Masculinity

[Hedgerider]

I recently read this interesting article on Alternative Right about "Aesthetic Masculinity"



Aesthetic Masculinity

http://www.alternativeright.com/media/k2/items/cache/f8091000de3f026d209837e21bc2e700_M.jpg


Traditional societies draw a sharp sociological line between boy and man. You may be as young as 10 or 12, and boom, you're supposed to help support your family with income and moral authority. It's harder than you think. I remember being told about the oldest of sons in my grandfather's family. His father passed away when he was just a teenager, so he had to take care of both a grieving mother and nine other siblings, while managing a farm with animals and lots of forest acre. Would you nail that when you were 14, and succeed?


In a culture where manhood starts early and doesn't feature any noticable transition period from boy to man, you quickly adapt to any external circumstances. Those circumstances then help to define what it means to be a man. The properties and values we commonly associate with masculinity: independence, initiative, physical strength, moral and intellectual authority, integrity and artistic sensibility -- they have all spawned out of the tough cultural and physical climate where men have been put to test for survival. Today, with adolescence and aimless lifestyle wandering, young men are no longer men, but in the words of hipster-preacher Mark Driscoll, "boys who can shave." Aesthetic masculinity.

http://www.alternativeright.com/main/blogs/untimely-observations/aesthetic-masculinity/




I'm interested in knowing more about what men here think about masculinity, how do you as a man define masculinity and why is it important?

[Money Shot]

Deep subject. One I have given much thought to.


However, I do not currently have the time to make a reasoned reply, so therefore, I leave you a poem from Rudyard kipling:


If.


IF you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise:
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with Triumph and Disaster
And treat those two impostors just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to, broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with worn-out tools:

If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breathe a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: 'Hold on!'

If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
' Or walk with Kings - nor lose the common touch,
if neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you,
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run,
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man, my son!

[Heiligenschein]

Jack Donovan just put his latest writing, "No Man's Land," up for free download or purchase

http://www.jack-donovan.com/axis/no-mans-land/

[Curtis24]

To be masculine, means for a man to be of service to his community. As such, "masculine behavior" has changed quite a bit over the centuries. In ancient societies, men did two important things - farmed, and went to war. Thus, masculinity was focused almost exclusively on physical prowess and bravery.

In our modern society, since there are so many different ways for a man to contribute, there are many different types of ways to be masculine. David Petraeus(American general), Mick Jagger, and Steve Jobs, are all masucline figures, despite being a soldier, music singer, and software developer, respectively.

Unfortunately, it does seem that many men are now trying to exude "fake masculinism". I see this tied to the realities of globalism - most traditionally male work is being exported to immigrants, or made unnecessary through technological advances. Many men, if not most, now have no way whatsoever to distinguish themselves as being useful. Still more are just dropping out altogether...

[SaxonCeorl]

There's a line from the Godfather I often have in mind...

Don Corleone is advising his adult son Michael, and he says "I spent my whole life trying to avoid being carless. Women and children can afford to be careless, but not men."

This line really informs my conception of what it means to be a man. It's subtle in that it doesn't say women are careless, it merely says that women can afford to be careless, while men cannot. I think that, generally speaking, this is true.

To me, masculinity is about enjoying this extra bit of responsibility; for men that accept it, the world is ours. Although we modern men may politely say that it's a woman's world as well...inside, we know the world and everything in it belongs to us.

[Curtis24]

There's a line from the Godfather I often have in mind...

Don Corleone is advising his adult son Michael, and he says "I spent my whole life trying to avoid being carless. Women and children can afford to be careless, but not men."

This line really informs my conception of what it means to be a man. It's subtle in that it doesn't say women are careless, it merely says that women can afford to be careless, while men cannot. I think that, generally speaking, this is true.

To me, masculinity is about enjoying this extra bit of responsibility; for men that accept it, the world is ours. Although we modern men may politely say that it's a woman's world as well...inside, we know the world and everything in it belongs to us.

Yes, but because of outsourcing etc., very few men can have any real power in life...

[Money Shot]

Yes, but because of outsourcing etc., very few men can have any real power in life...


Some days I feel like saying to everyone :


This is my world and you are just living in it.


Other days, I'm at the mercy of the four winds. I have no control or direction.


This I must ponder awhile.

[ariaka]

I don't agree with drawing a sharp contrast between adulthood and childhood. This sharp contrast has made it so that children think they can get away with not being responsible simply because they're kids. Kids should be encouraged to be responsible too. They should be taught to do their own laundry and clean up after themselves and clean their dishes.

Instead of worrying about being initiated into manhood men should be concerned about being clean and hygienic. I know of too many males who are slobs, it's disgusting.

[derLowe]

I recently read this interesting article on Alternative Right about "Aesthetic Masculinity"




I'm interested in knowing more about what men here think about masculinity, how do you as a man define masculinity and why is it important?

People will remember us by our accomplishment not by our excuses.

In my opinion that is what being a man is about going out into the world and accomplish goals that matter to your self. It is a very Promethean action to struggle against the world and shape it into your image. Only through this constant competition and hard ship can a boys character be forged into a man, a sort of a constant trial by fire.

I also believe that a man cannot be cautious and calculated all the time he needs a spark of boldness, a temporary "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead!" kind of attitude that he unleashes when needed. This attitude can only be cultivated if you have full confidence in your self and faculties.

[Phil75231]

Unfortunately, it does seem that many men are now trying to exude "fake masculinism". I see this tied to the realities of globalism - most traditionally male work is being exported to immigrants, or made unnecessary through technological advances. Many men, if not most, now have no way whatsoever to distinguish themselves as being useful. Still more are just dropping out altogether...

The first sentence, plus all this post above this, is very agreeable. However, I think globalization has nothing to do with it. "Fake Masculine men" have existed since time immortal. To me, a man is someone who defines his own sense of purpose for himself - but only within the limits of basic human decency (defined as actions that have no reasonable chance of causing pointless and unnecessary harm to others, or to their dignity).

Pop culture definitions of masculinity - ones that convey certain ideas usually associated with the phrase "Be a Man and ...!"? Ehh ..... ithat's just part of the pop culture bureaucracy of stupid do's and don'ts - ones that stifle the human spirit, creativity, and independent though just as surely as real-world government bureaucracies stifle innovation and initiative with their own pointless do's and don'ts.

In fact, I look beyond masculinity and decide what's right for me. Anything else is just enslaving yourself to popular culture's and society's expectations about what you - as a male - ought to be. What the hell kind of manliness is it to submit to those expectations?

[AussieScott]

The first sentence, plus all this post above this, is very agreeable. However, I think globalization has nothing to do with it. "Fake Masculine men" have existed since time immortal. To me, a man is someone who defines his own sense of purpose for himself - but only within the limits of basic human decency (defined as actions that have no reasonable chance of causing pointless and unnecessary harm to others, or to their dignity).

Pop culture definitions of masculinity - ones that convey certain ideas usually associated with the phrase "Be a Man and ...!"? Ehh ..... ithat's just part of the pop culture bureaucracy of stupid do's and don'ts - ones that stifle the human spirit, creativity, and independent though just as surely as real-world government bureaucracies stifle innovation and initiative with their own pointless do's and don'ts.

In fact, I look beyond masculinity and decide what's right for me. Anything else is just enslaving yourself to popular culture's and society's expectations about what you - as a male - ought to be. What the hell kind of manliness is it to submit to those expectations?

Masculinity is an evolutionary survival mechanism, it's somewhat suppressed in today's culture, the main factor IMO why the west is falling behind. The charismatic dark triad will rise to the top again, it always does, and is still to this day the driving primal force of female sexual selection.

[Nameless Son]

Louis Armstrong once said something like "If you have to ask what jazz is, you ain't never gonna find out."

I'd say something similar goes for masculinity. We can argue over how much masculinity is too much, etc., but we shouldn't have to debate what it is.

But I'm curious... what do our TA women think?

[Óttar]

The charismatic dark triad will rise to the top again, it always does, and is still to this day the driving primal force of female sexual selection.
The dark triad? Sounds like you are about to posit something metaphysical.

Who is really the arbiter of matters, when we must bow to what women desire?

[AussieScott]

The dark triad? Sounds like you are about to posit something metaphysical.

Dark Triad = Machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy.

All charismatic leaders and street wise lads have it.



Who is really the arbiter of matters, when we must bow to what women desire?

Darwinism, evolution, natural selection, harsh environments ect... It's already happened not much you can do but accept it. In all probabilities the same evolutionary factors will come to pass in the future again. The weak are always weeded out.

Bring on Rangnarok. :):thumb001::D

Men do not bow down to women. Women chose men with the most successful characteristics so as to pass on the genes.

As for myself I'm a survivalist and a provider so I get the best of both worlds.:wink

[derLowe]

Dark Triad = Machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy.

All charismatic leaders and street wise lads have it.



Darwinism, evolution, natural selection, harsh environments ect... It's already happened not much you can do but accept it. In all probabilities the same evolutionary factors will come to pass in the future again. The weak are always weeded out.

Bring on Rangnarok. :):thumb001::D

Men do not bow down to women. Women chose men with the most successful characteristics so as to pass on the genes.

As for myself I'm a survivalist and a provider so I get the best of both worlds.:wink

Dark triad, I must remember that term.

Natural selection would not be welcomed by most people on this planet.

[Phil75231]

Masculinity is an evolutionary survival mechanism, it's somewhat suppressed in today's culture, the main factor IMO why the west is falling behind. The charismatic dark triad will rise to the top again, it always does, and is still to this day the driving primal force of female sexual selection.

Are you saying that suppression of "Machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy" are what is causing the west to fall behind?

Beyond this, we do not live in a pre-agricultural environment any more. In fact, with the advent of modern technology, especially weapons of mass destruction plus the concentration of power in fewer and fewer hands - I'd say that the Dark Triad of traits is maladaptive and even so far as being a long term threat to human survival on this planet. While an alpha male in 20,000 BC could kill half a dozen people at most, today's alphas (and even upper betas) could wreck the lives and even outright kill millions, if not billions. IOW, whatever advantages the dark triad had in the past, it's pretty clear that is does more harm than good to a species at an industrial level of development. The highter the level of technology, the more true this becomes.

So if you are right, then, given my studies of history, I'll give Homo sapiens 1000 more years at most (if we're lucky). Some technologies should just not be developed, for we're not civilized enough to handle them. (e.g. Imagine if we developed nuclear weapons by the 17th century).

[AussieScott]

Are you saying that suppression of "Machiavellianism, narcissism, psychopathy" are what is causing the west to fall behind?

Beyond this, we do not live in a pre-agricultural environment any more. In fact, with the advent of modern technology, especially weapons of mass destruction plus the concentration of power in fewer and fewer hands - I'd say that the Dark Triad of traits is maladaptive and even so far as being a long term threat to human survival on this planet. While an alpha male in 20,000 BC could kill half a dozen people at most, today's alphas (and even upper betas) could wreck the lives and even outright kill millions, if not billions. IOW, whatever advantages the dark triad had in the past, it's pretty clear that is does more harm than good to a species at an industrial level of development. The highter the level of technology, the more true this becomes.

So if you are right, then, given my studies of history, I'll give Homo sapiens 1000 more years at most (if we're lucky). Some technologies should just not be developed, for we're not civilized enough to handle them. (e.g. Imagine if we developed nuclear weapons by the 17th century).

There is always a balance of female hypergamy that comes into play, or do you forget man and woman is a partnership, not just in immediate life, but also civilisation. Majority will always rule. The balance in the west is by far swung in favour of a degenerate female hypergamy, an initial indication of a civilisation in decay, created by our own civilisational system. I'm not sure if this decay will catch up to the rising Eastern countries, we'll find out soon enough.

Just ask yourself why is the East, China, slowly but surely over taking the West? How many single males are in China and India...? How fierce is that 'Dark Triad' competition? In the west, many men are just dropping out of the competition, China and India has reserves still.

Sorry Phil, the lower betas and feminist men will always be at the bottom of the rung, propping the system up, rather then leading it. At least our geeks may provide some innovation, that may create the so called service and technological economy. Though it seems pretty useless when China steals that intellectual property, via hacking and bribing.

Our Alpha female PM that is leading Australia at the moment is doing a very poor job of imitation if you ask me, the polls do not lie, unlike the crafted propaganda of the political masters we all serve. Women just can't pull off the charismatic 'Dark triad', like a man can. Women look like liars when they attempt it, Australia's PM's nick name is "Juliar". Her predecessor on the other hand is loved by the people, using the exact same policies, he is just more efficient, charismatic and intellectually superior at selling and implementing such policy. K Rudd has the gift of the gab, so to speak.

If the world was not ready for nuclear weapons we would of perished a long time ago. Neutrino bombs were banned from mass production and use, for a reason. You never know, a disaster could be man made, or nature, from far left or right field...Either way Humans have survived a bottle neck before, a disaster that actually mimicked a nuclear winter, but occurred from nature. Most of our ancestors could be gone in 50 to 200 years, if there's a large enough volcanic eruption or asteroid collision.

Thankfully though our 'Dark triad' men will pull us through such an event.

Really the only way Humans will survive into the next few centuries or millennia, is if we manage to escape this rock, and expand into the stars...

[Phil75231]

My response to Aussie is best left for a new thread, to keep this thread coherent:

Alpha-ness, Advanced Technology & Prospects for Human Survival (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42880)