Irish History: "Spain and Ireland"

[Murphy]

This is a 10 part series of videos from Pat Flannery on Spanish-Irish relations throughout history. Well worth the watching if you have an interest in the history of the Irish people.

PART I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJn7KSmZQSk

PART II
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taOuzROhiVc

PART III
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_eDpVKt6n4

PART IV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64vyX-weiPU

PART V
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ecnuBTWTknc

PART VI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OcNo6LycsH8

PART VII
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03kOt74MT6Q

PART VIII
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rA1Iv6qWk1k

PART IX
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T-stb5IB0rQ

PART X
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O1mYEjUTJ8M

[Amapola]

Really interesting...

Have you heard of this book?
http://www.ucd.ie/history/news/dmd.jpg

Declan M. Downey & Julio Crespo MacLennan, editors

This collection of essays, the proceedings of the 1st International Conference on Spanish-Irish Relations, held in Salamanca in 2004, is representative of a whole new historiographical approach to and revision of the study of Irish history from Continental European sources (in this case Spanish sources). The contributors provide new and exciting insights based on original source material, into the cultural, economic, diplomatic and political dimensions of the centuries-old relationships between Spain and Ireland. The chronological scope of this collection incorporates the medieval, early modern and modern/contemporary periods.

[Murphy]

Really interesting...

Have you heard of this book?
http://www.ucd.ie/history/news/dmd.jpg

Declan M. Downey & Julio Crespo MacLennan, editors

This collection of essays, the proceedings of the 1st International Conference on Spanish-Irish Relations, held in Salamanca in 2004, is representative of a whole new historiographical approach to and revision of the study of Irish history from Continental European sources (in this case Spanish sources). The contributors provide new and exciting insights based on original source material, into the cultural, economic, diplomatic and political dimensions of the centuries-old relationships between Spain and Ireland. The chronological scope of this collection incorporates the medieval, early modern and modern/contemporary periods.

I have not, but I am adding this to my order list!

Regards,
Eóin.

[Óttar]

This is a 10 part series of videos from Pat Flannery on Spanish-Irish relations throughout history. Well worth the watching if you have an interest in the history of the Irish people.
I already posted this in the Ireland section.

See: http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4683

[Murphy]

I already posted this in the Ireland section.

I must have missed it, sorry :eek:!

Regards,
Eóin.

Edit: I posted first :P?

[Óttar]

Edit: I posted first :P?
Whoops, you're right.

[Murphy]

Whoops, you're right.

Mwuahaha :D:thumb001:!

Regards,
Eóin.

[Goidelic]

There were also Spanish relations elsewhere in the British Isles. :)

A Fine Romance: Anglo-Spanish Relations in the Sixteenth Century

Alexander Samson
University College London London, United Kingdom

England and Spain's close ties of kinship had bound the royal houses together stretching back to the thirteenth century. In the later sixteenth century, English interest in Spanish culture, history, and politics had intensified precisely during the period when political relations had deteriorated into war. The perception of closeness and filiation ran parallel with enmity and hate. This study demonstrates the complexity of diplomatic and cultural exchange, assimilation, competition, and cooperation that characterized the intricate alliance between England and Spain. It examines England and Spain's shared cultural heritage and the trade agreements and dynastic marriages that had linked them closely by blood. Special attention is given to Philip II's entry into London in 1554 as the new English king, a pivotal moment in the rivalry between the two countries. While popular hostility and fear of Spanish domination certainly contributed to the conflict surrounding the marriage of Philip and Mary, the most difficult issue for the royal couple was the household drama in which the parties on each side sought their own prestige and commercial and political advantage. Perhaps this moment of international diplomatic relations demonstrates above all the delicate balance between honesty and deception, admiration and jealousy, cooperation and rivalry, love and hate that can be found in any close relationship.

Anglo-Spanish Relations and the Hispaniolized English Catholic examines how the dependence of exiled Catholics upon the Spanish Habsburgs was represented and exploited by both Catholics and their adversaries. When the Elizabethan soldier Sir William Stanley defected to the Catholic side in the Low Countries, he was pilloried as a degenerate, unnatural Englishmen. In the language of Protestant polemic, Stanley had become a “Hispaniolated” or “Hispaniolized” Englishman. This chapter traces the emergence and deployment of a discourse of Hispaniolization, as well as Catholic counter-discourses. Texts examined include Robert Persons's accounts of English Catholic seminaries in Spain, as well as works about the exile experience of the English Bridgettine nuns.

http://jmems.dukejournals.org/cgi/content/short/39/1/65?rss=1

[Amapola]

Ireland and Spain in the reign of Philip II.
http://www.irishinspain.org/imagenes/ireland_spain_eghernan.jpg
The doctoral study: La cuestión irlandesa en la política internacional de Felipe II, formed the core of Dr. García Hernán’s publication Irlanda y el Rey Prudente. In view of the recent flourishing of a new historiography concerning the centuries old relationship between Ireland and Spain, the translation and augmentation of the study of ‘Ireland and the Prudent King’ into this book Ireland and Spain in the reign of Philip II, is a most fundamentally important and welcome contribution.
Dr. García Hernán’s methodology differs from the norm in what is referred to in continental Europe as the ‘Anglo-Saxon practice of History’. Instead of incorporating the historiography of the period and its issues as a central discursive element in his narrative, he has concentrated on exposing the evidence from the wealth of primary archival sources that he has researched and interpreted. His intention is, primarily, to let the archival testimony inform his study and by extension, the reader. Like a master-huntsman whose skilled in ferreting rabbits out of warrens, Dr. García Hernán has provided the community of scholars with a valuable service in ferreting out hitherto unknown information concerning Philip II’s relations with the Irish from a wide range of Austrian, Bavarian, Belgian, British, Irish Portuguese, Roman and Spanish archival sources and placing it in the public domain. It may well be expected that this work will stimulate further scholarly investigation, interpretation and debate among historians. Such deliberation is to be welcomed ! From the Foreword by Dr Declan M. Downey

Irish Jansenists, 1600-70.
http://www.irishinspain.org/imagenes/irish_jansenists.jpg
This is the story of the founding phase of one of the most significant political and religious movements in 17th-century Ireland, France and Spanish Flanders. This book looks at the cultural, political and religious environment which provided a home for Jansenism in Ireland. It examines Irish contributions to Belgian and French versions of Jansenism and traces the fortunes of Irish Jansenists, their friends and their foes in the troubled 1640s. It offers an assessment of the import and influence of the movement on Irish political, religious and cultural identity.

The Database on the Irish military presence in the Spanish Armies, 1580–1818
http://www.irishinspain.org/imagenes/BDpresenciairlandesa.jpg
http://www.irishinspain.org/archivos/cdrompresenceirish.pdf

Richard Wall, the Irish-Spanish Minister
http://www.irlandeses.org/imagenes/0707tellez1.jpg
http://www.irlandeses.org/0707tellez1.htm

Ireland and Iberia: An Introduction
http://www.irlandeses.org/imagenes/0707cover1.jpg
http://www.irlandeses.org/0707perezt1.htm

When merit alone is not enough Money as a ‘parallel route’ for Irish military advancement in Spain
http://www.irlandeses.org/imagenes/0707recio1.jpg
http://www.irlandeses.org/0707recio1.htm

Irish communities in early modern Europe. Thomas O’Connor & Mary Ann Lyons EDITORS.
http://www.irishinspain.org/imagenes/ir_communit.jpg
The third collection of essays by the Irish in Europe Project, this book explores the emergence of Irish communities across Europe from Sweden to the southerly tip of Spain. Topics include Irish entrepreneurs in Sweden’s industrialization; Irish merchant dynasties in Ostend and Seville; the material culture of Irish émigré families in 18th-century France; rivalry within communities of Irish students in Paris, Toulouse and Cahors; Irish involvement in international diplomacy in Rome and Spain; Napoleon’s Irish Legion and Irish participation in the battle of Cremona; literacy among Irish immigrants in Spain, and the translation of Irish Counter-Reformation literature.

Irish émigré group strategies of survivaL adaptation and integration in seventeenthand eighteenth-century Spain
http://www.irishinspain.org/archivos/libtoconnor_oremo.pdf

Irish clerics in Madrid, 1598-1665*
http://www.irishinspain.org/archivos/libtoconnor_eghernan.pdf

Irish political activity in Spain during the Restoration
http://www.irishinspain.org/archivos/libtoconnor_ipetos.pdf

Hugh O'Neill: free spirit, religious chameleon or ardent Catholic? THOMAS O'CONNOR
http://www.irishinspain.org/archivos/hugh_oconnor.pdf

Spanish army attitudes to the Irish at Kinsale
http://www.irishinspain.org/archivos/spanish_oscar.pdf

DIPLOMATIC PREPARATIONS FOR KINSALE: LOMBARD'S COMMENTARIUS (1600)
http://www.irishinspain.org/archivos/diplomatic_oconnor.pdf

THE CIRCULATION OF INFORMATION AND THE IRISH PRESSURE GROUP IN THE COURT OF SPAIN
http://www.irishinspain.org/archivos/cautamente_igorpe.pdf

[Ibericus]

Sorry, but this historian is a fucking ignorant when he says "south Iberia was more african". Actually, the south of Iberia was also Celtic, and there was no fucking african presence

[Don]

One of the few non-spaniard girls I shared more than friendship was Irish.
Her father was an old stubborn, studied and catholic ancient irish man who knew personally Michael Collins, something that can explain a little about his ideas.

When the first time she told him that she was with a Spaniard, a Castilian specifically, his old bones jumped from satisfaction and pride. I knew that historically, genetically and culturally there was a connection, but the admiration/interest of that old man with me and all regarding to old Spain, broke all overwhelmed my premade ideas.
But that is a long and past history.
Anyway, that old man and "Schneits" (that was pronunciated in my castilian) weren't disappointed as well with the Caballero. For sure. Nobleza Obliga.

[Murphy]

Sorry, but this historian is a fucking ignorant when he says "south Iberia was more african". Actually, the south of Iberia was also Celtic, and there was no fucking african presence

"African" does not mean southern Iberia was covered in "spear-chucking-niggers". It would make sense for southern Iberia to have close ties with north-western Africa after all.

[Ibericus]

"African" does not mean southern Iberia was covered in "spear-chucking-niggers". It would make sense for southern Iberia to have close ties with north-western Africa after all.
Actually South Iberia had Iberians, Celts and Tartassian culture, which is tought to be Pre-Celtic. There was no african presence.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Ethnographic_Iberia_200_BCE.PNG/644px-Ethnographic_Iberia_200_BCE.PNG

[Murphy]

Actually South Iberia had Iberians, Celts and Tartassian culture, which is tought to be Pre-Celtic. There was no african presence.

Don't simplify it so much. For a start, what exactly was he discussing when he spoke of Spain and Africa? And having close ties with Africa doesn't mean there had to be African cultures etc., in Spain. It simply means there was economic, political and history connections. Which you really cannot deny due to the close proximity. And the same would be said in relation with the rest of the Mediterranean world.

[Amapola]

Sorry, but this historian is a fucking ignorant when he says "south Iberia was more african". Actually, the south of Iberia was also Celtic, and there was no fucking african presence
When does he say that and in what context? I Don't remember.

ahh those times, Jon Paul, I liked when you were Eoin :D

[Ibericus]

Don't simplify it so much. For a start, what exactly was he discussing when he spoke of Spain and Africa? And having close ties with Africa doesn't mean there had to be African cultures etc., in Spain. It simply means there was economic, political and history connections. Which you really cannot deny due to the close proximity. And the same would be said in relation with the rest of the Mediterranean world.

Well, he says "The north of Spain was Celtic, while the south was more African" which is not true. The south was also Celtic territory, part Iberian and part Tartessian (pre-Celt)

[Murphy]

Well, he says "The north of Spain was Celtic, while the south was more African" which is not true. The south was also Celtic territory, part Iberian and part Tartessian (pre-Celt)

Fair enough. In that case you are free to debate that, but try and avoid calling him a "fucking ignorant" at perceiving every discussion about Spain to be a slight on your personal honour.

In any case, he was well spoken on the actual main topic of the discussion.. Irish-Spanish relations.

[Amapola]

Southern or "Med-Eastern" Spanish food, dress, everyday habits, man's attitude towards enviroment... have few points in contact, overall, with Moorish survivals, and if they coincide is rather because of the common Mediterranean roots than because of that sensational "influence"

[Murphy]

I think a problem with some of the Spaniards at this forum is if that they're putting too much stock on what others, and you know who I am talking about, believe and think about Spain.

If I woke up tomorrow and found out that 80% of Spaniards all have negro ancestry, I wouldn't blink an eye as it would not change any of the history between them and my people an the huge contribution they have made to Christendom.. which is Europe.

[Amapola]

Sorry, but this historian is a fucking ignorant when he says "south Iberia was more african". Actually, the south of Iberia was also Celtic, and there was no fucking african presence


I think a problem with some of the Spaniards at this forum is if that they're putting too much stock on what others, and you know who I am talking about, believe and think about Spain.

If I woke up tomorrow and found out that 80% of Spaniards all have negro ancestry, I wouldn't blink an eye as it would not change any of the history between them and my people an the huge contribution they have made to Christendom.. which is Europe.

I totally agree.

I me myself... am in a lively mood to speak about the Moors influence in Spain after reading 3 books on the matter! ;) No more secret about it, on the other hand, I don't give a damn about race... although it's sometimes a bit tiring to cope with too much ignorance over and over again.

[Murphy]

Certainly, see fit to correct others when the are truly ignorant on your history.. but keep in mind 9 times out of 10 those who are ignorant only simply wish to troll you.

[Radojica]

I totally agree.

I me myself... am in a lively mood to speak about the Moors influence in Spain after reading 3 books on the matter! ;) No more secret about it, on the other hand, I don't give a damn about race... although it's sometimes a bit tiring to cope with too much ignorance over and over again.

Cough, cough, tell to the people what your grandmother said about all of you Spanish people :swl :swl. She is older with a lot of experience ;)

[Ibericus]

well there are more lies about Spain and spanairds than any other country. We have to be aware and correct people. Even historians like this one, have these stupid stereotypes "the south is African while the north was Celt" totally unfounded. And his students now all believe in this shite.

[Amapola]

well there are more lies about Spain and spanairds than any other country. We have to be aware and correct people. Even historians like this one, have these stupid stereotypes "the south is African while the north was Celt" totally unfounded. And his students now all believe in this shite.

Anyway... I was asking myself last night (instead of sleeping and after reading one of Fanjul's masterpieces... if the English or the Dutch had their own "Las Casas"? I am really curious...

[Bridie]

Anyway... I was asking myself last night (instead of sleeping and after reading one of Fanjul's masterpieces... if the English or the Dutch had their own "Las Casas"? I am really curious...I assume you mean indigenous rights activists (in the "New World")? :) I think you'd find that there have been many throughout the history of Imperialism, though not necessarily as famous as Bartolomé de las Casas.

[Amapola]

I assume you mean indigenous rights activists (in the "New World")? :) I think you'd find that there have been many throughout the history of Imperialism, though not necessarily as famous as Bartolomé de las Casas.

Not exactly an indigenous rights activist.

Bartolome Casaus, as he liked to sign, turns out to be the first pro-slavery individual in America, the first one "importing blacks" even against the Crowns' will... on the other hand it seems less "curious" the wide Las Casas' contacts with the Flemish Court which was so scalped because of the payments to the Crown of Castile and that would, later on, after the consumation of the heresy, the first to spread it with fake drawings (ex. Jacques Miggrode).

[Bridie]

Not exactly an indigenous rights activist.

Bartolome Casaus, as he liked to sign, turns out to be the first pro-slavery individual in America, the first one "importing blacks" even against the Crowns' will... on the other hand it seems less "curious" the wide Las Casas' contacts with the Flemish Court which was so scalped because of the payments to the Crown of Castile and that would, later on, after the consumation of the heresy, the first to spread it with fake drawings (ex. Jacques Miggrode).Ok, well you've inspired me now Alana. :) I'm off to do some reading. :)

[antonio]

Actually South Iberia had Iberians, Celts and Tartassian culture, which is tought to be Pre-Celtic. There was no african presence.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/c8/Ethnographic_Iberia_200_BCE.PNG/644px-Ethnographic_Iberia_200_BCE.PNG

I always liked that map. Simple and accurate. Just lacking the Gaulish settlements in Ebro Valley, its affluents and Catalonia.

Ps. Or not that simple, just for the amount of culturized people blindly believing XIX-shit about Prerromanic Hispania.