Saturated Fats: They Really Are Healthy!

[Frigga]

Most people hear the phrase "saturated fat" and cringe with loathing. They conjure up a picture of morbidly obese people packing away spoonful after spoonful of cholesterol laden, lard inducing butter, and playing Russian roulette with coronary heart diease, and stroke, and diabieties. They have been told for their whole lives that if they want to live long, healthy lives, they need to eat margarine instead of butter, and to fry their foods in corn oil, or soybean oil, and to cut the fat off of their fatty cuts of meat. And that they need to drink skim milk, because dairy fat is the biggest culprit of heart diease.

I feel a great deal of sympathy for anyone who has bought into this lie.

If mankind was truly unfit to eat butter, egg yolks, fatty steaks, juicy bacon, coconut oil, and other saturated fats in the world, then here's a interesting fact: We would not have survived to the point in history that we're at now, as we as hunters and gatherers would have keeled over from clogged arteries, many thousands of years ago, as the paleolithic diet was rich in saturated animal fats. Our agricultural ancestors would not have been able to evolve to the point that they did, because all of the milk, cheese, and butter would have been poisoning them with such harmful compounds found in the saturated fats. If we were meant to eat polyunsaturated fats as our primary source of fats, we would have evolved with them. But, where is the historical context of using corn oil, or soybean oil, or cotton oil, or hydrogenated oils? There is none. These are modern oils. They are the children of the Industrial Revolution.

Saturated fats are very stable, healthy fats. They are solid at room temperature, and do not go rancid very easily. Rancid fats are toxic to the body, as they promote free radicals. Examples of stable fats are butter, lard, tallow, goose fat, coconut oil, and palm oil. These fats are all very saturated, and are firm at room temperature. They are also very easy to produce. Butter easily comes from the cow. Cream rises to the top of the milk, and after churning, creates butter. Many cultures around the world revere butter. The Swiss, Indian, and Masai are the three distinctly different cultures from around the world that worship butter. Why would these three different cultures all revere, and worship a substance that modern medicine deems as a poison? The rest of the animal fats come from when the animal is slaughtered. Rendering the raw animal fat creates tallow from beef, lard from pork, and so on. Coconut oil is processed from coconuts, and is an easy process. Traditionally, coconut milk is expressed from freshly harvested coconuts, and allowed to ferment. The oil naturally separates from the water. These are historically healthy fats that have been eaten, and enjoyed by mankind for millennia, documented by historians.

Modern monounsaturated, and polyunsaturated fats, with the exception of olive oil, are not stable, healthy fats. They are prone to rancidity. That promotes free radicals in our bodies, which can promote cancer. The extraction process for these oils are also highly damaging. They are exposed to extremely high heats, which breaks down the oils, and causes them to spoil. They then have to be deodorized. Here's the process for the production of margarine as quoted from The Whole Soy Story, by Kaayla T. Daniel, PhD, CCN, page 107:


Hydrogenation begins with a cheap oil derived from corn or soybeans, one that is already probably rancid from the process of extraction. It is mixed with a catalyst - usually nickel oxide - then blasted with hydrogen gas in a reactor under conditions of intense pressure, and temperatures as high as 400 degress F. Although this chansges the oil into the desired solid or partially solid state, the lumpy consistency, foul smell and dirty-gray appearance require further processing. Accordingly, soap-like emulsifiers and starch are mixed in, followed by a high temperature steam cleaning, bleaching, dyeing, and flavoring. The spanking fresh product is then compressed into the sticks, bars, or tubs that will be sold at the market. Although the words "hydrogenated" and "partially hydrogenated" tend to be used interchangeably, partially hydrogenated is the correct term. Fully hydrogenated soybean oil would be as hard as wax.

I don't know about you, but that makes me nauseated just thinking about that!

You have a choice in this world. You can believe what the mainstream tells you, or you can question it. I choose to question what big money, big business and big media tells me is healthy, and good for my body. Because truly healthy foods, and fats, don't make big business a lot of money. But hydrogenation and other processing procedures make billions for these companies every year. I remember a quote that said that I'd rather trust my cow, then a room full of mad scienctists with my butter. I have to say that I agree with them.

Here are some links to websites written by those who are more knowlegdeable then myself, and are able to clarify anything I muddled, or fill in the gaps I made unintentionally:

http://westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/oiling.html

http://thewholesoystory.com

http://www.tropicaltraditions.com

:)

[Loki]

I have never bought this lie. I eat what my body tells me I need: Dairy products (including full fat milk and real butter), eggs, bacon, beef, other meat, and other things considered taboo by modern diet standards. Never liked margarine, I always opt for real butter, salted. :thumbs up

[Jamt]

No need for salted stuff to be Stone-Age-Traditional.
Stay away from salt and keep heart ok.

[Loddfafner]

I am searching the medical literature to find a study that will assure me that large quantities of whiskey are healthier than brussels sprouts.

[Loki]

No need for salted stuff to be Stone-Age-Traditional.
Stay away from salt and keep heart ok.

See this thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3334) for some good reasons to eat salt. Your body needs it.

[Loki]

I am searching the medical literature to find a study that will assure me that large quantities of whiskey are healthier than brussels sprouts.

It most probably is ... :wink

[Jamt]

It most probably is ... :wink

The “take it easy on salt” manage to prolong life 10-20 years.
Salt is not stoneage.

[Loki]

The “take it easy on salt” manage to prolong life 10-20 years.
Salt is not stoneage.

I'm not sure I want to live that long. The last 8 years have been hell.

[Frigga]

The “take it easy on salt” manage to prolong life 10-20 years.
Salt is not stoneage.

Umm, actually, it is. Human beings naturally crave salt, along with all other creatures, especially hebivores. They will suffer any hardship to frequent a salt source. As I stated in the iodine deficiency thread, it's refined salt that is to be avoided.

[Frigga]

As always, I forgot to add something to my intial post. :rolleyes:

Your body's need for saturated fats is so great, that if you do not take in enough of it, your body will manufacture it. Most people in our modern age are afraid of fat, and will not have a single gram of it if they can avoid it. Your body will then start to not only crave fats, which is suppressed by willpower, but it will also crave carbohydrates. Your body is able to synthesize saturated fats from carbohydrates if you don't eat your fat. But you need saturated fats in your diet, and cholesterol, as well as all of the fat soluble vitamins and minerals that are in these foods. They are so important to our life. Our brain is over half saturated fatty acids, and cholesterol, along with the walls of every single one of our cells. If we starve our bodies of the fats we need, our brain's functions are the first to go. We lose our lucidity. And we lose our joy of life.

Makes you want to eat a nice big plate of sausage and eggs, with buttery toast, huh? :D

[anonymaus]

As one who finds cardiovascular exercise dreadfully boring, I use ketosis (popularly known through the Atkins process) to keep myself as lean as is healthy--counter-intuitively, this requires eating quite a lot of lipids, and saturated fats make up a sizable portion of the diet.

I never feel healthier than when I eat on that diet and the high quality fats, saturated among them, are largely responsible for much of that. The other part is the stable blood-glucose caused by the lack of carbs (10% dietary intake maximum) and the glut of protein (30%+), but that is straying from the delightful fats :D

[Tabiti]

Your body needs fats to fight with fats, that cause you problems. Fact!
Eating eggs and higher levels of bad cholesterol don't have tight connection, even the lecitin in eggs helps against LDL.
I tend to eat more unsaturated fats, like extra virgin olive oil, but don't forget about milk and butter, but I look not to mess the both types on one meal.
The only fats I suggest you never to use are palm and cocconut oil, and margarine. Margarine is one of the most unhealthy foods you can imagine. Salami are the same...
White sugar also causes cholesterol problems.

P.S. My observations told me that LDL higher levels may be genetic. I know a woman, very slim and fit looking, being is on a diet for years - no meat, milk, eggs, oil and whatever you can imagine and she still has very high LDL.
My grandmother has over 7 mmol/L that can be fatal, but she is one of the biggest gluttons I know, however she is not overweight at all.

[Treffie]

As one who finds cardiovascular exercise dreadfully boring, I use ketosis (popularly known through the Atkins process) to keep myself as lean as is healthy--counter-intuitively, this requires eating quite a lot of lipids, and saturated fats make up a sizable portion of the diet.

I never feel healthier than when I eat on that diet and the high quality fats, saturated among them, are largely responsible for much of that. The other part is the stable blood-glucose caused by the lack of carbs (10% dietary intake maximum) and the glut of protein (30%+), but that is straying from the delightful fats :D

I'm interested in what you're saying, but I'm wary of following the Atkins method. One friend of mine told me that he used to get bursts of energy but then after this was completely worn out for the remainder of the time. In fact he compared himself to a big cat during and after a hunt.:)

[Tabiti]

Atkins seems much better than the new, trendy Dukan method, according to which you exclude all fats and take only pure proteins. Proteins in nature are usually linked with fats for their better assimilation (fats in milk, meat, yolk).

[Freomæg]

Good thread Frigga'sSpindle. I fully agree that fats are vital. In fact, I believe that the market has long manipulated our understanding of nutrition in order to sell products.

However, I'd like to point out that a limited amount of saturated fats/cholesterol is still probably a good thing. There is this perception that our hunter-gatherer ancestors ate unlimited amounts of animal protein and fat and were healthier than we are. While I've no doubt they were healthier than we are, I do doubt that they ate as much meat as we popularly perceive them to have. Their huge energy exertion in finding food far outweighs ours today. The fatty acids are vital to our wellbeing, but saturated fats are a double edged sword and without limitation, or copious amounts of physical activity, we'd still be overcome by excess bad cholesterol.

I'm vegan myself and I have to make a conscious effort to consume plenty of good fats. It's not difficult when you know where to find them and I find fats preferable to enormous amounts of carbohydrates. So I eat lots of nuts, seeds, avocados and other foods rich in good fats.


Umm, actually, it is. Human beings naturally crave salt, along with all other creatures, especially hebivores. They will suffer any hardship to frequent a salt source. As I stated in the iodine deficiency thread, it's refined salt that is to be avoided.
Most diets include enough food that contains salt naturally, so it's unnecessary to add salt to anything - particularly refined salts, as you say.

[Tabiti]

Good thread Frigga'sSpindle. I fully agree that fats are vital. In fact, I believe that the market has long manipulated our understanding of nutrition in order to sell products.


You are absolutely right. 90% of the dietic sections in supermarkets contain just more expensive junk food - artificial foods, rich of bad carbohydrates, aspartame, preservatives and various known and unknown supplements. Main problem is that people seem to be still very ignorant about food nutrition, spend a fortune for "dietic" products. In the end, they got depressed because the lack of results and abandon "healthy" food idea.
For instance, here diets are very popular lately and most girls tend to buy Activia product of Danone listed as "healthy", because it's bacteries. In fact, these lacto bacteries can be even called "our national invention" since there are big amounts of them in natural yoghourt. But as a big world concern, Danone, famous for their artificial milks, added some musli, sugar, fruits and other tasty stuff, so their Activia became one of the most famous dietic products. It's tasty, yes, very tasty, but just JUNK FOOD and that is not the problem, but the next female wondering "WOW, this contains sugar???". The conclusion is always to read the labels carefully, even the products is listened as "healthy" and "dietic". Reading books of good authors also helps, not Cosmopolitan and lady's magazines "wonder diets" and reciples.

[Frigga]

Weston Price studied several indigenous cultures throughout the world. Many of these cultures highly prized saturated fats. When our hunter-gatherer ancestors selected an animal during the hunt, the animal they always tried to single out was a mature, male animal in his prime. This animal would have a large amount of fat along his back, reserved from several years of good grazing. When this animal was claimed, they would render the fat from the animal, and wouldn't waste any of it. Then they would dry their meat. When they would eat the dried meat, they would slather the meat pieces with the rendered fat, as they knew that eating lean protein would make them ill.

The traditional Swiss diet is mostly saturated fats, as documented by Weston Price. In 1931 and 1932, he traveled to the Loetschental Valley, which for centuries had been isolated from the rest of the world due to it's inaccessablity. They provided for themselves completely there, except for sea salt, which was brought in. Weston Price was amazed at the vibrancy, good nature, and vitality of the Swiss people in this valley. He commented on the lack of oral hygiene, as these people never brushed their teeth, but they had no cavities. The children were playing barefoot, and running through streams in weather which had Mr and Mrs Price bundled up in heavy overcoats. They did not have tuberculosis, one of the worst dieases of the age. What were they eating? Well, they grew rye in the valley, as it was hardy enough for the short growing season, and they raised dairy cows. Meat was eaten once a week. What was usually eaten was a slice of naturally leaven, ie sourdough leavened, which is lacto-fermentated bread, which was very coarse, and hearty, and nourishing, and a thick slice of summer cheese, made when the cows were grazing on fresh, fast growing grass, and milk. Their athletes were of the highest caliber, and before competions, they would drink bowlfuls of raw cream. This diet is one of the highest in saturated fats in the world, and they thrived on it.

Most of the indigenous cultures of the world revered saturated fats. In Indonesia, it's coconut oil, and palm oil. There's good reason. Coconut oil is a highly saturated fat. It has medium chain fatty acids, and they are never stored. In fact, they are immediately ulitilized as energy. It also conditions the thyroid, and strengthens it, and if it is slow, speeds it up. When my mom was diagnosed with Grave's diease, an autoimmune disorder which sped up her thyriod, her naturopathic doctor told her to not eat any coconut oil until she was in remission, as her thyroid was already working overtime because of her diease. Coconut oil also has antifungal, antimicrobial properties. It also has lauric acid, which is very important. The only other source I know of in nature is in mother's milk. So, if you are a mother, and are unable to nurse your baby for whatever reason, homemade formula must have some coconut oil in it for these good properties.

If you are vegan, I do strongly suggest at least the comsumption of raw butter, as it has so many healing properties. If you still feel like I'm full of it, (it's okay, I understand! ;)) then I suggest that you research coconut oil.

Also, cholesterol is not unhealthy. Cholesterol is incredibly important for our health, and vitality, and lucidity. Our bodies even recycle cholesterol, as it knows better then we do how important it is. Our bodies don't want to waste a single bit of cholesterol.

Here is a link to a whole list of articles on the Weston Price Foundations website. There are too many to link to individually. If anyone has any questions, feel free to pm me.

http://www.westonaprice.org/knowyourfats/index.html

This is about coconut oil:

http://tropicaltraditions.com

:)

[YggsVinr]

However, I'd like to point out that a limited amount of saturated fats/cholesterol is still probably a good thing. There is this perception that our hunter-gatherer ancestors ate unlimited amounts of animal protein and fat and were healthier than we are. While I've no doubt they were healthier than we are, I do doubt that they ate as much meat as we popularly perceive them to have. Their huge energy exertion in finding food far outweighs ours today. The fatty acids are vital to our wellbeing, but saturated fats are a double edged sword and without limitation, or copious amounts of physical activity, we'd still be overcome by excess bad cholesterol.


What should also be pointed out is that the meat our hunter-gatherer ancestors ate was actually very low in saturated fat and high polyunsaturated fat and other fatty acids particularly monounsaturated and the infamous Omegas. Saturated fat is more common in domesticated animals whereas game animals do not produce high levels of it. Basically, if you're going to eat a lot of domesticated meat, as I'm sure most of us do, then try to balance it out with a bit of fish and/or game meat like moose, elk, deer etc.

I should add that I understand that in Europe game meat probably isn't as readily available as here in Canada, but there's always fish.

And another edit, to me there seems to be two extremes as far as the whole "good fat vs. bad fat" argument is concerned. One side condemns saturated fat entirely while the other claims it far better than fatty acids. To me neither seems logical, and I have to say the latter's take on the hunter-gatherer diet seems a little over done. It just doesn't seem likely at all that their diets were as high in saturated fat as is claimed in the OP. Particularly when you consider how big a role fish has played in the more northerly climes, not to mention goat milk.

[Frigga]

What should also be pointed out is that the meat our hunter-gatherer ancestors ate was actually very low in saturated fat and high polyunsaturated fat and other fatty acids particularly monounsaturated and the infamous Omegas. Saturated fat is more common in domesticated animals whereas game animals do not produce high levels of it. Basically, if you're going to eat a lot of domesticated meat, as I'm sure most of us do, then try to balance it out with a bit of fish and/or game meat like moose, elk, deer etc.

I should add that I understand that in Europe game meat probably isn't as readily available as here in Canada, but there's always fish.

And another edit, to me there seems to be two extremes as far as the whole "good fat vs. bad fat" argument is concerned. One side condemns saturated fat entirely while the other claims it far better than fatty acids. To me neither seems logical, and I have to say the latter's take on the hunter-gatherer diet seems a little over done. It just doesn't seem likely at all that their diets were as high in saturated fat as is claimed in the OP. Particularly when you consider how big a role fish has played in the more northerly climes, not to mention goat milk.


Actually, whether or not a ruminant animal is wild or domesicated, they will still have a lot of saturated fats in their bodies, because they have protozoa in their gut that very efficiently saturates the oils in the grass seeds they eat.


Was the cave man diet simply rich in unsaturated fats, but low in saturated fats? Antelope and caribou fat is over 50% saturated-about the same as beef-and mountain sheep fat would be the similar. Buffalo fat is 56% saturated-more saturated than beef! All ruminant animals contain lots of saturated fat because the protozoa in their capacious guts do an efficient job of saturating the oils found in plant foods-whether these oils come from dried hay or green grass, from feedlot corn or the ripe grains of prairie grasses. (Of course naturally-fed meat is richer in vitamins and minerals.) The bison were hunted in the late Summer and Fall when their fat stores would have been highest. Grazing animals spend several months eating the carbohydrate-rich seeds of wild grasses, which begin to ripen as early as the month of May-grain fattening in feedlots merely mimics this natural process.

Camel fat, from the kind of animal the Neanderthals apparently hunted to extinction, is a whooping 63% saturated! Wild boar fat is about 41% saturated, exactly the same as lard from a domestic pig. Kidney fat-which modern man avoids but which the cave man would have eaten-is highly saturated. Buffalo kidney fat is 58% saturated, antelope kidney fat is 65% saturated, elk kidney fat is 62% saturated and mountain goat kidney fat is 66 % saturated. Caribou marrow has a preponderance of monounsaturated fat, and a small amount of polyunsaturated, but still contains more than 27% saturated fat. Figures for elephant tongue are unavailable but beef tongue is 45% saturated. Bears, which yield 48% of their kilocalories as fat, have a preponderance of monounsaturated fat, the same kind found in olives, almonds and other nuts.




Here is the whole article. It's about what cavemen would have eaten, and it discusses two different schools of thought.

http://westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/caveman_cuisine.html

[Atlas]

See this thread (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3334) for some good reasons to eat salt. Your body needs it.

My English teacher told me 10 years ago that when you were visiting grandcanyon in the US of course, you were asked to eat a small block of salt in order not to dehydrate too much in the hot desert, is this true fellow Americans ?

[YggsVinr]

Actually, whether or not a ruminant animal is wild or domesicated, they will still have a lot of saturated fats in their bodies, because they have protozoa in their gut that very efficiently saturates the oils in the grass seeds they eat.

Here is the whole article. It's about what cavemen would have eaten, and it discusses two different schools of thought.

http://westonaprice.org/traditional_diets/caveman_cuisine.html

I don't know, I'm a little skeptical about this article the author seems to be manipulating the percentages of saturated fat slightly for the benefit of trying to prove his point. The only reason I say this is because his numbers seem to contradict most other material I've read on the matter that place f.ex. raw Buffalo meat at 43% Saturated and nearly 57% Unsaturated, raw Moose meat at 36% Saturated and approximately 63% Unsaturated and so on not to mention that when comparing it to beef the beef contains only about as high as 4% polyunsaturated fat. Game meat like Elk or Moose are at nearly 25% and 40% respectively for polyunsaturated fat. He mentions how the Inuit and other Native American tribes thrived on fish, yet doesn't seem to mention that the saturated fat in fish is typically less than half the unsaturated fat percentage.

My point wasn't that game meat doesn't possess saturated fat, but that compared with unsaturated fat was relatively low. My point wasn't, either, that saturated fat is bad as is often claimed, but rather that balancing it with meat the contains higher levels of unsaturated rather than saturated fat is healthier. That doesn't mean we eliminate all saturated fat from our diets, which would actually be nearly impossible anyway.

[Frigga]

Actually, it's two hers. :) The article was written by Sally Fallon, the president of The Weston A. Price Foundation, and Mary G. Enig, PhD. I trust what these women have to say. Mary Enig's research from the 1970's was about trans fats. She lost all of her funding because she would not stop her research about these false, damaging fats, and then trying to tell people that trans fats were so detrimental to the body. It is because of her research that we now all know of the dangers of trans fats.

I believe that the point of the article was to say that of the fat content of the meats, that a certain percentage of the fat was saturated, not necessarily that the whole content of the meat was a certain percentage of saturated fat. And, yes there are many cultures that did thrive with polyunsaturated fats.

I think that the point I was attempting to show was that saturated fats are more healthy than the mainstream health dictocrats are telling us, and that our bodies' need for these fatty acids is much higher than we realize. Not just because of the fatty acids themselves, but also because of the fat soluble vitamins that they contain, like vitamins A, D, and K2. Vitamin K2 only comes from animals that have been grazing on fresh, fast growing green grass, that grows mostly in the spring, and to a small extent, in the early autumn. Because of these vitamins, that is another reason why these fatty acids are important. Saturated fats also compose most of our cell linings, along with cholesterol, which is why it is folly to be on a fat free diet, like many people I have personal contact with.

I'm glad that you like the thread though! :)

[lei.talk]

...f.ex. raw Buffalo meat...raw Moose meat...and so on...

My point wasn't, either, that saturated fat is bad as is often claimed, but rather that balancing it with meat the contains higher levels of unsaturated rather than saturated fat is healthier.is it healthier
because of the ratio
or because there is less saturated lipids (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid).

are the molecules of unsaturated (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unsaturated_fat) and saturated fats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saturated_fat)
altered by the application of heat
during cooking?

at what temperature
do the molecules cease to be fats (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triglyceride)
and dis-integrate in to other molecules?

how do those molecular fragments differ
from those produced by digestion (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid_anabolism#Digestion_and_transport)
of raw lipids?

knowledge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biochemistry) that exceeds the popular memes
(promulgated by the politicians'/bureaucrats' abuse of statistics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Correlation_does_not_imply_causation))
is essential for these health-choices.