Hatred between Turks and Arabs?

[Robocop]

Many people are not awared the fact that (in general) Turks and Arabs do not like each others. I found this when I was traveling Germany 10 years ago.

I was eating in one Turkish restaurant in Munich, so I was talking nicely with boss of the restaurant, he was stunned that I thought that Turks are friends to Arabs, he was SHOCKED LOL.

I asked him how come do you dislike each others?

He said to me it goes deep into history.

THEN I DO MY RESEARCH ABOUT THIS when I came back to Croatia, I wrote a seminar about this on my University of History, and I suggested one theory and idea to my professor why Arabs hated and hate Turks, in general, my professor was (I have to say) shocked in positive way, because he never thought of this in this way, so my theory is this (and this are facts):


1. To Ottoman Empire it was always Empire primary thing and Islam was secondary thing.

2. Ottomans used Islamization in same fashion as Roman Empire used ROMANIZATION, means; they used it to make BETTER CITIZENS of Empire. Now this doesn't mean Ottomans didn't care for Islam, they cared very much, but you get the point.

3. Ottomans could used Islamization on non-muslim population very well to make better citizens of Empire, but they couldn't used it on Arabs for obvious reason :D, Arabs were muslims long before Turks.

4. So what happened? Turks were killing Arabs like flies in Ottoman Empire whenever they would notice some rebellion, so it's not wonder Arabs joined English and French AGAINST Ottoman Empire in World War 1.

[Hamilcar]

In general it's more turks who hate arabs, it's most of the time not reciprocal many arabs are neutral or admire Turks/turkey

[Robocop]

I feel like the hate is not as much as compared to Arab vs. Persians

Well hate between Persians (primary Iran) and Arabs rest in Sunni vs Shia...

But Im talking here about something totally different, the fact that Turks were killing Arabs like flies durin Ottoman Empire.

Paradox is that Ottomans were even more friendly toward Christians in their Empire than to Arabs. IN GENERAL.

[Altaylı]

Generally some Turkish people hate arabs because of some Arabs betrayed us in WW1 (this is disappoinment for Turks) and saudis act like dog of america

But if you ask to me i dont have problem with arabs just i dont like saudis because of their acts also i think saudis hate Turks too much

[Mejgusu]

4. So what happened? Turks were killing Arabs like flies in Ottoman Empire whenever they would notice some rebellion, so it's not wonder Arabs joined English and French AGAINST Ottoman Empire in World War 1.

Wtf no.

[Marmara]

Well hate between Persians (primary Iran) and Arabs rest in Sunni vs Shia...

But Im talking here about something totally different, the fact that Turks were killing Arabs like flies durin Ottoman Empire.

Paradox is that Ottomans were even more friendly toward Christians in their Empire than to Arabs. IN GENERAL.

This is not true. Only in the late period with the rise of Nationalism did Ottomans start to view Arabs suspiciously.

In the early and middle period, Arabs were viewed positively, as fellow muslims. Ottomans trusted Arabs (and Persians) more than Turks when it comes to arts and knowledge, but didn't trust Arabs when it comes to administration for obvious reasons.

Current hatred between Turks and Arabs mostly come from Turkish side, and it's a very recent thing due to Refugee crisis and Arab migration. I don't remember anyone hating Arabs when i was a kid. Turkish and Arab diaspora may have their own reasons to dislike each other.

[sean]

Well, their small eyes and flat noses really seemed to trigger the Arabs. It was even in the Hadiths.


Abu Huraira reported Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) as saying: The Last Hour would not come until you fight with a people wearing shoes of hair and the Last Hour would not come until you fight with a people having small eyes and broad snub noses.

Abu Huraira reported Allaah's Messenger (sallAllaahu alayhi wa sallam) as saying: The Last Hour would not come unless you fight with people whose faces are like hammered shields and the Last Hour would not come until you would fight against those wearing the shoes of hair.

https://i.imgur.com/8jkDoBM.jpg

[Robocop]

Wtf no.

Wtf what bro?

Arabs joined French and English in WW1 against Ottoman Empire, they wanted to be free from Ottomans.

[Hamilcar]

This is not true. Only in the late period with the rise of Nationalism did Ottomans start to view Arabs suspiciously.

In the early and middle period, Arabs were viewed positively, as fellow muslims. Ottomans trusted Arabs (and Persians) more than Turks when it comes to arts and knowledge, but didn't trust Arabs when it comes to administration for obvious reasons.

Current hatred between Turks and Arabs mostly come from Turkish side, and it's a very recent thing due to Refugee crisis and Arab migration. I don't remember anyone hating Arabs when i was a kid. Turkish and Arab diaspora may have their own reasons to dislike each other.

I learned that this anti-arabism really started with the young turks movement after arabs started to turn their back on the ottoman empire

[Mejgusu]

Wtf what bro?

Arabs joined French and English in WW1 against Ottoman Empire, they wanted to be free from Ottomans.



Its true that they wanted to become independent and yes Ottomans stopped every rebellion hardly but they didn’t kill Arabs like „flies“.

[Marmara]

I learned that this anti-arabism really started with the young turks movement after arabs started to turn their back on the ottoman empire

It was surely an eye-opening experience. After decades of Islamist and Ummah propaganda under Abdulhamid II, Ottomans believed no Muslim population would turn against them.

[Graywolf]

1. Arabs betrayed Ottomans during bloody days of WW1 by joinin British despite the announcement of Jihad by Caliph which if you dont obey you become infidel according to Islam.
2. They attacked the Ottoman Garnisons which are protecting Holy cities of Islam (Mecca. Medinah). Fahreddin Pasha didnt leave sacred places ate grasshopers with his army and said no one can enter her unless they walk on my corpse. then ordered to surrender by Sultan to surrender.
3.They commited war crimes (actually the native population) torturing surrended Turkish soldiers.
4.Despite the claims Ottomans took care of non-Turkic population very well, they werent recruited to army as mandatory.One of the founding fathers of Turanism H.N. Atsız expelled from military-medcine school for not saluting an arab officer.
5.Talkan and Curcan massacres on Turks commited by muayyads.
6.It even goes back: The words of Barbarossa Hayrettin Pasha are remarkable ...
"These Arabs are a people who do not know the art of war. They think that raiding in the desert is the same as fighting as an army.
Even the Spanish infidel, who knows the art of war, has always been defeated by the Turkish navy men. Because in them, human life is very worthless. Instead of knowing their servitude and taking precautions, they say 'everything is from God' and die stupidly. "

Barbarossa Hayreddin Pasha
Source: Gazâvât-ı Hayreddîn Pasha

7.And also 6 millions of arab border jumpers without any moral and paid regularly by islamist erdogan government attracts anger of Turk people already struggling with economic crisis.
8. Syrians are not fighting for their country Turks fall martyr on syrian deserts while they are making 5 babies each here (these all have proof)
9. saudis and egypts even palestinians which receives all kind of aid from TURKEY (palestine doesnt exist long live Israle) support greece agression in middle east.

As a descendant of a men who martyred and wounded during WW1 even went to Yemen and even Sina to fight dont expect symphaty from me.

[Dr_Maul]

I think definitely more Turks hate arabs than the other way around

[Hamilcar]

1. Arabs betrayed Ottomans during bloody days of WW1 by joinin British despite the announcement of Jihad by Caliph which if you dont obey you become infidel according to Islam.
2. They attacked the Ottoman Garnisons which are protecting Holy cities of Islam (Mecca. Medinah). Fahreddin Pasha didnt leave sacred places ate grasshopers with his army and said no one can enter her unless they walk on my corpse. then ordered to surrender by Sultan to surrender.
3.They commited war crimes (actually the native population) torturing surrended Turkish soldiers.
4.Despite the claims Ottomans took care of non-Turkic population very well, they werent recruited to army as mandatory.One of the founding fathers of Turanism H.N. Atsız expelled from military-medcine school for not saluting an arab officer.
5.Talkan and Curcan massacres on Turks commited by muayyads.
6.It even goes back: The words of Barbarossa Hayrettin Pasha are remarkable ...
"These Arabs are a people who do not know the art of war. They think that raiding in the desert is the same as fighting as an army.
Even the Spanish infidel, who knows the art of war, has always been defeated by the Turkish navy men. Because in them, human life is very worthless. Instead of knowing their servitude and taking precautions, they say 'everything is from God' and die stupidly. "

Barbarossa Hayreddin Pasha
Source: Gazâvât-ı Hayreddîn Pasha

7.And also 6 millions of arab border jumpers without any moral and paid regularly by islamist erdogan government attracts anger of Turk people already struggling with economic crisis.
8. Syrians are not fighting for their country Turks fall martyr on syrian deserts while they are making 5 babies each here (these all have proof)
9. saudis and egypts even palestinians which receives all kind of aid from TURKEY (palestine doesnt exist long live Israle) support greece agression in middle east.

As a descendant of a men who martyred and wounded during WW1 even went to Yemen and even Sina to fight dont expect symphaty from me.


It doesn't make sense to hate millions of modern people because of events that happened 1 century ago...

and arabs can easily make the same kind of list, these childish fights are a waste of time

[Egyptian]

Which Arabs you mean? there are different Arabs .. Gulf Arabs? Levantine Arabs? Egyptian Arabs ? Amazigh Arabs? African Arabs?

[Robocop]

It was surely an eye-opening experience. After decades of Islamist and Ummah propaganda under Abdulhamid II, Ottomans believed no Muslim population would turn against them.

Turns out.. you were wrong. :)

In this regard, there is truly historical gap between Turks and Arabs, and there is no religion which could overcome that, but in my honest opinion... that's only natural.

I dont understand how the Empire could ever trust Arabs in the first place.

[Graywolf]

It doesn't make sense to hate millions of modern people because of events that happened 1 century ago...

and arabs can easily make the same kind of list, these childish fights are a waste of time

I do not care whatever they write, women cheating on their husbands also have hundreds of excuses similiar to arabs like: he didnt like me, he didnt pay me as if my ancestors were living a flamboyant life.,
And what i wrote arent something simple.

[Radimir]

Same as Persian and Arab animosity. It never made sense to me, like how do you hate Arabs yet worship an Arab god and fashion your lifestyle after that of an Arabian prophet?

[Egyptian]

As an Egyptian , I don't hate Turks , not at all .. I actually do like them .. i'm even a fan of Egyptian monarchy during King Farouk and his grandfathers (whom were mostly turks and albanians) and i wish nothing but progress for Turkey.

[Hamilcar]

I do not care whatever they write, women cheating on their husbands also have hundreds of excuses similiar to arabs like: he didnt like me, he didnt pay me as if my ancestors were living a flamboyant life.,
And what i wrote arent something simple.

ask yourself why they followed the english advice if they were so well treated by the ottomans

Go read a bit, instead of playing the dumb nationalist

[Robocop]

...

As I've said, I dont see anything surprising in Arab turning against you in WW1, because let's look at the subject from logical perspective: Except for Islam, Turks are total aliens for Arabs (and vice versa), from racial, genetical, linguistical and even relatively cultural stand point.

Except religion, you don't share anything with those people.

That's like if you would say to me that my Croatian people should trust Bolivian people completely only because we are both Catholics :D.

You shouldn't have trust Arabs (I mean your Ottoman Empire) in the first place.

[Marmara]

Turns out.. you were wrong. :)

In this regard, there is truly historical gap between Turks and Arabs, and there is no religion which could overcome that, but in my honest opinion... that's only natural.

I dont understand how the Empire could ever trust Arabs in the first place.

Nothing to do with Arabs, it was the foolishness of Turks which continues today.

Same with Kurds, look at PKK. Stupid Islamists think that sharing the same religion is enough to gain loyalty of a nation. They will never understand why Muslim nations can turn against Turks when (in their accord) Turkey is championing the religion.

[Egyptian]

Same as Persian and Arab animosity. It never made sense to me, like how do you hate Arabs yet worship an Arab god and fashion your lifestyle after that of an Arabian prophet?

Persians hold a grudge to Arabs , Since Arabs destroyed the Persian empire .. Shiaism is not like Islam in Arab countries both are different to each other.

[Graywolf]

Pardon me, are you illiterate? I guess my religion written above my profile.

[Graywolf]

As I've said, I dont see anything surprising in Arab turning against you in WW1, because let's look at the subject from logical perspective: Except for Islam, Turks are total aliens for Arabs (and vice versa), from racial, genetical, linguistical and even relatively cultural stand point.

Except religion, you don't share anything with those people.

That's like if you would say to me that my Croatian people should trust Bolivian people completely only because we are both Catholics :D.

You shouldn't have trust Arabs (I mean your Ottoman Empire) in the first place.

Bud, we were completely alien 1000 years ago. Arab countries as well as Iran ruled by Turks for 1000 years. Turks became the protector of the caliph then became the caliph. Arabs ruled by Seljukids before Otommans, Mamluks before them, Tolunids, Akhshids etc.... They were familiar with Turkish rule

[tipirneni]

There is strong brotherhood in South Asia and SE Asia, which didnt get affected by the Ottoman era divisions

[Robocop]

Which Arabs you mean? there are different Arabs .. Gulf Arabs? Levantine Arabs? Egyptian Arabs ? Amazigh Arabs? African Arabs?

Arabs which were under Ottoman Empire on this map of Ottoman empire:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9d/OttomanEmpire1739.png/1280px-OttomanEmpire1739.png

[Graywolf]

ask yourself why they followed the english advice if they were so well treated by the ottomans

Go read a bit, instead of playing the dumb nationalist

pardon me dumb nationalists? Do you think Turkish nationalism came into being with a flash? All Turkic Empires treated non-Turks with tolerance and emperors created their chambers from foreigners, Both Seljukids and Ottomans opressed Turkomans for being nomad tried make them settled. But they created their army from Turks what a double standart. You think Ottomans treated harshly to arabs and cared Turks come on! Turkish nationalism is a rebellion against opression of the mohterland's own people.

[Egyptian]

Arabs which were under Ottoman Empire on this map of Ottoman empire:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/9/9d/OttomanEmpire1739.png/1280px-OttomanEmpire1739.png

We didn't betray Turks in ww1 .. actually Turk/Albanian rule continued till 1952 and later a military coup.

the one who betrayed Turks in Egypt was an Albanian king (Muhammed Ali Pasha) because he wanted to build his own empire.

I'm speaking for Egypt .. no betray happened against Turks from our side.

as for Saudia they fought along with english against Turks , so among all of this only muhammed ali and saudia which betrayed turks .. again what Arabs betryal you speak about?

[Robocop]

Same as Persian and Arab animosity. It never made sense to me, like how do you hate Arabs yet worship an Arab god and fashion your lifestyle after that of an Arabian prophet?

Well that's the same thing if your would ask an average european anti-jewish person (and in the same time Christian), how can he hate Jews and yet worship A JEW MAN; JESUS.

[Robocop]

We didn't betray Turks in ww1 .. actually Turk/Albanian rule continued till 1952 and later a military coup.

the one who betrayed Turks in Egypt was an Albanian king (Muhammed Ali Pasha) because he wanted to build his own empire.

I'm speaking for Egypt .. no betray happened against Turks from our side.

as for Saudia they fought along with english against Turks , so among all of this only muhammed ali and saudia which betrayed turks .. again what Arabs betryal you speak about?

Actually I was referring exactly on that betryal of Saudis when turned against Ottomans in WW1.

But as you know, Saudi Arabia is like Muslim "Vatican", so I just wanted to open thread about this, because I never saw people discuss this very important or at least INTERESTING History topic.

[Graywolf]

There is strong brotherhood in South Asia and SE Asia, which didnt get affected by the Ottoman era divisions

India was ruled by Mughal Empire for 300 which are descendants of Uzbek Turk Timur, go learn your own history.

[Graywolf]

Actually I was referring exactly on that betryal of Saudis when turned against Ottomans in WW1.

But as you know, Saudi Arabia is like Muslim "Vatican", so I just wanted to open thread about this, because I never saw people discuss this very important or at least INTERESTING History topic.

Saudia wasnt muslim Vatican nor the caliph stayed there 5th caliph changed capital to Damascus, then baghdad then Turks took it to Constantinople

[Marmara]

as for Saudia they fought along with english against Turks , so among all of this only muhammed ali and saudia which betrayed turks .. again what Arabs betryal you speak about?

Saudis fought with Ottomans much earlier (and lost). The one who rebelled Ottomans was Shariff Hussein, who was a Hashemite. His sons have become kings in Syria, Iraq and Transjordan (only Jordanian dynasty remains now).

Saudis later fought against Hashemites and threw them out of Arabia.

[Robocop]

Saudia wasnt muslim Vatican nor the caliph stayed there 5th caliph changed capital to Damascus, then baghdad then Turks took it to Constantinople

I ment that Saudia is "Muslim Vatican" in terms of 2 most Holy muslim cities; Meka and Medina.

[Graywolf]

the only arab country which never been under control of Turks is O'man

[Egyptian]

Actually I was referring exactly on that betryal of Saudis when turned against Ottomans in WW1.

But as you know, Saudi Arabia is like Muslim "Vatican", so I just wanted to open thread about this, because I never saw people discuss this very important or at least INTERESTING History topic.

Not all Saudis tho .. there is a branch in Al-Saud family who likes betryal , they even betrayed Egypt in 2013 when they support the military coup , so it''s a habit of them.

ok open the thread and i will be happy to join, however.. Only Macca and Medina that considered holy for Muslims in Saudia , not all Saudia.

[Mr.Bean]

hating a whole nationality is stupid

[Marmara]

Extra Credits has a good series about the events, but it's best to make further research.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2L6L37GGAY

[Graywolf]

I ment that Saudia is "Muslim Vatican" in terms of 2 most Holy muslim cities; Meka and Medina.

yeah, but i think the equivalent of Mecca in christianity is Jerusalem. they are just holy nor abbasid neither umayyads didnt rule from there.

[Egyptian]

Saudis fought with Ottomans much earlier (and lost). The one who rebelled Ottomans was Shariff Hussein, who was a Hashemite. His sons have become kings in Syria, Iraq and Transjordan (only Jordanian dynasty remains now).

Saudis later fought against Hashemites and threw them out of Arabia.

Yes, you are correct .. let me clearify something.

Saudia doesn't mean A-Saud family , Saudia= All citizens of this country

A-Saud= the ruling family of the country.

anyway, Al-Saud currently are anti-Turks because of muslimbrotherhood and so on, but they are led by a small nation (UAE) .. actually UAE are currently who runs Middle East along with Israelis.

They control Muhammed Bin Salman, Sisi , etc..

[Hamilcar]

the only arab country which never been under control of Turks is O'man

false, Morocco too has never been controlled by the ottomans

[Kyp]

Great movie:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YnPsPsDX_Ko

[Graywolf]

We didn't betray Turks in ww1 .. actually Turk/Albanian rule continued till 1952 and later a military coup.

the one who betrayed Turks in Egypt was an Albanian king (Muhammed Ali Pasha) because he wanted to build his own empire.

I'm speaking for Egypt .. no betray happened against Turks from our side.

as for Saudia they fought along with english against Turks , so among all of this only muhammed ali and saudia which betrayed turks .. again what Arabs betryal you speak about?

dude i think you didnt read what i wrote before we lost north africa before ww1 and there is no common hatry against african arabs amongst Turks. Hatry is limited with peninsula and gulf but american supported dictator of Egypts' s supporting greece and this situation ignited the hatry against eypt.

[Robocop]

yeah, but i think the equivalent of Mecca in christianity is Jerusalem. they are just holy nor abbasid neither umayyads didnt rule from there.

Only Jerusalem is in Israel now :), and I dont have any problem with that what so ever.

Oh and when we mentioned Israel, when league of Arab nations attacked Israel (because they wanted to drown every jew in sea, this are the words of Egyptian president in 1967); 1947, 1967 and 1973 (and lost in all three attacks), I never researched position of Turkey in all that? I bet you didnt help Arabs politically in their quest, not even a bit, with every right if I may add, why should you.

P.S. In my honest opinion, Israeli victory in Israeli-Arab six day war 1967 is one of the greatest victories in history of Menkind.

[Parça do Neymar]

I think definitely more Turks hate arabs than the other way around

I have the same impression, Arabs seem to be indifferent to Turks.

I wouldn't say Turks necessarily hate Arabs, but they strongly dislike when people associate both groups just because of their shared faith.



hating a whole nationality is stupid

You're not wrong, but:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pzYGWF6qrts

[Egyptian]

dude i think you didnt read what i wrote before we lost north africa before ww1 and there is no common hatry against african arabs amongst Turks. Hatry is limited with peninsula and gulf but american supported dictator of Egypts' s supporting greece and this situation ignited the hatry against eypt.

I don't care about Greece nor Cyprus .. Nor i wanna hear anything about them.

Sisi is under UAE command, he takes orders from there ( go support greece , ok .. don't support greece , ok).

hating or ignition hatred towards Egypt because of sisi is stupid , and if turks hate us because of that , then this is stupidity.

[Egyptian]

Only Jerusalem is in Israel now :), and I dont have any problem with that what so ever.

Oh and when we mentioned Israel, when league of Arab nations attacked Israel (because they wanted to drown every jew in sea, this are the words of Egyptian president in 1967); 1947, 1967 and 1973 (and lost in all three attacks), I never researched position of Turkey in all that? I bet you didnt help Arabs politically in their quest, not even a bit, with every right if I may add, why should you.

P.S. In my honest opinion, Israeli victory in Israeli-Arab six day war 1967 is one of the greatest victories in history of Menkind.

How come we lost 1973 and gained back Sinai ? does israel share land for free? :lol: they give gifts?

that's 1973 photo ,,, Egyptian flag on Sinai .. how come we lost?

https://www.rosaelyoussef.com/UserFiles/News/2018/10/06/384172.jpg?181006115700

https://mediaaws.almasryalyoum.com/news/large/2019/10/05/976803_0.jpeg

https://www.alghad.tv/wp-content/uploads/2019/10/images-16-e1570271082660.jpg

[Graywolf]

false, Morocco too has never been controlled by the ottomans

After the battle of Mostaganem Ottomans defeated morrocan and spanish combined forces they made Morroco vassal and tributed it . Here we also see another betrayal against so called religion brotherhood again.

[Graywolf]

Only Jerusalem is in Israel now :), and I dont have any problem with that what so ever.

Oh and when we mentioned Israel, when league of Arab nations attacked Israel (because they wanted to drown every jew in sea, this are the words of Egyptian president in 1967); 1947, 1967 and 1973 (and lost in all three attacks), I never researched position of Turkey in all that? I bet you didnt help Arabs politically in their quest, not even a bit, with every right if I may add, why should you.

P.S. In my honest opinion, Israeli victory in Israeli-Arab six day war 1967 is one of the greatest victories in history of Menkind.

Turkey is the first country recognized Israel that time.They were uncomfortable with the posture of Naseer. LONG LIVE ISRAEL.

[Robocop]

How come we lost 1973 and gained back Sinai ? does israel share land for free? :lol: they give gifts?

Israeli gave up from Sinai only because Americans were pushing them to give it back to you, because of all Oil crisis with Soviets (who were on your side).

In war 1973 your Egyptian army had some success in the begining of war, but as the war continued, you didn't win anything in that one also.

Sinai was given to you in political way, not in military way, you didn't brought it back to you by war, but by politics and crisis between USA and USSR.

Dont get me wrong, Sinai IS YOURS, but you didn't reclaim it trough war, but got it back politically.

[Egyptian]

Turkey is the first country recognized Israel that time.They were uncomfortable with the posture of Naseer. LONG LIVE ISRAEL.

And now Israel and its allies eating Turkey piece by piece ..

[Robocop]

Turkey is the first country recognized Israel that time.They were uncomfortable with the posture of Naseer. LONG LIVE ISRAEL.

Agree. Long live Israel. :thumb001:

[Egyptian]

Israeli gave up from Sinai only because Americans were pushing them to give it back to you, because of all Oil crisis with Soviets (who were on your side).

In war 1973 your Egyptian army had some success in the begining of war, but as the war continued, you didn't win anything in that one also.

Sinai was given to you in political way, not in military way, you didn't brought it back to you by war, but by politics and crisis between USA and USSR.

Are you joking or serious ? look at the photo .. how the hell Egyptian flag on Sinai and yet they gave it to us .. the only area they gave with a small area called Taba in 1982 near Eilat.

Jews will never give anything , they didn't give Golan nor the area occupied before 1967 to Palestinians.

[Egyptian]

Soviets on our side , Americans on israeli side .. isn't it fair? fair enough.

and oil crisis is caused by gulf countries not soviets.

[Robocop]

Are you joking or serious ? look at the photo .. how the hell Egyptian flag on Sinai and yet they gave it to us .. the only area they gave with a small area called Taba in 1982 near Eilat.

Jews will never give anything , they didn't give Golan nor the area occupied before 1967 to Palestinians.

I would never give up Golan as well, because from Golan Syrians were always threatining Israel, what is enough is enough.

And sorry man, I can show you in writen and video form where Americans are pushing Israelis to give up from Sinai.

[Egyptian]

I would never give up Golan as well, because from Golan Syrians were always threatining Israel, what is enough is enough.

And sorry man, I can show you in writen and video form where Americans are pushing Israelis to give up from Sinai.

I can show you a better video of Israeli commanders and soldiers surrenders to Egyptians in 1973


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NG694b4I6WQ

[Hamilcar]

After the battle of Mostaganem Ottomans defeated morrocan and spanish combined forces they made Morroco vassal and tributed it . Here we also see another betrayal against so called religion brotherhood again.

wtf are you talking about ? Morocco never was a vassal of the ottoman empire.

Here the ottoman empire next to the moroccan one :

https://i.imgur.com/ZOj6Vm1.jpg

[Robocop]

Soviets on our side , Americans on israeli side .. isn't it fair? fair enough.

and oil crisis is caused by gulf countries not soviets.

OMG I remember I already have this discussion with you.

Today USA is helping Israel a lot, but in those days of 1973, not EVEN A 10% of help today.

USSR was helping you in weapons 5 times more than USA was helping Israel in 1973, not to mention in 1967.

The only help which Israelis got from USA in terms of weapons in 1973 was; RIFLES, a fucking rifles.

And you... what did you got from Soviets????

Anti-Aircraft missiles (state of the art weapon of that time) from which you could defend your attack on Sinai, Soviets even gave you anti tenk man missilles, also state of the art weapon of that time.

The only thing Israel had in say 1967 war were French Jets they bought from France before that, you Arabs (Egypt, Jordan and Syria + Iraqi help) had at least 15 times more soldiers in that attack, you had 5 times more tenks, and 3 times more Jets.

Yet... you lost 1967 war, sorry I am not trying to insult you or your nation, but Israeli win of 1967 in six day war is PURE MILITARY GENIUS of human history.

[Egyptian]

OMG I remember I already have this discussion with you.

Today USA is helping Israel a lot, but in those days of 1973, not EVEN A 10% of help today.

USSR was helping you in weapons 5 times more than USA was helping Israel in 1973, not to mention in 1967.

The only help which Israelis got from USA in terms of weapons in 1973 was; RIFLES, a fucking rifles.

And you... what did you got from Soviets????

Anti-Aircraft missiles (state of the art weapon of that time) from which you could defend your attack on Sinai, Soviets even gave you anti tenk man missilles, also state of the art weapon of that time.

The only thing Israel had in say 1967 war were French Jets they bought from France before that, you Arabs (Egypt, Jordan and Syria + Iraqi help) had at least 15 times more soldiers in that attack, you had 5 times more tenks, and 3 times more Jets.

Yet... you lost 1967 war, sorry I am not trying to insult you or your nation, but Israeli win of 1967 in six day war is PURE MILITARY GENIUS of human history.

The only help israel got was rifles ? rifles my ass .. how about f-4 phantom , how about american m-60 paton tanks , how about the fuken nuclear program and uranium ?

or how about this american help during the war : Operation Nickel Grass

Operation Nickel Grass was a strategic airlift operation conducted by the United States to deliver weapons and supplies to Israel during the 1973 Yom Kippur War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nickel_Grass

[Graywolf]

wtf are you talking about ? Morocco never was a vassal of the ottoman empire.

Here the ottoman empire next to the moroccan one :

https://i.imgur.com/ZOj6Vm1.jpg

Battle of Mostaganem (1558) search it. Morocco wasnt Ottoman soil indeed. they were tributed and vassalized.

[Robocop]

The only help israel got was rifles ? rifles my ass .. how about f-4 phantom , how about american m-60 paton tanks , how about the fuken nuclear program and uranium ?

or how about this american help during the war : Operation Nickel Grass

Operation Nickel Grass was a strategic airlift operation conducted by the United States to deliver weapons and supplies to Israel during the 1973 Yom Kippur War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nickel_Grass

I said USA was starting to help Israel more in 1973, but not like today, not even close and not even close to help which Soviets gave to you.

Do I really need to show you plane by plane, tenk by tenk, soldiers by soldiers as comparison of what Israel had in 1967 and what Syrian-Egyptian-Jordanian army had combined? Do I really have to? Jesus Christ man, we always have same discussion.

Look, here is somethin for you, and relax :D:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHSNZK4Je-Y

[tipirneni]

India was ruled by Mughal Empire for 300 which are descendants of Uzbek Turk Timur, go learn your own history.

yes, but they didnt rule it alone. The earlier Turkish dynasty of 40 slaves and Khorasan Arab & Persian Syeds laid the foundation. There was an Afghan Lodi dynasty usurpation which was overcame with help from these Mughal ruler who happened to rule Kabul at that time.

[Hamilcar]

Battle of Mostaganem (1558) search it. Morocco wasnt Ottoman soil indeed. they were tributed and vassalized.

Battle of Mostaganem involved spanish forces on the algerian territory, again Morocco has never been a vassal of the ottoman empire.

[Babak]

Lol this Arab-Turk-Persian rivarly is beyond retarded. You all won and lost wars; its literally a cycle.

The point is:

-You still speak your respective languages
-You kept your cultures intact, for the most part

Though, I have to admit, Arabs(Both levantine+gulf)and Iranians do have a jerky know it all attitude. It seems to be a Near-eastern trait that is non-existent in Turks.

[Egyptian]

Lol this Arab-Turk-Persian rivarly is beyond retarded. You all won and lost wars; its literally a cycle.

The point is:

-You still speak your respective languages
-You kept your cultures intact, for the most part

Though, I have to admit, Arabs(Both levantine+gulf)and Iranians do have a jerky know it all attitude. It seems to be a Near-eastern trait that is non-existent in Turks.

Are you babak who posts on twitter about military news?

[Babak]

Are you babak who posts on twitter about military news?

No bro lol

[Caucasianturkk]

Only non-religious and anti-islamist turks hate arabs.I mean anatolians and akp supporters love arab and they are currently the most cucked people in the world(5 million syrian live in Turkey and most of them are men :).Turkey has totally 9 million refugees ).

Now for your Question,Yes turks have right to hate arabs.It is like Greeks hate turks.
Greeks hate turks because they dominated anally by turks during the ottoman era.
It is same for turks.Turks changed their religion and started to cut their penises for Allah.
No matter what other turkish users say,Turkish culture is based on arabic culture.
That is why some turks hate arab.

[Ryujin]

I don't hate Arabs. The main reason why Turks hate Arabs is that they are associated with a more backward understanding of Islam. Also Arabs are accused of betraying the Ottoman Empire. In the WW1; Arab tribes rebelled against the Ottoman Empire and fought Turks alongside the British.

Turks actually learnt Islam from Persians. In the Ottoman Empire; you can see a lot of artwork where Muhammad is portrayed without any restrictions, just like in Persian artwork. But in the Arab Islamic society; this is completely wrong and they can be mad about it. So; there has always been a different understanding of Islam between Turks and Arabs. For instance; radical groups such as wahhabis and salafis never gained ground in Turkey in any part of history.

Today Turkey is more related to countries such as Azerbaijan, Albania and Bosnia when it comes to practicing Islam. (In fact Ottomans brought that Persian-influenced kind of Islamic interpretation to Albania and Bosnia) We are a more secularized society to a certain degree, and women in Turkey can hang around uncovered, in miniskirts and people can drink alcohol just fine in bars, pubs and such.

Also Turks are often mad because they are associated with deserts, camels and Arabic script by illiterate, uncultured people who think that Islam is only practiced by Arabs.

[Graywolf]

Only non-religious and anti-islamist turks hate arabs.I mean anatolians and akp supporters love arab and they are currently the most cucked people in the world(5 million syrian live in Turkey and most of them are men :).Turkey has totally 9 million refugees ).

Now for your Question,Yes turks have right to hate arabs.It is like Greeks hate turks.
Greeks hate turks because they dominated anally by turks during the ottoman era.
It is same for turks.Turks changed their religion and started to cut their penises for Allah.
No matter what other turkish users say,Turkish culture is based on arabic culture.
That is why some turks hate arab.
bundan emin misin bir ispatlasana

[Ryujin]

Same as Persian and Arab animosity. It never made sense to me, like how do you hate Arabs yet worship an Arab god and fashion your lifestyle after that of an Arabian prophet?

The same way most proud white nationalists in this forum worship a Semitic man.

[Caucasianturkk]

bundan emin misin bir ispatlasana

Look at the Akp supporters.Many of them hate turks and turkic culture and want to create Islamic State.They never liked Turkish rebuplic and Ataturk.
Why because they are technically assimillated armenians,They can't be turk by genetically(not even %10).
They have no identity only thing they have is Islam which is arabic.
Indeed They feel more arab than turk.5 f****** million syrian live in Turkey.Many of them are men.Arabized assimillatd armenians don't see the danger.In the future their hijabi daughters will be fucked by syrian refugees.

[Graywolf]

Look at the Akp supporters.Many of them hate turks and turkic culture and want to create Islamic State.They never liked Turkish rebuplic and Ataturk.
Why because they are technically assimillated armenians,They can't be turk by genetically(not even %10).
They have no identity only thing they have is Islam which is arabic.
Indeed They feel more arab than turk.5 f****** million syrian live in Turkey.Many of them are men.Arabized assimillatd armenians don't see the danger.In the future their hijabi daughters will be fucked by syrian refugees.

Completely agree with that bro. but relax yakında ocak dışı kalacaksın benden demesi:D To tell 'Turkish culture based on arabic culture' is outrageous i think the right fit for that is anatolian culture. As we both know real Turks(Yörüks) are Kemalist-Nationalist the only way out to escape from this country before it turns an arabic shithole. Idk if the tall guy wins again I ll whether kill myself or jump into mediterranean and will swim through somewhere muslims dont live in.

[Ryujin]

I agree that there are a lot of Arab lovers in this country. Anti-Arab sentiments are also fueled because of these AKP supporters who cheer for Arab-Islamic lifestyle. This is actually more of a Turkish internal issue.

I don't hate any Arab but as a Kemalist Turk like millions of citizens I'm opposed to the Arab-Islamic lifestyle (Muslim Brotherhood) trying to be forced into our society.

[Egyptian]

I ll whether kill myself or jump into mediterranean and will swim through somewhere muslims dont live in.

Antarctica

[Graywolf]

Antarctica

i am sure i can find some pacific islands with hot native girls.

[Tutankhamun]

Taking advantage of the subject, I will say a funny curiosity, the Syrian and Lebanese immigrants in Latin America were called "Turcos" which for Lebanese was worse than cursing them, but even today Syrians and Lebanese are called Turks here.

Another funny situation about this was when a Turkish friend of my cousin visited São Paulo once, the Turkish woman was all excited to learn that there was a "Turkish" restaurant in my cousin's neighborhood, and that she would probably meet other Turks there, but when she got there she saw that it was just a Lebanese "Turco" guy's restaurant.

[Egyptian]

i am sure i can find some pacific islands with hot native girls.

Pacific full of Muslims.

[Egyptian]

Look at the Akp supporters.Many of them hate turks and turkic culture and want to create Islamic State.They never liked Turkish rebuplic and Ataturk.
Why because they are technically assimillated armenians,They can't be turk by genetically(not even %10).
They have no identity only thing they have is Islam which is arabic.
Indeed They feel more arab than turk.5 f****** million syrian live in Turkey.Many of them are men.Arabized assimillatd armenians don't see the danger.In the future their hijabi daughters will be fucked by syrian refugees.

Hey , What's wrong with Mr Erdogan ?!! we can exchange , take sisi and give us Erdogan.

[Caucasianturkk]

Hey , What's wrong with Mr Erdogan ?!! we can exchange , take sisi and give us Erdogan.

Sisi is a greek lover mindfucked low iq bastard.In this case there is no point to do exchange Since Sisi is far worse than Erdogan.

[Egyptian]

Sisi is a greek lover mindfucked low iq bastard.In this case there is no point to do exchange Since Sisi is far worse than Erdogan.

Ok fair enough .. I don't know why he is in love with greeks , since most Egyptians don't really care about them.

anyway, take 3 pyramids of Giza and give us Erdogan.

[Graywolf]

Hey , What's wrong with Mr Erdogan ?!! we can exchange , take sisi and give us Erdogan.

take the erdogan for fake's sake u dont have to give sisi, if he made us so poor so i think he ll make you starve to death.

[Egyptian]

take the erdogan for fake's sake u dont have to give sisi, if he made us so poor so i think he ll make you starve to death.

How did he make you so poor? are you kidding? Egypt is full of Turkish companies , since his era the turkish industry has taken major steps .. Corona has affected all world economies not only Turkey.

If not for Sisi , Egypt and Turkey would have grown rapidly .. but it's our fate to live under the faggot sisi who doesn't care about Turks or even his own people Egyptians .. he just works for UAE or Saudia or fuken israelis or greeks.

[Graywolf]

How did he make you so poor? are you kidding? Egypt is full of Turkish companies , since his era the turkish industry has taken major steps .. Corona has affected all world economies not only Turkey.

If not for Sisi , Egypt and Turkey would have grown rapidly .. but it's our fate to live under the faggot sisi who doesn't care about Turks or even his own people Egyptians .. he just works for UAE or Saudia or fuken israelis or greeks.
I dont care about sisi dude. when erdogan came 1 dollar was 1.2 liras it is now 7.35 lira after decreasing from 9 liras. We cannot even buy our product raki even beer thanks to his islamo-arab policies. If he made this to Turkey he would turn egypt to palestine. And dont praise any kind of retard from abroad, ever eagin you dont knoow shit about him if you wanna take him u dont have to give us something, we can gift you something

[Robocop]

I ll whether kill myself or jump into mediterranean and will swim through somewhere muslims dont live in.

Come to Croatia, stay here until Turkey becomes what Ataturk wanted to be :D

[Graywolf]

Taking advantage of the subject, I will say a funny curiosity, the Syrian and Lebanese immigrants in Latin America were called "Turcos" which for Lebanese was worse than cursing them, but even today Syrians and Lebanese are called Turks here.

Another funny situation about this was when a Turkish friend of my cousin visited São Paulo once, the Turkish woman was all excited to learn that there was a "Turkish" restaurant in my cousin's neighborhood, and that she would probably meet other Turks there, but when she got there she saw that it was just a Lebanese "Turco" guy's restaurant.

I know that it is because they went there with Ottoman Passports back then.

[Egyptian]

I dont care about sisi dude. when erdogan came 1 dollar was 1.2 liras it is now 7.35 lira after decreasing from 9 liras. We cannot even buy our product raki even beer thanks to his islamo-arab policies. If he made this to Turkey he would turn egypt to palestine. And dont praise any kind of retard from abroad, ever eagin you dont knoow shit about him if you wanna take him u dont have to give us something, we can gift you something

1 Egyptian pound = 3 dollar .. when military coup happened from 1952 till 2013 military coup , 1 dollar = 16 EGP :lol:

please , you live in a good country.

[Graywolf]

Come to Croatia, stay here until Turkey becomes what Ataturk wanted to be :D

ok bring a towell to the shore I am jumping now will be there in app. 16 hours.

[Ryujin]

Come to Croatia, stay here until Turkey becomes what Ataturk wanted to be :D

Erdogan will lose the next elections most probably.

Turkey only belongs to Atatürk.

[Robocop]

ok bring a towell to the shore I am jumping now will be there in app. 16 hours.

https://media3.giphy.com/media/X9XdHf616A9YQ/giphy.gif

[Graywolf]

1 Egyptian pound = 3 dollar .. when military coup happened from 1952 till 2013 military coup , 1 dollar = 16 EGP :lol:

please , you live in a good country.

dude we are turkey we are somehow european and our lifestyle went shittier every year, why to compare ourselves eith egypt? do you compare with venezuela ? we compare ourselves with europe everyone in Turkey were going abroad for cheap holidays: poland, serbia, croatia, georgia, ukraine for sex but now? I cant move with my ass 1 for kilometer. the only country i can travel to is Syria.

[Egyptian]

dude we are turkey we are somehow european and our lifestyle went shittier every year, why to compare ourselves eith egypt? do you compare with venezuela ? we compare ourselves with europe everyone in Turkey were going abroad for cheap holidays: poland, serbia, croatia, georgia, ukraine for sex but now? I cant move with my ass 1 for kilometer. the only country i can travel to is Syria.

Good , cuz sex is haram :lol:

[Robocop]

...


Erdogan will lose the next elections most probably.

Turkey only belongs to Atatürk.

:thumb001:

Ok, one question and dont think I am forcing any ideas into your head, I mean into heads of turkish people; BUT...

Why Turkey (means people and opposition to Erdogan) doesn't seek some help from EU or Russia or even Israel, I mean why not? POLITICAL AND ECONOMICAL HELP ofcourse, you have military, strong, you dont need help there ofcourse, but economically and politically?

Why? I know that someone could think It's crazy that Turkey should make alliance with Israel and such, but why not, you don't owe anything to Arabs... you're not betraying anyone, not your culture or religion, no offence to Arabs but you don't owe them shit, if Arab world would see you as some form of betraying Islam, who gives a fuck what they think...

Turkey was always for itself, I personally think Turkey should turn new chapter, means to go back to road what Ataturk created for you. I always have some feeling like your people feel the "urge" to protect all Muslims, and ok, but... you dont OWE ANYTHING to Arabs.

Cheers

[Ryujin]

:thumb001:

Ok, one question and dont think I am forcing any ideas into your head, I mean into heads of turkish people; BUT...

Why Turkey (means people and opposition to Erdogan) doesn't seek some help from EU or Russia or even Israel, I mean why not? POLITICAL AND ECONOMICAL HELP ofcourse, you have military, strong, you dont need help there ofcourse, but economically and politically?

Why? I know that someone could think It's crazy that Turkey should make alliance with Israel and such, but why not, you don't owe anything to Arabs... you're not betraying anyone, not your culture or religion, no offence to Arabs but you don't owe them shit, if Arab world would see you as some form of betraying Islam, who gives a fuck what they think...

Turkey was always for itself, I personally think Turkey should turn new chapter, means to go back to road what Ataturk created for you. I always have some feeling like your people feel the "urge" to protect all Muslims, and ok, but... you dont OWE ANYTHING to Arabs.

Cheers

Turkey was already an ally of Israel before AKP came to power so it's not a crazy thing. Turkey still has relations with Israel and is visited by Israeli tourists and vice versa. And yes Turkey should again form alliance with Israel. Israel is one of my favorite nations.

On the other hand what you're suggesting is treason. Would you ask for aid from another country to topple down your own government? there is democracy in Turkey, and there are still millions who are loyal to Atatürk. Especially the new generation is mostly non-religious. Erdogan and AKP will be voted out soon or later.

[Egyptian]

:thumb001:

Ok, one question and dont think I am forcing any ideas into your head, I mean into heads of turkish people; BUT...

Why Turkey (means people and opposition to Erdogan) doesn't seek some help from EU or Russia or even Israel, I mean why not? POLITICAL AND ECONOMICAL HELP ofcourse, you have military, strong, you dont need help there ofcourse, but economically and politically?

Why? I know that someone could think It's crazy that Turkey should make alliance with Israel and such, but why not, you don't owe anything to Arabs... you're not betraying anyone, not your culture or religion, no offence to Arabs but you don't owe them shit, if Arab world would see you as some form of betraying Islam, who gives a fuck what they think...

Turkey was always for itself, I personally think Turkey should turn new chapter, means to go back to road what Ataturk created for you. I always have some feeling like your people feel the "urge" to protect all Muslims, and ok, but... you dont OWE ANYTHING to Arabs.

Cheers

What should happen is Egypt and Turkey get closed to each other .. kick greek and cyprus out of gas areas in Mediterranean and dominate it all , that what should happen : )

[Graywolf]

:thumb001:

Ok, one question and dont think I am forcing any ideas into your head, I mean into heads of turkish people; BUT...

Why Turkey (means people and opposition to Erdogan) doesn't seek some help from EU or Russia or even Israel, I mean why not? POLITICAL AND ECONOMICAL HELP ofcourse, you have military, strong, you dont need help there ofcourse, but economically and politically?

Why? I know that someone could think It's crazy that Turkey should make alliance with Israel and such, but why not, you don't owe anything to Arabs... you're not betraying anyone, not your culture or religion, no offence to Arabs but you don't owe them shit, if Arab world would see you as some form of betraying Islam, who gives a fuck what they think...

Turkey was always for itself, I personally think Turkey should turn new chapter, means it go back to road what Ataturk created for you. I always have some feeling like your people feel the "urge" to protect all Muslims, and ok, but... you dont OWE ANYTHING to Arabs.

Cheers

To fight against eachother with foreign help it is high treason man. no Turk for what cause it is wont do that. We are all militaristic and patriots. Actually what u say is what erdogan always wanted to ignite a civil war supress opposition turn country a shithole. In 1960 Kemalist nationalist officer made a coup against pro american, dishonest guy but today erdogan announced him as martyr and purged most of officer and subdued army. overthrow someone eith foreign sıupport this is some arabic job.

[Graywolf]

What should happen is Egypt and Turkey get closed to each other .. kick greek and cyprus out of gas areas in Mediterranean and dominate it all , that what should happen : )

dude sisi is real retard he made deal with greece and restricted its own sea borders, idiot could make it with Turkey and expand it.

[Graywolf]

Good , cuz sex is haram :lol:

erdogan is fucking us isn't that haram?

[Robocop]

Turkey was already an ally of Israel before AKP came to power so it's not a crazy thing. Turkey still has relations with Israel and is visited by Israeli tourists and vice versa. And yes Turkey should again form alliance with Israel. Israel is one of my favorite nations.

I can only imagine what Arab users feel while reading this lol. Anyway ... :thumb001:



On the other hand what you're suggesting is treason. Would you ask for aid from another country to topple down your own government? there is democracy in Turkey, and there are still millions who are loyal to Atatürk. Especially the new generation is mostly non-religious. Erdogan and AKP will be voted out soon or later.

Well, it's not treason if your country is in the hands of a madman. I mean it depends how you look at it, is it a treason to let him drive your country into Hell and do nothing? :)

Look what's happening in USA, Trump did somethin which wasnt seen since civil war in USA, it's totally divided, especially if Trump creates somethin never seen in USA history; THIRD PARTY, and he threatens to do it.

P.S. I always thought (and always respected that about Turkey) that your military is guarding your secularism and democracy, and that your military always watch that your country doesn't fall into sharia or whatever similar to that, to any form of Islamic rule over country.

Where is your military now, I mean they were like some sort of "Praetorian guards" in Turkey since Ataturk, I didnt follow latest events from Turkey, so sorry for this question out of the blu, but is your military totally in support of Erdogan politics? I mean... what's going on.

[Egyptian]

erdogan is fucking us isn't that haram?

That's halal :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

haha jk ..god , I so love Turks.

[Egyptian]

dude sisi is real retard he made deal with greece and restricted its own sea borders, idiot could make it with Turkey and expand it.

Don't worry , Greece didn't find any gas discoveries in its area :lol:

they will depend on Egypt and Israel gas to import... I guess Turkey chance better to find discoveries in the black sea.

[Graywolf]

I can only imagine what Arab users feel while reading this lol. Anyway ... :thumb001:



Well, it's not treason if your country is in the hands of a madman. I mean it depends how you look at it, is it a treason to let him drive your country into Hell and do nothing? :)

Look what's happening in USA, Trump did somethin which wasnt seen since civil war in USA, it's totally divided, especially if Trump creates somethin never seen in USA history; THIRD PARTY, and he threatens to do it.

P.S. I always thought (and always respected that about Turkey) that your military is guarding your secularism and democracy, and that your military always watch that your country doesn't fall into sharia or whatever similar to that, to any form of Islamic rule over country.

Where is your military now, I mean they were like some sort of "Praetorian guards" in Turkey since Ataturk, I didnt follow latest events from Turkey, so sorry for this question out of the blu, but is your military totally in support of Erdogan politics? I mean... what's going on.

as i told one of the first things erdogan did after receving warnings from Commander in Chief was judging Kemalist officers with fiction accusations and made them rot. He subdued military. Do you think nothing happened? Leftists made hell of a big protests in 2011 all over the country then they also accusated for being terrorists and some escpaed abroad. The reason Turkey is waiting now there is an election coming and it is 80% he is going and if he doesnt i dont wanna think about it.

[Robocop]

as i told one of the first things erdogan did after receving warnings from Commander in Chief was judging Kemalist officers with fiction accusations and made them rot. He subdued military. Do you think nothing happened? Leftists made hell of a big protests in 2011 all over the country then they also accusated for being terrorists and some escpaed abroad. The reason Turkey is waiting now there is an election coming and it is 80% he is going and if he doesnt i dont wanna think about it.

Dont worry, he is going down. IF NOT... Well... you know what advice Arnold left to all of us:

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQRLRavj19RAmZhMI14fDn9sEIhPq_4z 0l2OA&usqp=CAU

[Crn Volk]

Do both hate Iranians?

[Egyptian]

Do both hate Iranians?

No, we don't.

[itilvolga]

I wouldn’t say it’s hatred. We just don’t like to be associated with Arabs that much, because culturally we aren’t that similar, we just share the same religion and its impact is exaggerated when it comes to the relationship between Turks and Arabs. We just have different mindsets. Another reason is historical, an average Turkish feels like his ancestors got betrayed by Arabs during the last period of Ottoman Empire. The last reason that I can count is current migration crisis, which is political. Otherwise we don’t hate Arabs, but we tend to have negative opinions towards them due to several reasons.

[Adamm]

Most Arabs I know admire Turkey, its probably more that secularist Turks hate Arabs because of Islam.

[kaderoran]

Battle of Mostaganem (1558) search it. Morocco wasnt Ottoman soil indeed. they were tributed and vassalized.

The Sultans of Morocco were seeking help from the Spanish and Portuguese to protect them from the Ottomans

[Graywolf]

Do both hate Iranians?

Altough ayetullah is Azeri Turkish (Iran is populated by 30 millions of Azeri Turks). Iran follows a fascist policy and especially in Tebriz (capital of saffavid empire) Turks are nationalists. Both arabs and Iranians admiring Turkey they watch Turkish TV a lot even persians in Iran tries to learn Turkish. Especially Iranians try to immigrate Turkey which are oppressed my mullah regime where they can't even buy beer (arabs are already here so). Yeah Turks don't fancy persians as well. They also support essed which we are fighting against.

[Graywolf]

Iran supported Armenia during Liberation of Karabagh then ersogan went Baku and read a nationalistic poem their fm crrisized Turkey for wanting South (Irani) Azerbaijan. Iranian azeris are organized with Tractor Football club they call themselves Red Wolves and shout Pan Turkist slogans.

[Sora]

I don't hate Arabs at all. Indeed I have many Arab friends and we get on very well with each other. Also hating Arabs for past issues will give us nothing to win. We already have many enemies, so we will add Arabs into that list also? Indeed I love most of Arabs and their languages, even I'm learning it and into Arabic songs nowadays.

Turks hating Arabs is depending on which Arab are they. We have no problem with North African Arabs(both Maghrebi & Egyptian) but when it comes to other Arabs, thoughts get 50/50. 50% of Turks dislike those Arabs dur to past reasons and Islam(mostly Atheists), but the other half has no problem and even love them sometimes. Also there is a recent negativity among Turks against Arabs due to immigration of Syrians because of the war

[Mejgusu]

Do both hate Iranians?

There is more sympathy toward Iran and Iranians. Turks and Iranians have more similarities regarding culture and history, the rivalry between both countries during the history is more considered as rivalry between „siblings“, most Persian dynasties/rulers in the last 500 years were of Turkish origin. Besides of that, for example Atatürk were a big role model for Riza Shah Pahlavi and they had good contacts to each other, both spoke Turkish together.

[Graywolf]

I don't hate Arabs at all. Indeed I have many Arab friends and we get on very well with each other. Also hating Arabs for past issues will give us nothing to win. We already have many enemies, so we will add Arabs into that list also? Indeed I love most of Arabs and their languages, even I'm learning it and into Arabic songs nowadays.

Turks hating Arabs is depending on which Arab are they. We have no problem with North African Arabs(both Maghrebi & Egyptian) but when it comes to other Arabs, thoughts get 50/50. 50% of Turks dislike those Arabs dur to past reasons and Islam(mostly Atheists), but the other half has no problem and even love them sometimes. Also there is a recent negativity among Turks against Arabs due to immigration of Syrians because of the war

I had arab classmates but seen to many treachery then my wise father told me : dont trust the people of captive nations. He lighted the bulb.
About language c'mon arabic is the harshest language i've ever heard. I listened to hebrew it was harsh too but not as harsh as arabic. I seek some corner to escape when I hear quran but nothing to with ezan i continue to be earraped by ezan. Arabs use to many throat wovels they speak like they are drowning. that makes arabic repulsive. ( for addition I ve listene a song about Beirut by a lebanese female singer i liked it btw.)

[Graywolf]

There is more sympathy toward Iran and Iranians. Turks and Iranians have more similarities regarding culture and history, the rivalry between both countries during the history is more considered as rivalry between „siblings“, most Persian dynasties/rulers in the last 500 years were of Turkish origin. Besides of that, for example Atatürk were a big role model for Riza Shah Pahlavi and they had good contacts to each other, both spoke Turkish together.

Pehlevi was Persian altough spoke Turkish. It is because he was general and army language is Turkish in Turkic empires i guess

[Robocop]

I don't hate Arabs at all. Indeed I have many Arab friends and we get on very well with each other. Also hating Arabs for past issues will give us nothing to win. We already have many enemies, so we will add Arabs into that list also? Indeed I love most of Arabs and their languages, even I'm learning it and into Arabic songs nowadays.

Turks hating Arabs is depending on which Arab are they. We have no problem with North African Arabs(both Maghrebi & Egyptian) but when it comes to other Arabs, thoughts get 50/50. 50% of Turks dislike those Arabs dur to past reasons and Islam(mostly Atheists), but the other half has no problem and even love them sometimes. Also there is a recent negativity among Turks against Arabs due to immigration of Syrians because of the war

Is there any record of Arab migrants attacking or molesting Turkish girls? Or medias hide that from you?

[Graywolf]

Is there any record of Arab migrants attacking or molesting Turkiah girls? Or medias hide that from you?

c'mon bud! it happens all the time. People in Istanbul revolted after molesture of a little girl by syrians. Here is the link of video (https://odatv4.com/vid_video.php?id=8G9BH)
Guy says: If i kill him government count him as a human. And we re silent as nation. Did you hear? It hapenned in (L....)district. Did you hear ? No you can't Why beacuse they silence us. I won't silence today! The father of kid tells me 'my children has future(they dont want the molesting spread)!' there is nothing like this! This kid grew up in my hand until she's 11. She called me uncle hugged me. But No! Where will we go until! Tell me! Sisters tell me! Can you walk safe at night huh? They are hanging out in groups consisted of ,10 , 20 men! right? We cannot walk at streets after 23,00! (I translated the viedo up to 1.07) Gotta go i have exam I ll translate the other half if you want.

[Mejgusu]

Pehlevi was Persian altough spoke Turkish. It is because he was general and army language is Turkish in Turkic empires i guess

Because of that i wrote „Besides of that“ after saying many rulers there were Turkish and i think it was quite understandable. Most here have adequate knowledge about history, no need for explanation.

[Kyp]

Pehlevi was Persian altough spoke Turkish. It is because he was general and army language is Turkish in Turkic empires i guess

his mother was Ayrimlu (Azerbaijanis from Georgia originally), After Treaty of Turkmenchay a lot of them migrated to Iran.

[Fedora]

Secular Kemalist Turks hate true Islam and try to associate it with Arabs, they are searching for Arabs that have an anti-Turkish position so they can reaffirm that we should hate them but they have no problem with westernisation and adopting western tradition eventhough majority of the west looks down upon us.

[Robocop]

Secular Kemalist Turks hate true Islam and try to associate it with Arabs, they are searching for Arabs that have an anti-Turkish position so they can reaffirm that we should hate them but they have no problem with westernisation and adopting western tradition eventhough majority of the west looks down upon us.

Are you talking about this Arabs who RAPED 200 German girls in Cologne in 2015 durin New Year's eve? Raped 200 German girls and 1200 of them were sexualy Assaulted, are those the ones who wants to adopt Western tradition?

That BITCH of yours (because Merkel is yours Arab bitch) tried to hide this for a month, but then American press discovered it, for how long do you think Europeans will tolerate this scum, what do you think, give me some period of time for how long?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hl04r1OjRQs

Asking you this because I guess you're an Arab?

[Graywolf]

Secular Kemalist Turks hate true Islam and try to associate it with Arabs, they are searching for Arabs that have an anti-Turkish position so they can reaffirm that we should hate them but they have no problem with westernisation and adopting western tradition eventhough majority of the west looks down upon us.

Sorry but what do you mean western traditions. I think you meant people resisting arabisation of their country by protecting their culture. This country never been that much religious, those are results of Ummahist policies of the government. U cant blame people for wanting to protect their kids from molesting, walking free and safe at streets, go beaches with their families out of the sight of criminals. Sorry just realised how our countrymen are mean to refugees. (!)

[Robocop]

Secular Kemalist Turks hate true Islam and try to associate it with Arabs, they are searching for Arabs that have an anti-Turkish position so they can reaffirm that we should hate them but they have no problem with westernisation and adopting western tradition eventhough majority of the west looks down upon us.

I can only speak from my personal experience FROM WHAT I SAW when traveling troughout Europe, and this is what I saw, this is what I've heard from people living there:

Turkish people ARE IN GENERAL HARD WORKING people in EU, and NO ONE have problems with them, but everyone have problems with Arabs, how is that possible?

Everyone is inventing stuff right?

I dont care for your individual view of Arab person, in general: ARABS DO NOT WANT to asimilate into European OR TURKISH society.

They want to asimilate those societies INTO THEIR SOCIETY.

P.S. And don't give me that bullshits about your brotherhood with Turkish, you're using them only because of religion and because they're strong country, military wise and everything, the truth is; Arab cares only for Arab and you care for your shits very well WHEREVER you go, wherever you go only problems are following you and SOMALI.

Excuse my language, but I dont give a blind fuck what do you think Arabs are in EU, experience of all EU countries (and Turkey) is showing who you are IN GENERAL.

I dont have any problems that Turkish comes to live in Croatia, because I have met TONS of turkish people (both atheists and muslim turkish), even though I wouldn't call them European by culture, I admire their culture and their behaviour NEVER THE LESS.

Just like I admire Chinese or Japanese culture.

Your culture IS SICK, and you have problem in your Arab world, I dont need your fucking problems, take it where you came from. I won't speak here on behalf of Turks, but if I would be turkish, I would go mad to have 9 million of your fuckers in my country like Turkey have right now.

9 FUCKING MILLIONS of you, that's called: INVASION, not migration.

[Tooting Carmen]

While I agree with the fact that Turkey is more liberal and secular than are most Arab nations (though Lebanon and Tunisia at least certainly come close), at the same time let us not be mistaken in thinking that Turkey is like Scandinavia either. In terms of levels of religious observance and social values it is still much more conservative (at least with a small 'c') than most European countries are and not so dramatically different from many Arab nations as hardcore Kemalists like to claim. (Not all Arab nations are like Saudi Arabia or Sudan). Lest we forget, Erdogan was at least initially DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED.

N.B. Though not really the topic of conversation here, when it comes to phenotype Turks look like a mixture of Southern Europeans and Iranians with some Central Asian thrown in. The problem is, however, that a certain proportion of Turks - not least in their soap operas - like to overstate their 'whiteness' to a degree that is practically at telenovela and Bollywood levels of delusion.

[Fedora]

Sorry but what do you mean western traditions. I think you meant people resisting arabisation of their country by protecting their culture. This country never been that much religious, those are results of Ummahist policies of the government. U cant blame people for wanting to protect their kids from molesting, walking free and safe at streets, go beaches with their families out of the sight of criminals. Sorry just realised how our countrymen are mean to refugees. (!)
just reaffirm what i've said. the crusades literally started because of the Turks :D The Turks were doing jihad for 1000 years this is kemalist history revisionism that Turks have never been religious muslim. 100 years ago turkish women would walk around with niqab in Istanbul . How the fuck did the Kemalist protect our culture when it was westernist, secular and republican nationalist. "Kemalism frees Turkish nationalism from the material and moral institutions, customs, and traditions that are contrary to Westernism, secularism, and republicanism." Falih Rifki Atay. You can be traditionalist-conservatist without Islamic internationalism and dogmatism :D
I would say that the country is lesse religious than it ever was with how many people in Turkey identifieing as atheists, like half of the people in social media you interact with are atheist/non-muslim I doubt that was the case 90 years ago.

[Tooting Carmen]

I can only speak from my personal experience FROM WHAT I SAW when traveling troughout Europe, and this is what I saw, this is what I've heard from people living there:

Turkish people ARE IN GENERAL HARD WORKING people in EU, and NO ONE have problems with them, but everyone have problems with Arabs, how is that possible?

Everyone is inventing stuff right?

I dont care for your individual view of Arab person, in general: ARABS DO NOT WANT to asimilate into European OR TURKISH society.

They want to asimilate those societies INTO THEIR SOCIETY.

P.S. And don't give me that bullshits about your brotherhood with Turkish, you're using them only because of religion and because they're strong country, military wise and everything, the truth is; Arab cares only for Arab and you care for your shits very well WHEREVER you go, wherever you go only problems are following you and SOMALI.

Excuse my language, but I dont give a blind fuck what do you think Arabs are in EU, experience of all EU countries (and Turkey) is showing who you are IN GENERAL.

I dont have any problems that Turkish comes to live in Croatia, because I have met TONS of turkish people (both atheists and muslim turkish), even though I wouldn't call them European by culture, I admire their culture and their behaviour NEVER THE LESS.

Just like I admire Chinese or Japanese culture.

Your culture IS SICK, and you have problem in your Arab world, I dont need your fucking problems, take it where you came from. I won't speak here on behalf of Turks, but if I would be turkish, I would go mad to have 9 million of your fuckers in my country like Turkey have right now.

9 FUCKING MILLIONS of you, that's called: INVASION, not migration.

I don't entirely agree with this. While a lot of the Syrian and Iraqi refugees prevalent in much of Europe have certainly been antisocial and criminal, this doesn't mean that the longer-established Turkish populations in Germany, Holland, Belgium, Scandinavia, Austria, Switzerland etc. are that well-integrated, secularised or prosperous either.

[Tooting Carmen]

just reaffirm what i've said. the crusades literally started because of the Turks :D The Turks were doing jihad for 1000 years this is kemalist history revisionism that Turks have never been religious muslim. 100 years ago turkish women would walk around with niqab in Istanbul . How the fuck did the Kemalist protect our culture when it was westernist, secular and republican nationalist. "Kemalism frees Turkish nationalism from the material and moral institutions, customs, and traditions that are contrary to Westernism, secularism, and republicanism." Falih Rifki Atay.
I would say that the country is lesse religious than it ever was with how many people in Turkey identifieing as atheists, like half of the people in social media you interact with are atheist/non-muslim I doubt that was the case 90 years ago.

There is a lot of truth in this. The whole point of the Kemalist project/ideology was to MOVE AWAY from Turkey's religious traditions that had been heavily ingrained until then.

[Graywolf]

I don't entirely agree with this. While a lot of the Syrian and Iraqi refugees prevalent in much of Europe have certainly been antisocial and criminal, this doesn't mean that the longer-established Turkish populations in Germany, Holland, Belgium, Scandinavia, Austria, Switzerland etc. are that well-integrated, secularised or prosperous either.

The Turkish citizens in Europe are not integrated indeed and who claimed that they did ? They were the lowest class of the Turkey at the thats why they left. And for just being them came from Turkey it doesnt make Turk. There are lots of Kurds there. Guestworker of Europe arent welcomed in Turkey when they come to visit here. They are labeled here for being 'slave of germans' it must be a hard situation for them to be not accepted in both of their countries.

[Robocop]

While I agree with the fact that Turkey is more liberal and secular than are most Arab nations (though Lebanon and Tunisia at least certainly come close), at the same time let us not be mistaken in thinking that Turkey is like Scandinavia either.

Why would they be GAYS AND PUSSIES like Scandinavians? God forbid. People who don't want to defend their family and their people DESERVE TO DIE, and scandinavians deserve to die, I can only have pity for those gays there. Turkish have their tradition still, and sence of protection of their people, SALUT.



In terms of levels of religious observance and social values it is still much more conservative (at least with a small 'c') than most European countries are and not so dramatically different from many Arab nations as hardcore Kemalists like to claim. (Not all Arab nations are like Saudi Arabia or Sudan). Lest we forget, Erdogan was at least initially DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED.

Oh my God man..

WELL GOOD that Turkey is not like most of EU countries, GOOD FOR THEM, means they still have some chance to survive.

The only European countries I respect considering their ideology today are; Switzerland, Hungary and Poland. Everyone else; GAYS TO THE CORE, led by greatest gays and pussies in human history; SCANDINAVIANS.

[Graywolf]

I don't entirely agree with this. While a lot of the Syrian and Iraqi refugees prevalent in much of Europe have certainly been antisocial and criminal, this doesn't mean that the longer-established Turkish populations in Germany, Holland, Belgium, Scandinavia, Austria, Switzerland etc. are that well-integrated, secularised or prosperous either.

The Turkish citizens in Europe are not integrated indeed and who claimed that they did ? They were the lowest class of the Turkey at the thats why they left. And for just being them came from Turkey it doesnt make Turk. There are lots of Kurds there. Guestworker of Europe arent welcomed in Turkey when they come to visit here. They are labeled here for being 'slave of germans' it must be a hard situation for them to be not accepted in both of their countries.

[itilvolga]

Is there any record of Arab migrants attacking or molesting Turkish girls? Or medias hide that from you?

I am an alive example, especially during my high school times when they came to my home province with the second wave of the mass migration.

[Robocop]

I don't entirely agree with this. While a lot of the Syrian and Iraqi refugees prevalent in much of Europe have certainly been antisocial and criminal, this doesn't mean that the longer-established Turkish populations in Germany, Holland, Belgium, Scandinavia, Austria, Switzerland etc. are that well-integrated, secularised or prosperous either.

Cammon man... I have seen with my own two eyes, Turkish are respectable and hard working people in Germany.

Many of them have their restaurants, caffe bars etc... They dont bother anyone in general, anyone..., they are doing as much as they can to earn money for their family and have GOOD LIFE, that's it.

If you dont want to know their culture, they're fine with it, if you want, they will open their arms to you with respect and they will NEVER EVER try to convince you to convert to Islam (nevermind are they atheist turkish or muslim turkish).

On the contrary, because of their respectable behaviour I started really to respect Islam because of Muslims LIKE THEM.

Because I would feel like LAST GARBAGE if I would spit on entire Islam knowing how many times I met great turkish muslim or Bosniak people.

You cannot compare Turkish people living in EU with Arab people in any scenario what so ever, they don't belong to same page, not in same book, let alone page.

Cheers :)

[Fedora]

The Turkish citizens in Europe are not integrated indeed and who claimed that they did ? They were the lowest class of the Turkey at the thats why they left. And for just being them came from Turkey it doesnt make Turk. There are lots of Kurds there. Guestworker of Europe arent welcomed in Turkey when they come to visit here. They are labeled here for being 'slave of germans' it must be a hard situation for them to be not accepted in both of their countries.

The average Turk is in Germany/France/Netherland is better off than a average Turk in Turkey. 1960s 70% of the turkish population was rural, so instead of moving to nearby big cities they moved to european big cities.

[Robocop]

I am an alive example, especially during my high school times when they came to my home province with the second wave of the mass migration.

Jesus. Hope they didn't hurt you or somethin

[Tooting Carmen]

Why would they be GAYS AND PUSSIES like Scandinavians? God forbid. People who don't want to defend their family and their people DESERVE TO DIE, and scandinavians deserve to die, I can only have pity for those gays there. Turkish have their tradition still, and sence of protection of their people, SALUT.



Oh my God man..

WELL GOOD that Turkey is not like most of EU countries, GOOD FOR THEM, means they still have some chance to survive.

The only European countries I respect considering their ideology today are; Switzerland, Hungary and Poland. Everyone else; GAYS TO THE CORE, led by greatest gays and pussies in human history; SCANDINAVIANS.

Has it ever occurred to you that the poverty, backwardness and authoritarianism that still unfortunately characterise much of the world derive at least in part because too many people believe in superstitions for which there is no evidence whatsoever, rather than fully embracing science and reason? What makes Turkey distinct from (and superior IMO to) Arab nations is that it is NOT so religious and traditionalist; conversely, however, they are still substantially more so than most Western countries are (and are all the poorer for it). N.B. Yes I know much of the US is very devout too, but that is a special case which is an outlier compared to most other developed nations, and I am sure it is explained at least in part by its demographics - namely, Blacks and Hispanics tend to be more religious than Whites.

Btw, I suggest you read Meera Nanda - her books specifically criticise the dominance of Hinduism in India, especially its politicised variant led by the current Prime Minister Narendra Modi, yet her criticisms of religion and unreason in general apply to a lot of other places too.

[Graywolf]

just reaffirm what i've said. the crusades literally started because of the Turks :D The Turks were doing jihad for 1000 years this is kemalist history revisionism that Turks have never been religious muslim. 100 years ago turkish women would walk around with niqab in Istanbul . How the fuck did the Kemalist protect our culture when it was westernist, secular and republican nationalist. "Kemalism frees Turkish nationalism from the material and moral institutions, customs, and traditions that are contrary to Westernism, secularism, and republicanism." Falih Rifki Atay. You can be traditionalist-conservatist without Islamic internationalism and dogmatism :D
I would say that the country is lesse religious than it ever was with how many people in Turkey identifieing as atheists, like half of the people in social media you interact with are atheist/non-muslim I doubt that was the case 90 years ago.

Cirisidirs sitirdid biy ti tirks hihihihihihih, you tight mouth . Turks has always been qonquestor, since the atilla back before then against china They had a belief called The red apple means qonquering until reaching the sun. one of the biggest reason they ve chosen Islam was Christianism was pacifist and they could continue qonquest with Islam.
I dont give cock about scandinavia, they ve already been SWEDISTAN it must be huge pain in the ass for Descendants of Vikings. And people like you calls us racist, mean , ultra-nattionalist. when a neo nazi guy shoots arabs with ar-15 nobody thinks he s been foreigner in his soil . I dont support this shit btw. He does it because it is the only thing he can spread his scream to globe. And you know cock about Kemalism. Kemalism is tolerant to religons while declaring the science the guide of the civilizations.Poeple were mostly traditional religous then but now they splitted in half as seculars, and arabists. And even Dawkins couldnt convince people to be atheist than Ersogan thanks him he showed us what true Islam is. Turkey will remain Turk no matter what!!! Go back to arab desserts.

[Robocop]

Has it ever occurred to you that the poverty, backwardness and authoritarianism that still unfortunately characterise much of the world derive at least in part because too many people believe in superstitions for which there is no evidence whatsoever, rather than fully embracing science and reason? What makes Turkey distinct from (and superior IMO to) Arab nations is that it is NOT so religious and traditionalist; conversely, however, they are still substantially more so than most Western countries are (and are all the poorer for it). N.B. Yes I know much of the US is very devout too, but that is a special case which is an outlier compared to most other developed nations, and I am sure it is explained at least in part by its demographics - namely, Blacks and Hispanics tend to be more religious than Whites.

Btw, I suggest you read Meera Nanda - her books specifically criticise the dominance of Hinduism in India, especially its politicised variant led by the current Prime Minister Narendra Modi, yet her criticisms of religion and unreason in general apply to a lot of other places too.

Ok, I respect your view and point, but has it ever occurred to you that Arabs are same religious psychoes as Europeans were with Christianity in medievals?

Has it ever occurred to you that Arabs are same religious maniacs today as Christians were in Europe 500 years ago? So I should wait for them to grow up, to mature... in...300 years from now?

P.S. And now I would like to defeat your point about poverty been connected to religious fanatics; Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Oman are one of the most RICHEST COUNTRIES IN WORLD, amongst TOP 20 (if not less), yet... they are one of the worst religious fanatics you will find on face of this planet today.

Today's Saudi Arabia Islam EQUALS SPANISH CHRISTIAN INQUISITION from Medievals, same thing.

[Tooting Carmen]

Cammon man... I have seen with my own two eyes, Turkish are respectable and hard working people in Germany.

Many of them have their restaurants, caffe bars etc... They dont bother anyone in general, anyone..., they are doing as much as they can to earn money for their family and have GOOD LIFE, that's it.

If you dont want to know their culture, they're fine with it, if you want, they will open their arms to you with respect and they will NEVER EVER try to convince you to convert to Islam (nevermind are they atheist turkish or muslim turkish).

On the contrary, because of their respectable behaviour I started really to respect Islam because of Muslims LIKE THEM.

Because I would feel like LAST GARBAGE if I would spit on entire Islam knowing how many times I met great turkish muslim or Bosniak people.

You cannot compare Turkish people living in EU with Arab people in any scenario what so ever, they don't belong to same page, not in same book, let alone page.

Cheers :)

I am not denying that they are generally hard-working etc. I am disputing that they are that well-integrated with their host nations in a cultural and personal sense. This is where debates about migration and integration become very fuzzy and confused: in the UK, Indians are generally more prosperous and academically-achieving than are Caribbeans, yet at the same time usually live in more segregated neighbourhoods, marry out far less and maintain their original cultures and languages much more than Caribbeans do. Thus, take your pick as to who is more 'integrated'?

[itilvolga]

Jesus. Hope they didn't hurt you or somethin

No, it was just a verbal abuse. It doesn't happen for a long time and I also don't hear much from others, I suppose they realized that we don't tolerate such behaviours like Europeans and it may end very dramatically for them.

[Robocop]

I am not denying that they are generally hard-working etc. I am disputing that they are that well-integrated with their host nations in a cultural and personal sense. This is where debates about migration and integration become very fuzzy and confused: in the UK, Indians are generally more prosperous and academically-achieving than are Caribbeans, yet at the same time usually live in more segregated neighbourhoods, marry out far less and maintain their original cultures and languages much more than Caribbeans do. Thus, take your pick as to who is more 'integrated'?

You are trying to relativize things and you know it.

You know damn well that Indians, Chinese or whoever in UK is like 10 000 times more integrated in British society than Arabs, but you dont wont to admit that even though you have nothin to do with Arabs.

[Tooting Carmen]

Ok, I respect your view and point, but has it ever occurred to you that Arabs are same religious psychos as Europeans were with Christianity in medievals?

Has it ever occurred to you that Arabs are same religious maniacs today as Christians were in Europe 500 years ago? So I should wait for them to grow up, to mature... in...300 years from now?

P.S. And now I would like to defeat your point about poverty been connected to religious fanatics; Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Oman are one of the most RICHEST COUNTRIES IN WORLD, amongst TOP 20 (if not less), yet... they are one of the worst religious fanatics you will find on face of this planet today.

Today's Saudi Arabia Islam EQUALS SPANISH CHRISTIAN INQUISITION from Medievals, same thing.

(1) So you do agree with me that religious fanaticism is a real problem then?
(2) Poverty, backwardness and authoritarianism are not all necessarily mutually inclusive: those Gulf Arab nations you mention may be very rich but are extremely authoritarian. (And I think you mean Qatar or UAE, not Oman which doesn't have so much oil and at the same time is a more tolerant society).
(3) The general way in which you attack Western secular liberalism comes across as very self-loathing and morally relativist. As with the now-departed Teutone, it appears that you sympathise with at least some of Muslims' often unjust criticisms of modern Western culture.

[Graywolf]

The average Turk is in Germany/France/Netherland is better off than a average Turk in Turkey. 1960s 70% of the turkish population was rural, so instead of moving to nearby big cities they moved to european big cities.

hahahahaha u are really funny, u pretend like u are turk btw. they moved instead of going big cities.:D:D:D:D:D:D
Germans picked one by one they examined their bodies naked they were poor and rural people with no hope(hereby i dont insult them, i feel sorry for what the ve been trhough). No person who can feed himself and barely provide his needs wont leave his homeland.

[Mejgusu]

The Turkish citizens in Europe are not integrated indeed and who claimed that they did ? They were the lowest class of the Turkey at the thats why they left. And for just being them came from Turkey it doesnt make Turk. There are lots of Kurds there. Guestworker of Europe arent welcomed in Turkey when they come to visit here. They are labeled here for being 'slave of germans' it must be a hard situation for them to be not accepted in both of their countries.

And Turks in Turkey are upper class developed people? A single ass hair of me is more European and developed than whole pseudo Europeans in Turkey together. Turks went to Europe because all governments until then were incompetent to create a industrialized and educated nation which was the target of the founders of the republic. Not even 1000 people with university degrees from Turkey can keep pace the same level like someone here with just a single person with high school degree. And please you shouldn’t forget every Turk who achieved anything studied outside of Turkey and were from poorer regions there.

[Robocop]

No, it was just a verbal abuse. It doesn't happen for a long time and I also don't hear much from others, I suppose they realized that we don't tolerate such behaviours like Europeans and it may end very dramatically for them.

Good. :)

[Graywolf]

And Turks in Turkey are upper class developed people? A single ass hair of me is more European and developed than whole pseudo Europeans in Turkey together. Turks went to Europe because all governments until then were incompetent to create a industrialized and educated nation which was the target of the founders of the republic. Not even 1000 people with university degrees from Turkey can keep pace the same level like someone here with just a single person with high school degree. And please you shouldn’t forget every Turk who achieved anything studied outside of Turkey and were from poorer regions there. On the other hand Turks still are dealing with their identity crisis, even the most backwarded people there, the Saudis, are creating facts. Thats awkward...

For us, Turks in Turkey are lazy, incompetent and backwarded. Turks here sell döner - and vaccine against Corona...

Yeah, yeah go kid yourself. You're too well educated indeed. That's why Germans love you too much.
That explains why love you anti-west erdogan while living in Germany, and hate moderniser Atatürk.

[Mejgusu]

Yeah, yeah go kid yourself. You're too well educated indeed. That's why Germans love you too much.

No, your behavior just shows why the whole world dislikes Turkey. You can suck the balls of all Europeans, Arabs etc, no one will like you.

[Graywolf]

No, your behavior just shows why the whole world dislikes Turkey. You can suck the balls of all Europeans, Arabs etc, no one will like you.

You re the one who licks ersogan and arabs as you can see from my signature i have no claim to be european. Are japanese european,? or are you better now for living in germany? U love ersogan because he's against to people who doesnt accept you to their society.

[Robocop]

No, your behavior just shows why the whole world dislikes Turkey. You can suck the balls of all Europeans, Arabs etc, no one will like you.

:D

This is first time I hear someone dislikes Turkey as in; world.

I will just go from my personal experience (again); my mum was working in Germany long time ago, in hospital, as nurse.

She met a lots of nationalities and ethnics there, and she is simple woman..., she doesnt hate anyone.

She always says that Turkish women there were one of the nicest she met, along with Greek, German, Portugese etc women. In fact she doesnt make any difference between Turkish women and German/Portugese/Greek women she worked with.

If I would tell my mum NOW out of the blu; MUM I will marry Turkish girl tommorow, she would be HAPPY hahah, but if I would say I would marry Arab girl, she would think I went crazy.

Oh and btw she is not racist in any way.

[Mejgusu]

You re the one who licks ersogan and arabs as you can see from my signature i have no claim to be european. Are japanese european,? or are you better now for living in germany? U love ersogan because he's against to people who doesnt accept you to their society.

I am not for anyone in Turkey, you can have the most secular government of the earth, you won’t get developed. Türkiyeli regardless of lifestyle or political views are not able to create a developed nation. Diaspora Turks are.


:D

This is first time I hear someone dislikes Turkey as in; world.

I will just go from my personal experience (again); my mum was working in Germany long time ago, in hospital, as nurse.

She met a lots of nationalities and ethnics there, and she is simple woman..., she doesnt hate anyone.

She always says that Turkish women there were one of the nicest she met, along with Greek, German, Portugese etc women. In fact she doesnt make any difference between Turkish women and German/Portugese/Greek women she worked with.

If I would tell my mum NOW out of the blu; MUM I will marry Turkish girl tommorow, she would be HAPPY hahah, but if I would say I would marry Arab girl, she would think I went crazy.

Oh and btw she is not racist in any way.

No, i do love Turkey. But the people there are ignorant to their own people which just shows how wide spreaded insanity is there. Regardless where you are, people there are not able to rise up and they make other responsible for their own stupidity .

[Tooting Carmen]

You are trying to relativize things and you know it.

You know damn well that Indians, Chinese or whoever in UK is like 10 000 times more integrated in British society than Arabs, but you dont wont to admit that even though you have nothin to do with Arabs.

Most Arabs here are either uni students from the Arabian Peninsula (most return home) or recent refugees from Syria and Iraq (as is common elsewhere in Europe). Tbh I haven't heard anything like the Cologne mass rapes being perpetrated by Arabs here, and in the long-term I doubt they'd be any more poorly-integrated and maladaptive than many Pakistanis and Bangladeshis and even some Indians here are. In fact, according to the Office of National Statistics, Arabs in the UK already marry out at much higher rates than South Asians do, and I doubt that has anything to do with OWD or any nonsense like that, since South Asians themselves practice colourism to at least an equal extent.

[Graywolf]

:D

This is first time I hear someone dislikes Turkey as in; world.

I will just go from my personal experience (again); my mum was working in Germany long time ago, in hospital, as nurse.

She met a lots of nationalities and ethnics there, and she is simple woman..., she doesnt hate anyone.

She always says that Turkish women there were one of the nicest she met, along with Greek, German, Portugese etc women. In fact she doesnt make any difference between Turkish women and German/Portugese/Greek women she worked with.

If I would tell my mum NOW out of the blu; MUM I will marry Turkish girl tommorow, she would be HAPPY hahah, but if I would say I would marry Arab girl, she would think I went crazy.

Oh and btw she is not racist in any way.

I have albanian , paki, kenyan muslim classmates here they all try to communicate with you try to learn Turkish and if they cannot they communicate in English. but never seen an arab trying to integrate society. They live in their ghettos, hang out each other, girls are hijabi already. I tought my albanian friend was christian before i ve seen him praying dude. Religon has never been an issue with talking them nor the cultural differences. But as an immigrant they have to integrate community, they wait us to be like them. No, I wont take that.

[Graywolf]

I am not for anyone in Turkey, you can have the most secular government of the earth, you won’t get developed. Türkiyeli regardless of lifestyle or political views are not able to create a developed nation. Diaspora Turks are.



No, i do love Turkey. But the people there are ignorant to their own people which just shows how wide spreaded insanity is there. Regardless where you are, people there are not able to rise up and they make other responsible for their own stupidity .

HAHAA Diaspora of what döner sellers and garbage men. U have to be educated and well accepted in the society of where you live to creat diaspora. Dude u made me laugh. Atatürk and the other statesman were gastarbeiters too. :D:D:D:D:D:
Here is not Armenia dude first try to take care yourself you can think about that later? I bet you cant speak Turkish btw.

[Tooting Carmen]

I have albanian , paki, kenyan muslim classmates here they all try to communicate with you try to learn Turkish and if they cannot they communicate in English. but never seen an arab trying to integrate society. They live in their ghettos, hang out each other, girls are hijabi already. I tought my albanian friend was christian before i ve seen him praying dude. Religon has never been an issue with talking them nor the cultural differences. But as an immigrant they have to integrate community, they wait us to be like them. No, I wont take that.

Out of curiosity, where do you live?

[Graywolf]

Where I was born in. Also I ve been foreigner too. Never harrased any native nor cursed my countriemen counting myself from where i live shwarzkopf:D:D:D

[Mejgusu]

Edit, it doesnt worth it to discuss with stupid people.

[Ryujin]

While I agree with the fact that Turkey is more liberal and secular than are most Arab nations (though Lebanon and Tunisia at least certainly come close), at the same time let us not be mistaken in thinking that Turkey is like Scandinavia either. In terms of levels of religious observance and social values it is still much more conservative (at least with a small 'c') than most European countries are and not so dramatically different from many Arab nations as hardcore Kemalists like to claim. (Not all Arab nations are like Saudi Arabia or Sudan). Lest we forget, Erdogan was at least initially DEMOCRATICALLY ELECTED.

N.B. Though not really the topic of conversation here, when it comes to phenotype Turks look like a mixture of Southern Europeans and Iranians with some Central Asian thrown in. The problem is, however, that a certain proportion of Turks - not least in their soap operas - like to overstate their 'whiteness' to a degree that is practically at telenovela and Bollywood levels of delusion.

I'm sorry but there is a dramatical difference. No one claims that Turkey is more like Scandinavia, but you can not also deny that there is a dramatical difference between the 'liberal heaven' and some Eastearn European countries who are greatly conservative. For example; Poland has banned abortion (correct me if I'm wrong; I haven't heard of the recent developments), also, they walked out of Istanbul Convention, which is a European agreement that aims to protect women from domestic violence and give them more rights, however it's attacked by many extreme conservatives both in Europe and Turkey for supposedly undermining conservative family values. Whereas even with Erdogan in charge, abortion is still legal in Turkey and we are still a part of the Istanbul Convention. You know what? probably because the secular liberal opposition in Turkey is much more active and well-resistant in Turkey than in Poland. If you look at LGBT rights map as well; Turkey is not any different than East European countries that only legalize homosexual sex and nothing more.

So you can't say Turkey is closer to Arabs because it's far from being Norway. It's not true. Turkey is much closer to East Europe in this case. Populist and authoritarian politicians being elected by ignorant masses is not exclusive to Turkey, but can also be seen in Europe and the US (Poland, Hungary etc.) and not long ago, Germany. The abundance of conservatives does not make us any closer to Arabs. Why? here are some researches done about this issue:

Sharia law: The support for Sharia law ranges from 70 to 90 percent in Arab or Asian Islamic world. In Turkey, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Albania, it's lower than 20 percent.

https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-overview-1.png

Another chart reveals great support for 'death penalty' for leaving Islam in Islamic world, whereas Turkey again clusters with Central Asia and Balkan Muslim populations:

https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/DAHRDPOBNU7QBNFZG5FEXE46E4.jpg

Equal inheritance: Qur'an openly asserts that men should receive more share from the inheritance than women; and that's what most of the Arab/Asian Islamic societies believe in. However, 88 percent of Turks believe in equal inheritance, this time even dramatically higher than Bosnia, Albania and Central Asian secular countries.

https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-chp4-4.png

In Arab world hijab is mostly a taboo and you won't see many women uncovered which is not a thing in Albania, Bosnia, Turkey, Azerbaijan. And let's not forget that the sight of hijabs is way lesser in Turkish cities than in many metropolitan capitals of Europe because of radical Islamic immigrants from Bangladesh, Pakistan and Arab nations.

Kemalist reforms that you are bashing here have mostly been succesful. Just because some women wear hijabs and Turks elect Erdogan do not mean that they were unsuccesful. Erdogan will lose the next elections anyway and Turks will show off a great democratic protest just like in the last Istanbul mayoral election. Remember that in most EU countries public drinking is illegal, which means you can not drink at parks and whatsoever, whereas in Turkey it is not restricted and I always drink with friends at parks and at the seashore sitting on the grass even at midnidght alongside hundreds of people. Street life ends after 8 PM in most EU countries (something most of my friends have observed) but in certain metropolitan cities it is alive 24/7. This is again a dramatical difference with Arabs because you can hardly find alcohol there. And even in Tunisia it's quite hard if you check out travel advices for that country.

Perhaps they try to overstate their whiteness in soap operas, which is bullshit because some uncultured foreigners who have been exposed to Turkish soap operas tend to think that they are made for foreign audience and Turkish propaganda, but in fact they aired decades before than they were exported, and they are primarily for Turkish audience. There are famous Anatolid, Iranid, Turanid and Armenoid actors as well as Alpine, Pontid, Med and Slavic which is not so surprising since there are about 25 million Balkan migrants in Turkey. You say that Turks overlap with Southern Europeans because of Med influence but let's not forget that many Turks have ancestors from Yugoslavia, Bulgaria etc. and just because you see their phenotype in soap operas you think we are whitewashing ourselves which is not true. In daily life when I go out into the street I can bump into a lot of people who look like them and it's not a rare sight. I don't understate the abundance of Anatolids and Armenoids but they are mostly associated with people from Eastern regions, and most people I see in where I live in are mostly Med, Turanid, Alpine and Pontid with some Slavic-looking becuase of Balkan origins.

So stop with your nonsense please.

And in another post you say that Turks have problem integrating into EU countries. That is true for Germany (the main reason being they are mostly descended from underdeveloped rural East) but not for your country, the UK. The British Turks are mostly secular and do not cluster with other Muslim immigrants who practice honor killing and operate legal Sharia courts legalized by your own government. Whereas Turks do not cheer for Sharia courts. Many British people can confirm that Turks are well-adapted into the British society. For example a Turkish actor called Haluk Bilginer had a steady role in the British sopa opera EastEnders and he was not portrayed as a stereotypical Muslim but a rather womanizer and funny Turk and not-so-different than his British friends. That is because Brits, who travel to Turkey and are exposed to Turks in their own countries, are well-aware unlike you, who have a negative agenda against Turks, that Turks are not fanatically Muslim.

[Egyptian]

Robocop is trying that hard to make Turks hate Arabs ..

I don't know what's the opinion of Turks here but no one hates you in Egypt , maybe the regime not the people.

don't let any snake causes hatred between us

[Robocop]

Robocop is trying that hard to make Turks hate Arabs ..

I don't know what's the opinion of Turks here but no one hates you in Egypt , maybe the regime not the people.

don't let any snake causes hatred between us

Im not trying to do that, I just said what I saw from my personal experience and from what I've heard from people troughout Europe.

While vast majority of Europeans respect Turkish people working in their countries, most of those same people doesnt like Arabs, this are facts man, nothin personal. You're kind seem very agressive towards anyone. Nothin personal :)

[Ryujin]

Im not trying to do that, I just said what I saw from my personal experience and from what I've heard from people troughout Europe.

While most of Europeans respect Turkish people working in their countries, most of those same people doesnt like Arabs, this are facts man, nothin personal. You're kind seem very agressive towards anyone. Nothin personal :)

He supports Muslim Brotherhood which is a banned radical Islamist terror group in Egypt and Morsi who attempted to legalize pedophilia and necrophilia. No matter what Turks will not associate with such a person.

He's also cheering for the demolishing of Pyramids, probably due to salafist ISIS mentality.

[Robocop]

He supports Muslim Brotherhood which is a banned radical Islamist terror group in Egypt and Morsi who attempted to legalize pedophilia and necrophilia. No matter what Turks will not associate with such a person.

Well, far as I know (I will find that research); 90% of Egyptians believes that person who leave Islam should be beheaded.

That's enough for me :)

[Ryujin]

Well, far as I know (I will find that research); 90% of Egyptians believes that person who leave Islam should be beheaded.

That's enough for me :)

Well it's good that the Arab regimes have criminalized Muslim Brotherhood. They are a cancer on the earth.

[Egyptian]

Im not trying to do that, I just said what I saw from my personal experience and from what I've heard from people troughout Europe.

While vast majority of Europeans respect Turkish people working in their countries, most of those same people doesnt like Arabs, this are facts man, nothin personal. You're kind seem very agressive towards anyone. Nothin personal :)

I don't care about opinions of people living in a dying contenent .. confess it , europe is dying .. Israel and U.S will make sure Europe is no more.

Israel currently had what it wanted from beginning that arabs recognize it and voila , gulf countries recognized israel and they work together (semitic brothers).

as for Egypt , Since we aren't semitic, we can't do shit but watch .. Turks are our brothers.

[Egyptian]

He supports Muslim Brotherhood which is a banned radical Islamist terror group in Egypt and Morsi who attempted to legalize pedophilia and necrophilia. No matter what Turks will not associate with such a person.

He's also cheering for the demolishing of Pyramids, probably due to salafist ISIS mentality.

IS alcohol affecting your brain ? MB and Salafist and ISIS ? all the 3 in one person ? Lol the 3 hate each others :lol:

go sleep , you need it.

[Egyptian]

Well, far as I know (I will find that research); 90% of Egyptians believes that person who leave Islam should be beheaded.

That's enough for me :)

It's not your problem what happens in Egypt also.

did we come all the way to croatia and told your people do this and do that ? no , why ? because we don't give rat ass about croatia.

[Sebastianus Rex]

It's not your problem what happens in Egypt also.

did we come all the way to croatia and told your people do this and do that ? no , why ? because we don't give rat ass about croatia.

How many christians are in Egypt? How the average muslim Egyptian views them? Is there bad blood or not really?

[Egyptian]

How many christians are in Egypt? How the average muslim Egyptian views them? Is there bad blood or not really?

I don't know the exact numbers of christians in Egypt , probably 3 to 5 millions .. we don't have a specific view about them , they live among us and that's it , if we wanted to wipe them , we would have done it years ago many years ago but no , we don't kill innocent people like for example what happened in the reconqusita or serb war in bosnia etc.

[Robocop]

I don't know the exact numbers of christians in Egypt , probably 3 to 5 millions .. we don't have a specific view about them , they live among us and that's it , if we wanted to wipe them , we would have done it years ago many years ago but no , we don't kill innocent people like for example what happened in the reconqusita or serb war in bosnia etc.

Reconquista happened because you HAPPENED to attack Spain and Christians there, and when you got your Arab ass whiped, here you are.

P.S. Don't you worry about Israel and Europe, Europe won't die as long as Vatican and Israel exists, and I will give you 2 reasons (sorry if they're harsh):

1. Vatican is an evil institution, BUT IT'S MY EVIL, and I love my evil because it is mine, and my evil is stronger than your evil (sharia Islam) like... 10 times over :)

2. Israel will never allow that Arab have their little fingers on French or British Nuclear war-heads, you never thought that somethin else might be goin on:

WHAT IF...

Israel and Deep State satans made you believe that you Arabs are actually winning something (all this decades, from 2001 forward), while in fact, in very near future, you will probably be a cattle for slaughter (either with new virus, or somethin more direct), I think they already have 200% precise plan how to do it.

You should think about this stuff, maybe what you think it's going on, and what everyone thinks what's going... MAYBE... JUST MAYBE... someone wants you and others to think that's going on.

Because... it wouldn't be that obvious.

[Sebastianus Rex]

I don't know the exact numbers of christians in Egypt , probably 3 to 5 millions .. we don't have a specific view about them , they live among us and that's it , if we wanted to wipe them , we would have done it years ago many years ago but no , we don't kill innocent people like for example what happened in the reconqusita or serb war in bosnia etc.

During the Reconquista people were killed in a specific conquest/war context. Muslims were given the chance to convert or leave.

Also don't forget Egypt has one of the oldest christian communities in the world, it was christian territory before it was muslim.

[Egyptian]

Reconquista happened because you HAPPENED to attack Spain and Christians there, and when you got your Arab ass whiped, here you are.

P.S. Don't you worry about Israel and Europe, Europe won't die as long as Vatican and Israel exists, and I will give you 2 reasons (sorry if they're harsh):

1. Vatican is an evil institution, BUT IT'S MY EVIL, and I love my evil because it is mine, and my evil is stronger than your evil (sharia Islam) like... 10 times over :)

2. Israel will never allow that Arab have their little fingers on French or British Nuclear war-heads, you never thought about somethin else might be goin on:

WHAT IF...

Israel and Deep State satans made you believe you Arabs are actually winning something, while in fact, in very near future, you will probably be a cattle for slaughter, I think they already have 200% precise plan how to do it.

You should think about this stuff, maybe what you think it's going on, and what everyone thinks what's going... MAYBE... JUST MAYBE... someone wants you and others to think that's going on.

Delusional as always , Muslims were in Iberia for about 800 years how come we attacked spain and christians suddenly ? :lol:

1- vatican is dying same like europe it's the truth , it's not strong at all , actually a lot of europeans now happening to be atheists , they left the catholic church years ago , even the new generation doesn't know anything about christianity anymore .. don't lie , it's the truth.

2-Israel doesn't care about europe , wanna evidence ? ok .. in 1917 they stood by UK so they can have bolfur promise to establish their land in Palestine and it happened , in 1956 crisis , israel left UK and headed to U.S cuz it saw its weakness in suez canal crisis and Egyptians took it back... after this crisis , U.S became the no1 super power of the world.... in 2020 everything changed again , Netenyahu and gulf countries signed peace agreement , that means israelis are considerd now part of middle east (officially) and that's what they wanted from beginning .. now Netenyahu along with Muhammed Ben Salamn declared Middle east will be the new europe , HE SAID LITERALLY , here is the video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZxDddQ8isg

you still think jews owe anything to europeans? :lol:

[Egyptian]

During the Reconquista people were killed in a specific conquest/war context. Muslims were given the chance to convert or leave.

Also don't forget Egypt has one of the oldest christian communities in the world, it was christian territory before it was muslim.

It was christian due to Greek and Roman influence not because they accepted it... Arabs came and we turned to Islam and some stayed in christianity.

[Robocop]

Delusional as always , Muslims were in Iberia for about 800 years how come we attacked spain and christians suddenly ? :lol:

1- vatican is dying same like europe it's the truth , it's not strong at all , actually a lot of europeans now happening to be atheists , they left the catholic church years ago , even the new generation doesn't know anything about christianity anymore .. don't lie , it's the truth.

2-Israel doesn't care about europe , wanna evidence ? ok .. in 1917 they stood by UK so they can have bolfur promise to establish their land in Palestine and it happened , in 1956 crisis , israel left UK and headed to U.S cuz it saw its weakness in suez canal crisis and Egyptians took it back... after this crisis , U.S became the no1 super power of the world.... in 2020 everything changed again , Netenyahu and gulf countries signed peace agreement , that means israelis are considerd now part of middle east (officially) and that's what they wanted from beginning .. now Netenyahu along with Muhammed Ben Salamn declared Middle east will be the new europe , HE SAID LITERALLY , here is the video.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wZxDddQ8isg

you still think jews owe anything to europeans? :lol:

You dont even know what's coming to you in Africa... oh boy :).

Just to be clear, I dont want that... but it's coming man.. :) It is..

You what's coming to you?


Let me tell you here on forum how will it happen:

You already heard how we cannot produce enough of vaccine for Covid19 for everyone this year, Bill Gates (one of the major satans in Deep State) said that only rich countries will get vaccines this year...

Now check this out;

Durin this year, and next... there is new Covid coming... mutated one, which won't be joke as this one... trust me :)

It will just so happen... it will attack poor countries the most, they dont have enough vaccine... Entire Africa (except for South Africa)...Latin America... poor parts of Asia... new plague is coming...

And no sharia Islam will protect you from it friend :).

Europe is already closing borders to each others, let alone to you.

Europeans became xenophobic to each others not to mention to you.

And all this decades from 2001 till today... what was installed into Europeans and Western world DAILY DAILY DAILY?

That allll of you arabs are terrorists...Alll of you... suspicious...

My God, since Pandemic started I guess Islamic Terrorists decided to wait while pandemic ends, even though they were attacking everywhere like year ago :D.

Floor is ready... everything is prepared...

Almost 8 billion of people in this world...

since Dawn od men until 1950, there was 3 billion of people, and since 1950 till today; ANOTHER 4 BILLION.

Means more people was born in 70 years than in 150 000 years.

Trust me, if I know about this, someone 17 000 times more powerful than me knows it.

And guess what...

Purge won't happen on Europeans :D.

[Ryujin]

Reconquista happened because you HAPPENED to attack Spain and Christians there, and when you got your Arab ass whiped, here you are.

P.S. Don't you worry about Israel and Europe, Europe won't die as long as Vatican and Israel exists, and I will give you 2 reasons (sorry if they're harsh):

1. Vatican is an evil institution, BUT IT'S MY EVIL, and I love my evil because it is mine, and my evil is stronger than your evil (sharia Islam) like... 10 times over :)

2. Israel will never allow that Arab have their little fingers on French or British Nuclear war-heads, you never thought that somethin else might be goin on:

WHAT IF...

Israel and Deep State satans made you believe that you Arabs are actually winning something (all this decades, from 2001 forward), while in fact, in very near future, you will probably be a cattle for slaughter (either with new virus, or somethin more direct), I think they already have 200% precise plan how to do it.

You should think about this stuff, maybe what you think it's going on, and what everyone thinks what's going... MAYBE... JUST MAYBE... someone wants you and others to think that's going on.

Because... it wouldn't be that obvious.

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/hrttHK-KpoNj_jh8dEUKdFiHzhbm-_R52bDKIDfh2J1LCAXJ4ljNtdm2j99OLlWODPLGLrBYx54m1Zs q6GK8ajHwO3R_M9z9SdVVnVrKfpmlWrctwOIHSk-ssnxufavTq4pKyIfpZuhb4xpCKEWM6r-InJYmlbHUCCLUsKcgvw


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWZ9iFnKUJs

[Egyptian]

You dont even know what's coming to you in Africa... oh boy :).

Just to be clear, I dont want that... but it's coming man.. :) It is..

You what's coming to you?


Let me tell you here on forum how will it happen:

You already heard how we cannot produce enough of vaccine for Covid19 for everyone this year, Bill Gates (one of the major satans in Deep State) said that only rich countries will get vaccines this year...

Now check this out;

Durin this year, and next... there is new Covid coming... mutated one, which won't be joke as this one... trust me :)

It will just so happen... it will attack most poor countries the most, they dont have enough vaccine... Entire Africa (except for South Africa)...Latin America... poor parts of Asia... new plague is coming...

And no sharia Islam will protect you from it friend :).

Europe is already closing borders to each others, let alone to you.

Europeans became xenophobic to each others not to mention to you.

And all this decades from 2001 till today... what was installed into Europeans and Western world DAILY DAILY DAILY?

That allll of you arabs are terrorists...Alll of you... suspicious...

My God, since Pandemic started I guess Islamic Terrorists decided to wait while pandemic ends, even though they were attacking everywhere like year ago :D.

Floor is ready... everything is prepared...

Almost 8 billion of people in this world...

since Dawn od men until 1950, there was 3 billion of people, and since 1950 till today; ANOTHER 4 BILLION.

Means more people was born in 70 years than in 150 000 years.

Trust me, if I know about this, someone 17 000 times more powerful than me knows it.

And guess what...

Purge won't happen on Europeans :D.

What Corona? :lol: dude , I was infected by Corona and my entire family and Alhmdoullah we all were fine and it didn't even affect our appetit :lol: .. Egyptian have strong immunity due to what we used to eat in the past :lol:

compare Egyptian Deaths to Europe Deaths :lol: ...

[Robocop]

What Corona? :lol: dude , I was infected by Corona and my entire family and Alhmdoullah we all were fine and it didn't even affect our appetit :lol: .. Egyptian have strong immunity due to what we used to eat in the past :lol:

compare Egyptian Deaths to Europe Deaths :lol: ...

This version of Covid19 is shit what's coming.

And you can be sure it's coming, real dangerous virus, and it just so happens... poor countries and continents will get it most.

What do you thought?

Deep State Satans who run this world for 100 years will GIVE YOU... TO YOUUUUUU, TO ARABS :D A CONTROL over this world?

hahahahahahahhahahah

You don't have a fucking clue with whom you dealing with when it comes about them, NO FUCKING CLUE.

And if you were smart (which you're not, because you are sharia muslim lunatic), you would say; HEY... let's fight them togethar... but nooooo... you are spreading Islam :D.

[Tooting Carmen]

I'm sorry but there is a dramatical difference. No one claims that Turkey is more like Scandinavia, but you can not also deny that there is a dramatical difference between the 'liberal heaven' and some Eastearn European countries who are greatly conservative. For example; Poland has banned abortion (correct me if I'm wrong; I haven't heard of the recent developments), also, they walked out of Istanbul Convention, which is a European agreement that aims to protect women from domestic violence and give them more rights, however it's attacked by many extreme conservatives both in Europe and Turkey for supposedly undermining conservative family values. Whereas even with Erdogan in charge, abortion is still legal in Turkey and we are still a part of the Istanbul Convention. You know what? probably because the secular liberal opposition in Turkey is much more active and well-resistant in Turkey than in Poland. If you look at LGBT rights map as well; Turkey is not any different than East European countries that only legalize homosexual sex and nothing more.

So you can't say Turkey is closer to Arabs because it's far from being Norway. It's not true. Turkey is much closer to East Europe in this case. Populist and authoritarian politicians being elected by ignorant masses is not exclusive to Turkey, but can also be seen in Europe and the US (Poland, Hungary etc.) and not long ago, Germany. The abundance of conservatives does not make us any closer to Arabs. Why? here are some researches done about this issue:

Sharia law: The support for Sharia law ranges from 70 to 90 percent in Arab or Asian Islamic world. In Turkey, Azerbaijan, Bosnia and Albania, it's lower than 20 percent.

https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-overview-1.png

Another chart reveals great support for 'death penalty' for leaving Islam in Islamic world, whereas Turkey again clusters with Central Asia and Balkan Muslim populations:

https://arc-anglerfish-washpost-prod-washpost.s3.amazonaws.com/public/DAHRDPOBNU7QBNFZG5FEXE46E4.jpg

Equal inheritance: Qur'an openly asserts that men should receive more share from the inheritance than women; and that's what most of the Arab/Asian Islamic societies believe in. However, 88 percent of Turks believe in equal inheritance, this time even dramatically higher than Bosnia, Albania and Central Asian secular countries.

https://assets.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2013/04/gsi2-chp4-4.png

In Arab world hijab is mostly a taboo and you won't see many women uncovered which is not a thing in Albania, Bosnia, Turkey, Azerbaijan. And let's not forget that the sight of hijabs is way lesser in Turkish cities than in many metropolitan capitals of Europe because of radical Islamic immigrants from Bangladesh, Pakistan and Arab nations.

Kemalist reforms that you are bashing here have mostly been succesful. Just because some women wear hijabs and Turks elect Erdogan do not mean that they were unsuccesful. Erdogan will lose the next elections anyway and Turks will show off a great democratic protest just like in the last Istanbul mayoral election. Remember that in most EU countries public drinking is illegal, which means you can not drink at parks and whatsoever, whereas in Turkey it is not restricted and I always drink with friends at parks and at the seashore sitting on the grass even at midnidght alongside hundreds of people. Street life ends after 8 PM in most EU countries (something most of my friends have observed) but in certain metropolitan cities it is alive 24/7. This is again a dramatical difference with Arabs because you can hardly find alcohol there. And even in Tunisia it's quite hard if you check out travel advices for that country.

Perhaps they try to overstate their whiteness in soap operas, which is bullshit because some uncultured foreigners who have been exposed to Turkish soap operas tend to think that they are made for foreign audience and Turkish propaganda, but in fact they aired decades before than they were exported, and they are primarily for Turkish audience. There are famous Anatolid, Iranid, Turanid and Armenoid actors as well as Alpine, Pontid, Med and Slavic which is not so surprising since there are about 25 million Balkan migrants in Turkey. You say that Turks overlap with Southern Europeans because of Med influence but let's not forget that many Turks have ancestors from Yugoslavia, Bulgaria etc. and just because you see their phenotype in soap operas you think we are whitewashing ourselves which is not true. In daily life when I go out into the street I can bump into a lot of people who look like them and it's not a rare sight. I don't understate the abundance of Anatolids and Armenoids but they are mostly associated with people from Eastern regions, and most people I see in where I live in are mostly Med, Turanid, Alpine and Pontid with some Slavic-looking becuase of Balkan origins.

So stop with your nonsense please.

And in another post you say that Turks have problem integrating into EU countries. That is true for Germany (the main reason being they are mostly descended from underdeveloped rural East) but not for your country, the UK. The British Turks are mostly secular and do not cluster with other Muslim immigrants who practice honor killing and operate legal Sharia courts legalized by your own government. Whereas Turks do not cheer for Sharia courts. Many British people can confirm that Turks are well-adapted into the British society. For example a Turkish actor called Haluk Bilginer had a steady role in the British sopa opera EastEnders and he was not portrayed as a stereotypical Muslim but a rather womanizer and funny Turk and not-so-different than his British friends. That is because Brits, who travel to Turkey and are exposed to Turks in their own countries, are well-aware unlike you, who have a negative agenda against Turks, that Turks are not fanatically Muslim.

(1) I already clearly acknowledged that Turkey is more secular and liberal than most Arab nations, even if not to those extreme extents as mentioned in the surveys you posted.
(2) The only place in Britain with a very large Turkish population is North and East London, so it is not as if Turkish immigration is much of an issue here either way.
(3) I also agree and acknowledge that Turkey is many times more liberal and secular than Pakistan and Bangladesh.
(4) I am one of the least racist people on this forum, and certainly don't blanketly oppose immigration like many others do, so I have no special animosity towards either Turks or Arabs.
(5) Fyi I have visited Istanbul, and yes I did notice that there were fewer ladies wearing hijab than I see in many British cities.
(6) On the other hand, there is something indeed a bit OWD in being happy with 19 million Balkan immigrants but not 3 million Arab ones.
(7) And when I said Turks are part-Southern European, I was referring to the Balkans.

[Egyptian]

This version of Covid19 is shit what's coming.

And you can be sure it's coming, real dangerous virus, and it just so happens... poor countries and continents will get it most.

What do you thought?

Deep State Satans who run this world for 100 years will GIVE YOU... TO YOUUUUUU, TO ARABS :D A CONTROL over this world?

hahahahahahahhahahah

You don't have a fucking clue with whom you dealing with when it comes about them, NO FUCKING CLUE.

Satans or Donkeys I don't care and I didn't even say we will take control of the world :lol: I said Europe is dying and it's already dying , no jobs , poor economy , shitty weather , much population , corona , etc ....

Covid and his brothers can come to Egypt , you all are welcome :lol: still , we have fewer deaths than all Europe :lol:

[Robocop]

Satans or Donkeys I don't care and I didn't even say we will take control of the world :lol: I said Europe is dying and it's already dying , no jobs , poor economy , shitty weather , much population , corona , etc ....

Covid and his brothers can come to Egypt , you all are welcome :lol: still , we have fewer deaths than all Europe :lol:

Well DEATH is your middle name in Arab world. :D

You have more deaths in Arab world with or without any pandemic than entire world combine. lol

Ofcourse you have fewer deaths, because no one gives a fuck to even count it when it comes about Egypt.

[Ryujin]

(1) I already clearly acknowledged that Turkey is more secular and liberal than most Arab nations, even if not to those extreme extents as mentioned in the surveys you posted.
(2) The only place in Britain with a very large Turkish population is North and East London, so it is not as if Turkish immigration is much of an issue here either way.
(3) I also agree and acknowledge that Turkey is many times more liberal and secular than Pakistan and Bangladesh.
(4) I am one of the least racist people on this forum, and certainly don't blanketly oppose immigration like many others do, so I have no special animosity towards either Turks or Arabs.
(5) Fyi I have visited Istanbul, and yes I did notice that there were fewer ladies wearing hijab than I see in many British cities.
(6) On the other hand, there is something indeed a bit OWD in being happy with 19 million Balkan immigrants but not 3 million Arab ones.
(7) And when I said Turks are part-Southern European, I was referring to the Balkans.

1 - You asserted that there was not a dramatical difference, and I showed you some proof that there indeed is a dramatical difference.
2 - There's about half a million Turks in Britain (larger than the Bangladeshi population in the UK), including Cypriot Turks, but they don't live in ghettos and go to legal Sharia courts and do not 'bat an eye', which indicate that they are well-assimilated.
3 - Incomparably.
4 - I know that you are liberal, and you're judging Turkey based on Scandinavian standards, but I notice that you overlook the massive conservatism in Eastern Europe which is as much a far cry from the Scandinavian level as Turkey.
5 - Okay, that's cool. Next time I'd welcome you in Izmir.
6 - Ah, sorry, it's not owd. Balkan immigrants identified as Turks like me, so they were our people and they didn't cause any problem. But again, you're right, Syrian immigrants cause disruption among the society so I'd prefer other types of immigrants, I'm not gonna lie about it.
7 - Okay.

[Egyptian]

Well DEATH is your middle name in Arab world. :D

You have more deaths in Arab world with or without any pandemic than entire world combine. lol

Ofcourse you have fewer deaths, because no one gives a fuck to even count it when it comes about Egypt.

:lol: oh trust me , we count .. on the other hand , Europe stopped counting after 3000 or 4000 deaths per day in Italy or UK or whatever :lol:

History tells , only wars can cause chaos in middle east , no plague and nothing else can cause chaos , will european history is full of panademics and diseases and illness ( Corona, Spanish Flu , bubonic plague or The Plague of Justinian) etc. dude , etcccccc

[Tooting Carmen]

Btw, the OP used to hate Turks as well and call them Europe's principal enemy throughout history.

[Egyptian]

Btw, the OP used to hate Turks as well and call them Europe's principal enemy throughout history.

Oh I know , He just saw I carry respect to Turks and wanted to demolish any friendship between me and turks members here.

I know his game.

[Robocop]

Btw, the OP used to hate Turks as well and call them Europe's principal enemy throughout history.

I said I can have respect for enemy from the past, and it can be vice versa.

I don't deny that I am big fan of Byzantine Empire, and ofcourse Im sorry it fell, but past is past.

[Robocop]

Btw, the OP used to hate Turks as well and call them Europe's principal enemy throughout history.

Oh, by the way... I did was saying how I considered Ottoman Empire as the enemy of Europe once, so what? It's not like you discover some hot water with this.

But I discover something now about you which I didnt know before, you're one of those who stab you in the back.

All this years on inbox; Robocop how are you, this and that, where are you etc... etc... and now... without any reason what so ever you felt the urge to write something like that on the thread which was purely Historical based and not enough researched on this forum.

It shows me a lot about you as a person; whoever doesn't agree with you on somethin, you will stab him in the back when suits you, well guess what, I remember, and I don't like people without honour, so please, spare me any messages as some... so called FRIEND from now on. Cheers mate :)

[itilvolga]

Why is it impossible to have a calm discussion on this forum? Robocop I think you got the answer so please close the thread for god's sake. It's getting unpleasant.

[Ryujin]

For Robocop:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyXnR-t0FIU

[Tooting Carmen]

Oh, by the way... I did was saying how I considered Ottoman Empire as the enemy of Europe once, so what? It's not like you discover some hot water with this.

But I discover something now about you which I didnt know before, you're one of those who stab you in the back.

All this years on inbox; Robocop how are you, this and that, where are you etc... etc... and now... without any reason what so ever you felt the urge to write something like that on the thread which was purely Historical based and not enough researched on this forum.

It shows me a lot about you as a person; whoever doesn't agree with you on somethin, you will stab him in the back when suits you, well guess what, I remember, and I don't like people without honour, so please, spare me any messages as some... so called FRIEND from now on. Cheers mate :)

Robocop: I still like you and find our discussions interesting. I was just rather surprised by this volte face in terms of your attitudes towards Turkey and its people.

[Korialstrasz]

Disclaimer: I don´t have any problems with individuals. Many Arabs are quite cool and I generally exclude Morocco/Tunisia below.

Arabs represent pretty much everything I do not want to be associated with. Islam, decadence, degeneration, mindless politicization, all of which are portents to the non-existence of civilization... Hence, Arabs have always been my primary object of hate.

Many Turks are very quick to dismiss that they are slowly being Arabized, it really has picked up pace as the demographics changed (read: Arabized Anatolians multiplying and migrating to Western cities).
What they (we... whatever) do not want to accept is that if you sever yourself from the West with the aim of "preserving the Turkish culture", your destination is going to be Arabs. Turkish culture is not strong enough to sustain itself. It never was. No legacy to build upon other than conquests, it just cannot be a viable alternative to its competitors. I really do not say this just for the sake of being offensive, most of the Turks are either too young or too incapable to observe this. I see that, many Turks with good intentions try to salvage some sort of Turkish identity (this is pretty much what Atatürk tried btw) but it is just impossible to find anything significant that is not infected with Arabism.

While it may seem that politicization of individuals is a sign of general soceital awareness, Turkish youth is taking the conviction route. There is a stock of millions of young and stupid people possessed by idiotic ideologies. Ultra secularists, ultra nationalists ultra islamists, the list is occupied with ultras. I regard this as a global trend but it has a more pronounced effect in middle eastern countries where soceital fault lines are very active.

It may not be directly apparent and it may even be happening independently of Erdogan´s policies,but there is a (not very) subtle trend towards complete Arabization and it is mostly prevalent in the Turkish mindset. It is not necessarily Islamic, but it rather manifests itself in the degeneration of the society. Even seculars are Arab in many ways. After a while political affiliation becomes the only identity, civil institutions start to unravel, the rule of law wavers, nepotism runs rampart, corruption becomes the norm rather than the exception and you only see and feel the repercussions too late, which seems to be a recurring theme in Arab countries. Without any proper social contract with which to maintain a resemblance of a society, they degrade to shitholes that menace the regional stability. 4million + Syrians that are going to be 8 million in 25 years are definitely not going to help with this.

There is no reconciliation between Islam and and others, it is just not possible. Islam is in a constant state of war with pretty much everything civilized. It is a losing battle in every aspect, it happened in pretty much every Islamic country that had a secular past and Turkey will lose it eventually, too. Watered down or castrated forms of Islam are only going to be adopted by a meek minority that cannot suck it up and leave Islam altogether.

Long story short: The hatred is real if you are not buying the pan-Islamist nonsense, because it threatens your very existence as a civilized being.

[Robocop]

Why is it impossible to have a calm discussion on this forum? Robocop I think you got the answer so please close the thread for god's sake. It's getting unpleasant.

It's not impossible, there are still good users and people here. But if admins wants, they can close the thread.

[Babak]

Lol at the idiot that claimed persians committed genocide

[chinshen]

I don't know the exact numbers of christians in Egypt , probably 3 to 5 millions .. we don't have a specific view about them , they live among us and that's it , if we wanted to wipe them , we would have done it years ago many years ago but no , we don't kill innocent people like for example what happened in the reconqusita or serb war in bosnia etc.

Copts population according to WIKIPDEIA is about 10 million out of the total Egyptian population of 100 million.
How do you explain them going from 100% to 10%?

[Egyptian]

Copts population according to WIKIPDEIA is about 10 million out of the total Egyptian population of 100 million.
How do you explain them going from 100% to 10%?

I don't know , maybe converting to Islam ? :lol:

if you wanna say there is a genocide happened to them , could you inform me when and in which city that happened?

[Hamilcar]

Copts population according to WIKIPDEIA is about 10 million out of the total Egyptian population of 100 million.
How do you explain them going from 100% to 10%?

Christians have never been genocided that wouldn't have make sense for people who used to perceive the jizya from dhimmis. They simply went through a process of islamization where muslims were economically favored and arabs also used to take "clients" as hostage who received an islamic education and then were sent back to their families and used as missionaries

[Ryujin]

Oh, by the way... I did was saying how I considered Ottoman Empire as the enemy of Europe once, so what? It's not like you discover some hot water with this.

But I discover something now about you which I didnt know before, you're one of those who stab you in the back.

All this years on inbox; Robocop how are you, this and that, where are you etc... etc... and now... without any reason what so ever you felt the urge to write something like that on the thread which was purely Historical based and not enough researched on this forum.

It shows me a lot about you as a person; whoever doesn't agree with you on somethin, you will stab him in the back when suits you, well guess what, I remember, and I don't like people without honour, so please, spare me any messages as some... so called FRIEND from now on. Cheers mate :)

A lot of Turks (Kemalists) are not fans of the Ottoman Empire themselves. Just because you don't like Ottomans doesn't mean you're anti-Turk.

It's true that none of the former subjects of Ottomans remembers them with pride. Even Turks are divided about this.

Ottomans = A dynasty. I don't see why one should be proud of a dynasty. Royal families always thought about their own well-being and didn't give a fuck about the common people.

[Ryujin]

Lol at the idiot that claimed persians committed genocide

Who said that? I must've missed.

[Kivan]

=
(6) On the other hand, there is something indeed a bit OWD in being happy with 19 million Balkan immigrants but not 3 million Arab ones.


That comparison makes zero sense. The vast majority of "Balkan immigrants" in Turkey are ethnic Turks from present day Greece and Bulgaria. Many who faced discrimination over there and even had relatives murdered by local "nationalists".

[Östsvensk]

An Arab says here below at 4:10 that he would slap his wife if he came home and she watched a Turkish show.

https://www.memri.org/tv/lebanese-man-wife-beating-debate-refuses-to-have-sex-so-i-rape-her-with-violence

Why use a blonde doll for the demonstration?

[Graywolf]

Horny hijabis are mostly into Turkish actors on soup operas. I think thats why the guy is jealous. Arabs are the biggest audience of Turkish soup operas so smart directors pick swarthy and bearded actors. The only adultery they can see is on Turkish soup operas so they are too popular. Even in greece and ukraine they have audience.

[Fedora]

That comparison makes zero sense. The vast majority of "Balkan immigrants" in Turkey are ethnic Turks from present day Greece and Bulgaria. Many who faced discrimination over there and even had relatives murdered by local "nationalists".

In the Balkan war 80% of the turkish villages in Macedonia were burned down and told to leave. they were not immigrants but refugees.

[Negah]

I think definitely more Turks hate arabs than the other way around

I reckon the relationship between the Arab world and Turkey is much more complex. Because the Ottoman period which lasted from 1299 to 1922 ( 623 years) went through very different phases and periods.

The Ottoman era is complex, it started out as a highly tolerant, multiethnic, complex, and glorious dynasty. One can argue this period lasted 300 years and then after the reign of Suleiman the Magnificent the Ottoman rule slowly decayed and became highly intolerant, and rigid over the ensuing 300 years.

Essentially totally opposite to how it started out.

In the end, the rules of Abdulaziz and Abdul Hamid II were nothing short of a disaster and the stage was set for its collapse after World War I.

Levantine Arabs still vividly recall Djemal Pasha who was commonly known as Jamal Basha as-Saffah or Jamal Pasha the Bloodthirsty, who also committed the Armenian genocide, killed and butchered Arab Christians and Muslims during the time when he was the Governor of Syria.

Arabs certainly mistrust the Turks and their intentions. The Turks like Iranians look down on the Arabs and feel superior to them. In fact, both Iranians and the Turks have imperial ambition over the Arabs and the Arabs are well aware of that.

[Negah]

Same as Persian and Arab animosity. It never made sense to me, like how do you hate Arabs yet worship an Arab god and fashion your lifestyle after that of an Arabian prophet?

Iranians don't hate Arabs, I am not sure where you get this. Iranians certainly feel superior to the Arabs and feel Isolated in the region since they are outnumbered significantly by the Arabs. Hate is just not accurate.

The history of Iranians and Arabs is much more complex than that. I mean Iranians and Arabs have never fought each other based on their ethnic differences.

Iran wants to rule the Arab world for various historical reasons, why would they hate them if they want to rule them.

[Negah]

Well hate between Persians (primary Iran) and Arabs rest in Sunni vs Shia...

But Im talking here about something totally different, the fact that Turks were killing Arabs like flies durin Ottoman Empire.

Paradox is that Ottomans were even more friendly toward Christians in their Empire than to Arabs. IN GENERAL.

There are Shia Arabs in Iraq, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Kuwait, and a few other Arab countries. The Shia and Sunni rivalry is not an Iranian and Arab rivalry. Again it is more complex than that.

The reason Iran became a Shia nation was a political one and the rise of the Ottomans in the 16th century as one the most powerful country in the world was a direct threat to Iran and Shah Ismail I used Shiasm to unify Iranians to prevent the Ottomans from ruling over Iran.

Ottoman empire expansion was initially in the Balkan and the Chrisitan world. It was Iran's rise that brought the Turks to the Arab world. This was done to prevent Iran from expanding into the Arab world since there was no power in the Arab world that could defend itself against Iran.

[chinshen]

Christians have never been genocided that wouldn't have make sense for people who used to perceive the jizya from dhimmis. They simply went through a process of islamization where muslims were economically favored and arabs also used to take "clients" as hostage who received an islamic education and then were sent back to their families and used as missionaries

Christians suffered many continuous genocides from all different Muslim ethnic groups spare none. That process of Islamization that you mentioned included physical genocide in addition to the economic one.
It does make a lot of sense, you just answer the question why the Christian population went from 100% to 10% for the Copts and to less than 1% or even close to 0% in the case of Assyrians and other non Muslim minorities in some of their original countries.

My analogy to it is like that in the US where when someone wins the lottery, the person you can chose to take a 30 year payments or can chose to take a reduced lump sum where he/she doesn't have to wait for 30 years to collect all the money.

You are right in saying that they were used as cash cows, but then some of the Muslim rulers and their Muslim population wanted instant economic advantage so the genocides were a fast way to collect.

[Negah]

Christians suffered many continuous genocides from all different Muslim ethnic groups spare none. That process of Islamization that you mentioned included physical genocide in addition to the economic one.
It does make a lot of sense, you just answer the question why the Christian population went from 100% to 10% for the Copts and to less than 1% or even close to 0% in the case of Assyrians and other non Muslim minorities in some of their original countries.

My analogy to it is like that in the US where when someone wins the lottery, the person you can chose to take a 30 year payments or can chose to take a reduced lump sum where he/she doesn't have to wait for 30 years to collect all the money.

You are right in saying that they were used as cash cows, but then some of the Muslim rulers and their Muslim population wanted instant economic advantage so the genocides were a fast way to collect.

Are YOU asking why Copts were Islamized and Arabized in Egypt?

[Hamilcar]

Christians suffered many continuous genocides from all different Muslim ethnic groups spare none. That process of Islamization that you mentioned included physical genocide in addition to the economic one.
It does make a lot of sense, you just answer the question why the Christian population went from 100% to 10% for the Copts and to less than 1% or even close to 0% in the case of Assyrians and other non Muslim minorities in some of their original countries.

My analogy to it is like that in the US where when someone wins the lottery, the person you can chose to take a 30 year payments or can chose to take a reduced lump sum where he/she doesn't have to wait for 30 years to collect all the money.

You are right in saying that they were used as cash cows, but then some of the Muslim rulers and their Muslim population wanted instant economic advantage so the genocides were a fast way to collect.


No offense but I think you don't really understand what genocide means or imply :

genocide
noun [ U ]
UK /ˈdʒen.ə.saɪd/ US /ˈdʒen.ə.saɪd/

the murder of a whole group of people, especially a whole nation, race, or religious group

[chinshen]

Are YOU asking why Copts were Islamized and Arabized in Egypt?

No, I was asking Hamilcar for his explanation of why Copts population dropped from 100% to less than 10% in one thousand years of Muslim rule.
He claimed that there was never any genocide committed against the indigenous Christian MENA populations by their Muslim rulers.

[Negah]

No, I was asking Hamilcar for his explanation of why Copts population dropped from 100% to less than 10% in one thousand years of Muslim rule.
He claimed that there was never any genocide committed against the indigenous Christian MENA populations by their Muslim rulers.

There have been periods of intolerance, forced conversion, and persecution of the Christian communities in the middle east. Unfortunately, this is even true today in the middle east where you have various extremist movements within the Islamic world.

[chinshen]

No offense but I think you don't really understand what genocide means or imply :

genocide
noun [ U ]
UK /ˈdʒen.ə.saɪd/ US /ˈdʒen.ə.saɪd/

the murder of a whole group of people, especially a whole nation, race, or religious group

No offense taken, I know very well what genocide means.
It includes indiscriminate mass killing of the conquered indigenous population, obliterating their cultural heritage (Language, Religion, way of life), economic appropriation and displacement of the whoever survives the mass killing where it results in becoming a small minority or disappearing all together where they used to be the majority.

[Hamilcar]

No offense taken, I know very well what genocide means.
It includes indiscriminate mass killing of the conquered indigenous population, obliterating their cultural heritage (Language, Religion, way of life), economic appropriation and displacement of the whoever survives the mass killing where it results in becoming a small minority or disappearing all together where they used to be the majority.

exactly but these christians never faced such treatment, it's simply unproductive

[Negah]

exactly but these christians never faced such treatment, it's simply unproductive

What are your ethnicity and nationality? Are you an Egyptian?

[Hamilcar]

What are your ethnicity and nationality? Are you an Egyptian?

I'm moroccan of belgian nationality Sir

[chinshen]

exactly but these christians never faced such treatment, it's simply unproductive

Can you answer my question then please?
You seemed to be in denial. I just don't exactly know if you are convinced of what you are saying, or just trying to cover things up.
A lot of people seem to have the attitude that their shit doesn't stink, only other people's shit stink and always try to dress it up nicely or just outright denial.

[chinshen]

There have been periods of intolerance, forced conversion, and persecution of the Christian communities in the middle east. Unfortunately, this is even true today in the middle east where you have various extremist movements within the Islamic world.

You are probably right, but we can't just cover up bad things that happened because of good deeds of the few.
We need to be objective and look at the whole picture in perspective. Let us be brave and not muddy historical facts and let us just try to say thing as they are.
That fact that any population has been decimated after been conquered speaks loudly for itself, we don't need to burry our heads in the sand.

[Hamilcar]

Can you answer my question then please?
You seemed to be in denial. I just don't exactly know if you are convinced of what you are saying, or just trying to cover things up.
A lot of people seem to have the attitude that their shit doesn't stink, only other people's shit stink and always try to dress it up nicely or just outright denial.

you don't understand, I'm not saying christian minorities never faced discrimination or persecutions but talking about genocide is far-fetched and simply false.


I'm not even muslim btw so why would I be in denial ?

[chinshen]

you don't understand, I'm not saying christian minorities never faced discrimination or persecutions but talking about genocide is far-fetched and simply false.


I'm not even muslim btw so why would I be in denial ?

I think you are the one who either does not understand or doesn't want to understand.
I will repeat it again, how do you explain MENA Christian population dropping from 100% to below 10% and many disappearing all together.

Let me see, don't tell me communal mass suicides and donating all their wealth and possessions to their conquerors.

[TheGoldenSon]

It doesn't make sense to hate millions of modern people because of events that happened 1 century ago...

and arabs can easily make the same kind of list, these childish fights are a waste of time

"The stab in the back" myth is a powerful poison which doesn't leave the national body for decades, even centuries in some cases. The Arab Rebellion against Caliphate was the reason why the Ottoman underbelly collapsed, reason why over 2 million Turks died during the later Anatolian Unification led by Ataturk and why Turkey had to give up on some of the oil rich regions on the planet after centuries of administration.

[chinshen]

"The stab in the back" myth is a powerful poison which doesn't leave the national body for decades, even centuries in some cases. The Arab Rebellion against Caliphate was the reason why the Ottoman underbelly collapsed, reason why over 2 million Turks died during the later Anatolian Unification led by Ataturk and why Turkey had to give up on some of the oil rich regions on the planet after centuries of administration.

The oil rich regions were not part of Tukey, but were parts of Ottoman empire. Unless you are equating the current country of Turkey with the Ottoman empire which some Turkish members here try to distance.

[Graywolf]

The oil rich regions were not part of Tukey, but were parts Ottoman empire. Unless you are equating the current country of Turkey with the Ottoman empire which some Turkish members here try to distance.

No, Bosnian guy is right. We had to leave predominanatly Mosul after Treaty of Lozan (Mosul problem postponed) because British backed Zealout Kurd Rebellion. And while army was struggling with rebellious bastards we had to make Ankara Treaty which gives us %10 of Petroleum income of Mosul. Later another Kurd Ismet İnönü took 10 years payment and relinquished other rights.

[chinshen]

No, Bosnian guy is right. We had to leave predominanatly Mosul after Treaty of Lozan (Mosul problem postponed) because British backed Zealout Kurd Rebellion. And while army was struggling with rebellious bastards we had to make Ankara Treaty which gives us %10 of Petroleum income of Mosul. Later another Kurd Ismet İnönü took 10 years payment and relinquished other rights.

You are right, I am aware of the treaties that you mentioned. I am just questioning the part about Mosul and other oil rich lands being part of Turkey. True they were part of Ottoman empire, but were not parts of current Turkey as a country.

[Graywolf]

You are right, I am aware of the treaties that you mentioned. I am just questioning the part about Mosul and other oil rich lands being part of Turkey. True they were part of Ottoman empire, but were not parts of current Turkey as a country.

No they were (actually Mosul which Nationalist Turks and Turkmens fight still against commies) as part of Turkey as Istanbul. The borders of New Turkish state actually determined on the last meeting of Ottoman Parliement after WW1. (including Mosul. Batumi part of East Trachia and Antioch) and invasions of predominantly Turk soil refused. They also didnt approved the Treaty of Sevres which signed by collobarationist bastard government (gigachads) so Allies invaded Istanbul and arrested patriot deputies. The reason I am telling this all is Mosul is Turkish mainland which Mustafa Kemal said we will die for. For an example we didnt fight for Syria, Iraq, whole peninsula etc. Cause they were not mainland.

[chinshen]

No they were (actually Mosul which Nationalist Turks and Turkmens fight still against commies) as part of Turkey as Istanbul. The borders of New Turkish state actually determined on the last meeting of Ottoman Parliement after WW1. (including Mosul. Batumi part of East Trachia and Antioch) and invasions of predominantly Turk soil refused. They also didnt approved the Treaty of Sevres which signed by collobarationist bastard government (gigachads) so Allies invaded Istanbul and arrested patriot deputies. The reason I am telling this all is Mosul is Turkish mainland which Mustafa Kemal said we will die for. For an example we didnt fight for Syria, Iraq, whole peninsula etc. Cause they were not mainland.

Turkic population of Mosul back then was probably not even 10% of the total population of the province of Mosul. So just because Turkish state desired that the oil rich Mosul province was going to be part of the newly created state of Turkey does not mean that is going to be a legit claim.

[Graywolf]

Turkic population of Mosul back then was probably not even 10% of the total population of the province of Mosul. So just because Turkish state desired that the oil rich Mosul province was going to be part of the newly created state of Turkey does not mean that is going to be a legit claim.

So why didnt they claim other petroleum rich areas? Actually did you count the Turks in mosul in 1914?

[chinshen]

So why didnt they claim other petroleum rich areas? Actually did you count the Turks in mosul in 1914?

Because Mosul province shared borders with the newly formed Turkey so it was easier to claim, while other rich areas were quite far plus oil was not discovered yet in those places such Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and other rich places.
Also Mosul province was not occupied by the British in military operation, but the Ottoman army withdrew so they probably thought that might give them further cause to claim it, the oil was the icing on the cake.
No, I wasn't around in 1918 to count the population of Mosul, but I am sure the Ottomans and later maybe the British most likely did where you can refer to their census records for yourself.

[Graywolf]

There are reports made by americans like admiral bristol and hobart about demoghraphic status of Ottoman Empire to apply Wilson Principles, if it was like u said nobody could claim Mosul as Turkish after Laussane. Now keep your unproved bullshit to yourself. Your ass is not a reputable resource.

[chinshen]

There are reports made by americans like admiral bristol and hobart about demoghraphic status of Ottoman Empire to apply Wilson Principles, if it was like u said nobody could claim Mosul as Turkish after Laussane. Now keep your unproved bullshit to yourself. Your ass is not a reputable resource.

Neither is you ass as a reputable source, just because you said so.
So just because you don't like what I said, but then you are the one filling these forums with pure bullshit.

[Graywolf]

No, I wasn't around in 1918 to count the population of Mosul, but I am sure the Ottomans and later maybe the British most likely did where you can refer to their census records for yourself.

WTF? you assume something, guess something, pull something out your ass and yet telling me that i come up with something without proof. U bullshit this forum and make ridiculous claims.U said Mosul's &10 was Turkish. I asked you if you counted Turks in Mosul ? Or do you have a proof?:D:D:D except your shitty ass. And Turks didnt claim somewhere Brits claimed Turks soil for being petrol rich. If it wasnt they could easily take it according to Wilson principles. Why eould they give us %10 of income? U little liar go tell this tales someone other.

[Hamilcar]

I think you are the one who either does not understand or doesn't want to understand.
I will repeat it again, how do you explain MENA Christian population dropping from 100% to below 10% and many disappearing all together.

Let me see, don't tell me communal mass suicides and donating all their wealth and possessions to their conquerors.

I already answered to this in my first answer to you, can't you read ?

[chinshen]

WTF? you assume something, guess something, pull something out your ass and yet telling me that i come up with something without proof. U bullshit this forum and make ridiculous claims.U said Mosul's &10 was Turkish. I asked you if you counted Turks in Mosul ? Or do you have a proof?:D:D:D except your shitty ass. And Turks didnt claim somewhere Brits claimed Turks soil for being petrol rich. If it wasnt they could easily take it according to Wilson principles. Why eould they give us %10 of income? U little liar go tell this tales someone other.

Listen you shit face, your personal attacks will not help your prove your stupid argument so please shut up. I didn't say Mosul was 10% Turkish, what I said was Mosul's Turkic population was not even 10% of the total province's population, so you can't claim it because you were a majority population there.
I also said just because you wanted to include Mosul into your newly established country does not make your claim legit.

[chinshen]

I already answered to this in my first answer to you, can't you read ?

No you didn't answer it. You need to be honest to yourself first then to others and give a clear & honest answer.

[Graywolf]

Listen you shit face, your personal attacks will not help your prove your stupid argument so please shut up. I didn't say Mosul was 10% Turkish, what I said was Mosul's Turkic population was not even 10% of the total province's population, so you can't claim it because you were a majority population there.
I also said just because you wanted to include Mosul into your newly established country does not make your claim legit.

Where do you know mothersucker i am asking you for the goddamnth time?

[Hamilcar]

No you didn't answer it. You need to be honest to yourself first then to others and give a clear & honest answer.

I based what I say on some books I've read, you're simply dishonest and likes playing the victim. I can for example explain to you why christianity disappeared in my region with quotes from books but you will of course deny them, keep playing the victim. Yeah arabs are evil people.

[chinshen]

Where do you know mothersucker i am asking you for the goddamnth time?

I only have two words for you since that is all what your small brain can comprehend "Fuck Off".
You are not the the type of person to hold a civilized discussion with. So piss off and go live in your own fantasy world.

[chinshen]

Where do you know mothersucker i am asking you for the goddamnth time?

I only have two words for you since that is all what your small brain can comprehend "Fuck Off".
You are not the the type of person to hold a civilized discussion with. So piss off and go live in your own fantasy world.

[Graywolf]

seninananıgöttensikeyimorospuevladı. OK Dumbass after dozens of times u dont have proof excep your shaggy ass. And I am guilty for talking non-proof. OK retard.

[chinshen]

I based what I say on some books I've read, you're simply dishonest and likes playing the victim. I can for example explain to you why christianity disappeared in my region with quotes from books but you will of course deny them, keep playing the victim. Yeah arabs are evil people.

I don't know what books you read, but you didn't give a straight forward and honest answer.
No, I don't play the victim, I don't need to play a victim, I am just questioning your dishonest claims.
since when showing the truth is been playing victim?
As a matter of fact you are the one that always plays a victim. In your posts you are very proud of your ancestors past glorious bloody conquest while at present living at the mercy of the same people that you belittle then claim racism when they reject you.

[Hamilcar]

I don't know what books you read, but you didn't give a straight forward and honest answer.
No, I don't play the victim, I don't need to play a victim, I am just questioning your dishonest claims.
since when showing the truth is been playing victim?
As a matter of fact you are the one that always plays a victim. In your posts you are very proud of your ancestors past glorious bloody conquest while at present living at the mercy of the same people that you belittle then claim racism when they reject you.

but wtf ??? what was wrong in what I said ? Ok let me read your "objective" explanation then. It seems you're too emotional when it comes to this topic, you can't speak about it objectively you absolutely wants arab/muslims to genocide christians. Sorry Sir but such thing never happened.

As for your last sentence, you simply don't know me well that's why you take some of my statements out of their context and don't know when I'm serious or not.

[Corporate_Demolisher]

From a mutual perspective definitely, aside from Islam Turks have nothing to do with Arabs. In fact many Arab imams considered the Ottomans as "infidel emperors" and dismissed their doctrines inferior.

[StonyArabia]

Most Arabs are neutral or positive toward Turks. There are those who are not positive toward Turks they tend to be either ultra nationalistic or pan-islamists.

However only certain Arabs rebelled against Ottoman rule. These were the Hashemites and the House of Al-Sauds and tribal allies. Some Arabian tribes had refused to rebel against the Ottoman rule and refused to ally with the British or other European powers. Noteable example was the Al-Rashids of Jebal Shammar who were then expelled into Syria and Iraq following the Saud takeover which wad endorsed by Britain. The Hashimites who were expelled but were installed on Transjordan and Iraq.

The Shia Arabs in Bahrain for example fought against the Portuguese with the Ottomans.

It’s very complex relationship. Most Arabs have more dislike for Persians than for Turks.