Outdate map

[Flashball]

Here it is shown that the Sardinians have less WHG than people from Bergamo and Greek...:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/530x530q90/r/922/8IyQss.jpg

However, here, the Western Hunter Gatherer contribution, according to the different groups (I took the 11 Sardinian samples, few indeed, and all the other samples from the North, Center and South of Italy), is more important on 8 of the 11 Sardinian samples compared to samples from northern Italy (and Bergamo)...
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/1422x800q90/r/924/BiYiYt.png

[Flashball]

Greeks and Sardinians
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/942x530q90/r/924/Dh1o5Z.png

[vbnetkhio]

Here it is shown that the Sardinians have less WHG than people from Bergamo and Greek...:
https://imagizer.imageshack.com/v2/530x530q90/r/922/8IyQss.jpg


one of the reasons is that they used LBK here, which already had some WHG admixture compared to Anatolia_N.

[Flashball]

one of the reasons is that they used LBK here, which already had some WHG admixture compared to Anatolia_N.

This is not a good way, the ancestral populations on the Global 25 is clearer and shows that the Sardinians have more WHGs than the Greeks and some Northern Italians, which makes sense ... they are descended from a population (nuragh) who have a score between 15 and 20% of WHG !!! More than some Englishmen and more than my father.

Also, Anatolian hunter gather has already Western Hunter Gatherer:
1 West_Med 46.28
2 East_Med 24.06
3 Atlantic 18.82
4 North_Sea 5.07
5 Red_Sea 4.92
6 Baltic 0.86

[Demhat]

The Haak et all paper is not outdated but correct, most of the WHG like ancestry (Dzudzuana like) is via the Farmers. Just allot of people who got clearly effected by some amateur calculators started to think otherwise. I don't know what the source for that second image is but I would trust the work of professionals over amateurs anyday.

Edit: nevermind the results between both are quite similar anyways with ~5-10% differences, probably errors due to calculator effect on the amateur side.

[Flashball]

The Haak et all paper is not outdated but correct, most of the WHG like ancestry (Dzudzuana like) is via the Farmers. Just allot of people who got clearly effected by some amateur calculators started to think otherwise. I don't know what the source for that second image is but I would trust the work of professionals over amateurs anyday.

Edit: nevermind the results between both are quite similar anyways with ~5-10% differences, probably errors due to calculator effect on the amateur side.

This is not a "amateur" thing.

It's non sens to think Greek has more WHG that Sardinians. You talk about "work professionals" Read Genetic study about Sardinians, they talk about the Western Hunter Gatherer (pretty high in Ogliastra) >>> https://www.nature.com/articles/s41467-020-14523-6

I quote: "Our qpAdm analysis further shows that the WHG ancestry proportion, in a model of admixture with Neolithic Anatolia, remains stable at 17 ± 2% through the Nuragic period (Table 1A)."

"Finally, we assessed our results in the context of spatial substructure within modern Sardinia, as previous studies have suggested elevated levels of WHG and EEF ancestry in Ogliastra"

"We documented fine-scale variation in the ancient population ancestry proportions across the island. The most remote and interior areas of Sardinia – the Gennargentu Massif covering the central and eastern regions, including the present day province of Ogliastra, are thought to have been the least exposed to contact with outside populations27,29,50. We find pre-Neolithic hunter-gatherer and Neolithic farmer ancestry are enriched in this region of isolation. Under the premise that Ogliastra has been more buffered from recent immigration to the island, one interpretation of the result is that the early populations of Sardinia were an admixture of the two ancestries, rather than the pre-Neolithic ancestry arriving via later migrations from the mainland. Such admixture could have occurred principally on the island or on the mainland prior to the hypothesized Neolithic era influx to the island. Under the alternative premise that Ogliastra is simply a highly isolated region that has differentiated within Sardinia due to genetic drift, the result would be interpreted as genetic drift leading to a structured pattern of pre-Neolithic ancestry across the island, in an overall background of high Neolithic ancestry." >>> https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6168346/

[PaleoEuropean]

That map is so old also one has to question what their sample size was and the distribution. I personally have spoken out against before as well.

[vbnetkhio]

The Haak et all paper is not outdated but correct, most of the WHG like ancestry (Dzudzuana like) is via the Farmers. Just allot of people who got clearly effected by some amateur calculators started to think otherwise. I don't know what the source for that second image is but I would trust the work of professionals over amateurs anyday.

Edit: nevermind the results between both are quite similar anyways with ~5-10% differences, probably errors due to calculator effect on the amateur side.

why would LBK be a good choice for modelling all of Eruope? It has too much WHG for Greeks, and too little for Scots, that's pretty confusing.

Wouldn't it be the best to use Anatolia_N (pure EEF) and Scotland_N (the farmers with most WHG), to cover for that farmer-mediated WHG you mention.

also some CHG/Iran_N is needed in there. it's significant in Italy and the Balkans.

[Dimitri159]

This is not a good way, the ancestral populations on the Global 25 is clearer and shows that the Sardinians have more WHGs than the Greeks and some Northern Italians, which makes sense ... they are descended from a population (nuragh) who have a score between 15 and 20% of WHG !!! More than some Englishmen and more than my father.

Also, Anatolian hunter gather has already Western Hunter Gatherer:
1 West_Med 46.28
2 East_Med 24.06
3 Atlantic 18.82
4 North_Sea 5.07
5 Red_Sea 4.92
6 Baltic 0.86

Not only Sardinians but also Iberians. There’s absolutely NO WAY modern Iberians have more Anatolian Farmer ancestry & less WHG than Greeks, Albanians and Italians, considering the fact that one of their largest ancient ancestral component are likely Romanized Celts.

[Petalpusher]

one of the reasons is that they used LBK here, which already had some WHG admixture compared to Anatolia_N.

It's just that, but 10 years from now, people still won't get it. Same thing happens in Yamnaya too, there s some basal, CHG and whatever in there. So it's an outdated way to model Europeans, not incorrect but often random/incomplete and very likely some of those fit wouldn't get a "good distance", they are not showing them but they are certainly not all @0.00 either.

[Ibericus]

Its from 2013 so yes its outdated. Those numbers are wrong nowadays.