Native Balkan DNA in Croats is mostly maternal, paternal is very minimal?

[vidovic]

South and East Croatia are about 80% slavic I2A+R1A through their paternal lineage while native balkan autosomal DNA in both of our groups accounts for more than there is actual non-slavic paternal haplogroups.

I was also wondering did that influence our phenotypes, since I think that father's genes affect their kids more. Then again, south Croats are REALLY dark, so I don't know what it really is.

[Jana]

Napiši nešto na hrvatskom, za početak.

[Jana]

Eastern Croatia is nowhere close to 80% Slavic in ydna, as well. That's a figure for dinaric Croats (Dalmatia and Herzegovina), due to founder and bottleneck effects.

https://i.imgur.com/qPuMzWY.gif

[Varda]

Vidović je naš čojek koji troluje Rvate. :thumb001:

[vidovic]

Eastern Croatia is nowhere close to 80% Slavic in ydna, as well. That's a figure for dinaric Croats (Dalmatia and Herzegovina), due to founder and bottleneck effects.

https://i.imgur.com/qPuMzWY.gif

how many participants were there in east croatia, probably less than in the south hence the difference?

[vidovic]

Eastern Croatia is nowhere close to 80% Slavic in ydna, as well. That's a figure for dinaric Croats (Dalmatia and Herzegovina), due to founder and bottleneck effects.

https://i.imgur.com/qPuMzWY.gif

i don't think the difference in east and south croatian haplos are that different, both of our ancestors were the same Slavic male warriors who settled and defeated the native population, and mixed in with the native balkan women.

[Varda]

Vidović je naš čojek koji troluje Rvate. :thumb001:

A možda je i Rvat iz ustaško-vlaško-mesarskih krajeva, dinarske Rvatine su češće nordisti od drugih.

Zbir od K13 mu ispade 103, fejk rezultat. xD

[Ion Basescul]

New user appears out of the blue and is a pro on haplogroups and autosomal. Many such cases :D

[Jana]

how many participants were there in east croatia, probably less than in the south hence the difference?

First confirm that you speak Croatian, thanks. Since your first post was fake gedmatch result.

[Jana]

A možda je i Rvat iz ustaško-vlaško-mesarskih krajeva, dinarske Rvatine su češće nordisti od drugih.

Zbir od K13 mu ispade 103, fejk rezultat. xD

Says the Serb ashamed of his swarthy folks.

[vidovic]

Vidović je naš čojek koji troluje Rvate. :thumb001:

Nisam poturica prljava, ne brini nemam tursku haplogrupu i prljavu crnu kosu

[Jana]

xD

[vidovic]

New user appears out of the blue and is a pro on haplogroups and autosomal. Many such cases :D

Did I say a lie? The men who our ancestors crushed either killed or sent to your lands, while enslaving your women and genociding their haplogroup dna. many such cases in history books.

[Varda]

Says the Serb ashamed of his swarthy folks.

It's your impression, and it's wrong.

[vidovic]

Eastern Croatia is nowhere close to 80% Slavic in ydna, as well. That's a figure for dinaric Croats (Dalmatia and Herzegovina), due to founder and bottleneck effects.

https://i.imgur.com/qPuMzWY.gif

I just looked at this and only e1b1b and some branches of that r1b are native balkan, so yeah you proved my point, even more than 80% of my region's haplogroup DNA comes from Slavic-Germanic men, while like 35-40 percent complete DNA makeup is native balkan which is mostly all maternal

[Varda]

Nisam poturica prljava, ne brini nemam tursku haplogrupu i prljavu crnu kosu

Aha, ti si onaj hrvat22 sa foruma.hr. Bosanska poturica koja je ranije promovisala bošnjašku mitomaniju po raznim forumima, a zadnjih par glumiš velikog Hrvata. Šta radi raja u Kaknju? :)

[Jana]

I just looked at this and only e1b1b and some branches of that r1b are native balkan, so yeah you proved my point, even more than 80% of my region's haplogroup DNA comes from Slavic-Germanic men, while like 35-40 percent complete DNA makeup is native balkan which is mostly all maternal

Well yes, native Balkan/Roman input seems mostly maternal, which is no suprise. I just wonder why are your gedmatch values 103 instead of 100, and what's your agenda.

[Ion Basescul]

Did I say a lie? The men who our ancestors crushed either killed or sent to your lands, while enslaving your women and genociding their haplogroup dna. many such cases in history books.

Your ancestors never stepped on these lands. Only Serbs had and got assimilated.

[Jana]

Your ancestors never stepped on these lands. Only Serbs had and got assimilated.

They actually did, indirectly. Rusyns you assimilated in northern Romania and Moldova are white Croat descendants with notable Vlach substratum.

[vidovic]

Your ancestors never stepped on these lands.

that's not what I said, read the sentence again

[Ion Basescul]

They actually did, indirectly. Rusyns you assimilated in northern Romania and Moldova are white Croat descendants with notable Vlach substratum.

Those are just Ukrainians, with a Romanian substratum in some. Modern people from Ivano-Frankivsk, Chernivtsi and Zakarpattya look quite distinct from Croats.
If you grab someone with a Rusyn surname from a Ukrainian village in Moldova, who still didn't get genetically assimilated, you will just see regular Ukrainian results, not Croat. I have a couple.

[Voskos]

51 guests browsing thread. New Croat record.

[Jana]

Those are just Ukrainians, with a Romanian substratum in some. Modern people from Ivano-Frankivsk, Chernivtsi and Zakarpattya look quite distinct from Croats.
If you grab someone with a Rusyn surname from a Ukrainian village in Moldova, who still didn't get genetically assimilated, you will just see regular Ukrainian results, not Croat. I have a couple.

I'm speaking about their ethnogenesis, and they are not Ukrainians, just recently Ukrainised.
Also, White Croats were certainly not like modern Croats genetically. Plus, many of more Slavic shifted modern Croats are close to Rusyns genetically (with ydna matching)

With my myheritage data I am close to them myself.

Now some facts:


.The ancestors were the early Slavs whose movement to the Danubian Basin was influenced by the Huns and Pannonian Avars between the 5th and 6th centuries, the White Croats who lived on both slopes of the Carpathians and built many hill-forts in the region including Uzhhorod ruled by the mythical ruler Laborec, the Rusyns of Galicia and Podolia, and Vlachian shepherds of Transylvania. As the region of the Ukrainian Carpathians, including Zakarpattia and Prykarpattia, has since the Early Middle Ages been inhabited by the tribes of Croats,[Note 4] in Ukrainian encyclopedias and dictionaries, and the Great Russian Encyclopedia, the Rusyns are generally considered to be the descendants of the White Croats

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyns


The Lemkos (and other Carpatho-Rusyns) are considered to be descendants of the medieval White Croats,[9][10][11][12][13][14][15] affected by the migration of Ruthenian-influenced Slovaks[15] and the Vlach/Romanian migrations in the 14th and 15th centuries.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos


Boykos are considered as one of the descendants of East Slavic tribes, specifically White Croats who lived in the region,[8][9][17] possibly also Ulichs who arrived from the East,[18] and partly Vlach shepherds who later immigrated from Transylvania.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boykos


It is generally considered to be descendants of the White Croats, a Slavic tribe that inhabited the area,[14][13][22]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutsuls

[Ion Basescul]

I'm speaking about their ethnogenesis, and they are not Ukrainians, just recently Ukrainised.
Also, White Croats were certainly not like modern Croats genetically. Plus, many of more Slavic shifted modern Croats are close to Rusyns genetically (with ydna matching)

With my myheritage data I am close to them myself.

Now some facts:



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rusyns



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boykos



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutsuls

As someone with two recent Rusyn surnames among great-grandparents (G(H)utsul and Lavric), I can assure you that there isn't anything recently Ukrainianised about them. All their traditions and culture is Orthodox and overlapping heavily with Romanian, including the pagan ones. But in the past, who knows. I personally don't believe in this theory.

[vidovic]

They actually did, indirectly. Rusyns you assimilated in northern Romania and Moldova are white Croat descendants with notable Vlach substratum.

i was talking about balkanoid men who lived in present day croatia before the slavic invasion tho. these men were by slavs either killed or sent to present romania while their women were enslaved and kept as trophy wives

[Jana]

As someone with two recent Rusyn surnames among great-grandparents (Gutsul and Lavric), I can assure you that there isn't anything recently Ukrainianised about them. All their traditions and culture is Orthodox and overlapping heavily with Romanian, including the pagan ones. But in the past, who knows. I personally don't believe in this theory.

You don't need to assure me, as I met several Rusyns in real life who couldn't be more offended than to be called Ukrainian. many of whom are Greek-Catholic.
They are their own ethnic group, but a stateless one that is on a way to dissapear, not only in Ukraine, but also in Slovakia and other countries.

Don't really care what your believe or not, as it's not a theory.

[Jana]

i was talking about balkanoid men who lived in present day croatia before the slavic invasion tho. these men were by slavs either killed or sent to present romania while their women were enslaved and kept as trophy wives

No, most of Illyrian men were killed in Roman wars and by Justinian plague. There is no archeological evidence of any mass genocide Slavs/Croats committed upon settlement, but quite a bit of intermingling and cultural overlapping.

[Ion Basescul]

You don't need to assure me, as I met several Rusyns in real life who couldn't be more offended than to be called Ukrainian. many of whom are Greek-Catholic.
They are their own ethnic group, but a stateless one that is on a way to dissapear, not only in Ukraine, but also in Slovakia and other countries.

Don't really care what your believe or not, as it's not a theory.

Probably larping for Western gibs, because any Russian-speaking person would tell you that the highest Ukrainian ethno-nationalism peaks in that area. This is very visible when I go with friends to Odessa and have a nice time going by with just Russian, whereas in Chernivtsi we are forced to stick to English because people give you the stinky eye or outright ask you not to use Russian if they hear you speak it.
Ask any Ukrainian user from here, if you don't believe me.

[Dušan]

As someone with two recent Rusyn surnames among great-grandparents (G(H)utsul and Lavric), I can assure you that there isn't anything recently Ukrainianised about them. All their traditions and culture is Orthodox and overlapping heavily with Romanian, including the pagan ones. But in the past, who knows. I personally don't believe in this theory.

My parents told me that after Chernobyl disaster, some Ukrainian children were evacuated to ex Yugoslavia, including small town in todays Croatia, with mixed Serb and Croat population where we had lived.

Only Serb families accepted and made accomodation for these children, Croatian families refused to help.

[Jana]

Probably larping for Western gibs, because any Russian-speaking person would tell you that the highest Ukrainian ethno-nationalism peaks in that area. This is very visible when I go with friends to Odessa and have a nice time going by with just Russian, whereas in Chernivtsi we are forced to stick to English because people give you the stinky eye or outright ask you not to use Russian if they hear you speak it.
Ask any Ukrainian user from here, if you don't believe me.

Ukrainian nationalism peaks in Lviv, as far as I know, and western Ukraine in general. But that doesn't erase the fact Carpatho-Rusyns were ethnic group long before Ukraine existed. No, these people I met don't care about west. They just keep their identity which is Rusyn.

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

Wait. How widespread are Slavic maternal clades in the Balkans? I don’t think slavs had a male only migration. What actually happened is that these Slavic tribes outnumbered the locals. And overtime interbreeding and successful clans spread the most. Kinda weird that it was I2 that spread and not the more Common Slavic R1a.

[Jana]

Double

[Jana]

My parents told me that after Chernobyl disaster, some Ukrainian children were evacuated to ex Yugoslavia, including small town in todays Croatia, with mixed Serb and Croat population where we had lived.

Only Serb families accepted and made accomodation for these children, Croatian families refused to help.

Nice fantasy story, as Ukrainians and Croats get along great while Serbs are very disliked by Ukrainian nationalists since Serb volunteers fought for Russians in Donbass.

[vidovic]

Wait. How widespread are Slavic maternal clades in the Balkans? I don’t think slavs had a male only migration. What actually happened is that these Slavic tribes outnumbered the locals. And overtime interbreeding and successful clans spread the most. Kinda weird that it was I2 that spread and not the more Common Slavic R1a.

i really don't have an idea, that's why im asking. it'd be pretty cool to be an ancestor of exclusively male slavs and female illyrians

[Jana]

Wait. How widespread are Slavic maternal clades in the Balkans? I don’t think slavs had a male only migration. What actually happened is that these Slavic tribes outnumbered the locals. And overtime interbreeding and successful clans spread the most. Kinda weird that it was I2 that spread and not the more Common Slavic R1a.

Slavic maternal linages exist too, but not as much as male Slavic ydna. There is a lot of Mediterranan and Balkan mtdna in Croatia, at least accoring to study I read.

[Peterski]

New user appears out of the blue and is a pro on haplogroups and autosomal. Many such cases :D

Could be someone from another forum.

[vidovic]

Could be someone from another forum.

I'm mostly discussing genetics on 4chan where you don't even need to create an account. This site was always complicated so i only recently made the account

[vidovic]

Could be someone from another forum.

I'm mostly discussing genetics on 4chan where you don't even need to create an account. This site was always complicated so i only recently made the account

[rothaer]

Probably larping for Western gibs, because any Russian-speaking person would tell you that the highest Ukrainian ethno-nationalism peaks in that area. This is very visible when I go with friends to Odessa and have a nice time going by with just Russian, whereas in Chernivtsi we are forced to stick to English because people give you the stinky eye or outright ask you not to use Russian if they hear you speak it.
Ask any Ukrainian user from here, if you don't believe me.

Would be interesting to know how today people in Carpatho-Ukraine, which is abt. the Center of Rusyns, do postion themselves to Ukraine ethno-nationalism. However, after Chernivtsi is not located there, it's irrelevant for this question.

[Dick]

Wait. How widespread are Slavic maternal clades in the Balkans? I don’t think slavs had a male only migration. What actually happened is that these Slavic tribes outnumbered the locals. And overtime interbreeding and successful clans spread the most. Kinda weird that it was I2 that spread and not the more Common Slavic R1a.


Slavic maternal linages exist too, but not as much as male Slavic ydna. There is a lot of Mediterranan and Balkan mtdna in Croatia, at least accoring to study I read.

The Hungarian match is ancient sample but dosn't state which one, maybe it's the Avar Szolad sample which would make her my gr gr gr etc grandma. Also proves their tmrca is not accurate.


https://i.imgur.com/xzBDH1D.jpg

[Dunai]

Rusyns are mostly the continuation of White Croats after they migrated into the Balkans. During the centuries they mixed with Romanians, Ukrainians, Slovaks and Hungarians. I know some very proud Hungarian-Rusyn individuals who always tell me how much they have in common with Croats. This connection between Rusyns and Croats is well known among them.