About 50% of central and southern Italians are descended from Middle Eastern by 2000-1300 BCE

[manu15151513]

This is essentially the cause of the presence of the greatest Caucasian-hunther-gathers descent in central-southern Italy among almost all Europeans, which is also true for the Cretans, as well as the presence of paternal haplogroups such as J2 and J1; It seems that J2 and J1 began to be present in Europe for the first time among the Cretans, about 4000-5000 years ago, and then starting from 3500-4000 years ago among the central-southern Italians. It seems that migrants of kura-araxes have expanded by replacing most of the Middle Eastern populations by distributing also there caucasian-hunther-gathers and J2. In Italy it could have been brought by the Cretans and immediately neighboring people since it was present in the Cretans before the Italians, but given the limited population of the Crete era, the population of central-southern Italy of its totality of the time and the relative importance of this migration where J2 reaches a certain frequency, it seems much more reasonable to hypothesize gradual and addictive gene flows that began around 2000 BCE and ended around 1300 BCE. Considering that probably before entering Europe they mixed a little with the pre-existing Middle Eastern peoples they met on their way probably on eurogenes k13 they would have had about 35% of West Asian. Given that Yamnaya is responsible for a very small part of West Asian in Europe, given that areas with a lot of Yamnaya derivation score very little West Asian on Eurogenes K13 and given that central-southern Italians on average score about 14-17% of West Asian on Eurogenes K13 , it seems reasonable to assume that on average at least 14% derives from these migrants, and therefore given that 35% * 2.85 = 99.75 14 * 2.85 = about 40% of ancestors linked to this migration. This is obviously not perfect and these gross variables may not be accurate enough, so looking at paternal haplogroups and deducing likely correlations with autosomal actually linked to gene flow can also help. This seems to lead to higher percentages. I dare say that on average about half of the ancestors of central and southern Italians derive from them. There is no noticeable difference between center and north on this one, just as the very high presence in both the center and the south indicates, and even higher in many areas of central than Calabria or areas close to the Caucasus according to some reports I have seen. ! The same calculations made here considering the Iberians return a probable descent from this gene flow of a measly 3% more or less considering West Asian and a little more integrating the haplotypes they brought, about 5-13%; considering other territories, such as northern greece / southern albania, it seems plausible that a certain fraction of West Asian descends from yamnaya and therefore that the real lineage from this gene stream is 17-24%; it therefore seems that central-southern Italians and Cretans are the only ones to substantially descend from this gene flow, to have a very substantial "recent" Middle Eastern contribution, due to their genetic similarity with Middle Eastern Neolithic migrants to this flow genic, and not to the Neolithic peasants of about 7000-8000 years ago. So Italians and Cretans seem the only Europeans who owe their essential Middle Eastern contribution to this rather than to the peasant Neolithics. Besides them, only Albanians and Greeks in general have a substantial contribution, but on average it is only 17-24%! From all this discourse the Sardinians are obviously excluded essentially. Central-southern Italians therefore have on average half their ancestors in the Middle East around 2500 BCE, compared to the Iberians who have 5% and the Northern Greeks and Albanians who have 20% (autosomal average + probable considerations on haplogroups and their correlation with autosomal and genetic drift)




1)https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/chalcolithic_europe.png

2)https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/early_bronze_age_europe.gif

3)https://cache.eupedia.com/images/content/middle_bronze_age_europe.png


This explains the huge anatolian farmer in Italy, it is almost totally Neolithic eight thousand years ago in Europe but in Italy it is mostly so "recent" https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/15259642_1244197215642330_7420454771337567679_o.jp g?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=0qZcRHcSs_QAX_9tfsK&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=9d497ee64e2cd42ab73c68e38cb082ad&oe=6083E655






Probably Northern Italy descends from these Middle Eastern migrants only for 15-25% on average.

[TheMaestro]

Are you pointing at yourself?

[Flashball]

This is essentially the cause of the presence of the greatest Caucasian-hunther-gathers descent in central-southern Italy among almost all Europeans, which is also true for the Cretans, as well as the presence of paternal haplogroups such as J2 and J1; It seems that J2 and J1 began to be present in Europe for the first time among the Cretans, about 4000-5000 years ago, and then starting from 3500-4000 years ago among the central-southern Italians. It seems that migrants of kura-araxes have expanded by replacing most of the Middle Eastern populations by distributing also there caucasian-hunther-gathers and J2. In Italy it could have been brought by the Cretans and immediately neighboring people since it was present in the Cretans before the Italians, but given the limited population of the Crete era, the population of central-southern Italy of its totality of the time and the relative importance of this migration where J2 reaches a certain frequency, it seems much more reasonable to hypothesize gradual and addictive gene flows that began around 2000 BCE and ended around 1300 BCE. Considering that probably before entering Europe they mixed a little with the pre-existing Middle Eastern peoples they met on their way probably on eurogenes k13 they would have had about 35% of West Asian. Given that Yamnaya is responsible for a very small part of West Asian in Europe, given that areas with a lot of Yamnaya derivation score very little West Asian on Eurogenes K13 and given that central-southern Italians on average score about 14-17% of West Asian on Eurogenes K13 , it seems reasonable to assume that on average at least 14% derives from these migrants, and therefore given that 35% * 2.85 = 99.75 14 * 2.85 = about 40% of ancestors linked to this migration. This is obviously not perfect and these gross variables may not be accurate enough, so looking at paternal haplogroups and deducing likely correlations with autosomal actually linked to gene flow can also help. This seems to lead to higher percentages. I dare say that on average about half of the ancestors of central and southern Italians derive from them. There is no noticeable difference between center and north on this one, just as the very high presence in both the center and the south indicates, and even higher in many areas of central than Calabria or areas close to the Caucasus according to some reports I have seen. ! The same calculations made here considering the Iberians return a probable descent from this gene flow of a measly 3% more or less considering West Asian and a little more integrating the haplotypes they brought, about 5-13%; considering other territories, such as northern greece / southern albania, it seems plausible that a certain fraction of West Asian descends from yamnaya and therefore that the real lineage from this gene stream is 17-24%; it therefore seems that central-southern Italians and Cretans are the only ones to substantially descend from this gene flow, to have a very substantial "recent" Middle Eastern contribution, due to their genetic similarity with Middle Eastern Neolithic migrants to this flow genic, and not to the Neolithic peasants of about 7000-8000 years ago. So Italians and Cretans seem the only Europeans who owe their essential Middle Eastern contribution to this rather than to the peasant Neolithics. Besides them, only Albanians and Greeks in general have a substantial contribution, but on average it is only 17-24%! From all this discourse the Sardinians are obviously excluded essentially. Central-southern Italians therefore have on average half their ancestors in the Middle East around 2500 BCE, compared to the Iberians who have 5% and the Northern Greeks and Albanians who have 20% (autosomal average + probable considerations on haplogroups and their correlation with autosomal and genetic drift)



This explains the huge anatolian farmer in Italy, it is almost totally Neolithic eight thousand years ago in Europe but in Italy it is mostly so "recent" https://scontent-mxp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t31.0-8/15259642_1244197215642330_7420454771337567679_o.jp g?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-3&_nc_sid=9267fe&_nc_ohc=0qZcRHcSs_QAX_9tfsK&_nc_ht=scontent-mxp1-1.xx&oh=9d497ee64e2cd42ab73c68e38cb082ad&oe=6083E655






Probably Northern Italy descends from these Middle Eastern migrants only for 15-25% on average.

They talk about Caucasian Hunter Gatherer, not Anatolian Hunter Gatherer (aka farmer).