Are Ossetians genetically as "Euro" as Central Italians, Mainland Greeks, Albanians?

[kleenex]

I'm not sure if this has been broached on other threads but when playing around with Vahaduo G25, specifically exploring Neolithic/Post Neolithic components of Southern Europeans, Balkanites, and Eastern Populations (Caucasians) that Ossetians could be within the range of other Southern Euros if not for the high CHG. But if I'm not mistaken CHG is a relatively significant Euro component and provided considerable admixture to later Steppe populations. Could we make an argument that Ossetians are favorably linked to Euro populations?
Target: Ossetian
Distance: 2.4200% / 0.02419978
50.4 GEO_CHG
19.2 TUR_Barcin_N
14.8 Yamnaya_UKR
11.6 Levant_PPNB
4.0 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

[kleenex]

Here's the Armenian result which is significantly more Eastern.
Target: Armenian
Distance: 3.2567% / 0.03256750
30.0 TUR_Barcin_N
24.4 GEO_CHG
21.4 Levant_PPNB
19.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.6 Yamnaya_UKR

[kleenex]

Target: Georgian_Laz
Distance: 2.5014% / 0.02501441
46.4 GEO_CHG
31.4 TUR_Barcin_N
14.2 Levant_PPNB
6.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.6 Yamnaya_UKR

[Grogu]

They spoke an indo euro language so yes they are white.

[Dr_Maul]

I wouldn't go as far as calling CHG European, going by that then the average Turk or Iranian is 80% European

[kleenex]

I wouldn't go as far as calling CHG European, going by that then the average Turk or Iranian is 80% European

Some folks have claimed that CHG is much more Euro like than say Iran Ganj Dareh. My point is that compared to other Caucasus populations they have a stronger connection to European populations.

[Dr_Maul]

Some folks have claimed that CHG is much more Euro like than say Iran Ganj Dareh. My point is that compared to other Caucasus populations they have a stronger connection to European populations.

Well CHG is definitely more European than Iran_N for sure. But I am not sure it is actually European overall.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

South Italians are more "Euro" than Ossetians


Distance to: ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso:RMPR15
0.48532131 Italian_Campania
0.48959348 Italian_Calabria
0.51389280 North_Ossetian
0.51901080 Ossetian

Even Natufians were more Euro than CHG


Distance to: ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso:RMPR15
0.54956986 Levant_Natufian:I0861
0.56333450 Levant_Natufian_contam:I1072
0.57910634 GEO_CHG:KK1

[Petalpusher]

Depends how you define what is European, but if CHG is a valid European metric then Iranians and even Indians are the most Europeans. What makes some groups of Caucasians Euro leaning is their paleo Eurasian/meso Euro. CHG still captured a bit of that too in itself, as in a bit more than Iran_N but it's still overwhelmingly basal. It still ends up being even more distant than Natufians as seen above (meso Euro being the least). Sometimes it's also about what a group doesnt have, this differentiate north Caucasians from other highly CHG groups, they don't have Oceanian or SSA. Obviously that makes a difference in look, and that is replaced by more west/north Eurasian/IE.

[Ion Basescul]

Depends how you define what is European, but if CHG is a valid European metric then Iranians and even Indians are the most Europeans. What makes some groups of Caucasians Euro leaning is their paleo Eurasian/meso Euro.


Depigmented Indians look kind of European, while Africans for example don't.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e5/f0/3c/e5f03c2b15626a767bfae78269ccde60.jpg

[Petalpusher]

Depigmented Indians look kind of European, while Africans for example don't.


https://i.pinimg.com/originals/e5/f0/3c/e5f03c2b15626a767bfae78269ccde60.jpg

I wouln't say so, they both look off when Albinos or not. More so Africans of course because Indians are less Oceanians than Africans..are Africans. A better comparison would be Indians to North Africans, as they have a similar amount of non West Eurasian or at least you can find an Indian group with a similar proportion.

[Leto]

Ossetians are probably the least European North Caucasians out there, Dagestanis are a lot whiter than them

Target: Avar
Distance: 2.9453% / 0.02945251
40.8 Yamnaya_UKR
27.2 GEO_CHG
13.6 TUR_Barcin_N
9.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.8 Levant_PPNB
0.4 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Dargin
Distance: 3.1677% / 0.03167672
42.8 Yamnaya_UKR
28.2 GEO_CHG
16.4 TUR_Barcin_N
8.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.6 Levant_PPNB
0.6 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Lak
Distance: 3.0182% / 0.03018236
40.2 Yamnaya_UKR
28.4 GEO_CHG
12.0 TUR_Barcin_N
10.0 Levant_PPNB
8.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Tabasaran
Distance: 2.8354% / 0.02835384
38.4 Yamnaya_UKR
25.0 GEO_CHG
16.2 TUR_Barcin_N
10.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.8 Levant_PPNB
0.8 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Huge Steppe-related admixture, though I suspect it may not be actual Steppe but rather some kind of shared ancestry.
Too bad there is no Lezgin average, don't know why.

Kumyks, Chechens and Ingush score less IE

Target: Kumyk
Distance: 2.4943% / 0.02494321
29.2 GEO_CHG
26.6 Yamnaya_UKR
18.6 TUR_Barcin_N
13.8 Levant_PPNB
6.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.4 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Chechen
Distance: 2.7362% / 0.02736172
37.6 GEO_CHG
28.8 Yamnaya_UKR
16.0 TUR_Barcin_N
11.8 Levant_PPNB
3.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.2 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N

Target: Ingush
Distance: 2.6392% / 0.02639208
40.2 GEO_CHG
24.8 Yamnaya_UKR
16.6 TUR_Barcin_N
13.2 Levant_PPNB
3.2 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N
2.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

[Ibericus]

If we use let's say "Germans" (can you use any other) as a standard for european, look at the distances, even the most borderline europeans (Maltese, Kos, Calabria...) are closest to germans than the Ossetians, and of course mainland Greeks/Albanians/Central Italians are much closer:

Distance to: Ossetian
0.16934864 German

Distance to: Greek_Kos
0.13857988 German

Distance to: Italian_Calabria
0.12507496 German

Distance to: Maltese
0.12183199 German

Distance to: Greek_Peloponnese
0.09784174 German

Distance to: Albanian
0.08492243 German

Distance to: Italian_Tuscany
0.08622379 German

[Avicenna]

If we use let's say "Germans" (can you use any other) as a standard for european, look at the distances, even the most borderline europeans (Maltese, Kos, Calabria...) are closest to germans than the Ossetians, and of course mainland Greeks/Albanians/Central Italians are much closer:

Distance to: Ossetian
0.16934864 German

Distance to: Greek_Kos
0.13857988 German

Distance to: Italian_Calabria
0.12507496 German

Distance to: Maltese
0.12183199 German

Distance to: Greek_Peloponnese
0.09784174 German

Distance to: Albanian
0.08492243 German

Distance to: Italian_Tuscany
0.08622379 German

There is a massive flaw in this logic though . Using Germans as the standard for European doesn't make sense when discussing the "europeaness " of a ethnciity outside of Europe but still close to certain european ethncities . Make the same run but using Russians as the standard for European or ukranian ?

[Ibericus]

There is a massive flaw in this logic though . Using Germans as the standard for European doesn't make sense when discussing the "europeaness " of a ethnciity outside of Europe but still close to certain european ethncities . Make the same run but using Russians as the standard for European or ukranian ?

OK, so using Ukrainian instead of German, they are still closer than Ossetians:

Distance to: Ossetian
0.18036462 Ukrainian

Distance to: Greek_Kos
0.16478869 Ukrainian

Distance to: Maltese
0.15081878 Ukrainian

Distance to: Greek_Peloponnese
0.12333513 Ukrainian

Distance to: Italian_Tuscany
0.12312530 Ukrainian

Distance to: Albanian
0.11065548 Ukrainian

[Zanzibar]

I wouln't say so, they both look off when Albinos or not. More so Africans of course because Indians are less Oceanians than Africans..are Africans. A better comparison would be Indians to North Africans, as they have a similar amount of non West Eurasian or at least you can find an Indian group with a similar proportion.

Yup if I'm not wrong, its Punjabi Sikhs/Jatts and some other upper caste North Indians, maybe also Sindhis, who have similar amounts of non-West Eurasian to North Africans.

Most Indians and a lot of Indic Pakistanis including Dalits/Christians have as much West Eurasian as Horn Africans such as Ethiopians, Somalians are.

[Zanzibar]

I wouln't say so, they both look off when Albinos or not. More so Africans of course because Indians are less Oceanians than Africans..are Africans. A better comparison would be Indians to North Africans, as they have a similar amount of non West Eurasian or at least you can find an Indian group with a similar proportion.

Forgot to add, in fact I would say the West Eurasian amount of North Africans is more comparable to those of Iranic and Dardic Pakistanis such as Pathan, Baloch/Brahui, Kalash, Burusho, Kohistani, etc. Anyone who is from the region please correct me if I am wrong.

[Avicenna]

OK, so using Ukrainian instead of German, they are still closer than Ossetians:

Distance to: Ossetian
0.18036462 Ukrainian

Distance to: Greek_Kos
0.16478869 Ukrainian

Distance to: Maltese
0.15081878 Ukrainian

Distance to: Greek_Peloponnese
0.12333513 Ukrainian

Distance to: Italian_Tuscany
0.12312530 Ukrainian

Distance to: Albanian
0.11065548 Ukrainian

Then your point stands . Btw can I see one for russian?

[Ibericus]

Then your point stands . Btw can I see one for russian?

Similar to using Ukrainians:

Distance to: Ossetian
0.18929339 Russian_Smolensk

Distance to: Maltese
0.16387460 Russian_Smolensk

Distance to: Greek_Peloponnese
0.13695552 Russian_Smolensk

Distance to: Italian_Tuscany
0.13637031 Russian_Smolensk

Distance to: Albanian
0.12429016 Russian_Smolensk

[Avicenna]

Similar to using Ukrainians:

Distance to: Ossetian
0.18929339 Russian_Smolensk

Distance to: Maltese
0.16387460 Russian_Smolensk

Distance to: Greek_Peloponnese
0.13695552 Russian_Smolensk

Distance to: Italian_Tuscany
0.13637031 Russian_Smolensk

Distance to: Albanian
0.12429016 Russian_Smolensk
That's suprising but makes sense . Thanks.

[Jana]

They are not.