I found a calc that works for my family!

[Jana]

And it's K12b.

I ran simple 3-way model for me and my parents

ME:

Distance: 2.2991% / 2.29910793

55.5 Ukrainian
27.1 Italian_Marche
17.4 German

UA= early Slavic proxy
Marche = pre-Slavic population of Croatia proxy
German = recent German ancestry proxy

This works perfectly because it shows my Slavic-Balkan ratio is very typical Croat, but reduced by German admixture which is almost perfectly in line with my paper trail (17.4% vs 16%)!

Now my mother:

Target: Mom
Distance: 1.6468% / 1.64683267

40.0 Ukrainian
31.5 German
28.5 Italian_Abruzzo

For my mother I used Abruzzo, first region south from Marche, because my mother is part Serb (and Serbs have more southernly pre-Slavic part than Croats), and also part Greek.
German was used because her German like mine is mix of various German regions. It comes almost perfectly in line with paper trail again (31.5% vs cca. 30%)
Her Slavic is greatly reduced compared to Croat average and this is something I noticed already in her FTNDA results.

And finally father

Target: Dad
Distance: 1.2539% / 1.25389612

66.1 Ukrainian
29.3 Italian_Marche
4.6 German_Northwest

My father is full SW Slav and typical Croat, as you can see his Slavic-Balkan ration is uber typical. He has minor Germanic component because his grandma comes from north Croat village settled by Saxon miners in medieval (thus I used NW German), but he can be considered representative of full Croat genetically. For him I again used Marche just like for myself which is pre-Slavic proxy both for Croats and Bosniaks according to extensive tests I ran.

All in all, I come exactly between my parents in this.
My father is modeled like typical Croat, mother is very atypical and I am right between them, with results fully in line with my paper trail ancestry.

[Leto]

Quite good indeed! Can you model Serb, Croat & Bosnian with those references? I mean no one has updated them, we don't even know where those samples come from.

EDIT:
Nevermind, I've run them myself

Target: Bosnian
Distance: 1.3697% / 1.36972606
65.1 Ukrainian
22.3 Italian_Marche
12.6 Italian_Abruzzo

Target: Croat
Distance: 1.6268% / 1.62680909
62.8 Ukrainian
33.3 Italian_Marche
3.9 German_Northwest

Target: Serb
Distance: 1.5428% / 1.54275365
54.5 Ukrainian
39.8 Italian_Marche
5.7 Italian_Abruzzo

I guess this looks more or less realistic, doesn't it?

[Dušan]

Quite good indeed! Can you model Serb, Croat & Bosnian with those references? I mean no one has updated them, we don't even know where those samples come from.

I put Russian, Ukrainian, Polish and Belarussian samples as Slavic proxy, and Greek and Italian samples as Balkan pre-Slavic proxy.

Closest 2-way mode is mostly Pole+Greek, not Ukrainian+Italian, as I thought.


Distance to: Serb
1.00845848 44.60% Polish + 55.40% Greek_Thessaly
1.08526236 45.60% Polish + 54.40% Greek_Thrace
1.24956103 43.80% Polish_Warmia-Masuria + 56.20% Greek_Thessaloniki
1.35873359 51.40% Russian_Voronezh + 48.60% Italian_Marche
1.38634071 51.20% Polish_Mazovia + 48.80% Italian_Marche
1.42655135 48.80% Russian_Voronezh + 51.20% Italian_Romagna
1.46200384 49.80% Polish_Mazovia + 50.20% Italian_Lazio
1.51636949 51.80% Polish + 48.20% Greek_Central
1.54894530 42.80% Polish_Warmia-Masuria + 57.20% Greek_Thessaly
1.54994364 50.40% Polish_Warmia-Masuria + 49.60% Greek_Athens
1.57356330 54.20% Ukrainian + 45.80% Italian_Marche
1.58745769 50.40% Belorussian + 49.60% Italian_Marche
1.59411530 43.80% Polish_Warmia-Masuria + 56.20% Greek_Thrace
1.60507320 45.60% Polish + 54.40% Greek_Thessaloniki
1.61010401 52.40% Polish + 47.60% Greek_Athens
1.63449547 49.80% Russian_Smolensk + 50.20% Italian_Marche
1.65142636 48.80% Belorussian + 51.20% Italian_Lazio
1.66174380 58.80% Polish + 41.20% Italian_Campania
1.70618532 48.60% Russian_Kursk + 51.40% Italian_Romagna
1.72578243 50.00% Russian_Voronezh + 50.00% Italian_Lazio


Distance to: Dušan
2.64714153 52.60% Polish + 47.40% Greek_Thessaloniki
2.86615440 50.60% Polish_Mazovia + 49.40% Greek_Thessaly
2.91276666 58.60% Polish + 41.40% Greek_Athens
2.95686588 51.20% Polish_Mazovia + 48.80% Greek_Thessaloniki
2.97706189 51.60% Polish_Mazovia + 48.40% Greek_Thrace
3.01282289 68.00% Polish + 32.00% Greek_Icaria
3.03249818 49.40% Belorussian + 50.60% Greek_Thessaly
3.05460403 52.00% Polish + 48.00% Greek_Thessaly
3.07689569 58.20% Russian_Voronezh + 41.80% Italian_Marche
3.08992706 52.80% Polish + 47.20% Greek_Thrace
3.10237006 50.00% Belorussian + 50.00% Greek_Thessaloniki
3.10572032 56.00% Russian_Voronezh + 44.00% Italian_Romagna
3.11991070 58.20% Polish + 41.80% Greek_Central
3.13725689 42.80% Polish + 57.20% Greek_Macedonia
3.13905646 50.40% Belorussian + 49.60% Greek_Thrace
3.16534873 61.00% Polish + 39.00% Greek_Foca
3.20843572 57.40% Polish_Mazovia + 42.60% Greek_Athens
3.23720670 53.80% Ukrainian + 46.20% Greek_Thessaly
3.25410597 49.00% Russian_Smolensk + 51.00% Greek_Thessaly
3.28920525 54.40% Ukrainian + 45.60% Greek_Thessaloniki

[Leto]

Also Slovenian and Montenegrin

Target: Slovenian
Distance: 1.7071% / 1.70710907
52.7 Ukrainian
25.6 German_Northwest
21.7 Italian_Marche

Target: Montenegrin
Distance: 2.0311% / 2.03110924
46.2 Ukrainian
38.4 Italian_Marche
15.4 Italian_Abruzzo

[Jana]

I put Russian, Ukrainian, Polish and Belarussian samples as Slavic proxy, and Greek and Italian samples as Balkan pre-Slavic proxy.

Closest 2-way mode is mostly Pole+Greek, not Ukrainian+Italian, as I thought.


Distance to: Serb
1.00845848 44.60% Polish + 55.40% Greek_Thessaly
1.08526236 45.60% Polish + 54.40% Greek_Thrace
1.24956103 43.80% Polish_Warmia-Masuria + 56.20% Greek_Thessaloniki
1.35873359 51.40% Russian_Voronezh + 48.60% Italian_Marche
1.38634071 51.20% Polish_Mazovia + 48.80% Italian_Marche
1.42655135 48.80% Russian_Voronezh + 51.20% Italian_Romagna
1.46200384 49.80% Polish_Mazovia + 50.20% Italian_Lazio
1.51636949 51.80% Polish + 48.20% Greek_Central
1.54894530 42.80% Polish_Warmia-Masuria + 57.20% Greek_Thessaly
1.54994364 50.40% Polish_Warmia-Masuria + 49.60% Greek_Athens
1.57356330 54.20% Ukrainian + 45.80% Italian_Marche
1.58745769 50.40% Belorussian + 49.60% Italian_Marche
1.59411530 43.80% Polish_Warmia-Masuria + 56.20% Greek_Thrace
1.60507320 45.60% Polish + 54.40% Greek_Thessaloniki
1.61010401 52.40% Polish + 47.60% Greek_Athens
1.63449547 49.80% Russian_Smolensk + 50.20% Italian_Marche
1.65142636 48.80% Belorussian + 51.20% Italian_Lazio
1.66174380 58.80% Polish + 41.20% Italian_Campania
1.70618532 48.60% Russian_Kursk + 51.40% Italian_Romagna
1.72578243 50.00% Russian_Voronezh + 50.00% Italian_Lazio


Distance to: Dušan
2.64714153 52.60% Polish + 47.40% Greek_Thessaloniki
2.86615440 50.60% Polish_Mazovia + 49.40% Greek_Thessaly
2.91276666 58.60% Polish + 41.40% Greek_Athens
2.95686588 51.20% Polish_Mazovia + 48.80% Greek_Thessaloniki
2.97706189 51.60% Polish_Mazovia + 48.40% Greek_Thrace
3.01282289 68.00% Polish + 32.00% Greek_Icaria
3.03249818 49.40% Belorussian + 50.60% Greek_Thessaly
3.05460403 52.00% Polish + 48.00% Greek_Thessaly
3.07689569 58.20% Russian_Voronezh + 41.80% Italian_Marche
3.08992706 52.80% Polish + 47.20% Greek_Thrace
3.10237006 50.00% Belorussian + 50.00% Greek_Thessaloniki
3.10572032 56.00% Russian_Voronezh + 44.00% Italian_Romagna
3.11991070 58.20% Polish + 41.80% Greek_Central
3.13725689 42.80% Polish + 57.20% Greek_Macedonia
3.13905646 50.40% Belorussian + 49.60% Greek_Thrace
3.16534873 61.00% Polish + 39.00% Greek_Foca
3.20843572 57.40% Polish_Mazovia + 42.60% Greek_Athens
3.23720670 53.80% Ukrainian + 46.20% Greek_Thessaly
3.25410597 49.00% Russian_Smolensk + 51.00% Greek_Thessaly
3.28920525 54.40% Ukrainian + 45.60% Greek_Thessaloniki

Yeah, but you shouldn't use Poles/Greeks because Poles aren't pure Slav and Greeks already have Slavic admixture.

[Jana]

Also Slovenian and Montenegrin

Target: Slovenian
Distance: 1.7071% / 1.70710907
52.7 Ukrainian
25.6 German_Northwest
21.7 Italian_Marche

Target: Montenegrin
Distance: 2.0311% / 2.03110924
46.2 Ukrainian
38.4 Italian_Marche
15.4 Italian_Abruzzo

For Slovenians pre-Slavic proxy should be more northern than Marche, due to Celtic admix (same for Hungarians and NW Croats), something more north Italian/Iberian like.
This looks very good for Montenegrins.

[vbnetkhio]

Quite good indeed! Can you model Serb, Croat & Bosnian with those references? I mean no one has updated them, we don't even know where those samples come from.

EDIT:
Nevermind, I've run them myself

Target: Bosnian
Distance: 1.3697% / 1.36972606
65.1 Ukrainian
22.3 Italian_Marche
12.6 Italian_Abruzzo

Target: Croat
Distance: 1.6268% / 1.62680909
62.8 Ukrainian
33.3 Italian_Marche
3.9 German_Northwest

Target: Serb
Distance: 1.5428% / 1.54275365
54.5 Ukrainian
39.8 Italian_Marche
5.7 Italian_Abruzzo

I guess this looks more or less realistic, doesn't it?

I sent you the Serb and Montenegrin averages, from a Serbian forum, remember.
I thought you ran the Croats, Slovenians and Bosnians from the academic kits. Maybe Lucas did it then.

[Leto]

I sent you the Serb and Montenegrin averages, from a Serbian forum, remember.
I thought you ran the Croats, Slovenians and Bosnians from the academic kits. Maybe Lucas did it then.
No, I don't remember that. Those averages have been in the list forever.
I won't be updating these countries because they have plenty of representatives on this forum.

[Leto]

For Slovenians pre-Slavic proxy should be more northern than Marche, due to Celtic admix (same for Hungarians and NW Croats), something more north Italian/Iberian like.
This looks very good for Montenegrins.
Maybe Italian_Veneto would be better but I already closed the tab, can't do it again.

[Jana]

Maybe Italian_Veneto would be better but I already closed the tab, can't do it again.

Veneto is bit too northern, it's good for pre-Roman Noricans but they also received some Roman admix. Thus north region like Lombardy which is not too northern is best choice, IMO.

Target: Slovenian
Distance: 0.8595% / 0.85951788

61.5 Ukrainian
30.3 Italian_Lombardy
8.2 German_Northwest

German nw was used because their German isn't recent but mainly medieval, and in that time Bavarians who came there were unadmixed with Slavs and Kelts.

if I use generic German, difference is minimal anyway (for those recently admixed with Germans Austrian would be more suitable after all)

Target: Slovenian
Distance: 0.8823% / 0.88226622

59.0 Ukrainian
30.0 Italian_Lombardy
11.0 German

[Lucas]

I sent you the Serb and Montenegrin averages, from a Serbian forum, remember.
I thought you ran the Croats, Slovenians and Bosnians from the academic kits. Maybe Lucas did it then.
I don, t remember any Balkann user updates for Dodecad. We can try with recent academic kits.

[vbnetkhio]

I don, t remember any Balkann user updates for Dodecad. We can try with recent academic kits.

Croats, Slovenians and Bosnians weren't in the original sheet. I think you ran the academic kits and added them when you started the vahaduo tools page.

[Jana]

Croats, Slovenians and Bosnians weren't in the original sheet. I think you ran the academic kits and added them when you started the vahaduo tools page.

What about my model? Do you think it's good?

[vbnetkhio]

What about my model? Do you think it's good?

yes, it really makes sense. k12b is more simplistic than k13, but i suppose then the components are also more stable, so you don't get that increased west asian.

[Leto]

I don, t remember any Balkann user updates for Dodecad. We can try with recent academic kits.
Only after you merge the Russians into Russian_Southwest ;)

[Leto]

Croats, Slovenians and Bosnians weren't in the original sheet. I think you ran the academic kits and added them when you started the vahaduo tools page.
The Bosnians, Croats and Serbs are from an old spreadsheet compiled by a Turk on AG.

[RyoHazuki]

You inspired me to try something similar with K12b
Irish: Isles ancestry
German: Continental Celtic-Germanic ancestry
Catalonia: Southwest Med ancestry


Target: Ryo
Distance: 2.2135% / 2.21350292 | ADC: 0.25x RC
48.5 German
31.1 Irish
20.4 Spanish_Catalonia

Target: Ryo
Distance: 3.2494% / 3.24942105 | R2P | ADC: 0.25x RC
72.5 German
27.5 Spanish_Catalonia

It turned quite well too, mostly

[oszkar07]

I tried the updated Dodecad K12b and got some ok results in the 2way.

Distance to: Oszkar

1.53836135 49.00% English + 51.00% Hungarian_North
1.45896086 45.80% English + 54.20% Hungarian_Alföld
1.46238820 45.00% English_North + 55.00% Hungarian_Alföld

[17571imre]

Distance to: Imre(Hungarian_1/4Dutch)
0.97132789 31.80% Italian_Campania + 68.20% Swedish
1.07190684 42.00% French_Northeast + 58.00% Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
1.08930389 34.00% Italian_Abruzzo + 66.00% Swedish
1.13981869 52.60% English_North + 47.40% Moldovan_South
1.18045290 27.80% Greek_Icaria + 72.20% Swedish
1.21000579 30.00% Italian_Calabria + 70.00% Swedish
1.22131058 49.00% Moldovan_South + 51.00% Scottish
1.23964225 34.00% Italian_Apulia + 66.00% Swedish
1.26483294 54.40% English + 45.60% Moldovan_South
1.27741774 39.40% French_North + 60.60% Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
1.30746464 55.60% English_South + 44.40% Moldovan_South
1.31962846 55.40% Icelandic + 44.60% Macedonian_South
1.32019606 61.20% English + 38.80% Pomak_Greece
1.32148820 49.00% Irish + 51.00% Moldovan_South
1.35230538 38.20% Greek_Thessaloniki + 61.80% Icelandic
1.35492199 64.60% Danish + 35.40% Greek_Central
1.35564242 70.00% German + 30.00% Italian_Marche
1.35727981 62.40% English_South + 37.60% Pomak_Greece
1.36125246 65.20% Danish + 34.80% Greek_Athens
1.36732083 68.60% German_Northwest + 31.40% Greek_Peloponnese
1.37097394 65.80% German_Northwest + 34.20% Greek_Thrace
1.37318225 65.00% German_Northwest + 35.00% Greek_Thessaly
1.37415642 70.60% German_Northwest + 29.40% Greek_Athens
1.37546612 32.00% Italian_Sicily + 68.00% Swedish
1.37563130 59.60% English_North + 40.40% Pomak_Greece

for me docedad works very strange. The balance seems way off

and with Feiichy calculator:
Target: Imre(Hungarian_1/4Dutch)
Distance: 1.3556% / 1.35564242
70.0 German
30.0 Italian_Marche

no sign of slavic

[Jana]

Distance to: Imre(Hungarian_1/4Dutch)
0.97132789 31.80% Italian_Campania + 68.20% Swedish
1.07190684 42.00% French_Northeast + 58.00% Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
1.08930389 34.00% Italian_Abruzzo + 66.00% Swedish
1.13981869 52.60% English_North + 47.40% Moldovan_South
1.18045290 27.80% Greek_Icaria + 72.20% Swedish
1.21000579 30.00% Italian_Calabria + 70.00% Swedish
1.22131058 49.00% Moldovan_South + 51.00% Scottish
1.23964225 34.00% Italian_Apulia + 66.00% Swedish
1.26483294 54.40% English + 45.60% Moldovan_South
1.27741774 39.40% French_North + 60.60% Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
1.30746464 55.60% English_South + 44.40% Moldovan_South
1.31962846 55.40% Icelandic + 44.60% Macedonian_South
1.32019606 61.20% English + 38.80% Pomak_Greece
1.32148820 49.00% Irish + 51.00% Moldovan_South
1.35230538 38.20% Greek_Thessaloniki + 61.80% Icelandic
1.35492199 64.60% Danish + 35.40% Greek_Central
1.35564242 70.00% German + 30.00% Italian_Marche
1.35727981 62.40% English_South + 37.60% Pomak_Greece
1.36125246 65.20% Danish + 34.80% Greek_Athens
1.36732083 68.60% German_Northwest + 31.40% Greek_Peloponnese
1.37097394 65.80% German_Northwest + 34.20% Greek_Thrace
1.37318225 65.00% German_Northwest + 35.00% Greek_Thessaly
1.37415642 70.60% German_Northwest + 29.40% Greek_Athens
1.37546612 32.00% Italian_Sicily + 68.00% Swedish
1.37563130 59.60% English_North + 40.40% Pomak_Greece

for me docedad works very strange. The balance seems way off

and with Feiichy calculator:
Target: Imre(Hungarian_1/4Dutch)
Distance: 1.3556% / 1.35564242
70.0 German
30.0 Italian_Marche

no sign of slavic

Why are you using Italian Marche though? That's not a proxy for Hungarian pre Slavic part.
Everyone needs to design their own model in accordance with their ancestry, this one works for me and nobody else should be using it because they don't have same ancestry as I do.
Plus you are part Dutch, not German.