Are you familiar with 23andme?

[FriendlyComrade]

I was wondering if you guys have done 23andme and how familiar are you with this testing company? Also what are your opinions about 23andme's accuracy?

[Kaspias]

It is good if you wonder what regions you show relativity with. They assign you cities that you share relatives. Also good if you do not know your y and mt DNA. Otherwise, the admixture breakdown is worthless, stick with Gedmatch instead. If you have your y and mt DNA tested, it might be a better idea to go with a cheaper test. MyHeritage would be my recommendation in that case as they recently started assigning regions, too.

Also, do you bear C-F3830? Where are you from?

[FriendlyComrade]

I have already done 23andme and my dad also has been tested. I was just asking in order to know if the majority of the members here are familiar too because I wanted help with the interpretation of my 23andme results.

The full name of my paternal haplogroup according to the new naming system is C2b1a1b1-F1756 or in other words C-F1756. According to the old naming system my haplogroup would have been a subclade of C3. My paternal grandfather is Dobruja Tatar. I live in Bulgaria.

[Kaspias]

I have already done 23andme and my dad also has been tested. I was just asking in order to know if the majority of the members here are familiar too because I wanted help with the interpretation of my 23andme results.

The full name of my paternal haplogroup according to the new naming system is C2b1a1b1-F1756 or in other words C-F1756. According to the old naming system my haplogroup would have been a subclade of C3. My paternal grandfather is Dobruja Tatar. I live in Bulgaria.

I see.

Download your raw data and upload it to Gedmatch if you haven't already. Then you can compare both results. I can help you with interpretation if you would like to share the results.

[FriendlyComrade]

What Gedmatch calculator do you think is the best?

[Kaspias]

What Gedmatch calculator do you think is the best?

Dodecad K12b and Eurogenes K13 are the ones we usually prefer.

[JamesBond007]

I was wondering if you guys have done 23andme and how familiar are you with this testing company? Also what are your opinions about 23andme's accuracy?

None of the commercial tests are 'accurate' per se. Now, I'm not promoting this site because its ancient comparison techniques are questionable albeit fun and entertaining but I think its modern populations are spot on and it they might use a slightly modified version of GEDmatch K15 :


How can MyTrueAncestry categorize up to 250+ modern groups ?

Unlike other companies which try to cater to target audiences pre-conceptions about their identity, MyTrueAncestry focuses in accurately determing one's closest match based on tens of thousands of data samples.

^so why am I posting that if I am not promoting the site ? Even though some parts of that service may be very flawed they still are able to point out a major flaw in commercial DNA tests.

For instance, if I sent my DNA to LivingDNA (or imagine 23andme or any other commercial test) with a British name they might send back that I am about half Welsh and half English or something but if I sent it in with an Irish name I might magically get back results that say I am half Irish and half English (that is indeed what happened). I haven't tested this out but I think that is kind of the bullshit that goes on with these things.

GEDmatch K12B and K13 or K15 might seem like a decent start. I think K13 might well for people who don't have North-Atlantic etc... as their primary category and that are perhaps from Eastern Europe as I think K13 might take into consideration asiatic shift I dunno. All I know is that EUtest was pretty good and K15 is EUtest v2 so it is the updated better version for me.

DNAgenics admixturestudio and or genoplot.com or vahaduo better than the older version of Gedmatch because they have perhaps updated regional samples.

For instance, oldschool GEDmatch and MyTrueancestry have me @ SouthWest English and my oracle as Orcadian (Celtic + Viking) and Prussian (German)

The updated version on genoplot is better :



SampleDistanceEngland2.908763
Dutch3.13281
Scotland4.0097629999999995
Southwest English4.223648
Southeast English4.34258
North Dutch4.683567
West Scottish5.136146
Irish5.144424
Orcadian5.4957709999999995
North German6.023454

2 Way OraclesDistance50% England + 50% Dutch2.64
50% England + 50% England2.91
50% Dutch + 50% Southwest English2.99
50% England + 50% Scotland3.12
50% Dutch + 50% Dutch3.13
50% Scotland + 50% Southwest English3.22
50% England + 50% North Dutch3.25
50% Southwest English + 50% North Dutch3.27
50% Dutch + 50% Southeast English3.29
50% Dutch + 50% Scotland3.37

4 Way OraclesDistance25% England + 25% England + 25% Norway + 25% South Dutch2.62
25% Orcadian + 25% Norway + 25% South Dutch + 25% England2.62
25% England + 25% England + 25% Dutch + 25% Dutch2.64
25% England + 25% England + 25% Southwest English + 25% Norway2.67
25% England + 25% England + 25% England + 25% Dutch2.68
25% England + 25% England + 25% Belgium + 25% Norway2.69
25% England + 25% England + 25% England + 25% Norway2.71
25% Orcadian + 25% Norway + 25% German Bavarian + 25% England2.72
25% Dutch + 25% Dutch + 25% England + 25% Southwest English2.74
25% England + 25% England + 25% South Dutch + 25% West Norwegian2.75


If I want to get extremely nerdy I can model ancient England with G25 and get an acceptable distance. However, I'll spare you the details and not flood your thread with my personal results.

Anyway, so K12B says I'm mixed Germanic and K13 says Irish and both can't be true. I know I'm probably a mix of Lowland Scottish , English, Irish or Welsh ?, and German now without that German bomb I might be Irish but that German bomb is too strong so I'll go with K15 for English. You have kind of use your critical reasoning skills here. Actually, genoplot version of K13 has me as English but GEdmatch version has me as Irish. Still I prefer K15 as it seems more logical for my purposes. Your mileage may vary but I'm just giving a sample of the basic methodologies here so you can generically apply some of the principles to yourself perhaps.

[FriendlyComrade]

My 23andme results are:

93.6% European: 92.9% Greek & Balkan, 0.7% Eastern European

3.8% East Asian & Indigenous American:
3.3% Northern Asian: 2.3% Manchurian & Mongolian, 0.8%
Siberian, 0.2% Broadly Northern Asian
0.5% Chinese & Southeast Asian: 0.3% Indonesian, Thai,
Khmer & Myanma, 0.2% Broadly Chinese & Southeast Asian

2.3% Western Asian & North African: 1.2% Cypriot, 0.1% Broadly Northern West Asian, 0.1% Levantine, 0.4% North African, 0.5% Broadly Western Asian & North African

0.4% Central Asian

0.3% Sub-Saharan African: 0.2% Nigerian, 0.1% Broadly West African



Eurogenes K13 results:
#PopulationPercent
1 Baltic 22.01
2 West_Med 21.42
3 East_Med 20.53
4 North_Atlantic 16.52
5 West_Asian 9.24
6 East_Asian 4.19
7 Red_Sea 2.69
8 Siberian 1.7
9 Oceanian 0.5
10 Sub-Saharan 0.4
11 Northeast_African 0.3
12 South Asian 0.29
13 Amerindian 0.22

Population Distance
1 Bulgarian 8.14
2 Greek_Thessaly 9.64
3 Romanian 10.68
4 Serbian 14.47
5 Central_Greek 16.61
6 Tuscan 17.52
7 East_Sicilian 17.7
8 Italian_Abruzzo 17.89
9 West_Sicilian 18.04
10 Moldavian 18.85
11 Ashkenazi 19.32
12 North_Italian 19.52
13 South_Italian 21.22
14 Croatian 22.43
15 Hungarian 23.5
16 Algerian_Jewish 26.12
17 Austrian 26.76
18 Italian_Jewish 27.03
19 Portuguese 27.07
20 Sephardic_Jewish 27.41


Oracle-2 results:
1) 41.20% Algerian_Jewish + 58.80% Moldavian 6.26
2) 16.20% Erzya + 83.80% Greek_Thessaly 6.44
3) 87.00% Bulgarian + 13.00% Moroccan 6.45
4) 54.00% Algerian_Jewish + 46.00% Ukrainian 6.55
5) 87.20% Bulgarian + 12.80% Mozabite_Berber 6.63
6) 84.00% Greek_Thessaly + 16.00% Kargopol_Russian 6.64
7) 87.00% Bulgarian + 13.00% Tunisian 6.65
8) 15.20% Chuvash + 84.80% Greek_Thessaly 6.69
9) 94.60% Bulgarian + 5.40% Yizu 6.7
10) 4.60% Bulgarian + 5.40% Naxi 6.71
11) 4.60% Bulgarian + 5.40% Japanese 6.72
12) 95.00% Bulgarian + 5.00% Tujia 6.73
13) 12.60% Algerian + 87.40% Bulgarian 6.74
14) 94.20% Bulgarian + 5.80% Tu 6.75
15) 95.20% Bulgarian + 4.80% Miaozu 6.754
16) 94.00% Bulgarian + 6.00% Tibeto-Burman_Burmese 6.755
17) 95.20% Bulgarian + 4.80% She 6.756
18) 95.20% Bulgarian + 4.80% Lahu 6.77
19) 53.00% Algerian_Jewish + 47.00% Ukrainian_Lviv 6.8
20) 81.20% Greek_Thessaly + 18.80% Ukrainian 6.81

[FriendlyComrade]

I see.

Download your raw data and upload it to Gedmatch if you haven't already. Then you can compare both results. I can help you with interpretation if you would like to share the results.

I posted my results. Can you help me?

[Kaspias]

I posted my results. Can you help me?

Sure. Can you also post your Dodecad K12b? Eurogenes K13 doesn't seem very suitable for you. Some random inheritance seems to happened. Your 23andme results looks like typical Bulgarian except for elevated Eastern Eurasian score. 23andme is actually surprisingly accurate in your case.


So you have Gedmatch results, you can compare your scores with other individuals and spot-on even very minor differences between you and other ethnicities, and can create your own observations. You will learn it very easily in this forum.

This is what you get in the individual ranking(based on K13. This list changes in each calculator.):


Distance to: FriendlyComrade
7.08513232 Moldova_South_Gagauzia
7.23892257 Macedonian_South
7.43853480 Macedonian
7.59110664 Vlach(Aromanian)_average
7.61575341 Bulgaria_Southcentral
7.64256501 Macedonian_North
7.71943651 Greek_Northern-Thrace
7.76541048 Bulgaria_Southeastern
7.88077407 Pomak_Bulgaria
8.22502280 Bulgaria_average


This doesn't mean you belong to one of these ethnicities(although most of the time it is the case), but show that these are the communities genetically closest to you. 7 Distance means you are not very close to any population, which is perfectly normal considering you are mixed. When I put you and other ethnicities who live in Bulgaria altogether, your genome is illustrated as such:

https://i.ibb.co/10pXxrP/pca.png

As an overall comment, I expected that you will be closer to Balkan Turks because you have a Tatar ancestor who provided you Eastern Eurasian admixture. However, you actually differ from Balkan Turks by having a radically more Mediterranean-like admixture which is common among Bulgarians. At this stage, I do believe you're either 1/2 or 3/4 Bulgarian (or maybe Macedonian migrator), right? I would have guessed you are from somewhere around Varna. Anyway, let me know if you are confused at any stage.

[FriendlyComrade]

At this stage, I do believe you're either 1/2 or 3/4 Bulgarian (or maybe Macedonian migrator), right? I would have guessed you are from somewhere around Varna. Anyway, let me know if you are confused at any stage.

Sorry I wasn't clear. My dad is 1/2 Bulgarian (my maternal grandma is from Pazardzik) and 1/2 Tatar. My mom is 1/2 Bulgarian (my maternal grandma is from Yambol) and 1/2 Greek (my maternal grandpa is from Pella, Northern Greece. I am 1/2 Bulgarian, 1/4 Tatar and 1/4 Greek.

[FriendlyComrade]

Sure. Can you also post your Dodecad K12b?

Here is Dodecad K12b:
1 North_European 29.26
2 Caucasus 27.05
3 Atlantic_Med 25.96
4 Southwest_Asian 5.84
5 East_Asian 3.78
6 Gedrosia 3.28
7 Northwest_African 2.22
8 Siberian 1.2
9 Southeast_Asian 0.6
10 South_Asian 0.37
11 East_African 0.24
12 Sub_Saharan 0.2

The Gedmatch version provided only 20 options for the Oracle-2 mixed mode and none of these options seemed accurate. For example they modeled me as 60% Sicilian and 40% Russian which is very inaccurate considering that I don't belong to either population. So I transferred my scores to Vahaduo. Here screenshots of Dodecad K12b population distancies and mixed mode:
http://imgur.com/a/vE2zy68

[Kaspias]

Here is Dodecad K12b:
1 North_European 29.26
2 Caucasus 27.05
3 Atlantic_Med 25.96
4 Southwest_Asian 5.84
5 East_Asian 3.78
6 Gedrosia 3.28
7 Northwest_African 2.22
8 Siberian 1.2
9 Southeast_Asian 0.6
10 South_Asian 0.37
11 East_African 0.24
12 Sub_Saharan 0.2

The Gedmatch version provided only 20 options for the Oracle-2 mixed mode and none of these options seemed accurate. For example they modeled me as 60% Sicilian and 40% Russian which is very inaccurate considering that I don't belong to either population. So I transferred my scores to Vahaduo. Here screenshots of Dodecad K12b population distancies and mixed mode:
http://imgur.com/a/vE2zy68

The community-led version of K12b is even better but gives very mixed results in your case. Your Tatar grandfather probably had around 20% Eastern Eurasian, and through generations, his contribution to the gene pool became lesser. We have to see a straightforward 25% Tatar in that case, but in my runs, I was able to get 13% at maximum. This could be because of the "random inheritance" I mentioned previously. We receive 50-50 from our parents, but in population genomics which statistical sources have variable references, these 50-50 can be combined or replaced by something else. I'm ~65% closer to my father, for example, and a similar case apparently goes for you. Otherwise, the influence of that Tatar ancestor would be more than what we see now.

See these oracles from updated Vahaduo:


Distance to: FriendlyComrade
1.81512856 94.80% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje + 5.20% Xibo
1.83864900 5.20% Hezhen + 94.80% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje
1.89068881 94.40% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje + 5.60% Tibetan
1.91731843 5.20% Daur + 94.80% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje
1.93546695 94.60% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje + 5.40% Nepali_Kirant_Rai
1.93632603 95.00% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje + 5.00% Naga
1.94635861 4.80% Korean + 95.20% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje
1.97344366 4.60% Japanese + 95.40% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje
1.97587549 94.60% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje + 5.40% Tu
2.09219114 94.20% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje + 5.80% Nepali_Gurung
2.10920210 5.00% Han_north + 95.00% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje
2.11797587 94.80% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje + 5.20% Nivh
2.16745983 94.80% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje + 5.20% Naxi
2.17605740 5.60% Dungan + 94.40% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje
2.17641314 94.80% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje + 5.20% Yizu
2.28643162 94.00% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje + 6.00% Mongol_Khalkh
2.40217158 94.00% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje + 6.00% Mongol_Uuld
2.40425805 95.00% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje + 5.00% Nanai
2.46199665 95.00% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje + 5.00% Oroqen
2.47096803 6.20% Kalmyk + 93.80% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje
2.55198582 7.20% Kyrgyz + 92.80% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje
2.57705408 95.00% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje + 5.00% Negidal
2.64725900 7.80% Kazakh + 92.20% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje
2.65935977 90.80% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje + 9.20% Nogai_Stavropol
2.67712123 4.80% Han_central + 95.20% Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje


Apparently, a combination of 1/2 Bulgarian ancestor and 1/4 Greek ancestor made you closest to Macedonians, also Eastern Bulgarians and Gagauz. These regions have a similar input, so it's actually just a genetic similarity -you are partly Eastern Bulgarian yourself, though-

And the single population sharing. Fits are lesser compared to K13.


Distance to: FriendlyComrade
4.95739851 Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje
5.23284817 Greek_Macedonia
5.29381715 Macedonian_East
5.42269306 Moldovan_Gagauz
5.43967830 Bulgarian_East
5.59620407 Macedonian_Polog
5.66458295 Macedonian_Vardar
5.75006087 Bulgarian_Central
5.77209667 Macedonian_South
6.03088717 Pomak_Bulgaria
6.13740173 Bulgarian_West
6.22775240 Turk_Makedonya
6.53645164 Albanian_Kosovo
6.64698428 Pomak_Greece
6.68495325 Moldovan_South
6.84019006 Romanian
7.05876051 Turk_Deliorman
7.13413625 Bulgarian_Thrace
7.75937497 Greek_Thessaly
7.93879714 Greek_Thessaloniki
8.31533523 Greek_Thrace
8.79137646 Montenegrin
8.82946204 Turk_Trakya
8.99975000 Albanian
10.45170321 Greek_Peloponnese

[FriendlyComrade]

Thanks for your efforts! What you said is very informative!

[Luke35]

Thanks for your efforts! What you said is very informative!

Kaspias is the best.

[Leto]

Hi,
Is your father tested as well? Because you wouldn't have known the Y DNA if you are a female.

[Leto]

...

[FriendlyComrade]

Hi,
Is your father tested as well? Because you wouldn't have known the Y DNA if you are a female.

Yes, he has also been tested with 23andme. Btw his maternal haplogroup is R0.

[Gira]

Hello FriendlyComrade
I have already done my 23andme too, I am also C-F1756 and I think we are close cousins as it it very rare in all DNA tests database (we are Ukrainian). I Hope you contact me or your father contacts me.
Thanks alot

[Gira]

Hi cousin
Are you C-F3830 ??? it is very rare DNA, so I believe we are so close to each other

[Oneeye]

Never heard of it

[Celestia]

Never heard of it

me neither maybe it's some kind of porn

[Roy]

Is this some brand of jam?

[Oneeye]

me neither maybe it's some kind of porn


Are you doing the research right now? Get back to me on it and it's quality.

[Celestia]

Are you doing the research right now? Get back to me on it and it's quality.

23 anthrotards and 1 VUR. Pass.

[Gira]

I have the same haplogroup number of C2b1a1b1-F1756 , which is so rare to find, I do believe we are cousins (I am Tatar too) although I don't live in Bulgaria. I hope you contact me back.