp=CAU

[Turul Karom]

https://i.imgur.com/os6CoMz.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/2ZUwZqh.gif

[Kaspias]

Well Osman I was Z93 though.

This information is based on an individual who names himself as a descendant of Osmanoğlu in the former ysearch. There is no proof on it, not even mention a scientific article or a speech from the Osmanoğlu family supports it.

[Austrvegr]

How representative those guys are?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2eaxzv6obf8


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7VG5HU9U4QY&t=182s

btw sounds great

These guys are Turkified Kurds and Armenians. The original Turkics (Huns) were fully Mongoloid.

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2012192235050080.jpg

[cass]

How about Uyghurs? Many of them don't look particularly mongoloid.

https://i.ibb.co/3C2pGYJ/44.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/sqGZxRM/Mihrigul-Tursun-Uyghur-She-was-detained-in-China-Photographed-at-the-National-Press-Club-Washington.jpg (https://ibb.co/PgndXjf)
https://i.ibb.co/Cb7wJXB/46.jpg (https://ibb.co/QPNJ8q9)
https://i.ibb.co/s3qfDBz/uyg.jpg (https://ibb.co/JkH1bhg)

[Immanenz]

what about genetics than posting some ranodm people

[cass]

what about genetics than posting some ranodm people

Uyghurs are now quite European (25–37%), South Asian ancestries (12–20%), and the other from the East, with Siberian (15–17%) and East Asian (29–47%)
https://academic.oup.com/mbe/article/34/10/2572/3864506

Probably it was even higher during migration time.

[Mejgusu]

what about genetics than posting some ranodm people

Just an example, they were between 30-50% east eurasian. Individuals showed 20-70%, they probably looked like Bashkir-Uzbek or Bashkir-Turkmen mix:

https://preview.redd.it/pyady35fhyw41.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&93ff266e

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?251969-G%F6kt%FCrk-GEDmatch-results
https://www.reddit.com/r/TurkicHistory/comments/gdyndb/the_gedmatch_results_of_a_gokturk_78th_century_i/

[Nanushka]

https://tr.pinterest.com/pin/305118943482350415/

https://tr.pinterest.com/pin/305118943482350415/

104636

so, blonde blacksmith proto-Turks, is it surprising?

no, not at all :)

1930, with greywolf

[cass]

Just an example, they were between 30-50% east eurasian. Individuals showed 20-70%, they probably looked like Bashkir-Uzbek or Bashkir-Turkmen mix:

https://preview.redd.it/pyady35fhyw41.jpg?width=960&crop=smart&auto=webp&93ff266e

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?251969-G%F6kt%FCrk-GEDmatch-results
https://www.reddit.com/r/TurkicHistory/comments/gdyndb/the_gedmatch_results_of_a_gokturk_78th_century_i/

Very informative. Thx.

50% Southwest_Finnish +25% Tabassaran +25% Yakut @ 9.959872
So they were quite NW shifted?

[Mejgusu]

Very informative. Thx.

50% Southwest_Finnish +25% Tabassaran +25% Yakut @ 9.959872
So they were quite NW shifted?

It depends on, but i wouldnt say that mix is accurate or true. Since Turkics were always a dynamic people, who never stayed in a specific area, they varied regarding some components for example some were ugric, some were iranic shifted and some were very similar to nowadays (Central Asian)Turkics. But all had significant steppe ancestry, Euro-admix of Anatolian Turks came mostly by Oghuz settlers(which doesnt mean they were euro-looking!).

[cass]

It depends on, but i wouldnt say that mix is accurate or true. Since Turkics were always a dynamic people, who never stayed in a specific area, they varied regarding some components for example some were ugric, some were iranic shifted and some were very similar to nowadays (Central Asian)Turkics. But all had significant steppe ancestry, Euro-admix of Anatolian Turks came mostly by Oghuz settlers(which doesnt mean they were euro-looking!).

Do you know Oghuz genetic composition from Turkic conquest period?

[Mejgusu]

Do you know Oghuz genetic composition from Turkic conquest period?

Honestly yet i didnt see any sample, but they probably were similar to Afghanistan/Turkmenistan(Iranian border is more Westasian shifted) Turkmens. The only thing what we surely can say is that average Anatolian Turks are around 25-35% early Turkic.

[cass]

Honestly yet i didnt see any sample, but they probably were similar to Afghanistan/Turkmenistan(Iranian border is more Westasian shifted) Turkmens. The only thing what we surely can say is that average Anatolian Turks are around 25-35% early Turkic.

Thx. So the following statement is not true.


The original Turkics (Huns) were fully Mongoloid.

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2012192235050080.jpg

I also thought about Afghanistan.

[mergen3]

Honestly yet i didnt see any sample, but they probably were similar to Afghanistan/Turkmenistan(Iranian border is more Westasian shifted) Turkmens. The only thing what we surely can say is that average Anatolian Turks are around 25-35% early Turkic.30-35% East Eurasian 20-22%North European 20-22 Gedrosian %15 caucasian %5 atlantic med 5% southwest asian
I guess like that. Because if we compare the Turks of the Central Anatolia with the Greeks of the Central Anatolia, this is the ratio.
As the ratio of the Central Anatolian Turks to Eastern Eurasia increases, it generally increases to the ratio of Northern Europe. There is a correlation between the two. but this is not valid for Western Anatolian Turks. I think the reason for this is that there are more Mainland Greeks in western Anatolia.

Redmi Note 7 cihazımdan Tapatalk kullanılarak gönderildi

[Mejgusu]

Thx. So the following statement is not true.



I also thought about Afghanistan.

No it is not true. People assume that (Proto)Turkics were fully east eurasian because they emerged somewhere in nowadays Mongolia, but then Mongolia didnt exist. But this is just what we can say about our current knowledge regarding Turkic history and genetics.

[Immanenz]

No it is not true. People assume that (Proto)Turkics were fully east eurasian because they emerged somewhere in nowadays Mongolia, but then Mongolia didnt exist. But this is just what we can say about our current knowledge regarding Turkic history and genetics.

Exactly. They were a mix early on even if the very early Proto- Turks might have their origin from Northeast China

[cass]

No it is not true. People assume that (Proto)Turkics were fully east eurasian because they emerged somewhere in nowadays Mongolia, but then Mongolia didnt exist. But this is just what we can say about our current knowledge regarding Turkic history and genetics.

Taking into account Gokturk were more Finnish like, would you exclude Afghani Kalash as contemporary counterpart of Oghuz from the time of conquest?

[Altaylı]

Thx. So the following statement is not true.



I also thought about Afghanistan.

Even we can find western eurasian haplogroups among early Xiongnu's
http://imgur.com/gallery/prxFgWW
Xiongnu's werent only mongoloid. Europo-mongoloid types were dominant in Xiongnu

[Mejgusu]

Taking into account Gokturk were more Finnish like, would you exclude Afghani Kalash as contemporary counterpart of Oghuz from the time of conquest?

I think you mean more Finnish shifted and Kalash shifted? Neither, Finns are too "European" and Kalash are already mixed. I meant with more ugric shifted they had more northeuropean and with iranic i meant they had more westasian/south-central asian admix.

[Dr_Maul]

on G25 Xiongnu is about 40% Mongoloid/Asian and 30% Steppic

[cass]

To make it more clear. What percentage of Gedorsian would you predict for Turks entering Europe?

https://www.reddit.com/r/TurkicHistory/comments/gdyndb/the_gedmatch_results_of_a_gokturk_78th_century_i/

[Mejgusu]

To make it more clear. What percentage of Gedorsian would you predict for Turks entering Europe?

https://www.reddit.com/r/TurkicHistory/comments/gdyndb/the_gedmatch_results_of_a_gokturk_78th_century_i/

Do you mean Ottomans or other Turkics? Generally between 10-20%.

[cass]

Do you mean Ottomans or other Turkics? Generally between 10-20%.

Seljuqs in 11th century

[Mejgusu]

Seljuqs in 11th century

10-20%

[cass]

10-20%
So not much.
And for European elements?

[Mejgusu]

So not much.
And for European elements?

20-30%

[cass]

20-30%

What happened between 8 and 11c. rising E Eurasian admix?

[Mejgusu]

What happened between 8 and 11c. rising E Eurasian admix?

I dont understand this question. East eurasian(30-50%) always existed among them.

[cass]

I dont understand this question. East eurasian(30-50%) always existed among them.

According to your estimations
ca 15% Gedorsian
ca 25% European
ca 40% EAsian/ Siberian

What was the rest?

[Proto-Shaman]

These guys are Turkified Kurds and Armenians. The original Turkics (Huns) were fully Mongoloid.

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2012192235050080.jpg
Seriously why do you hate Caucasoid Proto-Turks. What daily dose of pills to you take to lower your anti-Turkic retardedness? Did you already conduct a medical health kid? Do you need any help? I can help you. My frriänd...

[sevruk]

Seriously why do you hate Caucasoid Proto-Turks. What daily dose of pills to you take to lower your anti-Turkic retardedness? Did you already conduct a medical health kid? Do you need any help? I can help you. My frriänd...

Seriously why do you hate Mongoloid Proto-Turks. What daily dose of pills to you take to lower your anti-Mongoloid retardedness? Did you already conduct a medical health kid? Do you need any help? I can help you. My frriänd...

[princeton90]

They were something like 25% North European, 25% West Asian and East Med, 50% East Asian IMHO but not sure though.

[Altaylı]

here is facial reconstruction of a Turkic Khagan but I don't know how true is that
https://altynadamworld.com/en/exponaty/id/511

[Altaylı]

double post

[Kamal900]

These guys are Turkified Kurds and Armenians. The original Turkics (Huns) were fully Mongoloid.

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2012192235050080.jpg

:picard2:

The proto-Turks would have been mixed between the Indo-European tribes of Asia and the local neo-Mongoloids of East Asia since we do have genetic evidence of such admixtures between PIE men and local females in the region which they became more admixed as they began leaving their homelands to the west which they became more Caucasoid oriented while those went to the farther east began mixing and assimilating the locals hence why say the Kazakhs are more Mongoloid genetically than say the Turkic peoples of Crimea or Turkey since they mixed and assimilated the Mongols of Central Asia and whatnot. And no, Turkish people of Turkey are modelled as half local Anatolian half Turkmen/Uzbeki, and stop conflating ethno-linguistic terms like Turkic with race. It's such an outdated American/British mindset to have from the 1800's and early 1900's. Ironically, the people today that cluster the closest to the old Iranic tribes of Asia like the Scythians of Asia are the modern day Tatars, Bashkirs and etc as well as some Iranic peoples like the Pashtuns or Tajiks.

[Altaylı]

These guys are Turkified Kurds and Armenians. The original Turkics (Huns) were fully Mongoloid.

https://www.hostpic.org/images/2012192235050080.jpg

are u serious? you decided turks were mongoloids with by just looking at that key ring? :d

[Kamal900]

are u serious? you decided turks were mongoloids with just looking at that key ring? :d

He must think that the native Turkic peoples in the Russian far east are the "real" Turkic peoples or something which is beyond dumb. Turkic peoples had not only mixed and assimilated the native peoples of Central and West Asia but also with the locals of East Asia as well. Their history is extremely dynamic to say the least which is also true for groups like Arabs for example. I mean, despite myself in being an Arab, I look nothing like an Arabian whatsoever, and despite popular beliefs that Arabs originally came from Arabia, we now know that it's false:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHRbuu8c8nw&t=1925s

Here are some Scythian G25 results from the Urals and Zevakino-Chilikta region of Russia:

Distance to: Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA
0.04341559 Bashkir
0.04764879 Tatar_Siberian
0.07581902 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye
0.08711644 Nogai
0.09365923 Uzbek
0.10087071 Yukagir_Forest
0.10372093 Hazara_Afghanistan
0.10404151 Tubalar
0.10465838 Karakalpak
0.10562499 Uygur
0.10894272 Hazara
0.11454233 Udmurt
0.11508527 Tlingit
0.11512765 Tatar_Crimean_steppe
0.11764975 Shor_Mountain
0.11925547 Mansi
0.12035822 Tatar_Lipka
0.12193453 Shor_Khakassia
0.12210334 Besermyan
0.12227243 Shor
0.12330818 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
0.12601793 Saami
0.12828973 Khanty
0.12851388 Turkmen
0.13081854 Mari

Distance to: Scythian_RUS_Urals
0.05322550 Bashkir
0.07747167 Tatar_Siberian
0.08326110 Tatar_Crimean_steppe
0.08538744 Uzbek
0.08980191 Tatar_Lipka
0.09374974 Udmurt
0.09481453 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
0.09623955 Besermyan
0.09750068 Turkmen
0.10427644 Nogai
0.11096474 Hazara_Afghanistan
0.11207200 Tatar_Kazan
0.11270072 Saami
0.11604377 Uygur
0.11643041 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye
0.11983252 Chuvash
0.12113803 Hazara
0.12121036 Yukagir_Forest
0.12717731 Tlingit
0.12796770 Karakalpak
0.13131838 Mari
0.13407500 Tajik
0.13888627 Komi
0.14020363 Saami_Kola
0.14215618 Tubalar

Distance to: Scythian_Zevakino_Chilikta_IA
0.04804137 Bashkir
0.05933492 Uzbek
0.06077576 Tatar_Siberian
0.07615525 Nogai
0.07973288 Hazara_Afghanistan
0.08219590 Tatar_Crimean_steppe
0.08347611 Uygur
0.08489468 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
0.08967604 Hazara
0.09028372 Turkmen
0.09975721 Karakalpak
0.10044938 Tatar_Lipka
0.11004255 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye
0.11731312 Udmurt
0.11760126 Yukagir_Forest
0.11960519 Besermyan
0.12308535 Tubalar
0.12733403 Tlingit
0.13109686 Tatar_Kazan
0.13293791 Kazakh
0.13410566 Saami
0.13755764 Chuvash
0.14003288 Tajik
0.14038972 Shor_Mountain
0.14359557 Mari

The Scythians of Asia were similar to the Turkic peoples of today like Tatars and etc while the Scythians of Europe were no different from the local Europeans of today.

Distance to: Scythian_UKR
0.05091140 Moldovan_o
0.05300307 Mordovian
0.05860726 Hungarian
0.06063002 Russian_Kostroma
0.06076594 Moldovan
0.06233055 Czech
0.06234189 Cossack_Kuban
0.06253883 Russian_Kursk
0.06257895 Afrikaner
0.06269720 Croatian
0.06271694 Slovakian
0.06317859 Austrian
0.06319682 Ukrainian_B
0.06375268 Russian_Orel
0.06389734 Turkish_Deliorman
0.06483619 Russian_Tver
0.06491503 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.06497328 Tatar_Mishar
0.06497389 Slovenian
0.06503691 Ukrainian
0.06600894 Bosnian
0.06634084 German_East
0.06763264 Polish
0.06809864 Dutch
0.06818625 German

Distance to: Scythian_HUN
0.02589369 Austrian
0.02932214 French_Alsace
0.02958097 Montenegrin
0.03042547 Croatian
0.03093745 Serbian
0.03150500 Slovenian
0.03248661 Hungarian
0.03256459 French_Nord
0.03294116 Bosnian
0.03315187 Swiss_German
0.03372230 Romanian
0.03451878 Italian_Northeast
0.03454481 French_Auvergne
0.03530939 Moldovan
0.03625566 German
0.03638710 French_Occitanie
0.03758119 Belgian
0.03764073 Swiss_French
0.03796212 French_Paris
0.03797299 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03924610 French_Provence
0.04036315 French_Seine-Maritime
0.04183058 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04246652 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04306014 Afrikaner

The Scythians, like their Turkic counterparts, were a nomadic tribes that were very diverse genetically with those living in Asia are like the Turkic peoples in the region while those in Europe are like those in today's native inhabitants of Europe.

[Altaylı]

He must think that the native Turkic peoples in the Russian far east are the "real" Turkic peoples or something which is beyond dumb. Turkic peoples had not only mixed and assimilated the native peoples of Central and West Asia but also with the locals of East Asia as well. Their history is extremely dynamic to say the least which is also true for groups like Arabs for example. I mean, despite myself in being an Arab, I look nothing like an Arabian whatsoever, and despite popular beliefs that Arabs originally came from Arabia, we now know that it's false:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHRbuu8c8nw&t=1925s

Here are some Scythian G25 results from the Urals and Zevakino-Chilikta region of Russia:

Distance to: Scythian_Aldy_Bel_IA
0.04341559 Bashkir
0.04764879 Tatar_Siberian
0.07581902 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye
0.08711644 Nogai
0.09365923 Uzbek
0.10087071 Yukagir_Forest
0.10372093 Hazara_Afghanistan
0.10404151 Tubalar
0.10465838 Karakalpak
0.10562499 Uygur
0.10894272 Hazara
0.11454233 Udmurt
0.11508527 Tlingit
0.11512765 Tatar_Crimean_steppe
0.11764975 Shor_Mountain
0.11925547 Mansi
0.12035822 Tatar_Lipka
0.12193453 Shor_Khakassia
0.12210334 Besermyan
0.12227243 Shor
0.12330818 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
0.12601793 Saami
0.12828973 Khanty
0.12851388 Turkmen
0.13081854 Mari

Distance to: Scythian_RUS_Urals
0.05322550 Bashkir
0.07747167 Tatar_Siberian
0.08326110 Tatar_Crimean_steppe
0.08538744 Uzbek
0.08980191 Tatar_Lipka
0.09374974 Udmurt
0.09481453 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
0.09623955 Besermyan
0.09750068 Turkmen
0.10427644 Nogai
0.11096474 Hazara_Afghanistan
0.11207200 Tatar_Kazan
0.11270072 Saami
0.11604377 Uygur
0.11643041 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye
0.11983252 Chuvash
0.12113803 Hazara
0.12121036 Yukagir_Forest
0.12717731 Tlingit
0.12796770 Karakalpak
0.13131838 Mari
0.13407500 Tajik
0.13888627 Komi
0.14020363 Saami_Kola
0.14215618 Tubalar

Distance to: Scythian_Zevakino_Chilikta_IA
0.04804137 Bashkir
0.05933492 Uzbek
0.06077576 Tatar_Siberian
0.07615525 Nogai
0.07973288 Hazara_Afghanistan
0.08219590 Tatar_Crimean_steppe
0.08347611 Uygur
0.08489468 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
0.08967604 Hazara
0.09028372 Turkmen
0.09975721 Karakalpak
0.10044938 Tatar_Lipka
0.11004255 Tatar_Siberian_Zabolotniye
0.11731312 Udmurt
0.11760126 Yukagir_Forest
0.11960519 Besermyan
0.12308535 Tubalar
0.12733403 Tlingit
0.13109686 Tatar_Kazan
0.13293791 Kazakh
0.13410566 Saami
0.13755764 Chuvash
0.14003288 Tajik
0.14038972 Shor_Mountain
0.14359557 Mari

The Scythians of Asia were similar to the Turkic peoples of today like Tatars and etc while the Scythians of Europe were no different from the local Europeans of today.

Distance to: Scythian_UKR
0.05091140 Moldovan_o
0.05300307 Mordovian
0.05860726 Hungarian
0.06063002 Russian_Kostroma
0.06076594 Moldovan
0.06233055 Czech
0.06234189 Cossack_Kuban
0.06253883 Russian_Kursk
0.06257895 Afrikaner
0.06269720 Croatian
0.06271694 Slovakian
0.06317859 Austrian
0.06319682 Ukrainian_B
0.06375268 Russian_Orel
0.06389734 Turkish_Deliorman
0.06483619 Russian_Tver
0.06491503 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.06497328 Tatar_Mishar
0.06497389 Slovenian
0.06503691 Ukrainian
0.06600894 Bosnian
0.06634084 German_East
0.06763264 Polish
0.06809864 Dutch
0.06818625 German

Distance to: Scythian_HUN
0.02589369 Austrian
0.02932214 French_Alsace
0.02958097 Montenegrin
0.03042547 Croatian
0.03093745 Serbian
0.03150500 Slovenian
0.03248661 Hungarian
0.03256459 French_Nord
0.03294116 Bosnian
0.03315187 Swiss_German
0.03372230 Romanian
0.03451878 Italian_Northeast
0.03454481 French_Auvergne
0.03530939 Moldovan
0.03625566 German
0.03638710 French_Occitanie
0.03758119 Belgian
0.03764073 Swiss_French
0.03796212 French_Paris
0.03797299 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03924610 French_Provence
0.04036315 French_Seine-Maritime
0.04183058 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04246652 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.04306014 Afrikaner

The Scythians, like their Turkic counterparts, were a nomadic tribes that were very diverse genetically with those living in Asia are like the Turkic peoples in the region while those in Europe are like those in today's native inhabitants of Europe.

yes you are true:)

[Sora]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVMLsTTWkAsAukQ?format=jpg&name=small

As you see...

There are still many stupid people who think proto-Turkics were 100% Mongoloid!... :picard1:

[Altaylı]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EVMLsTTWkAsAukQ?format=jpg&name=small

As you see...

There are still many stupid people who think proto-Turkics were 100% Mongoloid!... :picard1:

I agree! :thumb001: We are in 2020 A.D but still some people think Turks were 100% mongoloid

[Proto-Shaman]

Seriously why do you hate Mongoloid Proto-Turks. What daily dose of pills to you take to lower your anti-Mongoloid retardedness? Did you already conduct a medical health kid? Do you need any help? I can help you. My frriänd...
Lol, why should I hate Mongoloid Proto-Turks (ANE), when Indo-Europeans stem from them (ANS). Your statement makes no sense, because you are a foolish EHG person. If you don't wantings Turan, Turan will comings to you. Wise decision you must take.

[Proto-Shaman]

I agree! :thumb001: We are in 2020 A.D but still some people think Turks were 100% mongoloid
One of them is sevruk, a hatefull Russian guy who thinks that just because I like Caucasoid Proto-Turks, I automatically dislike Mongoloid Proto-Turks. These people, who believe in genetic 100%ism are blind.

[Altaylı]

Lol, why should I hate Mongoloid Proto-Turks (ANE), when Indo-Europeans stem from them (ANS). Your statement makes no sense, because you are a foolish EHG person. If you don't wantings Turan, Turan will comings to you. Wise decision you must take.

Isn't ANE too old for being a Turk?

[Edgü]

One of them is sevruk, a hatefull Russian guy who thinks that just because I like Caucasoid Proto-Turks, I automatically dislike Mongoloid Proto-Turks. These people, who believe in genetic 100%ism are blind.

The guy named sevruk is an idiot


Cossacks are Turks in terms of culture lifestyle and some of their ancestry that is why they are the most "Steppic Europeans" they even got their name from Turks :picard2:

he thumbed me down because i said this :picard2:

[Ford]

They had chingchong eyes.

[Steppe Timelord]

They were something like 25% North European, 25% West Asian and East Med, 50% East Asian IMHO but not sure though.

No east med, since this component was nonexistent by the time proto-turks formed in east central asia or NE China. Proto-turkics were like PIE leftover(Andronovo or the more ancient "eastern yamna" offshoot) + mongoloid, in varying proportions. But west asian yes, since it was the common genetic component in central asia nevertheless if the natives carried it or the invading sintashta/andronovo peoples.

[Altaylı]

No east med, since this component was nonexistent by the time proto-turks formed in east central asia or NE China. Proto-turkics were like PIE leftover(Andronovo or the more ancient "eastern yamna" offshoot) + mongoloid, in varying proportions. But west asian yes, since it was the common genetic component in central asia nevertheless if the natives carried it or the invading sintashta/andronovo peoples.

SteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppeti melordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSt eppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetime lordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordStep petimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelo rdSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppe timelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelord SteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppeti melordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSt eppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetime lordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordStep petimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelo rdSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppe timelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelord SteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppeti melordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSt eppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetime lordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordStep petimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelo rdSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppe timelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelord SteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppeti melordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSt eppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetime lordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordStep petimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelo rdSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppe timelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelordSteppetimelord SteppetimelordSteppetimelord

[Hektor12]

They had chingchong eyes.

https://raisevegan.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/greta-thunberg-activist.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/05/Uyghur_girl_in_Turpan%2C_Xinjiang%2C_China_-_20050712.jpg

[Edgü]

....

[Austrvegr]

The proto-Turkics (Huns) were fully Mongoloid and had mostly Y-haplogroup Q1.

All non-Mongoloid "Turkics" are Turkified non-Turkics.

[Edgü]

The proto-Turkics (Huns) were fully Mongoloid and had mostly Y-haplogroup Q1.

All non-Mongoloid "Turkics" are Turkified non-Turkics.

Where is the evidence ?

[Altaylı]

The proto-Turkics (Huns) were fully Mongoloid and had mostly Y-haplogroup Q1.

All non-Mongoloid "Turkics" are Turkified non-Turkics.

Hmmm...
https://i.imgur.com/4TycMfi.jpg
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ1ykODRgDU0l45Y1VFVEVL83TUBzQqG mc4EQ&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRa-W2DpxidWazmsLzyFl5ZvdyIesiS9Wd5kw&usqp=CAU

[Altaylı]

They had chingchong eyes.

Serbians are proto Turkic

[Ford]

Serbians are proto Turkic

Ok boyo

[Proto-Shaman]

The guy named sevruk is an idiot
he thumbed me down because i said this :picard2:
Yes, it's from the Soviet post-traumatic experience and their hate toward everything related to non-Russian elements, i.e. Turkic peoples. And when you talk with them about slavized Cossack Turko-Tatars, they totally freak out and go rampage, like "WHAAAT DID YOU JUST SAID YOU TURKIC SCUM" etc. Psychologically speaking, they are sick of us.

[princeton90]

No east med, since this component was nonexistent by the time proto-turks formed in east central asia or NE China. Proto-turkics were like PIE leftover(Andronovo or the more ancient "eastern yamna" offshoot) + mongoloid, in varying proportions. But west asian yes, since it was the common genetic component in central asia nevertheless if the natives carried it or the invading sintashta/andronovo peoples.

I think East Med is just midway point of Southern European, West Asian, and Southwest Asian components.

[junming]

"proto-turk" does not make much sense as the ancient concepts of "turkness" didn't include anything racial or to do with any physical traits until the 19th century, when race started being a thing, it was just an ethnos, as in a group of people of various origins grouped together.

[PAGANE]

Reconstruction of the appearance of ancient people found in burial grounds on the territory of Kazakhstan. Plastic face reconstruction from the skull of a man / 20-25 years old / from the Karaoba burial ground / Kazakhstan /. End of the 1st millennium BC Excavations by Akan Ongarula, author Alexey Nechvaloda https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/136370486_2872358333048277_4484569469208044471_o.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=6k9pRVn-r94AX9f1guW&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=b126a99600918820f2ebc19f6758cb1e&oe=601DDB4E
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/136448574_2872358579714919_710324758988653927_o.jp g?_nc_cat=104&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=JBQEag8ESxIAX8-f7uG&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=cf5fc9ed3570c3727374eb0d13c77b0c&oe=601CE9AE

[Altaylı]

Reconstruction of the appearance of ancient people found in burial grounds on the territory of Kazakhstan. Plastic face reconstruction from the skull of a man / 20-25 years old / from the Karaoba burial ground / Kazakhstan /. End of the 1st millennium BC Excavations by Akan Ongarula, author Alexey Nechvaloda https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/136370486_2872358333048277_4484569469208044471_o.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=6k9pRVn-r94AX9f1guW&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=b126a99600918820f2ebc19f6758cb1e&oe=601DDB4E
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/136448574_2872358579714919_710324758988653927_o.jp g?_nc_cat=104&ccb=2&_nc_sid=825194&_nc_ohc=JBQEag8ESxIAX8-f7uG&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=cf5fc9ed3570c3727374eb0d13c77b0c&oe=601CE9AE

Nice post looks andronovo Turanid also looks more caucasoid than modern kazakhs

Can you post more?

[PAGANE]

[QUOTE = Altaylı; 7069597] Хубав пост изглежда andronovo Turanid също изглежда по-кавказоидно от съвременните казахи

Можете ли да публикувате повече? [/ QUOTE]

if I come across something else I will post

[PAGANE]

woman from mound 16 of the Berel kurgan necropolis (Kazakh Altai). Pazyryk culture of the 5th-4th centuries BC e. Type Mongoloid
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/121112347_218923289573714_1008326768033771064_o.jp g?_nc_cat=107&ccb=2&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=yNqmVZUXBEoAX9ycHxM&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=f5560d5c425064d5ce5e48a7bdaa09a0&oe=601DF8A1

The age of iron.
Reconstruction on the woman's skull. Late Sarmatians, 3rd century AD
Burial ground Solyony Dol, Chelyabinsk region.
Excavations: I.E. Lyubchansky.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/120962264_218925129573530_1035889919285270940_n.jp g?_nc_cat=105&ccb=2&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=1RksL5oB43gAX8bhLO8&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=c679dc1263443ae5b9043c6d188aac21&oe=601C43E4

Briefly about the disappearance of white Caucasians in Kazakhstan
How the Mongoloid component among the population of Kazakhstan increased as the Mongoloids expanded to Central Asia.
From the Neolithic with a white Scythian population, to the Turkic racial-mixed Middle Ages, and the dominance of Mongoloidism to modernity.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/121219827_218925299573513_8172403180884114357_o.jp g?_nc_cat=111&ccb=2&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=hcvPxL01Y2gAX_KEerp&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=e39b52450e521b30ac5c34a0ebcbcf00&oe=601F84FE

[Altaylı]

if I come across something else I will post

Thanks. :)

[PAGANE]

Burial ground Baitalchi


In 1953-1955. The Tien Shan detachment of the Kyrgyz complex expedition under the leadership of A.K. Kibirov carried out excavations of the burial mound groups of the Baitalchi burial ground, which is located in the vicinity of the village. Dzhalgyzterek. The burial ground dates back to the first half of the 1st millennium AD.
When characterizing this series, it should be noted, first of all, that the skulls were artificially deformed. Pressing bandages applied to one and the same head belt served as deformation tools for annular deformation. The application of a ring bandage causes a depression in the places of pressure and a spherical compensatory protrusion of the vault above them, as a result of which the skull takes a conical shape.
The anthropological characteristics of the series show that in the territory of Kyrgyzstan in the first half of the 1st millennium AD. e. the Caucasian racial type was widespread with a small admixture of Mongoloid elements.
A series of skulls of the Kenkol time from the territory of the central Tien Shan are skulls of various racial types - both typically Caucasoid and mixed, and slightly Mongoloid, and the main Caucasoid type belongs to the race of the Central Asian interfluve - the Andronovo type (Nordocromanoid).
As a result, the study of paleoanthropological material by N.N. Miklashevskaya confirmed the conclusion of V.V. Ginzburg and E.V. Zhirov on the process of penetration of the Mongoloid racial type, the carriers of which on the territory of Kyrgyzstan in the first half of the 1st millennium were the Huns. Anthropological data are fully consistent with historical sources.
At the turn of our era, the Hun tribes appear in the mountain pastures of the Tien Shan. In the process of resettlement, they mixed with the local population. On the way from the main formation area, from Transbaikalia, where the ancient population was Mongoloid, the Huns included tribes with a Caucasian racial type in their composition. On the territory of the Tien Shan, the Huns continued to mix with the ancient local white Caucasoid population, which ultimately led to the complete disappearance of Caucasians in this territory.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/121114102_218934302905946_2621630475295113165_n.jp g?_nc_cat=108&cb=846ca55b-311e05c7&ccb=2&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=5qcgAmkDjNwAX_lGSxs&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=bef5152489e26d35abde9852e6c600ea&oe=601C9A0B

[Altaylı]

Burial ground Baitalchi


In 1953-1955. The Tien Shan detachment of the Kyrgyz complex expedition under the leadership of A.K. Kibirov carried out excavations of the burial mound groups of the Baitalchi burial ground, which is located in the vicinity of the village. Dzhalgyzterek. The burial ground dates back to the first half of the 1st millennium AD.
When characterizing this series, it should be noted, first of all, that the skulls were artificially deformed. Pressing bandages applied to one and the same head belt served as deformation tools for annular deformation. The application of a ring bandage causes a depression in the places of pressure and a spherical compensatory protrusion of the vault above them, as a result of which the skull takes a conical shape.
The anthropological characteristics of the series show that in the territory of Kyrgyzstan in the first half of the 1st millennium AD. e. the Caucasian racial type was widespread with a small admixture of Mongoloid elements.
A series of skulls of the Kenkol time from the territory of the central Tien Shan are skulls of various racial types - both typically Caucasoid and mixed, and slightly Mongoloid, and the main Caucasoid type belongs to the race of the Central Asian interfluve - the Andronovo type (Nordocromanoid).
As a result, the study of paleoanthropological material by N.N. Miklashevskaya confirmed the conclusion of V.V. Ginzburg and E.V. Zhirov on the process of penetration of the Mongoloid racial type, the carriers of which on the territory of Kyrgyzstan in the first half of the 1st millennium were the Huns. Anthropological data are fully consistent with historical sources.
At the turn of our era, the Hun tribes appear in the mountain pastures of the Tien Shan. In the process of resettlement, they mixed with the local population. On the way from the main formation area, from Transbaikalia, where the ancient population was Mongoloid, the Huns included tribes with a Caucasian racial type in their composition. On the territory of the Tien Shan, the Huns continued to mix with the ancient local white Caucasoid population, which ultimately led to the complete disappearance of Caucasians in this territory.
https://scontent-sof1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/121114102_218934302905946_2621630475295113165_n.jp g?_nc_cat=108&cb=846ca55b-311e05c7&ccb=2&_nc_sid=0debeb&_nc_ohc=5qcgAmkDjNwAX_lGSxs&_nc_ht=scontent-sof1-1.xx&oh=bef5152489e26d35abde9852e6c600ea&oe=601C9A0B

Weren't Huns already caucasoid-mongoloid? How can they disappearance Tian Shan locals?

weren't Tian Shan locals already caucasoid-mongoloid in that era?

[PAGANE]

[QUOTE = Altaylı; 7069651] Хуни не бяха ли вече кавказоидно-монголоидни? Как могат да изчезнат местните жители на Тиан Шан?

нали местните жители на Тиан Шан вече бяха кавказоидно-монголоидни в онази епоха? [/ QUOTE]

I can't answer your question, I'm not an archaeologist or anthropologist. Even professionals do not agree, so we have different theories about the origin of these ancient peoples, their movement, mixing. And modern science does not have so many models to draw unambiguous conclusions. The more we work in this direction, the more archeology we have, the more research is done, the closer we will come to some general theory.

[Grand Admiral Thrawn]

How about Uyghurs? Many of them don't look particularly mongoloid.

https://i.ibb.co/3C2pGYJ/44.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/sqGZxRM/Mihrigul-Tursun-Uyghur-She-was-detained-in-China-Photographed-at-the-National-Press-Club-Washington.jpg (https://ibb.co/PgndXjf)
https://i.ibb.co/Cb7wJXB/46.jpg (https://ibb.co/QPNJ8q9)
https://i.ibb.co/s3qfDBz/uyg.jpg (https://ibb.co/JkH1bhg)

Yes because they're Turkic people. Caucasoids and Mongoloids mixed into one

[Chelubey]

***

[PAGANE]

The lifetime appearance of one of the founders of the Kazakh state, Khan Zhanibek, has been recreated.
A project to study the mausoleum of Zhanibek Khan, located in the Korgaldzhinsky district of the Akmola region, has been completed.
“Based on the skull found in the mausoleum, the Russian anthropologist Alexei Nechvoloda recreated the lifetime appearance of Khan Zhanibek,” says Kuanysh Shakshakov, director of the Akmola Regional Museum of History and Local Lore, who supervised archaeological work on the territory of the mausoleum. - The official results of anthropological reconstruction and other research from a number of laboratories were received by us just a few days ago.
According to him, an important block of information was obtained as a result of radiocarbon dating of the remains of those buried in the Chrono-14 laboratory in Belfast (UK). So four burials date back to the XIV century, and two - to the XIX century.
The genetic samples from the burial are examined in the laboratory of the city of Uppsala (Sweden). The mtDNA and Y chromosome sequence datasets were analyzed in comparison with modern human populations in Kazakhstan and other regions of the world.
Paleogenetic analysis of archaeological samples is ongoing in Sweden, with final results due in a few months. They will help identify maternal lines (that is, mtDNA haplogroups) and paternal lines (Y-chromosome haplogroups). And now, according to preliminary data, the remains of the khan found in the mausoleum confirm his connection with the Chingizids.
Thus, further research can open new pages in the history of medieval Kazakhstan
https://kazpravda.kz/images/w715/uploads/publication2/208/33/208339-preview-image.jpg