Ancestry and 23andme Are Lying About Southern European Admixture

[ArdenTiberius]

Southern European countries are a balance between an individualist and collectivist culture. They are trying to make Italians think they are similar to Middle Eastern people so they mix with them, both groups are Caucasoid but North African Caucasoids have 10-20% Negroid admixture depending on the person, excluding South Morocco and South Egypt that has more Negroid admixture.


Southern Europeans have more Neolithic admixture than North Europeans do, that is why some can pass for a common looking middle eastern person. Another reason is climate and tanning.

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/FrightenedUnluckyHippopotamus-small.gif

23andme goes back 500-800 years.

Ancestry DNA goes back 1000-1500 years.

http://italianthro.altervista.org/ The lineages are all under 10%. Autosomal DNA looks at all of your admixture, Sicilians have 3.8% Moorish DNA (Moors are non-European Caucasoids anyway) and 0.1-1.2% Negroid admixture (vast majority of that admixture coming from women).

Having significant Non-Caucasoid Y-DNA lineages correlates with Non-Caucasoid admixture, that is why Finns have more.

http://racialreality.blogspot.com/2013/12/global-admixture-analysis-at-k6.html

Comments on here correct South Asian admixture.

[JamesBond007]

All commercial DNA tests are trash. I've done countless numbers of them even ones I can't remember. Not all non-commercial analysis is equal, either.


This is what MyTrueAncestry has to say about them :


Answer :
Unlike other companies which try to cater to target audiences pre-conceptions about their identity, MyTrueAncestry focuses in accurately determing one's closest match based on tens of thousands of data samples.

I have an 'Irish name' or hiberno-norman name so AncestryDNA told me I'm mostly Irish with some northern English/Scottish. I swear they did that because they thought that is what I was 'expecting' or based on what they thought my preconcieved notion was.

This is reality :

http://genetics.cs.ucla.edu/spa/

https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/Europe.htm


^Both put me in Southern England and MyTrueAncestry and Eurogenes K15 put me in SouthWestern Britain. XenophobicPrussian ,one of the few honest individuals here, placed me phenotypically around Cornwall/Devonshire and even said Wales but he is human slightly biased so I take 'Wales' with a grain of salt.

Anyway, let us be real here if it were not for a few honest smart individuals AND the fact that correct inferring of ancestry is useful in accurately predicting predilection towards possible inherited diseases the politically correct barbarians would have us not know our true Ancestry/origins.

[ArdenTiberius]

All commercial DNA tests are trash. I've done countless numbers of them even ones I can't remember. Not all non-commercial analysis is equal, either.


This is what MyTrueAncestry has to say about them :


Answer :
Unlike other companies which try to cater to target audiences pre-conceptions about their identity, MyTrueAncestry focuses in accurately determing one's closest match based on tens of thousands of data samples.

I have an 'Irish name' or hiberno-norman name so AncestryDNA told me I'm mostly Irish with some northern English/Scottish. I swear they did that because they thought that is what I was 'expecting' or based on what they thought my preconcieved notion was.

This is reality :

http://genetics.cs.ucla.edu/spa/

https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/Europe.htm


^Both put me in Southern England and MyTrueAncestry and Eurogenes K15 put me in SouthWestern Britain. XenophobicPrussian ,one of the few honest individuals here, placed me phenotypically around Cornwall/Devonshire and even said Wales but he is human slightly biased so I take 'Wales' with a grain of salt.

Anyway, let us be real here if it were not for a few honest smart individuals AND the fact that correct inferring of ancestry is useful in accurately predicting predilection towards possible inherited diseases the politically correct barbarians would have us not know our true Ancestry/origins.


They are still useful for getting your Raw DNA data so you can use it on GEDmatch.

[Pine]

How do you say cope in Italian?

[Jased]

They are still useful for getting your Raw DNA data so you can use it on GEDmatch.

I wouldn't say Gedmatch Is 100% useful the site hasn't been In maintenance/updated In 10 years or so also many calculators have certain errors. But still not bad for being "Free "

[ArdenTiberius]

How do you say cope in Italian?

It isn't a "cope" , it is fact that Ancestry DNA analyzes your admixture from around 1000-1700 years ago. All Y-DNA and MTDNA studies have shown that Italians have under 10% Y-DNA and MTDNA lineages from Non-European Caucasoids and Negroids, most of the Negroid lineages come from women to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_admixture_in_Europe#Y-DNA





https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JfwVAzxvlhk/Xb1Z-5kpJQI/AAAAAAAAA8c/CLCq6aTEBRkPdjIB6lw30XZyklUhbRQYQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Admixture_291,184_SNPs.png


Admixture analysis shows Italians are a mostly pure people as are all Europeans.

I'm not counting Neolithic lineages or Neolithic admixture here since all Europeans have significant admixture from them and they were a Caucasoid people originally from the Middle East who spread into Europe from Anatolia.

[Luso]

These dna tests go max around 5 centuries back my man.

[Beers]

I wouldn't say Gedmatch Is 100% useful the site hasn't been In maintenance/updated In 10 years or so also many calculators have certain errors. But still not bad for being "Free "
GedMatch is largely garbage for Italians, K15 has no populations between Abruzzo and Tuscany.
Got to go to admixture studio for their Eurogenes K15 Extended populations to get that.
Look at the different results from the 2:

My K15 original from Gedmatch:


Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Italian_Abruzzo @ 7.789
2 100% Ashkenazi @ 8.836
3 100% East_Sicilian @ 9.318
4 100% Greek_Thessaly @ 9.459
5 100% West_Sicilian @ 9.522
6 100% Central_Greek @ 9.558
7 100% Tuscan @ 10.257
8 100% South_Italian @ 12.102
9 100% Greek @ 12.306
10 100% Italian_Jewish @ 14.044

K15 Extended populations:

Using 1 populations approximation
1 100% Italy_Marche @ 7.793
2 100% Albanian-South @ 7.963
3 100% Italy_Abruzzo @ 8.193
4 100% Italy_Lazio @ 8.347
5 100% Ashkenazi @ 8.836
6 100% East_Sicilian @ 9.318
7 100% Greek_Thessaly @ 9.459
8 100% West_Sicilian @ 9.522
9 100% Central_Greek @ 9.558
10 100% Albanian-North @ 9.673

[Pine]

It isn't a "cope" , it is fact that Ancestry DNA analyzes your admixture from around 1000-1700 years ago. All Y-DNA and MTDNA studies have shown that Italians have under 10% Y-DNA and MTDNA lineages from Non-European Caucasoids and Negroids, most of the Negroid lineages come from women to.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_admixture_in_Europe#Y-DNA





[IMG]https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-JfwVAzxvlhk/Xb1Z-5kpJQI/AAAAAAAAA8c/CLCq6aTEBRkPdjIB6lw30XZyklUhbRQYQCLcBGAsYHQ/s1600/Admixture_291,184_SNPs.png[/MG]


Admixture analysis shows Italians are a mostly pure people as are all Europeans.

I'm not counting Neolithic lineages or Neolithic admixture here since all Europeans have significant admixture from them and they were a Caucasoid people originally from the Middle East who spread into Europe from Anatolia.

At least half of the Sicilian Y is post-Neolithic MENA.

[Beers]

At least half of the Sicilian Y is post-Neolithic MENA.
Sicily has large regional differences, North West Sicily, for instance, has a higher Atlantic component that pushes them up to Abruzzo, which is located geographically in central mainland Italy.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Abruzzo_in_Italy.svg/800px-Abruzzo_in_Italy.svg.png

[Pine]

Sicily has large regional differences, North West Sicily, for instance, has a higher Atlantic component that pushes them up to Abruzzo, which is located geographically in central mainland Italy.
[img]https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Abruzzo_in_Italy.svg/800px-Abruzzo_in_Italy.svg.png[/ig]

Irrelevant even if true

[ArdenTiberius]

At least half of the Sicilian Y is post-Neolithic MENA.

No it isn't. I haven't looked into J or G lineages but a Jewish guy told me the J1 and J2 post Neolithic MENA lineages are low, he was an expert in J1. Italy itself doesn't have many J1 lineages, mostly J2 but some J1 lineages are more common among Europeans.

[Pine]

No it isn't. I haven't looked into J or G lineages but a Jewish guy told me the J1 and J2 post Neolithic MENA lineages are low, he was an expert in J1. Italy itself doesn't have many J1 lineages, mostly J2 but some J1 lineages are more common among Europeans.

An Italian guy told me your Jewish guy is wrong.

[PaleoEuropean]

Similar doesn't mean the same though. Admixture calculation is still novel.

[Beers]

Similar doesn't mean the same though. Admixture calculation is still novel.
An East Sicilian is similar to a West Sicilian, but both groups are distinct enough to be separated on an autosomal genetic level.
If you think Greco-Romans are all one homogeneous group and all the same; apparently you know zilch about them in context to population genetics...

Add in Jewish history to this debate, not just population genetics.
The earliest communities of Jews were in Greco-Roman Europe and in this era proselytization and conversion were encouraged and widespread.
In population genetics are there many groups that are 11 million strong are genetically unrelated that just happen to mimic another population genetically?
11 million Ashkenazim just happen to closely mimic Greco-Romans and totally diverge from the Levant?
Do you think this graph below suggests the strong likelihood that Ashkenazim are NOT Middle Eastern but a Greco-Roman ethnic group on an autosomal level?
Explain how this happened, exactly?
https://i.ibb.co/HDKvBbh/Central-Greek-Ashkenazi.png
So basically the thesis is despite history and population genetics the fact that Ashkenazim appear as a Greco-Roman ethnic group on an autosomal level is just some strange coincidence?

But posters on here can make a claim of being "Judean" with ZERO scientific evidence to support their case?
If Ashkenazi Jews are "Judeans," meaning GENETICALLY descended from the tribe of Judea, then I just made a case that Central Greeks are also "Judeans," or somehow strangely heavily mimic the Judeans on an autosomal genetic level....

[PaleoEuropean]

An East Sicilian is similar to a West Sicilian, but both groups are distinct enough to be separated on an autosomal genetic level.
If you think Greco-Romans are all one homogeneous group and all the same; apparently you know zilch about them in context to population genetics...

Add in Jewish history to this debate, not just population genetics.
The earliest communities of Jews were in Greco-Roman Europe and in this era proselytization and conversion were encouraged and widespread.
In population genetics are there many groups that are 11 million strong are genetically unrelated that just happen to mimic another population genetically?
11 million Ashkenazim just happen to closely mimic Greco-Romans and totally diverge from the Levant?
Do you think this graph below suggests the strong likelihood that Ashkenazim are NOT Middle Eastern but a Greco-Roman ethnic group on an autosomal level?
Explain how this happened, exactly?
[imgg[/img]
So basically the thesis is despite history and population genetics the fact that Ashkenazim appear as a Greco-Roman ethnic group on an autosomal level is just some strange coincidence?

But posters on here can make a claim of being "Judean" with ZERO scientific evidence to support their case?
If Ashkenazi Jews are "Judeans," meaning GENETICALLY descended from the tribe of Judea, then I just made a case that Central Greeks are also "Judeans," or somehow strangely heavily mimic the Judeans on an autosomal genetic level....

Jews have been mixing with Romans and Greeks for thousands of years though of course they are going to be similiar, especially to Greeks who they were more friendly with than the Romans in the Middle East, Europe is a whole other story. I don't think anyone who has insight into the origins of various peoples would ever seriously say Jews, Arabs and Meds are all 100% the same. But they are mixed with eachother via Phoenicians, prehistory etc. even if it's minimal. I don't see why people are ashamed of the comparison as the middle east is the cradle of civilization and the Romans and Greeks spread the idea of urbanization to the west.

[Chris596]

Okay so more than 75% or 3/4 of my ancestry is a lie xD

[Beers]

Jews have been mixing with Romans and Greeks for thousands of years though of course they are going to be similiar, especially to Greeks who they were more friendly with than the Romans in the Middle East, Europe is a whole other story. I don't think anyone who has insight into the origins of various peoples would ever seriously say Jews, Arabs and Meds are all 100% the same. But they are mixed with eachother via Phoenicians, prehistory etc. even if it's minimal. I don't see why people are ashamed of the comparison as the middle east is the cradle of civilization and the Romans and Greeks spread the idea of urbanization to the west.

I go where science and history takes me.
I resent people hijacking population genetics and injecting their personal political ideology.
Calling oneself a "Judean" for example is part of a political platform called "Zionism," and it's an attempt to cast Ashkenazim as "Judeans" and the indigenous people GENETICALLY to the lands of Israel.
This argument is beyond flimsily, and I can't stomach this kind of dishonest and smarmy rational to justify their homeland in the Levant.
Building your ethnic identity/right of return on a foundation of lies will not end well for them.

Secondly, I have ZERO issues with people HONESTLY and without political motivations genetically comparing Ashkenazim to the Middle East, my gripe is there is a massive double standard GENETICALLY with the Southern Euros that Ashkenazim heavily resemble.
For instance in the White Nationalist communities like Stormfront, they say Sicilians and South Italians are "white" and "of wholly European ancestry," genetically.
Conversely they endlessly opine on genetics of Ashkenazim and paint them as genetically like Middle Eastern Arabs.
Nearly all people opining on the Middle Eastern admix of Ashkenazim are either racialists, Zionists, Muslim Nationalists, others stand on the sidelines and chime in and have some feelings for both sides.

[Beers]

Okay so more than 75% or 3/4 of my ancestry is a lie xD
How so?
Do you claim to be a Judean?
If so make a genetic case for it.

[PaleoEuropean]

I go where science and history takes me.
I resent people hijacking population genetics and injecting their personal political ideology.
Calling oneself a "Judean" for example is part of a political platform called "Zionism," and it's an attempt to cast Ashkenazim as "Judeans" and the indigenous people GENETICALLY to the lands of Israel.
This argument is beyond flimsily, and I can't stomach this kind of dishonest and smarmy rational to justify their homeland in the Levant.
Building your ethnic identity/right of return on a foundation of lies will not end well for them.

Secondly, I have ZERO issues with people HONESTLY and without political motivations genetically comparing Ashkenazim to the Middle East, my gripe is there is a massive double standard GENETICALLY with the Southern Euros that Ashkenazim heavily resemble.
For instance in the White Nationalist communities like Stormfront, they say Sicilians and South Italians are "white" and "of wholly European ancestry," genetically.
Conversely they endlessly opine on genetics of Ashkenazim and paint them as genetically like Middle Eastern Arabs.
Nearly all people opining on the Middle Eastern admix of Ashkenazim are either racialists, Zionists, Muslim Nationalists, others stand on the sidelines and chime in and have some feelings for both sides.


But for context who are we talking about claiming to be a Jew (not all Jews are Judean). I don't see how claiming to be an ethnicity is directly political, lots of people make stupid claims, some are trolling, some are wishful thinking etc. Lots of reasons why people do stuff.

[Chris596]

How so?
Do you claim to be a Judean?
If so make a genetic case for it.

???

This is my 23andme result and yes I have distant Jewish ancestry: 75.6% Greek & Balkan, 19.0% Eastern European, 3.8% Ashkenazi Jewish, 1.5% Broadly European, 0.1% Somali

[Beers]

But for context who are we talking about claiming to be a Jew (not all Jews are Judean). I don't see how claiming to be an ethnicity is directly political, lots of people make stupid claims, some are trolling, some are wishful thinking etc. Lots of reasons why people do stuff.

No, I was clearly talking about Ashkenazim, not about about other Jewish ethnic divisions.
The political ideology I discussed Zionism was born from Ashkenazi Jewry, as well.

Lots of reasons why people do stuff.
Palestinians might take this subject a bit more seriously, since the "Judeans" have used this ancestral title to justify their land-grab based on their alleged genetic pedigree that they claim is directly from the ancestral line of Judah.

If you want to talk about other Jewish ethnic groups and their supposed close genetic ties to Ashkenazim let us start here:
https://i.ibb.co/VHh4HPC/20201223063049-hd.png
Are Ashkenazim more closely related to say an East Sicilian non Jew than they're to their alleged genetic Jewish brethren in Yemen?

[Beers]

???

This is my 23andme result and yes I have distant Jewish ancestry: 75.6% Greek & Balkan, 19.0% Eastern European, 3.8% Ashkenazi Jewish, 1.5% Broadly European, 0.1% Somali

Do you claim to be a Judean?
If so make a genetic case for it.

You didn't answer the question.
Do you claim to be a JUDEAN and from the ancestral line of the Tribe of Judah?
If so make your genetic case for it.

[Pine]

No, I was clearly talking about Ashkenazim, not about about other Jewish ethnic divisions.
The political ideology I discussed Zionism was born from Ashkenazi Jewry, as well.

Palestinians might take this subject a bit more seriously, since the "Judeans" have used this ancestral title to justify their land-grab based on their alleged genetic pedigree that they claim is directly from the ancestral line of Judah.

If you want to talk about other Jewish ethnic groups and their supposed close genetic ties to Ashkenazim let us start here:
https://i.ibb.co/VHh4HPC/20201223063049-hd.png
Are Ashkenazim more closely related to say an East Sicilian non Jew than they're to their alleged genetic Jewish brethren in Yemen?

Why pick Yemenite Jews? They're mostly local converts .Any PCA with genetic drift shows Ashkenazim being part of and closest to other Western Jewish groups.

https://i.imgur.com/c4PNuC2.png

[ArdenTiberius]

An Italian guy told me your Jewish guy is wrong.

You are just trying to troll now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilians#MtDna_and_Y_DNA_studies

Only 1% of those J1's actually come from the Phoneticians

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-S21237/ This is the J lineage associated with Arabs, it is rare outside the middle east.

Even if you assume 3% of the J2's come from Middle Eastern colonizers, Sicilians and Calabrians still get 10-25% MENA on Ancestry DNA yet actual MENA lineages in Sicily is under 10%.

R1b Eurpoean lineages have also been found in North Africa but it isn't much, European men are generally more likely to pump and dump a MENA girl, not marry/breed one.

[Pine]

You are just trying to troll now.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sicilians#MtDna_and_Y_DNA_studies

Only 1% of those J1's actually come from the Phoneticians

https://www.yfull.com/tree/J-S21237/ This is the J lineage associated with Arabs, it is rare outside the middle east.

Even if you assume 3% of the J2's come from Middle Eastern colonizers, Sicilians and Calabrians still get 10-25% MENA on Ancestry DNA yet actual MENA lineages in Sicily is under 10%.

R1b Eurpoean lineages have also been found in North Africa but it isn't much, European men are generally more likely to pump and dump a MENA girl, not marry/breed one.

Nothing in that wiki link supports you.

[MINARDOWICZ]

How do you say cope in Italian?Italicroots

Sent from my moto g stylus using Tapatalk

[MINARDOWICZ]

I go where science and history takes me.
I resent people hijacking population genetics and injecting their personal political ideology.
Calling oneself a "Judean" for example is part of a political platform called "Zionism," and it's an attempt to cast Ashkenazim as "Judeans" and the indigenous people GENETICALLY to the lands of Israel.
This argument is beyond flimsily, and I can't stomach this kind of dishonest and smarmy rational to justify their homeland in the Levant.
Building your ethnic identity/right of return on a foundation of lies will not end well for them.

Secondly, I have ZERO issues with people HONESTLY and without political motivations genetically comparing Ashkenazim to the Middle East, my gripe is there is a massive double standard GENETICALLY with the Southern Euros that Ashkenazim heavily resemble.
For instance in the White Nationalist communities like Stormfront, they say Sicilians and South Italians are "white" and "of wholly European ancestry," genetically.
Conversely they endlessly opine on genetics of Ashkenazim and paint them as genetically like Middle Eastern Arabs.
Nearly all people opining on the Middle Eastern admix of Ashkenazim are either racialists, Zionists, Muslim Nationalists, others stand on the sidelines and chime in and have some feelings for both sides.
I've studied many Levantine and Jewish groups. S Italians and Ashkenazi Jews both have significant MENA DNA. We all need to acknowledge this. It's obvious. To say Ashkenazim aren't real MENA is stupid. I've seen the Peqin cave samples. They are not far off from Sephardim and have some "European" qualities that are ancient. However, Ashkenazim are directly north of the northernmost shifted Sephardim and Italkim. Ashkenazim, Italkim, and various Sephardim/Mizrahim form a very neat genetic cline.

Sent from my moto g stylus using Tapatalk

[SUPREEEEEME]

An East Sicilian is similar to a West Sicilian, but both groups are distinct enough to be separated on an autosomal genetic level.
If you think Greco-Romans are all one homogeneous group and all the same; apparently you know zilch about them in context to population genetics...

Add in Jewish history to this debate, not just population genetics.
The earliest communities of Jews were in Greco-Roman Europe and in this era proselytization and conversion were encouraged and widespread.
In population genetics are there many groups that are 11 million strong are genetically unrelated that just happen to mimic another population genetically?
11 million Ashkenazim just happen to closely mimic Greco-Romans and totally diverge from the Levant?
Do you think this graph below suggests the strong likelihood that Ashkenazim are NOT Middle Eastern but a Greco-Roman ethnic group on an autosomal level?
Explain how this happened, exactly?
https://i.ibb.co/HDKvBbh/Central-Greek-Ashkenazi.png
So basically the thesis is despite history and population genetics the fact that Ashkenazim appear as a Greco-Roman ethnic group on an autosomal level is just some strange coincidence?

But posters on here can make a claim of being "Judean" with ZERO scientific evidence to support their case?
If Ashkenazi Jews are "Judeans," meaning GENETICALLY descended from the tribe of Judea, then I just made a case that Central Greeks are also "Judeans," or somehow strangely heavily mimic the Judeans on an autosomal genetic level....

lul

[Kamal900]

lul

Welcome to the racial insecurities of Southern Europeans.

[Smeagol]

lul

He's right that Ashkenazi Jews are far from being pure ancient Hebrews.

[SUPREEEEEME]

He's right that Ashkenazi Jews are far from being pure ancient Hebrews.

Never said we were. His stance is that Ashkenazim are purely converted Greek Islanders/Southern Italians/Greek Mainlanders, which is simply false and very amusing.

[ArdenTiberius]

At least half of the Sicilian Y is post-Neolithic MENA.

No it isn't, you are making things up. Opinions with no evidence means nothing.

[grabielx]

I get 0% middle eastern on 23andme and obviously that's not the case, If anything 23andme and especially the last update are on the conservative side estimating ME admixture. Why you guys can't follow the science behind ancient admixture, have you seen the paper about Rome? Do you understand what CHG, Iran Neolithic, EFF, EHG, WHG mean? Caucasian means nothing, EEF and WHG were as different as Europeans and Japanese. There is no caucasian race.

[ArdenTiberius]

I get 0% middle eastern on 23andme and obviously that's not the case, If anything 23andme and especially the last update are on the conservative side estimating ME admixture. Why you guys can't follow the science behind ancient admixture, have you seen the paper about Rome? Do you understand what CHG, Iran Neolithic, EFF, EHG, WHG mean? Caucasian means nothing, EEF and WHG were as different as Europeans and Japanese. There is no caucasian race.

There is a Caucasoid race and it is genetically proven. Comments correct South Asian DNA.

http://racialreality.blogspot.com/2013/12/global-admixture-analysis-at-k6.html

The point is, for years I have seen results that have said Southern Europeans, specifically Sicialians and other South Italians, Spaniards have 10-20% MENA admixture depending on the person. They are obviously lying, if you count all the Post Neolithic Y-DNA lineages from Phoenicians,Jews,Arabs and Berbers, it will total to being under 10% of the population. MTDNA lineages post Neolithic would be even lower.

This is only counting Y-DNA lineages so on an autosomal DNA level which counts everything, it would be even less so the average Sicilian (who would have the most MENA and Negroid) would only have 1-2% MENA admixture and 0.1-1% Negroid admixture depending on the person.

Ancestry DNA does go back around 1000 years and 23andme 500-700 years yet they are highly overstating the amount of MENA admixture, within that time period there would be no where near that much MENA admixture for Sicilians/Spanairds, all Y-DNA and MTDNA studies over the years have proven this.

[grabielx]

There is a Caucasoid race and it is genetically proven. Comments correct South Asian DNA.

http://racialreality.blogspot.com/2013/12/global-admixture-analysis-at-k6.html

The point is, for years I have seen results that have said Southern Europeans, specifically Sicialians and other South Italians, Spaniards have 10-20% MENA admixture depending on the person. They are obviously lying, if you count all the Post Neolithic Y-DNA lineages from Phoenicians,Jews,Arabs and Berbers, it will total to being under 10% of the population. MTDNA lineages post Neolithic would be even lower.

This is only counting Y-DNA lineages so on an autosomal DNA level which counts everything, it would be even less so the average Sicilian (who would have the most MENA and Negroid) would only have 1-2% MENA admixture and 0.1-1% Negroid admixture depending on the person.

Ancestry DNA does go back around 1000 years and 23andme 500-700 years yet they are highly overstating the amount of MENA admixture, within that time period there would be no where near that much MENA admixture for Sicilians/Spanairds, all Y-DNA and MTDNA studies over the years have proven this.

I trust more Lazaridis or David Reich than Racial reality, the fact that today EEF,WHG,EHG,CHG are all mixed doesn't mean than in the past those groups were quite distinct and distant. We wouldn't call them the same race if we would see them today on the street.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4170574/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5973800/

[Leto]

I trust more Lazaridis or David Reich than Racial reality, the fact that today EEF,WHG,EHG,CHG are all mixed doesn't mean than in the past those groups were quite distinct and distant. We wouldn't call them the same race if we would see them today on the street.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4170574/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5973800/
All those components are regarded as 'West Eurasian' and that's basically a more modern and fancier synonym for 'Caucasoid'. Just like we call East Eurasian 'Mongoloid'.

[grabielx]

All those components are regarded as 'West Eurasian' and that's basically a more modern and fancier synonym for 'Caucasoid'. Just like we call East Eurasian 'Mongoloid'.

:picard2: No, certainly Basal Eurasian or ANE were not West Eurasians, they are described as being "Eurasians" and you get from "Crown Eurasian" to "Ust'-Ishim"-like to these subgroups without much further mixing.

[ArdenTiberius]

All those components are regarded as 'West Eurasian' and that's basically a more modern and fancier synonym for 'Caucasoid'. Just like we call East Eurasian 'Mongoloid'.

I thought East Eurasian was a mixed component between Caucasoids and Mongoloids.

[ArdenTiberius]

I trust more Lazaridis or David Reich than Racial reality, the fact that today EEF,WHG,EHG,CHG are all mixed doesn't mean than in the past those groups were quite distinct and distant. We wouldn't call them the same race if we would see them today on the street.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4170574/
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5973800/

Racial reality uses legitimate cited sources. I am not talking about that, I am only talking about post Neolithic MENA and Negroid lineages in Italy, both are very low among ethnic Italians. Obviously those lineages are going to go up due to mass non-european immigration which is not good but I'm sure it won't go up as fast as the Barbarian whores of North Europe.

So you think 23andme and Ancestry DNA are not lying about Italian DNA? Perhaps they changed their results after seeing what I said. These commercial DNA companies claiming to go back 500-700 years for 23andme, I recall 1000 years for Ancestry DNA yet they are obviously lying about Italian admixture.

It is impossible for any ethnic Italian to have that much MENA within the last 700-1000 years yet so many old and current results have shown 10-20% MENA for Spaniards and South Italians.