Daos E-V13 Subclade Yfull

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

My E-V13 subclade is E-S7461. Which according to this chart is northwest European. So my E-V13 isn’t even Balkan. Wtf lol. I’ll have the full results in a couple of days. Anyone familiar with this subclade thanks.108959


https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-S7461/

[Hulu]

My E-V13 subclade is E-S7461. Which according to this chart is northwest European. So my E-V13 isn’t even Balkan. Wtf lol. I’ll have the full results in a couple of days. Anyone familiar with this subclade thanks.108959

Yfull below

It has a handful of English but is all over the place, including one Albanian

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-S7461/

[Hulu]

Try this too

https://phylogeographer.com/mygrations/

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

Where did you get NW European? Yfull below

The earliest sample is Russian, it has a handful of English but is all over the place, including one Albanian

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-S7461/

That chart I linked said its a Northwest European subclade, but it is from 2017 so its quite outdated. Just noticed that. However, the most common country is England. They haven't given me my subclade yet but I can see my sample is with the Greek and Romanian samples. What's the most common Albanian subclade?

[Hulu]

That chart I linked said its a Northwest European subclade, but it is from 2017 so its quite outdated. Just noticed that. However, the most common country is England. They haven't given me my subclade yet but I can see my sample is with the Greek and Romanian samples. What's the most common Albanian subclade?

I dont know. I hope Skerdilaid sees this and answers your question. He manages the Albanian project.

I edited my post because I saw where it said NW Euro. So just wait for your subclade on yfull.

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

I dont know. I hope Skerdilaid sees this and answers your question. He manages the Albanian project.

I edited my post because I saw where it said NW Euro. So just wait for your subclade on yfull.

Yeah its E-Y150909. The only other matches within that subclade are Romanian and Greek. And an Italian thats within his own subclade of E-Y150909.

Wait there is also 2 English samples and one Azerbajani.

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

Glinoe scy197, who was probably a Daco-Getae assimilated by the Scythians was ancestral to my clade, he was E-FGC44169

My clade is also the one that is most often found in places like Tatarstan, it was most likely brought there by Scythians.

So me claiming Scythian all this time actually has some merit behind it lmao

https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-FGC44169/

[vbnetkhio]

Yeah its E-Y150909. The only other matches within that subclade are Romanian and Greek. And an Italian thats within his own subclade of E-Y150909.

Wait there is also 2 English samples and one Azerbajani.

Looks like Romanized Dacians.

[Jana]

"East Slavic with a dash of Balkan"

Aren't you 1/4 Polish as well?

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

Looks like Romanized Dacians.

It seems like a clade that spread westward with proto-celts, East with proto-Iranians(found in decent amounts in Kurdistan), south with proto-Mycenaean and some remained in the carpathian region/east Balkan region where it was probably picked up from. The current tree doesn't show that it is today widely spread in the Moldova, Romania, or Balkan region as other clades dominate there. Most common place is England. So we’ll see how many more samples pop up in the future.

That Italian sample is from Cagliari. A heavily Greek region in the past. So it seems the more southern samples would be of Greek origin.

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

"East Slavic with a dash of Balkan"



Aren't you 1/4 Polish as well?

Yeah but my Polish side is literally from the border with Ukraine. So East Slavic just makes sense overall.

[vbnetkhio]

It seems like a clade that spread westward with proto-celts, East with proto-Iranians(found in decent amounts in Kurdistan), south with proto-Mycenaean and some remained in the carpathian region/east Balkan region where it was probably picked up from. The current tree doesn't show that it is today widely spread in the Moldova, Romania, or Balkan region as other clades dominate there. Most common place is England. So we’ll see how many more samples pop up in the future.

it's too young for proto-Iranians and Mycenaeans. It probably came to the Caucasus during Roman times, and to Greece maybe even later, with the Aromanians.
proto-Celts possible, but it's more likely Romans brought it to England like some other e-v13 subclades.

yeah, maybe this is actually one of the most common Romanian/Moldovan subclades, but we can't know until more people test.

btw. check the live version, you will be placed in your own subclade equally distant from everybody else. And the Romanian and 2 Greeks will form a subclade together.

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

it's too young for proto-Iranians and Mycenaeans. It probably came to the Caucasus during Roman times, and to Greece maybe even later, with the Aromanians.
proto-Celts possible, but it's more likely Romans brought it to England like some other e-v13 subclades.

yeah, maybe this is actually one of the most common Romanian/Moldovan subclades, but we can't know until more people test.

btw. check the live version, you will be placed in your own subclade equally distant from everybody else. And the Romanian and 2 Greeks will form a subclade together.

Is 4200 ybp equivalent to 4200 BCE?

[vbnetkhio]

Is 4200 ybp equivalent to 4200 BCE?

no, ybp - years before present.

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

no, ybp - years before present.

That would make the age of this haplogroup around 2,200 BCE. That's in line with Sintashta which existed 2400–1800 BCE. So it really isn't too young for proto-Iranians. I am just trying to understand the existence of this haplo in Kurds in significant amounts, and even Ossetians, Tajiks, Tatars. Basically everywhere Iranians had a presence.

Also what is the dominant Vlach clade? Do Vlach even carry decent amounts of E-S7461?

[vbnetkhio]

That would make the age of this haplogroup around 2,200 BCE. That's in line with Sintashta which existed 2400–1800 BCE. So it really isn't too young for proto-Iranians. I am just trying to understand the existence of this haplo in Kurds in significant amounts, and even Ossetians, Tajiks, Tatars. Basically everywhere Iranians had a presence.

I was talking just about E-Y150909.

Yeah, E-S7461 has that presence in western Asia. It could hardly be from Sintashta though, if that was the case than it would be all over India and the -stan countries. And it's actually all over Europe, but in West Asia too.

Maybe Scythians got it from Dacians, and then spread it to Tatarstan and Caucasus/Middle East. It's distribution in the middle east matches the Scythian invasions well.

https://radiolemberg.com/media/k2/items/cache/086985afc4763c73294bbbaaa8046da1_XL.jpg



Also what is the dominant Vlach clade? Do Vlach even carry decent amounts of E-S7461?

nobody knows, Aromanians don't have a DNA project, there is only one Aromanian in the Albanian project, he is E-V13>CTS9320>Z16988>Z27131>BY62310. Probably many of those with a Romanian or Greek flag are actually Aromanian, but we can't know.

here's what Nevgen predictor predicts for Aromanian haplotypes from the Y-DNA study on them, plus that one from the Albanian project.
The prediction isn't 100% reliable.

E1b1b V13>>Z5018> BY1671501443.75
E1b1b V13>>Z5018> A2192928.125
E1b1b V13>>Z501739.375
E1b1b V13>>Z5018> S2979> FGC1145739.375
E1b1b V13>>z5017>> Z1985113.125
E1b1b V13>>Z5017>> Z1726413.125
E-V13>CTS9320>Z16988>Z27131>BY6231013.125

[Voskos]

Yeah its E-Y150909. The only other matches within that subclade are Romanian and Greek.

Well I guess you're Vlach then.

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

Well I guess you're Vlach then.

According to live I think I’m actually forming a separate subclade on my own away from those guys lol but it will be for sure when the full results arrive in a couple of days.

Also the Greeks are from Arcadia if I’m not mistaken it’s not a place that was ever occupied by Vlach. I would call myself Vlach if I got Z5018

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

I was talking just about E-Y150909.

Yeah, E-S7461 has that presence in western Asia. It could hardly be from Sintashta though, if that was the case than it would be all over India and the -stan countries. And it's actually all over Europe, but in West Asia too.

Maybe Scythians got it from Dacians, and then spread it to Tatarstan and Caucasus/Middle East. It's distribution in the middle east matches the Scythian invasions well.

https://radiolemberg.com/media/k2/items/cache/086985afc4763c73294bbbaaa8046da1_XL.jpg



nobody knows, Aromanians don't have a DNA project, there is only one Aromanian in the Albanian project, he is E-V13>CTS9320>Z16988>Z27131>BY62310. Probably many of those with a Romanian or Greek flag are actually Aromanian, but we can't know.

here's what Nevgen predictor predicts for Aromanian haplotypes from the Y-DNA study on them, plus that one from the Albanian project.
The prediction isn't 100% reliable.

E1b1b V13>>Z5018> BY1671501443.75
E1b1b V13>>Z5018> A2192928.125
E1b1b V13>>Z501739.375
E1b1b V13>>Z5018> S2979> FGC1145739.375
E1b1b V13>>z5017>> Z1985113.125
E1b1b V13>>Z5017>> Z1726413.125
E-V13>CTS9320>Z16988>Z27131>BY6231013.125

We need to start a charity, YFull testing for Vlach foundation

[Ion Basescul]

Well I guess you're Vlach then.

More like Dacian imo. I think that Vlachs are tied more to variations of J2 and R1b.

<google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<tbody>
Haplogroup
Vlach Albania
Vlach Macedonia
Constanta (Vlachs)
Vlach Avg


R1b
14%
25%
33%
24%


R1a
2%
18%
2%
10%


I2
26%
19%
19%
21%


J2
34%
17%
38%
26%


E1b1b
17%
19%
7%
16%


J1
0%
0%
0%
0%


G2a
7%
3%
0%
3%


I1
0%
0%
0%
0%


N1c
0%
0%
0%
0%


T
0%
0%
0%
0%


G1
0%
0%
0%
0%


Q1
0%
0%
0%
0%


E (other)
0%
0%
0%
0%


Other
0%
0%
0%
0%


Total
58
108
42
208

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin>

<google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<tbody>
Haplogroup
Oltenia
Muntenia
Dobrogea
Wallachia
Transylvania
Moldavia
Republic of Moldova


R1b
15%
15%
18%
15%
19.5%
13%
10.5%


R1a
20%
12%
8%
15%
19%
18%
30%


I2
26%
23%
38%
25%
25.5%
32%
29%


J2
13%
19%
8%
16%
13%
14%
5%


E1b1b
15.5%
16%
8%
16%
12%
10%
14%


J1
1%
2%
0%
1%
1%
1%
2%


G2a
2%
6%
13%
5%
2%
3%
1%


I1
5.5%
4%
0%
4%
3%
6%
3.5%


N1c
0.5%
1%
5%
1%
2%
2%
3%


T
0.5%
1%
0%
1%
2%
0%
2%


G1
0%
0%
0%
0%
0%
0%
0%


Q1
0%
0.5%
0%
1%
1%
0%
0%


E (other)
1%
0%
2%
1%
0%
0%
0%


Other
0%
0.5%
0%
0%
0%
1%
0%


Total
234
293
39
566
340
191
229

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin>

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

More like Dacian imo. I think that Vlachs are tied more to variations of J2 and R1b.

<google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<tbody>
Haplogroup
Vlach Albania
Vlach Macedonia
Constanta (Vlachs)
Vlach Avg


R1b
14%
25%
33%
24%


R1a
2%
18%
2%
10%


I2
26%
19%
19%
21%


J2
34%
17%
38%
26%


E1b1b
17%
19%
7%
16%


J1
0%
0%
0%
0%


G2a
7%
3%
0%
3%


I1
0%
0%
0%
0%


N1c
0%
0%
0%
0%


T
0%
0%
0%
0%


G1
0%
0%
0%
0%


Q1
0%
0%
0%
0%


E (other)
0%
0%
0%
0%


Other
0%
0%
0%
0%


Total
58
108
42
208

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin>

<google-sheets-html-origin style="color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: medium;">
<tbody>
Haplogroup
Oltenia
Muntenia
Dobrogea
Wallachia
Transylvania
Moldavia
Republic of Moldova


R1b
15%
15%
18%
15%
19.5%
13%
10.5%


R1a
20%
12%
8%
15%
19%
18%
30%


I2
26%
23%
38%
25%
25.5%
32%
29%


J2
13%
19%
8%
16%
13%
14%
5%


E1b1b
15.5%
16%
8%
16%
12%
10%
14%


J1
1%
2%
0%
1%
1%
1%
2%


G2a
2%
6%
13%
5%
2%
3%
1%


I1
5.5%
4%
0%
4%
3%
6%
3.5%


N1c
0.5%
1%
5%
1%
2%
2%
3%


T
0.5%
1%
0%
1%
2%
0%
2%


G1
0%
0%
0%
0%
0%
0%
0%


Q1
0%
0.5%
0%
1%
1%
0%
0%


E (other)
1%
0%
2%
1%
0%
0%
0%


Other
0%
0.5%
0%
0%
0%
1%
0%


Total
234
293
39
566
340
191
229

</tbody>
</google-sheets-html-origin>

Daco-Scythian* lol

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

"There are two predominant E-V13 subclades in the Balkans:
E-V13->Z1057->CTS1273->BY3880->Z5017
E-V13->Z1057->CTS1273->BY3880->Z5018
The same is valid for the whole Eastern Europe in general. On the other hand Western Europe has a single predominant subclade and it is E-V13->Z1057->CTS1273->BY3880->Z5018. Though IMO the diversity in Western Europe is not low.

When it comes to the Balkans a few more subclades are present there. But if we take into account number of clades under BY3880 which haven't been found in the Balkans (so far), I think we can't say that the diversity is high."


Just putting this info for me to reference later lol.

[Caballero]

E-V13 is not older than Middle Bronze Age in and around Transylvania/Carpathian mountains.

So, you are not far away from the truth when you mentioned the Middle to Late Bronze Age connection of your subclade with the Southern Balkan ones. Probably some Ancient Greeks carried that, after all people in and around Danube Valley heavily migrated and burned down Mycenae during Late Bronze Age.

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

E-V13 is not older than Middle Bronze Age in and around Transylvania/Carpathian mountains.

So, you are not far away from the truth when you mentioned the Middle to Late Bronze Age connection of your subclade with the Southern Balkan ones. Probably some Ancient Greeks carried that, after all people in and around Danube Valley heavily migrated and burned down Mycenae during Late Bronze Age.

Without knowing what culture carried E-V13 and where it spread from its hard to understand any connection. There was a recent find from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michelsberg_culture from Neolithic Germany that was heavily E1b and I2, (for some reason no G) Regarding my clade the most probable scenario is that indo-Europeans assimilated this clade somewhere in the Carpathian or Ukrainian steppe area and spread it east, south and west.

This idea that E-V13 is of Balkan origin isn’t sustained by the evidence. We don’t see E-V13 pop up in the Balkans after the Cardium Pottery sample, which is debatable where it came from because the earliest sample is in Spain so it could have been brought East.

[Roy]

I am E-V13 too! How can I find my own subclade?

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

I am E-V13 too! How can I find my own subclade?

Yfull, Big-Y 700, but I would get nebula genomics full genome testing. They already offer Yfull and soon they will offer Big Y-700. So you basically get full genome plus those things

[MandM]

Yfull, Big-Y 700, but I would get nebula genomics full genome testing. They already offer Yfull and soon they will offer Big Y-700. So you basically get full genome plus those things

they are very expensive 1199 dollors at least the ultra

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

they are very expensive 1199 dollors at least the ultra

The 30x full genome on nebula is $300 right now. It comes with YFULL which is available now, and Big-Y 700 which will be available sometime this year.

https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/

https://imgur.com/a/aeWqA9u


If I understand everything correctly and nothing is misrepresented by them then this is the most economical way to get everything. I wish I did this before. Wasted so much money on other tests.

[Smitty]

The 30x full genome on nebula is $300 right now. It comes with YFULL which is available now, and Big-Y 700 which will be available sometime this year.

https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/

https://imgur.com/a/aeWqA9u


If I understand everything correctly and nothing is misrepresented by them then this is the most economical way to get everything. I wish I did this before. Wasted so much money on other tests.

It looks like you have to get a subscription to maintain access to your reports. You can continue to access your raw data without the subscription, though.

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

It looks like you have to get a subscription to maintain access to your reports. You can continue to access your raw data without the subscription, though.

Yeah that’s true but I got the lifetime subscription for like 300 bucks off or something. They update their library about every week.

[Smitty]

Yeah that’s true but I got the lifetime subscription for like 300 bucks off or something. They update their library about every week.

Ah, that's a deal.

[Adamm]

they are very expensive 1199 dollors at least the ultra

I did DanteLabs 30x and it costed me 150 euros, you can wait until black Friday and most likely DanteLabs will do again a sale. Waiting for the results is the hardest part though, I waited around 4 months to get my results back from DanteLabs. Nebula is also a very good and relatively cheap option.

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

I did DanteLabs 30x and it costed me 150 euros, you can wait until black Friday and most likely DanteLabs will do again a sale. Waiting for the results is the hardest part though, I waited around 4 months to get my results back from DanteLabs. Nebula is also a very good and relatively cheap option.

Will Dantelabs provide Big-700 too?

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

I did DanteLabs 30x and it costed me 150 euros, you can wait until black Friday and most likely DanteLabs will do again a sale. Waiting for the results is the hardest part though, I waited around 4 months to get my results back from DanteLabs. Nebula is also a very good and relatively cheap option.

Will Dantelabs provide Big-700 too?

[Adamm]

Will Dantelabs provide Big-700 too?

No they will not, but imo Big-Y isnt that important (its useful because it gives you accses to the FTDNA matching system). Getting my RAW DNA converted and and compatible for YFULL was my main purpose for going for DanteLabs. I would say I handled everything for a relatively cheap price, also people who are important to me in terms of subclade testing are mostly testing through YFULL and not FTDNA, especially now since Nebula and DanteLabs became a payable service for normal people to test deeper for their subclade. Not eevryone is going to put 600 - 1000 euros aside for BigY.

[MandM]

The 30x full genome on nebula is $300 right now. It comes with YFULL which is available now, and Big-Y 700 which will be available sometime this year.

https://nebula.org/whole-genome-sequencing-dna-test/

https://imgur.com/a/aeWqA9u


If I understand everything correctly and nothing is misrepresented by them then this is the most economical way to get everything. I wish I did this before. Wasted so much money on other tests.

Ahh oki then, but I all ready have done my y700 on ftdna, but it is good for those who havent

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

No they will not, but imo Big-Y isnt that important (its useful because it gives you accses to the FTDNA matching system). Getting my RAW DNA converted and and compatible for YFULL was my main purpose for going for DanteLabs. I would say I handled everything for a relatively cheap price, also people who are important to me in terms of subclade testing are mostly testing through YFULL and not FTDNA, especially now since Nebula and DanteLabs became a payable service for normal people to test deeper for their subclade. Not eevryone is going to put 600 - 1000 euros aside for BigY.


Makes sense, its just nice to also have big Y for a fraction of what people paid for it lol. I been messing around with my raw data and converted it to 23 and me v3 and v5. I already had my 23 and me v5 chip from 23 and me directly but my converted 23 and me v5 differs a little bit in results when I use gedmatch calcs. Am I doing something wrong or are the results supposed to be different?

I used a program called wgsextract

[Adamm]

Makes sense, its just nice to also have big Y for a fraction of what people paid for it lol. I been messing around with my raw data and converted it to 23 and me v3 and v5. I already had my 23 and me v5 chip from 23 and me directly but my converted 23 and me v5 differs a little bit in results when I use gedmatch calcs. Am I doing something wrong or are the results supposed to be different?

I used a program called wgsextract

Yes they are supposed to be different indeed, so that's normal. The differences in results arent that huge imo, but still interesting to see. I asked once which version I should use and Davidski told me to use 23andMe V3 (if I'm not mistaken) in order for him to extract G25 coordinates.

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

Got the full results back. Seems like they put me in the same clade as the Italian? My clade is more basal than the two Greeks and Romanian. They formed their own subclade. The Azerbaijani is from the sister clade of mine. Weird af. I was thinking I was going to be in the same clade as the Romanian