Central Asian component of MyHeritage is about 85-90% East Eurasian

[reboun]

I sometimes watch MyHeritage videos on YouTube. Most Turkish people score at least some amount of Central Asian. If posted, I also look their GEDmatch results and their GEDmatch shows their East Eurasian (Siberian + East Asian + Amerindian) score is about 85-90% of their Central Asian score on MyHeritage. For example, if someone scored 10% Central Asian, they usually get 8.5-9% East Eurasian in total on GEDmatch.

Although modern-day Central Asians are about 50% East Eurasian in total, Central Asian on MyHeritage is about 85-90% East Eurasian when GEDmatch analysis is done. What is the reason behind that?

[reboun]

Bump

[David24]

MyHeritage uses Hazaras as their reference for the Central Asian component (who are mainly of Mongolian descent). I think they should just update it and use Turkmens instead, then Turks would start scoring 50%+ Central Asian. Don't trust 23andme either! The so-called "Anatolian" component there is largely Central Asian! This huge mistake made by 23andme caused Central Asians like Turkmens and Uzbeks to start scoring around 50%~ Anatolian, which isn't true. It's the other way around, which most people don't realize, modern day so-called Anatolian Turks are heavily Central Asian genetically.

[Dunai]

MyHeritage uses Hazaras as their reference for the Central Asian component (who are mainly of Mongolian descent). I think they should just update it and use Turkmens instead, then Turks would start scoring 50%+ Central Asian. Don't trust 23andme either! The so-called "Anatolian" component there is largely Central Asian! This huge mistake made by 23andme caused Central Asians like Turkmens and Uzbeks to start scoring around 50%~ Anatolian, which isn't true. It's the other way around, which most people don't realize, modern day so-called Anatolian Turks are heavily Central Asian genetically.

Why would 23andMe make such a massive error in basing their Anatolian descriptor on Central Asian people, do you have any real proof for this?

[Zanzibar]

The Central Asian component could be based on Mongolians such as Kalmyks, Buryats and Khalkhas who tend to be around 85 to 90% Mongoloid on average.

[gixajo]

The Central Asian component could be based on Mongolians such as Kalmyks, Buryats and Khalkhas who tend to be around 85 to 90% Mongoloid on average.

And reference from datasheet called "khamnegan"?

[Zoro]

Why would 23andMe make such a massive error in basing their Anatolian descriptor on Central Asian people, do you have any real proof for this?

Proof is Turks and Iranians scoring near 100% W. Asian. 23andme and other commercial companies business model or goal is not to figure out how much east or west asian someone is. Their goal is to make everyone 100% of their own area which they have succeeded at with every 23andme update.

They do this by increasing references for example Turkish references. If the references are 10 or 15% East Asian it’s irrelevant because if you are similar to those Turkish references you’ll simply score 100% reference not 10 or 15% East Asian. They also have an algorithm that zeros out your minor admixture. All this to make you 100% your own ethnicity

[Zanzibar]

And reference from datasheet called "khamnegan"?

Not sure if they also include Khamnegan on the datasheet. They are around 92-93% Mongoloid though.

[Dr_Maul]

And reference from datasheet called "khamnegan"?

They are mongols too

[Dr_Maul]

Why would 23andMe make such a massive error in basing their Anatolian descriptor on Central Asian people, do you have any real proof for this?

Its not based off Central Asians, its based off of Turkish people who are already part Central Asian. This is because it only goes back 500 years and it assumes that the average Turk wouldn't have additional Central Asian by that time period

[Zoro]

From 23andme:


Central Asian

For thousands of years, Central Asian peoples have lived at the crossroads between eastern and western Eurasia, and their genetics reflect that history. Bounded by the Caspian Sea and China’s Taklamakan desert, the region has seen the empires of Alexander the Great, Genghis Khan, and Soviet Russia come and go. Today, Central Asia is home to over 100 million people, and their DNA contains varying degrees of similarity to East Asian, South Asian, or western Asian peoples.

The Central Asian population has the following recent ancestor locations:

Afghanistan
Kazakhstan
Kyrgyzstan
Tajikistan
Turkmenistan
Uzbekistan

Unless you have a recent ancestor from one of these areas you won’t score any

[gixajo]

Not sure if they also include Khamnegan on the datasheet. They are around 92-93% Mongoloid though.

Yes, they are in datasheet:


Khamnegan,0.043822,-0.3781832,0.0817976,-0.0270028,-0.0679202,-0.0412479,0.0171794,0.0239992,0.0093263,0.0107701,-0.0153456,-0.0018735,-0.0033002,-0.0005091,-0.0004613,-0.0018562,-0.0021904,0.0011907,0.0123939,0.0138941,-0.0079859,-0.0129464,-0.0118318,-0.0006387,0.0046822

[Dunai]

Its not based off Central Asians, its based off of Turkish people who are already part Central Asian. This is because it only goes back 500 years and it assumes that the average Turk wouldn't have additional Central Asian by that time period

Turkish are only in small minority Central Asian, they are largely West Asian, the two regions are very different genetically. Don't confuse original Turkish migrators with Modern Turkish people:

Distance to: Turk_Turkey_average
3.00512895 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
3.64550408 Turk_South_East
3.96010101 Turk_Central_East
5.02944331 Turk_East
5.48449633 Turk_Anatolia
5.57976702 Azerbaijani_Turkey
6.17801748 Turk_South
6.56949770 Turk_Central_West
7.02642868 Azeri
7.31416434 Azerbaijani_Iran
8.61360552 Turkmen_Iraq
9.59531136 Zaza
9.75373775 Kurd_Kurmanji_Turkey
10.65564639 Turk_North_West
10.94929221 Armenian_East
10.96024179 Armenian
11.15691266 Kurd_Sorani
11.42779506 Armenian_West
11.74225277 Greek_Trabzon
12.09068650 Kurdish
12.14646862 Talysh
12.27884359 Kurd_Iran
12.36409317 Georgian_Jewish
12.39676974 Turk_East_Black_Sea
12.44139060 Greek_Caucasus
12.63047505 Greek_Cappadocian
12.82233598 Iraqi_Baghdad
13.03292369 Mountain_Jew_Chechnya
13.19634419 Lor_Iran
13.81272964 Iranian
14.08589720 Assyrian_North
14.26001403 Assyrian_South
14.33051639 Assyrian_West
14.92895509 Turk_Meskhetian
15.65244709 Mandean
15.87774228 Laz
15.97736524 Nusayri
16.62618718 Kumyk
16.95299679 Turkmen
17.19071843 Iran_Centraleast
17.38530989 Kurdish_Jewish
17.58609678 Lebanese_Muslim
18.04634312 Greek_Chios
18.72594190 Iraqi_Jew
18.88436920 Turk_Cypriot
18.93691897 Syrian
19.24440178 Greek_Dodecanese
20.31731281 Balkar
20.50445074 Greek_Crete
20.57796637 Greek_Cypriot

[Voskos]

Interesting. I score 0%, how about you?

[reboun]

Interesting. I score 0%, how about you?

I did not take a test but I would score near 0% probably. I am fully of Bosniak background.

[Voskos]

I did not take a test but I would score near 0% probably. I am fully of Bosniak background.

You'd score some West Asian I guess though, right? Like every other Balkanite.

[reboun]

Double post

[reboun]

You'd score some West Asian I guess though, right? Like every other Balkanite.

Yes, I might score some West Asian but once I watched MyHeritage results of a YouTuber of Bosniak origin and he scores 100% Balkan.

[Dr_Maul]

Turkish are only in small minority Central Asian, they are largely West Asian, the two regions are very different genetically. Don't confuse original Turkish migrators with Modern Turkish people:

Distance to: Turk_Turkey_average
3.00512895 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
3.64550408 Turk_South_East
3.96010101 Turk_Central_East
5.02944331 Turk_East
5.48449633 Turk_Anatolia
5.57976702 Azerbaijani_Turkey
6.17801748 Turk_South
6.56949770 Turk_Central_West
7.02642868 Azeri
7.31416434 Azerbaijani_Iran
8.61360552 Turkmen_Iraq
9.59531136 Zaza
9.75373775 Kurd_Kurmanji_Turkey
10.65564639 Turk_North_West
10.94929221 Armenian_East
10.96024179 Armenian
11.15691266 Kurd_Sorani
11.42779506 Armenian_West
11.74225277 Greek_Trabzon
12.09068650 Kurdish
12.14646862 Talysh
12.27884359 Kurd_Iran
12.36409317 Georgian_Jewish
12.39676974 Turk_East_Black_Sea
12.44139060 Greek_Caucasus
12.63047505 Greek_Cappadocian
12.82233598 Iraqi_Baghdad
13.03292369 Mountain_Jew_Chechnya
13.19634419 Lor_Iran
13.81272964 Iranian
14.08589720 Assyrian_North
14.26001403 Assyrian_South
14.33051639 Assyrian_West
14.92895509 Turk_Meskhetian
15.65244709 Mandean
15.87774228 Laz
15.97736524 Nusayri
16.62618718 Kumyk
16.95299679 Turkmen
17.19071843 Iran_Centraleast
17.38530989 Kurdish_Jewish
17.58609678 Lebanese_Muslim
18.04634312 Greek_Chios
18.72594190 Iraqi_Jew
18.88436920 Turk_Cypriot
18.93691897 Syrian
19.24440178 Greek_Dodecanese
20.31731281 Balkar
20.50445074 Greek_Crete
20.57796637 Greek_Cypriot

Well Anatolian on 23andme still includes 20-30% Central Asian DNA as well as some Iranic and CentralAsia+Iranic is the reason that Uzbeks will score it

[Kaspias]

Why would 23andMe make such a massive error in basing their Anatolian descriptor on Central Asian people, do you have any real proof for this?

https://i.ibb.co/7Y81Crx/Ads-z.png


Turkish are only in small minority Central Asian, they are largely West Asian, the two regions are very different genetically. Don't confuse original Turkish migrators with Modern Turkish people:


That small minority makes up roughly 35% of Turkish ethnogenesis(pure C.A.) and around 50% when taking Iranian components into account. This applies to Anatolian Turks. In addition, not to mention the presence of Balkan Turks who usually regarded as a tiny minority but have a population equal to the total Hungarian population. All these determiners create a massive gap in the admixture breakdowns when a company decides to use modern Turkish people as if they are Anatolians. (I didn't mention the presence of non-Turks, took it into account too) At that stage, I should ask why would you even create a Turkish average while it is useless to bind groups who largely differ from each other(I assume you didn't even add Balkan Turks to the average?) and not even indicates anything related to the subject? If you want to draw a certain conclusion, model ethnic Turks by using regional natives and medieval Turkic proxies and note how differ Anatolian and Balkan Turks even within their own groups -surely not surprising when taking into account the region Turkey covers and historically covered- and between each other. This modeling would also tell you what their percentages of Turkic and native(Anatolian, Balkan) are. Then also see the presence of non-Turks in Turkey which can create a great shift when "Turkish" samples are randomly collected by these companies. And if this is the case that leads admixture breakdowns to be total bullshit for ethnic Turks, this might be the case for many other ethnicities(such as Greeks, Iranians, Russians...) as well, that's why they should not be taken seriously. This does not apply to a certain company, but all.

[Dunai]

https://i.ibb.co/7Y81Crx/Ads-z.png



That small minority makes up roughly 35% of Turkish ethnogenesis(pure C.A.) and around 50% when taking Iranian components into account. This applies to Anatolian Turks. In addition, not to mention the presence of Balkan Turks who usually regarded as a tiny minority but have a population equal to the total Hungarian population. All these determiners create a massive gap in the admixture breakdowns when a company decides to use modern Turkish people as if they are Anatolians. (I didn't mention the presence of non-Turks, took it into account too) At that stage, I should ask why would you even create a Turkish average while it is useless to bind groups who largely differ from each other(I assume you didn't even add Balkan Turks to the average?) and not even indicates anything related to the subject? If you want to draw a certain conclusion, model ethnic Turks by using regional natives and medieval Turkic proxies and note how differ Anatolian and Balkan Turks even within their own groups -surely not surprising when taking into account the region Turkey covers and historically covered- and between each other. This modeling would also tell you what their percentages of Turkic and native(Anatolian, Balkan) are. Then also see the presence of non-Turks in Turkey which can create a great shift when "Turkish" samples are randomly collected by these companies. And if this is the case that leads admixture breakdowns to be total bullshit for ethnic Turks, this might be the case for many other ethnicities(such as Greeks, Iranians, Russians...) as well, that's why they should not be taken seriously. This does not apply to a certain company, but all.

You are making it look like there is a wide conspiracy against Modern Turkish people by genetic testing companies. I simply see no evidence for them trying to misrepresent the true modern genetic makeup of Turkish people, since all these companies work based on scientific facts. 23andMe even has a category (Anatolian) that completely matches the largest part of Modern Turkish people, who live in Anatolia and adjacent areas. The reference of average Turkish result I took from Vahaduo K13, whoever uploaded it probably took into consideration the various diversity of Modern Turkish people, so don't need to blame me for using a population average that was on that site for a very long time. If you don't agree with that average being representative than you can anytime do a better one and upload it yourself. The matter of fact remains is that Modern Turkish people are most similar to their current neighbors, while Modern Central Asian Turks are already very different, with strong East Asian admixture, very rare in Modern Turkish people in significant proportions.

[Leto]

You are making it look like there is a wide conspiracy against Modern Turkish people by genetic testing companies. I simply see no evidence for them trying to misrepresent the true modern genetic makeup of Turkish people, since all these companies work based on scientific facts. 23andMe even has a category (Anatolian) that completely matches the largest part of Modern Turkish people, who live in Anatolia and adjacent areas. The reference of average Turkish result I took from Vahaduo K13, whoever uploaded it probably took into consideration the various diversity of Modern Turkish people, so don't need to blame me for using a population average that was on that site for a very long time. If you don't agree with that average being representative than you can anytime do a better one and upload it yourself. The matter of fact remains is that Modern Turkish people are most similar to their current neighbors, while Modern Central Asian Turks are already very different, with strong East Asian admixture, very rare in Modern Turkish people in significant proportions.
The Turks of Turkey are about 10% East Eurasian/Mongoloid on average. Some are less than that, some are more. But IMO 13-15% EE would be relatively rare in Turkey, 16-20% - very rare. However, Central Asian does not mean 100% or even 80-90% EE. There are plenty of Uzbeks and Turkmens that are barely 30% EE.

[Kaspias]

You are making it look like there is a wide conspiracy against Modern Turkish people by genetic testing companies. I simply see no evidence for them trying to misrepresent the true modern genetic makeup of Turkish people, since all these companies work based on scientific facts. 23andMe even has a category (Anatolian) that completely matches the largest part of Modern Turkish people, who live in Anatolia and adjacent areas. The reference of average Turkish result I took from Vahaduo K13, whoever uploaded it probably took into consideration the various diversity of Modern Turkish people, so don't need to blame me for using a population average that was on that site for a very long time. If you don't agree with that average being representative than you can anytime do a better one and upload it yourself. The matter of fact remains is that Modern Turkish people are most similar to their current neighbors, while Modern Central Asian Turks are already very different, with strong East Asian admixture, very rare in Modern Turkish people in significant proportions.

Read my statement again. What conspiracy? I'm talking about the general working procedure of these companies which not necessarily bothers Turkish ethnogenesis, but since Turkish ethnogenesis has a cosmopolitan structure, it also being bothered by the situation just like other communities which are under the same situation. 23andme has the category Anatolian because it aims to measure your recent ancestry, there is no problem, but when one comes up with the idea that modern Turks 100% Anatolian(by referencing admixture results) then here the misunderstanding of all these stuff begins. And I'm repeating, this does not necessarily apply to Turks, but also applies to many other communities as well.

Besides, the topic is not exactly about Vahaduo references, which I already explained in my previous post but you seem to ignore certain parts of it. I haven't claimed they are representative as opposite I believe they are highly representative, and in fact, I supplied them to the Vahaduo(Anatolian Turks taken by TurkishDNA). The thing which is useless is the Turkish average you created because of the reasons stated in the previous post. Modern Central Asian Turks are also very different which is a fact we already know. But what the hell it has something to do with the topic? Aren't you the one who claims that the Anatolian category doesn't have Central Asian in 23andme(or something else) even though it is referencing from modern Turkish people, the Central Asian admixture among Turks is negligible? This is where you are wrong. And the proof(the average you posted) does not prove anything.

[Dunai]

Read my statement again. What conspiracy? I'm talking about the general working procedure of these companies which not necessarily bothers Turkish ethnogenesis, but since Turkish ethnogenesis has a cosmopolitan structure, it also being bothered by the situation just like other communities which are under the same situation. 23andme has the category Anatolian because it aims to measure your recent ancestry, there is no problem, but when one comes up with the idea that modern Turks 100% Anatolian(by referencing admixture results) then here the misunderstanding of all these stuff begins. And I'm repeating, this does not necessarily apply to Turks, but also applies to many other communities as well.

Besides, the topic is not exactly about Vahaduo references, which I already explained in my previous post but you seem to ignore certain parts of it. I haven't claimed they are representative as opposite I believe they are highly representative, and in fact, I supplied them to the Vahaduo(Anatolian Turks taken by TurkishDNA). The thing which is useless is the Turkish average you created because of the reasons stated in the previous post. Modern Central Asian Turks are also very different which is a fact we already know. But what the hell it has something to do with the topic? Aren't you the one who claims that the Anatolian category doesn't have Central Asian in 23andme(or something else) even though it is referencing from modern Turkish people, the Central Asian admixture among Turks is negligible? This is where you are wrong. And the proof(the average you posted) does not prove anything.

The only averages that I ever proposed for Lukasz to be added are the Hungarian ones. I simply used the data found in the source of the calculator for Modern Turkish. If you believe it is a false one you should suggest to be deleted and replaced with a better one. Modern Turkish people as you are well aware from history, are largely the assimilated people of Medieval Anatolia, which were mostly Greeks, Armenians, Kurds. The original genetic influence of the Seljuk Turks isn't very significant anymore, only around 10 to 15% maybe.

[Zoro]

You are making it look like there is a wide conspiracy against Modern Turkish people by genetic testing companies. I simply see no evidence for them trying to misrepresent the true modern genetic makeup of Turkish people, since all these companies work based on scientific facts. 23andMe even has a category (Anatolian) that completely matches the largest part of Modern Turkish people, who live in Anatolia and adjacent areas. The reference of average Turkish result I took from Vahaduo K13, whoever uploaded it probably took into consideration the various diversity of Modern Turkish people, so don't need to blame me for using a population average that was on that site for a very long time. If you don't agree with that average being representative than you can anytime do a better one and upload it yourself. The matter of fact remains is that Modern Turkish people are most similar to their current neighbors, while Modern Central Asian Turks are already very different, with strong East Asian admixture, very rare in Modern Turkish people in significant proportions.


If you read what Kaspias wrote slowly you may understand what he means a little better. What we mean is that 23andme and other commercial companies are useless for measuring Turkic, Central Asian, East Asian amounts in West Asian and Europeans because that’s not what they try to do. If anything they go the extra step to zero out that type of admixture by using SNP windows and smoothing among other things which basically discards any older admixture even as recently as 500 years ago.

Not to mention the fact that all they try to tell you if you are 100% Turkish or Iranian reference

[Kyp]

8% Central Asian on MH turned out as 7.50-8% East Asian on Gedmatch for my father.

[Zoro]

Modern Turkish people as you are well aware from history, are largely the assimilated people of Medieval Anatolia, which were mostly Greeks, Armenians, Kurds. The original genetic influence of the Seljuk Turks isn't very significant anymore, only around 10 to 15% maybe.


I want to point out a couple of big flaws with this:

1-Modern Turks by enlarge are not assimilated Kurds. First, Kurds are not ancient Anatolians. Their original homeland is Iran and Central Asia that’s why they are genetically so similar to Iranians such as Persians and Azeris. Ofcourse there are plenty of intermarriages between Turks and Kurds but Kurds themselves arrived from Iran into Anatolia mostly with the Seljuks and Ottomans sort of like Turks. Secondly intermarriage between Turk and Kurd would not reduce overall Central Asian admixture in the children vs Turk parent (Aryan+Turkic)

2- Turks should have on average much more than 10-15% Seljuk

[Zoro]

I sometimes watch MyHeritage videos on YouTube. Most Turkish people score at least some amount of Central Asian. If posted, I also look their GEDmatch results and their GEDmatch shows their East Eurasian (Siberian + East Asian + Amerindian) score is about 85-90% of their Central Asian score on MyHeritage. For example, if someone scored 10% Central Asian, they usually get 8.5-9% East Eurasian in total on GEDmatch.

Although modern-day Central Asians are about 50% East Eurasian in total, Central Asian on MyHeritage is about 85-90% East Eurasian when GEDmatch analysis is done. What is the reason behind that?

MyHeritage Central Asian in West Asians or Europeans is measured more recently than GEDmatch. While in some cases such as this Kurd with 10% MyHeritage Central Asian there maybe 1:1 correlation, in others W. Asians can score 5% E. Asian on GEDmatch and 0 Central Asian on MyHeritage.

Overall though MyHeritage and other commercial companies Central Asian is useless for W. Asians and Europeans


https://youtu.be/_PrXEj-Wk0g

[Kaspias]

The only averages that I ever proposed for Lukasz to be added are the Hungarian ones. I simply used the data found in the source of the calculator for Modern Turkish. If you believe it is a false one you should suggest to be deleted and replaced with a better one.

Why are you keep saying this?


Modern Turkish people as you are well aware from history, are largely the assimilated people of Medieval Anatolia, which were Greeks, Armenians, Kurds. The original genetic influence of the Seljuk Turks isn't very significant anymore, only around 10 to 15% maybe.

When considering the difference between Hungarians and Dutch or let's say Montenegrin is 10%, it is a pretty desperate sentence to claim that 10% is negligible. However, based on what you said those Seljuk Turks must be 100% Eastern Eurasian, because 10%(and around) is the East Eurasian average of ethnic Turks. Do you think were Seljuks 100% Eastern Eurasian? For your information, Eastern Eurasian scores of medieval Turkic samples range from 40% to 55%. By taking it as a reference let's assume that the actual unmixed Turkic admixture average is 25% in modern Turkish groups which is consisted of Anatolian and Balkan. This amount is more than enough to create a glitch in admixture breakdowns.

If the company uses a stable average for their components:

Imagine an Anatolian Turkish who have 15% Eastern Eurasian. He will get a result like 80% Anatolian, 10% Greek, and 10% Central Asian. Because he has an additional Central Asian score, and it also should provide additional Mediterranean ancestry to balance Central Asia. Does he actually have 10% Greek? No. Does he actually have 10% Central Asian? No. Does he actually have 80% Anatolian? No.

Imagine a Balkan Turkish who have 10% Eastern Eurasian. He will get a result like 70% Anatolian and 30% Balkan(Serbo-Croat, while he is actually not, but such high Anatolian admixture must be balanced with a more Northern population.) Does he actually have 70% Anatolian? No. Does he actually have 30% Balkan? No.

If the company uses individuals as a reference:

Total madness here. An Anatolian Turkish could be modeled as if he is 75% West Asian and 25% Central Asian because the "Turkish" under West Asian could be a Pontic Greek, for example. This would be a correct model, though. In the condition of it applies to every individual. However, another one could be modeled with a Yoruk used as a reference, and get a result straightforward 100% West Asian. Then imagine both individuals come out as having a similar amount of Eastern Eurasian in the Gedmatch. Total crap.

This is how Central Asian admixture hiding under Turks affects the results, and how fixed algorithms of companies make results worthless. The same procedure stated here will be applying to any nation that is residing to many ethnicities who are different from each other. An average post created in the autosomal DNA section of TA is more scientific than the methods companies use, except for IBD despite they are not able to apply it in an appropriate way.

[Deniz]

The only averages that I ever proposed for Lukasz to be added are the Hungarian ones. I simply used the data found in the source of the calculator for Modern Turkish. If you believe it is a false one you should suggest to be deleted and replaced with a better one. Modern Turkish people as you are well aware from history,]are largely the assimilated people of Medieval Anatolia, which were mostly Greeks, Armenians, Kurds. The original genetic influence of the Seljuk Turks isn't very significant anymore, only around 10 to 15% maybe.
Most of them yes they are.But As you re the one of apricity member who doesnt know history and genetics etc.But ıt doesnt include Kaspias.I always read your bs comments here and laughing.First you need the draw demographic composition of the country then you need to know migration movements and their timeline.Probably 1/4 Kurdish population of Turkey migrated last 30 40 years period from Iraq and Syria Because of wars.Every Kurdish and Turkish tribes already had relatives from Iraq and Syria at the border cities of Turkey.Also This includes Arabs of Turkey from that region.This is the first.Also search about Selim the Grim’s politics and demographic policies for Eastern Regions at that time.

Lets talk about Armenians.We know which cities had Armenian population and what hapenned to them and why?!Northerneastern region still have native Armenian speaker muslims (11th Century settlements).Some Eastern and Southeastern natives have Armenian origin Kurdish and Turkish speakers or they have Armenian grandmothers.My neighbour is fully Armenian from eastern region and they did kin marriages for that reason.

Now lets talk about Anatolia and some genetics because those regions I mentioned historically not an Anatolia.Or we should add Pontic Greeks first?Northerneastern genetic averages are already show that regions have no Turkic settlements or limited and erased completely.

Most of Anatolian Greeks created the native part of Anatolian Turks except the Central east regions such as Sivas,Central Kayseri etc.Southern regions such as Adana has Arabic admixture too but when we look at the genetic results of the Turks at the city this is limited.

Lets do population analysis on Ethnic Turks of Turkey.Take a look at map of Turkey and draw a line from Giresun to Edirne then draw a line again from Edirne to Aydın,Muğla we keep going to Antalya,Mersin,Adana on Southwestern and Southern regions and include the all of the Central parts of the country.Bravo You will find the %75 or 80 ethnic Turkish population of Turkey.If you include the Balkan Turks Its much more.So those vahaduo averages are wrong averages my semi illiterate friend.

Last I was born near the “Dunai” river and already getting your ass shaking Seljuk average and most of Turks from that region getting more.Not like you My so called “Hungarian” friend.

[mentalanesthesia]

The only averages that I ever proposed for Lukasz to be added are the Hungarian ones. I simply used the data found in the source of the calculator for Modern Turkish. If you believe it is a false one you should suggest to be deleted and replaced with a better one. Modern Turkish people as you are well aware from history, are largely the assimilated people of Medieval Anatolia, which were mostly Greeks, Armenians, Kurds. The original genetic influence of the Seljuk Turks isn't very significant anymore, only around 10 to 15% maybe.

108603 Just gonna leave this here. It's always the same NPC lines: Turks are Assimilated Greeks, Armenians, Kurds, Martians etc.

[Dunai]

Most of them yes they are.But As you re the one of apricity member who doesnt know history and genetics etc.But ıt doesnt include Kaspias.I always read your bs comments here and laughing.First you need the draw demographic composition of the country then you need to know migration movements and their timeline.Probably 1/4 Kurdish population of Turkey migrated last 30 40 years period from Iraq and Syria Because of wars.Every Kurdish and Turkish tribes already had relatives from Iraq and Syria at the border cities of Turkey.Also This includes Arabs of Turkey from that region.This is the first.Also search about Selim the Grim’s politics and demographic policies for Eastern Regions at that time.

Lets talk about Armenians.We know which cities had Armenian population and what hapenned to them and why?!Northerneastern region still have native Armenian speaker muslims (11th Century settlements).Some Eastern and Southeastern natives have Armenian origin Kurdish and Turkish speakers or they have Armenian grandmothers.My neighbour is fully Armenian from eastern region and they did kin marriages for that reason.

Now lets talk about Anatolia and some genetics because those regions I mentioned historically not an Anatolia.Or we should add Pontic Greeks first?Northerneastern genetic averages are already show that regions have no Turkic settlements or limited and erased completely.

Most of Anatolian Greeks created the native part of Anatolian Turks except the Central east regions such as Sivas,Central Kayseri etc.Southern regions such as Adana has Arabic admixture too but when we look at the genetic results of the Turks at the city this is limited.

Lets do population analysis on Ethnic Turks of Turkey.Take a look at map of Turkey and draw a line from Giresun to Edirne then draw a line again from Edirne to Aydın,Muğla we keep going to Antalya,Mersin,Adana on Southwestern and Southern regions and include the all of the Central parts of the country.Bravo You will find the %75 or 80 ethnic Turkish population of Turkey.If you include the Balkan Turks Its much more.So those vahaduo averages are wrong averages my semi illiterate friend.

Last I was born near the “Dunai” river and already getting your ass shaking Seljuk average and most of Turks from that region getting more.Not like you My so called “Hungarian” friend.

No need to get so condescending while you haven't provided any refutation that Vahaduo averages about Turkish people are false. These averages clearly show a strong connection to West Asian people and much little with Central Asian people. Greeks and Armenians are much more closer genetically to Turkish people than Uzbeks and Kazakhs. I don't care about turbo Nationalist history propaganda, I just stated the historical consensus about Medieval Anatolia before Seljuk Turks settled there. Seljuk Turks didn't arrive in an empty land, but assimilated the native population from which Modern Turkish people largely descend from. These are absolute facts.

[David24]

Why would 23andMe make such a massive error in basing their Anatolian descriptor on Central Asian people, do you have any real proof for this?

A Turkmenistani 23andme result—47.8% Anatolian:
https://i.redd.it/l0m2fbyq56k41.jpg

[Leto]

A Turkmenistani 23andme result—47.8% Anatolian:
[IMG]https://i.redd.it/l0m2fbyq56k41.jpg
I saw her on Reddit a year ago. She is an adoptee. Do you have her Gedmatch?

[Leto]

No need to get so condescending while you haven't provided any refutation that Vahaduo averages about Turkish people are false.
The Vahaduo averages are not false, why are you questioning them?

[David24]

I saw her on Reddit a year ago. She is an adoptee. Do you have her Gedmatch?

Unfortunately, no I don't have it. According to this study, Turks are around 50% Central Asian, which is exactly the same amount she scores Anatolian. What a coincidence?
https://i.imgur.com/7sbHWcn.png

[Deniz]

:coffee:
Most of them yes they are.But As you re the one of apricity member who doesnt know history and genetics etc.But ıt doesnt include Kaspias.I always read your bs comments here and laughing.First you need the draw demographic composition of the country then you need to know migration movements and their timeline.Probably 1/4 Kurdish population of Turkey migrated last 30 40 years period from Iraq and Syria Because of wars.Every Kurdish and Turkish tribes already had relatives from Iraq and Syria at the border cities of Turkey.Also This includes Arabs of Turkey from that region.This is the first.Also search about Selim the Grim’s politics and demographic policies for Eastern Regions at that time.

Lets talk about Armenians.We know which cities had Armenian population and what hapenned to them and why?!Northerneastern region still have native Armenian speaker muslims (11th Century settlements).Some Eastern and Southeastern natives have Armenian origin Kurdish and Turkish speakers or they have Armenian grandmothers.My neighbour is fully Armenian from eastern region and they did kin marriages for that reason.

Now lets talk about Anatolia and some genetics because those regions I mentioned historically not an Anatolia.Or we should add Pontic Greeks first?Northerneastern genetic averages are already show that regions have no Turkic settlements or limited and erased completely.

Most of Anatolian Greeks created the native part of Anatolian Turks except the Central east regions such as Sivas,Central Kayseri etc.Southern regions such as Adana has Arabic admixture too but when we look at the genetic results of the Turks at the city this is limited.

Lets do population analysis on Ethnic Turks of Turkey.Take a look at map of Turkey and draw a line from Giresun to Edirne then draw a line again from Edirne to Aydın,Muğla we keep going to Antalya,Mersin,Adana on Southwestern and Southern regions and include the all of the Central parts of the country.Bravo You will find the %75 or 80 ethnic Turkish population of Turkey.If you include the Balkan Turks Its much more.So those vahaduo averages are wrong averages my semi illiterate friend.

Last I was born near the “Dunai” river and already getting your ass shaking Seljuk average and most of Turks from that region getting more.Not like you My so called “Hungarian” friend.

You have reading comprehension problems so No time more for nothing.I will leave you with your Turbopreconception and mega ıq level.:rolleyes::(:)

[Kaspias]

No need to get so condescending while you haven't provided any refutation that Vahaduo averages about Turkish people are false. These averages clearly show a strong connection to West Asian people and much little with Central Asian people. Greeks and Armenians are much more closer genetically to Turkish people than Uzbeks and Kazakhs. I don't care about turbo Nationalist history propaganda, I just stated the historical consensus about Medieval Anatolia before Seljuk Turks settled there. Seljuk Turks didn't arrive in an empty land, but assimilated the native population from which Modern Turkish people largely descend from. These are absolute facts.

Absolute facts which no one denied. No one claimed Vahaduo averages are false, I'm literally the man who supplied them(referencing again, Anatolian Turks are from the TurkishDNA Project). I have claimed creating a Turkey average -which you do- is useless while trying to prove that Turks are West Asians. Because while doing it you ignore the population numbers, and also ignore Balkan Turks completely. In addition, you are ignoring the genetic distances within groups. Native ancestor of Western Turks are Islander Greek-like, for example, are they in the same category as Eastern Turks? That's the point.

Further than that, no one also denied the fact that Turks have got native admixture, and in each of my posts, I have stated that Irano-Turkic ancestry may cover 45-50% of Anatolian Turks while pure Turkic ancestry is around 25-35%. However, you have claimed Turks have got 10% admixture from Seljuks, and that's negligible when it comes to the companies providing admixture breakdowns, which can be translated into: "Turks are indeed Anatolian as much as these companies provide." However, this was far from truth.

There is no turbo nationalist propaganda, there is either your prejudice or your reading comprehension problems. I kindly ask you to read all these posts from the beginning and try to understand the point, because I believe I was clear as much as one can be. But you are still trying to twist.

[Dunai]

Absolute facts which no one denied. No one claimed Vahaduo averages are false, I'm literally the man who supplied them(referencing again, Anatolian Turks are from the TurkishDNA Project). I have claimed creating a Turkey average -which you do- is useless while trying to prove that Turks are West Asians. Because while doing it you ignore the population numbers, and also ignore Balkan Turks completely. In addition, you are ignoring the genetic distances within groups. Native ancestor of Western Turks are Islander Greek-like, for example, are they in the same category as Eastern Turks? That's the point.

Further than that, no one also denied the fact that Turks have got native admixture, and in each of my posts, I have stated that Irano-Turkic ancestry may cover 45-50% of Anatolian Turks while pure Turkic ancestry is around 25-35%. However, you have claimed Turks have got 10% admixture from Seljuks, and that's negligible when it comes to the companies providing admixture breakdowns, which can be translated into: "Turks are indeed Anatolian as much as these companies provide." However, this was far from truth.

There is no turbo nationalist propaganda, there is either your prejudice or your reading comprehension problems. I kindly ask you to read all these posts from the beginning and try to understand the point, because I believe I was clear as much as one can be. But you are still trying to twist.

I already agreed with all of your points that there is plenty of diversity within Modern Turkish people however my point was all along that even if we take one national Turkish average but also any regional Turkish average the genetic distance to Central Asian people will remain pretty distant while the similarity to their neighbors pretty high. Of course Turkish people aren't as similar to their neighbors as most populations to their own neighbors (given what numerous populations have contributed genetically to Modern Turkish people), however they still fit well within the East Mediterranean/West Asian genetic cluster.

[Zanzibar]

Yes, they are in datasheet:


Khamnegan,0.043822,-0.3781832,0.0817976,-0.0270028,-0.0679202,-0.0412479,0.0171794,0.0239992,0.0093263,0.0107701,-0.0153456,-0.0018735,-0.0033002,-0.0005091,-0.0004613,-0.0018562,-0.0021904,0.0011907,0.0123939,0.0138941,-0.0079859,-0.0129464,-0.0118318,-0.0006387,0.0046822

Oh ok. The most Mongoloid Mongol samples seems to be the ethnic Mongols in China aka the Mongola and the Daur (they are not necessarily Mongol but are a Mongolic ethnic group) who score close to 100% Mongoloid:

Mongola,0.031112,-0.4234757,0.0311753,-0.055556,0.0135407,0.0023243,0.00799,0.007077,-0.005454,0.0049813,-0.0609497,-0.0038967,0.0081763,-0.005138,-0.0047047,-0.002431,-0.000913,0.001605,0.002472,0.000792,0.003286,-0.0030503,0.0032047,0.0015263,-0.0011973

Daur,0.0330087,-0.4258457,0.0497797,-0.0489883,-0.0171313,-0.0165477,0.013474,0.017153,0.0010907,0.009841,-0.0474717,-0.0007493,0.0032707,0.004771,-0.002081,-0.0043753,-0.0055197,0.0024493,0.0043157,0.0031267,0.0006653,-0.0119533,-0.0052173,-0.0012047,0.0006783

Very ironic how the term Mongoloid is used to describe the East Asiatic race when Mongols themselves are not even pure East Eurasians lol.

[Dunai]

This is a comparison of various Modern Turkish people and Modern Central Asian Turkic (unfortunately they are getting very large distances) people using Davidski's Ancient G25 method:

Target: Turkish_Istanbul
Distance: 1.5200% / 0.01520039
32.6 Armenia_EBA
29.4 Barcin_N
21.8 Yamnaya_Samara
5.4 Han
4.6 Natufian
3.4 Ganj_Dareh_N
2.6 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3
0.2 WHG

Target: Turkish_East
Distance: 1.1592% / 0.01159246
58.4 Armenia_EBA
15.8 Barcin_N
8.2 Yamnaya_Samara
7.4 Ganj_Dareh_N
5.4 Natufian
2.6 Han
0.6 Levant_N
0.6 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3
0.6 Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
0.4 Clovis

Target: Turkish_North
Distance: 2.6497% / 0.02649707
46.6 Armenia_EBA
20.4 Barcin_N
13.6 Yamnaya_Samara
9.4 Han
3.4 Levant_N
2.4 Natufian
1.8 Ganj_Dareh_N
1.2 Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
0.8 Clovis
0.4 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3

Target: Turkish_South
Distance: 2.6070% / 0.02607042
41.4 Armenia_EBA
16.6 Barcin_N
14.2 Yamnaya_Samara
9.6 Han
9.6 Levant_N
5.2 Ganj_Dareh_N
2.4 Natufian
0.8 Clovis
0.2 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3

Target: Uzbek
Distance: 5.0399% / 0.05039946
30.2 Han
27.0 Yamnaya_Samara
11.6 Levant_N
10.6 Armenia_EBA
9.4 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3
5.0 Ganj_Dareh_N
3.8 Barcin_N
2.4 Clovis

Target: Turkmen
Distance: 4.8861% / 0.04886101
22.6 Armenia_EBA
22.6 Yamnaya_Samara
21.0 Han
13.6 Levant_N
7.0 Barcin_N
7.0 Ganj_Dareh_N
3.8 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3
2.4 Clovis

Target: Kirghiz
Distance: 11.1041% / 0.11104081
54.2 Han
21.0 Yamnaya_Samara
13.4 Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
6.2 Clovis
4.8 Levant_N
0.4 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3

Target: Uygur
Distance: 5.4924% / 0.05492354
38.8 Han
23.4 Yamnaya_Samara
11.4 Levant_N
10.2 Armenia_EBA
8.6 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3
3.4 Ganj_Dareh_N
3.0 Clovis
1.2 Barcin_N

Target: Kazakh
Distance: 10.0286% / 0.10028576
47.4 Han
25.4 Yamnaya_Samara
14.4 Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
7.6 Levant_N
5.0 Clovis
0.2 Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3

[Leto]

A Turkmenistani 23andme result—47.8% Anatolian:
https://i.redd.it/l0m2fbyq56k41.jpg
She is not Turkmenistani, was adopted from Saratov, Russia. These are some of her GED results:

Gedrosia 16.53 Pct
Siberian 8.31 Pct
Northwest_African -
Southeast_Asian 3.68 Pct
Atlantic_Med 5.9 Pct
North_European 21.35 Pct
South_Asian 0.23 Pct
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 4.62 Pct
East_Asian 8.92 Pct
Caucasus 30.46 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: Karina
8.89048930 Nogai
12.31621289 Turkmen_Iran
13.90394548 Kabardin
13.94386603 Kumyk
13.98331863 Turk_Northwest
14.56106796 Crimean_Tatar_Mountain
14.75063049 Turkmen_TM
15.31146629 Turk_Southwest
15.51396468 Abazin
15.93880799 Balkar

Target: Karina
Distance: 1.3650% / 1.36495002 | ADC: 0.25x RC
38.9 Nogai
28.1 Dargin_Kaitag
15.1 Crimean_Tatar_Steppe
11.0 Turkmen_Iran
3.6 Kuwait2
3.3 Dai


North_Atlantic 10.21 Pct
Baltic 14.62 Pct
West_Med 1.13 Pct
West_Asian 36.31 Pct
East_Med 9.86 Pct
Red_Sea 4.06 Pct
South_Asian 2.17 Pct
East_Asian 8.47 Pct
Siberian 11.43 Pct
Amerindian 1.74 Pct
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -

Distance to: Karina
9.13288563 Nogay
13.09015279 Tajik_Mountain
15.20702798 Kabardin
15.32095950 Tajik_Lowland
15.82214271 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
15.97594129 Yaghnobi_Tajikistan
16.08722785 Kumyk
16.48398617 Balkar
16.74034050 Chechen
17.07131219 Turkmen

Target: Karina
Distance: 2.0315% / 2.03147430 | ADC: 0.25x RC
63.8 Lak
22.1 Kazakh
9.4 Saudi
4.7 Japanese