Kaspias Big Y Result

[Kaspias]

No Y matches, neither the BigY matches. We're somewhat close in Y12 with Bulgarian individual also sharing 69 SNPs that makes us closest to each other among all tested individuals. Considering we're from the same region, we probably have a common ancestor/origin. However, since we do not match in real terms it is safe to say the overlap is not recent. Further conclusions might change according to TMRCA yet unfortunately Yfull does not provide TMRCA of our clade for now. But it is certain that the clade has Baykal/Altay Hunter-Gatherer deep origin, carried through Scythian/Saka, Xiongnu, and later Turkic groups as well as the populations in their spreading range.

Q-L54>L330>YP771>BZ180>BZ181>F16045(F15008*)

https://i.ibb.co/tMmSCT9/snp.png

YFull (https://www.yfull.com/live/tree/Q-L330/). See the "live" version for a better view:

https://i.ibb.co/hV9vLFK/yfull.png

[RatCat]

Congrats! Very cool :)

[zebruh]

Haplogroup Q?
Ghenhis khan?

[Kyp]

:thumb001:

[Altaylı]

Very cool Haplogroup :cool::thumb001::fhhorse:

[Kaspias]

Thank you all for your comments!


Haplogroup Q?
Ghenhis khan?

I doubt Genghis was Q though. :D



SNP sharing is completed and updated. Despite we three(Xinjiang, Vratsa, Rodopi) cluster under the same clade we share more SNPs with the Bulgarian.

https://i.ibb.co/Vj8vnvK/xxxx.png

I predict that TMRCA with Xinjiang is 2000 to 2800 ybp and 1400 to 2200 ybp with the Bulgarian. But keep in my mind that this is just my amateur calculation.

[Lucas]

Thank you all for your comments!



I doubt Genghis was Q though. :D



SNP sharing is completed and updated. Despite we three(Xinjiang, Vratsa, Rodopi) cluster under the same clade we share more SNPs with the Bulgarian.

https://i.ibb.co/Vj8vnvK/xxxx.png

I predict that TMRCA with Xinjiang is 2000 to 2800 ybp and 1400 to 2200 ybp with the Bulgarian. But keep in my mind that this is just my amateur calculation.
Russian is from Altay?

[Kaspias]

Russian is from Altay?

Neolithic Hunter-Gatherer from the Cis-Baikal, Irkutsk. His age is 5202 ybp.

[zebruh]

Russian is from Altay?Altay is not really russian but russia controls it.
Its turkic steppe herder territory. Altaic Turks are the closest old world populations to native americans beside actual siberian natives and aluetians.

[Artek]

Congratulations. I have wondered who represents the newest sample from Bulgaria and now I know.

[Kaspias]

An update here,

A Karachay listed under BZ181. He claims for Istanbul(Balkan Turkish?) origin for his great-grandfather. That claim appears in autosomal DNA, too.

https://i.ibb.co/HrZD6qT/Kara-ay.png

I find it fantastic that although his SNP is prolly mutated in the first expansion, around Altay Mountains as explained below, and mine as well as Bulgarian's in the second expansion in the Tian Shan, we're all ended up in the same region as descendants of these brothers after around 2500 years.

I can pretty much draw the migration route of our ancestors with current information. But I can not name under what name they migrated. It could be Hun, Bulgar, Kipchak, Pecheneg, Avar, or a more recent input, Tatar. You can make your own conclusion considering the odds.

https://i.ibb.co/Hzd0xFP/Map.png

[Zoltan]

I’m glad your test is finally done and uploaded to YFull! The descendants of YP771 were all Scythians and Huns. Our ancestors were relatives :)

[Kaspias]

Yfull updated the tree (https://www.yfull.com/tree/Q-BZ180*/), and I received my age estimation. TMRCA is 1250 (550<->2400) ybp by my line only. Note that I also match in terms of STRs with YF81155 in the same range(~1100 years.) He has additional mutated SNPs though, which confuses me.


Besides, it has been very interesting for me the last three months, recent articles supplied ancient samples that have exact same clade as I.


Q-F15008(F16045)

Distance to: Hun_DA20
0.02432736 Mogush
0.02521092 Buryat
0.02594845 Khamnegan
0.02673444 Tuvinian
0.02749364 Altaian
0.02817352 Khakass_Kachins

Distance to: Hun_KBO001
0.02022033 Mogush
0.02059933 Buryat
0.02181101 Tuvinian
0.02293892 Altaian
0.02323906 Khamnegan
0.02328055 Khakass_Kachins

Distance to: Mongolia_MLBA_I13767
0.02063449 Khakass
0.02426226 Khakass_Kachins
0.02446515 Shor
0.02668311 Tubalar
0.02759778 Mogush
0.02783987 Shor_Mountain

Distance to: Pazyryk_BRE002
0.01858344 Buryat
0.02075905 Khamnegan
0.02136258 Altaian
0.02155638 Mogush
0.02172014 Kalmyk
0.02191979 Mongolian

Also a clade above, FT421589.

Distance to: Altay_MLBA_I6348
0.02482516 Shor_Mountain
0.02527780 Shor_Khakassia
0.02535294 Shor
0.02615884 Khakass
0.02722988 Tubalar
0.03550778 Khakass_Kachins

The meta clade BZ180 has many other samples.


Distance to: Altay_MLBA_I13174
0.02377063 Shor
0.02580176 Shor_Mountain
0.02756609 Khakass
0.02780434 Shor_Khakassia
0.02919042 Tubalar
0.03615974 Khakass_Kachins


Distance to: Mongolia_MLBA_I13766
0.02398716 Altaian
0.02524540 Khakass
0.02549516 Khakass_Kachins
0.02682791 Tubalar
0.02711430 Mogush
0.02921945 Tuvinian


Distance to: Altay_MLBA_ARS005
0.01981393 Altaian
0.02020377 Khakass_Kachins
0.02374307 Mogush
0.02582570 Khakass
0.02598346 Tuvinian
0.02891631 Mongolian

Distance to: Altay_MLBA_ARS004
0.02358555 Khakass_Kachins
0.02373007 Altaian
0.02746409 Khakass
0.02792599 Mogush
0.03030640 Tuvinian
0.03057349 Tubalar

Distance to: Altay_MLBA_ARS001
0.02442359 Khakass
0.02530642 Mogush
0.02546825 Altaian
0.02654769 Tuvinian
0.02798818 Khakass_Kachins
0.02914807 Shor

Distance to: Slab_Grave_EIA_I6359
0.02585904 Altaian
0.02652760 Khakass
0.02718206 Khakass_Kachins
0.02794259 Tubalar
0.02930064 Shor
0.03034197 Mogush

Distance to: Sarmatian_Caspian_DA141
0.02794339 Tajik_Rushan
0.02836433 Tajik_Shugnan
0.03211310 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.03291854 Tajik_Yagnobi
0.03419231 Tajik
0.03813171 Tabasaran

Distance to: Early_Xiongnu_SKT007
0.02286956 Khakass
0.02446781 Shor
0.02593362 Tubalar
0.02687298 Khakass_Kachins
0.02724038 Mogush
0.02876042 Altaian

Distance to: Late_Xiongnu_BTO001
0.02001926 Kazakh_China
0.02237718 Kalmyk
0.02240927 Mongolian
0.02258905 Kirghiz_China
0.02312507 Kirghiz
0.02529478 Altaian

All these samples are exactly the same parallel as Turkic expansion, from the proto form to medieval. Altay MLBA comes out as the deepest origin and shows some interactions with Khovsgol. However, the contact with Mongols takes place when Slab Grave culture started to expand.

https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/alta-mlba-ulaanzuukh-slab-grave-768x384.jpg

The interaction of Steppe MLBA and Altay MLBA leads the forming of Pazyryk and Uyuk cultures, where the Eastern Scythian culture also will appear. At that stage, the haplogroup seems to be prominent in the region, from Pazyryk to Slab Grave.

https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/iron-age-early-saka-uyuk-pazyryk-slab-grave.jpg

The presence of the clade within Sarmatians may point out mutual assimilations between Turks and Sarmatians. Besides, we see that many Huns with that clade which point out the transformation of Uyuk and Pazyryk to Xiongnu/Hun that started a great mobilization in the region and led L330 to spread beyond the Altay Mountains.

One thing here is the clade probably went into a bottleneck in the early middle ages as well as medieval which is why L330 is rare today as well as why have not seen in any medieval samples yet. Due to this, we do not know with whom it was carried to the Balkans, therefore could not draw a certain route. However, the earlier periods are pretty imaginable:

Siberia Cis Baykal(?) -> Altay MLBA -> Pazyryk/Uyuk/Sagly -> Xiongnu/Hun -> Turkic Khanate


https://indo-european.eu/wp-content/uploads/2021/06/xiongnu-empire-genetics-1.jpg