Trying to understand how mutations work !

[Badr madani]

1) How long does it take for a mutation to occur on ydna ?

2) if my ancestors came from middle east 800 years ago with haplogroup j1 , does this haplogroup mutate over time to present day to a new number of the same letter j or it mutates to a totally new haplogroup like E ?

[Petalpusher]

J doesn't mutate in E, they are like 40ky apart. You will be J or E for the rest of you paternal line, until new sub mutations have occured or will occur. That doesn't mean your paternal lineage hasn't intermingled with E's and other haplogroups (that is for sure actually) but only through your maternal sides. That means through the wives of your fathers, that obviously had fathers too, with different Y. This is also why you shouldn't base much on your Y, it defines only a fraction of what you are, a very tiny one indeed.

The rate of mutations vary, there are slow and fast paced markers. We are still talking one in hundreds of generations generally, between 1/200 and 1/800 as a rough idea.

[Badr madani]

J doesn't mutate in E, they are like 40ky apart. You will be J or E for the rest of you paternal line, until new sub mutations have occured or will occur. That doesn't mean your paternal lineage hasn't intermingled with E's and other haplogroups (that is for sure actually) but only through your maternal sides. That means through the wives of your fathers, that obviously had fathers too, with different Y. This is also why you shouldn't base much on your Y, it defines only a fraction of what you are, a very tiny one indeed.

.

So you are saying that even if my haplogroup is middle eastern i may still be considered north african if my male ancestors intermingled mostly with berber females.

I mean middle easterners wont acknowledge me as theirs ?

[Rethel]

So you are saying that even if my haplogroup is middle eastern i may still be considered north african if my male ancestors intermingled mostly with berber females.

It depends on what you understand as North African. Hamite? Berber? Maghrebi Arab? Or just an inhabitant of Northern Africa?

[Badr madani]

It depends on what you understand as North African. Hamite? Berber? Maghrebi Arab? Or just an inhabitant of Northern Africa?

Well thats my problem i dont know how to categorize myself .

My ancestors are from banu hilal who invaded north africa in 12th century AD.

[Rethel]

Well thats my problem i dont know how to categorize myself.

Why?


My ancestors are from banu hilal who invaded north africa in 12th century AD.

How do you know that?
Because the whole group where you live considers itself as such,
or you can proof it in your own case genealogically in straight line?

[Badr madani]

Why?



How do you know that?
Because the whole group where you live considers itself as such,
or you can proof it in your own case genealogically in straight line?

Do you think a familytreeDNA y-dna test will answer my questions . I see that 23andme is more generalized and not accurate.

[Rethel]

Do you think a familytreeDNA y-dna test will answer my questions . I see that 23andme is more generalized and not accurate.

To answer that, I have to know, what I had been asking thee for.

[Petalpusher]

So you are saying that even if my haplogroup is middle eastern i may still be considered north african if my male ancestors intermingled mostly with berber females.


Yes.



I mean middle easterners wont acknowledge me as theirs ?
People wont acknowledge shit based on ydnas they don't know a single thing about.

[Rethel]

People wont acknowledge shit based on ydnas they don't know a single thing about.

But if someone will tell them a lie: "I am Hilal migrant from Hijaz, living in Morocco" they'll do. So, better, if it is a truth, don't you think?

[Badr madani]

But if someone will tell them a lie: "I am Hilal migrant from Hijaz, living in Morocco" they'll do. So, better, if it is a truth, don't you think?

I guess i have no way to figure this out besides doing a Y-DNA test.

All i know for now is that all my family members from father and mother side speak arabic there is no sign of amazigh or tifinagh culture .

My fathers side is from a tribe that descends from banu hilal.

My mothers tribe descends from idrissid roots.

But all this information is taken in consideration according to old historians like ibnou khaldoun and family stories.

I will do it inchallah after Ramadan holy month.

[Rethel]

I guess i have no way to figure this out besides doing a Y-DNA test.

It is the final confirmation, even if you have genealogy, becasue this could be false.


All i know for now is that all my family members from father and mother side speak arabic there is no sign of amazigh or tifinagh culture.

Taking unto account, that 1000 years have passed, it is irrelevant.


My fathers side is from a tribe that descends from banu hilal. But all this information is taken in consideration according to old historians like ibnou khaldoun and family stories.

Then we have the initial factor.

So, now:
— collect biographical information about your family as far as it can be done;
— make genealogy at very minimum your singular line, but
— also you will need other realtives to be connected to you or at least to the family, as far as you can;
— make the Y test and
— couple of confirmation tests to your known the farest realted as possible agnates;
— and then, having right hg, compare it with other tribe members,
— and then with arabian samples.

This is the way as it should be done, if you want to be sure if you are Hilal, other Arab or a Berber.



My mothers tribe descends from idrissid roots.

Irrelevant.

[jfgh676]

I was told that by my father that i was husseini and that the family legend is that we descend directly from the prophet,i later learned that i have G haplogroup as my Y-DNA. It could not be possible since i am not J haplogroup. Many families claim idrissid heritage in morocco for search of prestige. As for being arabian,it depends. According to arab tradition,you are the ethnicity of your father,so according to that you are arab. Technically you are north african amazigh surely most of your dna is. It is your complete choice to choose what you identify as.

[Badr madani]

I was told that by my father that i was husseini and that the family legend is that we descend directly from the prophet,i later learned that i have G haplogroup as my Y-DNA. It could not be possible since i am not J haplogroup. Many families claim idrissid heritage in morocco for search of prestige. As for being arabian,it depends. According to arab tradition,you are the ethnicity of your father,so according to that you are arab. Technically you are north african amazigh surely most of your dna is. It is your complete choice to choose what you identify as.

Thanks my moroccan brother.

I became obsessed with this when i encountered a highly relougious person who acts like a pro muslim brotherhood persona. He made me doubt my origins with his workplace laws and silent treatment.

Today i still have some thoughts about my ethnicity but i think i just should let go and consider myself wald lblad as we say the local.

[reboun]

I don’t know about non-autosomal DNA but autosomal DNA mutates over time. My ancestors might be black Africans 50-100 thousand years ago but their autosomal DNA might have mutated by environmental conditions such as climate and nutrition in a long time.