New early bronze age serbian samples [G25]

[andre]

Early bronze age serbian samples from Mokrin necropolis (Vojvodina)



SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK9B,0.119514,0.141159,0.049403,0. 008721,0.036007,0.004741,-0.004465,0.001154,0.015339,0.018224,-0.00341,-0.001798,-0.0055,0.007019,-0.002714,-0.006232,-0.009779,0.006714,0.002137,0.00075,-0.004243,0.002844,-0.00912,-0.005422,-0.003832
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK10B,0.121791,0.149283,0.035449,0 .007429,0.038469,0.005857,-0.007285,0.004384,0.019839,0.017859,-0.002761,0.005845,-0.01219,-0.006055,0.00095,-0.003713,0.004824,-0.000507,0.009176,-0.00075,-0.000749,0.00371,-0.002958,0.004579,-0.000958
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK12,0.129758,0.145221,0.05242,0.0 1292,0.052933,-0.008367,-0.00047,-0.002538,0.012476,0.023508,0.002598,0.009741,-0.005946,-0.003716,-0.017101,-0.001193,0.014081,-0.001647,0.002388,-0.003752,0.000873,0.000742,-0.004067,-0.017352,-0.007305
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK13,0.121791,0.153345,0.039975,0. 000646,0.040623,-0.011435,0.000235,0.001846,0.01493,0.032074,0.0037 35,0.009292,-0.011001,-0.005918,-0.010722,0.0118,0.022165,0.004307,0.007668,0.00387 7,-0.004243,0.002968,-0.001725,-0.005422,0.000958
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK14,0.125205,0.144205,0.049403,0. 017442,0.03693,0.001116,-0.00047,-0.001615,0.014521,0.013485,0.008931,0.004946,-0.011298,-0.001514,-0.001357,0.001326,0.004694,0.006461,0.010307,0.002 376,-0.004243,0.006059,-0.007272,0.003735,-0.00479
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK15,0.121791,0.152329,0.046009,0. 012597,0.047393,-0.000837,0.011751,0.002769,0.016362,0.023508,-0.000974,0.00015,-0.007582,0.000688,-0.004343,-0.009944,-0.014342,-0.006461,0.001006,-0.000875,0.000374,-0.000124,-0.007765,-0.013737,-0.003113
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK16A,0.126344,0.153345,0.053551,0 .027455,0.052933,0.001116,0.00799,0.005077,0.00899 9,0.019681,-0.004384,0.006744,-0.005203,0.007569,-0.005293,-0.013259,-0.012126,0.00038,0.006034,-0.000125,-0.001872,0.001855,-0.007518,-0.011327,0.003473
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK17A,0.114961,0.149283,0.020742,-0.007752,0.035083,-0.002231,0.00658,-0.000231,0.012885,0.025513,0.000325,0.005995,-0.021704,-0.005367,-0.016422,-0.012994,0.005476,0.006588,0.006034,-0.001,0.007362,0.000989,0.001479,-0.002892,-0.003353
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK19A,0.126344,0.139128,0.067127,0 .036176,0.055395,0.009482,0.002115,0.006923,0.0169 75,0.015126,-0.000325,-0.001948,0.000743,0.010597,-0.010722,0.02254,0.020861,0.001014,-0.00352,0.004377,0.0141,-0.004575,-0.003821,-0.025787,0.001676
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK20,0.125205,0.153345,0.035449,0. 011305,0.039084,0.004741,0.00329,-0.004846,0.013908,0.020775,0.006008,0.000899,-0.013528,-0.009496,-0.013029,0.007027,0.022296,-0.004941,-0.004274,0.002501,0.001996,0.004575,-0.00456,0.002651,0.00467
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK21A,0.133173,0.141159,0.076555,0 .048127,0.051702,0.005857,0.002115,0.004615,0.0163 62,0.006196,-0.001786,-0.005995,0.005649,0.016102,-0.005429,-0.005967,0.000522,0.005828,0.003142,-0.002376,0.008235,0.007419,-0.004067,-0.023859,-0.002515
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK22,0.127482,0.14319,0.075047,0.0 42959,0.06832,0.012271,-0.00329,0.004384,0.023725,0.014214,-0.003248,0.001649,0.008028,0.011285,-0.017236,0.001458,0.01369,-0.00038,-0.00264,-0.001626,0.012977,0.004946,-0.008504,-0.030125,-0.002275
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK23,0.127482,0.13405,0.084852,0.0 41344,0.060011,0.023985,0.000705,0.007384,0.022907 ,0.008383,-0.00341,-0.012589,0.007136,0.013074,-0.006922,-0.012066,-0.009909,-0.004181,-0.003017,0.001751,0.006364,0.004204,-0.008011,-0.028438,-0.000958
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK24A,0.126344,0.146236,0.048649,0 .018411,0.048932,0.007251,0.002115,0.005769,0.0198 39,0.017495,0.002761,0.006145,-0.013379,0,0.002986,-0.012066,-0.0103,0.007348,0.007165,-0.001626,0.00025,0.004946,0.000739,-0.003856,-0.001676
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK25A,0.125205,0.147252,0.054682,0 .010982,0.052933,0.001673,-0.00235,0.005769,0.011453,0.024237,-0.001624,0.003447,-0.01219,-0.000963,-0.003122,-0.002519,-0.001565,0.002154,0.005782,0.00025,-0.003619,0.002968,-0.007518,-0.002892,-0.010059
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK26A,0.126344,0.144205,0.037712,0 .001292,0.044624,0.001394,0.007285,0.006231,0.0053 18,0.019499,0.003248,0,-0.00996,-0.007844,-0.010179,0.013657,0.021905,0.009755,0.003017,-0.003877,-0.00262,0.00779,-0.000246,-0.001687,0.000239
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK27,0.118376,0.151314,0.047517,0. 004845,0.040007,-0.003626,0.005405,0.003923,0.009613,0.026606,0.006 171,0.005395,-0.01115,-0.00578,-0.015472,-0.00716,0.017471,0.003041,0.009302,-0.007879,-0.00262,0.004946,-0.006532,-0.003856,-0.005269
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK28A,0.132035,0.141159,0.066373,0 .047481,0.056626,0.009203,0.00188,0.013384,0.01002 2,0.010023,-0.002436,-0.002847,0.005352,0.015001,-0.007465,-0.001458,0.000522,-0.005701,-0.001383,0.000625,-0.001123,-0.002597,0.00493,-0.017352,-0.00958
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK29A,0.126344,0.144205,0.046009,0 .007752,0.040315,0.003904,0.00282,0.008769,0.00838 5,0.027335,-0.002761,0.010191,-0.014717,-0.003853,-0.001493,-0.004641,-0.008084,-0.000253,0.002514,-0.004627,-0.00574,0.01014,0.000246,-0.002289,-0.007903
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK30,0.132035,0.140143,0.065242,0. 040052,0.056626,0.011156,0.000235,0.01823,0.016362 ,0.019499,-0.004872,0.002548,0.002081,0.001514,-0.014386,0.012861,0.008084,0.00266,0.001006,0.0088 79,0.004243,0.00643,-0.010476,-0.024823,-0.002874
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK31,0.124067,0.147252,0.033564,-0.010982,0.041854,-0.013108,-0.000235,0.007846,0.018816,0.03262,0.008607,0.0113 9,-0.013082,-0.003853,-0.013708,-0.007558,-0.002608,0.004434,0.006662,-0.008879,-0.00574,0.017559,-0.006162,0.003374,-0.001916
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK32,0.129758,0.14319,0.048271,0.0 11305,0.03416,-0.003347,0.00329,0.001154,0.012476,0.019864,0.0051 96,-0.001948,-0.010258,-0.009083,-0.000679,-0.008751,-0.008996,0.004814,0.006913,0.004377,-0.001747,0.008779,-0.010106,0.00253,-0.00455
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK33,0.127482,0.155376,0.053174,0. 011628,0.047701,0.00251,-0.00094,0.003461,0.010226,0.024602,0.006008,-0.004496,-0.003122,0.005092,-0.007193,-0.018828,-0.008214,0.005701,0.006411,0.005503,-0.005241,0.000247,-0.00986,-0.015424,-0.004311


Source: Anthrogenica, user Ajeje Brazorf

[Dušan]

Do you have K13 for these samples?

[andre]

Do you have K13 for these samples?

Nope.

[vbnetkhio]

Early bronze age serbian samples from Mokrin necropolis (Vojvodina)



SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK9B,0.119514,0.141159,0.049403,0. 008721,0.036007,0.004741,-0.004465,0.001154,0.015339,0.018224,-0.00341,-0.001798,-0.0055,0.007019,-0.002714,-0.006232,-0.009779,0.006714,0.002137,0.00075,-0.004243,0.002844,-0.00912,-0.005422,-0.003832
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK10B,0.121791,0.149283,0.035449,0 .007429,0.038469,0.005857,-0.007285,0.004384,0.019839,0.017859,-0.002761,0.005845,-0.01219,-0.006055,0.00095,-0.003713,0.004824,-0.000507,0.009176,-0.00075,-0.000749,0.00371,-0.002958,0.004579,-0.000958
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK12,0.129758,0.145221,0.05242,0.0 1292,0.052933,-0.008367,-0.00047,-0.002538,0.012476,0.023508,0.002598,0.009741,-0.005946,-0.003716,-0.017101,-0.001193,0.014081,-0.001647,0.002388,-0.003752,0.000873,0.000742,-0.004067,-0.017352,-0.007305
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK13,0.121791,0.153345,0.039975,0. 000646,0.040623,-0.011435,0.000235,0.001846,0.01493,0.032074,0.0037 35,0.009292,-0.011001,-0.005918,-0.010722,0.0118,0.022165,0.004307,0.007668,0.00387 7,-0.004243,0.002968,-0.001725,-0.005422,0.000958
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK14,0.125205,0.144205,0.049403,0. 017442,0.03693,0.001116,-0.00047,-0.001615,0.014521,0.013485,0.008931,0.004946,-0.011298,-0.001514,-0.001357,0.001326,0.004694,0.006461,0.010307,0.002 376,-0.004243,0.006059,-0.007272,0.003735,-0.00479
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK15,0.121791,0.152329,0.046009,0. 012597,0.047393,-0.000837,0.011751,0.002769,0.016362,0.023508,-0.000974,0.00015,-0.007582,0.000688,-0.004343,-0.009944,-0.014342,-0.006461,0.001006,-0.000875,0.000374,-0.000124,-0.007765,-0.013737,-0.003113
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK16A,0.126344,0.153345,0.053551,0 .027455,0.052933,0.001116,0.00799,0.005077,0.00899 9,0.019681,-0.004384,0.006744,-0.005203,0.007569,-0.005293,-0.013259,-0.012126,0.00038,0.006034,-0.000125,-0.001872,0.001855,-0.007518,-0.011327,0.003473
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK17A,0.114961,0.149283,0.020742,-0.007752,0.035083,-0.002231,0.00658,-0.000231,0.012885,0.025513,0.000325,0.005995,-0.021704,-0.005367,-0.016422,-0.012994,0.005476,0.006588,0.006034,-0.001,0.007362,0.000989,0.001479,-0.002892,-0.003353
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK19A,0.126344,0.139128,0.067127,0 .036176,0.055395,0.009482,0.002115,0.006923,0.0169 75,0.015126,-0.000325,-0.001948,0.000743,0.010597,-0.010722,0.02254,0.020861,0.001014,-0.00352,0.004377,0.0141,-0.004575,-0.003821,-0.025787,0.001676
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK20,0.125205,0.153345,0.035449,0. 011305,0.039084,0.004741,0.00329,-0.004846,0.013908,0.020775,0.006008,0.000899,-0.013528,-0.009496,-0.013029,0.007027,0.022296,-0.004941,-0.004274,0.002501,0.001996,0.004575,-0.00456,0.002651,0.00467
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK21A,0.133173,0.141159,0.076555,0 .048127,0.051702,0.005857,0.002115,0.004615,0.0163 62,0.006196,-0.001786,-0.005995,0.005649,0.016102,-0.005429,-0.005967,0.000522,0.005828,0.003142,-0.002376,0.008235,0.007419,-0.004067,-0.023859,-0.002515
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK22,0.127482,0.14319,0.075047,0.0 42959,0.06832,0.012271,-0.00329,0.004384,0.023725,0.014214,-0.003248,0.001649,0.008028,0.011285,-0.017236,0.001458,0.01369,-0.00038,-0.00264,-0.001626,0.012977,0.004946,-0.008504,-0.030125,-0.002275
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK23,0.127482,0.13405,0.084852,0.0 41344,0.060011,0.023985,0.000705,0.007384,0.022907 ,0.008383,-0.00341,-0.012589,0.007136,0.013074,-0.006922,-0.012066,-0.009909,-0.004181,-0.003017,0.001751,0.006364,0.004204,-0.008011,-0.028438,-0.000958
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK24A,0.126344,0.146236,0.048649,0 .018411,0.048932,0.007251,0.002115,0.005769,0.0198 39,0.017495,0.002761,0.006145,-0.013379,0,0.002986,-0.012066,-0.0103,0.007348,0.007165,-0.001626,0.00025,0.004946,0.000739,-0.003856,-0.001676
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK25A,0.125205,0.147252,0.054682,0 .010982,0.052933,0.001673,-0.00235,0.005769,0.011453,0.024237,-0.001624,0.003447,-0.01219,-0.000963,-0.003122,-0.002519,-0.001565,0.002154,0.005782,0.00025,-0.003619,0.002968,-0.007518,-0.002892,-0.010059
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK26A,0.126344,0.144205,0.037712,0 .001292,0.044624,0.001394,0.007285,0.006231,0.0053 18,0.019499,0.003248,0,-0.00996,-0.007844,-0.010179,0.013657,0.021905,0.009755,0.003017,-0.003877,-0.00262,0.00779,-0.000246,-0.001687,0.000239
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK27,0.118376,0.151314,0.047517,0. 004845,0.040007,-0.003626,0.005405,0.003923,0.009613,0.026606,0.006 171,0.005395,-0.01115,-0.00578,-0.015472,-0.00716,0.017471,0.003041,0.009302,-0.007879,-0.00262,0.004946,-0.006532,-0.003856,-0.005269
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK28A,0.132035,0.141159,0.066373,0 .047481,0.056626,0.009203,0.00188,0.013384,0.01002 2,0.010023,-0.002436,-0.002847,0.005352,0.015001,-0.007465,-0.001458,0.000522,-0.005701,-0.001383,0.000625,-0.001123,-0.002597,0.00493,-0.017352,-0.00958
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK29A,0.126344,0.144205,0.046009,0 .007752,0.040315,0.003904,0.00282,0.008769,0.00838 5,0.027335,-0.002761,0.010191,-0.014717,-0.003853,-0.001493,-0.004641,-0.008084,-0.000253,0.002514,-0.004627,-0.00574,0.01014,0.000246,-0.002289,-0.007903
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK30,0.132035,0.140143,0.065242,0. 040052,0.056626,0.011156,0.000235,0.01823,0.016362 ,0.019499,-0.004872,0.002548,0.002081,0.001514,-0.014386,0.012861,0.008084,0.00266,0.001006,0.0088 79,0.004243,0.00643,-0.010476,-0.024823,-0.002874
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK31,0.124067,0.147252,0.033564,-0.010982,0.041854,-0.013108,-0.000235,0.007846,0.018816,0.03262,0.008607,0.0113 9,-0.013082,-0.003853,-0.013708,-0.007558,-0.002608,0.004434,0.006662,-0.008879,-0.00574,0.017559,-0.006162,0.003374,-0.001916
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK32,0.129758,0.14319,0.048271,0.0 11305,0.03416,-0.003347,0.00329,0.001154,0.012476,0.019864,0.0051 96,-0.001948,-0.010258,-0.009083,-0.000679,-0.008751,-0.008996,0.004814,0.006913,0.004377,-0.001747,0.008779,-0.010106,0.00253,-0.00455
SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK33,0.127482,0.155376,0.053174,0. 011628,0.047701,0.00251,-0.00094,0.003461,0.010226,0.024602,0.006008,-0.004496,-0.003122,0.005092,-0.007193,-0.018828,-0.008214,0.005701,0.006411,0.005503,-0.005241,0.000247,-0.00986,-0.015424,-0.004311


Source: Anthrogenica, user Ajeje Brazorf
interesting.

https://i.imgur.com/RlfGVe4.png

they are steppe + neolithic, but the WHG is clearly increased too.

[andre]

They are aprox. 50% EEF, 30% YAMNAYA,20% WHG. Like modern spanish and southern french.

[Lucas]

They are in last Reich dataset?

[Jana]

Based on this they should be similar to Illyrians (IA/BA age samples from Croatia and few Panonnian samples from Hungary)?

[Lucas]

Early bronze age serbian samples from Mokrin necropolis (Vojvodina)

1[/CODE]


Source: Anthrogenica, user Ajeje Brazorf

There are scaled? Seems mainly continental Celtic-like, but some look Slavic-like admixed ( I know it is Bronze Age but still).

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK33
0.04383642 Spanish_Barcelones
0.04427506 French_Auvergne
0.04519945 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK32
0.02780500 French_Auvergne
0.02930295 Swiss_German
0.02966354 French_Occitanie

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK31
0.03016588 Italian_Bergamo
0.03127560 Italian_Lombardy
0.03262793 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK30
0.05321759 Austrian
0.05539807 Slovenian
0.05586501 German

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK29A
0.02448772 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02450769 French_Auvergne
0.02679853 French_Provence

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK28A
0.03958505 German_East
0.04102156 Slovenian
0.04146324 Czech

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK27
0.03289864 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03348963 Italian_Northeast
0.03449671 Italian_Veneto

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK26A
0.03095074 Italian_Northeast
0.03205367 Macedonian:East1
0.03246767 Italian_Veneto

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK25A
0.02495149 French_Auvergne
0.02744129 French_Occitanie
0.02896858 Spanish_Barcelones

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK24A
0.02566204 French_Auvergne
0.02621223 French_Occitanie
0.02762347 Swiss_German

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK23
0.05796493 German_East
0.05856769 Ukrainian_B
0.06007786 Czech

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK22
0.06479977 Slovenian
0.06639147 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.06653669 German_East

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK21A
0.04459028 German_East
0.04684943 Slovenian
0.04822756 Czech

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK20
0.03429997 Italian_Northeast
0.03459403 Swiss_French
0.03526550 Italian_Aosta_Valley

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK19A
0.05619718 Austrian
0.05770596 Slovenian
0.05800253 Slovakian

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK17A
0.02875681 Italian_Bergamo
0.02980493 Italian_Piedmont
0.02989071 Italian_Liguria

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK16A
0.04021101 French_Occitanie
0.04109038 French_Alsace
0.04114813 French_Auvergne

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK15
0.03056794 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03560987 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03611665 French_Auvergne

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK14
0.02602080 Swiss_German
0.02603871 French_Auvergne
0.02816770 French_Alsace

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK13
0.03461822 Italian_Veneto
0.03527866 Spanish_Mallorca
0.03532779 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK12
0.04221948 French_Auvergne
0.04270077 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04297288 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK10B
0.02107159 French_Provence
0.02180906 Swiss_French
0.02270540 French_Auvergne

Distance to: SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK9B
0.03155398 Italian_Northeast
0.03219824 French_Auvergne
0.03320167 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige

[XenophobicPrussian]

Nice, very undersampled region in Europe in terms of ancients. Less East Med and of course less Slavic shift isn't too surprising. Higher steppe samples also isn't surprising given it's early BA, by the IA they probably averaged around MOK32, or similar to early Italics and early Alpine Celts.

[andre]

There are scaled? Seems mainly continental Celtic-like, but some look Slavic-like admixed ( I know it is Bronze Age but still).



I don't see nothing strage. We should take in account that Vojvodina it's in Pannonia, so it's not that strange.

[Vrazijadivizija]

Hmm i find two of those samples on Mta although not so strong..first one is
Visigoth + Illyrian (8.074)
Thuringii + Illyrian (8.976)
Visigoth + Gaul (9.872)
Gaul + Illyrian (10.08)
Frank + Illyrian (10.2)
Gaul (10.58)
Thuringii (12.04)
Frank (12.08)
Visigoth (12.29)
Illyrian (13.84)

Second
Scythian + Boii (6.612)
Belgae + Early Slav (9.08)
Boii + Early Slav (9.254)
Boii + Ostrogoth (9.372)
Ostrogoth + Early Slav (10.04)
Boii (11.84)
Scythian (12.3)
Ostrogoth (15.97)
Belgae (16.39) one rather celtic

[vbnetkhio]

Based on this they should be similar to Illyrians (IA/BA age samples from Croatia and few Panonnian samples from Hungary)?

very similar to Pannonians, just a bit less steppe shifted. The Croatian samples are different, they are less WHG than these 2, but the overlap could increase when we get more samples.
https://i.imgur.com/LGAbkaB.png
green- Mokrin
brown- Hungary BA/IA
Blue - Hungarian Bell Beakers (Steppe and Farmers caught in the procces of mixing)

[vbnetkhio]

we already knew that I2 eventually replaced G2 in the late neolithic in Europe.

but it seems that the WHG autosomal admixture was having a comeback too, just before Indo-Europeans arrived.

in Germany too:
https://www.nature.com/articles/s42003-020-01627-4

The results showed that the farming population of Niedertiefenbach carried a surprisingly large hunter-gatherer ancestry component (34–58%).

it's crazy to think about that.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Interesting, they prefer Corded Ware over both Bell Beaker and Yamnaya.

Model:


SRB_Starcevo_N,0.126344,0.180764,0.018479,-0.077197,0.055703,-0.03765,-0.00141,0.000692,0.036814,0.076357,0.001949,0.0092 92,-0.024975,0.000138,-0.034744,-0.005967,0.008475,0.000507,0.014078,-0.014757,-0.005116,0.003339,-0.008751,-0.006386,-0.000479
SRB_Iron_Gates_HG,0.1305661,0.1170479,0.1821736,0. 179266,0.1313397,0.0553463,0.0143661,0.0327084,0.0 650782,-0.010023,-0.0091618,-0.0172588,0.025608,-0.0001331,0.0333084,0.048361,0.0045466,0.0058194,-0.0069012,0.0482893,0.0749404,0.0111487,-0.0339606,-0.1222246,0.0112834
Corded_Ware_DEU,0.1298723,0.1110989,0.0568699,0.08 87606,0.0040622,0.0337179,0.001034,0.0025616,-0.0280402,-0.0395815,0.0003734,0.0023378,-0.0068234,-0.0095647,0.0240903,0.0072393,-0.0146682,0.0042188,-0.0020237,0.0046773,0.0029074,0.0013601,0.0060884, 0.0183278,8.38e-05
TUR_Arslantepe_EBA,0.1032945,0.1546142,-0.0594908,-0.089552,-0.0198495,-0.0290045,0.0017625,-0.010615,-0.0177422,0.012483,0.0054808,0.0017985,-0.005649,0.003888,-0.0106202,-0.0020882,0.0073667,0.0017735,0.0029852,0.0010945,-0.001435,0.004235,-0.0016332,-0.0043682,-0.000509
Yamnaya_RUS_Samara,0.1255849,0.089028,0.0426986,0. 1153479,-0.0287232,0.0450564,0.0036033,-0.0025642,-0.0559032,-0.0728943,0.0018222,3.32e-05,-0.0026924,-0.0233041,0.0366141,0.0157633,-0.0012316,-0.0017879,-0.0038408,0.0137704,-0.0031749,0.0007557,0.0110649,0.0186102,-0.004537
Bell_Beaker_NLD,0.1284778,0.1228792,0.0626964,0.07 32402,0.024543,0.0242984,0.0004994,0.003346,-0.0082066,-0.0132576,-0.0051356,0.0029222,-0.0081208,-0.014588,0.0251934,0.0100105,-0.0060466,-0.0022011,0.0012412,0.0072378,0.005849,0.0026894,0 .0002158,0.0061454,-0.000464



Target: SRB_Mokrin_EBA
Distance: 1.5236% / 0.01523612
49.8 SRB_Starcevo_N
39.2 Corded_Ware_DEU
11.0 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG

(this is the averaged coords of the Mokrin samples)

Only Yamnaya:


Target: SRB_Mokrin_EBA
Distance: 1.9074% / 0.01907425
56.8 SRB_Starcevo_N
29.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
14.0 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG


Only Bell Beaker:


Target: SRB_Mokrin_EBA
Distance: 1.8965% / 0.01896469
48.6 Bell_Beaker_NLD
40.4 SRB_Starcevo_N
8.0 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG
3.0 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA


Modern Serbs with original model:


Target: Serbian
Distance: 3.4003% / 0.03400267
49.4 Corded_Ware_DEU
35.0 SRB_Starcevo_N
10.6 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
5.0 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG


Serbs with only Yamnaya:


Target: Serbian
Distance: 3.6467% / 0.03646717
51.0 SRB_Starcevo_N
40.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
6.4 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG
2.2 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA


I only point this out because before Davidski proved all Europeans derive from Corded Ware, the old theory was North = Corded Ware, southern Europeans(and even all R1b Europeans) = Yamnaya, although it's still possible for Greek, Albanian and Armenian(especially Armenian) steppe ancestry to be derived directly from Yamnaya over Corded Ware.

[vbnetkhio]

Interesting, they prefer Corded Ware over both Bell Beaker and Yamnaya.

Model:





(this is the averaged coords of the Mokrin samples)

Only Yamnaya:



Only Bell Beaker:



Modern Serbs with original model:



Serbs with only Yamnaya:



I only point this out because before Davidski proved all Europeans derive from Corded Ware, the old theory was North = Corded Ware, southern Europeans(and even all R1b Europeans) = Yamnaya, although it's still possible for Greek, Albanian and Armenian(especially Armenian) steppe ancestry to be derived directly from Yamnaya over Corded Ware.

1.5 and 1.9 is pretty much identical. But they are r1b-z2103, so we know they are from Yamnaya

[Ajeje Brazorf]

https://i.ibb.co/Zm69zgM/PCA.png

[Flashball]

They are aprox. 50% EEF, 30% YAMNAYA,20% WHG. Like modern spanish and southern french.

Modern spanish are not 20% of WHG.

Only Basque more or less 20% of WHG.

Also, the majority of "Southern" (Western) French don't clust with Spaniard; a person from Tarn (SouthWestern France) is more close to a Central French that a Spaniard.

[andre]

Modern spanish are not 20% of WHG.

Only Basque more or less 20% of WHG.

Also, the majority of "Southern" (Western) French don't clust with Spaniard; a person from Tarn (SouthWestern France) is more close to a Central French that a Spaniard.

As WHG i mean HUN_Koros_N_HG.

[Aren]

With that high WHG they can't be ancestral to modern day Balkanites.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

https://i.ibb.co/Zm69zgM/PCA.png

Updated PCA

[Jana]

With that high WHG they can't be ancestral to modern day Balkanites.

Vojvodina isn't located in the Balkans.

[Hulu]

Distance to: Hulu_scaled
0.05132008 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK17A
0.05490829 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK13
0.05646387 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK31
0.05948290 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK26A
0.06029781 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK27
0.06694655 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK20
0.06831623 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK10B
0.07417323 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK12
0.07469880 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK14
0.07519185 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK29A
0.07567993 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK9B
0.07653704 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK32
0.08050508 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK25A
0.08157400 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK15
0.08314663 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK33
0.08727766 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK24A
0.09380492 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK16A
0.10935376 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK19A
0.11158993 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK30
0.11529526 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK28A
0.12042763 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK21A
0.12262271 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK22
0.13321614 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK23

Target: Hulu_scaled
Distance: 4.7906% / 0.04790587
100.0 SRB_Mokrin_EBA

Target: Hulu_scaled
Distance: 4.7906% / 0.04790587
52.8 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK17A
35.2 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK13
12.0 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK31

[gixajo]

Target: gixajo_scaled
Distance: 2.9270% / 0.02927048
31.8 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK15
23.0 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK10B
19.6 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK29A
18.2 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK13
4.4 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK25A
3.0 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK24A

Target: gixajo_dad_scaled
Distance: 3.2365% / 0.03236531
33.2 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK31
24.4 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK15
22.0 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK13
20.2 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK10B
0.2 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK29A

Target: gixajo_mom_scaled
Distance: 3.1850% / 0.03185020
34.4 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK24A
31.6 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK15
13.2 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK10B
12.4 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK29A
8.4 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK32

Distances.

Distance to: gixajo_scaled
0.03494073 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK29A
0.03531883 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK25A
0.03636103 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK10B
0.03772358 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK15
0.03882188 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK24A
0.04122699 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK9B
0.04144298 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK32
0.04426454 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK14
0.04594156 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK13
0.04855222 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK31
0.04877181 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK27
0.04907262 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK33
0.04907672 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK12
0.05032582 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK20
0.05042944 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK16A
0.05251824 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK26A
0.05325626 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK17A
0.07058048 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK30
0.07513537 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK19A
0.07545520 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK28A
0.08081603 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK21A
0.08270751 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK22
0.08784784 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK23

Distance to: gixajo_dad_scaled
0.04040181 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK10B
0.04072173 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK31
0.04114696 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK29A
0.04362831 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK13
0.04409791 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK25A
0.04585859 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK15
0.04699783 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK27
0.04720080 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK9B
0.04781132 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK17A
0.04835506 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK32
0.04974791 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK24A
0.05125779 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK14
0.05351557 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK20
0.05486849 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK33
0.05497726 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK26A
0.05518346 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK12
0.06046052 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK16A
0.08435349 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK30
0.08842405 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK19A
0.08903181 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK28A
0.09493123 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK21A
0.09559877 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK22
0.10172878 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK23

Distance to: gixajo_mom_scaled
0.03503281 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK24A
0.03731926 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK15
0.03771177 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK29A
0.03881331 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK25A
0.03940669 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK32
0.04112924 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK9B
0.04168521 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK10B
0.04593043 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK16A
0.04640819 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK33
0.04790301 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK14
0.05357327 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK27
0.05397509 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK31
0.05633469 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK12
0.05815070 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK20
0.05844213 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK13
0.06021347 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK17A
0.06164662 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK26A
0.07088283 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK30
0.07456350 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK28A
0.07670010 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK21A
0.07852785 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK19A
0.08103108 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK23
0.08156033 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK22

[Hulu]

I want to see some northern plotting Albanians do this but there is none currently. I bet they are really close. Fustan or Ice T or Illyrian Warrior.

[gixajo]

I´ve made this PCA for another thread (that´s why it has Iberian BA ), but it´s enough to see the samples are basically "modern Germanic type" .

https://i.imgur.com/XUZMvF8.png

[Hulu]

Some are closer to Albanians than Germans. There's a huge spectrum.

[Cleitus]

Vojvodina isn't located in the Balkans.

You know, it is called the Balkan Penisula for a reason. Penisula, a piece of land that juts out from a larger land mass and is mostly surrounded by water.
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cf/Balkan_peninsula_line.jpg/440px-Balkan_peninsula_line.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwDrHqNZ9lo

[Cleitus]

Some are closer to Albanians than Germans. There's a huge spectrum.
Urnfield sample from Hungary
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eilv28LXsAENyDh?format=jpg&name=large

[calxpal]

Distance to: Cpalscaled
0.04714898 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK14
0.05575484 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK20
0.05684193 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK26A
0.05701852 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK10B
0.05881916 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK32
0.05966058 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK25A
0.05979702 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK28A
0.05990189 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK24A
0.06121958 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK29A
0.06146540 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK9B
0.06146976 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK19A
0.06257338 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK30
0.06677715 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK12
0.06688895 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK16A
0.06720013 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK27
0.06879183 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK21A
0.06954969 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK13
0.07083731 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK15
0.07439857 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK33
0.07829358 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK22
0.08092683 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK23
0.08274363 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK17A
0.08552052 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK31

Target: Cpalscaled
Distance: 4.1714% / 0.04171449
42.6 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK14
27.8 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK28A
16.6 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK20
6.8 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK19A
6.2 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK26A

Lol

[vbnetkhio]

The south-shifted 6th century Hungarian samples are exactly in between Mokrin and Imperial Romans.

Target: HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman
Distance: 1.5793% / 0.01579260
53.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial
47.0 SRB_Mokrin_EBA

https://i.imgur.com/S1murha.png

these are the samples which I considered Roman:

HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman:SZ36,0.117238,0.148267,0.01169 1,-0.025517,0.028313,-0.010319,0.003525,0.006923,0.00225,0.02041,0.00308 5,-0.000599,-0.009663,-0.004679,-0.001357,0.005834,0.00326,-0.000887,0.000377,0.001501,-0.008111,0.004451,0.006779,0.001566,-0.000479
HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman:SZ40,0.108132,0.149283,0.00264 ,-0.037791,0.018157,-0.010598,0.00094,-0.014538,0.003477,0.026789,-0.002436,0.008243,-0.007582,-0.008945,-0.00285,0.005304,0.020731,-0.003927,-0.000377,0.000375,-0.011355,0.00507,0.002218,0.00482,-0.005149
HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman:SZ28,0.124067,0.148267,0.02979 3,-0.008075,0.032006,-0.006972,0.00047,-0.003461,0.015339,0.032074,-0.004547,0.007493,-0.014569,0.002064,-0.005293,0.000928,0.006389,0.00266,0.006662,-0.004627,0.004742,0.002226,-0.005176,-0.00494,-0.001557
HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman:SZ19,0.120652,0.167562,0.01282 2,-0.045866,0.035391,-0.022869,-0.00047,-0.000923,0.001023,0.045559,0.007145,0.01079,-0.013528,0.007844,-0.014115,-0.018297,-0.003129,0.003421,0.008547,-0.016258,-0.010232,0.003462,0.005793,0.007832,0.001317
HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman:SZ43,0.122929,0.145221,0.01697 ,-0.019057,0.030775,-0.01506,-0.004465,-0.004154,0.009613,0.020775,0.002436,0.005545,-0.011596,-0.007019,0.00095,-0.006364,0.011343,0.000507,0.005656,-0.00075,-0.006239,0.000989,0.004314,0.006145,-0.001078
HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman:SZ37,0.118376,0.139128,0.01470 8,-0.012597,0.01231,-0.006414,-0.004935,0.011769,0.004704,0.013121,-0.003735,0.004796,-0.013379,-0.001514,-0.008143,-0.00053,-0.00326,-0.005574,0.01257,-0.002626,-0.006738,0.006306,-0.000246,0.001807,-0.006706
HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman:SZ32,0.111547,0.157407,0.01508 5,-0.024871,0.026466,-0.015618,0.00141,-0.002308,0.005727,0.019135,0.002598,0.001798,-0.011298,-0.008808,-0.004072,0.002784,0.003651,0.001014,-0.000126,-0.002001,-0.006239,0.000495,0.00456,-0.01458,-0.001916
HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman_avg,0.117563,0.150733571428571 ,0.014815571428572,-0.024824857142857,0.026202571428572,-0.01255,-0.000503571428571,-0.000956,0.006019,0.025409,0.000649428571429,0.005 438,-0.011659285714286,-0.003008142857143,-0.004982857142857,-0.001477285714286,0.005569285714286,-0.000398,0.004758428571429,-0.003483714285714,-0.006310285714286,0.003285571428571,0.002606,0.000 378571428571,-0.002224

[GalenStark]

Target: Galen
Distance: 1.6964% / 0.01696426 | ADC: 0.25x RC
24.0 Cycladic_EBA
17.2 BGR_IA
17.2 UKR_Cimmerian_o
16.8 VK2020_RUS_Pskov_VA
10.2 SRB_Mokrin_EBA
7.8 DEU_MA_o
6.8 TUR_IA_low_res


Target: Galen
Distance: 2.0402% / 0.02040217 | ADC: 0.5x RC
30.8 SRB_Mokrin_EBA
23.4 UKR_Cimmerian_o
19.8 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
14.0 TUR_IA_low_res
12.0 DEU_MA_o


Target: Galen
Distance: 2.2206% / 0.02220582 | ADC: 1x RC
32.8 SRB_Mokrin_EBA
26.0 UKR_Cimmerian_o
25.2 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
16.0 BGR_IA

Target: Galen
Distance: 3.1423% / 0.03142271 | ADC: 2x RC
53.0 UKR_Cimmerian_o
47.0 HRV_MBA


Distance to: Galen
0.03819516 UKR_Cimmerian_o
0.03979503 HRV_MBA
0.04350113 ITA_Rome_Late_Antiquity
0.04463139 ITA_Rome_MA
0.04538327 ITA_Tivoli_Renaissance
0.04556745 ITA_Prenestini_tribe_IA_o
0.04576255 BGR_IA
0.04690879 Helladic_MBA:Log02
0.04727120 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK26A
0.04818515 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK13
0.05007539 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK17A
0.05032631 Scythian_MDA
0.05070442 VK2020_ITA_Foggia_MA
0.05182707 TUR_IA_low_res
0.05209172 Levant_LBN_MA_o4
0.05223886 IND_Roopkund_B
0.05234364 HRV_EBA
0.05280019 HRV_IA
0.05299196 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK27
0.05457912 BGR_EBA
0.05528538 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK20
0.05636563 ITA_Etruscan
0.05641132 SRB_Mokrin_EBA:MOK31
0.05701967 ITA_Proto-Villanovan
0.05736240 DEU_MA_o

[Ion Basescul]

The south-shifted 6th century Hungarian samples are exactly in between Mokrin and Imperial Romans.

Target: HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman
Distance: 1.5793% / 0.01579260
53.0 ITA_Rome_Imperial
47.0 SRB_Mokrin_EBA

https://i.imgur.com/S1murha.png

these are the samples which I considered Roman:

HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman:SZ36,0.117238,0.148267,0.01169 1,-0.025517,0.028313,-0.010319,0.003525,0.006923,0.00225,0.02041,0.00308 5,-0.000599,-0.009663,-0.004679,-0.001357,0.005834,0.00326,-0.000887,0.000377,0.001501,-0.008111,0.004451,0.006779,0.001566,-0.000479
HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman:SZ40,0.108132,0.149283,0.00264 ,-0.037791,0.018157,-0.010598,0.00094,-0.014538,0.003477,0.026789,-0.002436,0.008243,-0.007582,-0.008945,-0.00285,0.005304,0.020731,-0.003927,-0.000377,0.000375,-0.011355,0.00507,0.002218,0.00482,-0.005149
HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman:SZ28,0.124067,0.148267,0.02979 3,-0.008075,0.032006,-0.006972,0.00047,-0.003461,0.015339,0.032074,-0.004547,0.007493,-0.014569,0.002064,-0.005293,0.000928,0.006389,0.00266,0.006662,-0.004627,0.004742,0.002226,-0.005176,-0.00494,-0.001557
HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman:SZ19,0.120652,0.167562,0.01282 2,-0.045866,0.035391,-0.022869,-0.00047,-0.000923,0.001023,0.045559,0.007145,0.01079,-0.013528,0.007844,-0.014115,-0.018297,-0.003129,0.003421,0.008547,-0.016258,-0.010232,0.003462,0.005793,0.007832,0.001317
HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman:SZ43,0.122929,0.145221,0.01697 ,-0.019057,0.030775,-0.01506,-0.004465,-0.004154,0.009613,0.020775,0.002436,0.005545,-0.011596,-0.007019,0.00095,-0.006364,0.011343,0.000507,0.005656,-0.00075,-0.006239,0.000989,0.004314,0.006145,-0.001078
HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman:SZ37,0.118376,0.139128,0.01470 8,-0.012597,0.01231,-0.006414,-0.004935,0.011769,0.004704,0.013121,-0.003735,0.004796,-0.013379,-0.001514,-0.008143,-0.00053,-0.00326,-0.005574,0.01257,-0.002626,-0.006738,0.006306,-0.000246,0.001807,-0.006706
HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman:SZ32,0.111547,0.157407,0.01508 5,-0.024871,0.026466,-0.015618,0.00141,-0.002308,0.005727,0.019135,0.002598,0.001798,-0.011298,-0.008808,-0.004072,0.002784,0.003651,0.001014,-0.000126,-0.002001,-0.006239,0.000495,0.00456,-0.01458,-0.001916
HUN_MA_Szolad_Roman_avg,0.117563,0.150733571428571 ,0.014815571428572,-0.024824857142857,0.026202571428572,-0.01255,-0.000503571428571,-0.000956,0.006019,0.025409,0.000649428571429,0.005 438,-0.011659285714286,-0.003008142857143,-0.004982857142857,-0.001477285714286,0.005569285714286,-0.000398,0.004758428571429,-0.003483714285714,-0.006310285714286,0.003285571428571,0.002606,0.000 378571428571,-0.002224


Medieval Imperial Romans in Hungary sounds like quite the stretch. MA stands for Middle Ages. They are from around 410-600AD.

[ixulescu]

Medieval Imperial Romans in Hungary sounds like quite the stretch. MA stands for Middle Ages. They are from around 410-600AD.

The Medieval Age in Europe starts in the 5th century with the fall of the (Western) Roman Empire.

[Ion Basescul]

The Medieval Age in Europe starts in the 5th century with the fall of the (Western) Roman Empire.

Yes, 5th means 400 AD, not that I expect you to know.

[Lemon Kush]

Stupid question, but how reliable are samples from so long ago?

[vbnetkhio]

Medieval Imperial Romans in Hungary sounds like quite the stretch. MA stands for Middle Ages. They are from around 410-600AD.

what else could those samples be if not remains of the Roman era Pannonian population?

they were still there in the Avar period, according to archaeology:

Apart from this, the oldest records of Slavs in Yugoslavia are to be found in monuments of early Avar culture from the sixth to seventh century. Typical features include, apart from nomad weapons, ornaments of pressed metal, mainly of Byzantine origin and related to the Martynovka type. This culture bears signs of an ethnic conglomeration, including, apart from the Avars and Kutrigurs, the remnants of the Romanized population and also, to a large extent, the Slavs, who were the Avars' main allies in their struggle with the Byzantines.

some probably kept speaking a Romance language as late as 1000 AD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Romance

[ixulescu]

Yes, 5th means 400 AD, not that I expect you to know.

Imbecile, you said a post ago that 5th and 6th centuries AD are not part of the Medieval Age in Europe. They are, dumbass.

[Ion Basescul]

what else could those samples be if not remains of the Roman era Pannonian population?

they were still there in the Avar period, according to archaeology:


some probably kept speaking a Romance language as late as 1000 AD
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pannonian_Romance

Could be anything really, like some kind of mixes that produce similar results. The supplementary information from the study could provide more information for each grave, but I am not that interested to look into this at the moment.

[vbnetkhio]

Could be anything really, like some kind of mixes that produce similar results. The supplementary information from the study could provide more information for each grave, but I am not that interested to look into this at the moment.

they are immigrants, but they lived together somewhere else (maybe somewhere else in Pannonia?) before coming to Szolad.


Conversely, all individuals with >70% ‘southern’ancestry had relatively homogenous 87Sr/86Sr values, suggesting a possibly shared background that was nevertheless in a different place from what has been interpreted to be local for Szólád2

[vbnetkhio]

There are scaled? Seems mainly continental Celtic-like, but some look Slavic-like admixed ( I know it is Bronze Age but still).



I´ve made this PCA for another thread (that´s why it has Iberian BA ), but it´s enough to see the samples are basically "modern Germanic type" .

https://i.imgur.com/XUZMvF8.png

I think this would be the most proper way to compare them to modern populations: (a WHG,EEF,ANE,Iran_N based plot)
https://i.imgur.com/gNlD55F.png

the more southern ones are very similar to the modern Spanish, Portuguese and French (not Basques).

The northern ones are outside of the modern European range.
They show up as Northern Slavic or Germanic in some analyses, but they are actually like neither of those but a third distinct cluster.

[vbnetkhio]

Do you have K13 for these samples?

they are like these:



BR1_Hungary_Mako_Culture_2100_BC_2100_BC_,31.34,35 .95,23.66,0,5.5,0.5,0.07,1.92,0,0.28,0.23,0.23,0.3 2
BR2_Hungary_1200_BC,36.93,28.56,19.82,0.14,11.16,2 .35,0,0,0,0,0.51,0,0.54
DA191_Hungary_Scythian.SG_2524_ybp,37.53,35.87,12. 78,0,11.28,0,0,0,0.69,0,0,0,1.85
DA194_Hungary_Scythian.SG_2312_ybp,39.86,31.59,18. 46,1.66,4.07,1.67,0.18,1.09,0.17,1.02,0.22,0,0
DA195_Hungary_Scythian.SG_2553_ybp,30.1,22.95,19.0 6,7.57,16.74,0.11,0.78,0.15,0,0.98,0.27,0.94,0.35
DA197_Hungary_Scythian.SG_2510_ybp,34.23,27.48,20. 02,5.92,9.3,0.79,0,0,0.4,0.06,0.35,0,1.45
DA198_Hungary_Scythian_550_BC_,25.4,12.18,30.3,6.0 4,23.39,1.58,0,0,0,0.63,0,0.48,0
I3528_Hungary_Bell_Beaker_EBA_4300_ybp,31.3,37.47, 20.6,0,6.8,2.25,0,0.63,0,0,0.94,0,0
I7040_Hungary_BA_4300_ybp,31.17,15.97,28.77,4.25,1 4.25,2.67,0,0,0,0,2.09,0,0.81
I7043_Hungary_BA_4000_ybp,28.77,16.72,26.65,7.33,1 7.44,1.34,0,0.03,0.88,0.19,0.66,0,0
RISE479_Hungary_Vatya.SG_3700_ybp,29.72,42.42,19.8 7,0,4.01,2.3,0,0,0,0.35,1.15,0,0.19
RISE483_Hungary_Vatya.SG_3700_ybp,31.69,16.1,26.43 ,2.79,17.67,3.82,0,0,0,1.51,0,0,0


(I checked which ones cluster with the Mokrin samples in G25)