Why are Armenians white but Turks are not?

[Mortimer]

I think Armenians like Kurds are more westasian and turks are a little more european?

[Westbrook]

I don't think I've ever seen a white Armenian in my life

[placebo]

why are armenians white but turks are not
why are georgians white but turks are not
why are cypriots white but turks are not
why are pontic greeks white but turks are not
why are cappadocian greeks white but turks are not

etc. etc. because they are christian. :DDDD none of them are white including we turks.

[Pater Patota]

Generally, Turkey’s population have more fair complexion than Armenian, Georgian, Cypriot and Azerbaijani population.

[Armenian Bishop]

In 1925, the courts ruled that Armenians are White, and reaffirmed an earlier court decision, which came to the same conclusion, in 1909. This excerpt from the court document makes it clear: "it may be confidently affirmed that the Armenians are white persons, and moreover that they readily amalgamate with the European and white races." That set a legal precedent that remained in place, throughout the 20th Century, in America.
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/F2/6/919/1551454/

[FinalFlash]

I don't think I've ever seen a white Armenian in my life

You probably have preconceived notions on what Armenians look like.

[XenophobicPrussian]

I don't think I've ever seen a white Armenian in my life
https://www.rondarousey.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/edmed-1024x560.jpg

https://fighter-headshots.s3.amazonaws.com/mens-mw/Edmen-Shahbazyan.jpg

(yes, fully Armenian, not white because his eye shape is all wrong, but everyone not versed in anthropology would consider him white)

[Armenian Bishop]

This excerpt from an article published in September, 2020, is interesting:

"I understand that many Armenians hesitate to call themselves white. I am one of those Armenians. Yet I firmly believe that we, for the most part, are white-passing and therefore have white privilege. It doesn’t hurt that the vast majority of Armenians are Christian, too."

https://thecolgatemaroonnews.com/23987/commentary/armenians-and-race-a-personal-response-to-an-impossible-question/

[FinalFlash]

I think Armenians like Kurds are more westasian and turks are a little more european?

Turks are also not fully Caucasoid(Eastern and Trabzonian Turks excluded) :)

[Armenian Bishop]

This excerpt from the United States v. Cartozian, 1925 Court Document is noteworthy:

"Although the Armenian province is within the confines of the Turkish Empire, being in Asia Minor,the people thereof have always held themselves aloof from the Turks, the Kurds, and allied peoples, principally, it might be said, on account of their religion, though color may have had something to do with it. The Armenians, tradition has it, very early, about the fourth century, espoused the Christian religion, and have ever since consistently adhered to their belief, and practiced it. Whatever analogy there may be or may exist between the Caucasian and the white races that may be of assistance in the present controversy, the alliance of the Armenians with the Caucasians of Russia has ever been very close. Indeed, the Armenians have for many generations, possibly centuries, occupied territory in Caucasian Russia, have intermingled freely and harmoniously with that people, and the races mix and amalgamate readily and spontaneously. This is strongly evidentiary of the kinship of the two types of people, and that both are of the Alpine stock. The status of these people thus evolved would seem to be practically conclusive of their eligibility to citizenship in the United States, seeing that they are of Alpine stock, and so remain to the present time, without appreciable blending with the Mongolian or other kindred races."

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/F2/6/919/1551454/

[placebo]

people cannot understand that there is not that HUGE difference between northwest asia and southern europe. (i don't claim they're similar yeah many differences but passing is not that hard) that's the whole point.


This excerpt from the United States v. Cartozian, 1925 Court Document is noteworthy:

"Although the Armenian province is within the confines of the Turkish Empire, being in Asia Minor,the people thereof have always held themselves aloof from the Turks, the Kurds, and allied peoples, principally, it might be said, on account of their religion, though color may have had something to do with it. The Armenians, tradition has it, very early, about the fourth century, espoused the Christian religion, and have ever since consistently adhered to their belief, and practiced it. Whatever analogy there may be or may exist between the Caucasian and the white races that may be of assistance in the present controversy, the alliance of the Armenians with the Caucasians of Russia has ever been very close. Indeed, the Armenians have for many generations, possibly centuries, occupied territory in Caucasian Russia, have intermingled freely and harmoniously with that people, and the races mix and amalgamate readily and spontaneously. This is strongly evidentiary of the kinship of the two types of people, and that both are of the Alpine stock. The status of these people thus evolved would seem to be practically conclusive of their eligibility to citizenship in the United States, seeing that they are of Alpine stock, and so remain to the present time, without appreciable blending with the Mongolian or other kindred races."

https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/F2/6/919/1551454/

lol

[Armenian Bishop]

people cannot understand that there is not that HUGE difference between northwest asia and southern europe. (i don't claim they're similar yeah many differences but passing is not that hard) that's the whole point.

I'm not trying to dispute that, but I put it in a historical context, for the American perception of White.

[placebo]

I'm not trying to dispute that, but I put it in a historical context, for the American perception of White.

Even Saudis are white according to American White perception. (caucasoid) You don't need to nonsense such as the Russian influence. We all know the genetically related list of the Armenians.

[lustermoo]

Even Saudis are white according to American White perception. (caucasoid) You don't need to nonsense such as the Russian influence. We all know the genetically related list of the Armenians.

Nah even with the census I think most Arabs of that ilk like Saudis and Yemenis are never seen as white in America
I think Biden is going to change it to a MENA category though I’ve heard about that

[placebo]

Nah even with the census I think most Arabs of that ilk like Saudis and Yemenis are never seen as white in America
I think Biden is going to change it to a MENA category though I’ve heard about that

of course you're right but i'm already talking about census.

bullshit because mena term is nothing racial.

[Mortimer]

You probably have preconceived notions on what Armenians look like.

I dont, but I know that they are not "whiter" then turks, or any other muslim westasian like the kurds. Armenians were white and eligible for citizenship in the USA, I learned now, but so were Syrians, I dont know if Turks were, but if they were not it was wrong or illogical.

[Kyp]

https://celebprivate.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/20170928-Celebrity-Uncensored-CELXXX.COM-ana-kasparian-2017-streamy-awards-in-beverly-hills-1.jpg

White Turk on the right

[placebo]

https://celebprivate.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/20170928-Celebrity-Uncensored-CELXXX.COM-ana-kasparian-2017-streamy-awards-in-beverly-hills-1.jpg

White Turk on the right

https://cdn1.ntv.com.tr/gorsel/Ad_x3EDGPUGjPbkrSRRMrA.jpg?width=650&height=800&mode=crop&scale=both&v=20181209112854862

xdddd

and vice versa, both these photos means nothing

[Mortimer]

https://celebprivate.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/20170928-Celebrity-Uncensored-CELXXX.COM-ana-kasparian-2017-streamy-awards-in-beverly-hills-1.jpg

White Turk on the right

That guy is asian alpinid - anatolid (armenian/med mix) and CM. Nothing unusual for armenian descendt. If he is not white so are armenians not, if armenians are white he is too.

[Armenian Bishop]

I dont, but I know that they are not "whiter" then turks, or any other muslim westasian like the kurds. Armenians were white and eligible for citizenship in the USA, I learned now, but so were Syrians, I dont know if Turks were, but if they were not it was wrong or illogical.

Turks and Kurds, in America, weren't added to the "White List" until later than Armenians. By the way, the first Armenian immigrant to America (Martin), arrived (with Captain John Smith) at Jamestown, Virginia, in 1607. Martin, a tobacco grower, also raised silkworms. In earlier times, White characteristics were more than genetic, and physical, it was also about cultural and religious orientations. It was only the Christian Levantine people who got admitted as White.

[Mortimer]

Turks and Kurds, in America, weren't added to the "White List" until later than Armenians. By the way, the first Armenian immigrant to America (Martin), arrived (with Captain John Smith) at Jamestown, Virginia, in 1607. Martin, a tobacco grower, also raised silkworms. In earlier times, White characteristics were more than genetic, and physical, it was also about cultural and religious orientations. It was only the Christian Levantine people who got admitted as White.

I think every nation has a first colonial immigrant, I read 3 gypsies arrived with the Mayflower. It is possible, one or two immigrants are always everyhwere. You know very well the history of armenians and turks and kurds in the USA. I dont. I just know what armenians look like as I saw many in real life, and they have a darker skin then ethnic turks and georgians, georgians and ethnic turks are lighter then armenians who look like the kurds in eastern turkey. Im not lying I saw enough armenians and enough turks, almost all turks are pale as snow, especially the hijabis.

[Armenian Bishop]

I think every nation has a first colonial immigrant, I read 3 gypsies arrived with the Mayflower. It is possible, one or two immigrants are always everyhwere. You know very well the history of armenians and turks and kurds in the USA. I dont. I just know what armenians look like as I saw many in real life, and they have a darker skin then ethnic turks and georgians, georgians and ethnic turks are lighter then armenians who look like the kurds in eastern turkey. Im not lying I saw enough armenians and enough turks, almost all turks are pale as snow, especially the hijabis.

Are you in love with a Turkish Señorita? Is that why you can't see straight?

[Armenian Bishop]

Sorry Man, I was kidding or trolling.


I think every nation has a first colonial immigrant, I read 3 gypsies arrived with the Mayflower. It is possible, one or two immigrants are always everyhwere. You know very well the history of armenians and turks and kurds in the USA. I dont. I just know what armenians look like as I saw many in real life, and they have a darker skin then ethnic turks and georgians, georgians and ethnic turks are lighter then armenians who look like the kurds in eastern turkey. Im not lying I saw enough armenians and enough turks, almost all turks are pale as snow, especially the hijabis.


Are you in love with a Turkish Señorita? Is that why you can't see straight?

[Rafael Passoni]

Are christian Syrians white people?

[Armenian Bishop]

Are christian Syrians white people?

The idea is a manmade concept. Some say yes, others say no.

[Loki]

Because Armenians are Christian. "White" is about more than just skin colour, culture means a great deal.

Then again, who said all Turks are non-White? Most Western Turks seem more European in outlook and they are definitely Caucasoid in race.

[Loki]

Are christian Syrians white people?

They usually are, yes.

[Megadorian]

What is "whiteness" what does a Greek Islander and Norseman have in common

The term itself is very flawed and misleading.

[Rafael Passoni]

My Franco-Syrian great-grandpa was a blonde and blue eyed guy. White passing guaranted at least, I think.

[FinalFlash]

I think every nation has a first colonial immigrant, I read 3 gypsies arrived with the Mayflower. It is possible, one or two immigrants are always everyhwere. You know very well the history of armenians and turks and kurds in the USA. I dont. I just know what armenians look like as I saw many in real life, and they have a darker skin then ethnic turks and georgians, georgians and ethnic turks are lighter then armenians who look like the kurds in eastern turkey. Im not lying I saw enough armenians and enough turks, almost all turks are pale as snow, especially the hijabis.

I've seen enough Turks in my lifetime to know that there's no difference between Armenians or Turks in terms of pigmentation. Both groups, more or less have the same pigmentation. Georgians on the other hand(certain Georgians), are a different story.

[GoalPoacher]

I've seen enough Turks in my lifetime to know that there's no difference between Armenians or Turks in terms of pigmentation. Both groups, more or less have the same pigmentation. Georgians on the other hand(certain Georgians), are a different story.

Which part of Turkey were the Turks that you've met from?

[FinalFlash]

Which part of Turkey were the Turks that you've met from?

Anatolian, not assimilated Balkanites or Circassians. Like Armenians, they had their fair share of lighter and swarthier individuals.

[Frowning Man]

Georgians on the other hand(certain Georgians), are a different story.

What Georgians are you talking about?

[FinalFlash]

What Georgians are you talking about?

Western Georgians.

[Frowning Man]

Anatolian, not assimilated Balkanites or Circassians. Like Armenians, they had their fair share of lighter and swarthier individuals.

Sorry, there was a mistake with the message.

[Frowning Man]

Western Georgians.

You're partially right. But do not forget about the northeastern Georgians - Khevsurs, Pshavs, mtiuly, Mokhevtsy. They are more like us western Georgians than southeastern ones (Tbilisi and neighboring regions).

[jfgh676]

armenians are not white. Not even med looking. They are the most iranid and assyroid looking people in the mid east region. Look at kim kardashian,and shes only half armenian

[FinalFlash]

You're partially right. But do not forget about the northeastern Georgians - Khevsurs, Pshavs, mtiuly, Mokhevtsy. They are more like us western Georgians than southeastern ones (Tbilisi and neighboring regions).

You're right. Georgians have their diversity as well.

[FinalFlash]

armenians are not white. Not even med looking. They are the most iranid and assyroid looking people in the mid east region. Look at kim kardashian,and shes only half armenian

Yeah man. More Iranid and Assyroid than Iranians and Assyrians respectively. The aforementioned are complete imposters lol

[Armenian Bishop]

They usually are, yes.

Actually, I agree. Of course Syrian Christians are White, among them are Armenian Syrian Christians. Assad is their shield and guardian. I should've just come out and said it.

[Armenian Bishop]

My Franco-Syrian great-grandpa was a blonde and blue eyed guy. White passing guaranted at least, I think.

I'm pretty sure that you meant: Syrian immigrant and French Citizen. Am I right? A blonde, blue-eyed Syrian grandfather, well that makes it pretty clear. Anyway, Loki is right, Syrian Christians are usually White.

[Armenian Bishop]

My Armenian grandfather had blue eyes (or bluish-grey). His Sicilian friend, Baldassare Forestiere, in Fresno, California, actually thought him to be Italian, and they conversed in that language. Forestiere engineered and built his estate underground, and it's now a historic landmark site there. My mom also looked like a typical Southern European, but her ancestry 100% Armenian.
http://www.undergroundgardens.com

[XenophobicPrussian]

I think we can come to a compromise here.

Armenians and Syrian Christians are white(they sure as hell were "whiter" to the Romans and Greeks/Byzantines than Germans or Celts), but then people north of the Alps are non-white. They are something else. You can call them pig skinned savage Mongs for all I care, they just shouldn't be mentioned in the same vein at all.

This thread. :picard2:

[catgeorge]

Armenians have more interests and aligned with white people than Turks do.

[Jana]

Generally, Turkey’s population have more fair complexion than Armenian, Georgian, Cypriot and Azerbaijani population.

Georgians are def. lighter than Turks on average.

[FinalFlash]

Georgians are def. lighter than Turks on average.

Correct.

[Westbrook]

You mean based on the fact that they don't look white
You probably have preconceived notions on what Armenians look like.

[FinalFlash]

You mean based on the fact that they don't look white

Nope. Based on the likelihood that you've probably passed by many of them and never assumed them to be Armenian because of your preconceived notions of what an Armenian is supposed to look like.

Or

You have a very strict view as to who looks 'white' that's likely restricted to phenotypes common throughout NW, N, and Central Europe.

[NSXD60]

Because Mannix had a Black secretary who considered him White and it's been carte blanche ever since.

[Adamm]

Its all subjective.

[Rafael Passoni]

Anyway, MyHeritage was unable to detect 25% Syrian DNA in my mom and cluster her with Europeans, along Northern Italians and Frenchs.

[GoalPoacher]

Guys, Levantine Christians are no less Middle Eastern than their Muslim compatriots(genetically speaking).

[catgeorge]

Its all subjective.

Not really

An all Armenian band


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSvFpBOe8eY&ab_channel=systemofadownVEVO

[catgeorge]

...and these are Greeks


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHi6bU5DzfE&ab_channel=Nightstalker

[Hektor12]

Because Turks dont do what "real" whites do. But armenians proudly do. I think armenians are at peak point of American whiteness.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2019/04/06/08/11934216-0-image-a-3_1554537571808.jpg
https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/56b231ee1a00009c01ab1ea3.jpeg?cache=yczkkmwasw&ops=crop_0_114_703_503,scalefit_630_noupscale
https://s.abcnews.com/images/US/HT_Simpson_Kardashian2_MEM_150922_16x9t_992.jpg
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ELrgYsfU0AARVtb.jpg

And dont forget; "She never allowed a white dick inside her."

[catgeorge]

Turks are just sick dogs that need to be put down to save humanity.

[princeton90]

I think Armenians like Kurds are more westasian and turks are a little more european?

IMHO, it is mainly because of Armenians' being mostly Christian. As for genetics, Kurds, Armenians, Christian Levantines are more West Asian than Turks, therefore you are right.

[placebo]

Turks are just sick dogs that need to be put down to save humanity.

pathetic fanatic

[catgeorge]

pathetic fanatic

No just don't want sons of whores meddling in my business.

[placebo]

No just don't want sons of whores meddling in my business.

please shut the fuck up and keep on suck eu dick.

[catgeorge]

please shut the fuck up and keep on suck eu dick.

Your grandmother, your great grand mother or great great grand mother was a whore. Is it any surprise the holy capital you now call Istanbul is the capital of homosexualism. Your are sons of whores from the Satan.

..but my bloodline is from the army of Satan to eradicate sons of whores and Islamic waste.

[Armenian Bishop]

Because Mannix had a Black secretary who considered him White and it's been carte blanche ever since.

Mike Connors, also known as Krekor Ohanian (1925-2017), was the actor who starred as Detective Joe Mannix, in the Mannix TV Serries. The Surname Ohanian translates into English, as Johnson. Mike Connors came from a Fresno, California, Armenian Family; my Fresno Armenian relatives did know him personally.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lwprv8y0vNI

[Pine]

Armenians are a firmly Middle Eastern population. If Armenians are white, then white just means West Eurasian.

[Ayetooey]

Both are West Asian populations, but Turks have a lot more steppe and recent European ancestry than Armenians. Armenians are incredibly distant genetically to all Europeans.

[TheOldNorth]

who said Armenians are white? They are north middle eastern or south Caucasian (meaning of the Caucasus not Caucasoid which is more broad of a term)

[SilverKnight]

I don't consider Turks as white. They're a caucasoid subgroup of course, just not white. Armenians are much closer to Europeans then most Turks are.

[Ayetooey]

I don't consider Turks as white. They're a Caucaoid subgroup of course, just not white. Armenians are much closer to Europeans then most Turks are.

Not true. Examples from all four genetic extremes of Europe + central Europe (Austria) Europeans are universally much closer to the average Turk genetically, the only exceptions being Black Sea turks who overlap significantly with Armenians. This is despite Turks having significant East Eurasian Admix which shifts them further away from Europe (they're still closer than Armenians). Nothing wrong with Christians having more cultural sympathy towards Armenia, but they aren't genetically European. This is a big genetic myth which still persists.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/838118202322976838/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/838118269265248265/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/838118353524621332/unknown.png
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/611586491982020628/838118068664139816/unknown.png

[FinalFlash]

Both are West Asian populations, but Turks have a lot more steppe and recent European ancestry than Armenians. Armenians are incredibly distant genetically to all Europeans.

Untrue. Some Turkish subgroups don't have more European ancestry than Armenians. Also, what's "incredibly distant" to you?

[Ayetooey]

Untrue. Some Turkish subgroups don't have more European ancestry than Armenians. Also, what's "incredibly distant" to you?

Only Black sea Turks (aka Pontians) and Meskhetians (Georgian Turks) don't.

The distances above are huge, even to the most WANA shifted geographical Europeans (dodecanese islanders) have a distance to Armenians of over 20.

[FinalFlash]

Only Black sea Turks (aka Pontians) and Meskhetians (Georgian Turks) don't.

The distances above are huge, even to the most WANA shifted geographical Europeans (dodecanese islanders) have a distance to Armenians of over 20.

The distances between even the most southern of Europeans and WAs are substantial and Armenians are no exception to this rule.

However, the disparities in European admix between Armenians and you average Anatolian Turk are grossly exaggerated imo. Both are firmly in the Northern West Asia cluster. Based off of this, with minor exceptions here and there, neither side is genetically "whiter" than the other.

[Armenian Bishop]

Both are West Asian populations, but Turks have a lot more steppe and recent European ancestry than Armenians. Armenians are incredibly distant genetically to all Europeans.

23andMe confused my Armenian ancestral genetic origin with an Italian genetic origin; and, it took them 3 years for them to figure it out, and relabel it as Armenian (instead of Italian). I recall that they had me figured at 56% Italian; now, it has been redone with 52% Armenian. The Italian is no longer there, and most of the remaining part is French and German.

[Ayetooey]

23andMe confused my Armenian ancestral genetic origin with an Italian genetic origin; and, it took them 3 years for them to figure it out, and relabel it as Armenian (instead of Italian). I recall that they had me figured at 56% Italian; now, it has been redone with 52% Armenian. The Italian is no longer there, and most of the remaining part is French and German.

Lol dude ok, Armenians have nothing to do with Italians genetically, your an American of mixed ancestry so these things happen. You can check the figures yourself on vahaduo. I understand why you don't want to identify as West Asian considering your hostile neighbors, and I have every sympathy for Armenians historically, but genetics don't lie.

[Armenian Bishop]

Lol dude ok, Armenians have nothing to do with Italians genetically, your an American of mixed ancestry so these things happen. You can check the figures yourself on vahaduo. I understand why you don't want to identify as West Asian considering your hostile neighbors, and I have every sympathy for Armenians historically, but genetics don't lie.

How did "American" figure in there? I'm not a First Nation Native American, in fact I have ancestors who fought, in battles, against the Sioux. LOL

[Dr_Maul]

In 1925, the courts ruled that Armenians are White, and reaffirmed an earlier court decision, which came to the same conclusion, in 1909. This excerpt from the court document makes it clear: "it may be confidently affirmed that the Armenians are white persons, and moreover that they readily amalgamate with the European and white races." That set a legal precedent that remained in place, throughout the 20th Century, in America.
https://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/F2/6/919/1551454/

They said the same about Parsis lol, their definitions aren't exactly precedent

[Pine]

Did the OWD gene spread from Ararat?

[FinalFlash]

Did the OWD gene spread from Ararat?

Where do you see OWD?

[Pine]

Where do you see OWD?

https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/images/story/201509/bad-doggy-story-size_647_091815125920.jpg

[FinalFlash]

https://akm-img-a-in.tosshub.com/indiatoday/images/story/201509/bad-doggy-story-size_647_091815125920.jpg

Lame.

[Hamilcar]

the only "whites" in this part of the world are israelis

[Adamm]

Not really

An all Armenian band


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSvFpBOe8eY&ab_channel=systemofadownVEVO

Again its subjective, they dont look white to me at all.

[Adamm]

the only "whites" in this part of the world are israelis

And only the Askhenazi ones (and not even all of them pass as 'white').

[Hamilcar]

And only the Askhenazi ones (and not even all of them pass as 'white').

nope both ashkenazim and sephardim (ME looking ones are rare the same way some south europeans can look ME or north african sometimes) they make up the majority of the country if we exclude arabs of course

[Dušan]

Armenians are honorary Europeans by their Christian culture and religion.

MENA Muslims (Arabs, Turks, Iranians, Pakistanis etc) should not be jealous about that fact and should mind their own bussiness.
There are no closer nations to Europeans than Georgians and Armenians.

[Sora]

I don't consider Turks as white. They're a caucasoid subgroup of course, just not white. Armenians are much closer to Europeans then most Turks are.


Indeed Armenians & Turks are at the same closeness to Europeans, also Turks(especially Balkan & Western Anatolian ones) have more European phenotypes such as Med, Pontid, Dinarid etc. than Armenians do. But it's true Armenians are more Caucasoid than Turks due to Turks having 2%-20% Mongoloid admixture, while Armenians are always 100% Caucasoid. But we almost have the same European admixture as 15%-30%

[Rafael Passoni]

I and love watching their soap opera. Their actors are among the most beautiful people I ever seen.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwVrLS0q3xMvt_SW5KOWoC8cMDpUJft pzAzg&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQj_v3_KbcxaQunwvdMj8qHOKulIaqUV aQdDuWMXyMhMavnFeGO3mOpoSE&s=10
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWrY1fIruyIlxaqN0ThDGSSfCQh57iQ Oselg&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSKMDr7rdWmI2WD4yRh6myLfHwxqj3XS 420Ew&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTSusz1rdQA21GEi8dq4BIqcAGIFShzQ y5FvQ&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSeoLVyVIa_1XeTwyb4Zs1MG-nfay3mYgXN2g&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQ9oEsPY7Q-9oTayu32OldYXNXqdE7ylQlNBg&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTDZV0cNnHcPe2EGIyZlF__tw5EKuFFy UpWuA&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTwYLZRFKeP4YBzj1cn2FIlBAvsoen6K 1gYsw&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSwJyRXo-Bv1sb1qcyLuTrRg56Qld_WnRin6w&usqp=CAU
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSafaScxy5DMOjdGyxFRDJkGUt_jq9Gd k1Umw&usqp=CAU

[Слога]

Armenians are not Europeans, so they are not White. They are Caucasian people.

[Pine]

Armenians are not Europeans, so they are not White. They are Caucasian people.

Only part of their geography is in the Caucasus. They plot between the Caucasus and Southwest Asia. They have clear Semitic admixture.

[Слога]

Armenians are honorary Europeans by their Christian culture and religion.

MENA Muslims (Arabs, Turks, Iranians, Pakistanis etc) should not be jealous about that fact and should mind their own bussiness.
There are no closer nations to Europeans than Georgians and Armenians.

They are Christians, but that doesn't make them Europeans. Leave term European out of this, there can be Orthodox Black or Chinese, does that mean that they are Europeans or worse "Honorary" Europeans?

[Dušan]

They are Christians, but that doesn't make them Europeans. Leave term European out of this, there can be Orthodox Black or Chinese, does that mean that they are Europeans or worse "Honorary" Europeans?

Armenians are way closer to Europeans, than Blacks or Chinese are.

As I said, among all Asia and Africa, Armenians and Georgians are closest to Europeans.
If they are not, then who are???

- Christians
- native Cuacasians, with no Mongoloid and SSA admixture
- last two centuries under Russian rule, that spread European influence

These are Armenians. They do not look completely foreign for Europeans.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouEB2X9sZBA

[GoalPoacher]

Only part of their geography is in the Caucasus. They plot between the Caucasus and Southwest Asia. They have clear Semitic admixture.

I think Mesopotamian would be the right term. In Dodecad K12b SWA average of Armenian_West average is 16%, which is just in between Greek_Pontus(12-13%) and Assyrians(19%). That makes sense considering where they're originally from

[Pine]

I think Mesopotamian would be the right term. In Dodecad K12b SWA average of Armenian_West average is 16%, which is just in between Greek_Pontus(12-13%) and Assyrians(19%). That makes sense considering where they're originally from

Mesopotamian is correct, however, you'll find recently entered Semitic lineages among them.

[Radimir]

Christianity and the Kardashians. If Turkey convert to Christianity and get their own Kardashians to sway public opinion then maybe they might be considered White too. lol

[Слога]

Armenians are way closer to Europeans, than Blacks or Chinese are.

As I said, among all Asia and Africa, Armenians and Georgians are closest to Europeans.
If they are not, then who are???

- Christians
- native Cuacasians, with no Mongoloid and SSA admixture
- last two centuries under Russian rule, that spread European influence

These are Armenians. They do not look completely foreign for Europeans.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ouEB2X9sZBA

This topic is too sensitive, so i'll write from my part of view.

Ethnic Armenian with originaly Armenian phenotype (Armenoid).

https://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy91/nt_1488/clasificacion/dinaridarmenoidarmenoidedinaricohithereasternracea rmenidarmenidonexidnexidorazanexida.jpg

On this photo, they look Semitic.

https://www.panorama.am/news_images/519/1554189_2/f56fc03d9cd7b0_56fc03d9cd7ee.thumb.jpg

Guy from the right side look like Shqiptar Haradinaj

https://gdb.rferl.org/11DE5F5C-46EC-41B7-85FF-2A07B2F057F1_w1023_r1_s.jpg

Not to mention Armenian Gangs.

But there are also Armenians that look "close" to us due to mixing with Europeans through History. But even those "close" group of people cannot pass as Europeans or something like "Honorary European" that will never exist. They are what they are, why would i want to be something im not? If i accept them as White Europeans, then i have to accept a Turks with Armenian/Anatolian origin, Ashkenazi Jews and Shqiptars as White Europeans too, which i will never do in my life.

[Armenian Bishop]

This topic is too sensitive, so i'll write from my part of view.

Ethnic Armenian with originaly Armenian phenotype (Armenoid).

https://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy91/nt_1488/clasificacion/dinaridarmenoidarmenoidedinaricohithereasternracea rmenidarmenidonexidnexidorazanexida.jpg


I've never encountered any Armenians with a head shape like the guy in that photograph. It's a terrible example, and an insult. I could say more about your misunderstood ideas and bigotry, but I'll just leave it at that.

[Frowning Man]

This topic is too sensitive, so i'll write from my part of view.

Ethnic Armenian with originaly Armenian phenotype (Armenoid).

https://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy91/nt_1488/clasificacion/dinaridarmenoidarmenoidedinaricohithereasternracea rmenidarmenidonexidnexidorazanexida.jpg


Excuse me, of course, but this example is sheer nonsense. Who even said that this is a primordially Armenian phenotype? You have specially selected the strangest example.
I have seen a lot of Armenians, much more than you, but I have never seen such a thing. Although it is true, Armenians are very different even from other peoples of the Caucasus.

[Asten]

This topic is too sensitive, so i'll write from my part of view.

Ethnic Armenian with originaly Armenian phenotype (Armenoid).

https://i781.photobucket.com/albums/yy91/nt_1488/clasificacion/dinaridarmenoidarmenoidedinaricohithereasternracea rmenidarmenidonexidnexidorazanexida.jpg

On this photo, they look Semitic.

https://www.panorama.am/news_images/519/1554189_2/f56fc03d9cd7b0_56fc03d9cd7ee.thumb.jpg

Guy from the right side look like Shqiptar Haradinaj

https://gdb.rferl.org/11DE5F5C-46EC-41B7-85FF-2A07B2F057F1_w1023_r1_s.jpg

Not to mention Armenian Gangs.

But there are also Armenians that look "close" to us due to mixing with Europeans through History. But even those "close" group of people cannot pass as Europeans or something like "Honorary European" that will never exist. They are what they are, why would i want to be something im not? If i accept them as White Europeans, then i have to accept a Turks with Armenian/Anatolian origin, Ashkenazi Jews and Shqiptars as White Europeans too, which i will never do in my life.

The resemblance with Ramush Haradinaj is minor.

[Слога]

I've never encountered any Armenians with a head shape like the guy in that photograph. It's a terrible example, and an insult. I could say more about your misunderstood ideas and bigotry, but I'll just leave it at that.


Excuse me, of course, but this example is sheer nonsense. Who even said that this is a primordially Armenian phenotype? You have specially selected the strangest example.
I have seen a lot of Armenians, much more than you, but I have never seen such a thing. Although it is true, Armenians are very different even from other peoples of the Caucasus.

You're both right, that wasn't right example. I found out that the person from the photo was ill, and that's why his head shape is different than on normal person.

[placebo]

Armenians are honorary Europeans by their Christian culture and religion.

MENA Muslims (Arabs, Turks, Iranians, Pakistanis etc) should not be jealous about that fact and should mind their own bussiness.
There are no closer nations to Europeans than Georgians and Armenians.

jealous? lol. what exactly does it matter to be white? and also op talking about physical appereance not culture, religion etc.

if we talking about physical appereance and genetics sorry dude middle eastern muslim turk closer to you than your armenian brother. (both not closer)

[Altaylı]

Many Turks don`t care whiteness in real life
honestly almost all of my Turkish friends want to look like central asians tatars siberians not europeans or they don`t care race
generally Turkish people are proud with their heritage and ancestors

btw definitely Armenians are not white Armenians have too much southwestern asian(arabic) component in their genetics
if armenians are white some arabs are white too.

[CommonSense]

Armenians are generally an ethncity people aren't too familiar with. Most people only know that they're christians, that they were persecuted by Turks and that they're culturally close to Europeans. I suppose comparing their culture/religion the Turks, who are much more foreign to Europeans in that aspect, leads people to think that Armenians must also be phenotypically closer to Europeans.

[Hektor12]

Armenians are generally an ethncity people aren't too familiar with. Most people only know that they're christians, that they were persecuted by Turks and that they're culturally close to Europeans. I suppose comparing their culture/religion the Turks, who are much more foreign to Europeans in that aspect, leads people to think that Armenians must also be phenotypically closer to Europeans.Good point except underlined part. Religion, ok but culture aspect isnt foreign at all, and i can say that some places in Europe (thrace-balkan) are culturally very similar aand this extends through central Europ at some degree. This comes from both Ottoman heritage in the area and balkan heritage in Turkey.

On the other hand, armenians have as much in common with Europeans as a christian Mongolian would have; Rus language and an eastern church.

[FinalFlash]

Good point except underlined part. Religion, ok but culture aspect isnt foreign at all, and i can say that some places in Europe (thrace-balkan) are culturally very similar aand this extends through central Europ at some degree. This comes from both Ottoman heritage in the area and balkan heritage in Turkey.

On the other hand, armenians have as much in common with Europeans as a christian Mongolian would have; Rus language and an eastern church.

lol

[Thracian]

Anatolian, not assimilated Balkanites or Circassians. Like Armenians, they had their fair share of lighter and swarthier individuals.

Who are those assimilated Balkanites? Muslim Serbs and Albanians?

[GoalPoacher]

Still discussing guys?

My honest opinion is that even without taking religion and politics into account, Armenians can be still considered "whiter" than us due to being fully Caucasoid. I think ethnic Turks' affinity to Central Asia is usually overlooked in anthro forums. The most exotic Armenians look Middle Eastern which is still in Caucasoid range, while we have lots of these types:

https://bingeddata.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2020/12/hazal-filiz-kucukkose.jpg
https://i.kanald.com.tr/i/kanald/70/800x0/59638561e50aa9282095dbd5.png
https://kostorage.blob.core.windows.net/img/firat-albayram-ko1-jpg-ec0c1a72f61d41011bb7951f16187273.jpg
https://foto.haberler.com/haber/2013/01/30/irfan-basaran-yuvaya-dondu-4289718_o.jpg
https://www.cumhuriyet.com.tr/Archive/2021/4/21/114327923-melisasli.png

[Frowning Man]

In my understanding, white is someone who has white skin and, in addition, if he has light eyes and hair. And it doesn't matter who you are - a Turk, Kurd, Italian, German or Armenian.
I don't really understand what culture or religion has to do with it.

[Слога]

In my understanding, white is someone who has white skin and, in addition, if he has light eyes and hair. And it doesn't matter who you are - a Turk, Kurd, Italian, German or Armenian.
I don't really understand what culture or religion has to do with it.

White European is a person of fully European origin. White or correctly saying European male can have Blonde, Brown or Dark-Brown hair, it depends on regions of Europe. Also White male can have Brown, Blue eyes and other variants near those two. Europeans can have pale to as i call it darker skin (not black) again, it depends on regions of Europe.

Your definition is wrong and ignorant with the fact that blonde hair and blue eyes are not the "special key" to recognizing Europeans.

Blonde hair and Blue eyes, is that really gonna make him look European?

https://pp.userapi.com/c10246/u7325649/113409717/x_c6f448bf.jpg

Dark hair, hazel eyes, but yet he is European

https://www.kurir.rs/data/images/2016/01/26/14/832035_novak-djokovic-tri-prsta-melburn_ls.jpg

So im gonna repeat it again, a European person fully European origin, which all do respect Armenians and you Georgians are not.

[Armenian Bishop]

White European is a person of fully European origin. White or correctly saying European male can have Blonde, Brown or Dark-Brown hair, it depends on regions of Europe. Also White male can have Brown, Blue eyes and other variants near those two. Europeans can have pale to as i call it darker skin (not black) again, it depends on regions of Europe.

Your definition is wrong and ignorant with the fact that blonde hair and blue eyes are not the "special key" to recognizing Europeans.

Blonde hair and Blue eyes, is that really gonna make him look European?

...


So im gonna repeat it again, a European person fully European origin, which all do respect Armenians and you Georgians are not.

You, and others keep equating "White" with a European origin, but there isn't a consensus of viewpoints that support that viewpoint. In the first place, the U.S. Census System doesn't agree.

[Frowning Man]

White European is a person of fully European origin. White or correctly saying European male can have Blonde, Brown or Dark-Brown hair, it depends on regions of Europe. Also White male can have Brown, Blue eyes and other variants near those two. Europeans can have pale to as i call it darker skin (not black) again, it depends on regions of Europe.

Your definition is wrong and ignorant with the fact that blonde hair and blue eyes are not the "special key" to recognizing Europeans.

Blonde hair and Blue eyes, is that really gonna make him look European?

Dark hair, hazel eyes, but yet he is European



So im gonna repeat it again, a European person fully European origin, which all do respect Armenians and you Georgians are not.

A white person is just a white person. White means that the person has light pigmentation (for example, white skin). It's just human pigmentation. White = / = European. White is not the property of Europeans, and other peoples (not European) have fair skin, eyes or hair not from Europeans.

If an Armenian, an Iranian, a Turk or someone else has a light or very light pigmentation and do not have European blood at all, then yes, they are also white for me, since you cannot call them black or brown in such a situation.

I have never said anywhere that I consider or want to consider Georgians as Europeans. Georgians are not Europeans, we are Georgians and we are Caucasians, we are mountaineers.
Whether we are considered Europeans or not, I don't care. The main thing I consider myself a Georgian and a resident of the Caucasus.

[DarkSecret]

A white person is just a white person. White means that the person has light pigmentation (for example, white skin). It's just human pigmentation. White = / = European. White is not the property of Europeans, and other peoples (not European) have fair skin, eyes or hair not from Europeans.

If an Armenian, an Iranian, a Turk or someone else has a light or very light pigmentation and do not have European blood at all, then yes, they are also white for me, since you cannot call them black or brown in such a situation.

I have never said anywhere that I consider or want to consider Georgians as Europeans. Georgians are not Europeans, we are Georgians and we are Caucasians, we are mountaineers.
Whether we are considered Europeans or not, I don't care. The main thing I consider myself a Georgian and a resident of the Caucasus.

But in this case, Japanese and Chinese would be white too. I would say white=Europid. Not every European is Europid just like not every Turk-Armenian-Georgian non-Europid. There are many dark Europeans and they are considered white. I would say Armenians have darker pigmentation but they are also in Europe partly, albeit controversial like Turkey and Georgia. Part of the Caucasus is in Europe. So they are peoples who had interaction with whites or had Europid ancient peoples who had lived there.

I was never considered a "visible minority" in Canada. I am treated as a white European in Canada which is not good because whites have less rights in Canada. Lol.

[black hole]

In the first place, the U.S. Census System doesn't agree.


The whole US system is retard and idiotic.

[Stranger Things]

I think it depends on a wide variety of factors. Despite whatever Ancestry DNA or 23andme groups them as, Armenia is objectively not located in the Middle East and Armenians are objectively not Middle Easterners by heritage. Historically-speaking they originated around lake Van and Ararat, slightly below the modern Caucasus region. They basically are a mix of native Anatolian and Caucasian tribes and Indo-European migrants.

Armenians dna is mostly R1b, J2, G, and J1. R1b is most prevalent in western Europe, although probably originated somewhere in the Pontic steppes or the Caucasus. J2 is most prevalent in Anatolia, the Caucasus, the Levant, and southern Europe (Turkey, southern Russia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Albania, Greece, southern Italy, etc). G is primarily from the Caucasus and is found at its highest rate among Georgians. And J1 is most prevalent in the Arabian Peninsula, among Saudis, Kuwaitis, Omanis, Yemenis, etc. These are the haplogroups most prevalent among Armenians, so it looks like they are pretty equally related to people of Anatolia, the Levant, the Caucasus, and western/southern Europe, and they are marginally related to people of the Arabian Peninsula and North Africa. Surprisingly, they don't have a large genetic affiliation with eastern Europeans, despite having close contact with Slavic people for centuries.

So are Armenians white? I guess you can say either yes or no, depending on the individual. Since “whiteness" has nothing to do with science and is a social construct, then some Armenians would be perceived as white, while others wouldn't. At the end of the day, does it really even matter?

[Pine]

I think it depends on a wide variety of factors. Despite whatever Ancestry DNA or 23andme groups them as, Armenia is objectively not located in the Middle East and Armenians are objectively not Middle Easterners by heritage. Historically-speaking they originated around lake Van and Ararat, slightly below the modern Caucasus region. They basically are a mix of native Anatolian and Caucasian tribes and Indo-European migrants.

Armenians dna is mostly R1b, J2, G, and J1. R1b is most prevalent in western Europe, although probably originated somewhere in the Pontic steppes or the Caucasus. J2 is most prevalent in Anatolia, the Caucasus, the Levant, and southern Europe (Turkey, southern Russia, Georgia, Azerbaijan, Armenia, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Albania, Greece, southern Italy, etc). G is primarily from the Caucasus and is found at its highest rate among Georgians. And J1 is most prevalent in the Arabian Peninsula, among Saudis, Kuwaitis, Omanis, Yemenis, etc. These are the haplogroups most prevalent among Armenians, so it looks like they are pretty equally related to people of Anatolia, the Levant, the Caucasus, and western/southern Europe, and they are marginally related to people of the Arabian Peninsula and North Africa. Surprisingly, they don't have a large genetic affiliation with eastern Europeans, despite having close contact with Slavic people for centuries.

So are Armenians white? I guess you can say either yes or no, depending on the individual. Since “whiteness" has nothing to do with science and is a social construct, then some Armenians would be perceived as white, while others wouldn't. At the end of the day, does it really even matter?

You changed your view twice within the same rant.

[jfgh676]

Armenoid people are white . They can walk ,in netherlands,austria or ireland and no one will bat an eye

[DarkSecret]

Armenoid people are white . They can walk ,in netherlands,austria or ireland and no one will bat an eye

If Armenians are white, definitely not the Armenoid ones. I hope you are just trolling.

[Pine]

Some Turks are white (effectively Balkan).
No Armenians are white.

[oszkar07]

Some Turks are white (effectively Balkan).
No Armenians are white.

https://armenianweekly.com/2019/11/05/mma-fighters-shahbazyan-chookagian-shine-at-ufc-244/

I think Edmond Shahbazyan looks somewhat white.

I have met several Armenian females who could pass easily in Europe.
I have met a few Armenian males who also could.

I mostly agree with what Stranger Things posted, to some degree the concept of white is a construct that is not necessarily consistant. Some view white as purely related to people from the continent of Europe, others can see white in the context of skin colour, hair/eye colour etc.
There are some Europeans whom are much swarthier than Edmond.
I think one of the theories of Armenian origins is the idea that they may have originated somewhere in the East Balkans ...possibly around Macedonia region ...I think this theory may connect them to the Pelasgians.

Anyway it doesnt really matter, Armenians are significantly Caucasus like genetically with some other shifts eg Assyrian ish like. They are a very old population whom given there small population have contributed a lot to the world. Many of the top architects in Ottoman empire were Armenians.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Are christian Syrians white people?

These are all subjective concepts but just by using common sense it is pretty hard to argue that they are white unless you consider all caucasoids as "white". It is a matter of criteria, but let's be realistic about it...

If we consider them a white people as a whole then where it stops? Iran, Pakistan? Most Syrians, christian or not, have clearly middle eastern phenotypes (Syrid, Orientalid, Armenoid, Arabid etc) and many are not even naturally light skinned (Wich for me is essential to be considered white or else it just does not make any sense the term), so I don't understand how can someone possibly view them as a white group, nevertheless there's no doubt a minority with European (mostly East Med, Litorid or Dinaro-Med phenotypes) and are white looking/passing. But we are talking about as a group not a minority among it.

Search for group pics of christian Syrians and then tell me about it.

[викторслава]

armenians are not white, they descended from the ancient urartu civilization

[Super Mario]

Some Turks are white (effectively Balkan).
No Armenians are white.

Because they’re not true Turks.

The true Turks are West Asian+Central Asian Turkic.

[DarkSecret]

Because they’re not true Turks.

The true Turks are West Asian+Central Asian Turkic.

As if you are true Canadian? Wtf? They are Turks living in Turkey = Turkish citizens = Turks = Anatalion peoples = Turkey's peoples.

[Dr_Maul]

No population in West Asia is truly white, except maybe Aegean and Balkan Turks who aren't even West Asian really. The rest have a minority (sometimes plurality) of white looking people, but not near majority most of the time

[Pine]

https://armenianweekly.com/2019/11/05/mma-fighters-shahbazyan-chookagian-shine-at-ufc-244/

I think Edmond Shahbazyan looks somewhat white.

I have met several Armenian females who could pass easily in Europe.
I have met a few Armenian males who also could.

I mostly agree with what Stranger Things posted, to some degree the concept of white is a construct that is not necessarily consistant. Some view white as purely related to people from the continent of Europe, others can see white in the context of skin colour, hair/eye colour etc.
There are some Europeans whom are much swarthier than Edmond.
I think one of the theories of Armenian origins is the idea that they may have originated somewhere in the East Balkans ...possibly around Macedonia region ...I think this theory may connect them to the Pelasgians.

Anyway it doesnt really matter, Armenians are significantly Caucasus like genetically with some other shifts eg Assyrian ish like. They are a very old population whom given there small population have contributed a lot to the world. Many of the top architects in Ottoman empire were Armenians.

I don't care about phenotypes.