Rail Away: Portugal (late 1990s)

[The Lawspeaker]

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Portugal Part 1:

This journey takes us through the most western country of Europe: Portugal. We follow the rail along the famous Douro Valley. The Douro river has been the pulsating heart of the world-famous port.


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Portugal Part 2:

The World's Greatest Railway Journeys travels through Portugal. We travel from the highest mountain of Portugal, then along the banks of the Tagus River to the western-most shore of Europe.

[Damião de Góis]

Cool video, i take the train everyday :p

[The Lawspeaker]

I hope that the network has been modernised since ? :thumb001:

[Damião de Góis]

I hope that the network has been modernised since ? :thumb001:

Honestly i have no idea. The trains i go on in Lisbon are modern, but that should be expected. The rest of the country is not as developed unfortunately.

[The Lawspeaker]

Honestly i have no idea. The trains i go on in Lisbon are modern, but that should be expected. The rest of the country is not as developed unfortunately.
I read up on it for a moment and it seems that they have a plan to link all district capitals with double railways and electrify those lines. The plan would commence in 2010 so they are probably busy by now.

[Catrau]

We have no money for that. Anyway the car and the road took over the rail. One of the reasons why we are facing nowadays shit was the construction of motorways everywhere by "government friendly" construction companies and the demise of rail because the railroad company fell in "government friendly" thousands of boys who, after their “help” during the campaigns, need very well paid jobs where they didn't had to put their hooves (some of these never went to their supposed jobs). So our debt is built on money that fell in the pockets of a few extortionists. That's why I profoundly hate them all and feel somebody should put a bullet in a few of those sons of bitches head… who knows they would start to think twice.

[Vasconcelos]

The whole national transport system is poorly planned out and a huge money sink. We have one of the greatest and most profitable geografic position in the world and still manage not to take advantage of it.

But what would you expect? We pretty much haven't had a good Government in like 150 years.

[Rouxinol]

We have no money for that. Anyway the car and the road took over the rail. One of the reasons why we are facing nowadays shit was the construction of motorways everywhere by "government friendly" construction companies and the demise of rail because the railroad company fell in "government friendly" thousands of boys who, after their “help” during the campaigns, need very well paid jobs where they didn't had to put their hooves (some of these never went to their supposed jobs). So our debt is built on money that fell in the pockets of a few extortionists. That's why I profoundly hate them all and feel somebody should put a bullet in a few of those sons of bitches head… who knows they would start to think twice.

That might have happened to some extent (not only in Portugal, corruption's everywhere unfortunately), but truth to be told Portugal has also been paid over by some of the EU's "masters" to get rid of the bulk of its own production network, instead of modernizing it. Even Portuguese farmers and fishermen have been paid via the EU to stop farming and fishing here! Up until the end of the 1980s we had a rather solid industry, agriculture and fishing network. They were progressively dismantled up until the end of the mid-1990s. What for? To allow German companies to set their feet in Portugal and make use of Portuguese labor force, cheap at the time (1990s), maybe? But not for long, just until they discovered China and so on, much cheaper and profitable, and slave-like. Also to allow German industries to export their products to Portugal, maybe? In other words: Portugal has been used by the EU's biggest interests to their own economic benefit. No wonder we're paying now the bunch of misdoings of the past - that included. Yet, not everything's bad. Portugal's health system built after 1975 is considered amongst one of the best by the World Health Organization (it ranks at their rank 12th position), mortality rate indicators dropped steeply to civilized figures at all levels, literacy rate indicators rised steeply to civilized figures at all levels and so on. The irony is that now part of the qualified workforce of this country (engineers and healthcare professionals mainly) is being sent away to Germany and others... No wonder, little has been left in Portugal!

[Vasconcelos]

The irony is that now part of the qualified workforce of this country (engineers and healthcare professionals mainly) is being sent away to Germany and others... No wonder, little has been left in Portugal!

True, but I think your last sentence should be moved upwards..it's the lack of short to medium term oportunities that is driving the qualified workforce away.

Take my case, for example, I'm "not far" from finishing a masters in civil engineering. After I'm done I'll earn, what, €1000 before taxes? That's just slightly above being enough to pay for a house rent in Lisbon/Porto and pay for basic expenses - I'll likely have to stay at my parent's place for a while before moving out - and I'll want to start a familiy for Christ's sake.
If I somehow managed to get a job in Germany/Netherlands/Sweden/etc.. I'd earn 3 to 4 times more including additional benefits.
How suprising is it that people like me are moving away from Portugal?

[The Lawspeaker]

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[Catrau]

After I'm done I'll earn, what, €1000 before taxes? That's just slightly above being enough to pay for a house rent in Lisbon/Porto and pay for basic expenses - I'll likely have to stay at my parent's place for a while before moving out - and I'll want to start a familiy for Christ's sake.
If I somehow managed to get a job in Germany/Netherlands/Sweden/etc.. I'd earn 3 to 4 times more including additional benefits.
How suprising is it that people like me are moving away from Portugal?

I don't want to disappoint you but although lower wages are really lower than you have in western Europe, you're right about that but those differences are usually in the rage of 30%. The salaries you are mentioning are for senior engineers before taxes and, that amount, a senior Engineers could earn also in Portugal before the civil construction collapse 2 years ago. It wouldn't be the average senior engineer salary but working hard wasn't that difficult. What I point out is that we have a more unjust society because our lower salaries are lower than in the other western European countries and top salaries for seniors can be higher. The perfect example is Spain where a civil construction worker could earn as much as the double but a doctor, a judge a bank manager etc., earn less. That gap is the worst thing.
I do not pay attention to those news in papers and TV that talk about salary differences of several folds more and at the same time cheaper life and supermarket. I say this because I know that higher wages mean higher cost of life and if you put the housing or renting in the equation things really level. The only thing that would make me go elsewhere to work would be a short time experience or the lacking of job, otherwise, I know that I can live better here with 1000€ than in Germany with 1300-1500€. There is no free lunch if you want to get 4000€ a month, you have to work 16 hours a day.

[Damião de Góis]

Is this the emigration thread? You guys should create another thread about emigration if you like it so much :rolleyes:

Here's a video of a train crossing the bridge, leaving Lisbon towards the south.

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[Loddfafner]

I love old school European trains. In a compartment in the Algarve, I met a British tourist who later gave me a place to stay in England. The newer trains are too sleek and are not as conducive to serendipitous encounters.

[Damião de Góis]

I love old school European trains. In a compartment in the Algarve, I met a British tourist who later gave me a place to stay in England. The newer trains are too sleek and are not as conducive to serendipitous encounters.

The newer ones are are much better. We don't "feel the trip" because they are very smooth and not noisy at all. They are confortable too.
I once went from Lisbon to Coimbra on one of the old trains and i think i lost some years of my life. It was horrible :D

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