Do you get Tatar 23andme matches

[Zoro]

I’m curious to see how many Europeans and west Asians get Tartar matches on 23andme since we’ve been getting some.

The way you can tell if a match is likely Tatar is on 23andme they are mostly eastern European with about 10% east Asian and central Asian and about 10% W. Asian.

One way to check is to go to your DNA relatives page and select Russia from Ancestral birthplaces and check those Russian matches one by one to see if they are likely Tatar

[Zoro]

Even if you don’t have Tatar matches I would be curious as to how many Russian matches you get with 4 grand parents Russian. I would’ve expected that some E Europeans or Turks or Azeris or other Caucasians would have a Tatar match but I could be wrong

[Kaspias]

1 Crimean Tatar, 2 Volga Tatar, 1 Kazakh/Siberian Tatar mixed.

0 Russian, 7 Ukrainian. I also have significantly elevated Polish matches, the rank goes like: Romania(23), Bulgaria(23), Poland(19), Greece(18), Serbia(16)...

[Zoro]

1 Crimean Tatar, 2 Volga Tatar, 1 Kazakh/Siberian Tatar mixed.

0 Russian, 7 Ukrainian. I also have significantly elevated Polish matches, the rank goes like: Romania(23), Bulgaria(23), Poland(19), Greece(18), Serbia(16)...

Do the Tatars have the breakdown like i mentioned?

For example one of our matches is mtdna U5b1b and has about 72% E European, 6.5% E Asian, 4% C Asian, 11% W Asian. I assume it’s Volga Tatar because they are very close to kurds on formal stats

[Kaspias]

Do the Tatars have the breakdown like i mentioned?

For example one of our matches is mtdna U5b1b and has about 72% E European, 6.5% E Asian, 4% C Asian, 11% W Asian. I assume it’s Volga Tatar because they are very close to kurds on formal stats

I can't see the Crimean Tatar's profile. Both Volga Tatars have 10% CA and 10% EA. Kazakh/Siberian Tatar has 35% EA, 20% CA, and 10% WA.

One of the Volga Tatars has Q-L275, the other has basal R1a. Kazakh/Siberian Tatar has O-F46.

[Zoro]

I can't see the Crimean Tatar's profile. Both Volga Tatars have 10% CA and 10% EA. Kazakh/Siberian Tatar has 35% EA, 20% CA, and 10% WA.

One of the Volga Tatars has Q-L275, the other has basal R1a. Kazakh/Siberian Tatar has O-F46.

It’s works out good for Tatars that 23andme doesn’t have Tatar references, otherwise they would also be like kurds turks and iranians. They would turn out 95%+ Tatar. Sometimes it’s good if the references are further from you such as E European references from Tatars.

If 23andme didn’t have W Asian references close to kurds turks iranians such as if they only had balkan references then kurds turks iranians would have a much larger E Asian or C Asian % on 23andme

[Dr_Maul]

0 Tatars out of the relevant countries I have relatives (Russia and Poland)

[Zoro]

0 Tatars out of the relevant countries I have relatives (Russia and Poland)


How many 4gp or 3gp Russian Romanian Czech Polish and Mexican relatives?

For example my mom (100% Kurdish) on 23andme V5 (has much smaller database than V4) gets 4gp
13 Turks
10 Iran
2 Russian
1 Romania
2 Mexican
1 hungary
1 Norway

Ofc she gets many more with 2gp and 3 gp but I don’t count those.

[Zoro]

This Ukranian blogger writes extensively on the presence of Kurds in the Ukraine and east in the Iron Age. Since I’m not familiar with the history of that region and Bulgars and Chuvash I take everything with a grain of salt. In fact, kurds didn’t even form until Iranian chl hybridized with Steppe Indo-Iranics. Maybe when he says kurds he means 1 of 3 or 4 kurd ancestors such as Sarmatians and Scythians?

https://www.v-stetsyuk.name/en/Scythian/Cimmer.html



The presence of the ancient Kurds on the Dnieper right bank immediately raises the question of how they got there. According to the general movement of the Iranian tribes from their initial settlements between the Dnieper and the Don eastward and southeastward, it can be assumed that the ancestors of the Kurds came to the Azov steppes, and from there crossed the Dnieper and later moved northwestward, displacing more ancient settlers – the Thracians to the south-west and the Bulgar to the west. The band of Kurdish settlements from the town of Gaysin and further along the Dniester River on the west may mark the path, but the presence of names of Kurdish origin in Chernihiv, Kyiv, and Zhytomyr Regions gives the warrant to consider an option when the ancestors of the Kurds from their Urheimat went – downstream of the river Desna to the Dnieper River, crossed it and moved westward. This migration could last a long time, and some of the inhabitants of new sites were retained, whilst others went away. They could keep the names of villages and rivers for a long time.
It was in those places along the middle reaches of the Dniester, where the accumulation of Kurdish toponyms is observed, twice, in 1878 and 1897, treasures of gold objects were found in the village of Mikhalkiv, Ternopil Region, on the right bank of the Nichlava River. Treasures are dated back to the 6th cent. BC, that is they are two centuries older than the finds from the famous Scythian barrows Kul Oba and Chertomlyk. The treasures with a total weight of more than seven kilograms include a diadem, a hryvnia, five bracelets, 12 brooches, seven badges, a pyramid pendant, four bowls, and other items [PETROVS'KIY OLEKSANDR., 1993: 8]. M.I.




Slavic Iranian language connections and, especially, separate Kurdish-Ukrainian lexical correspondences give reason to assume that some part of the Kurds dwelled on the territory of Ukraine before the Slavs appeared here. The same is evidenced by the data of the epigraphy of the Northern Black Sea region, therefore, one of the peoples mentioned by ancient historians, in particular, Herodotus, can be associated with the Kurds. Apparently, such a people could have been the Alizons (Alazones), whom Herodotus placed somewhat south of the Scythian plowmen in the area where the Dniester (Tiras) and the Southern Bug (Hypanius) are not very far from each other (HERODOTUS, IV, 52). It is in this place that the largest accumulation of Kurdish place names is located (see the map above, where both rivers are highlighted in blue).


Table 15. Chuvash-Kurdish lexical parallels

Kurdish and other Iranian Chuvash
bet “a bustard” větel “woodkock”
kere “butter”, Gil kəre “butter” kěrě "fat"
kerdî “furrow” kěrche “wrinkled”
qarîk “a raven”, qarîtk “a partridge” karăk “a wood grouse”
qure “proud” küren “to be offended”
nar “fire”, Pers nar “fire” nar “blush”
pek “suitable” pek “like, similar”
sap “a ladle” sapa "basket"
saman “riches" semen “riches”
stûr “thick”, and other Ir. satur “strong”
soma “pupil of eye” săna “to observe”
sor “red”, Pers sorx “red” sără “paint”
sehre “sorcery, witchcraft” seхre "fear";
semer “darkness” sěm “darkness”
çal “a pit”, Pers čal “a pit” çăl “a well, source”
çîrt “pus” çěrt “to let rot”
çîban “a pimple” çăpan “a furuncle”
çêl “a cow” çile “udder”
tar “a pole” tar “a poplar”
taw “a downpour” tăvăl “a storm”
tobe “an oath” tupa “an oath”
toraq “cheese” turăx “fermented baked milk”
xumar “morose”, xumari “darkness” xămăr “brown”

[Multicolor]

Tatar = Turk + Mongol

[Edgü]

This Ukranian blogger writes extensively on the presence of Kurds in the Ukraine and east in the Iron Age. Since I’m not familiar with the history of that region and Bulgars and Chuvash I take everything with a grain of salt. In fact, kurds didn’t even form until Iranian chl hybridized with Steppe Indo-Iranics. Maybe when he says kurds he means 1 of 3 or 4 kurd ancestors such as Sarmatians and Scythians?

https://www.v-stetsyuk.name/en/Scythian/Cimmer.html







Table 15. Chuvash-Kurdish lexical parallels

Kurdish and other Iranian Chuvash
bet “a bustard” větel “woodkock”
kere “butter”, Gil kəre “butter” kěrě "fat"
kerdî “furrow” kěrche “wrinkled”
qarîk “a raven”, qarîtk “a partridge” karăk “a wood grouse”
qure “proud” küren “to be offended”
nar “fire”, Pers nar “fire” nar “blush”
pek “suitable” pek “like, similar”
sap “a ladle” sapa "basket"
saman “riches" semen “riches”
stûr “thick”, and other Ir. satur “strong”
soma “pupil of eye” săna “to observe”
sor “red”, Pers sorx “red” sără “paint”
sehre “sorcery, witchcraft” seхre "fear";
semer “darkness” sěm “darkness”
çal “a pit”, Pers čal “a pit” çăl “a well, source”
çîrt “pus” çěrt “to let rot”
çîban “a pimple” çăpan “a furuncle”
çêl “a cow” çile “udder”
tar “a pole” tar “a poplar”
taw “a downpour” tăvăl “a storm”
tobe “an oath” tupa “an oath”
toraq “cheese” turăx “fermented baked milk”
xumar “morose”, xumari “darkness” xămăr “brown”


Chuvash turăx ‘sour milk’, according to Fedotov’s etymological dictionary, has a secure Turkic etymology, cf. Old Turkic tar ‘buttermilk’. This word in Chuvash or some other early Turkic language is probably the source of Common Slavonic *tvarogŭ (which was even further borrowed into German as Quark) as well as Hungarian túró. It is also claimed by Fedotov to be the origin of MariE torə̑k, MariW tarə̑k.

Not all of those words are Iranic in origin some of them are Turkic around 10 of them should be Turkic

[Abriekman]

I have some Tatar matches on 23andme, all of them are admixed with Russians very likely

[Multicolor]

If you have 0% maximum Siberian DNA, and 0% South East Asian DNA, instead you receive 3.81% Ancestral_Altai DNA? You are 0% proto-turk or 3.81% proto-turk?

[IrisSelene]

how do i even look for that? lol

[Leto]

I assume it’s Volga Tatar because they are very close to kurds on formal stats
Volga Tatars are not similar to Kurds whatsoever, objectively speaking. If your formal stats show otherwise, that method must be seriously misleading.

[IrisSelene]

all of my matches (at least the higher ones) mainly just have less than 1% east asian (mongolian and japanese usually)... None of them seem to have more than that, and none of them have west asian or central asian.

lol My west asian is the highest among them, at 1.5%...

Also WHY the hell 90% of my matches seem to be northwestern/polish mixes????

[Zoro]

I have some Tatar matches on 23andme, all of them are admixed with Russians very likely

What’s their 23andme admixture breakdown

[Abriekman]

What’s their 23andme admixture breakdown

85% Eastern European + 5% East Asian + 5% Central Asian + 5% West Asian, but probably they are not fully Tatar, maybe half Tatar half Russians or admixed with other Turkic or Finno-Ugric peoples

Fully Tatar results on Reddit I saw were 60% Eastern European + 20% Central Asian + 15% West Asian + 5% East Asian

[Zoro]

If you have 0% maximum Siberian DNA, and 0% South East Asian DNA, instead you receive 3.81% Ancestral_Altai DNA? You are 0% proto-turk or 3.81% proto-turk?

Idk I wouldn’t put too much faith in it because i doubt that component was based on actual ancient dna from proto-turks such as xiongnu

[Zoro]

Volga Tatars are not similar to Kurds whatsoever, objectively speaking. If your formal stats show otherwise, that method must be seriously misleading.

Hey man i’m just the messenger. Harvard designed Admixtools. I’ll rephrase to make it clear what I’m referring to. Out of the limited W Asians and E Europeans genotyped to 1240k and included in the Reich dataset some Kurmanji Iraqi kurds shared the most drift with Volga Tatars with the exception of a couple of E European population on F2s. I didn’t design the software harvard did. It’s probably shared Iron-Age steppe. There has been other papers that showed results somewhat consistent. Maybe that’s the reason for Tatar matches on 23andme

Now ofc doesn’t mean Volga Tatars topped the list for those kurmanji kurds

[Zoro]

all of my matches (at least the higher ones) mainly just have less than 1% east asian (mongolian and japanese usually)... None of them seem to have more than that, and none of them have west asian or central asian.

lol My west asian is the highest among them, at 1.5%...

Also WHY the hell 90% of my matches seem to be northwestern/polish mixes????

Maybe alot more W Europeans testing with them?

[Zoro]

If you’re a turk, iranian, kurd, Pashtun, etc you have Iron age Turkic/Iranic admixture but don’t be concerned if some admixture calculator doesn’t show it. I can pretty much guarantee you’ll see it in formal stats if you use a w asian Chalcolithic population + steppe-IA to model yourself

[IrisSelene]

Maybe alot more W Europeans testing with them?

Maybe lol I guess I'll have to wait for more eastern ppl to get tested

[tipirneni]

Even though I get many Turkish matches on GED, on 23andme it is mostly Polish, Italian, Spanish, Irish, UK matches. There are no Tatar matches even though it matches on GED.

[Zoro]

Even though I get many Turkish matches on GED, on 23andme it is mostly Polish, Italian, Spanish, Irish, UK matches. There are no Tatar matches even though it matches on GED.

How do you know it’s Tartar and what kind of settings do you use on gedmatch (default 7cM?)

Interesting you get W European matches on 23andme. Are they 4gp. Because we don’t get any W European 4gp matches except for a Norwegian. Ofc i’m not counting US and Canada since it’s hard to know what they are

[Dr_Maul]

How many 4gp or 3gp Russian Romanian Czech Polish and Mexican relatives?

For example my mom (100% Kurdish) on 23andme V5 (has much smaller database than V4) gets 4gp
13 Turks
10 Iran
2 Russian
1 Romania
2 Mexican
1 hungary
1 Norway

Ofc she gets many more with 2gp and 3 gp but I don’t count those.

4gp only:
Iran 36
United States 30
Italy 7
United Kingdom 1
Mexico 1
Azerbaijan 2
Ireland 1
Lebanon 1
Brazil 2

[tipirneni]

How do you know it’s Tartar and what kind of settings do you use on gedmatch (default 7cM?)

Interesting you get W European matches on 23andme. Are they 4gp. Because we don’t get any W European 4gp matches except for a Norwegian. Ofc i’m not counting US and Canada since it’s hard to know what they are

The European matches are all 4GP, however I have few mixed 50/50 Indian/European matches that show 3GP.

[RicoSuave]

Idk, because I have low budget 23andme free upload. In MyHeritage I can see all matches Central Asian %.