East darker than west and west darker than east

[princeton90]

List countries whose eastern part is darker pigmented than its western part and vice versa.

[princeton90]

Iran: east is darker.

[princeton90]

France: west is darker.

[Peter Parker]

Germany: Southwest darker than Northeast, but Northeast darker than Northwest

[Komintasavalta]

In Finland, the west is darker according to Heapost 2008 (men only, based on data collected by Karin Mark) (https://www.etis.ee/Portal/Publications/Display/1fd319c0-7408-4e31-9f18-b9b3010eabad). The division between Western Finnish and Eastern Finnish subpopulations was added by me, and it's based on dialect areas and not geography. Northern Finland is mostly part of the Western Finnish dialect area, but it's genetically a mixture between Eastern Finns, Saami, and Western Finns (listed in alphabetical order; not in order of genetic input). Heapost and Mark called Finns from Kuusamo, Salla, and Savukoski "Northeastern Finns", but Salla and Savukoski are actually part of the Western Finnish dialect area.

(sample size;percentage of light blonde, blonde, and dark blonde hair;percentage of blue and gray eyes (9-12 on Bunak scale);average hair color;average eye color;location;subpopulation)
105;26.2;67.6;2.86;0.34;Askola;Western Finns
92;25.0;62.0;2.87;0.42;Mynämäki;Western Finns
85;20.8;62.4;3.01;0.41;Kokemäki;Western Finns
112;25.0;63.4;3.06;0.38;Kurikka;Western Finns
96;24.2;70.8;2.97;0.30;Hauho;Western Finns
140;38.9;80.0;2.64;0.24;Keuruu;Eastern Finns
146;27.5;63.7;2.76;0.38;Ristiina;Eastern Finns
101;41.5;70.3;2.54;0.30;Kiuruvesi;Eastern Finns
112;32.0;71.4;2.84;0.29;Kesälahti;Western Finns
116;34.5;74.2;2.65;0.27;Ylitornio;Northern Finns
143;30.0;76.2;2.79;0.28;Kuusamo;Eastern Finns
145;23.3;67.6;2.95;0.37;Salla;Northern Finns
82;23.3;70.7;2.81;0.30;Savukoski;Northern Finns
124;27.0;72.6;2.84;0.29;Åland;Swedish-speaking population of Finland
146;17.2;61.7;3.08;0.42;Närpes;Swedish-speaking population of Finland
140;21.1;61.4;3.02;0.44;Liljendal;Swedish-speaking population of Finland

Averages weighted by sample size:

(percentage of light blonde, blonde, and dark blonde hair;percentage of blue and gray eyes (9-12 on Bunak scale);average hair color;average eye color;subpopulation)
25.79;66.45;2.93;0.35;Western Finns
33.85;72.64;2.69;0.30;Eastern Finns
27.09;70.57;2.82;0.32;Northern Finns
21.50;64.89;2.99;0.39;Swedish-speaking population of Finland

[Oliver109]

Austria is i believe darker in the east than in the west, same goes for Denmark with the blondest parts being in the western Jutland region.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Austria is i believe darker in the east than in the west, same goes for Denmark with the blondest parts being in the western Jutland region.
I've seen old studies that suggest this, and it's possible, but I don't think so. Definitely very possible though.

[Kivan]

Georgians claim that Western Gerogians are lighter than the Eastern ones.

[Oliver109]

I've seen old studies that suggest this, and it's possible, but I don't think so. Definitely very possible though.

Maybe, i was basing it more on my own personal study(sort of!) when i posted some pictures from a college in eastern Austria, they seemed more brunet than i would expect but then Hungary is close by.

[Immanenz]

Austria is i believe darker in the east than in the west,

I've seen old studies that suggest this, and it's possible, but I don't think so. Definitely very possible though.

i think its a bit more complicated. Imo lightness peakers in Upper Austria, which is neither West nor East. Tyrol/ Vorarlberg/ Salzburg on the other hand are most likely on average darker, even though frequency of blonde isnt that bad there. East Austria: lower Austria, Burgenland, Styria are more moderate in pigmentation and colser to West Slavs too

[Immanenz]

Austria is i believe darker in the east than in the west,

I've seen old studies that suggest this, and it's possible, but I don't think so. Definitely very possible though.

i think its a bit more complicated. Imo lightness peakes in Upper Austria, which is neither West nor East. Tyrol/ Vorarlberg/ Salzburg on the other hand are most likely on average darker, even though frequency of blonde isnt that bad there. East Austria: lower Austria, Burgenland, Styria are more moderate in pigmentation and colser to West Slavs too

[Oliver109]

i think its a bit more complicated. Imo lightness peakers in Upper Austria, which is neither West nor East. Tyrol/ Vorarlberg/ Salzburg on the other hand are most likely on average darker, even though frequency of blonde isnt that bad there. East Austria: lower Austria, Burgenland, Styria are more moderate in pigmentation and colser to West Slavs too

That is what i thought generally, though i would have thought Styria was the darkest region and surrounding Vienna. It would be interesting to see what people say about the Czech Republic and Slovakia, always had them down as being quite uniform in pigmentation but maybe there are stronger regional differences between a lighter west and darker east?

[Oliver109]

i think its a bit more complicated. Imo lightness peakers in Upper Austria, which is neither West nor East. Tyrol/ Vorarlberg/ Salzburg on the other hand are most likely on average darker, even though frequency of blonde isnt that bad there. East Austria: lower Austria, Burgenland, Styria are more moderate in pigmentation and colser to West Slavs too

That is what i thought generally, though i would have thought Styria was the darkest region and surrounding Vienna. It would be interesting to see what people say about the Czech Republic and Slovakia, always had them down as being quite uniform in pigmentation but maybe there are stronger regional differences between a lighter west and darker east?

[XenophobicPrussian]

i think its a bit more complicated. Imo lightness peakers in Upper Austria, which is neither West nor East. Tyrol/ Vorarlberg/ Salzburg on the other hand are most likely on average darker, even though frequency of blonde isnt that bad there. East Austria: lower Austria, Burgenland, Styria are more moderate in pigmentation and colser to West Slavs too
Yeah that's what I was thinking anyway, but was just really commenting that the Alps/Tyrol probably aren't lighter than surrounding Vienna area. Agree Upper Austria should be the lightest region.

That is what i thought generally, though i would have thought Styria was the darkest region and surrounding Vienna. It would be interesting to see what people say about the Czech Republic and Slovakia, always had them down as being quite uniform in pigmentation but maybe there are stronger regional differences between a lighter west and darker east?
Czechia and Slovakia definitely will have a lighter east, the eastern Carpathian areas of Slovakia are really dark and I've seen Croatian/Moldovan clustering samples from there and even from SW Ukraine.

Ukraine might be one of the few eastern countries where the east is lighter(Komin would also argue for Finland and has good data but I don't think so), while in far western Europe usually the easts are lighter, especially in the British Isles, and even in Norway(Bergen vs rest of country is definitely noticable). Spain overall might be an outlier, I've seen conflicting east/west data from there, only will say the lightest part of Spain is likely Cantabria and Asturias and not the Pyrenees. Also not sure about South Germany, outside my own I trust ToeKneeHwin's numbers the most and he had regional differences but supposedly N = 300 per country but that wouldn't be high enough to distinguish Bavaria from Baden(probably only had 1 team worth N for each) for example. For old anthropologists, Virchow 1875 had Bavaria the darkest, and Wurtemburg in the middle the lightest, while another anthropologist had Baden/Bavaria equally light and Wurtemburg in the middle the darkest, lots of conflicting data.

[Komintasavalta]

Coon also wrote that eastern Saami were lighter than western Saami (https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-IX2.htm):


Norwegian writers usually divide the Lapps into two main classes, the Reindeer Lapps, living in the forests and mountains, and the Sedentary Lapps, living along the coast and rivers, subsisting mostly on fish. [...]

Thus although Norway holds the majority of the world's Lapps, those who preserve the purest Lappish type, both in culture and race, live over the Swedish border. [...]

The selected "pure" groups, Bryn's Reindeer Lapps, and some of Geyer's mountain and forest Lapps from Sweden, have seventy per cent or over of this dark hair, while the fairest Lapps, with a majority of brown and blond shades, are found in Finland and in the Kola Peninsula. [...]

Pure dark eyes are found among one-third of Reindeer Lapps, and among as few as eight per cent in the total of Lapps from Norway.14 Pure light and light-mixed eyes are commonest among the Lapps of Finland, where they total between thirty and forty per cent, and least common among the Reindeer Lapps of interior Norway and Sweden.

According to Karin Mark's data published in Heapost 2006 (https://www.etis.ee/Portal/Publications/Display/1fd319c0-7408-4e31-9f18-b9b3010eabad), Skolt Saami were the lightest (second most eastern), followed by Inari Saami, Kola Saami (most eastern), and North Saami (most western). Inari Saami are the second most western, but they still live in the eastern part of the traditional Saami area.

https://i.ibb.co/YTRLLfW/heapost-2008-saami-pigmentation.png
https://i.ibb.co/0XJswC1/saami-dialects.png

In Tambets 2018, Swedish Saami had much higher Siberian admixture than Russian Saami (https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13059-018-1522-1/figures/3).

[Harkonnen]

Coon also wrote that eastern Saami were lighter than western Saami (https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/chapter-IX2.htm):


Norwegian writers usually divide the Lapps into two main classes, the Reindeer Lapps, living in the forests and mountains, and the Sedentary Lapps, living along the coast and rivers, subsisting mostly on fish. [...]

Thus although Norway holds the majority of the world's Lapps, those who preserve the purest Lappish type, both in culture and race, live over the Swedish border. [...]

The selected "pure" groups, Bryn's Reindeer Lapps, and some of Geyer's mountain and forest Lapps from Sweden, have seventy per cent or over of this dark hair, while the fairest Lapps, with a majority of brown and blond shades, are found in Finland and in the Kola Peninsula. [...]

Pure dark eyes are found among one-third of Reindeer Lapps, and among as few as eight per cent in the total of Lapps from Norway.14 Pure light and light-mixed eyes are commonest among the Lapps of Finland, where they total between thirty and forty per cent, and least common among the Reindeer Lapps of interior Norway and Sweden.

According to Karin Mark's data published in Heapost 2006 (https://www.etis.ee/Portal/Publications/Display/1fd319c0-7408-4e31-9f18-b9b3010eabad), Skolt Saami were the lightest (second most eastern), followed by Inari Saami, Kola Saami (most eastern), and North Saami (most western). Inari Saami are the second most western, but they still live in the eastern part of the traditional Saami area.

https://i.ibb.co/YTRLLfW/heapost-2008-saami-pigmentation.png
https://i.ibb.co/0XJswC1/saami-dialects.png

In Tambets 2018, Swedish Saami had much higher Siberian admixture than Russian Saami (https://genomebiology.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s13059-018-1522-1/figures/3).

Dat dos it. The R1 must have darkened dem
https://i.imgur.com/Zgm1ofK.png

[Komintasavalta]

I classified the eye color of players who I estimated to be ethnic Finns or Finland-Swedes in the Finnish hockey league (https://liiga.fi/fi/pelaajat/2020-2021/). I excluded players who were missing a photo. I excluded ethnic Finns whose place of birth was not listed as Finland. I excluded 9 players who I estimated to have a foreign background, but I probably missed some players with a foreign background, because I only looked up the ethnic background of a few players with a foreign-sounding name.

Here's the percentage of players who I classified as having light eyes:

All: 220/262 (84.0%)
Eastern Finnish dialect area: 57/66 (86.4%)
Western Finnish dialect area and Swedish-speaking regions (Helsinki, Espoo, Vantaa, and Tampere excluded): 104/124 (83.9%)
Western Finnish dialect area and Swedish-speaking regions (Helsinki, Espoo, Vantaa, and Tampere not excluded): 163/196 (83.2%)
Players with a Swedish-sounding name: 20/26 (76.9%)
Players with a surname ending in "-nen": 106/120 (88.3%)

Eastern and Western Finns have of course already mixed to a large extent, partially because Karelians were resettled in Western Finland after World War 2, and also because many people from the Eastern Finnish dialect area have moved to the large Western Finnish cities of Helsinki, Espoo, Vantaa, and Tampere.

Many of the players who I marked as having a Swedish-sounding name have a Swedish-sounding surname but a Finnish first name, and Swedish-sounding surnames are more common among Western Finns than Eastern Finns. I wouldn't be surprised if most of the players who I marked as having a Swedish-sounding name would be Finnish-speaking.

Surnames ending in "-nen" are more common among Eastern Finns than Western Finns.

Löfgren 1937 (https://finnanthro.blogspot.com/2006/12/nyland-summary.html) found Swedish-speakers from Uusimaa to be more dark-haired than Finnish-speakers from Uusimaa. In the set of data collected by Karin Mark that was published by Heapost 2008 (https://www.etis.ee/Portal/Publications/Display/1fd319c0-7408-4e31-9f18-b9b3010eabad), the Swedish-speaking population of Finland was listed as much more dark-eyed and dark-haired than the Finnish-speaking population of Finland. Therefore on my list above, the gap between the Eastern Finnish and Western Finnish dialect areas might decrease if I was able to exclude all Swedish-speaking players.

The average height was 183.9 cm for players from the Western Finnish dialect area and Swedish-speaking regions, and it was about 1 cm shorter (182.9 cm) for players from the Eastern Finnish dialect area.

There was a slightly negative correlation coefficient (-.08) between lightness of eye color (expressed on a two-option scale as 0 for dark and 1 for light) and height.

[michal3141]

I would say in Croatia west is darker (the Adriatic coast) and east is lighter. Not sure if Croatian members would agree.
And country where west is lighter than east - maybe India?

[Oliver109]

I think that makes sense, same for Slovenia too probably though that is harder to say as i think that even the bits near the Italian border are much more Nordid in general.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Yeah that's what I was thinking anyway, but was just really commenting that the Alps/Tyrol probably aren't lighter than surrounding Vienna area. Agree Upper Austria should be the lightest region.

Czechia and Slovakia definitely will have a lighter east, the eastern Carpathian areas of Slovakia are really dark and I've seen Croatian/Moldovan clustering samples from there and even from SW Ukraine.

Ukraine might be one of the few eastern countries where the east is lighter(Komin would also argue for Finland and has good data but I don't think so), while in far western Europe usually the easts are lighter, especially in the British Isles, and even in Norway(Bergen vs rest of country is definitely noticable). Spain overall might be an outlier, I've seen conflicting east/west data from there, only will say the lightest part of Spain is likely Cantabria and Asturias and not the Pyrenees. Also not sure about South Germany, outside my own I trust ToeKneeHwin's numbers the most and he had regional differences but supposedly N = 300 per country but that wouldn't be high enough to distinguish Bavaria from Baden(probably only had 1 team worth N for each) for example. For old anthropologists, Virchow 1875 had Bavaria the darkest, and Wurtemburg in the middle the lightest, while another anthropologist had Baden/Bavaria equally light and Wurtemburg in the middle the darkest, lots of conflicting data.
Sorry, I meant lighter west for Czechia and Slovakia.

[XenophobicPrussian]

I would say in Croatia west is darker (the Adriatic coast) and east is lighter. Not sure if Croatian members would agree.
And country where west is lighter than east - maybe India?
That's only because it's also more southern, but yeah. Turkey definitely has a much lighter west than east, also Czechia and Slovakia, probably even Poland too although I'd be hesitant on Silesia as it has so many WW2 Ukrainian Poles.

I can say Finland is probably still debatable, because no modern studies including TNH's have touched regional differences I don't think, but genetically it makes sense for W. Finland to be lighter, and most anthropologists had the west as lighter. Coon(well not Coon, but the anthropologists he cited, Luther and Westerlund) both had W(specifically the SW) as the lightest, although Westerlund agrees with Karin Mark's later findings that Finns are lighter than Finnish Swedes, although not to the same extent as Karin did:


The Finns and Swedes of the western and southern provinces are almost identical in hair color proportions, although the Finns have a little more ash-blond, and the Swedes a little more brown. The distribution of hair color shows the greatest degree of blondism among the Finns living in Nyland, Finland Proper, and Satakunta - these have over 60 per cent of ash-blond and golden shades, more than the Swedish speakers


The eye color of the Finns is, as one would expect, prevailingly light, with blue commoner than gray. Westerlund finds but 7 per cent of brown eyes, and 15 per cent of mixed, while Luther's mixed group comprises 15 per cent. Since the eye color of the Finns and of the Swedes in the coastal regions is equally distributed, it is reasonable to suppose that Finland, in this respect, is about equal to Scandinavia. Blue eyes, with a regional maximum of 53 per cent, are commonest in southern Ostrobothnia; while gray eyes, attaining 37 per cent, are concentrated in Finland Proper.


the maximum of Westerlund's blue + gray classes combined is 83 per cent in Finland Proper, the minimum 71.8 per cent in northern Ostrobothnia

Lundman agreed as well:

https://a.disquscdn.com/uploads/mediaembed/images/613/7165/original.jpg

[Cristiano viejo]

http://www.mutantecreativo.com/web/uploads/$imaxes/imaxe/4f290bb2a5235.png?options=resize%2C760

[Centurion]

Ireland: west darker than east.

[Mortimer]

i think its a bit more complicated. Imo lightness peakers in Upper Austria, which is neither West nor East. Tyrol/ Vorarlberg/ Salzburg on the other hand are most likely on average darker, even though frequency of blonde isnt that bad there. East Austria: lower Austria, Burgenland, Styria are more moderate in pigmentation and colser to West Slavs too

I was in a small village in upper austria, nearer to munich then to vienna by distance. The kids in elementary school were quiete light. Later there were many brunettes too in high school and only a few were really blonde, as in yellow hair not just medium or light brown hair.

Elementary school First communion (small village)
https://i.ibb.co/JpBd3Sw/Erstkommunion.jpg (https://ibb.co/LgkPNsX)

High school/Gymnasium (Bezirkshauptstadt)
https://i.ibb.co/bFxCRK3/School.jpg (https://ibb.co/qCzcFrn)

[Trouble]

Virtually all middle eastern+south asian countries, east darker than west. China, west darker than east.

[Oliver109]

I was in a small village in upper austria, nearer to munich then to vienna by distance. The kids in elementary school were quiete light. Later there were many brunettes too in high school and only a few were really blonde, as in yellow hair not just medium or light brown hair.

Elementary school First communion (small village)
https://i.ibb.co/JpBd3Sw/Erstkommunion.jpg (https://ibb.co/LgkPNsX)

High school/Gymnasium (Bezirkshauptstadt)
https://i.ibb.co/bFxCRK3/School.jpg (https://ibb.co/qCzcFrn)

Pretty comparable i would say with Walloons from Belgium, Germanic looking generally but more on the brunet side.

[Frowning Man]

Georgians claim that Western Gerogians are lighter than the Eastern ones.

It's true. I myself am from western georgia. For me, the difference between east and west of Georgia is obvious.

[GoalPoacher]

It's true. I myself am from western georgia. For me, the difference between east and west of Georgia is obvious.

Aren't Western and Eastern Georgians genetically same though?

[Frowning Man]

Aren't Western and Eastern Georgians genetically same though?

I just know that Western Georgians have more CHG.
But there is a noticeable difference between Western and Eastern Georgians.
For example, I pass in western Georgia, but not in eastern Georgia.
Western Georgia is less sunny, more wooded, more foggy and rains more often there.
Eastern Georgia is sunnier and drier.

Western Georgia is more mono-national and not mixed. This applies to non-touristy rural areas. Eastern is more multi-ethnic and mixed. Many Armenians, Azerbajans, Kurds, Jews, Chechens and others live there. And Eastern Georgians are mixed with them. Eastern Georgians from Tbilisi, Kakheti and Javakheti are a bit like Armenians. The most touristy regions of Georgia are the most multicultural and the most mixed.

[GoalPoacher]

I just know that Western Georgians have more CHG.
But there is a noticeable difference between Western and Eastern Georgians.
For example, I pass in western Georgia, but not in eastern Georgia.
Western Georgia is less sunny, more wooded, more foggy and rains more often there.
Eastern Georgia is sunnier and drier.

Western Georgia is more mono-national and not mixed. This applies to non-touristy rural areas. Eastern is more multi-ethnic and mixed. Many Armenians, Azerbajans, Kurds, Jews, Chechens and others live there. And Eastern Georgians are mixed with them. Eastern Georgians from Tbilisi, Kakheti and Javakheti are a bit like Armenians. The most touristy regions of Georgia are the most multicultural and the most mixed.

I think we will know it better when regional averages of Georgia are added to G25. Most Gedmatch calculators give shitty results for Kartvelians due to calculator effect.

[Grace O'Malley]

Ireland: west darker than east.

Is there any evidence for that? I personally doubt it from first hand knowledge. I think the west might be more redhaired but I don't know if there are any figures on this . Eastern Ireland more blond. Anyway I doubt there are great differences in Ireland. In what way is the west darker anyway? It definitely isn't skin or eye colour.

Sligo

https://e2.365dm.com/20/11/2048x1152/skysports-sligo-gaa-galway_5160842.jpg

Galway

https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.3989918.1566146954!/image/image.jpg

I got the pictures from this search.

https://www.google.com/search?q=GAA+galway&sxsrf=ALeKk0096OzHd6b350S6OuehuksT2-rh4g:1609320963147&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiEz9nis_XtAhVS6XMBHXcrA0cQ_AUoAnoECAwQB A&biw=1366&bih=676

I just don't think there are any factors to warrant differences in colouring for different parts of Ireland. Its not weather factors and most Irish descend from roughly the same people.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Is there any evidence for that? I personally doubt it from first hand knowledge. I think the west might be more redhaired but I don't know if there are any figures on this . Eastern Ireland more blond. Anyway I doubt there are great differences in Ireland. In what way is the west darker anyway? It definitely isn't skin or eye colour.

Sligo

https://e2.365dm.com/20/11/2048x1152/skysports-sligo-gaa-galway_5160842.jpg

Galway

https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.3989918.1566146954!/image/image.jpg

I got the pictures from this search.

https://www.google.com/search?q=GAA+galway&sxsrf=ALeKk0096OzHd6b350S6OuehuksT2-rh4g:1609320963147&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiEz9nis_XtAhVS6XMBHXcrA0cQ_AUoAnoECAwQB A&biw=1366&bih=676

I just don't think there are any factors to warrant differences in colouring for different parts of Ireland. Its not weather factors and most Irish descend from roughly the same people.
Uh, literally every old study done in the region?

I agree the West is probably more red haired, it's also more light eyed most likely(according to both Beddoe and Supercomputer's compilation of old studies), but I assume most people mean hair colour when they talk about lighter. East is definitely lighter haired than the West in both Ireland and the British Isles, West is lighter eyed. Similar situations elsewhere, Germany is lighter haired than Belarus, but Belarus is lighter eyed.


I got the pictures from this search.

I don't want to accuse you of something you didn't do so I'll put the disclaimer, but, in other words, you cherrypicked by passing by a perfectly fine crowd pic that came before the ones you posted, unless we're having different search algorithms.

https://www.galwayindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Galway_Leinster_U-21_Champions_-_web.jpg

That's the first group picture that comes up for me in the search you linked, which is visibly much darker haired.

[Oliver109]

Uh, literally every old study done in the region?

I agree the West is probably more red haired, it's also more light eyed most likely(according to both Beddoe and Supercomputer's compilation of old studies), but I assume most people mean hair colour when they talk about lighter. East is definitely lighter haired than the West in both Ireland and the British Isles, West is lighter eyed. Similar situations elsewhere, Germany is lighter haired than Belarus, but Belarus is lighter eyed.



I don't want to accuse you of something you didn't do so I'll put the disclaimer, but, in other words, you cherrypicked by passing by a perfectly fine crowd pic that came before the ones you posted, unless we're having different search algorithms.

https://www.galwayindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Galway_Leinster_U-21_Champions_-_web.jpg

That's the first group picture that comes up for me in the search you linked, which is visibly much darker haired.
I am pretty sure that Belarus is blonder than Germany in general, especially when you compare Belarus with regions like Baden Wurttemberg, Ireland is certainly blonder in the east though not by much, the dark hair and pale skin look is pretty universal across the country and nowhere is like Yorkshire or Sussex when it comes to blondness.

[Grace O'Malley]

Uh, literally every old study done in the region?

I agree the West is probably more red haired, it's also more light eyed most likely(according to both Beddoe and Supercomputer's compilation of old studies), but I assume most people mean hair colour when they talk about lighter. East is definitely lighter haired than the West in both Ireland and the British Isles, West is lighter eyed. Similar situations elsewhere, Germany is lighter haired than Belarus, but Belarus is lighter eyed.



I don't want to accuse you of something you didn't do so I'll put the disclaimer, but, in other words, you cherrypicked by passing by a perfectly fine crowd pic that came before the ones you posted, unless we're having different search algorithms.

https://www.galwayindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Galway_Leinster_U-21_Champions_-_web.jpg

That's the first group picture that comes up for me in the search you linked, which is visibly much darker haired.

Seriously? Is there a big difference? The picture I posted is just up closer and has some redheads no blonds. The one you posted has a blond and redhead and some med brown and darker brown. Cherrypicked my arse. There isn't a huge difference which there isn't in any pictures of the Irish. You will usually get a redhead or two.

No it was not my intention to cherrypick and as I said is there a big difference? I also put in the link so people can see for themselves.

This is the one next to the first one.

https://media.galwaydaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/22094938/20180813-Galway-Senior-Football.jpg

Talk about splitting hairs. :rolleyes: I don't know but to me there isn't a great deal of difference.



https://i.imgur.com/tYMKSKu.png

And the picture you posted isn't a whole lot different as far as hair colour goes. I put in the link and never intended to just post the first pictures but just a representative of the hair and skin colour. I can't believe someone would say that is cherrypicking.

[Tenma de Pegasus]

Eastern and Western Chile

[XenophobicPrussian]

Seriously? Is there a big difference? The picture I posted is just up closer and has some redheads no blonds. The one you posted has a blond and redhead and some med brown and darker brown. Cherrypicked my arse. There isn't a huge difference which there isn't in any pictures of the Irish. You will usually get a redhead or two.

No it was not my intention to cherrypick and as I said is there a big difference? I also put in the link so people can see for themselves.

This is the one next to the first one.

https://media.galwaydaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/22094938/20180813-Galway-Senior-Football.jpg

Talk about splitting hairs. :rolleyes: I don't know but to me there isn't a great deal of difference.



https://i.imgur.com/tYMKSKu.png

And the picture you posted isn't a whole lot different as far as hair colour goes. I put in the link and never intended to just post the first pictures but just a representative of the hair and skin colour. I can't believe someone would say that is cherrypicking.
Big difference.

1st pic you posted: 12/25 definite dark

2nd pic you posted: 11/23 definite dark, 3 very stand out red heads

Ommited pic: 16/21 definite dark, only 1 red head

Definitely splitting hairs. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any of these numbers are accurate or anything, literally the only difference could only be lighting between the pics and most of the players are actually the same people, I wouldn't be surprised. That's not the point. The point is you cherrypicked, and the images are clearly very different.

5 years on this forum I've been having similar arguments with you and you still have the same stubbornness about Irish hair colour, I don't understand it.

[Grace O'Malley]

Big difference.

1st pic you posted: 12/25 definite dark

2nd pic you posted: 11/23 definite dark, 3 very stand out red heads

Ommited pic: 16/21 definite dark, only 1 red head

Definitely splitting hairs. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying any of these numbers are accurate or anything, literally the only difference could only be lighting between the pics and most of the players are actually the same people, I wouldn't be surprised. That's not the point. The point is you cherrypicked, and the images are clearly very different.

5 years on this forum I've been having similar arguments with you and you still have the same stubbornness about Irish hair colour, I don't understand it.

Have we had many discussions? I'm also not sure what you mean by stubbornness about Irish hair colour. You can look and see that I've always said the Irish are majority brown haired so what would I be arguing about? It was not cherrypicked which is why I put in the link. You might be more finetuned to the hues of hair colour than myself but you can put in a many pictures of the Irish and really there is not a great amount of difference.

From that link


https://www.galwayindependent.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/Galway_Leinster_U-21_Champions_-_web.jpg
https://e2.365dm.com/20/11/2048x1152/skysports-sligo-gaa-galway_5160842.jpg
https://media.galwaydaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/22094938/20180813-Galway-Senior-Football.jpg
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/E5Va9TMzt8g/maxresdefault.jpg
https://img.rasset.ie/00128c07-500.jpg
https://media.galwaydaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/22094938/20180813-Galway-Senior-Football.jpg

Such a cherrypicker. There isn't huge differences between any of the pictures. Most are brown haired with some redheads and blonds.

https://www.google.com/search?q=galway+gaa&sxsrf=ALeKk00mK4cygrCm0mBnb5y1aeCHLJ0xSw:160933474 6139&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj_1fiO5_XtAhXPzzgGHS1iDXIQ_AUoAnoECAUQB A&biw=1366&bih=676#imgrc=7Zr2lAnp5jn13M

These are the girls

https://www.google.com/search?q=galway+gaa+camogie&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwimke2R5_XtAhWKDLcAHffyBYMQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=galway+gaa+camogie&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzIECCMQJzIECAAQGDIECAAQGDoECAAQQzo CCAA6BAgAEB46BggAEAUQHjoGCAAQCBAeUKTeF1jx7xdg8PEXa ABwAHgAgAHzA4gB-RGSAQcyLTMuMy4xmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=4H_sX6ahDoqZ3LUP9-WXmAg&bih=676&biw=1366

https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.4011698.1567971022!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/box_620_330/image.jpg

https://www.galwaygaa.ie/images/2016/2017GA2807.jpg

https://img.rasset.ie/0011d6f8-1600.jpg

I'm not sure what you are trying to prove here. I've put in the links and you can post what pictures you like. Don't accuse me of cherrypicking mate with absolute no evidence just what's going on in your own head. The links are there for anyone to look at. No one else puts in links. I don't understand you but I think some of this is in your own head.

[Steppe Timelord]

Turkey, west lighter than east.

China, Xinjiang(west) lighter than east(definitely, don't buy those stories as if east asians are any lighter than caucasoids, if you put them to work in the sun they'll tan up to skin type V). Even in European Russia, west is lighter than east maybe.

[Damião de Góis]

Our country is too "thin" to have any east-west differences. But i'll wait for the opinion of any foreign expert.

[Oliver109]

Our country is too "thin" to have any east-west differences. But i'll wait for the opinion of any foreign expert.

Foreign "expert" calling, Portugal is a tricky one in this regard, of course the north is lighter than the south but i would hazard a bet that in general the west is lighter than the east, for example areas around Lisbon are lighter than the Alentejo but that is probably due to historic migration from the North, as for northern Portugal having never been there i will probably guess that the west is lighter as the parts of Spain adjoining like Castilla Leon are actually quite dark but i have known quite a few lighter people from the North of Portugal, a real mish mash of peoples there with some much lighter or darker than you would expect.

[Damião de Góis]

Foreign "expert" calling, Portugal is a tricky one in this regard, of course the north is lighter than the south but i would hazard a bet that in general the west is lighter than the east, for example areas around Lisbon are lighter than the Alentejo but that is probably due to historic migration from the North, as for northern Portugal having never been there i will probably guess that the west is lighter as the parts of Spain adjoining like Castilla Leon are actually quite dark but i have known quite a few lighter people from the North of Portugal, a real mish mash of peoples there with some much lighter or darker than you would expect.

That's very interesting but Portugal was "populating" conquered territory as it was expanding south. It's the reason why there are no regional surnames, or why people here can't guess someone's region based on looks. You can find light or dark people everywhere in the country.

A big difference is population density, there is more people in the north than in the south. The west also has more people than the east.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b1/Densidade_populacional_por_concelho_-_INE_2001.png/260px-Densidade_populacional_por_concelho_-_INE_2001.png

[princeton90]

And country where west is lighter than east - maybe India?

India, Germany, Turkey, Iran, Syria, I believe Romania and Bulgaria too.

[Trouble]

Pakistan, I believe is the most extreme example of the west lighter than east phenomenon.

Indonesia is another example.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Pakistan, I believe is the most extreme example of the west lighter than east phenomenon.

Indonesia is another example.
Pakistan might be a bit tough, on one hand you have Balochistan in the west(very Iranian-like I guess), but on the other hand you have Himalayan areas, even Pashtun areas in the east, but also the very dark Sindhis. Indonesia is a good example yeah.

[Dr_Maul]

East Med countries are probably lighter by the Med (western part)

[Trouble]

Pakistan might be a bit tough, on one hand you have Balochistan in the west(very Iranian-like I guess), but on the other hand you have Himalayan areas, even Pashtun areas in the east, but also the very dark Sindhis. Indonesia is a good example yeah.

The difference between east and west becomes more dramatic the further north you go. Baloch are naturally quite tanned despite being the least South Asian shifted group in the country due to the climate they dwell in, similar to Gulf Arabs. It's easily the hottest part of the country, yet they are still lighter than the people on the other side of the river.

Further north where the climate is colder and more mountainous west of the Indus, the difference is even more noticeable compared to the northeastern plains.

[KuakoVoice]

Indonesia

Compare Sundanese or Javanese to West Papuans or even Timorese.It doesnt help that skin whitening is extremely popular among even the men in Java while most Eastern Indonesians are naturally darker and live much more outdoorsy lifestyles.

[Trouble]

Indonesia

Compare Sundanese or Javanese to West Papuans or even Timorese.It doesnt help that skin whitening is extremely popular among even the men in Java while most Eastern Indonesians are naturally darker and live much more outdoorsy lifestyles.

West Indonesians are a disgrace

[KuakoVoice]

West Indonesians are a disgrace

Just compare not just the skintone difference between the light skinned Javanese "man" to the dark skinned Seramese Man.

https://ibb.co/cJ2ZXMR
https://ibb.co/GCKxcwT

But especially the features are extremely different.And the dark skinned guy isnt even Papuan but Moluccan.West Papuans,Timorese and Aru Islanders look even more distinct.

[Thambi]

india definitely. People get darker more east you go at a similar latitude, except for himalayan region and northeast states.

[princeton90]

Turkey, west lighter than east.

China, Xinjiang(west) lighter than east(definitely, don't buy those stories as if east asians are any lighter than caucasoids, if you put them to work in the sun they'll tan up to skin type V). Even in European Russia, west is lighter than east maybe.

Mongoloids are usually of Farmer descent, they have less Northern ancestry than Caucasoids.

[sekhmet777]

East darker than West: Iran, Russia, China, Indonesia, India

West darker than East: Britain, Myanmar