What is wrong with such distances on my K15?

[Avgvstvs]

Looking at single distances i noticed that my closest population, Tuscan, is at 11 of distance! Seems too much. Is it a bug or somebody can explain the reason of that?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210626/7240226bb6aa1729ca6a7f81bdbc8379.jpg

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[Avgvstvs]

My K13 has more "normal" distances

Which one is more accurate?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210626/d47e2f16fae5da81dcc472001ecbe129.jpg

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[reboun]

Seems Eurogenes K13 is more accurate.

[Avgvstvs]

Seems Eurogenes K13 is more accurate.Yes, but why on K15 distances are so big?

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[reboun]

Yes, but why on K15 distances are so big?

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

I am not sure but each project's dataset might be different from each other. Each ethnicity has some diversity in it and by chance, if Italian samples from K13 is closer to your DNA than you are to Italian samples in K15, this might give such results.

[Avgvstvs]

I am not sure but each project's dataset might be different from each other. Each ethnicity has some diversity in it and by chance, if Italian samples from K13 is closer to your DNA than you are to Italian samples in K15, this might give such results.Could be.

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[Avgvstvs]

More opinions to make it clear?

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[Lemminkäinen]

The data is forced into k groups leading to fitting errors already in the original test. You simply fall between those 15 k groups.

[Avgvstvs]

The data is forced into k groups leading to fitting errors already in the original test. You simply fall between those 15 k groups.So it's a problem of the calculator? Because K13 makes more sense

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[Lemminkäinen]

So it's a problem of the calculator? Because K13 makes more sense

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

Yes. K15 can be good for someone and k13 for someone else. It depends on whether both you and the population average fit well without high fitting error.

[Avgvstvs]

Yes. K15 can be good for someone and k13 for someone else. It depends on whether both you and the population average fit well without high fitting error.Thank you for the help

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[Dunai]

Try K13 Updated calculator on Vahaduo, it's much better than the standard offered by Gedmatch

[Ion Basescul]

My K13 has more "normal" distances

Which one is more accurate?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210626/d47e2f16fae5da81dcc472001ecbe129.jpg

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

K15 is simply worse, there's nothing more to it. I've been saying this for years.

[Luke35]

It doesn't matter because the bottom line is that on K15 and K13 you match the same populations and in a similar order, more or less. That's much more important.

[Avgvstvs]

It doesn't matter because the bottom line is that on K15 and K13 you match the same populations and in a similar order, more or less. That's much more important.That for sure, quite similar results

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[vbnetkhio]

Looking at single distances i noticed that my closest population, Tuscan, is at 11 of distance! Seems too much. Is it a bug or somebody can explain the reason of that?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210626/7240226bb6aa1729ca6a7f81bdbc8379.jpg

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

k15 has 2 extra components, so there's more space for individual variation.

e.g this is the Tuscan average in k15
Italy_Tuscany,17.25,20.05,6.52,2.79,20.41,9.07,19. 20,3.54,0.57,0.25,0.02,0.06,0.14,0.08,0.02

and if, for example, your first component is 12 instead of 17, second 25 instead of 20, the third 12 instead of 6, this is still a normal result for a Tuscan, but your distance will be huge.

[Avgvstvs]

k15 has 2 extra components, so there's more space for individual variation.

e.g this is the Tuscan average in k15
Italy_Tuscany,17.25,20.05,6.52,2.79,20.41,9.07,19. 20,3.54,0.57,0.25,0.02,0.06,0.14,0.08,0.02

and if, for example, your first component is 12 instead of 17, second 25 instead of 20, the third 12 instead of 6, this is still a normal result for a Tuscan, but your distance will be huge.I see

So the reason why K13 has closer results is because it has less components, right?

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[vbnetkhio]

I see

So the reason why K13 has closer results is because it has less components, right?

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

yeah

[Petalpusher]

I think this is because of the higher North Sea and other subsequent components you get, this is what we were discussing last time. It makes you drift further away from the population avg you would be naturally the closest, when the K13 breakdown with N.Atlantic and Baltic and so on, works better and easily thightens your distance. I also think K13 is a superior calc in most cases.

[Avgvstvs]

I think this is because of the higher North Sea and other subsequent components you get, this is what we were discussing last time. It makes you drift further away from the population avg you would be naturally the closest, when the K13 breakdown with N.Atlantic and Baltic and so on, works better and easily thightens your distance. I also think K13 is a superior calc in most cases.So also the admixture components are better in K13? Because i still don't know which one i should trust more also regarding west/east med %

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[Kaspias]

K15 probably being one of the worst calculators of the Gedmatch, is clearly the most overrated one.

[Avgvstvs]

K15 probably being one of the worst calculators of the Gedmatch, is clearly the most overrated one.Which are some good ones that you'd recommend?

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[Kaspias]

Which are some good ones that you'd recommend?

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

Eurogenes K13 and Dodecad K12b are the top tier. You may also find MDLP World and PuntDNAL K15(works efficiently for Balkanites, did not test for the rest of Europe) interesting. I also like MDLP K23b but it is solely because of it's components, don't really think it's oracles are appropriate for daily usage.

[Avgvstvs]

Eurogenes K13 and Dodecad K12b are the top tier. You may also find MDLP World and PuntDNAL K15(works efficiently for Balkanites, did not test for the rest of Europe) interesting. I also like MDLP K23b but it is solely because of it's components, don't really think it's oracles are appropriate for daily usage.I am satisfied with K13

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[vbnetkhio]

Which are some good ones that you'd recommend?

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

besides the ones Kasipas mentioned, k36 is also worth checking, simply because it's the only one with a North African and a Fennoscandian component.

[Avgvstvs]

besides the ones Kasipas mentioned, k36 is also worth checking, simply because it's the only one with a North African and a Fennoscandian component.I checked it, I get none of them[emoji38]

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[Zoro]

Looking at single distances i noticed that my closest population, Tuscan, is at 11 of distance! Seems too much. Is it a bug or somebody can explain the reason of that?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210626/7240226bb6aa1729ca6a7f81bdbc8379.jpg

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

Generally it’s to be expected. The more the components the greater the distances become because you are comparing more components of each user. That’s why the k36 doesn’t even have oracle. On the other hand the ones with only 3 components like K3 Gedrosia has tiny distances because you’re only comparing 3 components and it becomes hard to differentiate an Albanian from an Italian

[Avgvstvs]

Generally it’s to be expected. The more the components the greater the distances become because you are comparing more components of each user. That’s why the k36 doesn’t even have oracle. On the other hand the ones with only 3 components like K3 Gedrosia has tiny distances because you’re only comparing 3 components and it becomes hard to differentiate an Albanian from an ItalianI get it now, so it is more precise

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[Zoro]

I get it now, so it is more precise

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

I’m not sure if precise is the word. I would argue that too many components exaggerate differences between closely related populations whereas too few components line up more with very ancient relationships

[Avgvstvs]

I’m not sure if precise is the word. I would argue that too many components exaggerate differences between closely related populations whereas too few components line up more with very ancient relationshipsYeah, so would you say K13 is a good intermediate?

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[Luke35]

Yeah, so would you say K13 is a good intermediate?

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

It seems to me K13 is very good for you. And I think that for most Europeans, if you had to pick only one calc, then Eurogenes K13 is a solid choice.

It happens to be that the higher component calcs (K15, K36, G25) seem a little more effective at dividing up my ancestry, but that is very specific to me and my particular mix.

[gixajo]

Yeah, so would you say K13 is a good intermediate?

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

How many SNPs were used in your evaluation?

In both, K13 and K15.

[Avgvstvs]

How many SNPs were used in your evaluation?

In both, K13 and K15.SNP meaning?

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[Leto]

Original, unupdated oracles are basically useless. Vahaduo is the real deal.

[Avgvstvs]

Original, unupdated oracles are basically useless. Vahaduo is the real deal.Which calculators of Vahaduo would you suggest?

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[Leto]

Which calculators of Vahaduo would you suggest?

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk
I agree with Kaspias' take. But sometimes K15 is okay too.

[Avgvstvs]

I agree with Kaspias' take. But sometimes K15 is okay too.I tried K13 on Vahaduo, and there my top 5 is:

1) Italian_Umbria
2)Italian_Lazio
3)Italian_Marche
4)Italian_Romagna
5)Italian_Tuscan

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

[gixajo]

SNP meaning?

Inviato dal mio SM-A405FN utilizzando Tapatalk

https://i.imgur.com/gnXu5l8.png