Phenotype prevalence for each country?

[Gerald Levett]

For me, this is based on the three Western European countries I’ve been to enough (and met enough people from) to judge, but still pretty rough.

England
- 30% Atlantid
- 20% Brünn
- 15% Trønder
- 10% Keltic Nordid
- 10% Hallstatt Nordid
- 5% Borreby
- 10% other (mish mash of remaining Germanic and Celtic phenotypes, and some Mediterranean)

Germany
- 20% Fälid
- 15% Noric
- 15% Alpine
- 12% Borreby
- 10% Trønder
- 8% Hallstatt Nordid
- 5% Dinarid
- 5% Atlantid (usually Paleo-Atlantid)
- 5% Brünn
- 5% other (negligible number but still present: Keltic Nordid, Baltid, Atlanto-Med, and Gracile Med)

France
- 35% Atlantid
- 20% Atlanto-Med
- 10% Dinarid
- 10% Gracile Med
- 10% Nordid
- 5% Brünn
- 5% Alpine
- 5% other

Accurate?

[Gerald Levett]

I accidentally posted this thread to taxonomy. Can it be moved to Anthropology general?

[XenophobicPrussian]

5% Alpine way too low for France, 35% Atlantid is too high, Germany seems pretty accurate although I would have other as higher, and England should definitely be higher in "other" if other includes mixed phenotypes. Tronder is also too high, no way England has more Tronders than Germany.

I would say the most common phenotype in England is a mix of Atlantid+KN. Alpine is definitely very present in England too, but again, will mostly be mixed with Brunn. France the most common is Atlantid+Dinarid, honestly I would go as far to say atleast half in France are Dinaricized(metrically, a plurality of French are probably the oldschool Noric or even Iron Age Keltic Nordic and not Atlantid or Atlanto-Med, if we ignore eye shape and pigmentation, although I don't know what type of system you use, to me only using metrics or skull shape is flawed). Germany I'd say Faelid+Sub-Nordid. If we're going to use very broad definitions of phenotypes, I'd say this is mostly accurate, although I would still put France as more Atlanto-Med than Atlantid, but agree with a broad "Faelid" as being #1 for Germany and a broad "Atlantid" for England.

[Oliver109]

I think England is more Borreby than Brunn, also Hallstatt is way too high, in reality it is more like 3% i reckon, Atlantid sounds about right though for England. France is also too high for gracile Med, they are virtually absent from most northern and eastern regions.

[Charlemagne7]

Keltic Nordid should be way higher for England (easily around 25-30%) and you overestimate the amount of Tronders and Hallstatts for England too. I would also say that the Atlantid in England is mostly of the North Atlantid variety and not so much the regular one. Your Alpine % for France is extremely low, I think it's easily around 20-40% depending on how we're defining it.

[JamesBond007]

Keltic Nordid should be way higher for England (easily around 25-30%) and you overestimate the amount of Tronders and Hallstatts for England too. I would also say that the Atlantid in England is mostly of the North Atlantid variety and not so much the regular one. Your Alpine % for France is extremely low, I think it's easily around 20-40% depending on how we're defining it.

It depends on the region I would guess. Southern England has more Continental influence so regular Atlantids may perhaps be found in SouthWest England while the midlands and NorthCumbria may have more insular North-Atlantids and Paleo-Atlantids but none of
this is cut n' dry nor hard n' fast.

[Gerald Levett]

What about Ireland and Scotland? Broadly Keltic Nordid and Atlantid I assume.

[JamesBond007]

What about Ireland and Scotland? Broadly Keltic Nordid and Atlantid I assume.

Ireland : Brunn + Keltic nordic other types such as Atlantid a minority compared to Wales and England.

Scotland : Atlantid+Irish or Atlanto-med+Irish in the West or southWest with Tronder in the East or northeast and strong Tronder+Anglo-Saxon influence in the Southeast and KN etc.. throughout

*Shrug* that is my best guess. I think Ireland has the least Atlantid types and Wales the most.

[Immanenz]

Those lists cant be taken seriously because basically everyone has their own view on things- its more lookism than anthropology.
Everyone with a squarre jaw is Faelid, while individuals clearly in meso even dolicephalic are decleared sometimes as Dinarics/ Norics. And obv. this can happen to everyone without measuring the individual or having a good look on the skull...

[Avicenna]

Borreby only 5%? Really ?

[Immanenz]

Borreby only 5%? Really ?

yes, its totally underrated for Britain as a whole- but mainly also because people expect Borrebies to look Danish.

But 5 % Alpine only in France was the best thing on that list.

[Gallicus]

Much more Alpine and Nordoid in France.

[Avicenna]

yes, its totally underrated for Britain as a whole- but mainly also because people expect Borrebies to look Danish.

But 5 % Alpine only in France was the best thing on that list.

Ahh I think I made an error . Thought borreby was something else .

[Creoda]

Atlantid is no more than 10% in England, maybe combined with North Atlantid it's 20%+, more significant in the South. Anglo-Saxon+Tronder over 20%. Borreby 10% or above. Hallstatt Nordic very low, below 5%. Keltic Nordic over 25%, maybe up to 40% in parts. Brunn is less than 10%, I overrated it in the past, but in some parts like NW England it's more significant. Paleo-Atlantid types also 5-10%, more significant in the North.

[JamesBond007]

Atlantid is no more than 10% in England, maybe combined with North Atlantid it's 20%+, more significant in the South. Anglo-Saxon+Tronder over 20%. Borreby 10% or above. Hallstatt Nordic very low, below 5%. Keltic Nordic over 25%, maybe up to 40% in parts. Brunn is less than 10%, I overrated it in the past, but in some parts like NW England it's more significant. Paleo-Atlantid types also 5-10%, more significant in the North.

Both Atlantid and Anglo-Saxon are minority types in England speaking in the strict sense but culturally the Germanic part is the most significant and it is BOTH the Atlantid and Germanic elements, in the wide sense, that differentiate England from Ireland anthropometrically. Since, KN is by far the most common racial condition throughout the British isles it is generally minority elements that set Wales, Ireland, Scotland and England apart from each other.

For instance, it Yorkshire, Lincolnshire , Norfolk, Suffolk, East Anglia, Cornwall, Devonshire, midlands and NorthCumbria that set England apart from Ireland.

[Creoda]

What about Ireland and Scotland? Broadly Keltic Nordid and Atlantid I assume.
Keltic Nordic and Brunn is the major combination in Ireland and Scotland, with smaller amounts of Atlantid/Paleo-Atlantid types. Wales is similar but with more of an Atlantid/North Atlantid flair.

[Jana]

Germany is mostly subnordid, not Faelid. France has tons of Alpines, maybe most common phenotype there.

[Jana]

England has such miniscule amount of Atlantids, and you put it at the top? Loool

Keltic Nordid derivates are most common phenotype in England from what I saw, followed by Anglo-Saxons and than Borreby/Brunn
Famous North Atlantid is totally minor type too.

[Gerald Levett]

Germany is definitely more Fälid (or more general Nordo-Cromagnid) than it is Sub-Nordid. Going to disagree with you very much there. I seem to have underestimated the amount of Alpines in France but narrow faces dominate throughout the whole country so up to 40% of French being Alpine like some have claimed is ridiculous.

[Charlemagne7]

Germany is definitely more Fälid (or more general Nordo-Cromagnid) than it is Sub-Nordid. Going to disagree with you very much there. I seem to have underestimated the amount of Alpines in France but narrow faces dominate throughout the whole country so up to 40% of French being Alpine like some have claimed is ridiculous.

I should have said Alpine influenced then (Subnordid, Alpine med,etc)
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/34/Ripley_map_of_cephalic_index_in_Europe.png/723px-Ripley_map_of_cephalic_index_in_Europe.png

[Jana]

Germany is definitely more Fälid (or more general Nordo-Cromagnid) than it is Sub-Nordid. Going to disagree with you very much there. I seem to have underestimated the amount of Alpines in France but narrow faces dominate throughout the whole country so up to 40% of French being Alpine like some have claimed is ridiculous.

No it isn't. And probably unlike you I lived in Germany. 40% of French being alpine like is quite realistic. Seems you are just another American without much real experience with Europeans.

[chociprasa]

I'd say Borreby is slightly more common than Alpinid in Germany (I saw Borreby types everywhere in Germany, there were alot of them in southwestern Germany, near the French border), but Alpinid/Subnordid is definitely very common (I saw alot of Alpines even in northwestern Germany). Dinarid/Norid is criminally underrated aswell, it's another element that exists in all over Germany, Faelid and Faelid-mixed people are still very common.

I'd also say that Baltid is much more common than pure Trønder/Hallstatt/Brünn (also depends on how you define "Trønder" I guess) in Germany, it's quite underrated aswell.

[chociprasa]

Both Atlantid and Anglo-Saxon are minority types in England speaking in the strict sense but culturally the Germanic part is the most significant and it is BOTH the Atlantid and Germanic elements, in the wide sense, that differentiate England from Ireland anthropometrically. Since, KN is by far the most common racial condition throughout the British isles it is generally minority elements that set Wales, Ireland, Scotland and England apart from each other.

For instance, it Yorkshire, Lincolnshire , Norfolk, Suffolk, East Anglia, Cornwall, Devonshire, midlands and NorthCumbria that set England apart from Ireland.

Anglo-Saxon seems (far) more common than Atlantid in England atleast.

[Übermensch]

England:
Anglosaxon:20%
Tronder:15%
Borreby:10%
Brunn:15%
North atlantid:15%
Keltic nordid:10%
Halstatt:5%
Atlantid:10%

France:

20% subnordid
15% north atlantid
20% alpinid
10% atlantid
5% gracilmed
5% borreby
15% dinarid
9% keltic nordid
1% halstatt nordid

Germany:
15% Borreby
15% faelid
5% brunn
20% anglosaxon+tronder
15% dinarid
10% subnordid
5% alpinid
5% Baltid
7% north atlantid
2% atlantid
1% gracilmed

IMO

[Creoda]

Anglo-Saxon seems (far) more common than Atlantid in England atleast.
Anglo-Saxon strictly is not so common but as a broader category including Tronder types it's possibly the second most common after Keltic Nordic.

Atlantid is an almost pan-Western type (like JB007) that is equally or more common in France, so it's not one of the dominant types in England, and North Atlantid is overrated. Combined though they could be considered a major type.

[Creoda]

England:
Anglosaxon:20%
Tronder:15%
Borreby:10%
Brunn:15%
North atlantid:15%
Keltic nordid:10%
Halstatt:5%
Atlantid:10%

Anglo-Saxon+Tronder is no more than 1/4, let alone 35%. As Oliver said Borreby influence is more significant than Brunn, contrary to Ireland/Scotland. Keltic Nordic is absolute minimum 20% in England, probably over 1/4.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Anglo-Saxon seems (far) more common than Atlantid in England atleast.
Anglo-Saxon isn't a legitimate phenotype(it's just Hallstatt with minor CM influence), and are you really going to tell me these people(the most prominent and widely used examples on the internet of this "Anglo-Saxon" I could find):

https://celebposter.com/thumbs/Paul-Bettany-poster_2391085_b.jpg

https://tvline.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/chris-hemsworth.jpg?w=620

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2e/2f/3a/2e2f3a3abe28e0ef77cebff2d3e5f48c.jpg

(of course, none of these are actually "Anglo-Saxons", but Hallstatt+Faelid or +Brunn depending on definition of Brunn, North Atlantid+Faelid or +Brunn, and KN+CM or +Tronder)

are more common in England than these people:

https://www.newschainonline.com/bsp-static/image/2021/01/06/16/918024a8a12aa5caeb2e0addbab5bf35Y29udGVudHNlYXJjaC wxNjEwMDM1ODc1-2.56731152.jpg?width=640&crop=61:45,smart&auto=webp

https://www.irishtimes.com/polopoly_fs/1.3463160.1523874102!/image/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/ratio_1x1_w1200/image.jpg

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/640/cpsprodpb/4886/production/_116766581_shutterstock_editorial_10782124fn.jpg

https://www.tablesleague.com/players/355408_cole_stockton_1.jpg

Of course some people will say those are Brunns, dark Nordics or some shit. It's not the fault of Atlantids that a bunch of southern Europeans wanted to be something more northern and hijacked the term to include people with no obvious Nordic influence like this obviously Atlanto-Med Englishman:

https://www.stroudnewsandjournal.co.uk/resources/images/1753893.jpg?display=1&htype=100000&type=responsive-gallery

The man who coined the Atlantid term's example looks very British, and not what passes off as "Atlantid" to a lot of people.

https://i.imgur.com/KNWtI.jpg

Hooton's examples of a similar type look the same, four of Hooton's examples(not these two) even had extremely obvious Brunn influence, two having significant Brunn influence(again, not these two examples below, these are more standard Atlantids).

https://i1.wp.com/i39.photobucket.com/albums/e181/Borntobeking/NordicMedterranean3.jpg

https://i2.wp.com/i39.photobucket.com/albums/e181/Borntobeking/plate9.jpg

Atlantid is quintessentially a British type, North Atlantid is more common, but both peak in the British Isles, and is one of the more common phenotypes there. Of course, the majority of British people(and all European people) are of mixed phenotypes(depending on your definition of a phenotype and how broad a range it can encompass, the tighter definition makes more sense to me, both logically and in terms of the genetic history of most places), and pure phenotypes are the exception rather than the rule.

[Creoda]

Anglo-Saxon isn't a legitimate phenotype(it's just Hallstatt with minor CM influence)
That's sort of how I feel about Atlantid though. Who exactly are the 'Atlantids' and where did they come from? They're not a mix of Med and Nordic as is often said, they must be a Celtic type. Don't really seem quintessentially British if they're mostly dark/mixed eyed though, and it seems more like a bridge between French and British phenotypes in many cases, which fits with a Continental Celtic origin.

Even if Anglo-Saxon is an unnecessary or overrated type at least it can be historically traced and put in a distinct Germanic Nordic family alongside Tronder and Hallstatt (sic), that were indisputably brought by Anglo-Saxons in the case of England.

[Nurzat]

almost all Romanians are basically a mix of two or three of these components (in this order):

- Mediterranean
- Alpine
- Dinaric


most prevalent are the Med-Alpines East of the Carpathians and Med-Alpine-Dinaric (Carpathic) West of the Carpathians.

southwest Romania (Banat region) is especially Dinaric.

a small percentage of Romanians show exotic influences: Baltic, Nordic or Turanic mostly