Do you hate Israel?

[Mortimer]

Why do you say that Israel is fascist, it is the other way around.

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[JamesBond007]

I don't say Israel is fascist but it shares somethings in common with it mainly despotism. Israel is a despostic state masquerading as a Western Democracy. It probably has some Democratic features but that does not necessarily make it on par with modern Anglo-Saxon forms of Democracy.

[JamesBond007]

Why do you say that Israel is fascist, it is the other way around.

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Broham, if modern Britain was doing to the Irish what Israel is doing to the Palestinians like Germany, USA , and France would be bankrolling the IRA and the world would support it. It is not a perfect analogy though since Palestinians may be more prone to violence.

[Dick]

I don't say Israel is fascist but it shares somethings in common with it mainly despotism. Israel is a despostic state maquerading as a Wedtern Democracy. It probably has some Democratic features but that does not necessarily make it on par with modern Anglo-Saxon forms of Democracy.

Democracy is nothing more than mob rule where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%

[JamesBond007]

Democracy is nothing more than mob rule where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%



https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ef/d0/a3/efd0a352d98f159e1b2bc4bb5c219f06.jpg


In the United Kingdom, the Alternative Vote referendum also known as the UK-wide referendum on the Parliamentary voting system was a referendum that took place on 5 May 2011, on whether to change the system for electing the House of Commons, the lower house of the national Parliament at Westminster. In the result of a Yes vote, future United Kingdom general elections would have used the "Alternative Vote" (AV); in the event of a No vote, the voting system would remain the same, with the UK continuing to use the "First Past the Post" (FPTP) voting system. The votes cast in the referendum were first counted in each of 440 districts or electoral divisions across the country (the "local counting areas"),[1] which were then combined and declared at a regional level (the regions being the constituent countries of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, and the regions of England).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vot e_referendum#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20Kingdom%2 C%20the,the%20national%20Parliament%20at%20Westmin ster.


Proportional representation (PR) characterizes electoral systems in which divisions in an electorate are reflected proportionately in the elected body.[1] The concept applies mainly to geographical and political divisions of the electorate. For instance in the European parliament, each member state has a number of seats that is (roughly) proportional to its population, enabling geographical proportional representation. Almost all European countries also have political proportional representation (ideological proportional representation to the degree that parties honestly describe their goals): When n% of the electorate support a particular political party or set of candidates as their favorite, then roughly n% of seats are allotted to that party or those candidates.[2] The essence of such systems is that all votes contribute to the result—not just a plurality, or a bare majority. The most prevalent forms of proportional representation all require the use of multiple-member voting districts (also called super-districts), as it is not possible to fill a single seat in a proportional manner. In fact, PR systems that achieve the highest levels of proportionality tend to include districts with large numbers of seats, as large as a province or an entire nation.[3]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

Because I don't trust jews and every personal experience in real life I had with Jews was negative.

[Dick]

https://i.pinimg.com/736x/ef/d0/a3/efd0a352d98f159e1b2bc4bb5c219f06.jpg


In the United Kingdom, the Alternative Vote referendum also known as the UK-wide referendum on the Parliamentary voting system was a referendum that took place on 5 May 2011, on whether to change the system for electing the House of Commons, the lower house of the national Parliament at Westminster. In the result of a Yes vote, future United Kingdom general elections would have used the "Alternative Vote" (AV); in the event of a No vote, the voting system would remain the same, with the UK continuing to use the "First Past the Post" (FPTP) voting system. The votes cast in the referendum were first counted in each of 440 districts or electoral divisions across the country (the "local counting areas"),[1] which were then combined and declared at a regional level (the regions being the constituent countries of Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland, and the regions of England).
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2011_United_Kingdom_Alternative_Vot e_referendum#:~:text=In%20the%20United%20Kingdom%2 C%20the,the%20national%20Parliament%20at%20Westmin ster.


Proportional representation (PR) characterizes electoral systems in which divisions in an electorate are reflected proportionately in the elected body.[1] The concept applies mainly to geographical and political divisions of the electorate. For instance in the European parliament, each member state has a number of seats that is (roughly) proportional to its population, enabling geographical proportional representation. Almost all European countries also have political proportional representation (ideological proportional representation to the degree that parties honestly describe their goals): When n% of the electorate support a particular political party or set of candidates as their favorite, then roughly n% of seats are allotted to that party or those candidates.[2] The essence of such systems is that all votes contribute to the result—not just a plurality, or a bare majority. The most prevalent forms of proportional representation all require the use of multiple-member voting districts (also called super-districts), as it is not possible to fill a single seat in a proportional manner. In fact, PR systems that achieve the highest levels of proportionality tend to include districts with large numbers of seats, as large as a province or an entire nation.[3]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportional_representation

It's just a fake
Make no mistake
A rip off for you
But a rolls for them

- Sham 69

[JamesBond007]

It's just a fake
Make no mistake
A rip off for you
But a rolls for them

- Sham 69


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7xxgRUyzgs0

https://static.timesofisrael.com/www/uploads/2015/08/rivlinnazi.jpg

[XenophobicPrussian]

Democracy is nothing more than mob rule where 51% of the people may take away the rights of the other 49%
Better than 5 over 95.

[Odelia]

I don't say Israel is fascist but it shares somethings in common with it mainly despotism. Israel is a despostic state masquerading as a Western Democracy. It probably has some Democratic features but that does not necessarily make it on par with modern Anglo-Saxon forms of Democracy.
Dude look at the big picture and focus on the context! Israel is in the fucking middle east, surrounded by angry islamist Arabs with many being terrorists that want it wiped off the plant and you're calling it a depostic state? Like wtf...have you looked at Syria, Palestine (under hamas), fuck even Egypt and Iraq? What are they to you, safe havens with democracy and prosperity?! :picard1: White liberals man....y'all just hate israel cos it's white and the surrounding countries are brown victims :bored: Poor Israel and jews...both the far right and far left hate on them and for dumb reasons!

[Italicus]

USS Liberty. The Lavon affair. Johnathan Pollard. The US invaded Iraq for Israel. That's just off the top of my head.

[JamesBond007]

USS Liberty. The Lavon affair. Johnathan Pollard. The US invaded Iraq for Israel. That's just off the top of my head.

The Jew : ethno-state for me and multi-cult miasma for thee !


https://i.postimg.cc/rshkzkz8/Index-Others-Animated-Foreskinner.gif

[JamesBond007]

Dude look at the big picture and focus on the context! Israel is in the fucking middle east, surrounded by angry islamist Arabs with many being terrorists that want it wiped off the plant and you're calling it a depostic state? Like wtf...have you looked at Syria, Palestine (under hamas), fuck even Egypt and Iraq? What are they to you, safe havens with democracy and prosperity?! :picard1: White liberals man....y'all just hate israel cos it's white and the surrounding countries are brown victims :bored: Poor Israel and jews...both the far right and far left hate on them and for dumb reasons!


Yeah, I am looking at the big picture Jews would have been better off in Madagascar. Jews have some irrational attachment to that land in the middle east. Maybe Mizrahi Jews have some genetic ties to the land but not Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews.

Jews just got the British to give them Israel/Palestine and it has been a clusterfuck compared to Madagascar.

[Italicus]

Yeah, I am looking at the big picture Jews would have been better off in Madagascar. Jews have some irrational attachment to that land in the middle east. Maybe Mizrahi Jews have some genetic ties to the land but not Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews.

Jews just got the British to give them Israel/Palestine and it has been a clusterfuck compared to Madagascar.

But Jews are connected to their land, it has been proven by DNA. They are semites.

[Italicus]

The Jew : ethno-state for me and multi-cult miasma for thee !


https://i.postimg.cc/rshkzkz8/Index-Others-Animated-Foreskinner.gif

They are quite the opportunists. It's subconscious with them.

[Italicus]

Honestly I don't hate Israel. I just wish they would stop meddling with American politics.

[JamesBond007]

But Jews are connected to their land, it has been proven by DNA. They are semites.

Really ? You verified it in a special lab ? Here is the deal genius most science outside of physics is politically motivated statistical manipulation. Physics isn't 100% bulletproof, either :



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42QuXLucH3Q

Listen hear both Science and Philosophy are supposed to deal with general truths but they use different methods. Science requires access to special experiences where as any man can verify philosophical truths via everyday common experiences. My nigga, you know you did not check that DNA study in the lab !

[Italicus]

Really ? You verfied it in a special lab ? Here is the deal genius most science outside of physics is politically motivated statistical manipulation. Physics isn't 100% bulletproof, either :



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=42QuXLucH3Q

Listen hear both Science and Philosophy are supposed to deal with general truths but they use different methods. Science requires access to special experiences where as any man can verify philosophical truths via everyday common experiences. My nigga, you know you did not check that DNA study in the lab !

On Gedmatch and G25 it shows that Jews have significant Judaen ancestry. They are all indigenous.

[JamesBond007]

On Gedmatch and G25 it shows that Jews have significant Judaen ancestry. They are all indigenous.

So a lot of English are at least 25% Irish and I am like 37% Irish. The Scots are even more Irish. So does that mean Protestant English and Scotsmen return to the Irish holy land and treat native Catholic Irishmen as Palestinians ?:picard2:

[JamesBond007]

On Gedmatch and G25 it shows that Jews have significant Judaen ancestry. They are all indigenous.


GEDmatch and G25 are black boxes. Vahaduo does not make them open source

[Italicus]

So a lot of English are at least 25% Irish and I am like 37% Irish. The Scots are even more Irish. So does that mean Protestant English and Scotsmen return to the Irish holy land and treat native Catholic Irishmen as Palestinians ?:picard2:

Where else could they go? It was preferable that they went there and not in white countries. They could have gone to Nadagascar too lol

[JamesBond007]

Where else could they go? It was preferable that they went there and not in white countries. They could have gone to Nadagascar too lol

What are you talking about ? You act like all Jews extracted themselves from Western countries then hermetically sealed themselves in Israel.

[Tooting Carmen]

What are you talking about ? You act like all Jews extracted themselves from Western countries then hermetically sealed themselves in Israel.

Well think how many more Jews would still be in the West were it not for aliya (for good and for ill).

As for the OP: I don't hate Israel, and certainly it is a relative (key operative word here) bastion of liberty and reason compared to most Middle Eastern countries. It is a particularly strong hub for science and education. Nevertheless, it does often behave recklessly and disproportionately in the Palestinian Territories - terrorising in the name of "counter-terrorism" - and its dominance of US foreign policy is rather overwhelming for a country around the same size as Wales. (If only Wales could command anything like the same attention from the US establishment as Israel does, imagine what wonders that could do. :D)

[axel.aleman]

I do not hate Israel and Jew but the globalist zionist agenda Is harmful

[JamesBond007]

As for the OP: I don't hate Israel, and certainly it is a relative (key operative word here) bastion of liberty and reason compared to most Middle Eastern countries. It is a particularly strong hub for science and education. Nevertheless, it does often behave recklessly and disproportionately in the Palestinian Territories - terrorising in the name of "counter-terrorism" - and its dominance of US foreign policy is rather overwhelming for a country around the same size as Wales. (If only Wales could command anything like the same attention from the US establishment as Israel does, imagine what wonders that could do. :D)


The state of Israel -- center of world Jewry -- is a virtual textbook case of social sickness and political malfeasance. Israel is the largest recipient of US foreign aid, which amounts to approximately billions of dollars annually (equivalent to a subsidy of about $1000 or so for every Jewish family in Israel), and total direct and indirect US aid since Israel's founding in 1948 is approximately hundreds of billions. The reason for this largesse, as columnist Pat Buchanan observed, is that the US congress is "Israeli-occupied territory"; for any senator or representative daring to take a stand against Israeli "aid" is targeted by Jewish PACs for removal at the next election -- and almost always is. Israel has also received billions more from Germany as "war reparations" -- payments which continue more than half a century after the war, which was fought before Israel even came into existence, and in spite of the fact that Germany and the World Zionist Congress signed an agreement on 10 Sep 1952, known as the Luxembourg Agreement, which covered all Jewish war claims and which was paid by Germany long ago. Yet Israel is a socialist state in which taxes are sky-high, labor unions are politically and economically dominant, and -- as in any socialist state -- the economy is stagnant. This stagnation, incidentally, embraces many of the famed kibbutzes (collective farms), which are able to survive only because of government handouts. What is more, Israel is the only state besides nazi Germany to forbid Jew-gentile marriages (mixed couples usually get married in Cyprus). As is well-known, Israel uses torture (so-called 'moderate pressure') and bone-breaking as an instrument of state policy. In addition, there was a large public monument in Israel to Baruch Goldstein, who machine-gunned to death some 30 arabs at prayer before he himself was killed. The statue was up for years and only taken down because of international pressure.

[Tooting Carmen]

Israel hasn't been socialist for at least forty years.

[JamesBond007]

Israel hasn't been socialist for at least forty years.

That is a matter of opinion. Jews like to promote Socialism worldwide so why not showcase it for the Goyim in Israel ?

[Cristiano viejo]

Jews are anti-white, that is why.

[Fortnite777]

I don't hate Israel, I actually am very supportive of the early Zionists. Zionism in its original form was fundamentally antisemitic. Herzl and Nordau were originally Germanophiles who wanted nothing to do with their own jewishness, until they realized they have to live with their jewishness and overcome the negatives of it in a truly European manner. Ruppin believed Ashkenazim were actually Ur-Aryans who would rule over the inferior Mizrahi and Arabs alike, but also needed Eugenics to return to their proper "Indo-Germanic" blood profile (Ruppin also was friendly towards Hans F.K. Guenther, arguably the chief ethnologist of Nazi Germany. The amicability was mutual). As Herzl said, the Antisemite was the greatest ally to the Zionist, and he didn't mean that in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way. Fascists across Europe, including Nazis, both covertly and overtly supported the efforts of Zionism and collaborated with Zionists from all rungs of the ladder.

However, I think the Holocaust Narrative and the mass exodus of Jews into Israel from the camps fundamentally changed the spirit of Zionism on all sides. It went from an effort to transform Jews into something better (basically both cultural and literal Eugenics) to a massive circlejerk of the Jewish people. After the war they also flooded the country with Mizrachi Jews, who do not have the talent or genius of the Ashkenazim and while of the same clan are racially rather different. This changed Zionism from a racial movement into a religious one. Herzl was secular, in fact he wanted Israelis to become Christian and speak German. Most Zionists before WW2 were clear that this was an ethnic movement, not a religious one. But during the cold war, the old style of Zionists faded and we were left with Religious Zionists and Labor Zionists (who had shed much of their "bigoted" sentiments).

So yeah, modern Israel is not what I think it was intended to be. But it isn't the bogeyman people pretend it is. Israel is secondary to whatever Jews do in the U.S.. Israelis are usually at least somewhat sympathetic to the European right, being extremely right wing themselves. American Jews would still be total shitlibs even if Israel never existed. If Israel can keep the land under their control, good for them. Arabs have humiliated themselves trying to get it back, they literally surround Israel and even when the US wasn't a major player they failed. All that being said, I don't want their citizens meddling in my government and I don't want us donating so much money to them after some of the sneaky stuff they've done to us.

[Fortnite777]

Yeah, I am looking at the big picture Jews would have been better off in Madagascar. Jews have some irrational attachment to that land in the middle east. Maybe Mizrahi Jews have some genetic ties to the land but not Sephardic and Ashkenazi Jews.

Jews just got the British to give them Israel/Palestine and it has been a clusterfuck compared to Madagascar.

Some also wanted to go to Brazil or Argentina. I think Mussolini wanted to send them to the Horn.

I would say Ashkenazim and Sephardim at least have patrilineal ties to the land. DNA wise, they're probably mostly a mish mash of peoples from the Roman-era mediterrenean with Ashkenazim having some extra N. Euro admixture. It doesn't really matter though, now that the (50% Jewish, not even exaggerating) media has some studies calling them over 50% israelite the "Greco-Roman" hypothesis will literally never get any coverage

[JamesBond007]

I don't hate Israel, I actually am very supportive of the early Zionists. Zionism in its original form was fundamentally antisemitic. Herzl and Nordau were originally Germanophiles who wanted nothing to do with their own jewishness, until they realized they have to live with their jewishness and overcome the negatives of it in a truly European manner. Ruppin believed Ashkenazim were actually Ur-Aryans who would rule over the inferior Mizrahi and Arabs alike, but also needed Eugenics to return to their proper "Indo-Germanic" blood profile (Ruppin also was friendly towards Hans F.K. Guenther, arguably the chief ethnologist of Nazi Germany. The amicability was mutual). As Herzl said, the Antisemite was the greatest ally to the Zionist, and he didn't mean that in a tongue-in-cheek sort of way. Fascists across Europe, including Nazis, both covertly and overtly supported the efforts of Zionism and collaborated with Zionists from all rungs of the ladder.

However, I think the Holocaust Narrative and the mass exodus of Jews into Israel from the camps fundamentally changed the spirit of Zionism on all sides. It went from an effort to transform Jews into something better (basically both cultural and literal Eugenics) to a massive circlejerk of the Jewish people. After the war they also flooded the country with Mizrachi Jews, who do not have the talent or genius of the Ashkenazim and while of the same clan are racially rather different. This changed Zionism from a racial movement into a religious one. Herzl was secular, in fact he wanted Israelis to become Christian and speak German. Most Zionists before WW2 were clear that this was an ethnic movement, not a religious one. But during the cold war, the old style of Zionists faded and we were left with Religious Zionists and Labor Zionists (who had shed much of their "bigoted" sentiments).

So yeah, modern Israel is not what I think it was intended to be. But it isn't the bogeyman people pretend it is. Israel is secondary to whatever Jews do in the U.S.. Israelis are usually at least somewhat sympathetic to the European right, being extremely right wing themselves. American Jews would still be total shitlibs even if Israel never existed. If Israel can keep the land under their control, good for them. Arabs have humiliated themselves trying to get it back, they literally surround Israel and even when the US wasn't a major player they failed. All that being said, I don't want their citizens meddling in my government and I don't want us donating so much money to them after some of the sneaky stuff they've done to us.


1.) Anti-Semitism is nothing but the antagonistic attitude produced in the non-Jew by the Jewish group. The Jewish group has thrived on oppression and on the antagonism it has forever met in the world... the root cause is their use of enemies they create in order to keep solidarity...
--- Albert Einstein, quoted in Collier's Magazine, November 26, 1938

2.) In spite of the tension between nazi Germany and the Jews, Jewish organizations and the nazi government actually cooperated with one another in helping Jews immigrate to Palestine under the Ha'avara, or Transfer Agreement of May 1933. Specifically, Germany allowed the setting up of camps on German soil for the training of Jews in agricultural and other skills needed for emigration, and what is now the Israeli flag was the only national symbol besides the hakenkruz which was allowed to fly within the German Reich. More than this, many articles appeared in the German press praising Zionism, and Propaganda Minister Dr Joseph Goebbels even commissioned a special medallion commemorating Zionism . The nazi-Zionist collaboration was so close that one of the Jewish underground military organizations in Palestine (the Irgun), whose leader, Menachem Begin, later became Prime Minister of Israel, actually made a formal proposal to the nazi government to fight on the side of Germany in exchange for German cooperation in forcing German Jews to immigrate to Palestine.

3.) Right-wing Israelis and shitlib American Jews. Did it ever occur to you that Jews hedge their bets ? Thus even granting the possibility that the Jewish hoi polloi are idealistic liberals with no intent of trashing whites or Western civilization, the fact that liberalism has been a failure in every instance where it has been tried -- from the numerous communist and socialist regimes around the world (the Soviet Union, China, Cambodia, North Korea, and so on) to every particular program where it has been tried in the West (welfare, government health care, social security, farm subsidies, urban renewal, public housing, VA hospitals, plus all the other programs we have already mentioned, plus zillions of others) -- can only mean that Jewish leaders -- the most intelligent men of an outstandingly- intelligent race -- know perfectly well the effects of liberalism, and continue to promote it precisely because they approve of its effects. And while it is true that Israel itself adheres to liberalism in the economic sphere (but not in the racial, ethnic or sexual!), this is not a refutation of our position, but could be explained in various ways, eg, as a need on the part of Jewish leaders to showcase their liberalism to the gentiles in order to be better able to use it against them; or as an experiment in command and control of their own people in order to facilitate using it against the West; or as merely the effect of the Jewish hoi polloi believing in liberalism without their leaders believing in it.

[Tooting Carmen]

The Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Haj Amin el-Hosseini, was a Nazi agent, who encouraged Arab militias to massacre Jewish refugees and settlers in British Mandate Palestine. He said that if Hitler won the war, he'd collaborate in eliminating every Jew from the entire Middle East.

[Florstadt]

Why do you say that Israel is fascist, it is the other way around.

https://i.ibb.co/xXWyBj0/Istandwith-Israel.png (https://imgbb.com/)
forum ohne anmeldung posten (https://de.imgbb.com/)

https://media4.giphy.com/media/R6gvnAxj2ISzJdbA63/giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e478dfv5mhc7tsubszemd6tzaofbws9 urnprll8j9am&ep=v1_gifs_search&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g

[Florstadt]

Dude look at the big picture and focus on the context! Israel is in the fucking middle east, surrounded by angry islamist Arabs with many being terrorists that want it wiped off the plant and you're calling it a depostic state? Like wtf...have you looked at Syria, Palestine (under hamas), fuck even Egypt and Iraq? What are they to you, safe havens with democracy and prosperity?! :picard1: White liberals man....y'all just hate israel cos it's white and the surrounding countries are brown victims :bored: Poor Israel and jews...both the far right and far left hate on them and for dumb reasons!

Very sane and clever perception of reality.

[Loki]

I don't hate Israel and Israelis. In fact, Israel seems like a nice country to live in, especially near the coast (I don't mean Gaza..).

My main concern is that the Israeli government protect historical sites, especially sites of religious interest, and permit Christians to do their pilgrimages and so on. And, by and large, there doesn't seem to be any problems with that. Probably because Israel gets a lot of revenue from Christian tourists. So, the Christian shrines are of benefit to Israel.

I would be less comfortable if it was in Muslim hands.

I hope Jewish orthodox fundamentalists don't spoil Israel's relationship with Christian pilgrims and tourists in the future.

[Tooting Carmen]

I don't hate Israel and Israelis. In fact, Israel seems like a nice country to live in, especially near the coast (I don't mean Gaza..).

My main concern is that the Israeli government protect historical sites, especially sites of religious interest, and permit Christians to do their pilgrimages and so on. And, by and large, there doesn't seem to be any problems with that. Probably because Israel gets a lot of revenue from Christian tourists. So, the Christian shrines are of benefit to Israel.

I would be less comfortable if it was in Muslim hands.

I hope Jewish orthodox fundamentalists don't spoil Israel's relationship with Christian pilgrims and tourists in the future.

Well especially given the disparities in birthrates, there is real concern in some quarters that Israel will become increasingly Orthodox over time, and that more than a few of them would like to turn it into little more than a Jewish version of Iran, Saudi Arabia or even the Taliban's Afghanistan.

[Florstadt]

Well especially given the disparities in birthrates, there is real concern in some quarters that Israel will become increasingly Orthodox over time, and that more than a few of them would like to turn it into little more than a Jewish version of Iran, Saudi Arabia or even the Taliban's Afghanistan.

Yes, the last time I walked down the street, there were big five guys on a tender asking me questions, taking me into a basement, and forcing me to deny my atheism.

[Hektor12]

I dont hate Israel but i hate how they created and enlarging it, using christian nations as "useful idiots" in their war with muslims.

[Laredo]

I like Israel.

[Laredo]

I don't hate Israel and Israelis. In fact, Israel seems like a nice country to live in, especially near the coast (I don't mean Gaza..).

My main concern is that the Israeli government protect historical sites, especially sites of religious interest, and permit Christians to do their pilgrimages and so on. And, by and large, there doesn't seem to be any problems with that. Probably because Israel gets a lot of revenue from Christian tourists. So, the Christian shrines are of benefit to Israel.

I would be less comfortable if it was in Muslim hands.

I hope Jewish orthodox fundamentalists don't spoil Israel's relationship with Christian pilgrims and tourists in the future.

I would move to Tel avi In a heart beat If I could.

[Your Old Comrade]

Israel to me is like diving into the Arctic Ocean. It leaves me perfectly cold.

[~Elizabeth~]

Israelis are genociding the Palestinians.

Yes, I hate Israel.

I hate Zionism.

[Blondie]

Israel to me is like diving into the Arctic Ocean. It leaves me perfectly cold.

Same here, just like the suffering of muslims.

[Smaland]

For me, it's more accurate to say that I want nothing to do with the Talmud, nothing whatsoever. Whether they follow the Talmud or not, to the great majority of modern Israelites, the "Torah" is just a word.

Karaite Jews reject the Talmud, and follow the Torah (and other parts of the Old Testament?). If all modern Israelites were Karaite Jews, no problem. No one can be saved by following the Law; however, a strictly observant Karaite Jew would lead an ethical life.

[BlissPV]

Israel the government? Yes
Israel the people? Those that support their gov, yes.
Jews in particular? Depends on the person.
The Kabbala and Talmud. Pure Hate for evil.

[Abti]

Love the Old Israel.

[Odelia]

I dont hate Israel but i hate how they created and enlarging it, using christian nations as "useful idiots" in their war with muslims.
That's your inner Turk talking. Maybe if Turkey was friends with Christian nations it will be more advanced like Israel? The useful idiots here are the pro Palestinian supporters who are waging a war against Christians, the west and white people in general. Not knowing that these useful idiots are enemies of Islam as they're very liberal, LGBT and atheistic.

[Italicus]

No. Jews contributed greatly to Western civilization. Without Jews, there would be no concept of God, and we would not have as many cultural and scientific achievements. I'll admit I had quite an antisemitic phase, but I have great Jewish friends and family members that are amazing people. I'd actually like to visit Israel one day.

[Anglo-Celtic]

It's the worst country in the Middle East. I mean, except for the rest of them. Israel is an oasis of civilization in a Sahara of dictators and terrorists. The women ain't too bad, either.

[Tradra]

That's your inner Turk talking. Maybe if Turkey was friends with Christian nations it will be more advanced like Israel? The useful idiots here are the pro Palestinian supporters who are waging a war against Christians, the west and white people in general. Not knowing that these useful idiots are enemies of Islam as they're very liberal, LGBT and atheistic.

Why are you sticking your fingers in your ears going LALALALA and pretending like there's no Jewish war against Christians? Who pushes liberalism, LGBT and secularism on the Christian west? Even Islam is a weapon made by jews against Christianity.

[Italicus]

It's the worst country in the Middle East. I mean, except for the rest of them. Israel is an oasis of civilization in a Sahara of dictators and terrorists. The women ain't too bad, either.

Don't forget about the Maronite region of Lebanon, they're quite civilized as well. Armenia too, if you count that as Near Eastern.

[Mortimer]

https://i.ibb.co/Hxzk0kS/Israel-Istandwith-Israel.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

[Anglo-Celtic]

Don't forget about the Maronite region of Lebanon, they're quite civilized as well. Armenia too, if you count that as Near Eastern.

That's a good point, and it must be the Christianity in Lebanon. That compliment is not just down to the fact that a Lebanese girl had a crush on me in high school, I swear.

[Italicus]

That's a good point, and it must be the Christianity in Lebanon. That compliment is not just down to the fact that a Lebanese girl had a crush on me in high school, I swear.

Exactly. Islam is a regressive religion that set back progress in the Middle East. Who knows what it would look like if it had never occurred.

[Anglo-Celtic]

Exactly. Islam is a regressive religion that set back progress in the Middle East. Who knows what it would look like if it had never occurred.

The Palestinian illegal immigrants should be deported yesterday. I get hate stares from chicks in burkas at Kroger's, likely because they think I'm Jewish (or maybe it's because of the "smash Hamas" patch on my jacket). ;)

[Daco Celtic]

https://youtu.be/QBgC87AHtHk?si=E9TwjoLq2IjN5_6g

[Anglo-Celtic]

https://youtu.be/QBgC87AHtHk?si=E9TwjoLq2IjN5_6g

I don't remember this from my youth. Is this the latest Mandela Effect?

[Svevlad]

I do not "hate" any group or nation in particular, but let's just say that the locals of that entire region have proved to be... Unsuited to good governance. Like the rest of the white-adjacent "Afrasian" lands, an eugenic regime must be instituted... Direct rule from Europe...

[Hektor12]

That's your inner Turk talking.

Im entirely Turk though, my inner part wouldnt make a difference imho.


Maybe if Turkey was friends with Christian nations it will be more advanced like Israel?

Turkey is friends with Christian nations (NATO member, EU wannabe-member, etc) and more advanced than all its neighbors.


The useful idiots here are the pro Palestinian supporters who are waging a war against Christians, the west and white people in general. Not knowing that these useful idiots are enemies of Islam as they're very liberal, LGBT and atheistic.

Any opposition toward Israel's operations is rational from christian perspective because its today very clear that destabilization of muslim countries and wars there result in masses of unwanted people ending up in christian countries.

[Chron]

I don't hate Israelis, nor the nation itself. I believe every ethnic group should have their own nation if the majority wants one. But some of the people involved with the governance are a bit fucked up.

[Zeno]

Well, the state itself is quite despicable. It provedly involves itself in the foreign policy of a lot of Western nations just for them to serve its own purposes. Then there's the issue of dual loyalty of many officials of Jewish heritage, especially in the US, which in turn will affect us all. It has to be noted that this tactic does enjoy support from the Israeli populus.

Then for contribution in Western civilisation: its contribution mostly concerns theoretical and social studies, which is very, very negative, as they deal with very degenerate and anti-European thinking. The Frankfurt School is the most prominent example. In the sciences, can't deny there have been contributions by Jews like Einstein and Oppenheimer.

For the people, it really depends. If they don't follow the Talmud strictly, which itself preaches some very atrocious things towards the gentiles, then yes, they're quite decent folks, and I have seen praise-worthy Jewish individuals. But many are profoundly anti-European and very discriminatory against all gentiles, like the Hasidim are, who are however quite extreme, but they increase in numbers due to their absurb birth rates. So, in retrospect, it really depends as far as the people are concerned, both good and bad people exist as in any nation.

[Foghorn]

Nothing new, people around Jews have always been envious of that great nation. And who wouldn't be. If there is a group of people who belong to the God, logically speaking - those around them will hate their guts.

Luckily, Israel can defend itself now, so their hate is meaningless.

[Florstadt]

Nothing new, people around Jews have always been envious of that great nation. And who wouldn't be. If there is a group of people who belong to the God, logically speaking - those around them will hate their guts.

Luckily, Israel can defend itself now, so their hate is meaningless.

At that time the nations will praise Israel, see what the praise of this nation is
who clung to God in all the hardships they went through
And they did not leave him, knowing they were in his goodness and praise
(Commentary of Rashi - Deuteronomy 42:3)

[Foghorn]

At that time the nations will praise Israel, see what the praise of this nation is
who clung to God in all the hardships they went through
And they did not leave him, knowing they were in his goodness and praise
(Commentary of Rashi - Deuteronomy 42:3)

We Serbs always had good relations with Israel, and we have shared the same enemies throughout our history.
We still stand firmly with Israel and pray for your victory.

[Florstadt]

Well, the state itself is quite despicable. It provedly involves itself in the foreign policy of a lot of Western nations just for them to serve its own purposes. Then there's the issue of dual loyalty of many officials of Jewish heritage, especially in the US, which in turn will affect us all. It has to be noted that this tactic does enjoy support from the Israeli populus.

Then for contribution in Western civilisation: its contribution mostly concerns theoretical and social studies, which is very, very negative, as they deal with very degenerate and anti-European thinking. The Frankfurt School is the most prominent example. In the sciences, can't deny there have been contributions by Jews like Einstein and Oppenheimer.

For the people, it really depends. If they don't follow the Talmud strictly, which itself preaches some very atrocious things towards the gentiles, then yes, they're quite decent folks, and I have seen praise-worthy Jewish individuals. But many are profoundly anti-European and very discriminatory against all gentiles, like the Hasidim are, who are however quite extreme, but they increase in numbers due to their absurb birth rates. So, in retrospect, it really depends as far as the people are concerned, both good and bad people exist as in any nation.

Nobody really adhere to the Talmud, apart from Orthodox Jews

Leviticus 19:34 says:

The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.

https://i.imgur.com/FxzLkOb.png

[Florstadt]

We Serbs always had good relations with Israel, and we have shared the same enemies throughout our history.
We still stand firmly with Israel and pray for your victory.

Thank you my friend.

[Kess]

Nothing new, people around Jews have always been envious of that great nation. And who wouldn't be. If there is a group of people who belong to the God, logically speaking - those around them will hate their guts.

Luckily, Israel can defend itself now, so their hate is meaningless.

Whites envy Jews because they are rich. Simple as it is.

125523

[Italicus]

Well, the state itself is quite despicable. It provedly involves itself in the foreign policy of a lot of Western nations just for them to serve its own purposes. Then there's the issue of dual loyalty of many officials of Jewish heritage, especially in the US, which in turn will affect us all. It has to be noted that this tactic does enjoy support from the Israeli populus.

Then for contribution in Western civilisation: its contribution mostly concerns theoretical and social studies, which is very, very negative, as they deal with very degenerate and anti-European thinking. The Frankfurt School is the most prominent example. In the sciences, can't deny there have been contributions by Jews like Einstein and Oppenheimer.

For the people, it really depends. If they don't follow the Talmud strictly, which itself preaches some very atrocious things towards the gentiles, then yes, they're quite decent folks, and I have seen praise-worthy Jewish individuals. But many are profoundly anti-European and very discriminatory against all gentiles, like the Hasidim are, who are however quite extreme, but they increase in numbers due to their absurb birth rates. So, in retrospect, it really depends as far as the people are concerned, both good and bad people exist as in any nation.

I agree wholeheartedly. Jews unfortunately have played an outsized role in the demise of Europe and Western nations, via media, Hollywood, academia, politics and finance. However, those are only a minority of Jews. The everyday Jew is a good fellow that does his or her own thing in life. They also have had amazing scientific and cultural achievements. They are a very complex group, for sure.

[Italicus]

Whites envy Jews because they are rich. Simple as it is.

125523

Well, speaking as a former anti semite, it's much more complex than that. It mainly has to do with the over representation of Jews in cultural, political and financial positions, and what they do with that power, not necessarily that they are in those positions in the first place.

[Zeno]

I agree wholeheartedly. Jews unfortunately have played an outsized role in the demise of Europe and Western nations, via media, Hollywood, academia, politics and finance. However, those are only a minority of Jews. The everyday Jew is a good fellow that does his or her own thing in life. They also have had amazing scientific and cultural achievements. They are a very complex group, for sure.

Thing is, that they have support, quite sizeable in fact, from the rest of Jews. Or at worst, apathy towards their destructive attitude that they radiate towards Europeans. There are Jews who don't think this is right I want to believe. But they're not the majority. As mentioned, the people who are hostile to the gentiles are the majority, unfortunately. This is why scholars in leftist thinking, who absolutely dominate the academic community in all European countries, are in the vast majority Jewish, despite being a tiny percentage of the population. And it's not that much due to the academic prowess. Many have gotten promotions without them really deserving it. But they got it because they promote agendas, which are more than obvious at that point. Because many of their theories can easily be disproved, but the people who disprove them aren't exactly promoted, but rather shunned.

For their cultural achievements, it's mostly the things I referred to. Scientifically, undoubtedly they have offered quite a lot. But so have other European societies if we are to be completely frank. Even my ethnicity has offered many things which aren't known to be discovered by Greeks. But unlike Jews, it's not overly promoted. In fact, it's quite unknown. In the US, the second biggest group of academics in origins are Greeks, immediately after Jews in a study conducted by a Turkish academic, Yuret: https://www.ekathimerini.com/society/diaspora/223142/greek-professors-a-force-to-be-reckoned-with-in-us-academia/

[Italicus]

Thing is, that they have support, quite sizeable in fact, from the rest of Jews. Or at worst, apathy towards their destructive attitude that they radiate towards Europeans. There are Jews who don't think this is right I want to believe. But they're not the majority. As mentioned, the people who are hostile to the gentiles are the majority, unfortunately. This is why scholars in leftist thinking, who absolutely dominate the academic community in all European countries, are in the vast majority Jewish, despite being a tiny percentage of the population. And it's not that much due to the academic prowess. Many have gotten promotions without them really deserving it. But they got it because they promote agendas, which are more than obvious at that point. Because many of their theories can easily be disproved, but the people who disprove them aren't exactly promoted, but rather shunned.

For their cultural achievements, it's mostly the things I referred to. Scientifically, undoubtedly they have offered quite a lot. But so have other European societies if we are to be completely frank. Even my ethnicity has offered many things which aren't known to be discovered by Greeks. But unlike Jews, it's not overly promoted. In fact, it's quite unknown. In the US, the second biggest group of academics in origins are Greeks, immediately after Jews in a study conducted by a Turkish academic, Yuret: https://www.ekathimerini.com/society/diaspora/223142/greek-professors-a-force-to-be-reckoned-with-in-us-academia/

I wish I could say you were wrong. I simply can't though. I don't hate Jews, but their power is too much too simply ignore. And I'm not some crazy Nazi either, and neither are you. I just wish there was a way to reduce Jewish power, without hurting Jews.

[catgeorge]

Here's a fun fact.
Whoever mentions Judeo-Christian culture are actually Jews themselves.
.....Jews put Jesus on a crucifixion
..... Christians say Jesus was God in flesh.

Jews are atheists where their genesis is simply a rip off from Hesiod's Theogony written 500 years prior to the knowledge of the Old Testament which is the Septuagint which Ptolemy II considered laughable and Plagiarism.

Something you will never hear in the modern world.

[Zeno]

I wish I could say you were wrong. I simply can't though. I don't hate Jews, but their power is too much too simply ignore. And I'm not some crazy Nazi either, and neither are you. I just wish there was a way to reduce Jewish power, without hurting Jews.

Well, we're not saying anything that's wrong. It's pretty observable, especially that we live in the era where we can search and find out everything.

[Italicus]

Well, we're not saying anything that's wrong. It's pretty observable, especially that we live in the era where we can search and find out everything.

Yeah, I know we're not wrong. The Jewish question kind of sucks though. What do we do with these people? I don't want them dead like Hitler did, I just want them to stop being subversive. It should not be so much to ask. We really are in between a rock and a hard place.

[Zeno]

Yeah, I know we're not wrong. The Jewish question kind of sucks though. What do we do with these people? I don't want them dead like Hitler did, I just want them to stop being subversive. It should not be so much to ask. We really are in between a rock and a hard place.

They just must not interfere in our internal affairs. They have their own state now, for almost 80 years, and they behave like that. Can they promote their policies and form alliances? Sure. But to basically bully other nations to accept their positions and label them as "anti-Semites" if they refuse to do so isn't ok.

It's unacceptable. But killing them isn't certainly the answer. Because, and I know it sounds extreme, but it's something also noticeable, is that because of the Holocaust they excuse anything they do now. Gaza? The Holocaust. Interfering in Western politics? The Holocaust. Germans not allowed to have one trace of pride? The Holocaust. Anything revolves around that tragedy. We know it happened. But past atrocities don't excuse present ones or other present actions with malicious intent.

[Italicus]

They just must not interfere in our internal affairs. They have their own state now, for almost 80 years, and they behave like that. Can they promote their policies and form alliances? Sure. But to basically bully other nations to accept their positions and label them as "anti-Semites" if they refuse to do so isn't ok.

It's unacceptable. But killing them isn't certainly the answer. Because, and I know it sounds extreme, but it's something also noticeable, is that because of the Holocaust they excuse anything they do now. Gaza? The Holocaust. Interfering in Western politics? The Holocaust. Germans not allowed to have one trace of pride? The Holocaust. Anything revolves around that tragedy. We know it happened. But past atrocities don't excuse present ones or other present actions with malicious intent.

Exactly. What they do is essentially emotional bullying with the Holocaust. You don't see Greeks, Armenians or Assyrians doing that, even though they faced the same tragic fate as Jews. It just seems that they can't leave other groups alone, and I think that mentality comes from their cosmopolitan, multicultural background and past. However, it is much more pronounced with Ashkenazim, for whatever reason. Mizrahi and Sephardi jews are much more nationalist in Israel and seem to do their own thing. The Jews in media, academia, politics, finance and Hollywood are mostly Ashkenazim.

[Florstadt]

I agree wholeheartedly. Jews unfortunately have played an outsized role in the demise of Europe and Western nations, via media, Hollywood, academia, politics and finance. However, those are only a minority of Jews. The everyday Jew is a good fellow that does his or her own thing in life. They also have had amazing scientific and cultural achievements. They are a very complex group, for sure.

On the contrary, from medieval expulsions and pogroms to the horrors of Nazism, Jewish communities have endured centuries of challenges, yet their resilience and contributions remain indelible threads in Europe's fabric.

What lead to "Europe's demise" is the insatiable thirst for European colonial dominance that fueled the flames of two devastating world wars. Unquenchable desires for resources, territories, and global influence entangled nations in webs of escalating tensions. Nationalistic fervor and imperial ambitions poisoned international relations, ultimately erupting into unprecedented bloodshed that scarred the 20th century. Though complex factors contributed to these global conflicts, the insatiable hunger for colonial possessions stands as a potent and tragic catalyst for both wars.

[Italicus]

On the contrary, from medieval expulsions and pogroms to the horrors of Nazism, Jewish communities have endured centuries of challenges, yet their resilience and contributions remain indelible threads in Europe's fabric.

What lead to "Europe's demise" is the insatiable thirst for European colonial dominance that fueled the flames of two devastating world wars. Unquenchable desires for resources, territories, and global influence entangled nations in webs of escalating tensions. Nationalistic fervor and imperial ambitions poisoned international relations, ultimately erupting into unprecedented bloodshed that scarred the 20th century. Though complex factors contributed to these global conflicts, the insatiable hunger for colonial possessions stands as a potent and tragic catalyst for both wars.

Of course, it wasn't just Jews. It was multiple factors that had a role, such as a desire for cheap labor and violent, fratricidal wars and the desire to never become embroiled in a European conflict ever again, as well as guilt for the World Wars and colonialism. Europe could have just said no entry to non whites, but like i said, there was guilt + cheap labor. But the Frankfurt school (largely Jewish intellectuals) played a large role in changing America's collective view of non white migration as well as changing views on sexuality and family dynamics.

[Florstadt]

Of course, it wasn't just Jews. It was multiple factors that had a role, such as a desire for cheap labor and violent, fratricidal wars and the desire to never become embroiled in a European conflict ever again, as well as guilt for the World Wars and colonialism. Europe could have just said no entry to non whites, but like i said, there was guilt + cheap labor. But the Frankfurt school (largely Jewish intellectuals) played a large role in changing America's collective view of non white migration as well as changing views on sexuality and family dynamics.

The Renaissance planted the seeds of progressive thought. Its humanist ideals, questioning of traditional dogmas, and advancements in science and arts challenged existing structures and paved the way for future reformers.

The seeds of American liberalism were sown in its very foundation. The revolutionary ideals of individual liberty, limited government, and democratic representation, deeply rooted in Enlightenment philosophies, formed the bedrock of a more progressive political system.

I don't see any problems with non-white immigration to America, it was never that "white" to begin with.

[Italicus]

The Renaissance planted the seeds of progressive thought. Its humanist ideals, questioning of traditional dogmas, and advancements in science and arts challenged existing structures and paved the way for future reformers.

The seeds of American liberalism were sown in its very foundation. The revolutionary ideals of individual liberty, limited government, and democratic representation, deeply rooted in Enlightenment philosophies, formed the bedrock of a more progressive political system.

I don't see any problems with non-white immigration to America, it was never that "white" to begin with.

Politically progressive does not alway equal racially or sexually progressive. The conquest of the New World, Oceania, South Africa and Siberia came during and after the Renaissance. These societies were founded upon Enlightenment ideals, but to the benefit of the settler, not the native. And people from the Renaissance to the mid 20th century never thought of non whites as being their peers, let alone fellow citizens. The Enlightenment was meant to imrove the plight of the white working class, overall. America was intended to be a white country from it's inception. One of the very first laws in this country was the 1790 immigration act, which restricted migration to "free white persons of good character."

[Florstadt]

Politically progressive does not alway equal racially or sexually progressive. The conquest of the New World, Oceania, South Africa and Siberia came during and after the Renaissance. These societies were founded upon Enlightenment ideals, but to the benefit of the settler, not the native. And people from the Renaissance to the mid 20th century never thought of non whites as being their peers, let alone fellow citizens. The Enlightenment was meant to imrove the plight of the white working class, overall. America was intended to be a white country from it's inception. One of the very first laws in this country was the 1790 immigration act, which restricted migration to "free white persons of good character."

So it's about Europeans taking over a continent, bringing disease and destruction with them, wiping out almost the entire local community, and then crying about non-European immigration, did I understand correctly?

[Tooting Carmen]

Politically progressive does not alway equal racially or sexually progressive. The conquest of the New World, Oceania, South Africa and Siberia came during and after the Renaissance. These societies were founded upon Enlightenment ideals, but to the benefit of the settler, not the native. And people from the Renaissance to the mid 20th century never thought of non whites as being their peers, let alone fellow citizens. The Enlightenment was meant to imrove the plight of the white working class, overall. America was intended to be a white country from it's inception. One of the very first laws in this country was the 1790 immigration act, which restricted migration to "free white persons of good character."

But are Whites really a cohesive group as such themselves? There have been plenty of civil and interstate wars in Europe just like in other continents. Also, there certainly isn't a single European language, culture or even phenotype, and insofar as there are the first two things nowadays throughout Europe, it is basically American English and pop culture respectively that act as a unifying force (for good and for ill), not really anything intrinsic or internal to Europe itself.

[Zeno]

The Renaissance planted the seeds of progressive thought. Its humanist ideals, questioning of traditional dogmas, and advancements in science and arts challenged existing structures and paved the way for future reformers.

The seeds of American liberalism were sown in its very foundation. The revolutionary ideals of individual liberty, limited government, and democratic representation, deeply rooted in Enlightenment philosophies, formed the bedrock of a more progressive political system.

I don't see any problems with non-white immigration to America, it was never that "white" to begin with.

Because Greek scholars actually were the ones who basically sowed the seeds for the Renaissance to happen, as they were the ones who transported most of the valuable manuscripts towards Italy, they weren't exactly new discoveries. The teachings of the old were merely rediscovered, and upon those new dogmas and discoveries flourished.

The Enlightenment was something almost completely different. Many of the teachings of the Renaissance were actually defied and openly challenged.

[Kess]

So it's about Europeans taking over a continent, bringing disease and destruction with them, wiping out almost the entire local community, and then crying about non-European immigration, did I understand correctly?

White privilege Jews don't have that. That's why they are mad at you and defending Palestine.

[Italicus]

So it's about Europeans taking over a continent, bringing disease and destruction with them, wiping out almost the entire local community, and then crying about non-European immigration, did I understand correctly?

Non sequitur. I am trying to say that racial progressivism was never a part of the Renaissance or the Enlightenment, and it is a recent ideology created by people such as Franz Boas and the Frankfurt School. If it was, there would be no such thing as settler colonialism. Just because Europeans conquered some land, doesn't mean it should be handed to hordes of people coming from the third world. And Europe itself should especially be protected. Don't forget, Israel is technically a settler society as well, although different in some aspects.

[Italicus]

But are Whites really a cohesive group as such themselves? There have been plenty of civil and interstate wars in Europe just like in other continents. Also, there certainly isn't a single European language, culture or even phenotype, and insofar as there are the first two things nowadays throughout Europe, it is basically American English and pop culture respectively that act as a unifying force (for good and for ill), not really anything intrinsic or internal to Europe itself.

No, they are not a cohesive group, although it is a gradual cline rather than abrupt, absolute changes. For example, Poland and Italy are quite different, but both have similarities to Croatia, for example. But in New World societies Europeans assimilate and blend in, whereas people coming from the third world are, well, very different.

[Tooting Carmen]

No, they are not a cohesive group, although it is a gradual cline rather than abrupt, absolute changes. For example, Poland and Italy are quite different, but both have similarities to Croatia, for example. But in New World societies Europeans assimilate and blend in, whereas people coming from the third world are, well, very different.

(1) Not all the New World is the same by any stretch: what you say might be true of the US and Canada, but hardly Guatemala and Bolivia, which are pred. Amerindian nations where the few Europeans there keep themselves mostly very separate. (2) The homogenised American culture that Europeans usually assimilate into (though not always, e.g. Amish) is precisely the same culture that threatens Europe's authentic homegrown diversity. For example, the Nations Cup soccer final between Croatia and Spain hosted in the Netherlands was conducted entirely with English announcements, despite not being the native language of either the host country or either finalist.

[Italicus]

(1) Not all the New World is the same by any stretch: what you say might be true of the US and Canada, but hardly Guatemala and Bolivia, which are pred. Amerindian nations where the few Europeans there keep themselves mostly very separate. (2) The homogenised American culture that Europeans usually assimilate into (though not always, e.g. Amish) is precisely the same culture that threatens Europe's authentic homegrown diversity. For example, the Nations Cup soccer final between Croatia and Spain hosted in the Netherlands was conducted entirely with English announcements, despite not being the native language of either the host country or either finalist.

What I mean is, European immigrants assimilate, adopt the local language, and behave according to Western moral and societal standards. Values that are missing in countries such as India, El Salvador, Egypt, I could go on and on. Even East Asians behave quite differently from whites, I remember my mom was told me that even when she got As in school, her father asked, "why didn't you get an A+?". Not someone I'd want as a boss or a manager. The only non Europeans I'm ok with migrating are Christian MENAs, as they are quite culturally similar to Southern Europeans. Also whites from the New World are good immigrants too.

[Tooting Carmen]

What I mean is, European immigrants assimilate, adopt the local language, and behave according to Western moral and societal standards. Values that are missing in countries such as India, El Salvador, Egypt, I could go on and on. Even East Asians behave quite differently from whites, I remember my mom was told me that even when she got As in school, her father asked, "why didn't you get an A+?". Not someone I'd want as a boss or a manager. The only non Europeans I'm ok with migrating are Christian MENAs, as they are quite culturally similar to Southern Europeans. Also whites from the New World are good immigrants too.

There are many caveats I would add to those arguments, but here is one for starters: would you consider White (looking) people like myself and alnortedelsur acceptable immigrants, despite both of us having far-from-negligible Amerindian genetic ancestry?

[Italicus]

There are many caveats I would add to those arguments, but here is one for starters: would you consider White (looking) people like myself and alnortedelsur acceptable immigrants, despite both of us having far-from-negligible Amerindian genetic ancestry?

Yes.

[Florstadt]

Non sequitur. I am trying to say that racial progressivism was never a part of the Renaissance or the Enlightenment, and it is a recent ideology created by people such as Franz Boas and the Frankfurt School. If it was, there would be no such thing as settler colonialism. Just because Europeans conquered some land, doesn't mean it should be handed to hordes of people coming from the third world. And Europe itself should especially be protected. Don't forget, Israel is technically a settler society as well, although different in some aspects.

The American Revolution itself was driven by Enlightenment ideals of individual liberty, limited government, and democratic representation, which laid the foundation for a more progressive political system.

Enlightenment ideals of equality and natural rights undoubtedly influenced the abolitionist movement and the broader societal shift towards recognizing the inherent rights of all individuals, regardless of race.

Apart from that, Quakers, Mennonites, and other religious groups with pacifist and egalitarian beliefs openly condemned slavery and provided safe havens for runaway slaves.

The 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments to the US Constitution that abolished slavery, granted citizenship to all individuals born in the US, and established voting rights for all male citizens regardless of race or previous condition of servitude, were all written by the Jewish Frankfurt School?

The never-ending blame game where people love to point fingers at the Jews for everything under the sun. But let's be honest, expecting Jews to be responsible for writing every single amendment to the US Constitution is just a tad bit far-fetched, don't you think? It's as if they have some sort of magical power to control the entire legislative process. Perhaps we should create a new conspiracy theory: "The Secret Jewish Amendment-Writing Society." I'm sure some people would eat that right up.

the Jewish Frankfurt School, apparently responsible for everything from writing the US Constitution amendments to influencing global events. It's truly remarkable how some people can come up with the most creative conspiracy theories.

[Zeno]

But are Whites really a cohesive group as such themselves? There have been plenty of civil and interstate wars in Europe just like in other continents. Also, there certainly isn't a single European language, culture or even phenotype, and insofar as there are the first two things nowadays throughout Europe, it is basically American English and pop culture respectively that act as a unifying force (for good and for ill), not really anything intrinsic or internal to Europe itself.

No race is a cohesive group. Unless you think, in terms of Africans, that Berbers are the same as Bantus. They're both indigenous racial groups in Africa, but they're different from one another. But they do still belong in the same race? Yes, because despite their differences, they have characteristics that aren't met outside of the ethnic groups that exist within the frame of the race of Africans. Same goes for any phenotype within the frame of Europeans. Are Nordids the same as Mediterranids? No, but both are European, because their characteristics aren't met in people of non-European descent.

Don't play with semantics here. There are differentiations between humans on an individual scale, you think there won't be on an ethnic or a racial scale? Of course there will be, and it's a straight up delusion denying it does not.


So it's about Europeans taking over a continent, bringing disease and destruction with them, wiping out almost the entire local community, and then crying about non-European immigration, did I understand correctly?

When I was talking a bit before about Jewish leftist thinking that promotes intense anti-European way of thinking, that's quite literally what I meant. This is the most stereotypical spiel that can be disproved with one single fact:

The vast majority of immigrants coming to Europe and are replacing demographically come from places that whites didn't massively put European populations in. Unless you think that the Pakistanis and the Indians, when they were indeed colonies, had millions of Britons having been installed in the Indian subcontinent to demographically replace the Pakistanis, Hindus and all ethnic groups inside it. Or the French in Africa: did the French send millions upon millions of Frenchmen to demographically replace all Africans into Africa itself? No.

Intermittent edit: the Turks in Germany, who are millions, were oppressed by Europeans? The Turks ruled over an empire which had subjugated dozens of nations and was implicated in 3 slave trades and while they were establishing their new nations committed two genocides, that still refuse to admit they did them.


And that's the essence of today's times: people come to Europe en masse, while Europeans never did come to their colonies in such massive numbers. The only exceptions are the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and perhaps Brazil. But in the latter 3, indigenous groups are now numbering as many as they were before the arrival of Europeans, especially in Brazil. But in the rest of the world, the indigenous population almost never was touched or especially demographically replaced.

Also: it's so rich that you speak about Euros wiping out communities... While Israel does what it does with Gaza. I will repeat this: what is done there is literally akin to ethnic cleansing. And it's not Europeans doing it.

[Italicus]

The American Revolution itself was driven by Enlightenment ideals of individual liberty, limited government, and democratic representation, which laid the foundation for a more progressive political system.

Enlightenment ideals of equality and natural rights undoubtedly influenced the abolitionist movement and the broader societal shift towards recognizing the inherent rights of all individuals, regardless of race.

Apart from that, Quakers, Mennonites, and other religious groups with pacifist and egalitarian beliefs openly condemned slavery and provided safe havens for runaway slaves.

The 13th, 14th, and 15th Amendments to the US Constitution that abolished slavery, granted citizenship to all individuals born in the US, and established voting rights for all male citizens regardless of race or previous condition of servitude, were all written by the Jewish Frankfurt School?

The never-ending blame game where people love to point fingers at the Jews for everything under the sun. But let's be honest, expecting Jews to be responsible for writing every single amendment to the US Constitution is just a tad bit far-fetched, don't you think? It's as if they have some sort of magical power to control the entire legislative process. Perhaps we should create a new conspiracy theory: "The Secret Jewish Amendment-Writing Society." I'm sure some people would eat that right up.

the Jewish Frankfurt School, apparently responsible for everything from writing the US Constitution amendments to influencing global events. It's truly remarkable how some people can come up with the most creative conspiracy theories.

Yes, the 13th, 14th and 15th amendments were created by gentiles. But I am only talking about recent history, that being the mid 20th century to today. There was no natural progression, most Americans in the 1950s and 1960s did not want mass migration from third world countries or desegregation. That was foisted upon them by the government, with ideological roots in the Frankfurt school.

[Tooting Carmen]

No race is a cohesive group. Unless you think, in terms of Africans, that Berbers are the same as Bantus. They're both indigenous racial groups in Africa, but they're different from one another. But they do still belong in the same race? Yes, because despite their differences, they have characteristics that aren't met outside of the ethnic groups that exist within the frame of the race of Africans. Same goes for any phenotype within the frame of Europeans. Are Nordids the same as Mediterranids? No, but both are European, because their characteristics aren't met in people of non-European descent.

Don't play with semantics here. There are differentiations between humans on an individual scale, you think there won't be on an ethnic or a racial scale? Of course there will be, and it's a straight up delusion denying it does not.

Indeed Bantus and Berbers are not the same at all, which precisely makes the generalisations people like you make about Africans (or much more absurdly still, 'Third Worlders') ridiculous.


When I was talking a bit before about Jewish leftist thinking that promotes intense anti-European way of thinking, that's quite literally what I meant. This is the most stereotypical spiel that can be disproved with one single fact:

The vast majority of immigrants coming to Europe and are replacing demographically come from places that whites didn't massively put European populations in. Unless you think that the Pakistanis and the Indians, when they were indeed colonies, had millions of Britons having been installed in the Indian subcontinent to demographically replace the Pakistanis, Hindus and all ethnic groups inside it. Or the French in Africa: did the French send millions upon millions of Frenchmen to demographically replace all Africans into Africa itself? No.

And that's the essence of today's times: people come to Europe en masse, while Europeans never did come to their colonies in such massive numbers. The only exceptions are the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and perhaps Brazil. But in the latter 3, indigenous groups are now numbering as many as they were before the arrival of Europeans, especially in Brazil. But in the rest of the world, the indigenous population almost never was touched or especially demographically replaced.

Also: it's so rich that you speak about Euros wiping out communities... While Israel does what it does with Gaza. I will repeat this: what is done there is literally akin to ethnic cleansing. And it's not Europeans doing it.

Algeria had the Pied-Noirs and there were plenty of Europeans who settled in Southern Africa plus some in East Africa and South Asia. What's more, you forgot about Argentina, Uruguay and arguably Chile and Venezuela, which also had lots of European immigration. However, it is true that the number of British people in all the Indian Subcontinent at the peak of the Raj never surpassed 250,000, and per capita the number of European settlers in many of the other colonies was similarly low.

[Florstadt]

No race is a cohesive group. Unless you think, in terms of Africans, that Berbers are the same as Bantus. They're both indigenous racial groups in Africa, but they're different from one another. But they do still belong in the same race? Yes, because despite their differences, they have characteristics that aren't met outside of the ethnic groups that exist within the frame of the race of Africans. Same goes for any phenotype within the frame of Europeans. Are Nordids the same as Mediterranids? No, but both are European, because their characteristics aren't met in people of non-European descent.

Don't play with semantics here. There are differentiations between humans on an individual scale, you think there won't be on an ethnic or a racial scale? Of course there will be, and it's a straight up delusion denying it does not.



When I was talking a bit before about Jewish leftist thinking that promotes intense anti-European way of thinking, that's quite literally what I meant. This is the most stereotypical spiel that can be disproved with one single fact:

The vast majority of immigrants coming to Europe and are replacing demographically come from places that whites didn't massively put European populations in. Unless you think that the Pakistanis and the Indians, when they were indeed colonies, had millions of Britons having been installed in the Indian subcontinent to demographically replace the Pakistanis, Hindus and all ethnic groups inside it. Or the French in Africa: did the French send millions upon millions of Frenchmen to demographically replace all Africans into Africa itself? No.

Intermittent edit: the Turks in Germany, who are millions, were oppressed by Europeans? The Turks ruled over an empire which had subjugated dozens of nations and was implicated in 3 slave trades and while they were establishing their new nations committed two genocides, that still refuse to admit they did them.


And that's the essence of today's times: people come to Europe en masse, while Europeans never did come to their colonies in such massive numbers. The only exceptions are the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, and perhaps Brazil. But in the latter 3, indigenous groups are now numbering as many as they were before the arrival of Europeans, especially in Brazil. But in the rest of the world, the indigenous population almost never was touched or especially demographically replaced.

Also: it's so rich that you speak about Euros wiping out communities... While Israel does what it does with Gaza. I will repeat this: what is done there is literally akin to ethnic cleansing. And it's not Europeans doing it.

The notion that Europeans didn't replace local populations, apart from a few "minor" incidents in the US and Canada, is really funny.
I suppose the European explorers were just really good at playing hide-and-seek with the locals. They must have been masters of camouflage, blending seamlessly into the background while establishing colonies left and right. It's like they walked in and said, "Hey, we're not here to replace anyone, we just thought we'd join the party and bring some foreign diseases and conquering ambitions."

[Zeno]

Indeed Bantus and Berbers are not the same at all, which precisely makes the generalisations people like you make about Africans (or much more absurdly still, 'Third Worlders') ridiculous.



Algeria had the Pied-Noirs and there were plenty of Europeans who settled in Southern Africa plus some in East Africa and South Asia. What's more, you forgot about Argentina, Uruguay and arguably Chile and Venezuela, which also had lots of European immigration. However, it is true that the number of British people in all the Indian Subcontinent at the peak of the Raj never surpassed 250,000, and per capita the number of European settlers in many of the other colonies were similarly low.

They aren't generalisations, they are both Africans indeed. Because, and I don't think you can deny it, and as I said: their characteristics cannot appear anywhere besides people of descent from Africa. That's why they're called Africans.

The pieds noirs were still a very tiny minority. And for South Africa, the Boers (as all whites were collectively called as by the blacks) were never above 20% of the population. The Indian subcontinent had some thousands among hundreds of millions, a coke of sand, literally. And for the other colonies: some thousands at best, all the necessary workforce for the administration, ad definitionem.

For Latin America, yes, I did forget them, but weren't the indigenous in these countries still too few compared to the territories near the equator? Especially for Argentina, I haven't heard about many indigenous people near the Rio de la Plata.

[Zeno]

The notion that Europeans didn't replace local populations, apart from a few "minor" incidents in the US and Canada, is really funny.
I suppose the European explorers were just really good at playing hide-and-seek with the locals. They must have been masters of camouflage, blending seamlessly into the background while establishing colonies left and right. It's like they walked in and said, "Hey, we're not here to replace anyone, we just thought we'd join the party and bring some foreign diseases and conquering ambitions.

Yeah, because some millions of Frenchmen and Britons as a whole replaced a total of billions of South Asians and Africans. Good job mate, did you graduate with a -10 in Math, perhaps?

Oh, and I saw you said nothing about these ethnicities I brought as an example...

Or especially about your current thing in your own backyard.

[Tooting Carmen]

They aren't generalisations, they are both Africans indeed. Because, and I don't think you can deny it, and as I said: their characteristics cannot appear anywhere besides people of descent from Africa. That's why they're called Africans.

The pieds noirs were still a very tiny minority. And for South Africa, the Boers (as all whites were collectively called as by the blacks) were never above 20% of the population. The Indian subcontinent had some thousands among hundreds of millions, a coke of sand, literally. And for the other colonies: some thousands at best, all the necessary workforce for the administration, ad definitionem.

For Latin America, yes, I did forget them, but weren't the indigenous in these countries still too few compared to the territories near the equator? Especially for Argentina, I haven't heard about many indigenous people near the Rio de la Plata.

20% of Whites in countries like South Africa, Namibia and Zimbabwe is far from tiny, and is bigger than the non-white populations in most of Europe even today. Not to mention the appalling Apartheid systems the Whites set up in them. In Argentina, there were some indigenous people present from colonial times, but many were massacred in the early days of independence by the new Criollo elite. Anyway, my point is that while you are certainly correct that the amount of immigration into Europe nowadays is way in excess of the number of Europeans who settled in the majority of Asia and Africa, it is more nuanced than what you were claiming.

[Florstadt]

Yeah, because some millions of Frenchmen and Britons as a whole replaced a total of billions of South Asians and Africans. Good job mate, did you graduate with a -10 in Math, perhaps?

Oh, and I saw you said nothing about these ethnicities I brought as an example...

Or especially about your current thing in your own backyard.

European colonialism, altering the demographic balance in just one measly quarter of the world's land. It's like they played a real-life game of "Demographic Dominoes" and accidentally knocked over a tiny portion of the global population. I guess the other three-quarters of the world were just busy sipping tea and enjoying a peaceful demographic equilibrium, completely unaffected by those mischievous Europeans. Oh, the power of selective geography...

[Zeno]

European colonialism, altering the demographic balance in just one measly quarter of the world's land. It's like they played a real-life game of "Demographic Dominoes" and accidentally knocked over a tiny portion of the global population. I guess the other three-quarters of the world were just busy sipping tea and enjoying a peaceful demographic equilibrium, completely unaffected by those mischievous Europeans. Oh, the power of selective geography...

Your "muh colonialism" spiel is getting too tiresome, and you're playing that game towards a person whose nation never partook in all of this and was in fact colonised (or more accurately downright conquered) and still gets thousands of them per year and has up to millions in their country.

I will just give it to you straight, as I made it to you straight for your nation's activities in Gaza: past atrocities don't excuse present shit. This thing called colonialism doesn't exist now. You can't bring it up. Especially when nations who never colonised anything in modern times are also affected, like my country, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland etc. And especially when its about mass migrations of people that NEVER happened in the past, especially in this scale.


20% of Whites in countries like South Africa, Namibia and Zimbabwe is far from tiny, and is bigger than the non-white populations in most of Europe even today. Not to mention the appalling Apartheid systems the Whites set up in them. In Argentina, there were some indigenous people present from colonial times, but many were massacred in the early days of independence by the new Criollo elite. Anyway, my point is that while you are certainly correct that the amount of immigration into Europe nowadays is way in excess of the number of Europeans who settled in the majority of Asia and Africa, it is more nuanced than what you were claiming.

The historic high. Nowadays, they are far from being as numerous as the non-Europeans in many European countries. The whites in South Africa today are 8%. Non-whites in France, Britain, Germany, Sweden (who never colonised anything) are many more.

[Tooting Carmen]

Your "muh colonialism" spiel is getting too tiresome, and you're playing that game towards a person whose nation never partook in all of this and was in fact colonised (or more accurately downright conquered) and still gets thousands of them per year and has up to millions in their country.

I will just give it to you straight, as I made it to you straight for your nation's activities in Gaza: past atrocities don't excuse present shit. This thing called colonialism doesn't exist now. You can't bring it up. Especially when nations who never colonised anything in modern times are also affected, like my country, Sweden, Denmark, Norway, Finland etc. And especially when its about mass migrations of people that NEVER happened in the past, especially in this scale.



The historic high. Nowadays, they are far from being as numerous as the non-Europeans in many European countries. The whites in South Africa today are 8%. Non-whites in France, Britain, Germany, Sweden (who never colonised anything)

Even so, non-whites haven't attempted to establish Apartheid states in Europe with themselves at the top like the Whites did in Southern Africa. (True, some Islamists do want to establish an Islamic supremacist state, but they won't get very far at the end of the day). As for immigration and ethnic diversity, like I reported in another thread I opened a few days ago, around half or more of immigrants in Germany actually come from Europe. Even in the UK and Sweden, before Brexit something like 60% of immigrants here came from Europe (now of course it is a very different matter), while Sweden also has many immigrants from other Nordic countries and Eastern Europe.

[Zeno]

Even so, non-whites haven't attempted to establish Apartheid states in Europe with themselves at the top like the Whites did in Southern Africa. (True, some Islamists do want to establish an Islamic supremacist state, but they won't get very far at the end of the day). As for immigration and ethnic diversity, like I reported in another thread I opened a few days ago, around half or more of immigrants in Germany actually come from Europe. Even in the UK and Sweden, before Brexit something like 60% of immigrants here came from Europe (now of course it is a very different matter), while Sweden also has many immigrants from other Nordic countries and Eastern Europe.

That's in the past however. Because right now, new immigrants are from anywhere but Europe.

And, that's for now. See what they can do if they're let out of control.

[Scarface F]

Even so, non-whites haven't attempted to establish Apartheid states in Europe with themselves at the top like the Whites did in Southern Africa.

Obviously, since they belong to the bottom of society and reality isn't planet of the Apes.

[Italicus]

European colonialism, altering the demographic balance in just one measly quarter of the world's land. It's like they played a real-life game of "Demographic Dominoes" and accidentally knocked over a tiny portion of the global population. I guess the other three-quarters of the world were just busy sipping tea and enjoying a peaceful demographic equilibrium, completely unaffected by those mischievous Europeans. Oh, the power of selective geography...

The vast majority of European nations never did settler colonialism. That's a wide brush stroke and quite the generalization. Besides, Europeans weren't the only ones to commit settler colonialism. Ever hear of the Bantu expansion, or the expansion of Vietnam? What about the Turkic conquest of Indo European Central Asia? Or perhaps your native Israel? People killing people is a part of human history, it doesn't mean we have to feel indebted to people from shitholes.

[Italicus]

That's in the past however. Because right now, new immigrants are from anywhere but Europe.

And, that's for now. See what they can do if they're let out of control.

Not to mention, with European immigrants the immigrants and their children actually look native, even if not 100 percent. I know this sounds extremely primal, but I don't care. I'm just a human after all.

[Zeno]

Not to mention, with European immigrants the immigrants and their children actually look native, even if not 100 percent. I know this sounds extremely primal, but I don't care. I'm just a human after all.

What do you mean by that exactly?

[Italicus]

What do you mean by that exactly?

That the immigrants look like the local populace and can blend in, even if not typical. For example, a Romanian or Ukrainian would look more Italian than some random African.

[Tooting Carmen]

Obviously, since they belong to the bottom of society and reality isn't planet of the Apes.

Yet you also complain about Britain and Ireland having PMs of South Asian descent (Portugal did until recently too). In Britain, Chinese and Indians now have average incomes and academic achievement rates surpassing Whites. The ones who still tend to be much poorer are Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Caribbeans. (Even Black Africans are a mixed bag - Ghanaians being higher achievers and earners on average than Somalis, for example).

[Scarface F]

Yet you also complain about Britain and Ireland having PMs of South Asian descent (Portugal did until recently too). In Britain, Chinese and Indians now have average incomes and academic achievement rates surpassing Whites. The ones who still tend to be much poorer are Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and Caribbeans. (Even Black Africans are a mixed bag - Ghanaians being higher achievers and earners on average than Somalis, for example).

Only because there is selective high-educated Indian etc migration, not because these societies are high preforming as they are obviously not. But even if they were, it won't make them white. Europe is for Europeans, fullstop.

And mass intra-European migrations should be stopped as well.

Your wokeness is extremely irritating.

[Tooting Carmen]

Only because there is selective high-educated Indian etc migration, not because these societies are high preforming as they are obviously not. But even if they were, it won't make them white. Europe is for Europeans, fullstop.

And mass intra-European migrations should be stopped as well.

Your wokeness is extremely irritating.

I don't support anything like open borders. But this idea that all non-whites are uniformly poor and live in neighbourhoods like Clichy-sous-Bois is a gross exaggeration too; besides, that still doesn't go past the fact that the White minorities in Southern Africa set up a system of discriminatory racial laws unparalleled anywhere else apart from the Southern USA and (at a much more extreme rate) Nazi Germany.

[happycow]

I guess I am supposed to hate ISrael as I am palestinian. I used to harbor much hate for Jews and Israel, but not no longer.

The situation there atm is certainly very bad though. I want peace, as cliche as that sounds at now, but so long as islam prevails not such thing will happen.

[Tooting Carmen]

I guess I am supposed to hate ISrael as I am palestinian. I used to harbor much hate for Jews and Israel, but not no longer.

The situation there atm is certainly very bad though. I want peace, as cliche as that sounds at now, but so long as islam prevails not such thing will happen.

A message of hope and peace from an Irishman:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpYr3o10mmY

[Scarface F]

I don't support anything like open borders. But this idea that all non-whites are uniformly poor and live in neighbourhoods like Clichy-sous-Bois is a gross exaggeration too; besides, that still doesn't go past the fact that the White minorities in Southern Africa set up a system of discriminatory racial laws unparalleled anywhere else apart from the Southern USA and (at a much more extreme rate) Nazi Germany.

I don't think non whites are any worse or less worth than whites. And I think world would have been much better place without colonialism - for both sides.

[Tooting Carmen]

I don't think non whites are any worse or less worth than whites. And I think world would have been much better place without colonialism - for both sides.

Bingo.

[Zeno]

I don't support anything like open borders. But this idea that all non-whites are uniformly poor and live in neighbourhoods like Clichy-sous-Bois is a gross exaggeration too; besides, that still doesn't go past the fact that the White minorities in Southern Africa set up a system of discriminatory racial laws unparalleled anywhere else apart from the Southern USA and (at a much more extreme rate) Nazi Germany.

Yep, that's in the past however.

This doesn't exist for 30 years now.

Right now, at the moment, the discrimination against whites is much worse than what it was once against blacks. Because blacks do to whites something that it wasn't done vice versa, on a much bigger scale: killing them en masse. The killings of white farmers, targeted exclusively towards whites, is something that is done out of mere spite, while blacks have absolute power in all levels of government, that can't excuse anything in terms of "racial discrimination" as all ANC officials are both the most powerful and the richest people in the country.

As I said before: let non-Europeans completely out of control, and see what happens. They already have imposed their laws in various minor districts in different European countries.

And before anyone says anything about colonialism: it was bad, and should never have happened. It doesn't excuse what happens now however, and that's the main takeaway.

[Celine]

Nope, I love it.