[POLL] is Autosomal or Paternal more important to determine your ethnicity?

[Dr_Maul]

Examples for each answer:
1. you considered yourself German, but your DNA test comes out as 70% Slavic. So, now you consider yourself Slavic.
2. you are 75% Slavic, but your paternal grandfather is Germanic. So you consider yourself Germanic.
3. As far as you know you are fully Slavic, but your Y-DNA Turns out to be Germanic. So you consider yourself Germanic.

[Blondie]

What determines ethnicity?

1. Native language
2. Identity
3. Majority german, french, russian etc ancestry

[Kyp]

1. Autosomal
2. Identity
3. Paternal
4. Maternal

[Dr_Maul]

1. Native language
2. Identity
3. Majority german, french, russian etc ancestry

for strictly defining your Race, regardless of nationality/culture stuff, which option would you pick?

[Blondie]

for strictly defining your Race, regardless of nationality/culture stuff, which option would you pick?

Neither because identity is a complex thing. If a hungarian has majority german genetic, german y haplogroup, but he don't speak german, don't even care to being german or german culture, his identity is hungarian why should anyone consider him german? He is not.

[RatCat]

As a male i would go with option 2 in that situation. Because you carry your paternal grandpa's surname, in your id card where you are registered is the same with your father's side (atleast in Turkey), you carry that man's Y-DNA, and because I'm male therefore I'm a little bit patriarchal. But if i was a female i dont know.

[TheMaestro]

Paternal.

[Leto]

Autosomal majority ancestry. For me being 75% something basically qualifies as a full of member of that ethnicity (there are nuances though as is the case most of the time).

[Flashball]

Genealogy

If you are one quarter chinese and three quarter french, you are just 75% french 25 % chinese not fully french neither chinese, you are mixed, but not 50/50, but 75/25.

Self-identification has no interest

[Kaspias]

The most crucial one is traditional ethnic identification that reflects autosomal DNA, too. Some might prefer to identify with only paternal or maternal lines, it is understandable as well. But changing identification according to haplogroups is madness IMO.

[Ion Basescul]

Would have been more interesting if the poll were public.

[reboun]

Feeling closer to a certain ethnicity.

[itilvolga]

Cultural upbringing is the most important thing when it comes to identity, or at least in my opinion. The language that you started to speak firstly and natively, the values that you grew up with and the society you grew up in shape you the most. There are many options for mixed people and diasporas, though.

[17571imre]

1. Autosomal
2. Identity
3. Paternal
4. Maternal

+1

[Linebacker]

As far as DNA is concerned the paternal side always has the most contribution to the offspring regardless if its a boy or girl.

[Dušan]

Autosomal majority ancestry. For me being 75% something basically qualifies as a full of member of that ethnicity (there are nuances though as is the case most of the time).

I agree with this statement.

If at least 3 out of 4 grandparents to be the same ethnicity, then that that person could be considered as member of that ethnicity.

Autosomal more important than Y-dna.
One part of my people have proto-Slavic haplo-group, other part paleo-Balkan. We all share similar autosomal heritage, no need to make divisions.

[Figaro]

Well, my paternal grandfather was German-American with paternal roots from Meck-Pomm, and we're R1a. So I guess my "tribe" is East German?

[Leto]

I agree with this statement.

If at least 3 out of 4 grandparents to be the same ethnicity, then that that person could be considered as member of that ethnicity.

Autosomal more important than Y-dna.
One part of my people have proto-Slavic haplo-group, other part paleo-Balkan. We all share similar autosomal heritage, no need to make divisions.
Thanks for appreciating that opinion of mine. Even though I'm somewhat fascinated with R1a, I would not say non-R1a people are somehow inferior or something. Not to mention that 50% of the population are women.

[Dušan]

Thanks for appreciating my opinion of mine. Even though I'm somewhat fascinated with R1a, I would not say non-R1a people are somehow inferior or something. Not to mention that 50% of the population are women.


After testing, I found that I share Y paternal lineage with forum member Bosniensis and few more Bosnian Muslims. Yes, their ancestors were Islamized Serbs.

But who cares about them?
I consider closer a Serb with J2b-M205 haplogroup than these Muslims.

[Alenka]

As far as DNA is concerned the paternal side always has the most contribution to the offspring regardless if its a boy or girl.
Not true. Men inherit about 51% from their mother and 49% from their father.
While women inherit 50% of their DNA from each parent.

[Linebacker]

Not true. Men inherit about 51% from their mother and 49% from their father.
While women inherit 50% of their DNA from each parent.

This was believed until recently.



Recently a much simpler explanation was proposed: what if the simple mixing of mitochondrial lineages within the same cell is for some reason costly in itself?

This very simple assumption actually nicely explains the peculiar inheritance of mitochondria in theoretical models.

But there is more. Mice that were experimentally constructed so that individuals carried two mitochondrial lineages were less active, ate less, were more stressed and were cognitively impaired. It seems carrying mitochondria from both your parents is bad for you.

So why is the question of whether you are more like your mum or dad so hard to answer? Because your genetic make-up is only part of the equation. Which genes are expressed is the other part. And apparently your dad has the upper hand when it comes to which genes are expressed.

So yes, people do inherit equal DNA from both their parents but it is paternal DNA that controls the mix.

[Parça do Neymar]

Autosomal + Identity / Cultural upbringing, though exceptions can be made. I consider Trabzon (?) Turks to be Turks, but they lack the (~30%?) Central Asian input Turkish people have on average. Likewise, Pontic Greeks cluster around the same place (near South Kavkazians) and I consider them Greeks as well.

Y-DNA and mtDNA lineages are important to track the path of ancient migrations and identify the fouding populations or to make Rethelite-styled shitposts on forums like this one. Arguably >50% of Brazilians (https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-HsvYqtl2CZg/U3u4oP9-Y2I/AAAAAAAAcsI/C503sH5PkV4/s1600/deivid-santana-a-esq-18-e-vinicius-andrade-moradores-do-capao-redondo-na-zona-sul-de-sao-paulogostam-de-comprar-roupas-de-grifes-caras-para-usar-nos-rolezinhos-1391128365868_956x500.jpg) belong to R1b subclades, are we Celtic kangz and shit?

[Mejgusu]

Definitely cultural and historical elements are for me more important than anything else. This is also reflecting the autosomal Dna of my people, but nevertheless if someone is not like the average genetically but if we share the cultural and historical background that is not important anymore. Besides of that i am very proud to be someone from my father’s family, but that has nothing to do whether i feel Turkish or not. Imo haplogroups are very interesting for researching or scientific works, but nothing more and can’t change the ethnic identity of someone.

[RatCat]

Not true. Men inherit about 51% from their mother and 49% from their father.
While women inherit 50% of their DNA from each parent.

Wrong. Child inherit 50/50 DNA from their parents and father's genes are a little more "influential".

[Leto]

I didn't mention things like culture, religion, birthplace (as well as the birthplace of one's parents) because those things weren't in the question.

[Hamilcar]

autosomal because it takes most of your ancestors into account and also define your physical look


but in a non-genetic context, it's your father that will determine your ethnicity at least in Morocco and most of the muslim world if I'm not mistaken

[Jana]

Who cares honestly. Genetics doesn't matter, you are what you grew up to be, culture, identity and language you were brought up with.
If I found I was genetically Swedish or Greek I'd still be just a Croat and nothing else.

Nobody cares for genetics in real life. Identity is a cultural thing.

[Alenka]

This was believed until recently.

So yes, people do inherit equal DNA from both their parents but it is paternal DNA that controls the mix.
Huh? What you quoted doesn't negate what I said.
Which genes are expressed is one thing, and what % of DNA they amount to is another.


https://www.geneheritage.com/blog/percent-dna-from-parents.html

How much DNA did you inherit from your mother and father? If you guessed 50% from each parent... well, you’re only half right. While women do inherit 50% of their DNA from each parent, men inherit about 51% from their mother and only 49% from their father.

For all you men out there, is this proof you really are a mama’s boy? Why the discrepancy?

To answer this question, first a little 101 in genetics: all humans, both male and female, inherit 23 chromosome pairs from their parents, for a total of 46 chromosomes. Half of each pairing comes from an individual’s mother and half from the father. In 22 of these chromosome pairings (known as “autosomes”), each half of the pairing is roughly the same length and size.

A 23rd chromosome pairing consists of two “allosomes,” more commonly known as “sex chromosomes.” Sex chromosomes can either be an X or Y. Unlike the 22 autosomes, X and Y chromosomes are NOT the same size.

The sex chromosome pairing for a man is XY, meaning all you fellas out there inherited one X from your mother and one Y from your father. Women, on the other hand, have a sex chromosome pairing of XX, inheriting one X chromosome from each parent.

The Y chromosome found in males is about one-third the size of an X chromosome—and contains significantly less DNA. An X chromosome has HUNDREDS more genes than a Y chromosome. It’s this discrepancy in the size of X and Y chromosomes that accounts for why men inherit 51% of their DNA from their mothers and only 49% from their fathers.

[Graywolf]

Ancestry is paternal. It's been since the dark ages.(except jews) I think its roots can be found in evolution. Animals don't feed the other calves of their partners, they kill them or leave to die. For an example Ottomans married slave girls for centuries for political reasons but they all spoke Turkish and maintained Turkish traditions. Even today they speak Turkish altough they re most living in abroad.

[Hamilcar]

Who cares honestly. Genetics doesn't matter, you are what you grew up to be, culture, identity and language you were brought up with.
If I found I was genetically Swedish or Greek I'd still be just a Croat and nothing else.

Nobody cares for genetics in real life. Identity is a cultural thing.

that's false, genetics does matter to people (at least in the collective unconscious) and I'm well placed to know it

[Nurzat]

1. Administrative division you live in.
2. Language you speak on a daily basis (even if it is different from your initial native one).

ancestry is optional in deciding ethnicity. for example someone born and raised in Austria from a Slovene mother and a Cameroonian father is culturally just as Austrian as one with totally local/native ancestry. this person of immigrant parents would not blend in in Cameroon nor in Slovenia, because he or she won't speak the local language or if they speak it it will have a strange sound or at least it won't be just as advanced as a native's or anyway won't have the exact all peculiarities of that local culture, so that person is Austrian

[Rethel]

2. you are 75% Slavic, but your paternal grandfather is Germanic. So you consider yourself Germanic.

Obviously this, if is agreeable with basic paternal Y pre-tribe (i.e. Indoeuropean, Ugrofinian, Semitic, Indian, etc.).

[Rethel]

his identity is hungarian

And one day, he is elected to some office, and has some public speech, which should begin:

We Magyars live here since 1125 years when our forefathers conquered carpathian basin....

Yea...

Can't you see the problem?

[Rethel]

But if i was a female i dont know.

If you would be a female, even independent feminist, then you would do everything
and whatever is possible and even more, to fit, to be absorbed and to assimilate into
your potential husband family, identity, ethnicity, views and race.



The most crucial one is traditional ethnic identification that reflects autosomal DNA

This is an oxymoron.

[Leto]

1. Administrative division you live in.
2. Language you speak on a daily basis (even if it is different from your initial native one).

ancestry is optional in deciding ethnicity. for example someone born and raised in Austria from a Slovene mother and a Cameroonian father is culturally just as Austrian as one with totally local/native ancestry. this person of immigrant parents would not blend in in Cameroon nor in Slovenia, because he or she won't speak the local language or if they speak it it will have a strange sound or at least it won't be just as advanced as a native's or anyway won't have the exact all peculiarities of that local culture, so that person is Austrian
That person would have literally no Austrian blood and would likely be a woke leftist projecting their own identity issues onto society they live in. You know, in modern urban society traditional culture is all but irrelevant. So being born in one of those big cities in the 21st century doesn't mean much in and of itself.

[TheMaestro]

If I'm E halogroup should I identify now as Nigerian?

[Dušan]

Autosomal genetics correlates more or less with physical apperiance.

Would these people who think paternal line is the most important, consider offspring of father of their own ethnicity and mother from for example Uganda, as member of their own ethnicity?

[Nurzat]

That person would have literally no Austrian blood and would likely be a woke leftist projecting their own identity issues onto society they live in. You know, in modern urban society traditional culture is all but irrelevant. So being born in one of those big cities in the 21st century doesn't mean much in and of itself.

yes, but that person only speaks native German (Austrian variety) and is connected to the entire Austrian mass culture as it is now in 2021. either we accept that person is Austrian and it brings a discussion on relevance of ancestry in these times either we don't accept it is an Austrian and it brings the same discussion because when you count them it is a big % of people in the West who match this example (any immigrant children or grandchildren etc). the trend is towards this model, so I expect such people will outnumber those with traditional local/native ancestry. also, let's not forget Europe was ethnically and genetically displaced several times: Homo sapiens replaced Neanderthals, their WHG descendants were replaced by Neolithic farmers, Neolithic farmers were replaced in Central, Northern and Eastern Europe by Steppe peoples. just a more recent example: in today's Moldovan/Romanian territory Germanics replaced Dacians, Slavs replaced Germanics, Vlachs replaced Slavs, all in the course of 1000 years (around 300 to 1300 CE).

[Rethel]

Would have been more interesting if the poll were public.

Now he must ask Loki to change it...


Well, my paternal grandfather was German-American with paternal roots from Meck-Pomm, and we're R1a. So I guess my "tribe" is East German?

If your oldest known ancestor was Meklemburgian, that's it.
Meklemburgians are obviously mixed people, so here, a haplogroup, if has certain provenance,
can be helpfull to determine slavness or germanness, but in some cases can be always doubts.


Identity is a cultural thing.

New mood, or mr husband?

But we talk about inheritable identity, which is not cultural.

People seem to not be able to differentiate things, as in any topic btw,
when someone is talking about A, they think it is about M, T, Y and Z.


Ancestry is paternal. (...) Animals don't feed the other calves of their partners, they kill them or leave to die. For an example Ottomans married slave girls for centuries for political reasons but they all spoke Turkish and maintained Turkish traditions. Even today they speak Turkish altough they re most living in abroad.

Fully agree and VERY good example, which I used many times myslef, but
people ignore every argument as such, always pointing to "becasue I said so".

[Chaos One]

Time to consider myself Germanic. Hail Wotan.

[Rethel]

If I'm E halogroup should I identify now as Nigerian?

Nope, you are E-V13. Surely Hamite, maybe Kaftorite.


Time to consider myself Germanic.

Zero chances.


Autosomal genetics correlates more or less with physical apperiance.

It could only apply to females. Are you? :laugh:


Would these people who think paternal line is the most important, consider offspring of father of their own ethnicity and mother from for example Uganda, as member of their own ethnicity?

Yes, of course.

[Art23]

A mix of autosomal ancestry and self identification.

[Chaos One]

Zero chances.

Happily.

[Rethel]

A mix of autosomal ancestry and self identification.

Self: chinese with aboriginal influence.
Au: spanish+nigerian+arabic+jewish.
Mix = ????

[Leto]

yes, but that person only speaks native German (Austrian variety) and is connected to the entire Austrian mass culture as it is now in 2021. either we accept that person is Austrian and it brings a discussion on relevance of ancestry in these times either we don't accept it is an Austrian and it brings the same discussion because when you count them it is a big % of people in the West who match this example (any immigrant children or grandchildren etc). the trend is towards this model, so I expect such people will outnumber those with traditional local/native ancestry. also, let's not forget Europe was ethnically and genetically displaced several times: Homo sapiens replaced Neanderthals, their WHG descendants were replaced by Neolithic farmers, Neolithic farmers were replaced in Central, Northern and Eastern Europe by Steppe peoples. just a more recent example: in today's Moldovan/Romanian territory Germanics replaced Dacians, Slavs replaced Germanics, Vlachs replaced Slavs, all in the course of 1000 years (around 300 to 1300 CE).
Back then replacement was done through war, conquest and genocide and those processes did not happen just within 20-30 years as in this day and age when it's happening without a bloody war or armed resistence.

[Nurzat]

Back then replacement was done through war, conquest and genocide and those processes did not happen just within 20-30 years as in this day and age when it's happening without a bloody war or armed resistence.

isn't it the same in Russia? (isn't half of Moscow of non-Slavic origin?)

also, aren't Soviet nostalgic ones internationalist? (as opposed to nationalist)

[Leto]

isn't it the same in Russia? (isn't half of Moscow of non-Slavic origin?)

also, aren't Soviet nostalgic ones internationalist? (as opposed to nationalist)
I am not going to discuss this.

[Kaspias]

This is an oxymoron.


I don't like that patriarchy bla bla stuff comes from you. Do you want to identify as such? Cool, do it. But if you're going to spam your ideas here as an answer to everyone who doesn't think the same as you then just spread your haplogroup over generations until a Sub Saharan bears it, and we will all see together what the actual oxymoron is.

You might just write your opinion and then shut up though. This is an option as well.

[Leto]

Autosomal genetics correlates more or less with physical apperiance.

Would these people who think paternal line is the most important, consider offspring of father of their own ethnicity and mother from for example Uganda, as member of their own ethnicity?
A substantial percentage of African Americans are R1b and even I1 being like 80-85% SSA.

[Linebacker]

Huh? What you quoted doesn't negate what I said.
Which genes are expressed is one thing, and what % of DNA they amount to is another.

Its not meant to negate what you said because what you said is true.

It just supports what you quoted me on - that paternal DNA is what dictates how the offspring will come out in the end by controlling gene expression.

[Rethel]

I don't like that patriarchy bla bla stuff comes from you. Do you want to identify as such? Cool, do it. But if you're going to spam your ideas here as an answer to everyone who doesn't think the same as you then just spread your haplogroup over generations until a Sub Saharan bears it, and we will all see together what the actual oxymoron is.

You might just write your opinion and then shut up though. This is an option as well.

It explains a lot.


A substantial percentage of African Americans are R1b

Not specially... Some 15%. Is it substancial?

[Chaos One]

A substantial percentage of African Americans are R1b and even I1 being like 80-85% SSA.

lol, I'm a continental I2a and I'm not white. Doesn't need too much.

[TheMaestro]

Nope, you are E-V13. Surely Hamite, maybe Kaftorite.




https://i.imgur.com/Mtd6te9.gif

[Linebacker]

A substantial percentage of African Americans are R1b and even I1 being like 80-85% SSA.

Haplogroups can be inherited from admixture that is not dominant in your overall profile.

I am around 8% Iberian on 23andme for example and it was enough to give me a western european mtdna haplogroup.

A Germanic plantation owner decided to bed one of his slaves 200 years ago and 200 years later you have a man who is predominantly black carrying I1.

[Jana]

that's false, genetics does matter to people (at least in the collective unconscious) and I'm well placed to know it

No it doesn't, common people don't really discuss such things at all.

[Dušan]

A substantial percentage of African Americans are R1b and even I1 being like 80-85% SSA.

Good example how autosomal genetics is far more relevant than haplogroups.

[Leto]

lol, I'm a continental I2a and I'm not white. Doesn't need too much.
You said your mother should be close to 100% European and so should be your paternal grandfather (?). So it's not like you are totally Asian or African, quite far from it.

[Thracian]

Culture is nothing. Many nations already assimilated by others.

Genetic is more important. I believe both Y-DNA and AuDNA are equally important. Combination of them tells too much about my ancestors, that would be bigger gap if I did not know my Y-DNA.

[Benyzero]

23andme lied to me I should have a hunnic haplogroup. I should have little turkic mustaches on my mitochondria

[Leto]

Culture is nothing. Many nations already assimilated by others.

Genetic is more important. I believe both Y-DNA and AuDNA are equally important. Combination of them tells too much about my ancestors, that would be bigger gap if I did not know my Y-DNA.
Didn't you say a few days ago "I care about my values"?

[Hamilcar]

No it doesn't, common people don't really discuss such things at all.

not really about the field itself of course but how your genes impact your look

[Rethel]

not really about the field itself of course but how your genes impact your look

So, when you will have a son, the only son, with a woman of another race, you'll
say to him: sorry boy, your identity is wrong, you are not my son, look at mirror?
And then you will make a son of a neighbour your heir who has similar au... yes?

[Thracian]

Didn't you say a few days ago "I care about my values"?

That was a general expression. However, I was not talking about culture, but common values like being loyal to our country.

[Chaos One]

You said your mother should be close to 100% European and so should be your paternal grandfather (?). So it's not like you are totally Asian or African, quite far from it.

No, my paternal grandfather is in fact the only mixed one. All others are white (100%, maybe my paternal gm is 95%+ but probably 100% too). Which makes my I2a2 really interesting since it's probably from Vandal invasions in Iberia -> Morisco

[Leto]

That was a general expression. However, I was not talking about culture, but common values like being loyal to our country.
Well, "values" are an even less tangible thing than culture.

[Leto]

No, my paternal grandfather is in fact the only mixed one. All others are white (100%, maybe my paternal gm is 95%+ but probably 100% too). Which makes my I2a2 really interesting since it's probably from Vandal invasions in Iberia -> Morisco
You are heavily European then, particularly for South America that's a very high level of whiteness.

[Defcon2]

Of course the paternal haplogroup is the most important thing, I already feel like a black man.

[Hamilcar]

So, when you will have a son, the only son, with a woman of another race, you'll
say to him: sorry boy, your identity is wrong, you are not my son, look at mirror?
And then you will make a son of a neighbour your heir who has similar au... yes?

more like " no sir you're black and most of your ancestors came from congo therefore you're aren't european"

[Adamm]

Unironically:

Paternal haplogroup > autosomal > the rest

[Thracian]

Well, "values" are an even less tangible thing than culture.

Maybe, you are right. But to me, maybe I am wrong, culture is a dynamic thing and changes over time. Values are also similar to culture, but the difference it binds different people. Although, people from the same ethnicity may have cultural differences.

[Mejgusu]

Maybe, you are right. But to me, maybe I am wrong, culture is a dynamic thing and changes over time. Values are also similar to culture, but the difference it binds different people. Although, people from the same ethnicity may have cultural differences.

People from the same ethnicity can’t have different cultures but different values. Culture, history and language define an ethnicity/people.

[Leto]

Maybe, you are right. But to me, maybe I am wrong, culture is a dynamic thing and changes over time. Values are also similar to culture, but the difference it binds different people. Although, people from the same ethnicity may have cultural differences.
I don't know, man. My values and culture are guided by my faith which is (Orthodox) Christianity. Those are not "dynamic" values but eternal in our view. Let's not debate this 'cause it's not even relevant to the topic.

[Thracian]

People from the same ethnicity have not a different culture but different values. Culture, history and language define an ethnicity/people.

Why not? Anyway, Leto is right, let's stick to topic. We can discuss about it more via PM if you want.

[Thracian]

I don't know, man. My values and culture are guided by my faith which is (Orthodox) Christianity. Those are not "dynamic" values but eternal in our view. Let's not debate this 'cause it's not even relevant to the topic.

Actually that was my question. Anyway, you are right, we should stick to topic.

[FinalFlash]

Culture and values can be altered in as little as 1-2 generations quite drastically whereas DNA is much more static in comparison. I'd have to go with aDNA and haplogroups.

[Leto]

I know of a guy, he is the grandson of this Soviet entomologist
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Borchsenius
So basically he is like 1/8 Danish or even 1/16 but his Y-DNA is still I1a2a1. Maternally he is Tatar but again, his mtDNA is not usual being Middle Eastern (K1a12a). Racially he looks very white, perhaps whiter than many members of TA.

[Abriekman]

Why can't people identify as several ethnicities they have in DNA? It is stupid to choose one of ethnicities, when you are mixed

[Graywolf]

Why can't people identify as several ethnicities they have in DNA? It is stupid to choose one of ethnicities, when you are mixed

Nations are what states stand for without them world would be fucked up.

[Chaos One]

Why can't people identify as several ethnicities they have in DNA? It is stupid to choose one of ethnicities, when you are mixed

Why are you trying to bring some logic to this discussion?

[The Sun King]

Why are you trying to bring some logic to this discussion?

Time out! I don't need to be hearing about no dead cameramen, all right? Now I'm warning you guys. I am a verb away from vacating these premises. I'm gonna get me some coffee, donuts, Prozac, see If I can find some crack, Special KX, "not Malcolm and I'll be back when you guys start talking about something a little more Saved By The Bellish, all right?

[Richmondbread]

Why Paternal? What if your maternal side is better?

[Rethel]

Why Paternal?

Ask God, Noah, Abraham, 12 patriarchs, Moses, Aaron, David, Zerubbabel, Ezra and Jesus. They surely explain it better than any of us here.


What if your maternal side is better?

Nothing.

Btw, as a christian which you claim to be, you shouldn't ask such questions at all. Quite opposite.

[Rethel]

Why can't people identify as several ethnicities they have in DNA? It is stupid to choose one of ethnicities, when you are mixed

Because it is stupid to be noone and walk proclaiming to everyone to have a multiple personality disorder and schizophrenia.

[Art23]

Self: chinese with aboriginal influence.
Au: spanish+nigerian+arabic+jewish.
Mix = ????

Usually, self-identification is based at least on a part of autosomal ancestry. The situation you are mentioning is an exception.

I am more speaking about more typical cases, for example,

I know that I have Ukrainian, but also Moldovan, Belarusian, Polish autosomal ancestry. Since I self-identify as Ukrainian, I am Ukrainian and everything else is cancelled.

Let's take another example, more interesting:Michael Wendler
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wendler
He denies his Polish ancestry and has changed his surname to German. Technically, by autosomes and Y DNA as well, he is Polish-German, but according to his beliefs, he doesn't want to have anything in common with Poland. This counts and cancels his Polish ancestry, he is a German.

[Art23]

Why can't people identify as several ethnicities they have in DNA? It is stupid to choose one of ethnicities, when you are mixed

I would say, it is technically possible to identify with more than 1 ethnicity, but in reality, most people live their lives identifying with one ethnicity. It is not enough to make a cheap autosomal test and say "oh, I love pizza, so I am Italian". No, you need also to know language, culture, traditions. Then, if you really live both ethnicities in your everyday life, then yes, you can identify with it. But the real number of such people is very low.

[Rethel]

Let's take another example, more interesting:Michael Wendler
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Wendler
He denies his Polish ancestry and has changed his surname to German. Technically, by autosomes and Y DNA as well, he is Polish-German, but according to his beliefs, he doesn't want to have anything in common with Poland. This counts and cancels his Polish ancestry, he is a German.

He's just an idiot.
The very fact, that he changed his surname proves, that he knows and agree
that 1. patrilineage matters only, and 2. that he is a Pole and always will be.
Otherways, he wouldn't do this.

[Art23]

He's just an idiot.
The very fact, that he changed his surname proves, that he knows and agree
that 1. patrilineage matters only, and 2. that he is a Pole and always will be.
Otherways, he wouldn't do this.

I agree that he is an idiot because of spewing conspiracy theories.

However, he is a German for me. His father was Polish, but mother is probably German, I don't know. In any case, he is born in Germany, speaks German and identifies as German. He doesn't want to be Polish, that's fine for me and enough to cancel his Polish ancestry.

[Rethel]

However, he is a German for me. His father was Polish, but mother is probably German, I don't know. In any case, he is born in Germany, speaks German and identifies as German. He doesn't want to be Polish, that's fine for me and enough to cancel his Polish ancestry.

So you accept a lie. It is not fine. It always will be a lie, the same as his surname of false.
Even after 30 generations, someone will make a genealogical research and will find out that
was lied and that one forefather was a lair and fraud. And no matter how many times you'll
not repeat that false is truth, the truth remain, and will and can be uncover at any moment.

[Art23]

So you accept a lie. It is not fine. It always will be a lie, the same as his surname of false.
Even after 30 generations, someone will make a genealogical research and will find out that
was lied and that one forefather was a lair and fraud. And no matter how many times you'll
not repeat that false is truth, the truth remain, and will and can be uncover at any moment.

You see, I assume that his mother is German. Then he can self-identify as German and it's not a lie in my opinion. I think self-identification matters exactly in such cases where there is a mixed autosomal ancestry.

[Rethel]

You see, I assume that his mother is German. Then he can self-identify as German and it's not a lie in my opinion. I think self-identification matters exactly in such cases where there is a mixed autosomal ancestry.

Doesn't matter the mother.

First of all, regardless of his identity, he has false surname. Period.
Secondly, why he has false surname? Becasue he changed it.
Why he changed it? Becasue it was talking about his polishness, but he wants to pretend to be a German.
So, he himself knows that he is a Pole, and he himself knows, that identity is paternal only.
Otherwise, he wouldn't have to falsify his name and identity. Such simple.
He proved it to you directly in your face, and you still refuse to see it.

[princeton90]

Autosomal.

[princeton90]

Feeling closer to a certain ethnicity.

I really began to think you have no idea what ethnicity means.

[Defcon2]

I'm surprised that "where I was born" hasn't been said yet to determine ethnicity.

[Scandal]

If your father defines your ethnicity, everyone on earth should identify as African (that's where humanity started)

[Rethel]

I'm surprised that "where I was born" hasn't been said yet to determine ethnicity.

:confused:

[Rethel]

If your father defines your ethnicity, everyone on earth should identify as African (that's where humanity started)

1. People are not from Africa, it is a lie.
2. Using a geographical description when we talk about human groups inheritable description witness of total not understanding what is talking about.
3. Are many different degrees of identity, so flatting everything to one also witness, that you have completly no idea what you are talking about.

[Rethel]

but mother is probably German,

Btw, yet once about it.

If his mother is german (citizen), and father is polish (citizen), then if there would be a normal german law, then his mother would be kicked out from german community. We have even a life example of such here on the forum. Kazimiera's grandmother was stripped from german citizenship, because she married a polish citizen. Btw, the same was in Poland and in any other normal european country. They didn't test, neither ask, how much autosomal do you have from our country or to which do you feel closer. No, it never happend in history. Women had always the identity of their husbands, so logically, children had only the identity of their fathers. Such simple. No multiple personality disorder, no schizopheniacs. Only a total ignorant, who in addition doesn't want to learn anything can resufe to acknowledge and implement it.

[Defcon2]

:confused:

People mostly identify with where they are born.

[Ion Basescul]

Would have been more interesting if the poll were public.

I chose paternal btw, because Indo-European society is inherently derived from a patriarchal culture, where Indo-European men predominantly took Farmer/Anatolian and Hunter-gatherer women. Culturally, Europeans are simply considered Indo-European nowadays, and not something mixed, even though genetically that obviously happened and those influences are just as important. This principle can be seen first-hand here. In Moldova if someone has a Moldovan/Romanian surname, they are automatically considered as such, even if the mother is of a different ethnicity. The opposite is harder to justify because the surname will stick out like a sore thumb.

[Robocop]

Examples for each answer:
1. you considered yourself German, but your DNA test comes out as 70% Slavic. So, now you consider yourself Slavic.
2. you are 75% Slavic, but your paternal grandfather is Germanic. So you consider yourself Germanic.
3. As far as you know you are fully Slavic, but your Y-DNA Turns out to be Germanic. So you consider yourself Germanic.

Well both are important, it depends what you're looking for.

For example, we in Archaeology (yep, Im Archaeologist) need Y-DNA genetics for our study of human migrations, it's one of the great tools for determining migrations durin ages.

So ofcourse to science like Archaeology Y-DNA is 100% more important than Autosomal DNA, in fact... we dont care for Autosomal DNA in Archaeology, why should we.

But then again, if you AS A PERSON want to determine YOUR ENTIRE GENETICS then ofcourse you would wanna know Autosomal DNA of yourself but ALSO Y-DNA of yourself.

Because Y-DNA is truly a window into your LINE of your paternal ancestry.

I did Y-DNA test 14 years ago, I got I2a1b (back then i twas called I2a2), I never did Autosomal DNA.

P.S. To answer on your question what if you're Autosomal DNA says you are Slavic but your Y-DNA says you're germanic (or vice versa), well that means that YOUR LINE (paternal) comes from Germanic tribe, that's a fact.

It depends on you as a person how will you use it for yourself and your identity of yourself ofcourse.

So conclusion:

For Archaeology: Y-DNA is truly very very very important for our research and we dont practically care for Autosomal DNA in Archaeology.

For you as a person: Both Y-DNA and Autosomal DNA is important ofcourse, IF IT'S IMPORTANT TO YOU.

I personally always wanted to know my Y-DNA, because I wanted to know my paternal line, deep into the history.

[Rethel]

People mostly identify with where they are born.

But we are not talking about state or geographical identity ius soli type, but
about the inheritable one, which is independent of where someone was born.

[Leto]

Well both are important, it depends what you're looking for.

For example, we in Archaeology (yep, Im Archaeologist) need Y-DNA genetics for our study of human migrations, it's one of the great tools for determining migrations durin ages.

So ofcourse to science like Archaeology Y-DNA is 100% more important than Autosomal DNA, in fact... we dont care for Autosomal DNA in Archaeology, why should we.

But then again, if you AS A PERSON want to determine YOUR ENTIRE GENETICS then ofcourse you would wanna know Autosomal DNA of yourself but ALSO Y-DNA of yourself.

Because Y-DNA is truly a window into your LINE of your paternal ancestry.

I did Y-DNA test 14 years ago, I got I2a1b (back then i twas called I2a2), I never did Autosomal DNA.

P.S. To answer on your question what if you're Autosomal DNA says you are Slavic but your Y-DNA says you're germanic (or vice versa), well that means that YOUR LINE (paternal) comes from Germanic tribe, that's a fact.

It depends on you as a person how will you use it for yourself and your identity of yourself ofcourse.

So conclusion:

For Archaeology: Y-DNA is truly very very very important for our research and we dont practically care for Autosomal DNA in Archaeology.

For you as a person: Both Y-DNA and Autosomal DNA is important ofcourse, IF IT'S IMPORTANT TO YOU.

I personally always wanted to know my Y-DNA, because I wanted to know my paternal line, deep into the history.
So even after years of Apricity pressure you don't plan on taking a proper DNA test to see how much this and that you are?

[Robocop]

So even after years of Apricity pressure you don't plan on taking a proper DNA test to see how much this and that you are?

Maybe I will, but I have so much other things to do right now that knowing my Autosomal DNA is not priority on my list lol.

In fact, Im not interested in same stuff as I was few years ago, while Im gettin older I find this less and less important to be honest with you.

It would be fun to see my Autosomal DNA structure, truly fun, but other than that...It's nothin important to me.

And this about Apricity pressure you mean Autosomal DNA right? I dont feel any pressure as you can see.

Back in 2006 I wanted to know my Y-DNA (and it was very expensive back then, my friend thought I went crazy because I wanted to know that stuff), and I did that test and I know.

P.S. I think much younger people than me are into their Autosomal DNA, I think with years you dont care for such stuff, except ofcourse... if you're obsessed with yourself.

[Rethel]

For Archaeology: Y-DNA is truly very very very important for our research and we dont practically care for Autosomal DNA in Archaeology.

And this is another proof, why paternal matters. Archeology is a record of life and practic. And life and practic was always paternal.

It astonishes me, how people here are refusing to acknowledge any evidence for patry-anything, but are sticking and promoting ideas based on their own "becasue I said so". Probably it has to be assumed, that they aren't only ignorants, but also liars and mythomans, becasue it is impossible for normal people to ignore so huge amount of evidences, including archeology, religions, historiography, history, genealogy, literature, customs, traditions, laws, codexes aso, aso, aso... it is just impossible to ignore everything and stick to own despiteful delusions.

[Defcon2]

But we are not talking about state or geographical identity ius soli type, but about iheritabe ne, which is independent of where someone was born.

Now i'm lost :picard1:

Ethnicity is language + geography, which are artificial cultural shapers.

If you ask me about my ethnicity (after laughing) I would say that my ethnicity is Spanish. I could not answer otherwise.

[Rethel]

Now i'm lost :picard1:

I see. My condolences.


Ethnicity is language + geography, which are artificial cultural shapers.

Whatever you say. Look at the poll and make wise conclusion.