The most important Germanic country?

[Albion]

Which Germanic country is most important to the culture?

This can be based on territory, economy, empires, science, history or whatever you want.

Which is the most important country in the Germanic cultural group in your opinion and why?

[Albion]

I'd have to say Germany. It's the heart of Europe and was important as the staging point for the Germanic migrations.
Also it's had a lot of offshoot ethnicities such as the Dutch.

[research_centre]

I am going to vote Germany, but frankly their policies and programmes since the end of WWII I do not support.

[Storm 1995]

Faroer islands.

[morski]

I was gonna vote Austria because of the Habsburgs and the positive impact their empire had on East-Central Europe but accidentally checked Liechtenstein. Still
The Private Art Collection of the Prince of Liechtenstein, one of the world's leading private art collections, is shown at the Liechtenstein Museum in Vienna.

[Wulfhere]

Mercia.

[Albion]

Mercia.

Yeah right. It hasn't existed for centuries for a start...

[Stars Down To Earth]

I have to swallow my Scottish honour and be totally objective here.
The Anglo-Saxons are surely the most successful "tribe" in human history.

(Although I'm part Anglo-Saxon myself, anyways. :tongue)

[Wulfhere]

Yeah right. It hasn't existed for centuries for a start...

As an independent state, you mean? Nor has England.

[Sahson]

Austria, because of the Austro-hungarian empire. Wien was one of the greatest cities of it's time to grace the Earth. Many intellects came from Austria, and Vieenese coffee.

Mozart, Liszt, Czerny, Haydn, Mahler, Schoenberg, Johann Strauss.

then you have other greats such as - Ferdinand Porsche(inventor of Porsche, and designer of the Volkswagen - which is one of the largest successful automotive companies in the world, which built the Bugatti Veyron, and owns Bentley.), Nikola Tesla, Alois Negrelli(planned the Suez Canal), Gaston Glock(think of guns), Anselm Franz(pioneer in JEt engineering).

Philosophers like Edmund Hurssel, Karl Popper, and others fromt he vienna circle (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vienna_Circle).

Physicians, Physicist, and mathematicians like Hans Asperger, Christian Doppler, Ernst Mach, Gernot Zippe, as well as many Austrians whom have won Nobel prize awards for their contributions.

The list goes on.

[SaxonCeorl]

Any place with Germanic blood becomes very important ;)

[Nglund]

Skadi forum...

[Leliana]

Hands up for Deutschland and Österreich! :)

[Mordid]

FUCK SKADI FORUM!

[Sylvanus]

Nowadays England, of course. However in the last thausend years the Holy Roman Empire was the more important until the eightteens.

[Wanderlust]

Voted for England.

[Mordid]

Voted for England.

Yes, fish and chip tastes so delicious.

[Peyrol]

Hands up for Deutschland and Österreich! :)

I agree, Germania (Deutschland) and Marcomannia Pannonica (Osterreich), plus Scandinavia, the fatherland of all the germanic tribes.

[Albion]

We need more votes for England :D It looks like it's between Germany and us.

[Foxy]

From a cultural point of view Germany. Philosophy, music, art, science... For a period Germany has been the new Greece. It's a pity that during the 2nd WW most of the German cities have been destroyed and that the reputation of Germans has decaied so much.

[Leliana]

I agree, Germania (Deutschland) and Marcomannia Pannonica (Osterreich), plus Scandinavia, the fatherland of all the germanic tribes.
Germany and Italy are the two crown jewels of Europe. One of the Germanic world and one of the Romance world. :) Interaction between our two countries has often been productive and worthwhile. That's my view, that is.

Ewige Freunde! Amici eterno!
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/41785_108713030120_891_n.jpg

[SwordoftheVistula]

I'd have to vote for Germany, assuming it encompasses all the assorted cities, states, kingdoms, duchies, etc between the low countries and Austria/Bohemia.

[Logan]

Angelcynn

[The Lawspeaker]

If it aint Dutch...

[SaxonCeorl]

We need more votes for England :D It looks like it's between Germany and us.

OK, I voted for England, just for amusement. This reminds me of the very hilarious England v. Spain thread from a while back.

OK, one more vote for England and they'll be tied for the lead :D

[Albion]

If it aint Dutch...

it ain't much? :D

[Wulfhere]

Out of England and Germany, which one has spread its language and culture all over the world?

[Hevneren]

I agree, Germania (Deutschland) and Marcomannia Pannonica (Osterreich), plus Scandinavia, the fatherland of all the germanic tribes.

It took an Italian to give props to "The Womb of Nations", Scandinavia. :thumbs up

Anyway, I voted England because it spread its language the furthest, made many important inventions, had the largest empire and didn't start two world wars (unlike some other country... cough.... cough).

[Libertas]

Out of England and Germany, which one has spread its language and culture all over the world?

Game set and match I believe!:thumbs up

[Nglund]

This reminds me of the very hilarious England v. Spain thread from a while back.

OK, one more vote for England and they'll be tied for the lead :D

Aye, don't forget to make another poll with the two winners afterwards Albion :D

[Foxy]

Germany and Italy are the two crown jewels of Europe. One of the Germanic world and one of the Romance world. :) Interaction between our two countries has often been productive and worthwhile. That's my view, that is.

Ewige Freunde! Amici eterno!
http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/41785_108713030120_891_n.jpg

I agree, this is what I have always said since I joined this forum. Unlucky at the beginning the German users here were pretty anti-Italian. Now finally I have found a German who shares my views! :D (I study German cause I like your culture very much).

One of my favourite pictures, "Italia und Germania" of Johann Overbeck.

http://www.centrostudilaruna.it/wp-content/uploads/Italia-und-Germania.jpg

[Wulfhere]

East Germany.

[Contra Mundum]

Really a toss up between Germany and England. I went with the latter mainly because of the dominance of the English language and English colonization of North America that lead to the creation of the USA.

[SaxonCeorl]

Aye, don't forget to make another poll with the two winners afterwards Albion :D

Yes, then we can post funny pictures like this one:

http://www.inthestands.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/45212534_416_eng_owen.jpg

[Leliana]

I agree, this is what I have always said since I joined this forum. Unlucky at the beginning the German users here were pretty anti-Italian. Now finally I have found a German who shares my views! :D (I study German cause I like your culture very much).
I don't know the other Germans who were here before I came but they must have been stupid or very ignorant that they did not see the good and fruitful results of interaction between Italy and Germany in the past! It was always a exchange of wisdom, culture, goods, science and education. Just think of the Holy Roman Empire in the middle ages!

Italia, ti ho chiuso nel mio cuore. Ti voglio bene.


Out of England and Germany, which one has spread its language and culture all over the world?
Most US-Americans speak English but the majority has German ancestors, that's what I heard.

Yes, then we can post funny pictures like this one:
http://www.inthestands.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/45212534_416_eng_owen.jpg
And what was the result of the last sixteen round in World Cup 2010? :D

A tiny reminder needed? :heh: Eeeepic victory, yay!

http://www.oberlahn-express.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/deutschland-england-4-1-wm-2010.jpg
http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/01667/worldCup_1667770c.jpg

[Nglund]

A tiny reminder needed? :heh: Eeeepic victory, yay!

http://www.oberlahn-express.de/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/deutschland-england-4-1-wm-2010.jpg

Wrong flag, wrong map :dielaughing:

[Peyrol]

Wrong flag, wrong map :dielaughing:

This british map is the Michael Collins worst nightmare.

[Foxy]

I don't know the other Germans who were here before I came but they must have been stupid or very ignorant that they did not see the good and fruitful results of interaction between Italy and Germany in the past! It was always a exchange of wisdom, culture, goods, science and education. Just think of the Holy Roman Empire in the middle ages!

Italia, ti ho chiuso nel mio cuore. Ti voglio bene.




Agreed, I think that Germans had a very important role in revitilizing the culture of Italy after the fall of the Empire. And yes, if I could choice a political form for Europe I would re-establish this one:

http://www.roberto-crosio.net/1medioevo/franch12.jpg

On the other hand Italian culture has been very important for the birth of the written German culture, for the religion, etc.

Ich habe Deutschland auch in meinem Herzen. ;)

[Leliana]

Wrong flag, wrong map :dielaughing:
Now that you mention it: You're right. :embarrassed But I needed a map of the match result in a haste and didn't mind the details. Sorry to Wales, Scotland, Ireland and North Ireland. Yet the 4:1 still stands as the latest result! :D

[Damião de Góis]

Most important Germanic country? What is there to discuss?

[Wulfhere]

Most US-Americans speak English but the majority has German ancestors, that's what I heard.

That isn't true, you must have heard wrong. Neither those of English nor German ancestry form a majority there.

Interestingly, however, the Germans who went there assimilated very quickly and dropped their ancestral language in favour of English.

[Wulfhere]

Most important Germanic country? What is there to discuss?

A good point. Which is why the term "Germanic" - purely a linguistic term - is so highly misleading.

[_______]

england and germany were historically the most important, but they have lost all control of their borders. norway remains relatively unpoisoned...

[The Lawspeaker]

Most important Germanic country? What is there to discuss?
Never mind the fact that the Germans call themselves Deutsch and their country Deutschland and that Germanisch is only used to denote Germanic tribes, the Germanic languages etc.

[Leliana]

Interestingly, however, the Germans who went there assimilated very quickly and dropped their ancestral language in favour of English.
But many were forced to drop it in the times of the two world wars.

[Albion]

But many were forced to drop it in the times of the two world wars.

I think most would have dropped it anyway since most North Europeans were good immigrants who actually bothered to assimilate into the culture of the countries they went to.

[Contra Mundum]

That isn't true, you must have heard wrong. Neither those of English nor German ancestry form a majority there.

Interestingly, however, the Germans who went there assimilated very quickly and dropped their ancestral language in favour of English.

Correct. I believe Americans claiming some German ancestry is around 50 million with English being a close second, then Irish. In 1990 it was 58 million. The total numbers for all 3 have been declining in recent years though. I'm sure more Americans than that have German and English ancestry, but are simply ignorant of it, or don't care.

Americans of Hispanic background now total 50 million including those who are there illegally.

[Nglund]

No offence to other Germanic members here, but who is responisble for the expansion of germanic linguistic branch (and culture to some extent) throughout the world?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Germanic_languages.svg/800px-Germanic_languages.svg.png

England is the most obvious answer. Other Germanic influences are insignificant in comparison.

[morski]

No offence to other Germanic members here, but who is responisble for the expansion of germanic linguistic branch (and culture to some extent) throughout the world?


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/14/Germanic_languages.svg/800px-Germanic_languages.svg.png

England is the most obvious answer. Other Germanic influences are insignificant in comparison.

Regardless Germans lead by 7 votes.

[Nglund]

Regardless Germans lead by 7 votes.

You sure about that? :confused:


Germany 16
England 14

[morski]

Plus Austria and Lichtenstein:)

[Tabiti]

Never accepted England as a typical Germanic country.

[Albion]

Never accepted England as a typical Germanic country.

Yeah, England and France have always seemed quite weird to me - you have England, perhaps the least Germanic of the Germanic countries and France, the least Romanic of the Romanics...

France is Germanic influenced with the underlying Gaulish Celts and England is Romanic influenced when it is supposed to be Germanic.

Either way, it matters little. All cultures influence each other to some degree.

[Nglund]

Plus Austria and Lichtenstein:)

Oh well :D


Never accepted England as a typical Germanic country.

It's included in the poll though, get on with it ;)

[Lithium]

Personally for me it is Denmark. It was the heart of the Germanic tribes and culture.

[Albion]

I think it would be hard to define 'typical' Germanic, Romanic or Celtic.

With Germanics you've got the relatively homogeneous Scandinavian block, then a different, entirely different Benelux / Greater Dutch one and then you have the German-speaking countries who aren't too dissimilar from the Dutch and finally you have England there in the North Sea - it's not really similar to anybody. :D

With Romanics there's such diverse peoples as the French, Romanians, Italians and Spanish - they have similarities for sure, but no one would say that the Romanians are very similar to the Portuguese would they?

With Celts there's really two groups since the Romans and Germanics took over - Brythonic and Goidelic Celts. The Brythonic Celts are quite similar - Welsh, Cornish, Bretons but the Goidelic Celts are distinct and different from the Brythonics but related to each other - Scots, Irish and Manx.


Personally for me it is Denmark. It was the heart of the Germanic tribes and culture.

True. It is really the only country which has been Germanic in its entirety since the very culture formed. It is the heartland of the Germanic culture along with North Germany and Southern Sweden.

[Magister Eckhart]

Germany. Without a doubt, the home of all our greatest philosophers, the Holy Roman Empire, the very defining spirit of Europe from beginning to end is found in Germania. The Germans are the only people to excel at both building culture and destroying it; they are representative of the European spirit, improving on their only real cultural rivals, the French and the English, to create something truly whole and total.

[Leliana]

No offence to other Germanic members here, but who is responisble for the expansion of germanic linguistic branch (and culture to some extent) throughout the world?
England is the most obvious answer. Other Germanic influences are insignificant in comparison.
And the Angles, Saxons and Jutes with their language which later became English came from where? :D Denmark and Germany.

[Baron Samedi]

Iceland.

We wouldn't really have a good view on Norse mythology and culture without the Eddas and the Sagas.

Also, their country and infrastructure seem extremely progressive as far as being at one with the environment and such.

It's also the largest enclave of Asatruar/Germanic heathens in one place.

[Albion]

And the Angles, Saxons and Jutes with their language which later became English came from where? :D Denmark and Germany.

You Germans always resort to that, it's not fair. :swl It's like saying everything we've achieved is actually due to the Germans... :eek:

[Nglund]

And the Angles, Saxons and Jutes with their language which later became English came from where? :D Denmark and Germany.

Yeah yeah, the continental governments of Denmark and Germany made England :rolleyes:...
Those are tribes, not countries.


You Germans always resort to that, it's not fair. :swl It's like saying everything we've achieved is actually due to the Germans... :eek:

Indeed. That's their lazy habit of appropriating the achievements of others by monopolising germanicism. :D

[Magister Eckhart]

Yeah yeah, the continental governments of Denmark and Germany made England :rolleyes:...
Those are tribes, not countries.

A country is just a tribe with a capital city.

[Hevneren]

And the Angles, Saxons and Jutes with their language which later became English came from where? :D Denmark and Germany.

Don't forget the Norse from Norway contributed a few centuries later, too. ;)

[Nglund]

A country is just a tribe with a capital city.

Agreed, but the leadership and formalised structure of that tribe is essential to the topic. This german claim on the Anglo-Saxon tribes is applied to a wandering people.
They were germanic tribes anyway, not german tribes ;)

[Leliana]

.
They were germanic tribes anyway, not german tribes ;)
Some Germanic tribes united to found the German lands like the Elb- and Weser-Germanen with tribes named Hermunduren, Cherusker, Langobarden, Warnen, Fosen, Semonen, Jüten, Angeln or Brukterer. Before the foundation of the German states some members of these tribes crossed over to the British Isles and settled there. They were no Germans but members of the tribes who later played a role in founding Germany. :D You can't deny that. They were the forefathers of what has later become England and Germany.

[Nglund]

Some Germanic tribes united to found the German lands like the Elb- and Weser-Germanen with tribes named Hermunduren, Cherusker, Langobarden, Warnen, Fosen, Semonen, Jüten, Angeln or Brukterer. Before the foundation of the German states some members of these tribes crossed over to the British Isles and settled there. They were no Germans but members of the tribes who later played a role in founding Germany. :D You can't deny that. They were the forefathers of what has later become England and Germany.

I don't deny that, but don't forget that the thread's entitled "The most important Germanic country".
England and the English may be viewed as an offshoot and extension of the Germanic tribes. We are historically associated and related to Germany, but not part of it. I've never denied that we share the same ancestors and forefathers.

The real question is, what makes one country the most important Germanic State? Is it its legacy? Or the quality of its achievements?

[Leliana]

Someone was editing and cheating on the poll, 5 more votes for England in two minutes are not possible. :P Cheater! :D

[Svipdag]

It was bound to be a close race between England and Germany. Those have been the two most influential Germanic nations in European history. Had it been permitted, I would have voted for both. Even if it doesn't come out quite that way, I think that the outcome should be a tie.



"DE GVSTIBVS NON EST DISPVTANDVM" - GAIVS VALERIVS CATVLLVS

[Leliana]

It was bound to be a close race between England and Germany. Those have been the two most influential Germanic nations in European history. Had it been permitted, I would have voted for both. Even if it doesn't come out quite that way, I think that the outcome should be a tie.

It's more or less a tie if you add the votes given to Austria and Liechtenstein to the German votes because these countries are German at root, too. And you're right, a tie between Germany and England would be the best and most proper final result. :)

[Albion]

Some Germanic tribes united to found the German lands like the Elb- and Weser-Germanen with tribes named Hermunduren, Cherusker, Langobarden, Warnen, Fosen, Semonen, Jüten, Angeln or Brukterer. Before the foundation of the German states some members of these tribes crossed over to the British Isles and settled there. They were no Germans but members of the tribes who later played a role in founding Germany. :D You can't deny that. They were the forefathers of what has later become England and Germany.

Yeah, like the Angles from whom the English take their name and who largely settled most of England except the south and who it appears completely left Germania...


...from the Angles, that is, the country which is called Anglia (http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angeln_(Region)), and which is said, from that time, to remain desert to this day, between the provinces of the Jutes and the Saxons, are descended the East Angles, the Midland Angles, Mercians, all the race of the Northumbrians, that is, of those nations that dwell on the north side of the river Humber, and the other nations of the English." (Bede's Ecclesiastical History of the English Nation, Book I, Chapter XV, 731 A.D.)

It's very humbling to know that much of your nation descends from such a small speck of Germany.


It's more or less a tie if you add the votes given to Austria and Liechtenstein to the German votes because these countries are German at root, too.

Yeah, yeah... no cheating allowed I'm afraid. :rolleyes:


And you're right, a tie between Germany and England would be the best and most proper final result.

You're just saying that because you're loosing. :D Don't worry, I went against my English bias and voted Germany anyway, I'm such a traitor. ;)

[Cedric]

From a cultural point of view Germany. Philosophy, music, art, science... For a period Germany has been the new Greece. It's a pity that during the 2nd WW most of the German cities have been destroyed and that the reputation of Germans has decaied so much.

If only the English had produced something of importance...like the greatest scientist of all time...or perhaps the most important event in human history...or the most popular sport in the world...or the international language of our planet...or the current world super power...




And, without sounding arrogant, I do not believe it was a pity that so many German cities were destroyed. I believe it was a pity they had a leader that took them to that point. I still respect Germany a great deal.

[Magister Eckhart]

If only the English had produced something of importance...like the greatest scientist of all time...or perhaps the most important event in human history...or the most popular sport in the world...or the international language of our planet...or the current world super power...

Empire and political power is not the end-all, be-all of greatness. You are merely Rome. Germany is Greece, and Greece gave the world far more things of greater depth than the militaristic, imperialistic, materialistic Romans. It is the Greeks, not the Romans, who reach down to us through time; even the Romans recognised it, which is why it was so important for an educated Roman to know Greek.

Also, the "greatest scientist of all time" is a highly disputable category. I could just as soon point to Copernicus (a German) or Kepler (likewise). If we want to go in that direction, though, which is of greater importance: materialistic science or the deeper, more human undertaking of philosophy? Science is the facade, it is the Imperial impetus, the drive toward the sensual and superficial - but philosophy! Philosophy is the heart, it is the core, the drive toward the spiritual rather than the physical, the felt rather than the observed, the mind rather than the body. Philosophy is what cultivates men, makes them human - science is mere tool-making. The very roots of the words reveal all: the "love of wisdom" and mere "knowledge". I can know my name, I can know that if I put my hand in the fire it will burn me, but these things do not make me wise, and they do not elevate me at all above the beasts.

England has known many things, but it is the Germans who truly love wisdom.

[rhiannon]

I went with Germany. Although, they are not the country with the highest standard of living in Europe....that distinction belongs to Norway or Sweden:)

[Wulfhere]

The English - Angles - were Ingaevones, a cultural and linguistic group that was later virtually wiped out on the Continent by the ancestors of the speakers of German. So, quite far from being descended from Germans, the English are descended from the people the Germans destroyed.

[Libertas]

Empire and political power is not the end-all, be-all of greatness. You are merely Rome. Germany is Greece, and Greece gave the world far more things of greater depth than the militaristic, imperialistic, materialistic Romans. It is the Greeks, not the Romans, who reach down to us through time; even the Romans recognised it, which is why it was so important for an educated Roman to know Greek.

Also, the "greatest scientist of all time" is a highly disputable category. I could just as soon point to Copernicus (a German) or Kepler (likewise). If we want to go in that direction, though, which is of greater importance: materialistic science or the deeper, more human undertaking of philosophy? Science is the facade, it is the Imperial impetus, the drive toward the sensual and superficial - but philosophy! Philosophy is the heart, it is the core, the drive toward the spiritual rather than the physical, the felt rather than the observed, the mind rather than the body. Philosophy is what cultivates men, makes them human - science is mere tool-making. The very roots of the words reveal all: the "love of wisdom" and mere "knowledge". I can know my name, I can know that if I put my hand in the fire it will burn me, but these things do not make me wise, and they do not elevate me at all above the beasts.

England has known many things, but it is the Germans who truly love wisdom.

Science and engineering have done more for human progress than any amount of philosophy.
BTW Copernicus was Polish.

One branch of Germans, the Prussians and their Nazi offshoots brought militarism to its peak not England, in Napoleon's words "a nation of shopkeepers."

[Hevneren]

...or the most popular sport in the world...

If you're talking about football (soccer to those across the Pond), that was invented by the Chinese.

[Hevneren]

I went with Germany. Although, they are not the country with the highest standard of living in Europe....that distinction belongs to Norway or Sweden:)

It's not Sweden. ;)

[UncleJohn]

Austria, because of the Austro-hungarian empire. Wien was one of the greatest cities of it's time to grace the Earth. Many intellects came from Austria, and Viennese coffee.

Mozart, Liszt, Czerny, Haydn, Mahler, Schoenberg, Johann Strauss.


Tomorrow I'll be in Wien to make up numbers :thumb001:
I love Vienna, the buildings, the bridges, the Zentralfriedhof, the layout of the city and its roads. ...And then there's the Staatsoper, we're hoping to see Salome by Richard Strauss.

[Wulfhere]

If you're talking about football (soccer to those across the Pond), that was invented by the Chinese.

The Chinese might have invented something like it, but there's no connection between that and the English game, which the English spread around the world.

[Hevneren]

The Chinese might have invented something like it, but there's no connection between that and the English game, which the English spread around the world.

-g62ISXCbzw

[Aces High]

England of course....i mean what language are you all communicating in for a start..?

[rhiannon]

It's not Sweden. ;)

I kinda thought so:) LOL! Sweden is up there, though.

[Wulfhere]

-g62ISXCbzw

Yes, that's exactly what I said. The Chinese might have had something similar, but there's no connection or continuity between that and the English game. And it was the English game that was spread around the world.

[The Alchemist]

Easy question.....Germany.

[Damião de Góis]

England of course....i mean what language are you all communicating in for a start..?

That's because of the US, not England.

[Aces High]

That's because of the US, not England.

The US is there because of England.

[Damião de Góis]

The US is there because of England.

Yes, but the reason why everyone speaks english is because the whole world is Americanized. For example, i grew up watching american movies, TV series and listening to american music, not english ones.
Also, foreigners all speak english in a way similar to americans, not similar to the english.

About the language thing in particular, the credit goes to America. Even in the rest of Europe, which you would think England's influence would be greater, people don't speak english with a cockney accent but they speak more like americans do.

[morski]

Yes, but the reason why everyone speaks english is because the whole world is Americanized. For example, i grew up watching american movies, TV series and listening to american music, not english ones.
Also, foreigners all speak english in a way similar to americans, not similar to the english.

About the language thing in particular, the credit goes to America. Even in the rest of Europe, which you would think England's influence would be greater, people don't speak english with a cockney accent but they speak more like americans do.

I grew up watching Blake's 7, Blackadder, Fawlty TOwers etc. and listening to the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Uriah Heep... Always liked British over American accents.

dABo_DCIdpM
:)

[Damião de Góis]

I grew up watching Blake's 7, Blackadder, Fawlty TOwers etc. and listening to the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, Uriah Heep... Always liked British over American accents.


I watched BlackAdder from those. But i was a teenager when it was aired here. When i was little i watched Knight Rider, Macgyver, etc. The only british series i remember that was aired in those days was Allo Allo.

As for music, there is probably a split in half... but anyway i see you didn't mention movies. And this is not about me prefering American things over British ones... it's just the way it is. The world is americanized, not britishified.

[morski]

I watched BlackAdder from those. But i was a teenager when it was aired here. When i was little i watched Knight Rider, Macgyver, etc. The only british series i remember that was aired in those days was Allo Allo.

As for music, there is probably a split in half... but anyway i see you didn't mention movies. And this is not about me prefering American things over British ones... it's just the way it is. The world is americanized, not britishified.

Well, films were mostly American, yeah.:)

[Aces High]

Yes, but the reason why everyone speaks english is because the whole world is Americanized.

The British empire covered two thirds of the worlds surface....thats why everybody speaks English....not because of Starsky and Hutch.;)

[UncleJohn]

As for music, there is probably a split in half... but anyway i see you didn't mention movies. And this is not about me prefering American things over British ones... it's just the way it is. The world is americanized, not britishified.

As a Brit expat. living in Switzerland I agree with you.

[Leliana]

If only the English had produced something of importance...like the greatest scientist of all time...or perhaps the most important event in human history...or the most popular sport in the world...or the international language of our planet...or the current world super power...

You're driving cars, invented by Germans, and you use computers, basically invented by a German. Many other practical inventions were created by Germans, not only philosophical or poetic creations. :) The most important event in human history: Are you talking about the landing on the moon? You know that Werner von Braun was the head of the mission, a former nazi, do you?

England and Germany are equally important and both countries have done great jobs in bringing the world ahead.

[Mordid]

The British empire covered two thirds of the worlds surface....thats why everybody speaks English....not because of Starsky and Hutch.;)

They stole your language, they couldn't make there own one up, so they borrowed yours, and no-one has asked for it back. Fuck those yanky, motherfucker

[morski]

I really enjoy how all nations pretend to have invented the computer themselves:D

[Mordid]

I really enjoy how all nations pretend to have invented the computer themselves:D

What the hell is Slavic member doing on the most important Germanic country thread? Fuck off, untermensch

[Leliana]

I really enjoy how all nations pretend to have invented the computer themselves:D

6ZOskWGZkg0
Y_kT8abgWFU

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Zuse

[morski]

6ZOskWGZkg0
Y_kT8abgWFU

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Zuse

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Atanasoff

:P

[Libertas]

Charles Babbage of England invented the computer.

[morski]

Charles Babbage of England invented the computer.

No,no, Bulgarian-American John Atanasoff did :D

[Peyrol]

What the hell is Slavic member doing on the most important Germanic country thread? Fuck off, untermensch

:laugh:

PrpZAECwPrY

[morski]

What the hell is Slavic member doing on the most important Germanic country thread? Fuck off, untermensch

I'm just a slavicised Thracian wog interested in Germanic countries.:)

[Turkophagos]

The Vandal Kingdom:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b9/Vandales.png/800px-Vandales.png

[Albion]

The English - Angles - were Ingaevones, a cultural and linguistic group that was later virtually wiped out on the Continent by the ancestors of the speakers of German. So, quite far from being descended from Germans, the English are descended from the people the Germans destroyed.

*assimilated.

I highly doubt the High Germans went on a genocidal rampage against the dwellers of the North.

Ingaevones and the two other groups just slowly amalgamated anyway to form the Germans and Dutch.


Yes, but the reason why everyone speaks english is because the whole world is Americanized. For example, i grew up watching american movies, TV series and listening to american music, not english ones.
Also, foreigners all speak english in a way similar to americans, not similar to the english.

About the language thing in particular, the credit goes to America. Even in the rest of Europe, which you would think England's influence would be greater, people don't speak english with a cockney accent but they speak more like americans do.

The world still needed a lingua franca whether or not America took the stage or not. It would have been either English, French or maybe Russian anyway.
With the British and French colonial legacies and trade links I think those are the two languages which would have retained the role of lingua francas anyway.
The only difference would be that French might have had more speakers today than it currently does.


You're driving cars, invented by Germans, and you use computers, basically invented by a German.

Computers weren't solely invented by Germans and the inspiration for the car was arguably the train. You're using the world wide web, created by an Englishman, but as with most modern inventions - it isn't the work of just one man.

[Peyrol]

The Vandal Kingdom:


...that become one of the most latinized germanic tribe :D

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_Romance

[Stars Down To Earth]

...that become one of the most latinized germanic tribe :D
I think Chimo Bayo was being a wee bit sarcastic by posting the Vandals as the most important Germanic country.

I mean, the Vandal Kingdom died on its arse when the Byzantine Greeks conquered them.

[Peyrol]

I think Chimo Bayo was being a wee bit sarcastic by posting the Vandals as the most important Germanic country.

I mean, the Vandal Kingdom died on its arse when the Byzantine Greeks conquered them.


..me too :laugh:

[Phil75231]

I didn't vote because I think Germany and England are both at the top and of too equal importance to make it possible for me to cast a vote without feeling stupid in one way or another.

Germany: Largest population in Europe, not counting Russia. Also a very large "First World" economy, plenty of industrial and educational depth, and one of the linchpins of the EU. Probably the best trained industrial workers in the EU as well (at least among the large EU nations, not sure how they'd compare against workers in the smaller nations). Largest GDP in the EU as well.

England: Not quite a Germany in a lot of respects, but an important European country itself, Germanic or not. Still, England does make up for its shortcomings vis-a-vis Germany with its global media power (most listened to media in the world, also probably #2 globally in pop culture power too..especially music and television [a very important thing if you think about it], second only to the USA). It also has a very rich literary tradition as well. Also, London is the EU's largest metropolitan area and it's also one of the global "Alpha Cities" (along with Paris, New York, and Tokyo) - not the least in that it's the financial capital of the EU in most matters.

All and all, it's about even among the Germanic countries alone. Certainly both are two of the three most important EU nations (the other being France).

[Balmung]

If i'm not mistaken wasn't Netherlands the first true capitalist nation. Didn't they also invent the Stock market? Havn't they also contributed a lot to the modern world things such as artificial organs? Discovering Bacteria? Didn't they also discover a bunch of land including Australia?

I'm sure other Germanic nations have done a lot as well for the modern world. We can't just give credit to the most popular. One or two nations can never invent everything. Its why i'm not voting. I believe all are needed to complete the puzzle not just one or two.



You're driving cars, invented by Germans, and you use computers, basically invented by a German.


It depends on what you mean by computer. The electronic computer = British. The computer in its modern form aka PC's = American. The Internet = American. World Wide Web = British.

[Phil75231]

If i'm not mistaken wasn't Netherlands the first true capitalist nation. Didn't they also invent the Stock market? Havn't they also contributed a lot to the modern world things such as artificial organs? Discovering Bacteria? Didn't they also discover a bunch of land including Australia?

I took the question to mean "most important in the late 20th and early 21st centuries".


I'm sure other Germanic nations have done a lot as well for the modern world. We can't just give credit to the most popular. One or two nations can never invent everything. Its why i'm not voting. I believe all are needed to complete the puzzle not just one or two.

Linus Torvalds, a Swedish Finn, developed Linux. Ericcson, the mobile phone company, is Swedish. Shell is a Dutch petrol (gas) station chain. Dutch especially proved great flood control engineers. The Dutch invented the microscope as well. Søren Kierkegaard (Danish) is widely regarded as the father of Existentialism. Sophus Lie (Norwegian) developed what are called Lie Groups, with all kinds of applications in the real world -- including quantum physics.



It depends on what you mean by computer. The electronic computer = British. The computer in its modern form aka PC's = American. The Internet = American. World Wide Web = British.

A little nitpick here. A Briton did develop the WWW, although it was at CERN in Geneva, rather than at Cambridge or Oxford or St Andrews. Still, the idea and work did come from a Briton brain and Briton fingers...so I suppose that still counts (but that's just me being picky, as I said).

[Scrapple]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konrad_Zuse


Konrad Zuse (German pronunciation: [ˈkɔnʁat ˈtsuːzə]; 1910–1995) was a German civil engineer and computer pioneer. His greatest achievement was the world's first functional program-controlled Turing-complete computer, the Z3, which became operational in May 1941.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Turing :D

Anyway the first computer was a textile loom http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punched_card

In the end the computer was the result of the work of people from many nations.

[Leliana]

It depends on what you mean by computer. The electronic computer = British. The computer in its modern form aka PC's = American. The Internet = American. World Wide Web = British.
That's not true in the form you present it and you conceal the German part in it.


Konrad Zuse's electromechanical "Z machines": The Z3 (1941) was the first working machine featuring binary arithmetic, including floating point arithmetic and a measure of programmability.

In 1998 the Z3 was proved to be Turing complete, therefore being the world's first operational computer.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer


1935-1938: Konrad Zuse builds Z1, world's first program-controlled computer. Despite certain mechanical engineering problems it had all the basic ingredients of modern machines, using the binary system and today's standard separation of storage and control. Zuse's 1936 patent application (Z23139/GMD Nr. 005/021) also suggests a von Neumann architecture (re-invented in 1945) with program and data modifiable in storage.

1941: Zuse completes Z3, world's first fully functional programmable computer.

1945: Zuse describes Plankalkuel, world's first higher-level programming language, containing many standard features of today's programming languages. FORTRAN came almost a decade later. Zuse also used Plankalkuel to design world's first chess program.

1946: Zuse founds world's first computer startup company: the Zuse-Ingenieurbüro Hopferau. Venture capital raised through ETH Zürich and an IBM option on Zuse's patents.

http://www.idsia.ch/~juergen/zuse.html

Zuse's company was incorporated by IBM later. :D

See also:

http://s7.directupload.net/images/111024/mxe9e4hf.jpg

[askra]

germanic=germany

i obviously have voted Germany.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

Germany. By far. Around the Baltic sea for example, we are very much "Germanified" culturally since early medieval times. The reason is simple. As most innovations and new cultural ideas emerged to us northeners they were often mediated by German peoples or institutions (Hanseatic league, Livonian order). Germany has always been very populous also so a lot of peoples have left Germany and ended up with us, starting form pre-historical times.

Nevertheless, I don't like them since they obviously are too continental and should not to trusted. Ever.

We even have a pro verb for it: "Saksa on paska maa". :)

[Turkophagos]

I think Chimo Bayo was being a wee bit sarcastic by posting the Vandals as the most important Germanic country.

I mean, the Vandal Kingdom died on its arse when the Byzantine Greeks conquered them.

They contributed to the world civilisation with the beautiful word of "vandalism". If not the most important German state, then definitely the most representative.

[StonyArabia]

The English

[Leliana]

They contributed to the world civilisation with the beautiful word of "vandalism". If not the most important German state, then definitely the most representative.
Every time I see a post of you about Germany it's full of hate and refusal. What personal experience was so incisive that it left such strong impact? :( Is it pathological or is it just enviousness!?

[Turkophagos]

Every time I see a post of you about Germany it's full of hate and refusal. What personal experience was so incisive that it left such strong impact? :( Is it pathological!?

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3738/angelamerkel1.jpg


I almost lost my vision after seeing this picture.

[Leliana]

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3738/angelamerkel1.jpg


I almost lost my vision after seeing this picture.
Do you think all Germans like Angela Merkel? :rolleyes:

[beaver]

Germans are different from Anglo-Saxons from the eastern point of view. Two different subcivilizations

[The Lawspeaker]

Do you think all Germans like Angela Merkel? :rolleyes:
I think that the Germans despise her as much as your neighbours to the West do (we Dutch will have to dig in our wallets as well in order to bail-out "Greece" (read.. the banks) at the order of Merkozy) or the Greeks for that matter.

[Libertas]

http://img14.imageshack.us/img14/3738/angelamerkel1.jpg


I almost lost my vision after seeing this picture.

Some things are best left hidden.:eek:

[Simply Nordic]

Shouldnt Northern Italy be added to the poll since they consider themselves Germanic?

[Libertas]

Shouldnt Northern Italy be added to the poll since they consider themselves Germanic?

Stop trolling.:D
Did you know that the Germans used to call Bergamo in northern Italy WELSCH (ie FOREIGN) BERGEN?

[Balmung]

I would give Britain the edge over Germany. In terms of technical achievements and getting their people and influence outside their own continent. They have a very recognizable strong pressence in America, Australia, Canada etc than any other Germanic group. The only noticeable "German" type phenotypes in America are probably in its most northern areas but even those areas are largely populated by Anglos. The Brits have succesfully made their language pretty much standard in the west; conquered the western world; and are now the dominant power as far as western media goes. Remember, it is the British accent that is standard in most films about Rome or any other ancient era. I'd say they've been pretty damn successful.

[Simply Nordic]

Stop trolling.:D
Did you know that the Germans used to call Bergamo in northern Italy WELSCH (ie FOREIGN) BERGEN?

:eek::eek::eek: But it would be like denying an identical twin is related to you

[Nurzat]

VOTED GERMANY

[Balmung]

The British empire covered two thirds of the worlds surface....thats why everybody speaks English....not because of Starsky and Hutch.;)

This is true, but the popularity of American culture in foreign nations espeacialy those in East Asia certainly helped. America is the reason you see all them Asian popstars insert Engrish words in their songs, lol. America rising as the dominant world power being a mostly english speaking nation also helped. The US with its dominance of international corporations helped make English the language of buisness.

[jerney]

Do you think all Germans like Angela Merkel? :rolleyes:

He's screwing and marrying one, so I don't think so.

[Logan]

The British empire covered two thirds of the worlds surface....thats why everybody speaks English....not because of Starsky and Hutch.;)

:thumb001:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/5/50/English-as-Official-Language.png/800px-English-as-Official-Language.png

[billErobreren]

England obviously! I needn't explain myself any further :rolleyes:

[Balmung]

England obviously! I needn't explain myself any further :rolleyes:

England & America FTW :)

[billErobreren]

England & America FTW :)

Damn straight :D

[Leliana]

England obviously! I needn't explain myself any further :rolleyes:

England & America FTW :)

Damn straight :D
Get a room! :P While you crawl each other, Germany leads. ;)

[Peyrol]

America is nothing without Britain (Cultural roots) and Germany (ethnic roots and, in part, cultural heritage).

[Albion]

Get a room! :P While you crawl each other, Germany leads. ;)

You can't lead from behind. ;)


America is nothing without Britain (Cultural roots) and Germany (ethnic roots and, in part, cultural heritage).

:thumb001:

[ficuscarica]

Today Germany is bigger, has more inhabitants and a stronger economy than any other Germanic country. Historically it´s debatable, but today Germany is the most important Germanic country quite obviously. Even the whole UK is considerably weaker than Germany from an economical point of view, not to mention England.

[Albion]

Today Germany is bigger, has more inhabitants and a stronger economy than any other Germanic country. Historically it´s debatable, but today Germany is the most important Germanic country quite obviously. Even the whole UK is considerably weaker than Germany from an economical point of view. The UK should rather mess with France... not to talk about England.

Doesn´t mean anything to me. But you should deal with the facts... today: Germany > UK > England... People can hate as much as they want. Once again Germany is the leading power in Europe, beyond the shadow of a doubt. Just telling you the facts. I like England, but I think the English overrate their country.

England still has military and political power. Germany likes to boast of its economy but it isn't that far ahead of France or the UK in reality.

Germany is very keen to prop up the Euro because Germany played banker to basically the whole EU, providing cheap money so that people would be employed and in turn people would continue to buy Germany's stuff.

That is how it all worked and that is how Germany became so involved. Germany won't demand this money back fast either because it'd plunge countries into economic crisis which would in turn hurt Germany and lead to it probably not getting its money back.

Germany has economic and political clout within the EU, but nothing much militarily and not much in politics outside of Europe. Luckily for Germany, Europe is really all that really counts.

England suffers from a few problems: welfare and public sector dependent Celtic nations attached to us, a greedy financial sector which has been foolishly bailed out by the last government, a previous government which didn't understand the concept of sticking to a budget and created and deficit and finally a lack of employment (not helped by immigration).

Many of these problems are shared with other states and the recovery for us at least will not be fast, we can look forward to around another 5 to 10 years of this I suppose. It's the 70s all over again. :(

Most countries in Europe owe each other money, the UK, Germany, France, Italy and Spain are the largest debtors and creditors and have leant huge amounts to each other. That is why if one goes down we all do.

Germany's growth cannot be sustained whilst Europe is on austerity so I don't count on seeing any amazing growth figures from the likes of Berlin any time soon.
Germany is very dependent on European trade whereas the UK is slightly more international. Upon saying that Germany will outperform us almost certainly.

Sorry to be all doom and gloom, but it is all doom and gloom.

[Albion]

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=351&pictureid=2760

You might find this interesting.

I find it interesting to note the vast differences in small businesses - small businesses are less prone to foreign takeovers or massive failures, but they don't make nearly as much money.

[ficuscarica]

Ah, i changed my posting. But you had already quoted it. Thought it might be a little bit to provocative to some... Concerning your posting I agree with you in almost all points. Great analysis.

However, I think there is a rather big difference between the German economy and that of the UK - as you can see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_national_product
Also notice that England has military power because it chooses to invest in this area. Germany has the economical potential to become more powerful if it chooses to do so.

But as I said, I don´t care much about "who has the longer **** -games". I wish England all the best, both economically and politically.

[The Ripper]

Of course it is Germany. No question about it.

[Piparskeggr]

The United States of America, until recently...

[Wulfhere]

I don't actually regard Germany as a proper Germanic country, to be honest. Which is another reason why I don't like the term "Germanic".

[Albion]

Ah, i changed my posting. But you had already quoted it. Thought it might be a little bit to provocative to some... Concerning your posting I agree with you in almost all points. Great analysis.

However, I think there is a rather big difference between the German economy and that of the UK - as you can see here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_national_product
Also notice that England has military power because it chooses to invest in this area. Germany has the economical potential to become more powerful if it chooses to do so.

But as I said, I don´t care much about "who has the longer **** -games". I wish England all the best, both economically and politically.

A point I missed is also very important in understanding this too - Germany has roughly 20 million more people than both the UK and France.
The UK and France have around 60 million, Germany something like 80 million. I think that counts for a hell of a lot.

England on its own in the UK is around 50 million.

[Pallantides]

England followed by Germany.

[Burgomaster]

Surely Austria and Germany should be classified as the same nation ;)

Austria/Germany, England and the Netherlands are, in my opinion, the most important/most influential Germanic nations. The smaller Scandinavian nations are equally as impressive though.

[Dilberth]

I don't actually regard Germany as a proper Germanic country, to be honest. Which is another reason why I don't like the term "Germanic".

Can you please elaborate why you don't regard Germany as proper Germanic country?

[Raikaswinþs]

Spain without a doubt.If you disagree these guys will put you through the sword!

http://www.medieval-spain.com/historia/Reino%20de%20Asturias/102_0250Don%20Pelayo%20CangasBC.JPG

http://alsolikelife.com/shooting/images/elcid/el_cid13.jpg


Yeah, you get it! Statue Guy and C.Heston themselves are Spanish.And C.Heston was God too..which means GOD HIMSELF IS SPANISH, a true Cristiano Viejo of Sazón Visigoda

Who's the real Aryan now , uh Dirk ?

http://nosolofutbol.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/pau_gasol_espac3b1a.jpg?w=400&h=306

PAU!! Rightin the kisser! :D

http://www.ahazu.com/pictures/anifun/pow.gif

[ficuscarica]

@Albion: Sure, the greater population plays an important role, never denied that. Actually it sucks, because I live in a once pretty rural but now rather densely populated area where more and more nature gets lost as there are more and more buildings for migrants (both from less wealthy German regions and other countries) and industry. I hate it. But population density is a problem in England, too. Hmm, I think the French have the best mixture of population, country-size and economy.

[Flintlocke]

1. England

2. Germany.

3,4,5,6,7,8,9 does not exist

10. The Netherlands

and so on so forth

[Wulfhere]

Can you please elaborate why you don't regard Germany as proper Germanic country?

It's an instinctive thing. They just seem alien in a way that other Germanic countries, such as the Low Countries and Scandinavia, don't. Maybe they have a lot of Slavic admixture or something.

[Tarja]

England. :)

[The Lawspeaker]

It's an instinctive thing. They just seem alien in a way that other Germanic countries, such as the Low Countries and Scandinavia, don't. Maybe they have a lot of Slavic admixture or something.
That's funny. Because when I am scratching below the surface Dutch have more in common with Germans then with British.

[Mordid]

England. :)
Obvious answer is obvious. They are famous for the literary works of William Shakespeare, English language, empire and so on. Oh god, they have so much thing that people know a lot of them.

[Albion]

That's funny. Because when I am scratching below the surface Dutch have more in common with Germans then with British.

Well yeah, the English are really the remnants of the North Sea Germanics, the Anglo-Frisian speakers.

Dutch are an interesting amalgamation of High Germans and Low Germans like their neighbor to the east.

[The Lawspeaker]

Well yeah, the English are really the remnants of the North Sea Germanics, the Anglo-Frisian speakers.

Dutch are an interesting amalgamation of High Germans and Low Germans like their neighbor to the east.
More of an amalgination of Frisians, Franks and Saxons.

[Dilberth]

It's an instinctive thing. They just seem alien in a way that other Germanic countries, such as the Low Countries and Scandinavia, don't. Maybe they have a lot of Slavic admixture or something.

Do you mean German phenotype is alien or culture?Because someone from Low Countries looks more German than British,and British people also don't have that much similarity with Scandinavia,they have way more celtic admixture.

[Wulfhere]

Do you mean German phenotype is alien or culture?Because someone from Low Countries looks more German than British,and British people also don't have that much similarity with Scandinavia,they have way more celtic admixture.

German culture is alien, is what I mean. They have a slave mentality very similar to Slavs.

[Dilberth]

http://media.skateboard.com.au/forum/images/jesus-facepalm-facepalm-jesus-epic-.jpg

[Leliana]

Obvious answer is obvious. They are famous for the literary works of William Shakespeare, English language, empire and so on. Oh god, they have so much thing that people know a lot of them.
The day where a Pole considers Germany as more important and friendlier than England would be the first day after the real ending of all negative effects of WW2.

[Burgomaster]

Obvious answer is obvious. They are famous for the literary works of William Shakespeare, English language, empire and so on. Oh god, they have so much thing that people know a lot of them.

Why can't the Polish people in England be more like you? :thumb001:

[HungAryan]

Germany.

[Albion]

More of an amalgination of Frisians, Franks and Saxons.

Yes, I thought the Franks spoke Franconian dialects of High German with the Saxons speaking Low Saxon (Low German)?

The division between languages / dialects and ethnicities / regional identities with the continental West Germanics is confusing, here ethnicities are very defined.
Gaels show some similarity as do Lowland Scots and English, but with them there is a clear relationship between the identities, with the continental West Germanics it seems anything goes, there's no particular rules, it's just a blur.

I find it hard to describe, but with the Gaels you have a clear origin for the Gaelic languages - Ireland, they then spread to Scotland and Mann.
With England and Lowland Scots there is also a relation, both were settled by Anglo-Saxons and Southern Scotland is really just a divergent part of Anglo-Saxon England.

But in "Germania" you have the Germans uniting both Low and High Germans and then the Dutch who do the same - but the Dutch have diverged from the Germans whilst forming in a similar way.
You also then have the Allemanic SW - Switzerland, Baden and Alsace and Austria-Bavaria which is further subdivided into Austria and Bavaria and separated by a border, within Austria there's distinct regions such as Tyrol and Voralberg which wants to join Switzerland... it just goes on.

In England it is generally straight forward, our ethnogenesis was very early and a simple process of Anglo-Saxon civilisation prevailing over Celtic and Viking whilst latter absorbing elements of Norman.
A Germanic culture onto a Germanic / Celtic people.

With the continental West Germanics there don't seem to be any rules, it appears very haphazard.

Sorry this is a bit long-winded, I've just been trying to figure out a logic behind this for a while.

[Mordid]

Why can't the Polish people in England be more like you? :thumb001:
Wut?

[The Lawspeaker]

Yes, I thought the Franks spoke Franconian dialects of High German with the Saxons speaking Low Saxon (Low German)?

The division between languages / dialects and ethnicities / regional identities with the continental West Germanics is confusing, here ethnicities are very defined.
Gaels show some similarity as do Lowland Scots and English, but with them there is a clear relationship between the identities, with the continental West Germanics it seems anything goes, there's no particular rules, it's just a blur.

I find it hard to describe, but with the Gaels you have a clear origin for the Gaelic languages - Ireland, they then spread to Scotland and Mann.
With England and Lowland Scots there is also a relation, both were settled by Anglo-Saxons and Southern Scotland is really just a divergent part of Anglo-Saxon England.

But in "Germania" you have the Germans uniting both Low and High Germans and then the Dutch who do the same - but the Dutch have diverged from the Germans whilst forming in a similar way.
You also then have the Allemanic SW - Switzerland, Baden and Alsace and Austria-Bavaria which is further subdivided into Austria and Bavaria and separated by a border, within Austria there's distinct regions such as Tyrol and Voralberg which wants to join Switzerland... it just goes on.

In England it is generally straight forward, our ethnogenesis was very early and a simple process of Anglo-Saxon civilisation prevailing over Celtic and Viking whilst latter absorbing elements of Norman.
A Germanic culture onto a Germanic / Celtic people.

With the continental West Germanics there don't seem to be any rules, it appears very haphazard.

Sorry this is a bit long-winded, I've just been trying to figure out a logic behind this for a while.
I'll reply to this post when I am feeling fresher and when I have more time. The issue is interesting enough to be addressed in full.

[Wulfhere]

Wut?

I.e. not in England.

[Treffie]

Cut the crap, girls

Thread temporarily closed due to retardedness between Mordid and Wulfhere. If you don't heed warnings, you will receive a ban.

[Nglund]

Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump Bump
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[antonio]

Iceland, Feroe Islands listed...France or Spain delisted? WTF?

[Anglosphere]

England founded Australia, Canada, the USA and South Africa, and the world speaks our language.

[Moghrob]

germany and england

[SKYNET]

primary is Germany, secondary is the UK

[Moghrob]

yup, the countries who created the modern world - germany and england... not romans and greeks... welcome in the 21st century reality

[Žołnir]

No doubt about it; Germany.

[RussiaPrussia]

yup, the countries who created the modern world - germany and england... not romans and greeks... welcome in the 21st century reality

yeah but most important european country in 21 century will be russia as asia is now more important

[Lobotomist]

Germany of course.

[Moghrob]

yeah but most important european country in 21 century will be russia as asia is now more important if anything it will be china, russia is shrinking

[Ades]

Both Germany and England are very successful and well-known.

I voted Germany because of my ancestry.

[Aredhel]

Germany and England

[RussiaPrussia]

if anything it will be china, russia is shrinking

First of all i said european country. And second of all russia is the strongest european country period

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.PP.CD/countries/RU-IT-FR-DE-GB?order=wbapi_data_value_2011%20wbapi_data_value% 20wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc&display=default



Country name 2011 billion dollars
United States 14,991
China 11,290
India 4,503
Japan 4,385
Germany 3,227
Russia 3,015
France 2,306,
Brazil 2,289
United Kingdom 2,233
Italy 1,983




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry#List_of_countries_by_industrial_output




Largest countries by industrial output, 2011 according to World Bank, 2011
Economy
Countries by industrial output in 2011 (billions in USD)

European Union 4,371
(01) China 3,410
(02) United States 2,898
(03) Japan 1,602
(04) Germany 1,021
(05) Russia 699
(06) Brazil 679
(07) Italy 542
(08) United Kingdom 523
(09) France 519
(10) Canada 495
(11) India 488
(12) South Korea 438



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_current_account_balance#WTO_D ata

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?70187-Russian-Smartphone-Manufacturers-%26%231056%3B%26%231091%3B%26%231089%3B%26%231089% 3B%26%231082%3B%26%231080%3B%26%231077%3B-%26%231087%3B%26%231088%3B%26%231086%3B%26%231080% 3B%26%231079%3B%26%231074%3B%26%231086%3B%26%23107 6%3B%26%231080%3B%26%231090%3B%26%231077%3B%26%231 083%3B%26%231077%3B%26%231081%3B-%26%231089%3B%26%231084%3B%26%231072%3B%26%231088% 3B%26%231090%3B%26%231092%3B%26%231086%3B%26%23108 5%3B%26%231086%3Bk





now count in nukes and third largest defense budget

[Moghrob]

First of all i said european country. And second of all russia is the strongest european country period

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.MKTP.PP.CD/countries/RU-IT-FR-DE-GB?order=wbapi_data_value_2011%20wbapi_data_value% 20wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc&display=default





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industry#List_of_countries_by_industrial_output


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_current_account_balance#WTO_D ata

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?70187-Russian-Smartphone-Manufacturers-%26%231056%3B%26%231091%3B%26%231089%3B%26%231089% 3B%26%231082%3B%26%231080%3B%26%231077%3B-%26%231087%3B%26%231088%3B%26%231086%3B%26%231080% 3B%26%231079%3B%26%231074%3B%26%231086%3B%26%23107 6%3B%26%231080%3B%26%231090%3B%26%231077%3B%26%231 083%3B%26%231077%3B%26%231081%3B-%26%231089%3B%26%231084%3B%26%231072%3B%26%231088% 3B%26%231090%3B%26%231092%3B%26%231086%3B%26%23108 5%3B%26%231086%3Bk





now count in nukes and third largest defense budget

your list disproved your own claim... germany is superior... russia spends money that it doesn´t have for stupid militarism

and you were talking about asia...

russia is declining, i don´t see a big future for russia

[sevruk]

Greenland

[Anglosphere]

THERMOS FLASK
LAWNMOWER
LIGHT BULB
CHOCOLATE BAR
TELEGRAPH
PNEUMATIC TYRE
MODERN FIRE EXTINGUISHER
CARBON FIBRE
STEAM ENGINE
WORLDWIDE WEB
HYPODERMIC SYRINGE
TELEPHONE
STEAM TURBINE
TELEVISION
PASSENGER RAILWAY
MILITARY TANK
TOOTHBRUSH
TORPEDO
GLIDER
JET ENGINE
CEMENT
TENSION-SPOKED WHEEL
STAINLESS STEEL
SPINNING FRAME
ELECTRIC MOTOR
PHOTOGRAPHY
SEWAGE SYSTEM
ELECTRONIC PROGRAMMABLE COMPUTER
TIN CAN
WATERPROOF MATERIAL
ATM
VACUUM CLEANER
DISC BRAKES
Corkscrew
Scuba
Electromagnet
Fax Machine
Gas Mask
Internal Combustion Engine
Penicillin
Periodic Table
Polyester
Radar
Rubber bands
Seismometer
Sewing machine
submarine
Toilet paper
Umbrella
Typewriter
DNA fingerprinting
Wind tunnel
Light switch
mouse trap
postage stamp
flushing toilet
toaster
magnifying glass
Electric generator
Weather map
Football, Rugby, Cricket, Tennis, Boxing, Darts, Table Tennis, Snooker, Netball, Hockey, Polo, Rounders, Rock Climbing, Golf,
Seat belt
Traffic lights
Life boat
Fingerprinting
Decimal point
Refrigerator
Kaleidascope
Infrared
Calculus
Splitting the atom

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/3e/Flag_-_Great_Britain.jpg/300px-Flag_-_Great_Britain.jpg

[Moghrob]

some of these inventions are german, e. g. splitting the atom and jet engine

[RussiaPrussia]

your list disproved your own claim... germany is superior... russia spends money that it doesn´t have for stupid militarism

and you were talking about asia...

russia is declining, i don´t see a big future for russia

if russia is decling what is europe than?? planet of the apes in 10 years??

russia exported 14 billion us dollars of weapons its 20% of their budget and most the military industrial complex belongs to the goverment

russia has 10% of its gdp in debt germany like 80% america 100%


youre also from croatia which is a poor country poorer than russia

[Moghrob]

if russia is decling what is europe than?? planet of the apes in 10 years??

russia exported 14 billion us dollars of weapons its 20% of their budget and most the military industrial complex belongs to the goverment

russia has 10% of its gdp in debt germany like 80% america 100%


youre also from croatia which is a poor country poorer than russia
this is not a penis length context, i just want to discuss facts
russia has a lower income than much smaller germany and the population of western russia is shrinking

russia isn´t a super power anymore, and it will become less and less important. i say that without positive or negative emotions, it´s just what i see... even north korea has many weapons and invests much of its money in weapons. it is still a failed state

[Comte Arnau]

Denmark. They invented my kæreste.

[Lemon Kush]

I'd say Germany over England. England hasn't been a sovereign country for a very long time. It's been know as the U.K. or Great Britain through most of history and it's significance. It's hardly purely Germanic, rather a mixture of Celtic, Germanic, and Roman influences. Until recently Germany has been the most dominant country in Europe economically and in the Global market. It being one of the biggest manufacturers of vehicles, clothes, and machinery.

[Austo]

Austria is.

It has the most interesting History in my opinion.
And we got all the alps.

[Albion]

I'd say Germany over England. England hasn't been a sovereign country for a very long time. It's been know as the U.K. or Great Britain through most of history and it's significance. It's hardly purely Germanic, rather a mixture of Celtic, Germanic, and Roman influences. Until recently Germany has been the most dominant country in Europe economically and in the Global market. It being one of the biggest manufacturers of vehicles, clothes, and machinery.

I beg to differ. England was a middle power in Europe throughout much of its history, becoming a superpower slowly from the 1700s as first it developed its agriculture base, then strengthened its navy, trading links and established industrialization. Ultimately the European superpowers at the time - France, Spain and finally the Netherlands were all either beaten back or surpassed by England before the act of union.
Scotland meanwhile bankrupted itself with the stupid Darien scheme and then tried to blame England for not opening its ports (2 reasons why this is a moot point - #1 the Scottish were on Spanish land and England didn't want another war with Spain and #2 Protectionism was prevalent at the time, there is no reason why the English should have let the Scottish trade with English colonies anyway since they were a foreign country). Scotland essentially got its first bailout with the act of union, a lot of Scottish politicians essentially accepted money and the Scottish economy benefited greatly from trade with England and our empire.

The British Empire would likely have developed along similar lines even if Scotland had never joined with England.


England fought the Hundred years war against France (the western Euro superpower at the time) without Scotland.
It initiated the colonization of America, Canada and India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_colonial_empire) without Scotland.
Fought in crusades 1, 2, 3 and 9 - without Scotland.
Crushed Spanish power in Northern Europe (together with the Netherlands) in the Anglo-Spanish war and Eighty years war (Dutch war of Independence) without Scotland.. This subdued the Catholic threat to Northern Europe.
Successfully conquered Scotland and subdued the entire British Isles during the English Civil War (or "War of the Three Kingdoms"). Scotland was under military government led by George Monck, Scottish amnesia means they exclude this episode from their history.


http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/513/englishempire.jpg
English Empire before act of union.

The union is essentially England with a few other nations coming along for the ride. 85% of the population, 90% of the economy, 2/3 of the land area, most of the military, the major cities and most of the members of parliament (probably enough English MPs to outvote the rest of the UK put together).

[Lemon Kush]

I beg to differ. England was a middle power in Europe throughout much of its history, becoming a superpower slowly from the 1700s as first it developed its agriculture base, then strengthened its navy, trading links and established industrialization. Ultimately the European superpowers at the time - France, Spain and finally the Netherlands were all either beaten back or surpassed by England before the act of union.
Scotland meanwhile bankrupted itself with the stupid Darien scheme and then tried to blame England for not opening its ports (2 reasons why this is a moot point - #1 the Scottish were on Spanish land and England didn't want another war with Spain and #2 Protectionism was prevalent at the time, there is no reason why the English should have let the Scottish trade with English colonies anyway since they were a foreign country). Scotland essentially got its first bailout with the act of union, a lot of Scottish politicians essentially accepted money and the Scottish economy benefited greatly from trade with England and our empire.

The British Empire would likely have developed along similar lines even if Scotland had never joined with England.


England fought the Hundred years war against France (the western Euro superpower at the time) without Scotland.
It initiated the colonization of America, Canada and India (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/English_colonial_empire) without Scotland.
Fought in crusades 1, 2, 3 and 9 - without Scotland.
Crushed Spanish power in Northern Europe (together with the Netherlands) in the Anglo-Spanish war and Eighty years war (Dutch war of Independence) without Scotland.. This subdued the Catholic threat to Northern Europe.
Successfully conquered Scotland and subdued the entire British Isles during the English Civil War (or "War of the Three Kingdoms"). Scotland was under military government led by George Monck, Scottish amnesia means they exclude this episode from their history.


http://img21.imageshack.us/img21/513/englishempire.jpg
English Empire before act of union.

The union is essentially England with a few other nations coming along for the ride. 85% of the population, 90% of the economy, 2/3 of the land area, most of the military, the major cities and most of the members of parliament (probably enough English MPs to outvote the rest of the UK put together).

Valid points. And that's true that England was a powerful country on it's own as well. It's kingdom always had the upper hand and ruled over Wales, Scotland, and Ireland. It's army was simply larger, stronger, more organized equipped with better weaponry. It took many years for these countries to gain their independence. It was also one of the top naval powers at the time along with Spain.

[Jackson]

I voted England, but only by a narrow margin and because i'm biased. Germany and Germans are a phenomenal people. Despite being centre stage of two of the biggest wars in human history and ultimately being defeated in both, they are now the most powerful country in Europe again, i would say. For a young country they have certainly proven themselves.

Edit: Young in the sense of the most recent incarnations of Germany. Obviously the ancestors of modern Germans, for a large part, have been very powerful in the past as well.

[MissProvocateur]

Germany. They will always be Europe's powerhouse and industrial leader, as well as an example to follow. I have a lot of respect for the Germans.

[Hayalet]

Right now, obviously the USA. If this is about Europe only, my vote would go to England, because historically Germany has been more envious of England than the other way around.

[Austo]

USA cant be called germanic.

[Baluarte]

Germany.
An interesting country with a very specific worldview and contributions.

England has built itself around Naval supremacy and economical imperialism. Quite influential politically, but comes second in sociocultural relevance.

[Corvus]

From an objective point of view definitly Germany.
Their economic record is incredible. Also culturally they contributed so much to the world.

Joint second are the small brother of Germany Austria and England which should not be underestimated
Third are the Netherlands, the most Germanic country by genetics, but their left political orientation spoils it.

[Mans not hot]

England and Germany. Compare them is like Russia and Poland.

[Baluarte]

England and Germany. Compare them is like Russia and Poland.

Wut?

Russia is the core of the Slav world, England is the most peripheral Germanic country (not counting Iceland or Faroe Islands)

[RussiaPrussia]

this is not a penis length context, i just want to discuss facts
russia has a lower income than much smaller germany and the population of western russia is shrinking

russia isn´t a super power anymore, and it will become less and less important. i say that without positive or negative emotions, it´s just what i see... even north korea has many weapons and invests much of its money in weapons. it is still a failed state


It is about penis length comparison, if you say russia is like north korea whats your croatia then?? Which is poorer than russia? Its over twice more richer than china and germany is only twice more richer which means we are like x2 north koreas living standard after your logic.

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/NY.GDP.PCAP.PP.CD/countries/1W-RU-DE-CN-HR?display=graph

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_military_expenditures#SIPRI_Y earbook_2012_.E2.80.93_World.27s_top_15_military_s penders

http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/MS.MIL.TOTL.P1?order=wbapi_data_value_2010+wbapi_d ata_value+wbapi_data_value-last&sort=desc

[RussiaPrussia]

and you were talking about asia...

russia is declining, i don´t see a big future for russia

and i was still talking about asia, well lets compare it with asian countries

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2012/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=69&pr.y=16&sy=2010&ey=2011&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=922%2C534%2C542&s=NGDPD&grp=0&a=

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2012/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=44&pr.y=1&sy=2010&ey=2011&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=203%2C511&s=NGDPD&grp=1&a=1


You can see russia is the third largest asian economy now after japan and china. South korea has only 1.1 trillion gdp and india has even lower gdp despite having over 1 billion people.

If you look at the second you can see

newly industrialised asian economies = south korea, hongkong, taiwan, singapoor = 2,086 billion $ = 85 million people

asean 5 = Indonesia, vietnam, thailand, philiphens, malaysia = 1,827 billion $ = 518 million people

Russia = 1,850 billion $ = 143 million people

So what is there more to say samsung, asus, htc, hongkong, hyundei, kia, LG, acer, jacky chan all this is as rich as russia

[Albion]

Wut?

Russia is the core of the Slav world, England is the most peripheral Germanic country (not counting Iceland or Faroe Islands)

'Peripheral' is a poor choice of words. It's not peripheral, it's just quite odd compared to other Germanic nations (partly Celtic influence, partly being on an island as the probable reasons).
Russia is peripheral in Europe, it is rather isolationist in regards to the centre of power in the west of the continent. England meanwhile is quite embedded into Europe despite its unease with the EU.
Germany is the centre of the Germanic world geographically and because culturally it has a lot in common with both the other west Germanics and Scandinavia. England is west Germanic influenced by north Germanics but also with Celtic and French influences. It has developed very independently of the other Germanics and subsequently has less in common with them than Germans do, arguably it has more in common with its Celtic neighbours today,

But when it comes to importance, England and Germany by far outweigh any other Germanic nations. Austria and the Netherlands are the only other two that come close.

[Albion]

and i was still talking about asia, well lets compare it with asian countries

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2012/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=69&pr.y=16&sy=2010&ey=2011&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=922%2C534%2C542&s=NGDPD&grp=0&a=

http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/weo/2012/02/weodata/weorept.aspx?pr.x=44&pr.y=1&sy=2010&ey=2011&scsm=1&ssd=1&sort=country&ds=.&br=1&c=203%2C511&s=NGDPD&grp=1&a=1


You can see russia is the third largest asian economy now after japan and china. South korea has only 1.1 trillion gdp and india has even lower gdp despite having over 1 billion people.

If you look at the second you can see

newly industrialised asian economies = south korea, hongkong, taiwan, singapoor = 2,086 billion $ = 85 million people

asean 5 = Indonesia, vietnam, thailand, philiphens, malaysia = 1,827 billion $ = 518 million people

Russia = 1,850 billion $ = 143 million people

So what is there more to say samsung, asus, htc, hongkong, hyundei, kia, LG, acer, jacky chan all this is as rich as russia

You've got that pretty wrong.

Those companies:

Samsung, Kia, LG - South Korea, Hyundai - not ASEAN
HTC, Asus - Taiwan - not ASEAN


ASEAN refers to some pretty basic resource-led economies in South East Asia at the moment. It may expand in the future though, and Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam are the members to watch.

[Anglosphere]

Quite influential politically, but comes second in sociocultural relevance.

We're working on that.

[Anglosphere]

..

[Albion]

England has a large Scandinavian component, as well as the Dutch and German.

http://www.ling.upenn.edu/~kroch/scand/england-vikings.jpg

I know, but there is some influence from our Celtic neighbours too. This and our history of development on an island has led us further away from the other Germanics. When you look at the Low Countries, German speaking countries and Scandinavia, they all have more in common with each other than England does with most of them.

[RussiaPrussia]

You've got that pretty wrong.

Those companies:

Samsung, Kia, LG - South Korea, Hyundai - not ASEAN
HTC, Asus - Taiwan - not ASEAN


ASEAN refers to some pretty basic resource-led economies in South East Asia at the moment. It may expand in the future though, and Indonesia, Malaysia and Vietnam are the members to watch.

the newly industrialized economies are the 4 asian tigers korea, taiwan, hongkong and singapure, You can clearly see russia is almost as big them.

[Germanicus]

Which Germanic country is most important to the culture?

This can be based on territory, economy, empires, science, history or whatever you want.

Which is the most important country in the Germanic cultural group in your opinion and why?

For me I would choose Denmark, the social togetherness as a nation of Historical unity.

[FeederOfRavens]

Germany has been the most important being at the heart of Europe. England has been the most successful.

[Balmung]

Germany economically. England historically and in terms of acomplishment. Much of Europe and the modern world for the matter wouldn't be much today without the industrial revolution. Germany has been phenomenal in its contributions. But both France and England had greater and longer lasting impact on the world. England's children didn't do too shabby either. Very few other civilizations can say that their colony became the greatest world power since them.

[KawaiiKawaii]

The US.

[brennus dux gallorum]

England

[Bobby Martnen]

Germany.

But if America was in the poll, I would have voted for it.

[somerled]

While I admire all the Germanic countries, it has to be England with Germany a close second.
- We are conversing in English.
- The British Empire was the most expansive the world has ever seen.
- Britain contributed significantly to technological and scientific discoveries\inventions, even more so than Germany.
Nobel prizes by country: USA 368, UK 132, Germany 107.
- English culture and ethnicity was the dominant element in the creation and development of the USA.