Central-southern Italians are the Europeans of more Middle Eastern origin

[manu15151513]

About 63-69% of the ancestors of central-southern Italians before the Neolithic migrations were in the Middle East:
105441

[Leto]

I don't know much but I think Umbria might be the most Italic part of Italy. It's a small and landlocked region, partially mountainous. Neither Northern, nor Southern. Are there any genuine DNA samples from there?

[manu15151513]

I don't know much but I think Umbria might be the most Italic part of Italy. It's a small and landlocked region, partially mountainous. Neither Northern, nor Southern. Are there any genuine DNA samples from there?

The Umbrians have about 25-30% of their ancestors outside Italy 3300 years ago as a consequence of the successive Osco-Umbrian migrations mainly. So in this sense only about 27% of the origin is original Italic and therefore not by assimilation of pre-existing peoples. With the exception of the Sardinians, those who have had ancestors in Italian territory for generations are probably the Calabrians (Only about 18-20% of their ancestors is due to Indo-European migrations such as Osco-Umbrian, Latin-Faliscan, Greeks and the like, therefore the About 80 -82% of their ancestors were already in Italy before the Indo-European expansion, contrary to about 70% of the Umbrians.

[Arch Hades]

That Anatolian farmer component being that high in North Africa is total bullshit.

Yeah, the folks of the Italian Peninsula today have well over half their ancestry in Anatolia circa 7,000 BC.

[manu15151513]

That Anatolian farmer component being that high in North Africa is total bullshit.

Yeah, the folks of the Italian Peninsula today have well over half their ancestry in Anatolia circa 7,000 BC.

No, it is not at all. Also on various calculator such as Eurogenes K13 emerges. North Africans are essentially descended from hunter-gatherers present from well before the Neolithic in North Africa and from Neolithic farmers of Middle Eastern origin who have spread agriculture. To a very minor extent they are descended from Sub-Saharanians, Phoenicians and Arabs responsible for the spread of Islam. From what I have seen in general about 8-9% of the ancestors are Muslim Arab migrants of the Middle Ages and about 1-2% of the ancestors are Phoenicians, so about 10% of that Anatolian component probably comes from them, and therefore in general about 50% of their ancestors are directly attributable to the descendants of Middle Eastern farmers. Differently from the Italians, however, their Neolithic origins are much more archaic: the Italians owe about 75% of anatolian farmer to Middle Eastern farmers who arrived in the late Chalcolithic in Italy, mainly responsible for the very high caucasian-hunther-gathers heritage and today's j2a diffusion with ancestral origin of the Kura-Araxes culture, while the North Africans derive almost totally that 50% of Anatolian farmer directed by the very first Levantine Neolithic farmers uncontaminated by the migrations that will take place around the Chalcolithic that will enrich the Levant and southern Europe with j2 and Chg. In that image it is called "anatolia" because it is specifically targeted for Europeans and Neolithic migrations in Europe have essentially made their way to Anatolia, but in the North African case there is nothing Anatolian but Levantine.

[Flashball]

Check out the samples of the "North Italians, Center and South Italians" on the Global 25, apart from the Sardinians, none reach 80% of purely EEF.

It is much more complex. The Indo-European contribution is significant in the North, the Center and the South compared to the Sardinians, but the difference is that the North has more conserved the autochthonous contributions (preindo-European + Western Hunter Gatherer) with the central sardinians, than the center and the south , who received more influxes of Iran and Caucasus farmer + levant neolithic mixed with indo-european (but few WHG); but depending on the place and the village of central Italy, there was less influx of these three "populations" that I have just mentioned, which is why we still notice a distance between many part "central italy" and the south of italy.

North Africans have between 10 and 20 percent Negro blood, which is indigenous, and they had more Negro blood in the past than they do today. Which is attested by genetic studies. Nothing new, Adamms will tell you the exact same thing (he is Moroccan).

[manu15151513]

Check out the samples of the "North Italians, Center and South Italians" on the Global 25, apart from the Sardinians, none reach 80% of purely EEF.

It is much more complex. The Indo-European contribution is significant in the North, the Center and the South compared to the Sardinians, but the difference is that the North has more conserved the autochthonous contributions (preindo-European + Western Hunter Gatherer) with the central sardinians, than the center and the south , who received more influxes of Iran and Caucasus farmer + levant neolithic mixed with indo-european (but few WHG); but depending on the place and the village of central Italy, there was less influx of these three "populations" that I have just mentioned, which is why we still notice a distance between many part "central italy" and the south of italy.

North Africans have between 10 and 20 percent Negro blood, which is indigenous, and they had more Negro blood in the past than they do today. Which is attested by genetic studies. Nothing new, Adamms will tell you the exact same thing (he is Moroccan).

EEF has a very significant whg component. it is an excellent proxy for the first European Neolithic farmers, who having mixed with the pre-existing peoples were similar to the Sardinians, not of the original Middle Eastern ancestors resulting from the Neolithic migrations, which are well represented by my map. About 25-30% of the ancestors of central Italians were out of Italy 3300 years ago as a consequence of the Osco-Umbrian Indo-Europeans, Latin-Faliscans, Gauls and Protogals and so on, but for the northerners it reaches 35-40%; but this also includes all the offspring eef absorbed. If we assume (and it is reasonable) that the original Indo-Europeans had 37-40% ane, given that today's northern and central Italians have about 8.5% of ane 8.5 * 2.5 = 21-22% of original Indo-European ancestry about the same for Northern Italians and Central Italians (21-22% of ancestors yamnaya). In the Italian case, the chg inheritance is largely Neolithic (not for the Sardinians though); So the remaining 78-79% are eef. This is totally in accordance with this map as well: https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Neolithic_farmer_admixture.png

[Leto]

Italian with ancestry from Lazio, Marche and Abruzzo

North_Atlantic 22.69 Pct
Baltic 11.44 Pct
West_Med 21.97 Pct
West_Asian 15.7 Pct
East_Med 22.15 Pct
Red_Sea 4.42 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.78 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.73 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.11 Pct

Distance to: Massimo
5.77085782 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
5.88636560 Greek_Western-Thrace
5.92752056 Greek_West_Macedonia
6.56777740 IT_Marche
6.67436139 IT_Lazio
6.78762845 IT_Umbria
6.80446912 Italian
6.87992733 Greek_Northeast
7.12292777 IT_Romagna
7.43292675 Greek
7.66484834 Greek_Central
7.72705636 Greek_Athens
7.76871450 Greek_Thessaly
7.89597366 Greek_Peloponnese
8.05235990 IT_Basilicata
8.11147336 Albanian_Tosk
8.13277935 IT_Abruzzo
8.13319740 Albanian
8.38208805 Albanian_Gheg
8.38902855 Greek_Cyclades

Distance to: Massimo
2.02612369 18.20% Adygei + 81.80% IT_Tuscan
2.04085146 84.60% IT_Romagna + 15.40% Kabardin
2.09721230 15.40% Balkar + 84.60% IT_Romagna
2.10843070 85.80% IT_Romagna + 14.20% North_Ossetian
2.15182260 15.00% Adygei + 85.00% IT_Romagna
2.16196483 85.60% IT_Romagna + 14.40% Ossetian
2.21544220 82.60% IT_Tuscan + 17.40% North_Ossetian
2.26729976 77.20% France_Corsica + 22.80% Lezgin
2.27230808 80.00% IT_Tuscan + 20.00% Kumyk
2.27352133 18.60% Balkar + 81.40% IT_Tuscan
2.29474438 81.40% IT_Tuscan + 18.60% Kabardin
2.29538238 16.60% Georgian + 83.40% IT_Tuscan
2.31905238 14.60% Balkar + 85.40% Italian
2.32159674 85.40% Italian + 14.60% Kabardin
2.33055562 29.80% Greek_Caucasus + 70.20% IT_Piedmont
2.34945900 14.60% Ingush + 85.40% IT_Romagna
2.35531243 14.20% Adygei + 85.80% Italian
2.35892992 86.40% Italian + 13.60% North_Ossetian
2.38771703 23.40% Chechen + 76.60% France_Corsica
2.41084227 86.40% Italian + 13.60% Ossetian


North_Sea 14.62 Pct
Atlantic 14.72 Pct
Baltic 10.19 Pct
Eastern_Euro 0.93 Pct
West_Med 18.61 Pct
West_Asian 15.55 Pct
East_Med 20.22 Pct
Red_Sea 4.18 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.41 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.53 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Distance to: Massimo
6.10517813 Albanian-North
6.91947975 Italy_Marche
7.04828348 Greek_Thessaly
7.33043655 Albanian-South
7.52518881 Kosovo_Albanian
7.93978589 Albanian-Kosovo
8.15514561 Italy_Lazio
8.65153166 Italy_Abruzzo
8.66360851 GR_Peloponese
8.93275993 Tuscan
9.13807420 Albanian-Macedonia
9.29805356 Central_Greek
9.39739385 GR_Macedonia
9.64080909 Italy_Emiliaromagna
9.74450614 Italy_Apulia
9.77271712 Greek
9.97236682 Italy_Tuscany
9.97554009 Sicily_Syracuse
9.99904495 East_Sicilian
10.32155027 Sicily_Trapani

Distance to: Massimo
4.48463202 86.20% Italy_Lazio + 13.80% North_Ossetian
4.76248610 14.40% Balkar + 85.60% Italy_Lazio
4.80076967 85.40% Italy_Lazio + 14.60% Kabardin
4.83823752 89.60% Italy_Marche + 10.40% North_Ossetian
4.88320677 14.00% Adygei + 86.00% Italy_Lazio
4.93239453 86.60% Italy_Lazio + 13.40% Ossetian
4.94927338 13.60% Chechen + 86.40% Italy_Lazio
5.02791382 89.00% Italy_Marche + 11.00% Kabardin
5.03161133 10.80% Balkar + 89.20% Italy_Marche
5.06010240 6.60% Abhkasian + 93.40% Albanian-North
5.07722497 92.80% Albanian-North + 7.20% Georgian
5.09021682 10.40% Adygei + 89.60% Italy_Marche
5.15631405 92.80% Albanian-North + 7.20% Ossetian
5.17129479 15.80% Georgian + 84.20% Italy_Emiliaromagna
5.17564881 82.80% Italy_Emiliaromagna + 17.20% Turk_Meskhetian
5.17877509 17.40% Georgian_Laz + 82.60% Italy_Emiliaromagna
5.17980868 10.00% Chechen + 90.00% Italy_Marche
5.19831583 11.60% Abhkasian + 88.40% Italy_Lazio
5.19883249 93.00% Albanian-North + 7.00% North_Ossetian
5.20850157 14.40% Abhkasian + 85.60% Italy_Emiliaromagna


Gedrosia 7.33 Pct
Siberian -
Northwest_African 2.22 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.34 Pct
Atlantic_Med 28.45 Pct
North_European 21.42 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 9.66 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 30.57 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: Massimo
3.24790702 Greek_Central
3.47185829 Greek_Peloponnese
3.79464096 Greek_Thrace
3.99822461 Albanian
4.14726416 Italian_Lazio
4.24679879 Greek_Athens
4.32289255 Greek_Thessaly
4.97505779 Greek_Thessaloniki
5.53516793 Italian_Marche
5.85246956 Italian_Apulia
5.97679680 Italian_Abruzzo
6.14486778 Bulgarian_Thrace
6.61359963 Greek_Foca
6.82126821 Albanian_Kosovo
7.09929574 Greek_Lemnos
7.23671887 Italian_Romagna
7.41876000 Turk_Makedonya
9.01463810 Italian_Campania
9.19227393 Italian_Sicily
10.15815928 Italian_Tuscany

Distance to: Massimo
0.65075794 71.00% Italian_Abruzzo + 29.00% Macedonian
0.70691918 30.20% Bulgarian_West + 69.80% Italian_Abruzzo
0.72908161 40.00% Bavarian_German + 60.00% Greek_Rhodes
0.74768817 36.60% Greek_Macedonia + 63.40% Italian_Abruzzo
0.76185169 70.00% Italian_Abruzzo + 30.00% MD_South
0.77129198 31.60% Bulgarian_Central + 68.40% Italian_Abruzzo
0.79248950 71.60% Italian_Abruzzo + 28.40% Romanian
0.83299870 19.40% Bosnian + 80.60% Italian_Abruzzo
0.87111825 74.00% Italian_Abruzzo + 26.00% Montenegrin
0.89901634 77.80% Italian_Abruzzo + 22.20% Serb
0.90840229 77.80% Italian_Abruzzo + 22.20% MD_Center
0.90998685 69.80% Italian_Abruzzo + 30.20% Pomak_Bulgaria
0.92181962 38.60% Bavarian_German + 61.40% Greek_Kos
0.92471909 18.60% Croat + 81.40% Italian_Abruzzo
0.94206226 80.60% Italian_Abruzzo + 19.40% MD_North
0.94281051 87.80% Italian_Abruzzo + 12.20% PL_Mazovia
0.98166960 36.00% Bulgarian_East + 64.00% Italian_Abruzzo
0.98487587 12.00% Belorussian + 88.00% Italian_Abruzzo
0.99958221 87.20% Italian_Abruzzo + 12.80% Ukrainian
1.00616826 88.00% Italian_Abruzzo + 12.00% Russian_Smolensk

[manu15151513]

Italian with ancestry from Lazio, Marche and Abruzzo

North_Atlantic 22.69 Pct
Baltic 11.44 Pct
West_Med 21.97 Pct
West_Asian 15.7 Pct
East_Med 22.15 Pct
Red_Sea 4.42 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.78 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.73 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.11 Pct

Distance to: Massimo
5.77085782 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
5.88636560 Greek_Western-Thrace
5.92752056 Greek_West_Macedonia
6.56777740 IT_Marche
6.67436139 IT_Lazio
6.78762845 IT_Umbria
6.80446912 Italian
6.87992733 Greek_Northeast
7.12292777 IT_Romagna
7.43292675 Greek
7.66484834 Greek_Central
7.72705636 Greek_Athens
7.76871450 Greek_Thessaly
7.89597366 Greek_Peloponnese
8.05235990 IT_Basilicata
8.11147336 Albanian_Tosk
8.13277935 IT_Abruzzo
8.13319740 Albanian
8.38208805 Albanian_Gheg
8.38902855 Greek_Cyclades

Distance to: Massimo
2.02612369 18.20% Adygei + 81.80% IT_Tuscan
2.04085146 84.60% IT_Romagna + 15.40% Kabardin
2.09721230 15.40% Balkar + 84.60% IT_Romagna
2.10843070 85.80% IT_Romagna + 14.20% North_Ossetian
2.15182260 15.00% Adygei + 85.00% IT_Romagna
2.16196483 85.60% IT_Romagna + 14.40% Ossetian
2.21544220 82.60% IT_Tuscan + 17.40% North_Ossetian
2.26729976 77.20% France_Corsica + 22.80% Lezgin
2.27230808 80.00% IT_Tuscan + 20.00% Kumyk
2.27352133 18.60% Balkar + 81.40% IT_Tuscan
2.29474438 81.40% IT_Tuscan + 18.60% Kabardin
2.29538238 16.60% Georgian + 83.40% IT_Tuscan
2.31905238 14.60% Balkar + 85.40% Italian
2.32159674 85.40% Italian + 14.60% Kabardin
2.33055562 29.80% Greek_Caucasus + 70.20% IT_Piedmont
2.34945900 14.60% Ingush + 85.40% IT_Romagna
2.35531243 14.20% Adygei + 85.80% Italian
2.35892992 86.40% Italian + 13.60% North_Ossetian
2.38771703 23.40% Chechen + 76.60% France_Corsica
2.41084227 86.40% Italian + 13.60% Ossetian


North_Sea 14.62 Pct
Atlantic 14.72 Pct
Baltic 10.19 Pct
Eastern_Euro 0.93 Pct
West_Med 18.61 Pct
West_Asian 15.55 Pct
East_Med 20.22 Pct
Red_Sea 4.18 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.41 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.53 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Distance to: Massimo
6.10517813 Albanian-North
6.91947975 Italy_Marche
7.04828348 Greek_Thessaly
7.33043655 Albanian-South
7.52518881 Kosovo_Albanian
7.93978589 Albanian-Kosovo
8.15514561 Italy_Lazio
8.65153166 Italy_Abruzzo
8.66360851 GR_Peloponese
8.93275993 Tuscan
9.13807420 Albanian-Macedonia
9.29805356 Central_Greek
9.39739385 GR_Macedonia
9.64080909 Italy_Emiliaromagna
9.74450614 Italy_Apulia
9.77271712 Greek
9.97236682 Italy_Tuscany
9.97554009 Sicily_Syracuse
9.99904495 East_Sicilian
10.32155027 Sicily_Trapani

Distance to: Massimo
4.48463202 86.20% Italy_Lazio + 13.80% North_Ossetian
4.76248610 14.40% Balkar + 85.60% Italy_Lazio
4.80076967 85.40% Italy_Lazio + 14.60% Kabardin
4.83823752 89.60% Italy_Marche + 10.40% North_Ossetian
4.88320677 14.00% Adygei + 86.00% Italy_Lazio
4.93239453 86.60% Italy_Lazio + 13.40% Ossetian
4.94927338 13.60% Chechen + 86.40% Italy_Lazio
5.02791382 89.00% Italy_Marche + 11.00% Kabardin
5.03161133 10.80% Balkar + 89.20% Italy_Marche
5.06010240 6.60% Abhkasian + 93.40% Albanian-North
5.07722497 92.80% Albanian-North + 7.20% Georgian
5.09021682 10.40% Adygei + 89.60% Italy_Marche
5.15631405 92.80% Albanian-North + 7.20% Ossetian
5.17129479 15.80% Georgian + 84.20% Italy_Emiliaromagna
5.17564881 82.80% Italy_Emiliaromagna + 17.20% Turk_Meskhetian
5.17877509 17.40% Georgian_Laz + 82.60% Italy_Emiliaromagna
5.17980868 10.00% Chechen + 90.00% Italy_Marche
5.19831583 11.60% Abhkasian + 88.40% Italy_Lazio
5.19883249 93.00% Albanian-North + 7.00% North_Ossetian
5.20850157 14.40% Abhkasian + 85.60% Italy_Emiliaromagna


Gedrosia 7.33 Pct
Siberian -
Northwest_African 2.22 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.34 Pct
Atlantic_Med 28.45 Pct
North_European 21.42 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 9.66 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 30.57 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: Massimo
3.24790702 Greek_Central
3.47185829 Greek_Peloponnese
3.79464096 Greek_Thrace
3.99822461 Albanian
4.14726416 Italian_Lazio
4.24679879 Greek_Athens
4.32289255 Greek_Thessaly
4.97505779 Greek_Thessaloniki
5.53516793 Italian_Marche
5.85246956 Italian_Apulia
5.97679680 Italian_Abruzzo
6.14486778 Bulgarian_Thrace
6.61359963 Greek_Foca
6.82126821 Albanian_Kosovo
7.09929574 Greek_Lemnos
7.23671887 Italian_Romagna
7.41876000 Turk_Makedonya
9.01463810 Italian_Campania
9.19227393 Italian_Sicily
10.15815928 Italian_Tuscany

Distance to: Massimo
0.65075794 71.00% Italian_Abruzzo + 29.00% Macedonian
0.70691918 30.20% Bulgarian_West + 69.80% Italian_Abruzzo
0.72908161 40.00% Bavarian_German + 60.00% Greek_Rhodes
0.74768817 36.60% Greek_Macedonia + 63.40% Italian_Abruzzo
0.76185169 70.00% Italian_Abruzzo + 30.00% MD_South
0.77129198 31.60% Bulgarian_Central + 68.40% Italian_Abruzzo
0.79248950 71.60% Italian_Abruzzo + 28.40% Romanian
0.83299870 19.40% Bosnian + 80.60% Italian_Abruzzo
0.87111825 74.00% Italian_Abruzzo + 26.00% Montenegrin
0.89901634 77.80% Italian_Abruzzo + 22.20% Serb
0.90840229 77.80% Italian_Abruzzo + 22.20% MD_Center
0.90998685 69.80% Italian_Abruzzo + 30.20% Pomak_Bulgaria
0.92181962 38.60% Bavarian_German + 61.40% Greek_Kos
0.92471909 18.60% Croat + 81.40% Italian_Abruzzo
0.94206226 80.60% Italian_Abruzzo + 19.40% MD_North
0.94281051 87.80% Italian_Abruzzo + 12.20% PL_Mazovia
0.98166960 36.00% Bulgarian_East + 64.00% Italian_Abruzzo
0.98487587 12.00% Belorussian + 88.00% Italian_Abruzzo
0.99958221 87.20% Italian_Abruzzo + 12.80% Ukrainian
1.00616826 88.00% Italian_Abruzzo + 12.00% Russian_Smolensk

Where specifically would it come from? These are the averages: https://ilsizzi.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/medie-k13.png

[manu15151513]

Italian with ancestry from Lazio, Marche and Abruzzo

North_Atlantic 22.69 Pct
Baltic 11.44 Pct
West_Med 21.97 Pct
West_Asian 15.7 Pct
East_Med 22.15 Pct
Red_Sea 4.42 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian 0.78 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.73 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.11 Pct

Distance to: Massimo
5.77085782 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
5.88636560 Greek_Western-Thrace
5.92752056 Greek_West_Macedonia
6.56777740 IT_Marche
6.67436139 IT_Lazio
6.78762845 IT_Umbria
6.80446912 Italian
6.87992733 Greek_Northeast
7.12292777 IT_Romagna
7.43292675 Greek
7.66484834 Greek_Central
7.72705636 Greek_Athens
7.76871450 Greek_Thessaly
7.89597366 Greek_Peloponnese
8.05235990 IT_Basilicata
8.11147336 Albanian_Tosk
8.13277935 IT_Abruzzo
8.13319740 Albanian
8.38208805 Albanian_Gheg
8.38902855 Greek_Cyclades

Distance to: Massimo
2.02612369 18.20% Adygei + 81.80% IT_Tuscan
2.04085146 84.60% IT_Romagna + 15.40% Kabardin
2.09721230 15.40% Balkar + 84.60% IT_Romagna
2.10843070 85.80% IT_Romagna + 14.20% North_Ossetian
2.15182260 15.00% Adygei + 85.00% IT_Romagna
2.16196483 85.60% IT_Romagna + 14.40% Ossetian
2.21544220 82.60% IT_Tuscan + 17.40% North_Ossetian
2.26729976 77.20% France_Corsica + 22.80% Lezgin
2.27230808 80.00% IT_Tuscan + 20.00% Kumyk
2.27352133 18.60% Balkar + 81.40% IT_Tuscan
2.29474438 81.40% IT_Tuscan + 18.60% Kabardin
2.29538238 16.60% Georgian + 83.40% IT_Tuscan
2.31905238 14.60% Balkar + 85.40% Italian
2.32159674 85.40% Italian + 14.60% Kabardin
2.33055562 29.80% Greek_Caucasus + 70.20% IT_Piedmont
2.34945900 14.60% Ingush + 85.40% IT_Romagna
2.35531243 14.20% Adygei + 85.80% Italian
2.35892992 86.40% Italian + 13.60% North_Ossetian
2.38771703 23.40% Chechen + 76.60% France_Corsica
2.41084227 86.40% Italian + 13.60% Ossetian


North_Sea 14.62 Pct
Atlantic 14.72 Pct
Baltic 10.19 Pct
Eastern_Euro 0.93 Pct
West_Med 18.61 Pct
West_Asian 15.55 Pct
East_Med 20.22 Pct
Red_Sea 4.18 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.41 Pct
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.53 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Distance to: Massimo
6.10517813 Albanian-North
6.91947975 Italy_Marche
7.04828348 Greek_Thessaly
7.33043655 Albanian-South
7.52518881 Kosovo_Albanian
7.93978589 Albanian-Kosovo
8.15514561 Italy_Lazio
8.65153166 Italy_Abruzzo
8.66360851 GR_Peloponese
8.93275993 Tuscan
9.13807420 Albanian-Macedonia
9.29805356 Central_Greek
9.39739385 GR_Macedonia
9.64080909 Italy_Emiliaromagna
9.74450614 Italy_Apulia
9.77271712 Greek
9.97236682 Italy_Tuscany
9.97554009 Sicily_Syracuse
9.99904495 East_Sicilian
10.32155027 Sicily_Trapani

Distance to: Massimo
4.48463202 86.20% Italy_Lazio + 13.80% North_Ossetian
4.76248610 14.40% Balkar + 85.60% Italy_Lazio
4.80076967 85.40% Italy_Lazio + 14.60% Kabardin
4.83823752 89.60% Italy_Marche + 10.40% North_Ossetian
4.88320677 14.00% Adygei + 86.00% Italy_Lazio
4.93239453 86.60% Italy_Lazio + 13.40% Ossetian
4.94927338 13.60% Chechen + 86.40% Italy_Lazio
5.02791382 89.00% Italy_Marche + 11.00% Kabardin
5.03161133 10.80% Balkar + 89.20% Italy_Marche
5.06010240 6.60% Abhkasian + 93.40% Albanian-North
5.07722497 92.80% Albanian-North + 7.20% Georgian
5.09021682 10.40% Adygei + 89.60% Italy_Marche
5.15631405 92.80% Albanian-North + 7.20% Ossetian
5.17129479 15.80% Georgian + 84.20% Italy_Emiliaromagna
5.17564881 82.80% Italy_Emiliaromagna + 17.20% Turk_Meskhetian
5.17877509 17.40% Georgian_Laz + 82.60% Italy_Emiliaromagna
5.17980868 10.00% Chechen + 90.00% Italy_Marche
5.19831583 11.60% Abhkasian + 88.40% Italy_Lazio
5.19883249 93.00% Albanian-North + 7.00% North_Ossetian
5.20850157 14.40% Abhkasian + 85.60% Italy_Emiliaromagna


Gedrosia 7.33 Pct
Siberian -
Northwest_African 2.22 Pct
Southeast_Asian 0.34 Pct
Atlantic_Med 28.45 Pct
North_European 21.42 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 9.66 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 30.57 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: Massimo
3.24790702 Greek_Central
3.47185829 Greek_Peloponnese
3.79464096 Greek_Thrace
3.99822461 Albanian
4.14726416 Italian_Lazio
4.24679879 Greek_Athens
4.32289255 Greek_Thessaly
4.97505779 Greek_Thessaloniki
5.53516793 Italian_Marche
5.85246956 Italian_Apulia
5.97679680 Italian_Abruzzo
6.14486778 Bulgarian_Thrace
6.61359963 Greek_Foca
6.82126821 Albanian_Kosovo
7.09929574 Greek_Lemnos
7.23671887 Italian_Romagna
7.41876000 Turk_Makedonya
9.01463810 Italian_Campania
9.19227393 Italian_Sicily
10.15815928 Italian_Tuscany

Distance to: Massimo
0.65075794 71.00% Italian_Abruzzo + 29.00% Macedonian
0.70691918 30.20% Bulgarian_West + 69.80% Italian_Abruzzo
0.72908161 40.00% Bavarian_German + 60.00% Greek_Rhodes
0.74768817 36.60% Greek_Macedonia + 63.40% Italian_Abruzzo
0.76185169 70.00% Italian_Abruzzo + 30.00% MD_South
0.77129198 31.60% Bulgarian_Central + 68.40% Italian_Abruzzo
0.79248950 71.60% Italian_Abruzzo + 28.40% Romanian
0.83299870 19.40% Bosnian + 80.60% Italian_Abruzzo
0.87111825 74.00% Italian_Abruzzo + 26.00% Montenegrin
0.89901634 77.80% Italian_Abruzzo + 22.20% Serb
0.90840229 77.80% Italian_Abruzzo + 22.20% MD_Center
0.90998685 69.80% Italian_Abruzzo + 30.20% Pomak_Bulgaria
0.92181962 38.60% Bavarian_German + 61.40% Greek_Kos
0.92471909 18.60% Croat + 81.40% Italian_Abruzzo
0.94206226 80.60% Italian_Abruzzo + 19.40% MD_North
0.94281051 87.80% Italian_Abruzzo + 12.20% PL_Mazovia
0.98166960 36.00% Bulgarian_East + 64.00% Italian_Abruzzo
0.98487587 12.00% Belorussian + 88.00% Italian_Abruzzo
0.99958221 87.20% Italian_Abruzzo + 12.80% Ukrainian
1.00616826 88.00% Italian_Abruzzo + 12.00% Russian_Smolensk

Where specifically would it come from? These are the averages: https://ilsizzi.files.wordpress.com/2019/03/medie-k13.png

[Hamilcar]

No, it is not at all. Also on various calculator such as Eurogenes K13 emerges. North Africans are essentially descended from hunter-gatherers present from well before the Neolithic in North Africa and from Neolithic farmers of Middle Eastern origin who have spread agriculture. To a very minor extent they are descended from Sub-Saharanians, Phoenicians and Arabs responsible for the spread of Islam. From what I have seen in general about 8-9% of the ancestors are Muslim Arab migrants of the Middle Ages and about 1-2% of the ancestors are Phoenicians, so about 10% of that Anatolian component probably comes from them, and therefore in general about 50% of their ancestors are directly attributable to the descendants of Middle Eastern farmers. Differently from the Italians, however, their Neolithic origins are much more archaic: the Italians owe about 75% of anatolian farmer to Middle Eastern farmers who arrived in the late Chalcolithic in Italy, mainly responsible for the very high caucasian-hunther-gathers heritage and today's j2a diffusion with ancestral origin of the Kura-Araxes culture, while the North Africans derive almost totally that 50% of Anatolian farmer directed by the very first Levantine Neolithic farmers uncontaminated by the migrations that will take place around the Chalcolithic that will enrich the Levant and southern Europe with j2 and Chg. In that image it is called "anatolia" because it is specifically targeted for Europeans and Neolithic migrations in Europe have essentially made their way to Anatolia, but in the North African case there is nothing Anatolian but Levantine.

that's simply false and he's right : north africans are around 40-45% EEF certainly not 50-60% and this component came during the late neolithic from iberia not from the levant. Moreover natufian ancestry was already present in north africa way before the arab conquest (probably introduced by capsians)

[manu15151513]

that's simply false and he's right : north africans are around 40-45% EEF certainly not 50-60% and this component came during the late neolithic from iberia not from the levant. Moreover natufian ancestry was already present in north africa way before the arab conquest (probably introduced by capsians)

Can you attach data to support what you say? That anatolian farmer does indeed certainly contain a lot of Natufian ancestors, and so the truly Neolithic ancestors may be minor. When I said ancestors originating from the Middle East I did not mean directly from the Middle East, it could also have passed through Iberia. Do you have sources?

[Cristiano viejo]

he looks darker than calabrians


you wish, Arab.
Also dont post pics of others with no permission, faggot.

[Hamilcar]

Can you attach data to support what you say? That anatolian farmer does indeed certainly contain a lot of Natufian ancestors, and so the truly Neolithic ancestors may be minor. When I said ancestors originating from the Middle East I did not mean directly from the Middle East, it could also have passed through Iberia. Do you have sources?


By 3,000 BCE, a continuity in the Neolithic spread brought Mediterranean-like ancestry to the Maghreb, most likely from Iberia. Other archaeological remains, such as African elephant ivory and ostrich eggs found in Iberian sites, confirm the existence of contacts and exchange networks through both sides of the Gibraltar strait at this time. Our analyses strongly support that at least some of the European ancestry observed today in North Africa is related to prehistoric migrations, and local Berber populations were already admixed with Europeans before the Roman conquest. Furthermore, additional European/Iberian ancestry could have reached the Maghreb after KEB people; this scenario is supported by the presence of Iberian-like Bell-Beaker pottery in more recent stratigraphic layers of IAM and KEB caves. Future paleogenomic efforts in North Africa will further disentangle the complex history of migrations that forged the ancestry of the admixed populations we observe today.

https://www.pnas.org/content/115/26/6774#sec-2

[JamesBond007]

he looks darker than calabrians

https://postimg.cc/qh5dWVxv

My skin is 'whiter' than most Germans with the only possible exceptions the minority of Saxons in northern Germany. :picard2:

Germans are retarded they worship the dumb blonde hair blue eyed farmer blockhead warrior type as if that is he only kind of 'Germanic' :

https://eurogenes.blogspot.com/2018/09/celtic-vs-germanic-europe.html

https://i.postimg.cc/vTgWjPwQ/custom.png

https://i.postimg.cc/fywTtM3m/2020-12-17-174518.jpg


Swarthy Germans :

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/Ulf_Kirsten_2019.jpg

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/3194df99d3d5db8e87c2bcae45df3deae8618914/17_156_2150_1290/master/2150.jpg

https://img.bundesliga.com/tachyon/sites/2/2018/12/775189207SF030_FC_Bayern_Mu.jpg?crop=1848px,184px, 3257px,1836px

https://media.npr.org/assets/img/2020/06/23/ap_20019227130616-0acc759bb2b9a532a8adb63e72dc62b249eca359-s800-c85.jpg

[Cristiano viejo]

you're the terroni of europe
We are not Italians.


My skin is 'whiter' than most Germans with the only possible exceptions the minority of Saxons in northern Germany. :picard2:

Dont rave.

[Cristiano viejo]

most iberians are on par with terroni, or even worse

Cool story, Arab.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

About 63-69% of the ancestors of central-southern Italians before the Neolithic migrations were in the Middle East:
105441

63-69% clearly seems to me an exaggeration, I reach about 21.4% but it depends on what is meant by "Middle East". These are my results:

EEF,54 (originated in Anatolia)
CHG,14 (originated in the Caucasus)
GANJ_DAREH,11.4 (originated in Iran)
NATUFIAN,10 (originated in Egypt/Levant)
ANE,6.4 (originated in the Eurasian Steppe)
WHG,4.2 (originated in Mainland Europe)

[Hamilcar]

63-69% clearly seems to me an exaggeration, I reach about 21.4% but it depends on what is meant by "Middle East". These are my results:

EEF,54 (originated in Anatolia)
CHG,14 (originated in the Caucasus)
GANJ_DAREH,11.4 (originated in Iran)
NATUFIAN,10 (originated in Egypt/Levant)
ANE,6.4 (originated in the Eurasian Steppe)
WHG,4.2 (originated in Mainland Europe)

Overall it seems Italians have more ME ancestry than Moroccans. Here my results :

Target: Hamilcar_scaled
Distance: 2.9501% / 0.02950090
46.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N
27.4 MAR_Iberomaurusian
12.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
6.6 Yoruba
5.0 Levant_Natufian
1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.4 WHG

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Overall it seems Italians have more ME ancestry than Moroccans. Here my results :

Target: Hamilcar_scaled
Distance: 2.9501% / 0.02950090
46.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N
27.4 MAR_Iberomaurusian
12.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
6.6 Yoruba
5.0 Levant_Natufian
1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.4 WHG

This is roughly the case, but it also depends on which sample is used for the Middle East. If you use Natufan, there is a shorter distance with the Moroccans because it is attracted to Taforalt, while if you use PPNB there is a shorter distance with the Italians because it is more attracted to EEF.


Distance to: Levant_Natufian
0.16338678 Hamilcar_scaled
0.21396709 Ajeje_Brazorf_scaled

Distance to: Levant_PPNB
0.14393595 Ajeje_Brazorf_scaled
0.15846965 Hamilcar_scaled

This however is you using my calculator:

EEF,43.8
TAFORALT,25.8
GANJ_DAREH,7.6
WEST_AFRICA,6.2
LEVANT,6
ANE,4.4
WHG,3.6
CHG,2
BIAKA,0.6

[manu15151513]

63-69% clearly seems to me an exaggeration, I reach about 21.4% but it depends on what is meant by "Middle East". These are my results:

EEF,54 (originated in Anatolia)
CHG,14 (originated in the Caucasus)
GANJ_DAREH,11.4 (originated in Iran)
NATUFIAN,10 (originated in Egypt/Levant)
ANE,6.4 (originated in the Eurasian Steppe)
WHG,4.2 (originated in Mainland Europe)

With Middle Eastern origin I simply mean the percentage of ancestors present in the Middle East before the Neolithic migrations as a consequence of the fact that their descendants had not yet reached European territory. In this sense, the map I published represents very well, it is not an exaggeration, perhaps instead an underestimation because Italians more than other Europeans descend from migrants ancestrally linked to the culture of kura-araxes (homeland of the Italian caucasian-hunther-gathers) and anatolia farmer seems to be more of a good Levantine proxy than a whole Middle Eastern proxy, so perhaps about 67-74% of the ancestors of central and southern Italians were in the Middle East before Neolithic and Chalcolithic expansions. You do not arrive at such a negligible figure, it is absurd, not even the Norwegians arrive at so little. Middle East refers to the Middle East, in the central and southern Italian case about 40-50% of the ancestors should be ancestrally linked to the culture of Kura-araxes and arrived in Italy in the late Chalcolithic bringing j2a and j1, while the more remote Neolithic ancestors (g2a , t, partly l2a1 mainly) something similar to 30%, with a total of ancestors present in the Middle East of about 69-74%

[Ajeje Brazorf]

With Middle Eastern origin I simply mean the percentage of ancestors present in the Middle East before the Neolithic migrations as a consequence of the fact that their descendants had not yet reached European territory.

There, and I mean the same thing.


perhaps about 67-74% of the ancestors of central and southern Italians were in the Middle East before Neolithic and Chalcolithic expansions.

Again, it depends on what you mean by the Middle East. If you include Anatolia (where most of the ancestors of present-day Europeans lived anyway), then your estimate is correct. If you count Anatolia and the Caucasus as the Middle East then I would tell you that as many as 90% of my ancestors lived in the Middle East before the Neolithic period. But if you mean that 70% of your ancestors lived in the Levant or Caucasus then I would disagree.


in the central and southern Italian case about 40-50% of the ancestors should be ancestrally linked to the culture of Kura-araxes and arrived in Italy in the late Chalcolithic bringing j2a and j1, while the more remote Neolithic ancestors (g2a , t, partly l2a1 mainly) something similar to 30%, with a total of ancestors present in the Middle East of about 69-74%

You're pretty confused. Italy and even prehistoric Sicily had nothing to do with Kura-Araxes. Yes, there was probably a migration in the Bronze Age from the Aegean or Anatolia, but this only slightly changed the autosomal aspect of Southern Italy (in this case we have the genomes of Bronze Age Sicilians), which at the time continued to be largely Anatolian Neolithic:

EEF,76.2 (which is a lot)
CHG,7.7 (a negligible amount when you consider that many Europeans have double that)
WHG,6.6
GANJ_DAREH,4.8
ANE,1.9
NATUFIAN,1.6
TAFORALT,0.9

[Tauromachos]

If all South Italians look like you then i believe it is true

[Deusex99]

Overall it seems Italians have more ME ancestry than Moroccans. Here my results :

Target: Hamilcar_scaled
Distance: 2.9501% / 0.02950090
46.0 Anatolia_Barcin_N
27.4 MAR_Iberomaurusian
12.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
6.6 Yoruba
5.0 Levant_Natufian
1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.4 WHG

Iberomaurusian is an hybrid component of 70% Natufian and 30% SSA, so your total amount of ME ancestry Is in the 25-30% range which Is higher than that found in South Italians.

https://i.ibb.co/brxNYRd/image.png

This without considering that modern Middle Easterners have a non trivial amount of SSA admixture.

https://i.ibb.co/9n4n2M9/Screenshot-20210118-113156.jpg

[Arch Hades]

No, it is not at all. Also on various calculator such as Eurogenes K13 emerges. North Africans are essentially descended from hunter-gatherers present from well before the Neolithic in North Africa and from Neolithic farmers of Middle Eastern origin who have spread agriculture. To a very minor extent they are descended from Sub-Saharanians, Phoenicians and Arabs responsible for the spread of Islam. From what I have seen in general about 8-9% of the ancestors are Muslim Arab migrants of the Middle Ages and about 1-2% of the ancestors are Phoenicians, so about 10% of that Anatolian component probably comes from them, and therefore in general about 50% of their ancestors are directly attributable to the descendants of Middle Eastern farmers. Differently from the Italians, however, their Neolithic origins are much more archaic: the Italians owe about 75% of anatolian farmer to Middle Eastern farmers who arrived in the late Chalcolithic in Italy, mainly responsible for the very high caucasian-hunther-gathers heritage and today's j2a diffusion with ancestral origin of the Kura-Araxes culture, while the North Africans derive almost totally that 50% of Anatolian farmer directed by the very first Levantine Neolithic farmers uncontaminated by the migrations that will take place around the Chalcolithic that will enrich the Levant and southern Europe with j2 and Chg. In that image it is called "anatolia" because it is specifically targeted for Europeans and Neolithic migrations in Europe have essentially made their way to Anatolia, but in the North African case there is nothing Anatolian but Levantine.

North Africans are descended predominately from a completely different batch of farmers. From Taforalt-Natufian like farmers. Not Anatolian farmers. They only have around 25% Anatolian farmer ancestry.

[Flashball]

There, and I mean the same thing.



Again, it depends on what you mean by the Middle East. If you include Anatolia (where most of the ancestors of present-day Europeans lived anyway), then your estimate is correct. If you count Anatolia and the Caucasus as the Middle East then I would tell you that as many as 90% of my ancestors lived in the Middle East before the Neolithic period. But if you mean that 70% of your ancestors lived in the Levant or Caucasus then I would disagree.



You're pretty confused. Italy and even prehistoric Sicily had nothing to do with Kura-Araxes. Yes, there was probably a migration in the Bronze Age from the Aegean or Anatolia, but this only slightly changed the autosomal aspect of Southern Italy (in this case we have the genomes of Bronze Age Sicilians), which at the time continued to be largely Anatolian Neolithic:

EEF,76.2 (which is a lot)
CHG,7.7 (a negligible amount when you consider that many Europeans have double that)
WHG,6.6
GANJ_DAREH,4.8
ANE,1.9
NATUFIAN,1.6
TAFORALT,0.9

If they were also "EEF", they clustered near the Sardinians, which is not the case.

They get more "R_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N" (more Caucasus/Iran farmer shifted) mixed with Caucasus and Iran farmer and others, on the Global 25 ...

[Ajeje Brazorf]

If they were also "EEF", they clustered near the Sardinians, which is not the case.

They get more "R_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N" (more Caucasus/Iran farmer shifted) mixed with Caucasus and Iran farmer and others, on the Global 25 ...

Who exactly are you talking about? The ancestral composition of Middle and Late Bronze Age Sicilian samples (1564-1004 BC) is 76.8% EEF, 7.5% CHG, 6.6% WHG, 4.9% Ganj_Dareh, etc. The modern Sardinian average (which is far from representative of most Sardinians) with 77.2% EEF is only slightly more "Neolithic", and it too has Ganj Dareh (4.2%) and CHG (2.2%) admixture. Nuragic Sardinians dating from the period mentioned above are not only more EEF than modern Sardinians (82.2%), but also completely lack the eastern input of the latter.

[Petalpusher]

The only relevant components are:

WHG - ANE - BASAL - East Asian - ASE - SSA. Evertyhing else are intermediates or mixes of those components, we can go even further but this is a good starting point, as they are quite removed from each others (maybe WHG/ANE have some relatively closer relationship, but we need those two apart in the more specific case of Europe)

It also doesn't make much sense to think in terms of past geographical locations, at different times it didn't fit what we consider related to a region nowadays. For example ANF had very little to do with present Anatolians. They were a basal eurasian branch that had likely stalled a bit more around the near east than earlier splits, and mixing later then, either West with WHG, East with ANE and South with SSA. Which in turns created ANF, CHG and ANA.

[Leto]

The standard Davidski run is quite good for Central and Southern Italy

https://i.ibb.co/rkqJ5qh/South-Central-Italian-G25-Davidski.png

[Luso]

If all South Italians look like you then i believe it is true

he looks like an ancient roman farmer

[Tauromachos]

he looks like an ancient roman farmer

He must be very ancient going by his avatar

[Nicolaus]

false maps and full of bullshit, this is confirmed by that 0% of ANE in the sardinians

[Cristiano viejo]

false maps and full of bullshit, this is confirmed by that 0% of ANE in the sardinians

Sardinians are mostly Neolithic aka Middle Eastern.

[Nicolaus]

Sardinians are mostly Neolithic aka Middle Eastern.

this doesn't deny what I said, and middle eastern is a recent term

[Cristiano viejo]

false maps and full of bullshit, this is confirmed by that 0% of ANE in the sardinians

Sardinians are mostly Neolithic aka Middle Eastern.

[Nicolaus]

Sardinians are mostly Neolithic aka Middle Eastern.

you insist

[Cristiano viejo]

you insist

Is that false?