Ethno-genetic map of Europe and peripheral regions

[reboun]

I've found this map on Pinterest and it seems somehow accurate to me. Do you also think it is accurate?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/15/d8/b215d85fc0b36756a177ad0a69376a13.jpg

[Cristiano viejo]

It is a total nonsense regarding the Iberian peninsula. We are not Middle Easterns nor we feel so of course, but just Celtiberians, while curiously our less Celtizided part is the only one marked in that map :lightbul:

[XenophobicPrussian]

Pretty accurate, I would call "Celtic & Near Eastern" "Celto-Italic & Near Eastern" though. Celts and Italics were probably almost identical genetically, but they are pretty different ethnicities culturally/linguistically(although they are the two closest IE languages to eachother). Balkans should also probably have Illyrian, and I would put Palestine, Jordan, southern Syria and Iraq in the "Arabic" cluster. Egypt/Lybia should be with the rest of the North Africans. Most of Scotland should also be "Celto-Germanic" and no pure Germanic areas in England, East Germany should be Slavo-Germanic.

[J. Ketch]

Not really, but I've seen worse.

Don't understand why people make these things when any current national map, or even linguistic map, is more accurate.

[Defcon2]

As it puts on the map it is based on Y-DNA...

[Hektor12]

Tataric=Uralo-Slavo-Mongolic ??

OMEGALUL

[Blondie]

I can do better map, maybe i will.

[Ayetooey]

Serbia/Bosnia are not “Greco” at all.

[Davystayn]

Bit too generalised, also Scotland and Ireland have Norse/AS input so are not purely celtic, especially east/N Ireland and SE Scotland

[frankhammer]

This looks like a map based upon "native" peoples to the regions. How about a map based on the modern reality. Now that would be interesting.

[Asten]

Do Albanians have the same genetic than Iranian or Syrian ?

[reboun]

Tataric=Uralo-Slavo-Mongolic ??

OMEGALUL Aren't Tatars in that cluster? I don't know.


Serbia/Bosnia are not “Greco” at all. Why not?


This looks like a map based upon "native" peoples to the regions. How about a map based on the modern reality. Now that would be interesting. Yes, I guess it is based upon only the natives. Otherwise, Northwest Europe and Near East would be much more mixed, I guess.

[Ayetooey]

Aren't Tatars in that cluster? I don't know.

Why not?

Yes, I guess it is based upon only the natives. Otherwise, Northwest Europe and Near East would be much more mixed, I guess.

Because the pre Slavic admix of Bosniaks and Serbs is Illyrian in the former, and Illyrian-Thracian in the latter. Could be some Roman influence as well. Serbia/Bosnia don't even border Greece and there's no evidence of any significant mixing events between these groups. Some Bulgarians/North Macedonians have origin from North Greece, and these populations actually border each other so the term is perhaps a bit more accurate for them.

[Galactus]

Bullshit map.

[Sandis]

1. Baltic branch doesn't include only Slavo-Finnic. There are also Balto-Finnic. So the explanation is wrong.
2. Romania is not Greco-Slavic. There were no Greeks in Romania.

[Graham]

Bit too generalised, also Scotland and Ireland have Norse/AS input so are not purely celtic, especially east/N Ireland and SE Scotland

That map does cut off the South East and Borders, but yeah too generalised. The best proxy for ancient Gael within the modern populations at the moment is thought to be Argyll and Donegal.

[Nurzat]

I am ok with Greco-Slavic for me

[Zeno]

"Greco-Anatolian"

LOL, I get it with the Turks, but how are we closedly related to the rest of the Levant or especially with Iran or Iraq in order to be in the same group with them? How about you put only Greece, Cyprus, and Turkey "Greco-Anatolian", while the rest of the Levant as plain Anatolian or Middle Eastern? That would be accurate.

[Abriekman]

Poland is as Slavo-Germanic as Czech and Slovaks, why is it included into Slavic ?

[blueeyes]

Poland is as Slavo-Germanic as Czech and Slovaks, why is it included into Slavic ?

Poles are closer to East Slavs than to Austrans, Czechs, East Germans.

[Abriekman]

Poles are closer to East Slavs than to Austrans, Czechs, East Germans.

Depends which Poles, Central Poles are very close to other West Slavs. Even when we compare average Pole with Ukrainians, he will be modelled with additional 20% German-like ancestry

[XenophobicPrussian]

Poland is as Slavo-Germanic as Czech and Slovaks, why is it included into Slavic ?
No it isn't. The most Germanic region of Poland is like 12% Germanic, not counting Kashubians, meanwhile Czechia is something like 35% Germanic, Slovakia 20%.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Depends which Poles, Central Poles are very close to other West Slavs. Even when we compare average Pole with Ukrainians, he will be modelled with additional 20% German-like ancestry
Well "German-like" ancestry is irrelevant in this case as Germans themselves have a bunch of Slavic(something like 40% for East Germans). Germanic = Scandinavian, Poles don't go above 12-15%, up to 20%+ for Kashubians.

[Megadorian]

Serbia/Bosnia are not “Greco” at all.

You're half vlach half slavic hybrids so yes.

[Ayetooey]

You're half vlach half slavic hybrids so yes.

They were not Greek, but Illyrians and to a lesser extent Thracians. This is common knowledge.

[Abriekman]

Well "German-like" ancestry is irrelevant in this case as Germans themselves have a bunch of Slavic(something like 40% for East Germans). Germanic = Scandinavian, Poles don't go above 12-15%, up to 20%+ for Kashubians.

Are you sure?

Target: Polish_SE
Distance: 0.8756% / 0.00875578
99.4 Ukrainian
0.6 German

Target: Polish_E
Distance: 2.1622% / 0.02162185
100.0 Ukrainian

Target: Polish_S
Distance: 0.8851% / 0.00885132
78.4 Ukrainian
21.6 German

Target: Polish_CN
Distance: 1.0687% / 0.01068653
86.4 Ukrainian
13.6 German

Target: Polish_NE
Distance: 2.2524% / 0.02252413
100.0 Ukrainian

Target: Polish_W
Distance: 1.3656% / 0.01365603
68.0 Ukrainian
32.0 German

Target: Polish_Wielkopolska
Distance: 1.3230% / 0.01322977
80.6 Ukrainian
19.4 German

Target: Polish_N
Distance: 1.8851% / 0.01885116
87.6 Ukrainian
12.4 German


Between, this German is Western and Central German

[rero]

Are you sure?

Target: Polish_SE
Distance: 0.8756% / 0.00875578
99.4 Ukrainian
0.6 German

Target: Polish_E
Distance: 2.1622% / 0.02162185
100.0 Ukrainian

Target: Polish_S
Distance: 0.8851% / 0.00885132
78.4 Ukrainian
21.6 German

Target: Polish_CN
Distance: 1.0687% / 0.01068653
86.4 Ukrainian
13.6 German

Target: Polish_NE
Distance: 2.2524% / 0.02252413
100.0 Ukrainian

Target: Polish_W
Distance: 1.3656% / 0.01365603
68.0 Ukrainian
32.0 German

Target: Polish_Wielkopolska
Distance: 1.3230% / 0.01322977
80.6 Ukrainian
19.4 German

Target: Polish_N
Distance: 1.8851% / 0.01885116
87.6 Ukrainian
12.4 German


Between, this German is Western and Central German

What is Polish_W with double Germanic component of Wielkopolska? I mean what regions is this supposed to represent?

[Purple Panther]

It's not a horrid map. It's not perfect, though. Both Eastern England and Southeast England should be in the same category. It's wrong to place the Southeast with the Southwest since the latter is more "Celtic" than the former.

[Abriekman]

What is Polish_W with double Germanic component of Wielkopolska? I mean what regions is this supposed to represent?

These are quasi averages and individuals who were very western were included into it.

Btw all my Polish ancestors were from Ukraine and supposed to be very Slavic.
Look at what basically my fully Polish part from my father gets on G25

Target: Abriekman_scaled
Distance: 1.3956% / 0.01395648
48.4 Abriekman_mom_scaled
35.4 Ukrainian
16.2 Austrian

Austrian is quarter Slavic, but still...

[Sandis]

Well "German-like" ancestry is irrelevant in this case as Germans themselves have a bunch of Slavic(something like 40% for East Germans).

I think that Slavic ancestry for East Germany is overrated. Part of Slavs in East Germany were Slavicized Germans. My estimation would be about 25%.

[rero]

These are quasi averages and individuals who were very western were included into it.



So it does not represent any region but only some western-shifted individuals? I see.


Btw all my Polish ancestors were from Ukraine and supposed to be very Slavic.
Look at what basically my fully Polish part from my father gets on G25

Target: Abriekman_scaled
Distance: 1.3956% / 0.01395648
48.4 Abriekman_mom_scaled
35.4 Ukrainian
16.2 Austrian

Austrian is quarter Slavic, but still...

Wasn't part of W Ukraine (and SE Poland) part of Austria-Hungary? If they are from that part, that might in part explain this result.

[rero]

I think that Slavic ancestry for East Germany is overrated. Part of Slavs in East Germany were Slavicized Germans. My estimation would be about 25%.

I agree (in fact I have pointed this out myself a couple of times on this forum).

[XenophobicPrussian]

I think that Slavic ancestry for East Germany is overrated. Part of Slavs in East Germany were Slavicized Germans. My estimation would be about 25%.
You don't need to estimate anything when you have genetic tools. It's around 40%.

We have genomes from Medieval East Germany, they were literally Belarusian-Ukrainian like.

[XenophobicPrussian]

So it does not represent any region but only some western-shifted individuals? I see.



Wasn't part of W Ukraine (and SE Poland) part of Austria-Hungary? If they are from that part, that might in part explain this result.
No, it's unlikely Ukraine and Poland have more than low single digit Austrian admixture. These are irrelevant models based on moderns(modern models can be fairly accurate but you need the right populations). The "Austrian" is being picked for the Celtic(and yes, southern Poles have more Celtic admixture than they do Germanic), part Slavic, and any other more southern shifted ancestry(which SW Ukraine is full of, similar to Slovakia) in him.

[Abriekman]

No, it's unlikely Ukraine and Poland have more than low single digit Austrian admixture. These are irrelevant models based on moderns(modern models can be fairly accurate but you need the right populations). The "Austrian" is being picked for the Celtic(and yes, southern Poles have more Celtic admixture than they do Germanic), part Slavic, and any other more southern shifted ancestry(which SW Ukraine is full of, similar to Slovakia) in him.

Why can not you accept minor Celto-Germanic admixture in Poles? Maximum is not 15% and I showed it in previous models, maximum of Central German-like admixture in Poles is about 32%.

As I showed before I can even take myself as an example of this

Target: Abriekman_scaled
Distance: 1.3899% / 0.01389869
49.6 Abriekman_mom_scaled
39.2 Ukrainian
11.2 French_Alsace

Of course Poles are majority Slavs, but still even 15-25% of Western European admixture should do them Slavo-Germanic on this map in my opinion. Poles are not the same as Eastern Slavs.



Also I wanted to add, that we see many Lithuanian-like or East Slavic-like samples in both Poland and Germany in the 9th-12th centuries, many centuries after the Slavs came here from the East, which suggests there were not many local people left on these territories who could have been succesfully assimilated by the incoming Slavs. This suggests that the Western admixture in modern West Slavs comes mostly from the more recent migrations of settlers from the West (mostly the Germans)

[Ion Basescul]

1. Baltic branch doesn't include only Slavo-Finnic. There are also Balto-Finnic. So the explanation is wrong.
2. Romania is not Greco-Slavic. There were no Greeks in Romania.

Plenty of Greeks actually, but most have been assimilated historically due to also being Orthodox and mixing easily with Romanians.

Still, some managed to preserve their identity

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/64/Greci_Romania_%282002%29.PNG

[Gota_type_]

Completely stupid map. Anyone can do a map based on his own stupidities. "Near Eastern" for Spain?? Do they want to insult us? We fought 700 years against "Near Easterns" and his cousins of Magreb. And from a culturally point of view we are the OPPOSITE of what a Near Eastern is.

[Jana]

Croats aren't just Slavic.

We are mostly Slavic + large southern Euro and minor NW Euro component (in some this one is absent though)

[Jana]

Btw this map ignores heavy southern Euro input in Hungarians, they aren't just Slavo-Germanic like e.g. western Poles. Many Hungarians are more southern Euro than Germanic.

[Jana]

Edit: ah I see this map is about ydna and not autosomal...

[Megadorian]

They were not Greek, but Illyrians and to a lesser extent Thracians. This is common knowledge.

You're a hybrid mutt.

[Petalpusher]

Edit: ah I see this map is about ydna and not autosomal...

It would be good, at least legit, if it was based on ydna but it's not either

https://i.postimg.cc/Q8TCTg8X/content-a-map-of-europe-based-on-haplogroups-1.png

[rero]

Btw this map ignores heavy southern Euro input in Hungarians, they aren't just Slavo-Germanic like e.g. western Poles. Many Hungarians are more southern Euro than Germanic.

I'm really not sure about Western Poles as a whole because I have not seen enough data aside from individual results, maybe Czechs are a more clear example. About Hungarians and Croats I agree although I'm not an expert. This map is very inaccurate for some countries. And to be more precise one must always remember that across some borders in Europe there is considerable overlap (with a few exceptions) yet this map gives the impression that types mostly follow political borders (it makes a few exceptions but it's not enough to account for real overlap).

[Jana]

I'm really not sure about Western Poles as a whole because I have not seen enough data aside from individual results, maybe Czechs are a more clear example. About Hungarians and Croats I agree although I'm not an expert. This map is very inaccurate for some countries. And to be more precise one must always remember that across some borders in Europe there is considerable overlap (with a few exceptions) yet this map gives the impression that types mostly follow political borders (it makes a few exceptions but it's not enough to account for real overlap).

Agree. Didn't mention Czechs though because even they, Slovaks, south Poles and west Ukrainians have small Med input (Czechs are largerly Slavo-Germanic though, ofcourse)
Maybe best example for pure Germano-Slavs would be northeastern Germans from Pomerania, Brandenburg etc. Unlike central Euros got no recent med at all.

[Crn Volk]

Map is accurate for southern Balkans

[Ayetooey]

You're a hybrid mutt.

I'm not a Cretan.

[Blondie]

Agree. Didn't mention Czechs though because even they, Slovaks, south Poles and west Ukrainians have small Med input (Czechs are largerly Slavo-Germanic though, ofcourse)
Maybe best example for pure Germano-Slavs would be northeastern Germans from Pomerania, Brandenburg etc. Unlike central Euros got no recent med at all.

Genetically czechs are the most german non german ethnic group, followed by hungarians.

[JohnnyP]

"Greeks" are "Greco" - Slavs too.

[Eleonor]

What about a mtDNA map? :rolleyes:

[Megadorian]

"Greeks" are "Greco" - Slavs too.

Prove it.

[reboun]

Completely stupid map. Anyone can do a map based on his own stupidities. "Near Eastern" for Spain?? Do they want to insult us? We fought 700 years against "Near Easterns" and his cousins of Magreb. And from a culturally point of view we are the OPPOSITE of what a Near Eastern is.

Near Eastern here is Greco-Anatolian. I guess, Moors who invaded Spain were not genetically Greco-Anatolian at all. I think Near Eastern on the map is somehow the equivalent of East-Med component of some GEDmatch calculators.

[Gota_type_]

Near Eastern here is Greco-Anatolian. I guess, Moors who invaded Spain were not genetically Greco-Anatolian at all. I think Near Eastern on the map is somehow the equivalent of East-Med component of some GEDmatch calculators.

Funny, that ALL Europeans have East-Med component and also EEF yet we are the only ones that are put on that map as "Near Eastern".

[sioned]

So, South-Tyrol is Celtic-Near Eastern? OMG!!!! As if the Austrian-Italian border is a genetic border...LOL
I had a good laugh, atleast thank you for that :)

[Grace O'Malley]

Map ignores Iceland's proven Irish/Scots input. I think also if honest Ireland, Scotland and Wales should be Celto-Germanic. Anyway it's obviously not really accurate.

[JamesBond007]

Map ignores Iceland's proven Irish/Scots input. I think also if honest Ireland, Scotland and Wales should be Celto-Germanic. Anyway it's obviously not really accurate.

Yeah, I am not digging how he split the Central Dutch region into Germanic and Celto-Germanic regions it is probably more homogenous than that given that is where G25 puts me. I can see making Northern Netherlands as seperate.

[JamesBond007]

Map ignores Iceland's proven Irish/Scots input. I think also if honest Ireland, Scotland and Wales should be Celto-Germanic. Anyway it's obviously not really accurate.

Right, and if we are honest Cornwall is a bit more Germanic than Celto-Germanic Wales. England should be Germano-Celtic and Wales and Scotland Celto-Germanic it seems to me.

[Grace O'Malley]

Right, and if we are honest Cornwall is a bit more Germanic than Celto-Germanic Wales. England should be Germano-Celtic and Wales and Scotland Celto-Germanic it seems to me.

It's also a bit more southern shifted genetically. The same with south-east England. There are obviously a few missing pieces in the genetic puzzle. If people want to be really honest the Celtic Fringe of the Isles is most probably not very similar to the Celts from the Continent. Not that this hasn't been known for a long time.

[JamesBond007]

It's also a bit more southern shifted genetically. The same with south-east England. There are obviously a few missing pieces in the genetic puzzle. If people want to be really honest the Celtic Fringe of the Isles is most probably not very similar to the Celts from the Continent. Not that this hasn't been known for a long time.

Right, but even the insular 'Celts' do not cluster Orcadians and Cornish genetics do not cluster despite both having some Germanic input. Celtic seems to be just a culture. Cornish cluster closer to other Southern English groups.

[Grace O'Malley]

Right, but even the insular 'Celts' do not cluster Orcadians and Cornish genetics do not cluster despite both having some Germanic input. Celtic seems to be just a culture. Cornish cluster closer to other Southern English groups.

Yes this was noted as far back as the People of the British Isles study. There is no Celtic genetic cluster.

[Coastal Elite]

Culture matters more than clusters.

[JamesBond007]

Culture matters more than clusters.

If you take nigerians and replace the population of France with them and put the nigerians in French culture re-education camps how many generations will it take for France to descend into a third world country ?

[Coastal Elite]

If you take nigerians and replace the population of France with them and put the nigerians in French culture re-education camps how many generations will it take for France to descend into a third world country ?

I'm speaking within the context of Europe. For example, the Celtics cultures in the British Isles should be recognized apart from Anglo-Saxon Germanic wannabes.

[Grace O'Malley]

I'm speaking within the context of Europe. For example, the Celtics cultures in the British Isles should be recognized apart from Anglo-Saxon Germanic wannabes.

They are recognised but I'm speaking in a genetic context. Also I would use Gaelic for Ireland instead of Celtic because it isn't pan-Celtic. Although if you wanted to be pedantic Ireland has been influenced by Vikings, Normans and the island to the right. :)

[JamesBond007]

I'm speaking within the context of Europe. For example, the Celtics cultures in the British Isles should be recognized apart from Anglo-Saxon Germanic wannabes.

Who are wannabes ?

Distance to: Kevin_scaled
0.02772056 West_European:England_Saxon_I0777
0.02932190 West_European:England_Saxon_I0769
0.02996588 West_European:England_Saxon_I0161
0.03050188 West_European:England_Saxon_I0159
0.03401761 West_European:England_Saxon_I0774
0.03412486 West_European:DEU_MA_ALH_1
0.03689108 West_European:England_Saxon_I0157
0.03882568 West_European:England_Saxon_I0773
0.04944617 West_European:DEU_MA_AED_106
0.05011800 West_European:DEU_MA_ALH_3
0.05277013 West_European:DEU_MA_STR_316
0.05277044 West_European:DEU_MA_ALH_10
0.05585750 West_European:DEU_MA_NW_255
0.05656324 East_European:UKR_Chernyakhiv_Shyshaky_MJ37
0.05788781 West_European:DEU_MA_AED_249
0.06043520 East_European:UKR_Chernyakhiv_Legedzine_MJ19
0.06091204 West_European:DEU_MA_STR_486
0.06529879 East_European:CZE_Early_Slav_RISE569
0.08393452 Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10852
0.08542827 East_European:RUS_Sunghir_MA_Sunghir6
0.08573792 Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10895
0.09339015 Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10892
0.09409294 Baltic:Baltic_EST_MA_IIa_1
0.09625705 Baltic:Baltic_EST_MA_IIf_1
0.10001019 Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10853


Distance to: Kevin_scaled
0.02062315 79.60% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 20.40% Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10852
0.02084438 87.00% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 13.00% Southeast_European:IND_Roopkund_B_I3405
0.02129366 86.40% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 13.60% South_European:ITA_Collegno_MA_CL121
0.02148887 86.60% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 13.40% South_European:ITA_Rome_MA_RMPR57
0.02151438 87.60% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 12.40% Southeast_European:IND_Roopkund_B_I3345
0.02158751 88.80% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 11.20% Southeast_European:Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2_I821 5
0.02159453 85.80% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 14.20% South_European:ITA_Rome_MA_RMPR1283
0.02160127 85.00% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 15.00% Southeast_European:IND_Roopkund_B_I3404
0.02162862 87.60% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 12.40% South_European:ITA_Rome_MA_RMPR56
0.02165440 87.80% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 12.20% Southeast_European:IND_Roopkund_B_I3403
0.02167816 85.80% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 14.20% South_European:ITA_Rome_MA_RMPR1285
0.02169301 88.00% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 12.00% Southeast_European:IND_Roopkund_B_I2869
0.02170850 80.80% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 19.20% Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10895
0.02179319 27.40% East_European:UKR_Chernyakhiv_Shyshaky_MJ37 + 72.60% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769
0.02191980 87.20% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 12.80% South_European:ITA_Rome_MA_RMPR58
0.02200894 87.20% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 12.80% South_European:ITA_Rome_MA_RMPR59
0.02212541 83.60% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 16.40% Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10853
0.02224678 90.20% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 9.80% Southeast_European:Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2_I820 8
0.02231093 86.40% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 13.60% South_European:ITA_Rome_MA_RMPR60
0.02270531 88.20% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 11.80% Southeast_European:IND_Roopkund_B_I3348
0.02303186 83.20% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 16.80% Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10892
0.02355030 86.60% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 13.40% Southeast_European:IND_Roopkund_B_I6936
0.02373369 45.40% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 54.60% West_European:England_Saxon_I0777
0.02430782 92.00% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769 + 8.00% Anatolian:Ottoman_MA2196
0.02437456 9.20% North_Caucasus:RUS_Alan_MA_DA160 + 90.80% West_European:England_Saxon_I0769

[JamesBond007]

I'm speaking within the context of Europe. For example, the Celtics cultures in the British Isles should be recognized apart from Anglo-Saxon Germanic wannabes.

Wannabe what bitch ?! Germanics uber alles !


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nuzj2xJ22Ws

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/EKEHNE/flag-burning-concept-of-war-or-crisis-ivory-coast-EKEHNE.jpg

Distance to: Kevin_scaled
0.02772056 West_European:England_Saxon_I0777
0.02932190 West_European:England_Saxon_I0769
0.02996588 West_European:England_Saxon_I0161
0.03050188 West_European:England_Saxon_I0159
0.03401761 West_European:England_Saxon_I0774
0.03412486 West_European:DEU_MA_ALH_1
0.03689108 West_European:England_Saxon_I0157
0.03882568 West_European:England_Saxon_I0773
0.04944617 West_European:DEU_MA_AED_106
0.05011800 West_European:DEU_MA_ALH_3
0.05277013 West_European:DEU_MA_STR_316
0.05277044 West_European:DEU_MA_ALH_10
0.05585750 West_European:DEU_MA_NW_255
0.05656324 East_European:UKR_Chernyakhiv_Shyshaky_MJ37
0.05788781 West_European:DEU_MA_AED_249
0.06043520 East_European:UKR_Chernyakhiv_Legedzine_MJ19
0.06091204 West_European:DEU_MA_STR_486
0.06529879 East_European:CZE_Early_Slav_RISE569
0.08393452 Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10852
0.08542827 East_European:RUS_Sunghir_MA_Sunghir6
0.08573792 Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10895
0.09339015 Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10892
0.09409294 Baltic:Baltic_EST_MA_IIa_1
0.09625705 Baltic:Baltic_EST_MA_IIf_1
0.10001019 Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10853

[Coastal Elite]

They are recognised but I'm speaking in a genetic context. Also I would use Gaelic for Ireland instead of Celtic because it isn't pan-Celtic. Although if you wanted to be pedantic Ireland has been influenced by Vikings, Normans and the island to the right. :)

I don't disagree from a genetic standpoint. Munster Irish most likely have both Viking and Norman influence but I'm not sure one should feel a kinship to Scandinavians or Germanics.

[Coastal Elite]

Wannabe what bitch ?! Germanics uber alles !


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nuzj2xJ22Ws

https://c8.alamy.com/comp/EKEHNE/flag-burning-concept-of-war-or-crisis-ivory-coast-EKEHNE.jpg

Distance to: Kevin_scaled
0.02772056 West_European:England_Saxon_I0777
0.02932190 West_European:England_Saxon_I0769
0.02996588 West_European:England_Saxon_I0161
0.03050188 West_European:England_Saxon_I0159
0.03401761 West_European:England_Saxon_I0774
0.03412486 West_European:DEU_MA_ALH_1
0.03689108 West_European:England_Saxon_I0157
0.03882568 West_European:England_Saxon_I0773
0.04944617 West_European:DEU_MA_AED_106
0.05011800 West_European:DEU_MA_ALH_3
0.05277013 West_European:DEU_MA_STR_316
0.05277044 West_European:DEU_MA_ALH_10
0.05585750 West_European:DEU_MA_NW_255
0.05656324 East_European:UKR_Chernyakhiv_Shyshaky_MJ37
0.05788781 West_European:DEU_MA_AED_249
0.06043520 East_European:UKR_Chernyakhiv_Legedzine_MJ19
0.06091204 West_European:DEU_MA_STR_486
0.06529879 East_European:CZE_Early_Slav_RISE569
0.08393452 Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10852
0.08542827 East_European:RUS_Sunghir_MA_Sunghir6
0.08573792 Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10895
0.09339015 Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10892
0.09409294 Baltic:Baltic_EST_MA_IIa_1
0.09625705 Baltic:Baltic_EST_MA_IIf_1
0.10001019 Southwest_European:Iberia_Northeast_c.8-12CE_I10853

I never understood why the English were so excited about their Kraut invaders. Have you ever heard how much more beautiful the old Welsh language is compared to Anglo-Saxon trash words?

[Ayetooey]

I never understood why the English were so excited about their Kraut invaders. Have you ever heard how much more beautiful the old Welsh language is than Anglo-Saxon trash words?

Jamesbond is an American of Irish and German ancestry with a few screws missing anyway he doesn’t speak for England very well. Most people here do not really identify with Germanic countries, but of course feel closest to fellow Brits and Irish. English having some super Germanic identity in 2021 is an apricity myth. Never heard anyone say they feel close to a German or Dane over a Welsh or Irishman.

And I agree it’s senseless for Irish to identify with their minor Viking ancestry in a cultural sense. That admix probably didn’t come with consent and doesn’t change the Gaelic culture which existed.

[Grace O'Malley]

I don't disagree from a genetic standpoint. Munster Irish most likely have both Viking and Norman influence but I'm not sure one should feel a kinship to Scandinavians or Germanics.

Discussing genetics and influences doesn't mean anyone feels a kinship. Over the years I've had completely different theories on the Irish for example. I've an open mind on the topic although I think more is known now than in the past. It still wouldn't change your culture, history or identity if you found out that Ireland isn't that Celtic genetically for example or you have an Englishman in the family woodpile. :) I'm not sure if my great Grandmother's Leland surname is of English or Scots origin? I've also stated on here that the Insular Celts were never united and they didn't help each other. Who supported Ireland with their Rugby World Cup bid? The English, not the Scots or Welsh. :) In fact English Rugby has always been very supportive of the Irish if you look at the history. Not that I take all this to heart mind you? :) These things are not black and white. I'd rather just stick to the facts if we have them or else have interesting discussions. :thumb001:

[Coastal Elite]

Discussing genetics and influences doesn't mean anyone feels a kinship. Over the years I've had completely different theories on the Irish for example. I've an open mind on the topic although I think more is known now than in the past. It still wouldn't change your culture, history or identity if you found out that Ireland isn't that Celtic genetically for example or you have an Englishman in the family woodpile. :) I'm not sure if my great Grandmother's Leland surname is of English or Scots origin? I've also stated on here that the Insular Celts were never united and they didn't help each other. Who supported Ireland with their Rugby World Cup bid? The English, not the Scots or Welsh. :) In fact English Rugby has always been very supportive of the Irish if you look at the history. Not that I take all this to heart mind you? :) These things are not black and white. I'd rather just stick to the facts if we have them or else have interesting discussions. :thumb001:

An Englishman in the family woodpile! God forbid :p I have an English great, great grandma and it haunts me. I like the friendly rivalry with the Brits but it's hard for me to stomach too much genuflecting to them. I do appreciate their influence on American culture.

[J. Ketch]

Let's not BS, it's always divided for some reason but the British Isles should be the same colour on Europe-wide maps like this. Large genetic overlap + same language & similar culture. It's not 1500.

[Grace O'Malley]

An Englishman in the family woodpile! God forbid :p I have an English great, great grandma and it haunts me. I like the friendly rivalry with the Brits and it's hard for me to stomach too much genuflecting to Brits but I do appreciate their influence on American culture.

I don't think now there is any real animosity between the Irish and the English. There are plenty of English in Ireland now and of course there has always been loads of Irish in Britain. Some of the best comedy collaborations have been with the Irish and English. We have a similar taste in humour. These classics come to mind.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zkL91LzCMc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy_BKKnHgas


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lllUSIUJE4M

[Coastal Elite]

I don't think now there is any real animosity between the Irish and the English. There are plenty of English in Ireland now and of course there has always been loads of Irish in Britain. Some of the best comedy collaborations have been with the Irish and English. We have a similar taste in humour. These classics come to mind.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zkL91LzCMc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qy_BKKnHgas


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lllUSIUJE4M

Not much animosity in the modern era, more like good natured ribbing. I admit to liking British cheddar, don't let that get out. I think American humor, including my own humor, is hugely influenced by British/Irish humor with a mix of Jewish humor.

[Grace O'Malley]

Not much animosity in the modern era, more like good natured ribbing. I admit to liking British cheddar, don't let that get out. I think American humor, including my own humor, is hugely influenced by British/Irish humor with a mix of Jewish humor.

“The number of Jews and Irish denotes how funny your town is gonna be.”

Billy Connolly

[Coastal Elite]

“The number of Jews and Irish denotes how funny your town is gonna be.”

Billy Connolly

I think SNL in some ways represented that mix. Conan O'Brien was one of a number of Irish-American writers on that show. The producer Lorne Michaels wanted to tap into "Catholic school humor" aka Irish American culture. Off topic, my apologies.

[Grace O'Malley]

I think SNL in some ways represented that mix. Conan O'Brien was one of a number of Irish-American writers on that show. The producer Lorne Michaels wanted to tap into "Catholic school humor" aka Irish American culture. Off topic, my apologies.

I didn't know Irish were known for marrying their cousins in the US? Here in Australia we give the Tasmanians credit for that. :)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1_glHa8F7fA&list=PLS_gQd8UB-hIFtC07Hy4Xxfcw2FdrUWgB

[J. Ketch]

I don't think now there is any real animosity between the Irish and the English. There are plenty of English in Ireland now and of course there has always been loads of Irish in Britain.

Probably nearly half of English/British people have some recent Irish ancestry nowadays, and a similar amount of Irish would have English ancestry, but further back before records. My immediate Irish family lived in England and married English, as well as my dad.

Regardless of politics, nationalism, stereotypes and ignorant American provocateurs, they are inextricably tied. It's usually Americans who push the same old shit anyway.

[Graham]

I don't think now there is any real animosity between the Irish and the English. There are plenty of English in Ireland now and of course there has always been loads of Irish in Britain. Some of the best comedy collaborations have been with the Irish and English. We have a similar taste in humour. These classics come to mind.


Always surprises me how many English where I am think of Ireland as foreign and know so little since I've been here, to be honest. Have literally had to say there isn't much difference.

Creoda and yourself will have different expericance in Australia were it is all mixed.


England, Scotland, Wales & Ireland are a group in the world or European context, poltical or non political. Like Sweden, Denmark and Norway are.

[Grace O'Malley]

Always surprises me how many English where I am think of Ireland as foreign and know so little since I've been here, to be honest. Have literally had to say there isn't much difference.

Creoda and yourself will have different expericance in Australia were it is all mixed.


England, Scotland, Wales & Ireland are a group in the world or European context, poltical or non political. Like Sweden, Denmark and Norway are.

I'm surprised so many English know very little of their history. They really don't. :)

[Coastal Elite]

Probably nearly half of English/British people have some recent Irish ancestry nowadays, and a similar amount of Irish would have English ancestry, but further back before records. My immediate Irish family lived in England and married English, as well as my dad.

Regardless of politics, nationalism, stereotypes and ignorant American provocateurs, they are inextricably tied. It's usually Americans who push the same old shit anyway.

Who are these American provocateurs? Please tell me. Provide examples.

[Grace O'Malley]

Who are these American provocateurs? Please tell me. Provide examples.

Not really relevant to your question but most Irish as in Irish in Ireland have strong connections to Britain. Many have family living in Britain and my own family have married into English families going back a few generations now. In the past Irish went to Britain but there is a trend now for English, Scots etc to go to Ireland. I have immediate family who are of half English/half Irish that now live in Ireland even though they were born and educated in England. I have a relative from Wales whose Great Grandfather was my Great Grandfather's brother and this is from MyHeritage. My father was in the RAF. I know history very well and I think people should be able to discuss these topics calmly. Not everyone can though but there are undoubtedly long and linked connections between Britain and Ireland. Only people that are not well educated or have some biases would deny it.

Anyway you obviously aren't one of these Americans that Creoda is alluding to. :)

[Coastal Elite]

Americans are fully taking the blame for any Irish - UK animosity. It's on us. We started it online back in the 90s

[Grace O'Malley]

Americans are fully taking the blame for any Irish - UK animosity. It's on us. We started it online back in the 90s

On a serious note I very much appreciate Americans like Bill Clinton and Joe Biden as far as their support for Ireland. I've no doubt that the Good Friday Agreement would not have happened without the American support.

[Coastal Elite]

Not really relevant to your question but most Irish as in Irish in Ireland have strong connections to Britain. Many have family living in Britain and my own family have married into English families going back a few generations now. In the past Irish went to Britain but there is a trend now for English, Scots etc to go to Ireland. I have immediate family who are of half English/half Irish that now live in Ireland even though they were born and educated in England. I have a relative from Wales whose Great Grandfather was my Great Grandfather's brother and this is from MyHeritage. My father was in the RAF. I know history very well and I think people should be able to discuss these topics calmly. Not everyone can though but there are undoubtedly long and linked connections between Britain and Ireland. Only people that are not well educated or have some biases would deny it.

Anyway you obviously aren't one of these Americans that Creoda is alluding to. :)

I was crushed, like JFK looking downward.

[J. Ketch]

Who are these American provocateurs? Please tell me. Provide examples.
Don't have to go far, both you and JB007 on have gotten into it in this thread. Richmondbread often has choice things to say on the subject too.

[Coastal Elite]

Don't have to go far, both you and JB007 on have gotten into it in this thread. Richmondbread often has choice things to say on the subject too.

What is our crime? I may have joked around.

[Graham]

I'm surprised so many English know very little of their history. They really don't. :)

A lot of it is ww1, ww2 and the industrial era. The rest is dark ages. :lol:

Most of us aren't perfect in our histories either.

[Grace O'Malley]

A lot of it is ww1, ww2 and the industrial era. The rest is dark ages. :lol:

Most of us aren't perfect in our histories either.

A lot of them seem to know nothing about Northern Ireland and how that came about? Northern Ireland is part of the UK and is run from Britain. They really should know more about their own backyard. :)

[Ayetooey]

A lot of them seem to know nothing about Northern Ireland and how that came about? Northern Ireland is part of the UK and is run from Britain. They really should know more about their own backyard. :)

Most people here know nothing about NI indeed. Many don’t even realise it’s part of the UK.

[Graham]

A lot of them seem to know nothing about Northern Ireland and how that came about? Northern Ireland is part of the UK and is run from Britain. They really should know more about their own backyard. :)

Don't want to speak for the English much more (probably sick of my posts) but most don't care if Ireland was United. Where I'm from, West Lothian. You get some of the Loyalist types who are sympathetic to Northern Ireland amongst the other factions.

[Grace O'Malley]

Don't want to speak for the English much more (probably sick of my posts) but most don't care if Ireland was United. Where I'm from, West Lothian. You get some of the Loyalist types who are sympathetic to Northern Ireland amongst the other factions.

Yes I know. They would be quite happy if there was a United Ireland. A lot of English are a bit annoyed with the Scots these days also have you noticed? :) Anyway a United Ireland is a long way down the road but the fact is that Northern Ireland shares a land border with the rest of Ireland which appeared to escape the Brexit voters. Not a lot of thought was put into the situation. Anyway let's not go there. :) It is interesting though the lack of knowledge and awareness. Of course this is only a certain section of the English. A bit like the English that have second homes in Spain and France and voted for Brexit. :rolleyes:;)

[Coastal Elite]

I think I've grown during the course of the this thread. How about you guys?

[noricum]

Looking at Austria it's a bit odd that Tirol is Celto-Germanic when for the most part it was settled by Rhaetians, never by Celts. South Tirol (same people) is Celtic+Near Eastern like the rest of Italy. Wow.
CZ, SK and HU are Slavo- Germanic, so no Celts, although they settled there, but Slovenes are pure Slavs without any other Celto-Germanic and Romanic influence. Strongly Slavic influenced Carinthia and Styria ares in Celto-Germanic Blue and a tiny bit or Carinthia is pure Slavic orange. Thats a grossly simplified linguistic map, yet not a Ethno Genetic map as it states.

[Grace O'Malley]

I think I've grown during the course of the this thread. How about you guys?

https://memegenerator.net/img/instances/76514061/i-am-here-to-educate-you.jpg

[Megadorian]

The Irish are completely dwarved by the Anglo-American ethnos, hell even Krauts are irrelevant compared to them.

[Grace O'Malley]

The Irish are completely dwarved by the Anglo-American ethnos, hell even Krauts are irrelevant compared to them.

Is that relevant? I quite like coming from an ethnicity that hasn't too much animosity worldwide. We all don't want to be dominant powers. :) I'm serious as well. There is advantages.

[Grace O'Malley]

The Irish are completely dwarved by the Anglo-American ethnos, hell even Krauts are irrelevant compared to them.

This is quite an interesting discussion if people want to discuss but look at something like St Patrick's Day worldwide? Would St George's Day have the same mass appeal? Discuss or not? It is an interesting topic.

[Graham]

Yes I know. They would be quite happy if there was a United Ireland. A lot of English are a bit annoyed with the Scots these days also have you noticed? :)

Haven't noticed it.

The English press are irritating. That political village is something different to England.

For example Prince Philip's death. BBC was going all out North Korea on it. When in truth most people were just getting on with life.

[Grace O'Malley]

Haven't noticed it.

The English press are irritating. That political village is something different to England.

For example Prince Philip's death. BBC was going all out North Korea on it. When in truth most people were just getting on with life.

In comments sections. They might not be forthcoming in person though.

[Purple Panther]

Jamesbond is an American of Irish and German ancestry with a few screws missing anyway he doesn’t speak for England very well. Most people here do not really identify with Germanic countries, but of course feel closest to fellow Brits and Irish. English having some super Germanic identity in 2021 is an apricity myth. Never heard anyone say they feel close to a German or Dane over a Welsh or Irishman.

And I agree it’s senseless for Irish to identify with their minor Viking ancestry in a cultural sense. That admix probably didn’t come with consent and doesn’t change the Gaelic culture which existed.

I think that the brother is pulling a "Borat". No one can be that extra. Some of his posts sound like parodies or satires. He might be having a good laugh at our expense when we take him seriously.

[Purple Panther]

Who are these American provocateurs? Please tell me. Provide examples.

You know how it is. They complain that we stereotype them right before they stereotype us.

[Purple Panther]

On a serious note I very much appreciate Americans like Bill Clinton and Joe Biden as far as their support for Ireland. I've no doubt that the Good Friday Agreement would not have happened without the American support.

Slow Joe is destroying the USA, and I can't stand the sight of his masked mug. Sadly, we both have roots in County Laois, and if he visits them, they're more than welcome to keep him.

[Purple Panther]

I think SNL in some ways represented that mix. Conan O'Brien was one of a number of Irish-American writers on that show. The producer Lorne Michaels wanted to tap into "Catholic school humor" aka Irish American culture. Off topic, my apologies.

I always liked Conan, but that show went down the proverbial tubes. We lost the best Irish-American comedian when George Carlin passed. I would love to hear his jokes and his takes on cancel culture and censors. He belongs on the Mount Rushmore of Irish-American comedians with Jackie Gleason, Buster Keaton, and Eddie Murphy.

[Purple Panther]

I always liked Conan, but that show went down the proverbial tubes. We lost the best Irish-American comedian when George Carlin passed. I would love to hear his jokes and his takes on cancel culture and censors. He belongs on the Mount Rushmore of Irish-American comedians with Jackie Gleason, Buster Keaton, and Eddie Murphy.

By the way, I was referring to "Saturday Night Live", not O'Brien's show. It's the only decent one left in late night.

[J. Ketch]

You know how it is. They complain that we stereotype them right before they stereotype us.
Didn't complain, just an observation. But I'll admit that years of encountering ignorant or negative portrayals from Americans about English and Irish (joking or otherwise) across platforms, has cooled my feeling towards them.

[J. Ketch]

I always liked Conan, but that show went down the proverbial tubes. We lost the best Irish-American comedian when George Carlin passed. I would love to hear his jokes and his takes on cancel culture and censors. He belongs on the Mount Rushmore of Irish-American comedians with Jackie Gleason, Buster Keaton, and Eddie Murphy.
Eddie Murphy has to be my favourite Irish-American. I believe his family hails from County Tyrone.

[Davystayn]

I'm speaking within the context of Europe. For example, the Celtics cultures in the British Isles should be recognized apart from Anglo-Saxon Germanic wannabes.

Celtic cultures are extremely strong and if anything have been strengthened in recent years, in sport but particularly music, movies etc, it seems to emphasise the folk culture in particular.

If anything this is to the detriment of English culture as such, which has much of its folk music people would assume was Scots or Irish due to the association of that music as celtic music or whatever.

Kind Many traditions and mythos are ignored really, this is partly due to the Norman conquest, which provided the Nitros Oxide injection turning England into a slavering power hungry aggressor, particularly from the perspective of the celtic nations.

As a result English culture is tied up with British empire building, foreign policy aggression, crap food, industrial revolution and football hooligans.

The old mythos stuff doesn't really come into it apart from stuff popping out occasionally like recitals of Beowulf, Robin Hood, May Day celebrations, village fetes etc.

King Arthur, of course doesn't count, as he was a Welsh hero fighting the Saxons, his story of uniting the whole island was promoted by the Norman Kings, Edward 1st was a particular fan.

All the traditional folk culture is left to the celtic nations, promoted heavily with a strong impact on mainstream culture, so I'd say celtic cultures are much stronger anyway. Nothing wrong with that either.

[Davystayn]

Discussing genetics and influences doesn't mean anyone feels a kinship. Over the years I've had completely different theories on the Irish for example. I've an open mind on the topic although I think more is known now than in the past. It still wouldn't change your culture, history or identity if you found yout that Ireland isn't that Celtic genetically for eyxample or you have an Englishman in the family woodpile. :) I'm not sure if my great Grandmother's Leland surname is of English or Scots origin? I've also stated on here that the Insular Celts were never united and they didn't help each other. Who supported Ireland with their Rugby World Cup bid? The English, not the Scots or Welsh. :) In fact English Rugby has always been very supportive of the Irish if you look at the history. Not that I take all this to heart mind you? :) These things are not black and white. I'd rather just stick to the facts if we have them or else have interesting discussions. :thumb001:

Another myth is the shared cohesiveness of the celtic nations. Before the arrival of migrants from the continent after the romans they were still fighting each other.

There were seperated kingdoms in what is now Ireland and Wales and Ireland and Wales often fought and had much rivalry between rulers. Even now the Ireland Wales rugby games have descended into fisticuffs with bad blood. You don't get this with Ireland v Scotland or Scotland v Wales games as much.

In the middle ages the Welsh Longbowman were the best so often recruited by Anglo Norman armies in their escapades. In the wars against France Welsh Longbowman fought against Scots in French army in occasion. Robert The Bruce himself invaded Ireland.

The idea of a celtic unity really is more of a modern invention

[sioned]

Scotland itself isnt fully Celtic either...Southern Scotland, Orkney and Shetland are Germanic.

[Coastal Elite]

You know how it is. They complain that we stereotype them right before they stereotype us.

Plus most Americans have overwhelmingly positive opinions of the UK and Ireland when comes down to it. We joke about them but it doesn't amount to more than ribbing. Americans make fun of everyone in the great Irish-American comic style of Eddie Murphy or Eddie Griffin.

[Purple Panther]

Didn't complain, just an observation. But I'll admit that years of encountering ignorant or negative portrayals from Americans about English and Irish (joking or otherwise) across platforms, has cooled my feeling towards them.

I get that. It's a vicious cycle because Americans do that too when Americans are repeatedly attacked. I don't see many anti-English threads and anti-Irish threads here, though. It seems like we're the main targets.

[Purple Panther]

Eddie Murphy has to be my favourite Irish-American. I believe his family hails from County Tyrone.

He's Black Irish, just like forum fave Colin Farrell. They descend from shipwrecked Spanish sailors from the 1500s. ;-)

[J. Ketch]

I get that. It's a vicious cycle because Americans do that too when Americans are repeatedly attacked. I don't see many anti-English threads and anti-Irish threads here, though. It seems like we're the main targets.
I guess one tends to notice most what concerns them. Anyway, I still like Americans generally and feel much closer to them than to continental Europeans, obviously. Don't care for most of the boring, typical stereotypes about them.

Australians almost never get negative stereotypes from foreigners, that comes with the territory of being irrelevant :bored:

[Purple Panther]

I guess one tends to notice most what concerns them. Anyway, I still like Americans generally and feel much closer to them than to continental Europeans, obviously. Don't care for most of the boring, typical stereotypes about them.

Australians almost never get negative stereotypes from foreigners, that comes with the territory of being irrelevant :bored:

Some of my best friends are Austrian. Vienna is quite beautiful.

[Sandis]

Here's my version of the European genetic map based on Y-DNA.
It's not yet complete. For some clusters the borders are approximate. Someone always won't be satisfied with inclusion in a particular cluster.
Mt-DNA map will be completely different.

https://i.ibb.co/THZJcPg/ydna-draft5.jpg

[rero]

Here's my version of the European genetic map based on Y-DNA.
It's not yet complete. For some clusters the borders are approximate. Someone always won't be satisfied with inclusion in a particular cluster.
Mt-DNA map will be completely different.


Interesting. Do you have a label for the different colours? I might give my opinion later, I have to analyze it.

[Sandis]

Interesting. Do you have a label for the different colours? I might give my opinion later, I have to analyze it.

Some clusters don't yet have appropriate names. Could be as follows:
Celtic (dark green), Celto-Germanic (emerald green), Celto-Iberian (lime green), Western Germanic (orange), Northern Germanic (light yellow), Finno-Germanic (light blue), Balto-Uralic (light purple), Slavic (salmon), Slavo-Germanic (beige), Slavo-Thraco-Illyrian or simply Balkan (dark yellow), Aegean (light brown), Berbero-Semitic (dark red), Near Eastern (dark brown), North Caucasian (olive green), Uralo-Altaic (dark purple)

Probably i need to create separate cluster for Sardinians.

[Mantuano]

Here's my version of the European genetic map based on Y-DNA.
It's not yet complete. For some clusters the borders are approximate. Someone always won't be satisfied with inclusion in a particular cluster.
Mt-DNA map will be completely different.

https://i.ibb.co/THZJcPg/ydna-draft5.jpg

Why is Northern Ireland different from Rep. of Ireland? Also Northern Italy (pred. R-U152) shouldn't have the same colour of Spain and Portugal (pred. R-DF27), in my humble opinion.

[Sandis]

Why is Northern Ireland different from Rep. of Ireland? Also Northern Italy (pred. R-U152) shouldn't have the same colour of Spain and Portugal (pred. R-DF27), in my humble opinion.

If we don't count English immigrants, then Northern Ireland is like Ireland. It depends on how old migrations we count.
Yeah, there can be Italo-Celtic cluster for Northern Italy.

[helg]

Here's my version of the European genetic map based on Y-DNA.
It's not yet complete. For some clusters the borders are approximate. Someone always won't be satisfied with inclusion in a particular cluster.
Mt-DNA map will be completely different.

https://i.ibb.co/THZJcPg/ydna-draft5.jpg

More accurate "Slavic" area. Based on Oleg Balanovsky maps.
https://d.radikal.ru/d14/2105/28/3559e08b414b.jpg

[Sandis]

More accurate "Slavic" area. Based on Oleg Balanovsky maps.


I selected Crimean Tatars and Circassians as indigenous inhabitants for Crimea and Krasnodar Krai (with Adygea enclave) respectively, although there were some more indigenous in the past.
I don't have a lot of data for oblasts near Moscow, but since this area was originally Baltic and Finnic, i merged it with Balto-Uralic cluster, although later migrations definitely changed genetic structure, especially in the biggest cities like Moscow and Nizhny Novgorod.

[Roy]

I guess one tends to notice most what concerns them. Anyway, I still like Americans generally and feel much closer to them than to continental Europeans, obviously. Don't care for most of the boring, typical stereotypes about them.

Australians almost never get negative stereotypes from foreigners, that comes with the territory of being irrelevant :bored:


Are there any really negative stereotypes about Australians though? Sure there is a lot of about Americans, some of them are even correct most of the time.

[Jaromir]

I've found this map on Pinterest and it seems somehow accurate to me. Do you also think it is accurate?
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/b2/15/d8/b215d85fc0b36756a177ad0a69376a13.jpg

Estonia is more Finno-Germanic and zero percent... how to say... "Iberian" of course

edit: adding map
https://i.postimg.cc/3NVyFXWM/cccc.jpg

[J. Ketch]

Are there any really negative stereotypes about Australians though? Sure there is a lot of about Americans, some of them are even correct most of the time.
A lot of leftists call Aussies racist, but then they do that for most White countries. The British have some mildly negative stereotypes about Australians as being uncultured/uncouth and basic, with a simple sense of humour lacking wit, which is kind of true, but that is usually good-natured ribbing similar to that which exists between different British regions/nations. It goes back to the convict and lower-class origins. Also the traditional diet here is very basic and has a poor reputation among ethnics as being bland, the same as the British diet.

Australian tourists don't have a great reputation in Bali/SE Asia, they act similar to British tourists in Europe and are known for drug-smuggling, ie Schapelle Corby. But like the Euros, the Asians are happy to take our money, so fuck 'em. Some Americans probably consider Australians to be cheap because we don't tip, I've heard it said in the US that Australian tourists are the worst tippers in the world. Personally I think the whole tipping obligation there is retarded, so I don't sympathise.

There are more internal negative stereotypes than among foreigners.

[Sandis]

Estonia is more Finno-Germanic

Germans didn't have such a big impact in Estonia.
Compared to Latvia, there is not a big difference, because these countries were united many centuries.
In Latvia there were early Scandinavian settlements, but they were not important.
I read about Viking age in Estonia. There is mentioned possible settlement and that Western and Northern Estonia were in Scandinavian cultural sphere.

[Roy]

A lot of leftists call Aussies racist, but then they do that for most White countries. The British have some mildly negative stereotypes about Australians as being uncultured/uncouth and basic, with a simple sense of humour lacking wit, which is kind of true, but that is usually good-natured ribbing similar to that which exists between different British regions/nations. It goes back to the convict and lower-class origins. Also the traditional diet here is very basic and has a poor reputation among ethnics as being bland, the same as the British diet.

Australian tourists don't have a great reputation in Bali/SE Asia, they act similar to British tourists in Europe and are known for drug-smuggling, ie Schapelle Corby. But like the Euros, the Asians are happy to take our money, so fuck 'em. Some Americans probably consider Australians to be cheap because we don't tip, I've heard it said in the US that Australian tourists are the worst tippers in the world. Personally I think the whole tipping obligation there is retarded, so I don't sympathise.

There are more internal negative stereotypes than among foreigners.

In Poland some tip and some don't, it is more expected in fancier places, we are kinda intermediate in this aspect. I've heard that in Japan there is no tipping culture at all.

And speaking of Australian cuisine ... have you tried cangaroo meat? Is it good?

[Crn Volk]

In Poland some tip and some don't, it is more expected in fancier places, we are kinda intermediate in this aspect. I've heard that in Japan there is no tipping culture at all.

And speaking of Australian cuisine ... have you tried cangaroo meat? Is it good?

There is no tipping culture in Australia either. Australia has a decent minimum wage and so no need for hand-outs. Kangaroo meat is like beef, but leaner. It is very bloody when cooking it.

[J. Ketch]

In Poland some tip and some don't, it is more expected in fancier places, we are kinda intermediate in this aspect. I've heard that in Japan there is no tipping culture at all.

And speaking of Australian cuisine ... have you tried cangaroo meat? Is it good?
It's good, but not something you'd want to have too regularly. It's tough.

[TheOldNorth]

It is a total nonsense regarding the Iberian peninsula. We are not Middle Easterns nor we feel so of course, but just Celtiberians, while curiously our less Celtizided part is the only one marked in that map :lightbul:

they are including basque as celtic because of similar haplo-groups and somewhat similar dna to british islanders. Celtiberians mixed with phonecians, romans, greeks, arabs, and berbers (all to a small extant, but moderate when all put together) making it make more sense to have non-basque spain have a middle eastern element