Medieval Slav-German border in the light of research into Y-DNA haplogroups

[Peterski]

Interesting new article from Geographia Polonica:

https://www.geographiapolonica.pl/article/item/12646.html

PDF - https://rcin.org.pl/igipz/Content/153568/WA51_187810_r2020-t93-no4_G-Polonica-Kowalski.pdf

Abstract:

"In the 8th century, the first political boundary between Germany (the land of the Franks) and the Slav people – known as Limes Sorabicus – followed the line of the Rivers Elbe and its tributary the Saale. In later centuries this was breached under the influence of an eastwards political expansion of Germany also characterised by developing German colonisation in that same direction (of the so-called Ostsiedlung). The consequence was for German regional communities to take shape to the east of the old Limes Sorabicus. Alongside the emigrants from the west, further participants in the process were autochthonous Slavs and Balts. This mixed origin of the new communities arising is revealed in historical accounts, but also via the results of scientific analyses of various profiles. The genetic research carried out to date supports the above contention, as well as a conclusion that the zone around the old Limes Sorabicus, despite its running through the centre of what is today an ethnically-German area, continues to represent a separation of populations whose ancestors are mainly of distinct origins."

Maps from the article:

https://i.imgur.com/5AjNLWV.png

https://i.imgur.com/apSw1kA.png

[Ülev]

yes I2a1b

[Peterski]

It is based largely on data from FTDNA Projects:

https://i.imgur.com/MdpZ5Az.png

[Longbowman]

An example of citizen scientists and commercial DNA tests informing understanding of history.

[Loki]

There you can see that R1a is native to Germany, and has been since long before the world war population movements and replacements. It is older than the Slavic-Germanic divide.

[Loki]

Interesting that the Vikings (Vikings Kings too) had marriage relations (and children) with Wendish women in Northern Germany area in very early medieval times.

[PaleoEuropean]

There you can see that R1a is native to Germany, and has been since long before the world war population movements and replacements. It is older than the Slavic-Germanic divide.

Without a doubt. The majority comes though most likely from the Slavic settlements during the Viking age.

[PaleoEuropean]

Interesting that the Vikings (Vikings Kings too) had marriage relations (and children) with Wendish women in Northern Germany area in very early medieval times.

The Vikings were pretty smart about marrying into peoples, you can see it too with Norse-Gaels; they were quick to hybridize their culture.

[PaleoEuropean]

An example of citizen scientists and commercial DNA tests informing understanding of history.

Sadly all the major universities half ass their studies.

[Linebacker]

yes I2a1b

I don't get what you mean by that.

Explain. (In terms a man with mortal IQ can understand)

[PopGenetics]

Seems like convincing correlation with Elbe river.

In North Germany, 28% R1a east of Elbe and 14% R1a West of Elbe. Then R1a is at 10%< significantly west of Elbe.

Genome-wide DNA could get a good idea how much Slavic vs West Euro (Franco-Germanic) ancestry exists in different parts of Germany and Poland. It would be needed to confirm Slavs east of Elbe were assimilated by Germany.

[Smitty]

I'd like to see reverse maps of R1b.