View Full Version : Vahaduo Kype and his agenda
Demhat
04-04-2021, 08:23 PM
Hey Lucas since you didn't answer my PM. And you didn't seem to care about the fact that. Dubious liars like Kype and Leto, who claims to be a East European (with hard fettish for West, South and Central Asia ) do what they want with Kurdish samples.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?334700-Dodecad-k12b-West-Central-amp-South-Asian-results-Vol-3&p=7067059&viewfull=1#post7067059
Actually I mostly go with western academic classifcations. "Azerbaijani" is a recognized ethnicity nowadays. Everything else is political (to me personally). So I urge you to stick to estbalished academic facts to remain the universal character of the list. For example origin of Zazas is not 100% established as Kurdish, I would stick to "Zaza" in this case.
If I would ask my grandmother what ethnicity she is, she would answer "Turk" like 95% of old Azerbaijani people. Now this doesn't mean she doesn't consider herself Iranian too, have you understand? Saying Azerbaijanis are Persian is political in the same way like saying Azerbaijanis are not Iranian because they speak Turkish.
Yes the same Lucas. You can post your demands in this thread (like other members, not only me) or PM him
Interestingly you guys go with "Western classifications" when it suits your agenda and always then when it is not in favour of Kurds. If you are so into Western classification how does it come that Feylis are listed as "Iran_Feyli" in this data set and seperated by the Iran_Kurdish average. Despite Feyli(Kelhuri/Leki) being classified virtually by any linguist as part of the Kurdish Dialects?
Lucas you should seriously keep a closer eye on these things, because people with agendas are obviously manipulating the datasets.
It shouldn't be allowed to random people to create their own datasets.
Halgurd
04-04-2021, 08:46 PM
Agreed. The same goes for Ezidi Kurds too.
A lot of people just seem to be spouting the nonsense of european orientalists who were writing journals about which subgroup is Kurd and which subgroup is not Kurd whilst being
completely oblivious to self identification.
What is next? How long until they decide the Sorani are not Kurds? It's laughable at this point.
Demhat
04-04-2021, 08:57 PM
Agreed. The same goes for Ezidi Kurds too.
A lot of people just seem to be spouting the nonsense of european orientalists who were writing journals about which subgroup is Kurd and which subgroup is not Kurd whilst being
completely oblivious to self identification.
What is next? How long until they decide the Sorani are not Kurds? It's laughable at this point.
That is not even the biggest issue here, it is theplain hypocrisy shown by certain two faced lying members out here. And the fact that no one takes it into account. When it fits the agenda Western schoolars are important. When not it is not?
Always when it is not in favour of Kurds. And the fact that Lucas is closing his eyes to this.
Liar. This is the Feyli Kurdish average that I added:
https://i.imgur.com/VfnCceG.jpg
really a low-blow..
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?310130-NEW!-All-Gedmatch-calculators-on-Vahaduo-ON-LINE&p=7155069&viewfull=1#post7155069
This is asinine. :picard1:
I've been updating Dodecad K12b because I like it and because few people care about it but as for the Kurds I've only had Kurd_Adygea added which is to be deleted since it's not really a distinct population. I'm waiting for Lukasz to remove it. Other than that, I have no idea what you're talking about. Without me there would not be half of the populations in the updated sheet.
Demhat, please close this bullshit and we will forget it. If you don't like the calculator, do not use it. We had nothing against you whatsoever. In fact I even praised you for being R1a ;)
Dr_Maul
04-04-2021, 09:23 PM
Bad take
Leto and Kyp among the most active ones creating averages for this region in K12b. Without their advocacy K12b would be in the shitter for Turkics and Iranics just like almost every other calculator
Bad take
Leto and Kyp among the most active ones creating averages for this region in K12b. Without their advocacy K12b would be in the shitter for Turkics and Iranics just like almost every other calculator
Yep. Actually finding many pops was a real pain in the ass. I had to ask other people to provide me with the Balanovsky data for example. Demhat has not contributed jack to this project. He and Zoro are attacking it because they personally don't score like those averages, I guess. LOL
Yep. Actually finding many pops was a real pain in the ass. I had to ask other people to provide me with the Balanovsky data for example. Demhat has not contributed jack to this project. He and Zoro are attacking it because they personally don't score like those averages, I guess. LOL
I think his problem was that Zaza wasn't listed as Kurdish. But the thing is we didnt create the average and neither are we some kind of patrons of the spreadsheet.
I think his problem was that Zaza wasn't listed as Kurdish. But the problem is that we didnt create the average and neither are we some kind of patrons of the spreadsheet.
Well, I called myself the custodian of D K12b :D but not everything on the list is my addition. I have no opinion on the Zaza. You guys can rename it to Zaza-Kurd or something.
In fact I even praised you for being R1a ;)
wow
A definition of anthrotardism...
Demhat
04-04-2021, 09:50 PM
Liar. This is the Feyli Kurdish average that I added:
https://i.imgur.com/VfnCceG.jpg
Who added the Iran_Feyli?
On top of that if you are so up to "Western science". why are Yezidis listed seperately despite speaking a Kurmanci dialect while Zaza are not because they apparently speak a different language?
Also which Western Science are you even talking about? You personally stated the "kurdishness of Zaza are disputed" , than why did you add Kurdish infront of the other subgroups which creates the assumption and illusion that it is a hard fact that Zaza and Ezidis are not?
I asked you about this repeadetly but you couldn't answer.
Just for the record. Wikipedia and Iranica are not "Western Science sources". Wikipedia and Iranica are secondary source that are meant to summarize other primary sources. But as Wikipedia itself points out. This can and is heavily influenced by the authors personal bias. This is why it is not considered a reliable source by Wikipedia itself.
wow
A definition of anthrotardism...
Yes, I like the Indo-Europeans and celebrate R1a whenever I can. Please don't pick on me in this thread, the topic is entirely different and you have nothing to say about it.
Demhat
04-04-2021, 09:52 PM
Well, I called myself the custodian of D K12b :D but not everything on the list is my addition. I have no opinion on the Zaza. You guys can rename it to Zaza-Kurd or something.
The easiest MOST UNPOLITICAL thing to do is to rename. the Sorani, Kurmanci, Feyli results without using the addition of Kurd.
Demhat
04-04-2021, 09:54 PM
I made this EXACT suggestion but it was ignored by you two why?
If you say you are neutral on this matter but at the same time name some samples with the suffix Kurd while the others not. You are indirectly showing a stance and implying that those without the suffix are not Kurd.
The most simple solution. Take the Kurd suffix away from Kurmanc, Soran and Feyli. Why is it so hard to do that?
Who added the Iran_Feyli?
On top of that if you are so up to "Western science". why are Yezidis listed seperately despite speaking a Kurmanci dialect while Zaza are not because they apparently speak a different language?
Also which Western Science are you even talking about? You personally stated the "kurdishness of Zaza are disputed" , than why did you add Kurdish infront of the other subgroups which creates the assumption and illusion that it is a hard fact that Zaza and Ezidis are not?
I asked you about this repeadetly but you couldn't answer.
Just for the record. Wikipedia and Iranica are not "Western Science sources". Wikipedia and Iranica are secondary source that are meant to summarize other primary sources. But as Wikipedia itself points out. This can and is heavily influenced by the authors personal bias. This is why it is not considered a reliable source by Wikipedia itself.
Dude, just stop. He had no ill intentions. It was added and forgotten soon afterwards. If you had not brought this up, no one would have even batted an eye. It's just a custom/amateur spreadsheet updated to the best of our ability.
I made this EXACT suggestion but it was ignored by you two why?
If you say you are neutral on this matter but at the same time name some samples with the suffix Kurd while the others not. You are indirectly showing a stance and implying that those without the suffix are not Kurd.
The most simple solution. Take the Kurd suffix away from Kurmanc, Soran and Feyli.
I'd rather add Kurd to Yazidi and Zaza.
I made this EXACT suggestion but it was ignored by you two why?
If you say you are neutral on this matter but at the same time name some samples with the suffix Kurd while the others not. You are indirectly showing a stance and implying that those without the suffix are not Kurd.
The most simple solution. Take the Kurd suffix away from Kurmanc, Soran and Feyli. Why is it so hard to do that?
I did not add Zaza, Kurmanji etc. I only added Yazidi and Kurd_Feyli.
I already explained that I had zero intentions/agenda when naming it "Yazidi" and you are free to change it to whatever you like. It's an open spreadsheet (as long as Lukazs apprved) and i'm just a user like yourself.
Demhat
04-04-2021, 10:07 PM
I'd rather add Kurd to Yazidi and Zaza.
Do as you wish. Of course I would prefer this as obviously from my perspective they are clearly Kurds. The most unpolitical stance would be to take Kurd away as suffix from Soran, Kurmanc, Feyli too. I am not trying to push my ideology on people I am trying to make you guys understand since over half a year why I feel the way it is now is not neutral but political. You either give the suffix all or take it away from all.
Do as you wish. Of course I would prefer this as obviously from my perspective they are clearly Kurds. The most unpolitical stance would be to take Kurd away as suffix from Soran, Kurmanc, Feyli too. I am not trying to push my ideology on people I am trying to make you guys understand since over half a year why I feel the way it is now is not neutral but political. You either give the suffix all or take it away from all.
Okay, I've asked him to add Kurd. Like I said without the word Kurd it'd be less recognizeable. Kurds are known to everyone.
Lucas
04-05-2021, 10:12 AM
I can add that without people contribution Dodecad K12 oracle would be poor and outdated like rest of Dodecad sheets. Now it's better than K15 and on pair with K13. Better be hapy from this fact then seeks problems and agendas.
Hey Lucas since you didn't answer my PM. And you didn't seem to care about the fact that. Dubious liars like Kype and Leto, who claims to be a East European (with hard fettish for West, South and Central Asia ) do what they want with Kurdish samples.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?334700-Dodecad-k12b-West-Central-amp-South-Asian-results-Vol-3&p=7067059&viewfull=1#post7067059
Interestingly you guys go with "Western classifications" when it suits your agenda and always then when it is not in favour of Kurds. If you are so into Western classification how does it come that Feylis are listed as "Iran_Feyli" in this data set and seperated by the Iran_Kurdish average. Despite Feyli(Kelhuri/Leki) being classified virtually by any linguist as part of the Kurdish Dialects?
Lucas you should seriously keep a closer eye on these things, because people with agendas are obviously manipulating the datasets.
It shouldn't be allowed to random people to create their own datasets.
First, I will say that:
1- I don't care about Admixture calculators in general. IBS and formal stats such as qpAdm, f3, dstat etc are able to give you much more meaningful results
2- I don't care about Vahaduo now that I have learned how to make Admixture calculators myself
Having said this you're absolutely correct about people associated with Vahaduo having agendas and thinking they know more about Kurd genetics than Dienekes, the Dodecad K12 creator AND Palisto, owner of the KurdishDNA blog, AND you, and Halgurd, and me. This statement alone proves how arrogant and agenda driven they are.
Just like you I posted in the Dodecad K12b thread on 3/26 that their Kurdish average on Vahaduo is wrong based on these evidences:
1- The Sorani and Feyli averages based on 13 Kurdish samples posted WITH screenshots at http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2012/06/kurdish-autosomal-dna-based-on-dodecad.html
2- The Dodecad K12 creator's average which was WILLFULLY not included in Vahaduo AGREED with the results posted on the KurdishDNA blog
3- My 5 Kurdish samples from Iraq AGREED with the Dodecad K12 creator's average AND the KurdishDNA blog's results.
Any person with half a brain would have said OK these evidences outweigh any averages based on a couple of samples sent in by random people. Instead by ignoring they actually proved that they are AGENDA driven. Case closed.
The best thing for Kurds to do is learn about these genetic tools yourself so that you can make your own and not rely on other idiots. Become independent like I learned to do !!
1- The Sorani and Feyli averages based on 13 Kurdish samples posted WITH screenshots at http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2012/06/kurdish-autosomal-dna-based-on-dodecad.html
I'm the one that added this exact Feyli average (see my post on Page1). How can my kurdish average be wrong when it's literally the same that you post here as the correct one? All the other Kurdish averages are not done by me. Your attacks against me are totally baseless. Why don't you guys try to find the actual persons who created the kurdish averages you don't like, instead of insulting some random dudes?
It's really getting laughable by now. Do you even read the posts before attacking somebody?
Why do you guys keep dragging us into this laughable discussion?
vbnetkhio
04-05-2021, 01:11 PM
1- The Sorani and Feyli averages based on 13 Kurdish samples posted WITH screenshots at http://kurdishdna.blogspot.com/2012/06/kurdish-autosomal-dna-based-on-dodecad.html
2- The Dodecad K12 creator's average which was WILLFULLY not included in Vahaduo AGREED with the results posted on the KurdishDNA blog
3- My 5 Kurdish samples from Iraq AGREED with the Dodecad K12 creator's average AND the KurdishDNA blog's results.
that's weird, the official Dodecad averages are calculator affected. They shouldn't be the same as what Kurds actually get in k12b on gedmatch.
I'm the one that added this exact Feyli average (see my post on Page1). How can my kurdish average be wrong when it's literally the same that you post here as the correct one? All the other Kurdish averages are not done by me. Your attacks against me are totally baseless. Why don't you guys try to find the actual persons who created the kurdish averages you don't like, instead of insulting some random dudes?
It's really getting laughable by now. Do you even read the posts before attacking somebody?
Why do you guys keep dragging us into this laughable discussion?
I was generally agreeing with him without naming anyone but if you just updated the Kurdish-Feyli average based on the results on KurdishDNA blog that’s a step in the right direction. What about the Kurdish Sorani average. There are 10 Sorani screenshots on the Kurdish DNA blog. Don’t you think someone should update those as well?
Altaylı
04-05-2021, 01:30 PM
Yes, I like the Indo-Europeans and celebrate R1a whenever I can. Please don't pick on me in this thread, the topic is entirely different and you have nothing to say about it.
If i am R1a then will you do a party for me? :rolleyes:
that's weird, the official Dodecad averages are calculator affected. They shouldn't be the same as what Kurds actually get in k12b on gedmatch.
You’re talking calculator effect. It varies from calculator to calculator based on how it was designed. In the case of Dodecad K12 the creator’s averages were consistent with the 13 sample screenshots at Kurdish DNA blog and my samples so that average should not have been removed
If i am R1a then will you do a party for me? :rolleyes:
Yeah, I will be celebrating it, just don't say R1a is Turkic ;)
Altaylı
04-05-2021, 01:47 PM
Yeah, I will be celebrating it
:party-smiley-007::party-smiley-007::party-smiley-007:
just don't say R1a is Turkic
I will try but i can't promise :d
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