Anatolian Greek GEDMatch test

[Kross]

She's a full Anatolian Greek from Manisa, Turkey. Her ancestors immigrated to Greece because of the population exchange between Turkey and Greece.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Manisa_in_Turkey.svg/1920px-Manisa_in_Turkey.svg.png


Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 29.19
2 West_Med 22.41
3 West_Asian 16.35
4 Baltic 13.49
5 North_Atlantic 11.91
6 Red_Sea 3.83
7 Siberian 1.24
8 Oceanian 0.6
9 Amerindian 0.53
10 Sub-Saharan 0.45

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Central_Greek 5.52
2 East_Sicilian 6.85
3 South_Italian 8.51
4 Greek_Thessaly 8.74
5 Ashkenazi 9.29
6 Italian_Abruzzo 10.38
7 West_Sicilian 10.9
8 Algerian_Jewish 13.19
9 Sephardic_Jewish 14.13
10 Italian_Jewish 14.15
11 Tuscan 15.67
12 Bulgarian 15.99
13 Cyprian 16.03
14 Tunisian_Jewish 17
15 Libyan_Jewish 17.53
16 Romanian 18.65
17 Turkish 18.83
18 Lebanese_Muslim 19.62
19 Syrian 20.79
20 North_Italian 21.02

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.1% Bulgarian + 49.9% Cyprian @ 4.07
2 67% Greek_Thessaly + 33% Cyprian @ 4.33
3 64.1% Cyprian + 35.9% Moldavian @ 4.51
4 54.1% Cyprian + 45.9% Romanian @ 4.58
5 66.8% Cyprian + 33.2% Croatian @ 4.77
6 76.9% Greek_Thessaly + 23.1% Assyrian @ 5.04
7 95.8% Central_Greek + 4.2% Mari @ 5.1
8 59.7% Cyprian + 40.3% Serbian @ 5.11
9 95.6% Central_Greek + 4.4% Chuvash @ 5.12
10 96.2% Central_Greek + 3.8% MA-1 @ 5.13
11 97.2% Central_Greek + 2.8% Selkup @ 5.14
12 71.5% Cyprian + 28.5% Ukrainian @ 5.14
13 77.9% Greek_Thessaly + 22.1% Georgian_Jewish @ 5.17
14 94.3% Central_Greek + 5.7% Kabardin @ 5.18
15 97.3% Central_Greek + 2.7% Ket @ 5.19
16 94.3% Central_Greek + 5.7% Balkar @ 5.19
17 94.6% Central_Greek + 5.4% Adygei @ 5.21
18 77.1% Greek_Thessaly + 22.9% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.22
19 94% Central_Greek + 6% Kumyk @ 5.22
20 95% Central_Greek + 5% North_Ossetian @ 5.22

[Kross]

An intermediate between Cypriot Greeks and Bulgarians, very interesting. Her DNA fits the clines and continuum of geography very well. It also proves that modern day "Anatolian" Turks are nothing but Irano-Mongoloids, not Anatolian at all.

[lacreme]

Her results looks like typical Ionian Greek results ie a mixed Greek profile ( islander, mainlander, with or without extra native anatolian ) rather than being on a "natural" for the area DNA cline.

[Kross]

Her results looks like typical Ionian Greek results ie a mixed Greek profile ( islander, mainlander, with or without extra native anatolian ) rather than being on a "natural" for the area DNA cline.

Her results are the same as Greeks from Izmir.

[lacreme]

Her results are the same as Greeks from Izmir.

Exactly! Which is perfectly normal for the area. Just like Izmir, Manisa also attracted Greeks from all over the Greek speaking world especially after the 18th ? century.

[Faklon]

Manisa is the Durkish name for Magensia, ancient Thessalians migrated there. It also has rich Lydian/Hittite archaelogy.


Exactly! Which is perfectly normal for the area. Just like Izmir, Manisa also attracted Greeks from all over the Greek speaking world especially after the 18th ? century.

Why 18th century in particular?

[lacreme]

Wikipedia mentions that around that time ? Greeks and Jews started settling in the area, but a Greek source points to a later date... In any case, definitely after the 1600s

[Arzanene]

Thanks for providing this, i've been looking for western Anatolian greek results to compare with the turkish results from the same provinces. are they from Manisa/Magnesia or from Philadephia alasehir? also can you post Dodecad k12 results?

I took the Dodecad k12 results from Manisa from this spreadsheet and put them into Vahaduo.

https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?17798-More-than-400-Anatolian-Turkish-GEDmatch-kits

109065
109066

[Kaspias]

Thanks for providing this, i've been looking for western Anatolian greek results to compare with the turkish results from the same provinces. are they from Manisa/Magnesia or from Philadephia alasehir?

also can you post Dodecad k12 results?

You cannot exactly compare it with the Turkish results, the Greek population in the region whom Turks were mixed were should have a different profile. The whole of Western Anatolia was filled with recent colonizers from the Mainland and Islands, therefore contemporary Greek results from the region do not exactly represent the "natives" of the region.

[Faklon]

Wikipedia mentions that around that time ? Greeks and Jews started settling in the area, but a Greek source points to a later date... In any case, definitely after the 1600s

Eh, I don't like this rhetoric.

This is possible for Smyrna and Constantinople for trade, industrialization and the Chios massacre but this is an inland ancient colony. Why people would migrate there?

[lacreme]

Eh, I don't like this rhetoric.

This is possible for Smyrna and Constantinople for trade, industrialization and the Chios massacre but this is an inland ancient colony. Why people would migrate there?

The whole area was apparently depopulated in the period right before and after the Ottoman conquest. Due to its fertile lands though it was repopulated in the following centuries, it was also an important trade hub ( for caravans ? ) before the rise of the importance of Izmir.

https://www.kozanilife.gr/2019/08/20/%CE%B7-%CE%BC%CE%B1%CE%B3%CE%BD%CE%B7%CF%83%CE%AF%CE%B1-%CF%84%CE%B7%CF%82-%CE%BC%CE%B9%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%AC%CF%82-%CE%B1%CF%83%CE%AF%CE%B1%CF%82-%CE%B7-%CF%80%CF%8C%CE%BB%CE%B7-%CF%84%CE%BF%CF%85/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manisa
https://el.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%9A%CF%8C%CE%BB%CE%BD%CF%84%CE%B5%CF%81%CE%B5
https://el.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/%CE%A3%CE%B1%CE%BB%CE%B9%CF%87%CE%BB%CE%AE

[Fedora]

You cannot exactly compare it with the Turkish results, the Greek population in the region whom Turks were mixed were should have a different profile. The whole of Western Anatolia was filled with recent colonizers from the Mainland and Islands, therefore contemporary Greek results from the region do not exactly represent the "natives" of the region.
West Anatolia had been majority turkish since the 14th century, the population of Greeks started to regrew after the 16th century. The local Rums most likely were all absorbed within 500 years after the Seljuk conquest. In eastern ANatolia it was a different case, Vilayet of Sivas was majority christian according to the defters of that time.

[Dorian]

Personally ,I don't believe that Anatolian Greek samples can be representative for pre-Turkic regions ,neither are the non-Turkic approximations of Turks.On one hand ,a great part of Anatolian Greek populations must have changed/shifted more or less during the invasions due to inter-Greek/internal migrations & displacements.Other than the coast that was settled "recently" from the rest of Greece same was the case for settlements in Central&South parts while there have also been movements of Cappadocians to Pontus and the opposite making things confusing.On the other hand ,I doubt that Turks are a straight 2-way mix between Turkmens and the "old" Greeks of each region ,one would expect that they would bring admixtures as they were progressing and some of it would come from heretic populations that you could call "peripheral Byzantines" ,superficially Hellenized populations mixed with Armenians or Aramaeans (among the first to be converted since they saw Turks as liberators) that we don't know how similar they'd have been to their Orthodox counterparts . I would say that old Aegean coast admixture exists in Aegean Turks but it's less than half ,at the same time earlier movements/displacements of both Christians& Muslims from the European parts to it could have inflated their similarity to Aegean populations.
As for the fate of early Coast Greeks
https://i.postimg.cc/rsfCzmgM/Screenshot-46.jpg
https://i.postimg.cc/pTtB63pb/Screenshot-47.jpg

[Faklon]

Some migrations may have happened recently for whatever reason, from Greece to Anatolia and vice-versa. However, the notion that some Georgian-clustering Hittite lived there is silly. The region has been Hellenized/Romanized/Christianized since time immemorial.

The idea that Ottomans came from Mongolia to Smyrna with Turkish airlines is even more silly. Even before advancing to the mediterranean, they were under the umbrella of mixed-Persian Seljuks which characterizes most of their cultural traits.

[Dorian]

Some migrations may have happened recently for whatever reason, from Greece to Anatolia and vice-versa. However, the notion that some Georgian-clustering Hittite lived there is silly. The region has been Hellenized/Romanized/Christianized since time immemorial.

The idea that Ottomans came from Mongolia to Smyrna with Turkish airlines is even more silly. Even before advancing to the mediterranean, they were under the umbrella of mixed-Persian Seljuks which characterizes most of their cultural traits.

Point was that the actual common ancestry might be lower than it's thought but I agree. There's the Hellenistic period for example when settlers from the Black Sea and Aegean coast colonies and rest of Greece were sent to colonize interior so its Hellenization didn't happen by parthenogenesis , kings of Ariarathid dynasty after intermixing with Greeks brought settlers from Macedonia ,Cyclades,Crete and Laconia ,Milesians sent Cretans to the interior etc .Then you have the Roman colonizers who were among the assimilated , Levantines probably influenced Anatolia as well, Armenians would come later ,then during Abbasid Caliphate islanders were brought to the easternmost parts .You also have the Akritai close to the empire's borders many of whom were Tsakonians ,who knows what else there is.I could go on ,the thing is Anatolia is vast area ,populations from the same province could have different stories going on ,migrations happened at different periods from all directions to all ,wars could have made some populations dead-ends that to be able to actual historical sense for moderns and not creating it out of plots and models ,you'd need to some good research to track the stories of each settlement ,the movements and have DNA from these places at different periods..difficult but I guess things will get clearer with future samples.Sure thing is Hittites etc are long gone.