manu15151513
01-25-2021, 07:28 PM
Italians have over 94-95% of their ancestors in the same area as their great-grandparents who lived three thousand years ago. For example, if you have been Umbrian for generations, it is extremely likely that more than 94-95% of your ancestors were approximately in Umbria even in pre-Roman times, or if you are from Romagna that they were approximately in the Romagna area for over 94-95% already three thousand Years ago. This is because the Roman and medieval period had almost no influence on the genetic makeup of Italians in general. Not only do the Italians have almost no ancestors in percentage terms, speaking Middle Eastern, North African, Middle Eastern, Balkan, Germanic and so on due to the Roman and medieval period, but not even of neighboring territories, such as another neighboring region.
On the basis of what evidence do I support this?
Simple: if for example 10% of the ancestors of Italians from the Marche were due to northern Italians, we would notice a clear percentage of haplogroups with unequivocally subsequent phylogeny that took place in the pre-Roman period, considering simultaneously more haplogroups. However, this tends not to happen. Equal by comparing neighboring regions, different nations, macro-regions and so on. Everything can be parsimoniously explained for almost all by pre-Roman events. Yes it is true, haplogroups do not count for anything compared to autosomal DNA, but the correlation between haplogroups and autosomal, considering the necessary precautions, is almost total. It may be that the genetic drift has out of phase this logic for particular haplogroups, but being constant it is extremely unlikely the total ancestors of the Roman period coming from neighboring territories (and obviously even more so from foreign countries) exceed 5-6%, with the exception of some very localized areas, such as the Sannio. Yes it is true, scattered gene flow would make the presence of particular haplogroups unclear, but we would certainly notice unequivocally recent haplogroups which if added together would be a considerable percentage, but this does not happen.
A practical example: this paternal haplogroup seems to be of Celtic origin in the Marche region and is concentrated in the northern part and this is perfectly consistent with the pre-Roman stratification, but in the southern Marche the frequency in comparison is extremely marginal: https://www.pinterest.at/pin/72690981465375228/
An other example, the rarity of df27 in Marche compared to the near North Italy https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-DF27.png
This pattern is constantly repeated: the various areas of Italy compared to each other, even very close, and comparing them with the various foreign countries show differences in the frequency of haplogroups, making any explanation invoking a "recent" event superfluous. However, we have historical data that indicate that there have been some movements, even relatively considerable, so a minimum of ancestors due to the Roman and medieval period from other areas will certainly be there, but almost all from neighboring territories, such as the neighboring region . I believe that the ancestors due to the Roman period of other territories, almost totally neighboring, are about 5-6% in general, or perhaps very slightly more or less: however the combination of historical data and these considerations leads me to believe that about 94-95% of the ancestors in the pre-Roman period were in approximately the same area.
On the basis of what evidence do I support this?
Simple: if for example 10% of the ancestors of Italians from the Marche were due to northern Italians, we would notice a clear percentage of haplogroups with unequivocally subsequent phylogeny that took place in the pre-Roman period, considering simultaneously more haplogroups. However, this tends not to happen. Equal by comparing neighboring regions, different nations, macro-regions and so on. Everything can be parsimoniously explained for almost all by pre-Roman events. Yes it is true, haplogroups do not count for anything compared to autosomal DNA, but the correlation between haplogroups and autosomal, considering the necessary precautions, is almost total. It may be that the genetic drift has out of phase this logic for particular haplogroups, but being constant it is extremely unlikely the total ancestors of the Roman period coming from neighboring territories (and obviously even more so from foreign countries) exceed 5-6%, with the exception of some very localized areas, such as the Sannio. Yes it is true, scattered gene flow would make the presence of particular haplogroups unclear, but we would certainly notice unequivocally recent haplogroups which if added together would be a considerable percentage, but this does not happen.
A practical example: this paternal haplogroup seems to be of Celtic origin in the Marche region and is concentrated in the northern part and this is perfectly consistent with the pre-Roman stratification, but in the southern Marche the frequency in comparison is extremely marginal: https://www.pinterest.at/pin/72690981465375228/
An other example, the rarity of df27 in Marche compared to the near North Italy https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/Haplogroup-R1b-DF27.png
This pattern is constantly repeated: the various areas of Italy compared to each other, even very close, and comparing them with the various foreign countries show differences in the frequency of haplogroups, making any explanation invoking a "recent" event superfluous. However, we have historical data that indicate that there have been some movements, even relatively considerable, so a minimum of ancestors due to the Roman and medieval period from other areas will certainly be there, but almost all from neighboring territories, such as the neighboring region . I believe that the ancestors due to the Roman period of other territories, almost totally neighboring, are about 5-6% in general, or perhaps very slightly more or less: however the combination of historical data and these considerations leads me to believe that about 94-95% of the ancestors in the pre-Roman period were in approximately the same area.