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Unurautare
10-21-2011, 08:19 PM
Is Romania a Balkan Country?(whatever you consider balkan)

1) Yes,it's a full Balkan country(I'm not from the Balkans);
2) Yes,it's a full Balkan country(I'm from the the Balkans);
3) Not a Balkan country,it's Geographically separated because of the Danube and the Carpathians;
4) Not a Balkan country,it has it's own culture and the people are different from the slavs;
5) Mostly a Balkan country;
6) Only in small parts a Balkan country;
7) Romania? Balkans?

HungAryan
10-21-2011, 08:23 PM
Culturally Balkans, Geographically NOT.

BanjaLuka
10-21-2011, 08:54 PM
No matter how hard you try to get out we will always pull you back in :laugh:

0kizLKALHm4

Mordid
10-21-2011, 09:04 PM
Romania is on the Balkan Peninsula, between central and southeastern Europe. The Danube River flows through it. Its neighbors are Hungary and Serbia to the west, Ukraine to the north, Bulgaria to the south.

Unurautare
10-21-2011, 09:07 PM
No matter how hard you try to get out we will always pull you back in :laugh:



The guy that composed the song said it he just named it Balkan girls for fancy and that he's from Dobrogea and knows that's the only "balkan" part of Romania(since it's south of the Danube).

PS that mong singer is not even ethnic Romanian.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Elena_Gheorghe_in_Moscow_%282009%29.jpg

HungAryan
10-21-2011, 09:09 PM
The guy that composed the song said it he just named it Balkan girls for fancy and that he's from Dobrogea and knows that's the only "balkan" part of Romania(since it's south of the Danube).

You mean Dobrudzha?

http://www.seeklogo.com/images/F/FK_Dobrudzha_Dobrich-logo-E8DECBAB2E-seeklogo.com.gif

Unurautare
10-21-2011, 09:11 PM
You mean Dobrudzha?


Yes,Dobrogea.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Balkan_topo_en.jpg

BanjaLuka
10-21-2011, 09:16 PM
The guy that composed the song said it he just named it Balkan girls for fancy and that he's from Dobrogea and knows that's the only "balkan" part of Romania(since it's south of the Danube).

PS that mong singer is not even ethnic Romanian.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/20/Elena_Gheorghe_in_Moscow_%282009%29.jpg

Ok. You are not in Balkan, culturally nor geographically at all! You are East European Country. Happy now? :thumb001:

askra
10-21-2011, 09:18 PM
no, except a little eastern portion, according to this map

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Balkan_topo_en.jpg

gold_fenix
10-21-2011, 09:18 PM
Romania is a peculiar country, some romanian claims to be latin (the real and old term) , from my point of view is a country with influences of different cultures of Europe

hajduk
10-21-2011, 09:19 PM
They are not Central european either. So the romanians got angry when someone calls them Balkanians, just like the greeks?

Sagitta Hungarica
10-21-2011, 09:21 PM
Geographically it is questionable if Romania is a Balkanic country, but their culture is fully Balkanic. Only in Transylvania Romanians inherited Central European mentality from Hungarians and Germans.

Monolith
10-21-2011, 09:32 PM
From my (limited) experience, Romanians are quite civilised. Unlike the Balkan-dwellers, that is.

Tony
10-21-2011, 09:35 PM
I think she is.
She shares a similar mentality with her neighbours, tough, rural, nationalistic, somewhat backward, been ruled for centuries by the Othmans etc and of course she stands in the Balkanic peninsula, a fragmented history of minorities (Saxons, Hungarians, Turks, Gypsies etc)they also write in Cyrillic (i.e. a non Western), what's could you ask more?

BanjaLuka
10-21-2011, 09:36 PM
From my (limited) experience, Romanians are quite civilised. Unlike the Balkan-dwellers, that is.


Yes unlike Balkanoids they don't like to spill blood...they just drink it...:laugh:

BAD BAD JOKE .....I know... I just could not resist ....:eek::rolleyes2:

http://www.draculas.info/_img/gallery/dracula_bela_lugosi_103.jpg

Monolith
10-21-2011, 09:42 PM
I think she is.
She shares a similar mentality with her neighbours, tough, rural, nationalistic, somewhat backward, been ruled for centuries by the Othmans etc and of course she stands in the Balkanic peninsula, a fragmented history of minorities (Saxons, Hungarians, Turks, Gypsies etc)they also write in Cyrillic (i.e. a non Western), what's could you ask more?
They used to write in Cyrillic, but they switched to latin a few centuries ago.

Mordid
10-21-2011, 09:45 PM
..............

Tony
10-21-2011, 09:47 PM
They used to write in Cyrillic, but they switched to latin a few centuries ago.
http://seoblog.yougomedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/oreally.jpg

BanjaLuka
10-21-2011, 09:54 PM
Damn. What kind of cows do they have in Romania? (http://xhamster.com/movies/809239/hottest_romanian_webcam_girl.html)


I just wonder, It was not clear from the video, is she from the little part of Romania that is inside Balkan or from Transilvania where Romanians inherited Central European mentality from Hungarians and Germans :rolleyes2::rolleyes:

Sagitta Hungarica
10-21-2011, 09:56 PM
Yes unlike Balkanoids they don't like to spill blood...they just drink it...:laugh:

BAD BAD JOKE .....I know... I just could not resist ....:eek::rolleyes2:

http://www.draculas.info/_img/gallery/dracula_bela_lugosi_103.jpg

The actor in the picture is Bela Lugosi, who is Hungarian, by any means not Romanian.

Unurautare
10-21-2011, 09:57 PM
The actor in the picture is Bela Lugosi, who is Hungarian, by any means not Romanian.

Thanks Captain Obvious. Btw he looks germanic tbh.

BanjaLuka
10-21-2011, 10:00 PM
The actor in the picture is Bela Lugosi, who is Hungarian, by any means not Romanian.

You could think I'm wrong, but that's no reason to stop thinking?:rolleyes:

Sagitta Hungarica
10-21-2011, 10:00 PM
Thanks Captain Obvious. Btw he looks germanic tbh.

Just you average Hungarian Joe-János. My former driving instructor looked just like him, sometimes it felt strange to have the gaze of Dracula over all my moves at the wheel :D

Caeruleus
10-21-2011, 10:12 PM
Yes unlike Balkanoids they don't like to spill blood...they just drink it...:laugh:

BAD BAD JOKE .....I know... I just could not resist ....:eek::rolleyes2:

http://www.draculas.info/_img/gallery/dracula_bela_lugosi_103.jpg

Ohhh man ... that's one hell of a wordplay :laugh: Thumbs Up !

Is Romania a balkanic country !? geographically not, culturally yes. Romanians are as touchy (fiery) as any other balkanic nation. Some romanians may not like that but that's the truth.

Unurautare
10-21-2011, 10:23 PM
Ohhh man ... that's one hell of a wordplay :laugh: Thumbs Up !

Is Romania a balkanic country !? geographically not, culturally yes. Romanians are as touchy (fiery) as any other balkanic nation. Some romanians may not like that but that's the truth.


I think it depends. "Wallachia" doesn't mind so much but people from Banat and Transylvania definitely don't consider themselves balkans,they get butthurt. :P Ones from Moldova are also different from any Balkans,it's enough to look at the architecture:

Can you find such moldavian churches in the balkans?(wooden one is just a Romanian wooden church,dunno from where,I guess Transylvania)

http://v6.cache2.c.bigcache.googleapis.com/static.panoramio.com/photos/original/9070483.jpg?redirect_counter=2

http://aventuraturistica.ro/images/poze_destinatii/destinatii/Piatra_Neamt_-_Biserica_Precista_1.jpg

http://www.inromania.info/assets/images/manastiri/arbore/manastirea-arbore.jpg

http://www.celendo.ro/UserFiles/PhotoGallery/Publicitate/Imagini-publicitare/Publicitate-Imagini-publicitare-celendo/manastiri_bucovina_romania_celendo.jpg

http://www.skytrip.ro/thumbs/a/250/2011/05/28/ce-mai-exporta-romania-jucarii-tramvaie-si-biserici-de-lemn-318.jpg

HungAryan
10-21-2011, 10:33 PM
Moldovan architecture is heavily influenced by East Slavic (Russian, Ukrainian) architecture.
Transylvanian Romanians also copied a lot from the Hungarians and Germans.
On the other hand, Wallachia is pure Baltic.

Caeruleus
10-21-2011, 10:34 PM
I wasn't talking about buildings, I was talking about people ... Though it has to be said that transilvanians are a little bit different

serbian church

http://images.travelpod.co.uk/users/balkans2009/1.1251655658.serbian-churchx-sarajevo.jpg

what about this one ?

Unurautare
10-21-2011, 10:38 PM
I wasn't talking about buildings, I was talking about people ... Though it has to be said that transilvanians are a little bit different

serbian church



Those are Byzantine style,like all balkans.



Moldovan architecture is heavily influenced by East Slavic (Russian, Ukrainian) architecture.
Transylvanian Romanians also copied a lot from the Hungarians and Germans.
On the other hand, Wallachia is pure Baltic.

Wrong buddy,the moldavian stlye is a western inspired style(hungarians have no architectural styles). Ukrainian and Russian churches,note that they look nothing like the gothic style of the moldavians(the oldest moldavian churches look like nothing the slavs have/had):

http://kiev.ukrainetrek.com/images/kiev-ukraine-church-of-st-michael-1.jpg

http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcRaUojIRFoLeYPja85tCTX3Y4RcYBjII g2lX-ejhCA6S8UxB-Bk7jiOYQ1a2Q

http://www.personal.psu.edu/ahb5015/blogs/abis_ukr_blog/ukraine%20church%201256.jpg

http://studyrussian.com/odessa/sabor.jpg

Russian church in Romania:

http://web.mit.edu/romania/www/Romania/Photogallery/Places/bucuresti-students-church.jpg

http://www.grouptravel.co.uk/images/eastern_europe/russian_church_large.jpg

Unurautare
10-21-2011, 10:54 PM
I wasn't talking about buildings, I was talking about people ... Though it has to be said that transilvanians are a little bit different

serbian church


what about this one ?

If you have been around Romania you'll notice that Transylvania,Banat and Bucovina,town or villages, have a specific Habsburg look. The villages in Moldova look quite different from those in Wallachia and Oltenia(I honestly facepalmed when I saw southern villages).

http://images.travelpod.co.uk/users/balkans2009/1.1251655658.serbian-churchx-sarajevo.jpg

This looks like something build during the Habsburg/Austro-Hungarian rule,you'll find lots of orthodox churches in Transylvania that look similar to that.

http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/27b80/7f239/

"Sf. Nicolae is the first Orthodox church built in Transylvania (in the very early 16th century)" Don't know if the info. is accurate on being the 1st but you get the idea,wherever Germans or Hungarians dominated their specific western style dominated.

http://cache.virtualtourist.com/6/296480-Sf_Nicolae_St_Nicholas_Brasov.jpg


Here is the historic center of my town(in romanian Moldova):

http://www.primariapn.ro/images/localizare/poza/poza.jpg

Caeruleus
10-21-2011, 11:02 PM
I give up :) BanjaLuka, it's your turn to advertise serbian/croat churches :)

well to be honest I haven't seen much of Wallachia but I've seen a lot of Transilvania (I lived there for 6 years) and Moldova. Transilvania does look different.

Unurautare
10-21-2011, 11:17 PM
Yes unlike Balkanoids they don't like to spill blood...they just drink it...:laugh:

BAD BAD JOKE .....I know... I just could not resist ....:eek::rolleyes2:


Besides the "revolution" in 1989(staged coup in which foreign agents quickly took over and liquidated Ceausescu) and the mineriade(but that was only a very small part of the Romanian population,namely the miners that were called and aided by politicians to get rid of the student rallies in Bucharest) Romanians aren't into protesting and street fights.

Romanians protesting against economic austerity(dancing and smiling lol):

7OABvO7oNgo

Greeks protesting:

K8yI0Xg3aa4

Serbs protesting:

8quknUs-KgY

Bulgarians protesting(although I FULLY AGREE!):

Y-9d0eB4eCQ

Himera
10-21-2011, 11:21 PM
Good question? I is rethoric for rest of the world , but I , as a balkanian I say : " They should be, but WE ruined that !" ...
:rolleyes2::rolleyes:

BeerBaron
10-21-2011, 11:32 PM
Technically the coastal region that borders the Black Sea is part of the Balkans, so, part of it is.

Caeruleus
10-21-2011, 11:52 PM
People from Moldova like to get physical :)

cK0LMZdYc0U

zfnccdGcPyA

Damiăo de Góis
10-21-2011, 11:57 PM
When i use the word "Balkan" i have ex-yugoslavians in mind. I don't know if Romania is technically in the Balkans or not, but i don't make the imediate association.

Unurautare
10-21-2011, 11:59 PM
People from Moldova like to get physical :)


FAIL!
That's not Romania! That's "Ruskies own our asses"-nia. >.< A lot of moldovans from "Rep.Moldova" have been culturally/mentally ruskified and sovietized for the past 200 years.
Most are also "old orthodox" believers,unlike romanians from Romania, and their churches are in russian or ukrainian style *this is not mentioning the slavic minority that has cultural-boyar status over the Romanians because Russian is the "communication language"(aka Slavs don't have to learn Romanian but Romanians have to learn Russian).



well to be honest I haven't seen much of Wallachia but I've seen a lot of Transilvania (I lived there for 6 years) and Moldova. Transilvania does look different.

Most towns from Wallachia and Moldova have had their historic architecture destroyed(both in communist times and now) while in Transylvania they managed to keep their medieval look a whole lot better. That being said I'd prefer to live in a southern city like Râmnicu Vâlcea than in most of Transylvania(there are only few locations I like there). The towns in Wallachia are quite OK looking - in sharp contrast to their villages which look like a disaster came and stayed.

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 12:08 AM
FAIL!
That's not Romania! That's "Ruskies own our asses"-nia. >.< A lot of moldovans from "Rep.Moldova" have been culturally/mentally ruskified and sovietized for the past 200 years.
Most are also "old orthodox" believers,unlike romanians from Romania, and their churches are in russian or ukrainian style.


_BQSTRIJx3U

Bucharest Romania :) the '90 ... it's a thing of the past now but it tells you something about romanian temper

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 12:12 AM
Bucharest Romania :) the '90

I already said about the mineriade. That's a very small fraction of the Romanian population,the miners,and they came at the invitation and with help from Iliescu that wanted to stop the student rallies and get some "muscle" over his political opponents.


Besides the "revolution" in 1989(staged coup in which foreign agents quickly took over and liquidated Ceausescu) and the mineriade(but that was only a very small part of the Romanian population,namely the miners that were called and aided by politicians to get rid of the student rallies in Bucharest) Romanians aren't into protesting and street fights.

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 12:51 AM
not necessarilly related to the topic

some churches from eastern Moldova (Rep. of Moldova)

http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/2164616.jpg

this one was built in stone
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQds9YyOeaXDrq4rd9vVVlP7hxsy3Ysr HehH0K1tpOQpWE3ru3O617QNAWG3w
http://www.moldovacrestina.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/dsc00799.jpg
http://pelerinaj.md/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/084769.jpg
http://www.moldovacrestina.info/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/dsc_0036-680x1024.jpg
http://www.crestinortodox.ro/admin/_files/newsannounce/manastirea-hancu419.jpg
http://www.travelmoldova.eu/img/monastries/hancu/manastirea_hancu2.jpg
http://www.informator.md/stations/destinatii-turistice/11-img

this one is not finished yet, but it will be the biggest church in Moldova
http://pelerinaj.md/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/IMG_2870.jpg

http://axiostravel.md/upload/photogallery/0207111297099414.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e9/Kiszyniow_01548.jpg
http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/25494534.jpg

BanjaLuka
10-22-2011, 06:03 AM
Besides the "revolution" in 1989(staged coup in which foreign agents quickly took over and liquidated Ceausescu) and the mineriade(but that was only a very small part of the Romanian population,namely the miners that were called and aided by politicians to get rid of the student rallies in Bucharest) Romanians aren't into protesting and street fights.

Romanians protesting against economic austerity(dancing and smiling lol):



How dare they to consider you a Balkan country!

You are Central European country with awesomely civilized people, fabulous culture & history and you are real ubermensch! You are Germany of wherever it is and whatever it is that you are located at...:thumbs up Happy now? :wink

Magister Eckhart
10-22-2011, 06:15 AM
I would sooner call Hungary a Balkan country, in all honesty. The Romanians are too geographically and culturally distinct to call them Balkan; the unique problem they have with gypsies as well as other minorities (Germans, Magyars) makes them different than any other Balkan country. And, of course, we cannot disregard the massive linguistic differences.

Ushtari
10-22-2011, 06:32 AM
Romanians je Swarthy Balkanoids

BanjaLuka
10-22-2011, 06:35 AM
When i use the word "Balkan" i have ex-yugoslavians in mind. I don't know if Romania is technically in the Balkans or not, but i don't make the imediate association.

Yes, I believe most of the world associates word Balkan with former Yugoslavia at first place and that the interpretation of term Balkanization is based on such notion although the word is related to the whole Balkans and is much older than 1990ties but was pulled out of the old academic books when the wars in former Yugoslavia started... There is similar thing with music most of people think of Goran Bregovic and former Yugoslavia when one talks about Balkan sound although he regularly "borrows" (steals:eek:) from Romanian, Bulgarian, Hungarian and Greek folk music....



Balkanization
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
For the linguistic usage of this term, see Balkan sprachbund.
Political fragmentation of the Balkans

Balkanization, or Balkanisation, is a geopolitical term, originally used to describe the process of fragmentation or division of a region or state into smaller regions or states that are often hostile or non-cooperative with each other[1], and it is considered pejorative.[2]

The term refers to the division of the Balkan peninsula, formerly ruled almost entirely by the Ottoman Empire, into a number of smaller states between 1817 and 1912.[3] The term however came into common use in the immediate aftermath of the First World War, with reference to the numerous new states that arose from the collapse of the Austro-Hungarian Empire and the Russian Empire.

The term is also used to describe other forms of disintegration, including, for instance, the subdivision of the Internet into separate enclaves,[4] the division of subfields and the creation of new fields from sociology, and the breakdown of cooperative arrangements due to the rise of independent competitive entities engaged in "beggar thy neighbour" bidding wars.

Balkanization is sometimes used to refer to the divergence over time of programming languages and data file formats (particularly XML). The term has been used in American urban planning to describe the process of creating gated communities.

There are also attempts to use the term balkanization in a positive way equating it with the need for sustenance of a group or society. Current research on the positive aspects of Balkanization is carried out by Srđan Jovanović Weiss with Centre for Research Architecture at Goldsmiths College.[5][6]

In January 2007, regarding a temporary rise in support for Scottish independence, Gordon Brown talked of a "Balkanisation of Britain".[

http://www.bbsradio.com/webbbs/images/main/pic12232.jpg

morski
10-22-2011, 08:24 AM
FAIL!
Most are also "old orthodox" believers,unlike romanians from Romania, and their churches are in russian or ukrainian style *this is not mentioning the slavic minority that has cultural-boyar status over the Romanians because Russian is the "communication language"(aka Slavs don't have to learn Romanian but Romanians have to learn Russian).

They are not old believers and slavs study Romanian or Limba noastra as they call it :)

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 08:30 AM
They are not old believers and slavs study Romanian or Limba noastra as they call it :)

They are dude,maybe not what you're thinking of,"old believers" as in they didn't have some stuff that we(and most of the Christian world) reformed. We called them "Pe vechi"(on the old).
The Slavs and the others(gagauzi) may study Romanian nowadays in schools only but in day to day they don't use it almost at all,that's why they fail so bad at the bacalaureat exam.




http://www.tvr.ro/articol.php?id=107978

Linguistic conflict in Rep.Moldova

" The Republic of Moldova confronts itself with a new form of separatism. The people from Gagauzia,an autonomous region from the east of the country, refuse to learn Romanian.
More than than,for the 1st time in 20 years the authorities in Comrat,the region's capital,sent to Chisinau all the documents written in Romanian.
Governator Mihai Formuzal,an ex-officer in the soviet army that administers Gagauzia since 2006, declared that in the future he will accept documentation only in Russian.[...] On the street on Comrat Romanian is rarely heard.
The linguistic conflict between Comrat and Chisinau intensified after almost 100 gagauz students didn't obtain their bacalaureat diploma because they received very low grades at their Romanian exam.
Gagauzia has a pop. of almost 200,000 people and benefits from a limited economic and political autonomy."

Note: In Transnistria(where the ethnic Romanians are the largest of the groups) the Romanians are oppressed when it comes to their culture and other human rights:

The official language in the separatist state where a Russian army is illegally being stationed by the Russians is of course Russian. The Moldovans are only allowed to use the cyrillic script to read and write in Romanian(if at all).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transnistria#Moldovan_schools

"Public education in the Romanian language is done using the Soviet-originated Moldovan Cyrillic alphabet. The usage of the Latin script was restricted to only 6 schools. Four of these schools were forcibly closed by the authorities, who claimed this was due to the refusal of the schools to apply for official accreditation.[116] These schools were later registered as private schools and reopened. This process may have been accelerated by pressure from the European Union.
The OSCE mission to Moldova has urged local authorities in the Transnistrian city of Rîbniţa to return a confiscated building to the Moldovan Latin script school in the city. The unfinished building was nearing completion in 2004, when Transnistria took control of it during that year's school crisis.
In November 2005 Ion Iovcev, the principal of a Romanian-language school in Transnistria and active advocate for human rights as well as a critic of the Transnistrian leadership, received threatening calls that he attributed to his criticism of the separatist regime."

morski
10-22-2011, 08:39 AM
They are dude,maybe not what you're thinking of,"old believers" as in they didn't have some stuff that we(and most of the Christian world) reformed. We called them "Pe vechi"(on the old).
The Slavs and the others(gagauzi) may study Romanian nowadays in schools only but in day to day they don't use it almost at all,that's why they fail so bad at the bacalaureat exam.

Gonna search for some links regarding this language issue,hope I find them.

Yeah they mostly deal with the language in school only. And no they are not old believers.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_believers#Modern_situation
I believe you confuse old believers with old calendarists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar#Eastern_Orthodox_usage

morski
10-22-2011, 08:40 AM
They are dude,maybe not what you're thinking of,"old believers" as in they didn't have some stuff that we(and most of the Christian world) reformed. We called them "Pe vechi"(on the old).
The Slavs and the others(gagauzi) may study Romanian nowadays in schools only but in day to day they don't use it almost at all,that's why they fail so bad at the bacalaureat exam.

Gonna search for some links regarding this language issue,hope I find them.


http://www.tvr.ro/articol.php?id=107978

Linguistic conflict in Rep.Moldova

" The Republic of Moldova confronts itself with a new form of separatism. The people from Gagauzia,an autonomous region from the east of the country, refuse to learn Romanian.
More than than,for the 1st time in 20 years the authorities in Comrat,the region's capital,sent to Chisinau all the documents written in Romanian.
Governator Mihai Formuzal,an ex-officer in the soviet army that administers Gagauzia since 2006, declared that in the future he will accept documentation only in Russian.[...] On the street on Comrat Romanian is rarely heard.
The linguistic conflict between Comrat and Chisinau intensified after almost 100 gagauz students didn't obtain their bacalaureat diploma because they received very low grades at their Romanian exam.
Gagauzia has a pop. of almost 200,000 people and benefits from a limited economic and political autonomy."

Gagauzes are not Slavs.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 08:49 AM
Gagauzes are not Slavs.

It doesn't matter,they are russified,read my entire post about them and Transnistria. Both Transnistria and Gagauzia are ran by former Soviet Russian officials. :|

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 08:50 AM
Yeah they mostly deal with the language in school only. And no they are not old believers.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_believers#Modern_situation
I believe you confuse old believers with old calendarists http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_calendar#Eastern_Orthodox_usage

The thing is these "Old calendarists" are also dependent on the Russian Patriarchy. :thumbs up :D

morski
10-22-2011, 08:50 AM
It doesn't matter,they are russified,read my entire post about them and Transnistria. Both Transnistria and Gagauzia are ran by former Soviet Russian officials. :|

Mate I live with a Moldovan girl;) I know a thing or two about Moldova.

morski
10-22-2011, 08:52 AM
The thing is these "Old calendarists" are also dependent on the Russian Patriarchy. :thumbs up :D

They are in conflict with it actually.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 08:54 AM
Besides the "revolution" in 1989(staged coup in which foreign agents quickly took over and liquidated Ceausescu) and the mineriade(but that was only a very small part of the Romanian population,namely the miners that were called and aided by politicians to get rid of the student rallies in Bucharest) Romanians aren't into protesting and street fights.

Romanians protesting against economic austerity(dancing and smiling lol):

7OABvO7oNgo

Greeks protesting:

K8yI0Xg3aa4

Serbs protesting:

8quknUs-KgY

Bulgarians protesting(although I FULLY AGREE!):

Y-9d0eB4eCQ

That's what I also noticed. Romanians are very "tamed", highly individualist people, who don't seem to have enough courage and will to unite for massive anti-government protests. However there is more potential than in most European countries, because politically-correctness is almost none-existent among Romanians, they only need a credible group of leaders to guide them. But the old nomenclature has stabilized the power too tightly that a grass-roots nationalist movement could emerge in the political spectrum. In Hungary the circumstances were similar (the strong resistance of the old nomenclature), but there existed a strong will on a grass-roots level, and also commitment from them to organize politically, and only in 5-6 years they managed to win 17% in the Hungarian Parliament (Jobbik). This is what is missing among Romanian nationalists, commitment to start it from scratch, and investing energy and own finances to organize a new party, which would also be successful, not just being somewhere on the 1-2% level. But not the least, manpower.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 08:54 AM
They are in conflict with it actually.

They may be but: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldovan_Orthodox_Church


The Moldovan Orthodox Church (canonical name: Metropolis of Chișinău and all Moldova) is an autonomous church under the Russian Orthodox Church

My guess is the ruskies wanna take their autonomous status,haven't looked into it tbh.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 08:59 AM
I would sooner call Hungary a Balkan country, in all honesty. The Romanians are too geographically and culturally distinct to call them Balkan; the unique problem they have with gypsies as well as other minorities (Germans, Magyars) makes them different than any other Balkan country. And, of course, we cannot disregard the massive linguistic differences.

Would you elaborate on that?

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 08:59 AM
That's what I also noticed. Romanians are very "tamed", highly individualist people, who don't seem to have enough courage and will to unite for massive anti-government protests.

It's not about courage it's about our lonely shepherd mentality - we have to face dangers alone to prove how manly we are. xD *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor You can see that in sports too -> we can mostly do our best as individuals,at most team sports we suck.



However there is more potential than in most European countries, because politically-correctness is almost none-existent among Romanians, they only need a credible group of leaders to guide them. But the old nomenclature has stabilized the power too tightly that a grass-roots nationalist movement could emerge in the political spectrum. In Hungary the circumstances were similar (the strong resistance of the old nomenclature), but there existed a strong will on a grass-roots level, and also commitment from them to organize politically, and only in 5-6 years they managed to win 17% in the Hungarian Parliament (Jobbik). This is what is missing among Romanian nationalists, commitment to start it from scratch, and investing energy and own finances to organize a new party, which would also be successful, not just being somewhere on the 1-2% level. But not the least, manpower.

The political correctness has begun in Romania with calling gypsies "romi" and when some gypsy commits a crime in Romania or outside Romania they(TV channels) say it's a "Romanian" or at best they don't say he/she is a gypsy.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 09:16 AM
It's not about courage it's about our lonely shepherd mentality - we have to face dangers alone to prove how manly we are. xD *http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honor You can see that in sports too -> we can mostly do our best as individuals,at most team sports we suck.




The political correctness has begun in Romania with calling gypsies "romi" and when some gypsy commits a crime in Romania or outside Romania they(TV channels) say it's a "Romanian" or at best they don't say he/she is a gypsy.

Yes, there is a trend for implementing more political correctness, but from my discussions with every day Romanians it has no effect on them. They unanimously hate Gypsies or Romanis, and don't try to find PC liberal excuses for their actions as many Hungarians shockingly do. Also Romanian media names the Gypsies if they done an illegality, and isn't constrained by PC mentality to don't point the finger on their problematic lifestyle (see the scandal of Gypsy control over the city of Temesvár-Timisoara, very correctly portrayed in major Romanian newspapers and televisions). In Hungary it is a major media tabu to name the Gypsy if they were involved in something illegal. However if their name is connected to something positive, than they almost glorify them (for example if 2 Gypsy college graduates managed to get functionary positions in a multinational firm, it is celebrated almost all over the mainstream Hungarian media).

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 09:22 AM
Yes, there is a trend for implementing more political correctness, but from my discussions with every day Romanians it has no effect on them. They unanimously hate Gypsies or Romanis, and don't try to find PC liberal excuses for their actions as many Hungarians shockingly do. Also Romanian media names the Gypsies if they done an illegality, and isn't constrained by PC mentality to don't point the finger on their problematic lifestyle (see the scandal of Gypsy control over the city of Temesvár-Timisoara, very correctly portrayed in major Romanian newspapers and televisions). In Hungary it is a major media tabu to name the Gypsy if they were involved in something illegal. However if their name is connected to something positive, than they almost glorify them (for example if 2 Gypsy college graduates managed to get functionary positions in a multinational firm, it is celebrated almost all over the mainstream Hungarian media).

Indeed,you are right,most Romanians don't care about political correctness although a lot of the TV-types(not ethnic Romanains anyway) try to emulate the bs they see in the West - they even try to call blacks "persoane de culoare" while the average Romanian would be asking himself "but they look black,why shouldn't I call them black? >:S " .
I haven't been to Hungary myself,but from what I heard Hungary is trying an all best to integrate gypos as fast as possible,at least economically. I heard the main visual difference between gypos in Bucharest and Budapest is that you can see those in Bucharest in their specific-traditional colored costumes while those in Budapest tend to dress more like "normal people".

BanjaLuka
10-22-2011, 09:29 AM
Proper Balkanoid protests against government April 2010 Sarajevo

O0-Uf_4_tOg

D1CxXFea04c

Bricks, stones, boulders against the police :rolleyes2:

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 09:39 AM
Indeed,you are right,most Romanians don't care about political correctness although a lot of the TV-types(not ethnic Romanains anyway) try to emulate the bs they see in the West - they even try to call blacks "persoane de culoare" while the average Romanian would be asking himself "but they look black,why shouldn't I call them black? >:S " .
I haven't been to Hungary myself,but from what I heard Hungary is trying an all best to integrate gypos as fast as possible,at least economically. I heard the main visual difference between gypos in Bucharest and Budapest is that you can see those in Bucharest in their specific-traditional colored costumes while those in Budapest tend to dress more like "normal people".

The Gypsies in Budapest, and in other major cities in Hungary are exception. They mostly adopted the dressing customs, and sometimes even behavioral customs of Hungarians (but only in appearance), however the majority of them live in the countryside, where they live in the same conditions as hundreds of years ago, and terrorize the Hungarian villagers, mostly old people who remained there. And the local police is too afraid (PC policies tie there hands to use force), or are too corrupted to stop Gypsy harassment.

Monolith
10-22-2011, 09:39 AM
Bricks, stones, boulders against the police :rolleyes2:

We Croats are a bit more civilised. :p ;)

OS6-YMzPWsE

BanjaLuka
10-22-2011, 09:47 AM
We Croats are a bit more civilised. :p ;)

OS6-YMzPWsE

the next morning...:p:rolleyes2:


9BhdL0LEjSg

Ushtari
10-22-2011, 09:51 AM
Proper Balkanoid protests against government April 2010 Sarajevo
Bricks, stones, boulders against the police :rolleyes2:
iurQ13cc7wA

BanjaLuka
10-22-2011, 09:58 AM
iurQ13cc7wA

thats Balkanoid type of protests multiplied by itself at least twice :eek:

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 10:00 AM
The Gypsies in Budapest, and in other major cities in Hungary are exception. They mostly adopted the dressing customs, and sometimes even behavioral customs of Hungarians (but only in appearance), however the majority of them live in the countryside, where they live in the same conditions as hundreds of years ago, and terrorize the Hungarian villagers, mostly old people who remained there. And the local police is too afraid (PC policies tie there hands to use force), or are too corrupted to stop Gypsy harassment.

I live in North-West Romanian Moldova,so from the least gypo part. During communist times the "beloved leaders"(jews&co.) tried to integrate the gypsies by offering them apartments and other incentives(this has been done post-communist area too) but the result is mostly the same. I had 2 gypsy colleagues in middle-school(class of over 30 people) and 1 gypsy in college(class of 50+ people) but 99% of gypsies I've seen beg or wander the country selling stuff in shady deals. The thing with gypsies is that they are very visible in an European society,hence you can spot them very easily -> I've also seen a lot of gypsy kids begging on the street(especially near the churches on Sunday - being sent there by their gypo parents). Interesting thing is that in the past 10-15 years I haven't seen one non-gypsy begging(I guess they mainly went to Bucharest anyway).
The mayor of my town gave gypsies some brand new apartments on the outskirts of the town but in few years they turned them into a proper 3rd world gypsy ghetto.
As you said before gypos do terrorize people,especially in Transylvania and the Banat,so much so that in the villages where gypsies are significant the hungarians and romanians formed angry mobs against them.

http://www.austriantimes.at/news/Around_the_World/2011-07-28/35221/Mercenaries_Take_On_Gypsies_


Town Hall officials in Brasov, Romania, have hired a troop of mercenaries to keep 2,000 locals and a 1,000-strong Roma community apart.

A spokesman for the guards - made up of veterans from service in Iraq and Afghanistan - said: "We patrol the streets and keep order. We keep the two halves of this community from tearing each other apart.

A council official explained: "The residents accuse the Roma of stealing and the Roma accuse them of racism. We just want to keep the peace."

This only appeared on the web site,not on TV:
http://www.tvr.ro/articol.php?id=112607&c=128

Gonna translate the commentary:
"Confiscated palaces

Threatened with beatings or even death,that's how hundreds of people from Timisoara were forced to give up their propriety in favor of the Roma(gypsies). Using this 'technique' the Roma got their hands on buildings built during the inter-war period - real architectural jewels.

Woman: -They sequestered me in my own house,they threatened me,they beat on me! From morning until dusk they gather gypsies in front of my door. I can't live anymore.
2nd woman: -We,honest people,have to abandon our own homes and leave because of them,because these bastards are constantly put on making trouble and fighting.
Man: -I'm effectively being terrorized by this ethnicity(the gypsies).

[...]"

It continues to say that almost all complaints have not been followed in by the authorities etc.

BanjaLuka
10-22-2011, 10:04 AM
There are some few people in Bosnia who want to protest in non-balkanoid way but it regularly fails :rolleyes2:

1:45 EPIC police brutality :rolleyes2:

m5nB8G3hhQs

Ushtari
10-22-2011, 10:09 AM
There are some few people in Bosnia who want to protest in non-balkanoid way but it regularly fails :rolleyes2:

1:45 EPIC police brutality :rolleyes2:
Damn that cop seemed to be angry as fuck, if it wasn't for the people around im pretty sure he would have used that gun:P

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 10:12 AM
You balkan pussies,here is EPIC ROMANIAN POLICE BRUTALITY ! (police were called because of some gypo teacher that was terrorizing her pupils/students).


EPIC ROMANIAN POLICE BRUTALITY starting from 0:30 .
CMVu-z-Zei0

BanjaLuka
10-22-2011, 10:15 AM
Damn that cop seemed to be angry as fuck, if it wasn't for the people around im pretty sure he would have used that gun:P

Just because he was spray-painted in blue :laugh: He looked in the end like one of those Scotsmen from movie Brave Heart :D

Ushtari
10-22-2011, 10:16 AM
You balkan pussies,here is EPIC ROMANIAN POLICE BRUTALITY ! (police were called because of some gypo teacher that was terrorizing her pupils/students).


EPIC ROMANIAN POLICE BRUTALITY starting from 0:30 .

Hahaha bitch think she can hit a Police officer AND a man without consequences:rolleyes:

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 10:23 AM
The thing is these "Old calendarists" are also dependent on the Russian Patriarchy. :thumbs up :D


There are two metroplises in Moldova (Metropolis of Moldova subordinated to the russian church and Metropolis of Bessarabia subordinated to the romanian church) both are old calendarist churches, so being old calendarist does not necessarilly mean that you are under russian "protection"

http://ro.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mitropolia_Basarabiei

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 10:24 AM
There are two metroplises in Moldova (Metropolis of Moldova subordinated to the russian church and Metropolis of Bessarabia subordinated to the romanian church) both are old calendarist churches, so being old calendarist does not necessarilly mean that you are under russian "protection"

Point is that most are under the Russians,or Russian influenced,as you pointed out - even the ones subordinated to the Romanian church.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 10:29 AM
I live in North-West Romanian Moldova,so from the least gypo part. During communist times the "beloved leaders"(jews&co.) tried to integrate the gypsies by offering them apartments and other incentives(this has been done post-communist area too) but the result is mostly the same. I had 2 gypsy colleagues in middle-school(class of over 30 people) and 1 gypsy in college(class of 50+ people) but 99% of gypsies I've seen beg or wander the country selling stuff in shady deals. The thing with gypsies is that they are very visible in an European society,hence you can spot them very easily -> I've also seen a lot of gypsy kids begging on the street(especially near the churches on Sunday - being sent there by their gypo parents). Interesting thing is that in the past 10-15 years I haven't seen one non-gypsy begging(I guess they mainly went to Bucharest anyway).
The mayor of my town gave gypsies some brand new apartments on the outskirts of the town but in few years they turned them into a proper 3rd world gypsy ghetto.
As you said before gypos do terrorize people,especially in Transylvania and the Banat,so much so that in the villages where gypsies are significant the hungarians and romanians formed angry mobs against them.

http://www.austriantimes.at/news/Around_the_World/2011-07-28/35221/Mercenaries_Take_On_Gypsies_



This only appeared on the web site,not on TV:
http://www.tvr.ro/articol.php?id=112607&c=128

Gonna translate the commentary:
"Confiscated palaces

Threatened with beatings or even death,that's how hundreds of people from Timisoara were forced to give up their propriety in favor of the Roma(gypsies). Using this 'technique' the Roma got their hands on buildings built during the inter-war period - real architectural jewels.

Woman: -They sequestered me in my own house,they threatened me,they beat on me! From morning until dusk they gather gypsies in front of my door. I can't live anymore.
2nd woman: -We,honest people,have to abandon our own homes and leave because of them,because these bastards are constantly put on making trouble and fighting.
Man: -I'm effectively being terrorized by this ethnicity(the gypsies).

[...]"

It continues to say that almost all complaints have not been followed in by the authorities etc.

The Gypsy issue is an almost impossible nut to crack. I still believe in a humane solution. But the change definitely should come from their side, because only God knows that we Europeans tried and tried all solutions, with no result. And this change should be clearly a radical one: meaning, they should mostly abandon their culture, since it is a huge burden for them, which stops the possibility of their integration. The way African Americans without their archaic and rather primitive African culture in parallel with the modern ages, managed to integrate in America (of course with the exceptions).

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 10:32 AM
It doesn't matter,they are russified,read my entire post about them and Transnistria. Both Transnistria and Gagauzia are ran by former Soviet Russian officials. :|

I do not consider Transnistria to be a romanian (moldovan) land, its a lost cause, Gagauzia on the other hand is a totally different thing. I had a gagauz classmate in high school he was fluent in romanian (you couldn't tell that he is not a native romanian) at home he spoke gagauz, he knew russian as well but rarely used it (only in conversations with the ruskies)

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 10:36 AM
The Gypsy issue is an almost impossible nut to crack. I still believe in a humane solution. But the change definitely should come from their side, because only God knows that we Europeans tried and tried all solutions, with no result. And this change should be clearly a radical one: meaning, they should mostly abandon their culture, since it is a huge burden for them, which stops the possibility of their integration. The way African Americans without their archaic and rather primitive African culture in parallel with the modern ages, managed to integrate in America (of course with the exceptions).

I think it's equally a racial question as it is cultural and I doubt gypos will ever integrate,even the white-washed ones,and somehow I really doubt niggers managed to integrate at an acceptable level despite being in the most "civilized country" of the world(have my doubts about it being the most but lets just say the US ,for the sake of the argument, is very civilized). If you look at the statistics,niggers are a small minority in USA but commit most of the crimes.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4f/Homicide_offending_by_race.jpg

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 10:40 AM
I do not consider Transnistria to be a romanian (moldovan) land, its a lost cause, Gagauzia on the other hand is a totally different thing. I had a gagauz classmate in high school he was fluent in romanian (you couldn't tell that he is not a native romanian) at home he spoke gagauz, he knew russian as well but rarely used it (only in conversations with the ruskies)

You don't know history,that's why you say that about Transnistria. Nowadays it's been too heavily sovietized/russified,but so has Rep.Moldova,just that it hasn't been colonized by russians and soviets as much as Transnistria has - I think Russians still offer large incentives for any Russian that wants to come and settle in Transnistria. -_-

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 10:44 AM
You don't know history,that's why you say that about Transnistria. Nowadays it's been too heavily sovietized/russified,but so has Rep.Moldova,just that it hasn't been colonized by russians and soviets as much as Transnistria has - I think Russians still offer large incentives for any Russian that wants to come and settle in Transnistria. -_-


Is that so ? :) care to teach me a little history ? why dont you tell me how Transnistria was created and why do you consider it to be romanian.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 10:52 AM
Is that so ? :) care to teach me a little history ? why dont you tell me how Transnistria was created and why do you consider it to be romanian.

I know this is not in the history manuals in schools(as a lot of other stuff isn't) but that land has been largely a Romanian dominated place in the medieval times up to the 18th-20th century,until Ruskies took over and changed it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioan_Potcoav%C4%83

Ioan Potcoavă - Prince of Moldavia AND Hetman of Ukrainian Cossacks

"Ioan IV Potcoavă was one of the so called Domnişori ("Little Princes"), named so because of a more or less based claims of belonging to Moldavian ruling families, thus exercising demands of the throne."

Stefan Batory, the Prince of Transylvania stated that:

"The lands between the Bug and Dniester are populated by a mix of races composed of Lithuanian Poles, Muscovites and Romanians. The Cossacks are raised from the Muscovites and Romanians""

In 1574, Ioan Vodă cel Cumplit named the territory "Our Country from over the Dniester". Other Moldavian Hetmans of the Cossacks were Grigore Lobodă (Hryhoriy Loboda; 1593–1596) and Dănilă Apostol (Danylo Apostol; 1727–1734).

History of Odessa:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavanka I think the wiki article is full of bs but it states however that Odessa was founded on a moldavian "colony". :coffee:

"However, adjacent to the new official locality, a certain Moldovan colony had already existed, which by the end of 18th century was an independent settlement known under the name of Moldavanka. Legend has it that the settlement predates Odessa by about thirty years and asserts that the locality was founded by Romanians "

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 11:08 AM
I know this is not in the history manuals in schools(as a lot of other stuff isn't) but that land has been largely a Romanian dominated place in the medieval times up to the 18th-20th century,until Ruskies took over and changed it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ioan_Potcoav%C4%83

Ioan Potcoavă - Prince of Moldavia AND Hetman of Ukrainian Cossacks

"Ioan IV Potcoavă was one of the so called Domnişori ("Little Princes"), named so because of a more or less based claims of belonging to Moldavian ruling families, thus exercising demands of the throne."

Stefan Batory, the Prince of Transylvania stated that:

"The lands between the Bug and Dniester are populated by a mix of races composed of Lithuanian Poles, Muscovites and Romanians. The Cossacks are raised from the Muscovites and Romanians""

In 1574, Ioan Vodă cel Cumplit named the territory "Our Country from over the Dniester". Other Moldavian Hetmans of the Cossacks were Grigore Lobodă (Hryhoriy Loboda; 1593–1596) and Dănilă Apostol (Danylo Apostol; 1727–1734).

History of Odessa:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moldavanka I think the wiki article is full of bs but it states however that Odessa was founded on a moldavian "colony". :coffee:

"However, adjacent to the new official locality, a certain Moldovan colony had already existed, which by the end of 18th century was an independent settlement known under the name of Moldavanka. Legend has it that the settlement predates Odessa by about thirty years and asserts that the locality was founded by Romanians "

Potcoava was first of all a cossack (allegedly of romanian origin) who fought for ukrainains. Anyways his reign was short lived and basically insignificant.

The population of Transnistria (the territory between Dniestr and Bug) was a mix of moldovans,ukrainains and tatars. Moldovans were not the great majority (wich I think is necessary in order to consider the region a romanian land)

as for the city of Odesa ... Moldovanka was a village founded by moldovans (a small community) who were permitted to inhabit the region by ottoman turks. The City of Odesa was build a couple of years later by russians, as the city expanded it engulfed Moldovanka wich became a part of the city. That doesn't prove that moldovans were the majority in those lands, like i said it was a small community of farmers (mainly winemakers)

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 11:17 AM
Potcoava was first of all a cossack (allegedly of romanian origin) who fought for ukrainains. Anyways his reign was short lived and basically insignificant.

The population of Transnistria (the territory between Dniestr and Bug) was a mix of moldovans,ukrainains and tatars. Moldovans were not the great majority (wich I thing is necessary in order to consider the region a romanian land)

as for the city of Odesa ... Moldovanka was a village founded by moldovans (a small community) who were permitted to inhabit the region by ottoman turks. The City of Odesa was build a couple of years later by russians, as the city expanded it engulfed Moldovanka wich became a part of the city. That doesn't prove that moldovans were the majority in those lands, like i said it was a small community of farmers (mainly winemakers)

"Ukrainian" is a loose term,translated as ~borderstani/border man,it shouldn't even be used as "ethnicity" until late 19th-20th century.

The whole population of Eastern Europe is a mix with slavs that's not the point,it was under romanian authority with Romanians living there before (new)slavs -russians. Also It doesn't really matter that by today's standards "dat village wuz small" because the industrial population boom in Europe started after the village was founded and captured by the Russians.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/MapsERL-evolution.jpg

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 11:28 AM
"Ukrainian" is a loose term,translated as ~borderstani/border man,it shouldn't even be used as "ethnicity" until late 19th-20th century.

The whole population of Eastern Europe is a mix with slavs that's not the point,it was under romanian authority with Romanians living there before (new)slavs -russians. Also It doesn't really matter that by today's standards "dat village wuz small" because the industrial population boom in Europe started after the village was founded and captured by the Russians.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/MapsERL-evolution.jpg

as you can see on the first map romanians are a minority in Transnistria. The area inhabited by romanians coincides with the modern day Romania and Moldova minus Northern Bukovina and southern Bessarabia (Budjak) wich is under ukrainian rule. Romania/Moldova has a moral/hystorical rightfull claim on Bukovina and Budjak but not on Transnistria.

Transnistria was never under romanian authority ... not in the middle ages, not in the modern era, not even in the interwar period... romanians ruled the region (de facto not de jure) for a short period of time during operation Barbarossa ... thats it

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 11:36 AM
as you can see on the first map romanians are a minority in Transnistria. The area inhabited by romanians coincides with the modern day Romania and Moldova minus Northern Bukovina and southern Bessarabia (Budjak) wich is under ukrainian rule. Romania/Moldova has a moral/hystorical rightfull claim on Bukovina and Budjak but not on Transnistria.

OK,now for foreign made maps:

Gustav Weigand 1908(* http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sprachatlas_Weigand_67.JPG):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Sprachatlas_Weigand_67.JPG


Description: Romanians living outside Romania before 1918.

Source: Greater Rumania A Study in National Ideals

Author and date: D. Mitrany, Hodder and Stoughton, London, 1917
(* http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Romanians_before_WW1.jpg )
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Romanians_before_WW1.jpg

This is the population census from 1941,both from Romanian and German sources(after about 100 years of Russian and Soviet occupation of "Basarabia" and Transnistria,just that it's the whole of Transnistria,not only the fake wannabe state, and after the deportations and colonizations) http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:RECENSAMANT_1941_JUDETE.png.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/RECENSAMANT_1941_JUDETE.png

It's said that today's Transnistria(the fake wannabe state) has the current demographic composition:

In total, in the areas controlled by the PMR government, there are 555,347 people, including 177,785 Moldovans (32.10%), 168,678 Russians (30.35%), 160,069 Ukrainians (28.81%), 13,858 Bulgarians (2.50%), 4,096 Gagauzians (0.74%), 507 Roma (0.09%), 1,259 Jews (0.23%), 1,791 Poles (0.32%), and 27,454 others (4.94%)[80]

This is the source: http://www.olvia.idknet.com/ol37-09-05.htm

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 11:51 AM
OK,now for foreign made maps:

Gustav Weigand 1908(* http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Sprachatlas_Weigand_67.JPG):
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c5/Sprachatlas_Weigand_67.JPG


Description: Romanians living outside Romania before 1918.

Source: Greater Rumania A Study in National Ideals

Author and date: D. Mitrany, Hodder and Stoughton, London, 1917
(* http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Romanians_before_WW1.jpg )
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/77/Romanians_before_WW1.jpg

This is the population census from 1941,both from Romanian and German sources(after about 100 years of Russian and Soviet occupation of "Basarabia" and Transnistria,just that it's the whole of Transnistria,not only the fake wannabe state, and after the deportations and colonizations) http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:RECENSAMANT_1941_JUDETE.png.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/43/RECENSAMANT_1941_JUDETE.png

It's said that today's Transnistria(the fake wannabe state) has the current demographic composition:


This is the source: http://www.olvia.idknet.com/ol37-09-05.htm

all these maps posted by you prove that romanians are a minority in Transnistria
the last map shows the short lived romanian rule of Transnistria (green) that is proper Transnitria (Transnitria as a whole) do you see how low the romanian percentage is in Transnistria (even in the border districts they dont make the 25% mark) ? and now look at Bessarabia :)

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 11:51 AM
"Ukrainian" is a loose term,translated as ~borderstani/border man,it shouldn't even be used as "ethnicity" until late 19th-20th century.

The whole population of Eastern Europe is a mix with slavs that's not the point,it was under romanian authority with Romanians living there before (new)slavs -russians. Also It doesn't really matter that by today's standards "dat village wuz small" because the industrial population boom in Europe started after the village was founded and captured by the Russians.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/MapsERL-evolution.jpg

However no population in the 16th century identified themselves as Romanian. Moldavians always called themselves with this name. Even today those who live in Republic of Moldova feel natural to call themselves as Moldavians, and not Romanians. The name Romania, and the identification of being Romanian appeared in the 18th century in Transylvania, created by Vlach intellectuals of Greek-Roman religion, the Transylvanian School-Scoala Ardeleana. Vlachs from Transylvania educated fellow Vlachs in Wallachia and Moldavia about the new Romanian common national identity. This is how it spread outside the Carpathians, and thus the goal of uniting all territories with large Vlach inhabitants. In that period no independent Vlach state existed, most of them living North of the Danube inside three empires: the Hapsburg, later Austrian-Hungarian Empire, the Tsarist Empire, and the Ottoman Empire. From historical linguistic perspective I find it incorrect to use the term Romanian prior the 18th century, especially when Moldavians have this identity for many more centuries before the Romanian identity that spread among them from small intellectual groups, who advocated for Romanianism.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 12:00 PM
all these maps posted by you prove that romanians are a minority in Transnistria
the last map shows the short lived romanian rule of Transnistria (green) that is proper Transnitria (Transnitria as a whole) do you see how low the romanian percentage is in Transnistria (even in the border districts they dont make the 25% mark) ? and now look at Bessarabia :)

Yeah that's my point,the Romanians in "historic Transnistria" are mentioned in historic sources(worth noting) while today even in that one street wannabe country of "Transnistria" they are 1/3 of the population. They've been colonized,how else would Russians get there in the 1st place? :rolleyes: What do you think will happen to Rep.Moldova if they experience another 100-200 years of Russian rule? Slavs have some mania when it comes to conquering and colonizing,we can even mention ukrainian madness to colonize Snake Island(Insula Serpilor) just to get more sea territory from Romania(they failed).

Current day "Rep.Moldova",75% romanians/moldovans(*that's 15% less of the total population than Romanians in Romania who make up 90% of the entire pop.),including the capital Chisinau:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Harta_etnica_a_Rep._Moldova_-_2004.jpg

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 12:00 PM
However no population in the 16th century identified themselves as Romanian. Moldavians always called themselves with this name. Even today those who live in Republic of Moldova feel natural to call themselves as Moldavians, and not Romanians. The name Romania, and the identification of being Romanian appeared in the 18th century in Transylvania, created by Vlach intellectuals of Greek-Roman religion, the Transylvanian School-Scoala Ardeleana. Vlachs from Transylvania educated fellow Vlachs in Wallachia and Moldavia about the new Romanian common national identity. This is how it spread outside the Carpathians, and thus the goal of uniting all territories with large Vlach inhabitants. In that period no independent Vlach state existed, most of them living North of the Danube inside three empires: the Hapsburg, later Austrian-Hungarian Empire, the Tsarist Empire, and the Ottoman Empire. From historical linguistic perspective I find it incorrect to use the term Romanian prior the 18th century, especially when Moldavians have this identity for many more centuries before the Romanian identity that spread among them from small intellectual groups, who advocated for Romanianism.

spare me the hungarian propaganda, PLEASE ! moldovans still call themselves moldovans even those from west Moldova wich is now part of Romania), eastern moldovans do the same thing. It's one nation regardless of the regional differences and denominations.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 12:07 PM
However no population in the 16th century identified themselves as Romanian. Moldavians always called themselves with this name. Even today those who live in Republic of Moldova feel natural to call themselves as Moldavians, and not Romanians. The name Romania, and the identification of being Romanian appeared in the 18th century in Transylvania, created by Vlach intellectuals of Greek-Roman religion, the Transylvanian School-Scoala Ardeleana. Vlachs from Transylvania educated fellow Vlachs in Wallachia and Moldavia about the new Romanian common national identity. This is how it spread outside the Carpathians, and thus the goal of uniting all territories with large Vlach inhabitants. In that period no independent Vlach state existed, most of them living North of the Danube inside three empires: the Hapsburg, later Austrian-Hungarian Empire, the Tsarist Empire, and the Ottoman Empire. From historical linguistic perspective I find it incorrect to use the term Romanian prior the 18th century, especially when Moldavians have this identity for many more centuries before the Romanian identity that spread among them from small intellectual groups, who advocated for Romanianism.


Fail. Romanians always called themselves Romanian. Show me sources of medieval authors that say Romanians called themselves "Vlahs","Moldavians" etc. You won't find any,you'll just find "they call themselves romans in their own tongue".
As for "Moldova" - a lot of indoctrinated people there,by the soviets and russians. The Russians were hoping to divide and conquer all of Romania,hence the "moldovan" ethnicity propaganda. However nowadays Moldovan politicians admitted they speak Romanian and there is no ISO code for "Moldavian",it's written and spoken exactly as Romanian.

PS have you noticed the foreign maps,made by brits and germans, mention no "moldavians" or "vlahs",just Romanians?

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 12:19 PM
Yeah that's my point,the Romanians in "historic Transnistria" are mentioned in historic sources(worth noting) while today even in that one street wannabe country of "Transnistria" they are 1/3 of the population. They've been colonized,how else would Russians get there in the 1st place? :rolleyes: What do you think will happen to Rep.Moldova if they experience another 100-200 years of Russian rule? Slavs have some mania when it comes to conquering and colonizing,we can even mention ukrainian madness to colonize Snake Island(Insula Serpilor) just to get more sea territory from Romania(they failed).

Current day "Rep.Moldova",75% romanians/moldovans(*that's 15% less of the total population than Romanians in Romania who make up 90% of the entire pop.),including the capital Chisinau:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a7/Harta_etnica_a_Rep._Moldova_-_2004.jpg

Well no sane man can think that 150 years of russian occupation will pass just like that, leaving no trace. Yes, eastern slavs have a thing for Moldova they just cant leave us alone. I dont blame the russians as much as I blame the ukrainians (khohkols) Maaaan ! those fat eating bastards would have erased us from the face of the earth, they wanted the whole Basarabia, thank God that the russkies gave them only a small part in the south and one in the north.

My point though remains the same. Romanians were always a minority in Transnsitria (or at least they did not form an important majority) you can realise this by comparing Transnistria with Bessarabia, both regions were part of the Russian/Soviet Empire but the ethnic composition is different, while Bessarabia (eastern Moldova) is romanian Transnistria is slavic (russian/ukrainaian). You can say that Transistria was heavily russified but then why the russification was so successfull in Transnistria and a lot less successfull in Bessarabia. It means that there was not that much russification to be done in the first place.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 12:26 PM
Well no sane man can think that 150 years of russian occupation will pass just like that, leaving no trace. Yes, eastern slavs have a thing for Moldova they just cant leave us alone. I dont blame the russians as much as I blame the ukrainians (khohkols) Maaaan ! those fat eating bastards would have erased us from the face of the earth, they wanted the whole Basarabia, thank God that the russkies gave them only a small part in the south and one in the north.

My point though remains the same. Romanians were always a minority in Transnsitria (or at least they did not form an important majority) you can realise this by comparing Transnistria with Bessarabia, both regions were part of the Russian/Soviet Empire but the ethnic composition is different, while Bessarabia (eastern Moldova) is romanian Transnistria is slavic (russian/ukrainaian). You can say that Transistria was heavily russified but then why the russinisation was so successfull in Transnistria and a lot less succesufull in Bessarabia. It means that there was not that much russinisation to be done in the first place.

How many slavs were in North Bucovina and the rest of Moldavia before the Habsburg and Russian Empire took them over? Almost none. North Bucovina is already overrun,while 1/4 of "Basarabia" is now officially slavic(if we add North Bucovina and Buceag/Bujak/"historic Basarabia" the slavs/russified pop. increases.
75% Romanians in what's suppose to be the "non-slav" majority area,that's a disaster -consider a lot of slavs left Rep.Moldova to work in Russia. 50 more years and they would be 50% Romanians and then less and less...

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 12:36 PM
spare me the hungarian propaganda, PLEASE ! moldovans still call themselves moldovans even those from west Moldova wich is now part of Romania), eastern moldovans do the same thing. It's one nation regardless of the regional differences and denominations.

Where did I mentioned otherwise? Of course Moldovans or Moldavians are the same (those living in Eastern Romanian and in the Republic of Moldova), only that excepting those from Eastern Romania who consider themselves primarily as Romanians, because Romanian school indoctrination, in Moldova, where there wasn't no Romanian school indoctrination, people still identify themselves correctly as Moldovans, just as their leaders did: Alexander the Good, Stephen the Great, Dimitrie Cantemir. The correct term when we speak of Moldovans in the Middle Ages is to call them just how they called themselves, Moldovans or Moldavians, and not Romanians, which is a later linguistic development.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 12:40 PM
Where did I mentioned otherwise? Of course Moldovans or Moldavians are the same (those living in Eastern Romanian and in the Republic of Moldova), only that excepting those from Eastern Romania who consider themselves primarily as Romanians, because Romanian school indoctrination, in Moldova, where there wasn't no Romanian school indoctrination, people still identify themselves correctly as Moldovans, just as their leaders did: Alexander the Good, Stephen the Great, Dimitrie Cantemir. The correct term when we speak of Moldovans in the Middle Ages is to call them just how they called themselves, Moldovans or Moldavians, and not Romanians, which is a later linguistic development.

Stop trolling,give sources like I asked. Your butthurt hungarian propaganda is annoying. Romanians from Moldavia,Transylvania and wallachia(Tara Romaneasca) called themselves Romanians. The guy who founded modern Romania,Alexandru Ioan Cuza, was a moldavian,he got elected by the people of Moldova(unoccupied part) and Tara Romaneasca to unite the (remaining) Romanian lands.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 12:41 PM
Fail. Romanians always called themselves Romanian. Show me sources of medieval authors that say Romanians called themselves "Vlahs","Moldavians" etc. You won't find any,you'll just find "they call themselves romans in their own tongue".
As for "Moldova" - a lot of indoctrinated people there,by the soviets and russians. The Russians were hoping to divide and conquer all of Romania,hence the "moldovan" ethnicity propaganda. However nowadays Moldovan politicians admitted they speak Romanian and there is no ISO code for "Moldavian",it's written and spoken exactly as Romanian.

PS have you noticed the foreign maps,made by brits and germans, mention no "moldavians" or "vlahs",just Romanians?

Well the name Wallachia or Valahia rings any bell? If they weren't Vlachs why did they called their state as Wallachia? But I can also put it otherwise: why don't you show me some documents from the Middle Ages that speak of Romanians?

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 12:46 PM
Well the name Wallachia or Valahia rings any bell? If they weren't Vlachs why did they called their state as Wallachia? But I can also put it otherwise: why don't you show me some documents from the Middle Ages that speak of Romanians?

That's how foreigners called it,we don't. You call your country Magyarowhatever,we call it Ungaria. All the Romanian lands were called "Valahias" by foreigners: "Wallachia interior"-Transylvania;"Wallachia" - Tara Romaneasca; Moldovlahia - Moldova;Cisalpine Wallachia - Banat etc.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 12:49 PM
Stop trolling,give sources like I asked. Your butthurt hungarian propaganda is annoying. Romanians from Moldavia,Transylvania and wallachia(Tara Romaneasca) called themselves Romanians. The guy who founded modern Romania,Alexandru Ioan Cuza, was a moldavian,he got elected by the people of Moldova(unoccupied part) and Tara Romaneasca to unite the (remaining) Romanian lands.

I am sorry you cannot be honest with yourself, and prefer following the line they taught you in school, rather than being curious to do some digging yourself, and find out on your own that there are other truths about Romanian history, besides the officially canonized myths. I don't say they teach you only lies, but many things are interpreted in your official history books to serve political purposes. But of course you are free to choose what you want to believe in.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 12:50 PM
I am sorry you cannot be honest with yourself, and prefer following the line they taught you in school, rather than being curious to do some digging yourself, and find out on your own that there are other truths about Romanian history, besides the officially canonized myths. I don't say they teach you only lies, but many things are interpreted in your official history books to serve political purposes. But of course you are free to choose what you want to believe in.

I'm sorry where are your sources that say Romanians used to call themselves vlahs,moldavians etc. and not Romanians? Give me the sources or give it a rest.

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 12:51 PM
How many slavs were in North Bucovina and the rest of Moldavia before the Habsburg and Russian Empire took them over? Almost none. North Bucovina is already overrun,while 1/4 of "Basarabia" is now officially slavic(if we add North Bucovina and Buceag/Bujak/"historic Basarabia" the slavs/russified pop. increases.
75% Romanians in what's suppose to be the "non-slav" majority area,that's a disaster -consider a lot of slavs left Rep.Moldova to work in Russia. 50 more years and they would be 50% Romanians and then less and less...

I think that Bukovina and Budjak were always multiethnic regions. Bukovina (especially the City of Cernauti) always had a strong jewish minority and Budjak always had a strong bulgarian minority. Since the soviet occupation ukrainians performed an unprecedented ukrainisation (and persecution campaign) of romanians from Bukovina and Budjak and thats why I think that khokhols (ukrainians) are worse than russians. During the austro-hungarian occupation of Bucovina romanians formed 50+ % of Cernauti's (the largest bukovinian city) population, now after 70 years of ukrainian rule Cernauti's ethnic composition is : 80% ukrainians, 10 % russians, 5 % romanians. can you imagine the scale of ethnic cleansing !? Khokhols are by far the most fanatic irredentists and generally bloody bastards.

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 12:58 PM
Unu dont waste your time with hungarian trolls they just cant get over TRIANON I proved several times that romanians were always the majority in Transilvania and that hungarian claims over this region are nothing more than expansionist dreams.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 01:02 PM
That's how foreigners called it,we don't. You call your country Magyarowhatever,we call it Ungaria. All the Romanian lands were called "Valahias" by foreigners: "Wallachia interior"-Transylvania;"Wallachia" - Tara Romaneasca; Moldovlahia - Moldova;Cisalpine Wallachia - Banat etc.

Please keep your decency and don't make fun of how we call Hungary in our language. In Romanian the land was called Valahia, in Slavic Ungro-Vlahia, the Moldovans were calling it Muntenia, in Medieval Latin manuscripts it was called Transalpina, in Hungarian it was Havasalföld, the Poles called it Basarabia, the Turks Iflak. As you see, Wallachia was called in many terms, but no trace of Romania. Unless you can show me documents of the land being called Romania before the late Medieval period.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 01:05 PM
Please keep your decency and don't make fun of how we call Hungary in our language. In Romanian the land was called Valahia, in Slavic Ungro-Vlahia, the Moldovans were calling it Muntenia, in Medieval Latin manuscripts it was called Transalpina, in Hungarian it was Havasalföld, the Poles called it Basarabia, the Turks Iflak. As you see, Wallachia was called in many terms, but no trace of Romania. Unless you can show me documents of the land being called Romania before the late Medieval period.

I'm not making fun,I just can't spell how hungarians call their own country. :coffee:

No Trace of Romania? =)) It was called Ţara Românească in Romanian,and it still is! Translation=Romanian country/Country of Romanians. AS I SAID,GIVE ME SOURCES OF YOUR CLAIMS ABOUT THE SELF-DESIGNATION OF ROMANIANS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Romania Roman Empire,Byzantine Empire,Latin Empire,Ţara Românească. :coffee:

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 01:21 PM
I'm not making fun,I just can't spell how hungarians call their own country. :coffee:

No Trace of Romania? =)) It was called Ţara Românească in Romanian,and it still is! Translation=Romanian country/Country of Romanians. AS I SAID,GIVE ME SOURCES OF YOUR CLAIMS ABOUT THE SELF-DESIGNATION OF ROMANIANS.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_Romania Roman Empire,Byzantine Empire,Latin Empire,Ţara Românească. :coffee:

Medieval documents mention Vlachs countless times as the designation of today's Romanians, but I yet have to see a document mentioning Tara Romaneasca. Even the petition the Transylvanian School's members sent to emperor Leopold II in the late 18th century, was called Supplex Libellus Valachorum, and not Romanorum. Where is the proof that Romanians always called themselves Romanians, when in Moldova Vlachs came to call themselves as Moldovans, in Serbia, where the Romanian identity propaganda never arrived they still call themselves on their old name as Valah? I see Wallach, Vlah, Volah, Blach, Blak in Medieval documents but not Romanian.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 01:24 PM
Medieval documents mention Vlachs countless times as the designation of today's Romanians, but I yet have to see a document mentioning Tara Romaneasca. Even the petition the Transylvanian School's members sent to emperor Leopold II in the late 18th century, was called Supplex Libellus Valachorum, and not Romanorum. Where is the proof that Romanians always called themselves Romanians, when in Moldova Vlachs came to call themselves as Moldovans, in Serbia, where the Romanian identity propaganda never arrived they still call themselves on their old name as Valah? I see Wallach, Vlah, Volah, Blach, Blak in Medieval documents but not Romanian.

Designation by foreigners(for all romance speakers),not self-designation,Romanians NEVER called themselves vlahs. Ungur prost.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 03:04 PM
Designation by foreigners(for all romance speakers),not self-designation,Romanians NEVER called themselves vlahs. Ungur prost.

I hope the moderators don't tolerate chauvinistic hate speech on this forum. The highlighted text means "stupid Hungarian".

I see Romanian users act the same on all forums. When they don't have arguments they lower the level of debates to hateful insults. It's a shame :rolleyes2:

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 03:27 PM
I hope the moderators don't tolerate chauvinistic hate speech on this forum. The highlighted text means "stupid Hungarian".

I see Romanian users act the same on all forums. When they don't have arguments they lower the level of debates to hateful insults. It's a shame :rolleyes2:

How can it mean hungarian? hungarians call themselves magyars,not unguri. *maybe a certain revelation will come to you. :rolleyes:

PS stop your trolling and show facts I asked about self-designation or just shut up already about this,you're getting pretty damn annoying saying to a Romanian all this bullshit about how Romanians called themselves "vlahs" when you provide nothing and while I keep telling you for the past 2-3 pages that you're wrong.

Onychodus
10-22-2011, 03:53 PM
Khokhols are by far the most fanatic irredentists and generally bloody bastards

Khohkol is a slur

Khokhols are chavinistic?
Romania 1942
notice Ukrainian lands
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/c/cd/20100306173943!ROMANIA_MAI_1942.png

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 04:01 PM
How can it mean hungarian? hungarians call themselves magyars,not unguri. *maybe a certain revelation will come to you. :rolleyes:

PS stop your trolling and show facts I asked about self-designation or just shut up already about this,you're getting pretty damn annoying saying to a Romanian all this bullshit about how Romanians called themselves "vlahs" when you provide nothing and while I keep telling you for the past 2-3 pages that you're wrong.

Stop lying. Ungur means Hungarian in Romanian. Clearly you insulted me on an ethnic basis, since you added my origin to the insult.

I also brought several examples of the occurrence of the name Vlach regarding Romanians from your own sources (Supplex Libellus Valachorum). You obviously don't know important parts from your history, or purposely ignore them. The Vlach name appears even if geographical locations in Romania: river Blahnita, Vlasia forest, Vlahita village, former county Vlasca, etc.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 04:27 PM
Stop lying. Ungur means Hungarian in Romanian. Clearly you insulted me on an ethnic basis, since you added my origin to the insult.

You derailed this thread into some hungarian butthurt of yours. If I called you anything maybe you deserve it for your trolling pigheadedness in insisting on something you have no idea whatsoever. By your own logic either 1)"ungur" can't mean hungarian because hungarians don't call themselves ungur or 2)magyars don't really exist it's just invention of yours because other people don't call hungarians "magyars".


I also brought several examples of the occurrence of the name Vlach regarding Romanians from your own sources (Supplex Libellus Valachorum). You obviously don't know important parts from your history, or purposely ignore them. The Vlach name appears even if geographical locations in Romania: river Blahnita, Vlasia forest, Vlahita village, former county Vlasca, etc.

Take it another way "vlah" comes from the Germanic word "foreigner",why would we call ourselves foreigners ? If you have a brain use it -> now.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 04:52 PM
You derailed this thread into some hungarian butthurt of yours. If I called you anything maybe you deserve it for your trolling pigheadedness in insisting on something you have no idea whatsoever. By your own logic either 1)"ungur" can't mean hungarian because hungarians don't call themselves ungur or 2)magyars don't really exist it's just invention of yours because other people don't call hungarians "magyars".



Take it another way "vlah" comes from the Germanic word "foreigner",why would we call ourselves foreigners ? If you have a brain use it -> now.

Why you mumble, because you parallel makes absolute no sense? You have no excuse for using chauvinistic insults. If you would be honest you probably would recognize that you were wrong and apologize.

As I gave you examples, Romanians seem to been using this term in naming geographical places. I am just stupefied how can you deny your own heritage and history.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 05:09 PM
Why you mumble, because you parallel makes absolute no sense? You have no excuse for using chauvinistic insults. If you would be honest you probably would recognize that you were wrong and apologize.

No,you.



As I gave you examples, Romanians seem to been using this term in naming geographical places. I am just stupefied how can you deny your own heritage and history.

What "examples"? I kept asking you all afternoon and you didn't give any examples of Romanians calling themselves vlahs,furthermore I'm saying this as a Romanian - no Romanian country had/has the name "Wallachia" in Romanian,none. "Vlah" doesn't mean anything in Romanian,doesn't even make sense,"vlah" is what the slavs and germans called the Romans.


Now see how Romanians called themselves according to various italian humanists in the 16th century:

Tranquillo Andronico notes in 1534, that romanians („Valachi”)„call themselves romans”. *„nunc se Romanos vocant” în Endre Veress, Fontes rerum transylvanicarum: Erdélyi történelmi források, Történettudományi Intézet, Magyar Tudományos Akadémia, Budapest, 1914, S. 204


Francesco della Valle writes in 1532 that romanians „call themselves romans in their own language”.Furthermore he notes a romanian expression:„Sti rominest?”(Do you know romanian?). *„...si dimandano in lingua loro Romei...se alcuno dimanda se sano parlare in la lingua valacca, dicono a questo in questo modo: Sti Rominest ? Che vol dire: Sai tu Romano,...” în: Claudio Isopescu, Notizie intorno ai romeni nella letteratura geografica italiana del Cinquecento, in Bulletin de la Section Historique, XVI, 1929, p. 1- 90







After a jurney in Wallachia,Moldavia and Transylvania Ferrante Capecci writes in 1575 that the inhabitants of these lands call themselves „romans”(„romanesci”). * „Anzi essi si chiamano romanesci, e vogliono molti che erano mandati quě quei che erano dannati a cavar metalli...” în: Maria Holban, Călători străini despre Ţările Române, Bucureşti, Editura Stiinţifică, 1970, vol. II, p.158 – 161



Pierre Lescalopier writes in 1574 those who live in Moldova , Tara Romaneasca(Wallachia)and the greater part of Transylvania,„consider themselves true heirs of the romans and name their language "romaneste", meaning roman” *„Tout ce pays la Wallachie et Moldavie et la plus part de la Transivanie a esté peuplé des colonie romaines du temps de Traian l’empereur…Ceux du pays se disent vrais successeurs des Romains et nomment leur parler romanechte, c'est-ŕ-dire romain … ”, Voyage fait par moy, Pierre Lescalopier l’an 1574 de Venise a Constantinople, in: Paul Cernovodeanu, Studii si materiale de istorie medievala, IV, 1960, p. 444


This is about 200-300 years before the italians,from the German Nibelungen song (written around 1204)*"Der herzoge Ramunch vzer Vlâchen lant/mit Sibenhunduert mannen chom er fvr si gerant/sam die wilden vogele so sah man si varn" -> The Romanian Duke from the Valachian land/with Seven hundred men runs to meet her/like the wild birds,you saw them ride/


Again,remember "Vlah","Valahia" are foreign names,not used by the latins for themselves:

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%82ochy Poles call Italy "Wlochy"
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wo%C5%82oszczyzna Poles call Ţara Românescă(Wallachia in English) Wołoszczyzna

http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olaszorsz%C3%A1g Hungarians called Italy "Olaszország"
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rom%C3%A1nok in old Hungarian romanians were called "olah"(vlah) by hungarians.


You're gonna say Italians called themselves vlahs too I suppose? -_- And maybe stop derailing this thread with your butthurt hungarian lies and worthless propaganda.


I hope the moderators don't tolerate chauvinistic hate speech on this forum. The highlighted text means "stupid Hungarian".

I see Romanian users act the same on all forums. When they don't have arguments they lower the level of debates to hateful insults. It's a shame :rolleyes2:

I had enough of this guys trolling. Maybe a moderator should notice him/herself with this troll already,he didn't do anything half a day but over-insist on his bullshit theories(romanians calling themselves vlahs *I told him everytime it isn't so,also another romanian did so),and although I asked him to stop and give some sources where romanians called themselves vlahs in their own language,he didn't and kept spamming the thread. The last time before he wrote that,being sick and tired of his anti-romanian bullshit I added at the end "Ungur prost"(*notice it wasn't in English or Hungarian) to prove a point once and for all(since he keeps spamming) -> that dif. people from dif. nations call each other differently,now this troll says I promoted "chauvinistic hate speech"(as if I said "murder all hungarians" or something,even so most people have no idea what it means since it's written in Romanian - to prove a point),and adds I don't have arguments,as if all along I was the one spamming bs with no sources. :coffee:

*Notice how this racist piece of troll also generalizes hate speech for all Romanians on forums "Romanian users act the same on all forums".

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 06:25 PM
No,you.



What "examples"? I kept asking you all afternoon and you didn't give any examples of Romanians calling themselves vlahs,furthermore I'm saying this as a Romanian - no Romanian country had/has the name "Wallachia" in Romanian,none. "Vlah" doesn't mean anything in Romanian,doesn't even make sense,"vlah" is what the slavs and germans called the Romans.


Now see how Romanians called themselves according to various italian humanists in the 16th century:

Tranquillo Andronico notes in 1534, that romanians („Valachi”)„call themselves romans”. *„nunc se Romanos vocant” în Endre Veress, Fontes rerum transylvanicarum: Erdélyi történelmi források, Történettudományi Intézet, Magyar Tudományos Akadémia, Budapest, 1914, S. 204


Francesco della Valle writes in 1532 that romanians „call themselves romans in their own language”.Furthermore he notes a romanian expression:„Sti rominest?”(Do you know romanian?). *„...si dimandano in lingua loro Romei...se alcuno dimanda se sano parlare in la lingua valacca, dicono a questo in questo modo: Sti Rominest ? Che vol dire: Sai tu Romano,...” în: Claudio Isopescu, Notizie intorno ai romeni nella letteratura geografica italiana del Cinquecento, in Bulletin de la Section Historique, XVI, 1929, p. 1- 90







After a jurney in Wallachia,Moldavia and Transylvania Ferrante Capecci writes in 1575 that the inhabitants of these lands call themselves „romans”(„romanesci”). * „Anzi essi si chiamano romanesci, e vogliono molti che erano mandati quě quei che erano dannati a cavar metalli...” în: Maria Holban, Călători străini despre Ţările Române, Bucureşti, Editura Stiinţifică, 1970, vol. II, p.158 – 161



Pierre Lescalopier writes in 1574 those who live in Moldova , Tara Romaneasca(Wallachia)and the greater part of Transylvania,„consider themselves true heirs of the romans and name their language "romaneste", meaning roman” *„Tout ce pays la Wallachie et Moldavie et la plus part de la Transivanie a esté peuplé des colonie romaines du temps de Traian l’empereur…Ceux du pays se disent vrais successeurs des Romains et nomment leur parler romanechte, c'est-ŕ-dire romain … ”, Voyage fait par moy, Pierre Lescalopier l’an 1574 de Venise a Constantinople, in: Paul Cernovodeanu, Studii si materiale de istorie medievala, IV, 1960, p. 444


This is about 200-300 years before the italians,from the German Nibelungen song (written around 1204)*"Der herzoge Ramunch vzer Vlâchen lant/mit Sibenhunduert mannen chom er fvr si gerant/sam die wilden vogele so sah man si varn" -> The Romanian Duke from the Valachian land/with Seven hundred men runs to meet her/like the wild birds,you saw them ride/


Again,remember "Vlah","Valahia" are foreign names,not used by the latins for themselves:

http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/W%C5%82ochy Poles call Italy "Wlochy"
http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wo%C5%82oszczyzna Poles call Ţara Românescă(Wallachia in English) Wołoszczyzna

http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Olaszorsz%C3%A1g Hungarians called Italy "Olaszország"
http://hu.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rom%C3%A1nok in old Hungarian romanians were called "olah"(vlah) by hungarians.


You're gonna say Italians called themselves vlahs too I suppose? -_- And maybe stop derailing this thread with your butthurt hungarian lies and worthless propaganda.



I had enough of this guys trolling. Maybe a moderator should notice him/herself with this troll already,he didn't do anything half a day but over-insist on his bullshit theories(romanians calling themselves vlahs *I told him everytime it isn't so,also another romanian did so),and although I asked him to stop and give some sources where romanians called themselves vlahs in their own language,he didn't and kept spamming the thread. The last time before he wrote that,being sick and tired of his anti-romanian bullshit I added at the end "Ungur prost"(*notice it wasn't in English or Hungarian) to prove a point once and for all(since he keeps spamming) -> that dif. people from dif. nations call each other differently,now this troll says I promoted "chauvinistic hate speech"(as if I said "murder all hungarians" or something,even so most people have no idea what it means since it's written in Romanian - to prove a point),and adds I don't have arguments,as if all along I was the one spamming bs with no sources. :coffee:

*Notice how this racist piece of troll also generalizes hate speech for all Romanians on forums "Romanian users act the same on all forums".

Taking aside your highly disrespectful language towards me, I think those examples are very interesting. This is what I been asking so far, to finally read mentioning of the Romanians from Medieval sources, which you provided, but not before causing much drama, culminating in insulting my nationality. But I still don't see why would you deny that Romanians have anything to do with the Vlachs. In the Balkans Latin speaking people are still called Vlachs. And Romanians have more deeper connection with the Balkans than most know about. But that would be another discussion.

Volkodav
10-22-2011, 06:48 PM
How can it mean hungarian? hungarians call themselves magyars,not unguri. *maybe a certain revelation will come to you. :rolleyes:

PS stop your trolling and show facts I asked about self-designation or just shut up already about this,you're getting pretty damn annoying saying to a Romanian all this bullshit about how Romanians called themselves "vlahs" when you provide nothing and while I keep telling you for the past 2-3 pages that you're wrong.

:bored0: :eusa_doh:
UNGUR is hungarian, very little use of the word "magyar" in the spoken language.

Romanians never called themselfes vlachs or romanians, moslty by their place of origin Muntean-Moldovan-Ardelean-Oltean and so on, or when they were from the same village they called themselfes "pământeni" .

HungAryan
10-22-2011, 07:01 PM
romanians were always the majority in Transilvani.

No, they weren't.

http://www.imninalu.net/Myths_files/Vlach-expansion.jpg

The Vlachs (Romanians) originally came from modern-day Albania.

The first records about Vlach (Romanian) presence in Transylvania dates back to the 15th century.
Before the 19th century, the Hungarians were the dominant ethnicity in Transylvania.
The transistion from Hungarian majority to Vlach (Romanian) majority was a slow and very gradual shift.

It all began when the Ottomans conquered the Balkans in the 15th century.
The Vlachs (Romanians) were fleeing the Turks.
They found refugee in Transylvania.
While the Hungarians were fighting the Turks, the Vlachs (Romanians) were herding goats and sheep. This way, the Vlach (Romanian) population increased, while the Hungarian population declined.

After the Austrians conquered Hungary and Transylvania, there were several struggles for independence on the Hungarian side. The Hungarians were not so happy with Austrian rule, and there was constant turmoil. However, the Vlachs (Romanians), Serbs and Slovaks were loyal to Austria.
Therefore, the Habsburg Monarchy institutionalized policies which led to the further decline of Hungarian population and increase of Vlach (Romanian) , Serbian and Slovakian population on the expense of the Hungarians.

After the compromise in 1867, the Habsburg Monarchy turned pro-Hungarian, and implemented a policy of Hungarization in Northern Hungary ("Slovakia"), Vojvodina and Transylvania.
The Hungarization of the Slovaks was a success. If the Treaty of Trianon didn't happen, all of the Slovaks would have been fully Hungarized by 1930.
However, the attempts at the Hungarization of Vlachs (Romanians) was a failure. The culture was too different. Even the religion is different.

And this is how it went... between 1490 and 1700, the population of Greater Hungary went from 90% Hungarian to only 45% Hungarian.
Why? Because the Habsburgs invited non-Hungarians to repopulate the lands devastated by the Austrian-Turkish Wars.
Furthermore, 150 years of Ottoman rule - before the Austrian conquest in 1683 - also had severe effects on the Hungarian population. There was famine.

In 1495, Greater Hungary's population was 4,000,000, and 90% of them were Hungarians (3,600,000 Hungarians out of 4,000,000 total population), meaning that the rest 10% (about 400,000 people) were the non-Hungarian minorities.
In 1711, Greater Hungary's population 3,000,000, and only 45% were Hungarians (only 1,350,000 Hungarians out of 3,000,000 people), meaing that the rest 55% (1,650,000 people) were non-Hungarians: Vlachs (Romanians), Serbs, Slovaks and others.

1495: 4,000,000 people, 90% Hungarian
1711: only 3,000,000 people, only 45% Hungarian

The radical change is easy to see.

The Vlachs (Romanians) in Transylvania were the medieval equivalents of the modern-day Immigrants.
They were some dirty immigrants who were exploiting the demand for workforce.

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 07:09 PM
Khohkol is a slur

Khokhols are chavinistic?
Romania 1942
notice Ukrainian lands
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/archive/c/cd/20100306173943!ROMANIA_MAI_1942.png

Yes they are and even you (I guess you are ukrainaian) cant deny that.
I know that khakhol is a slur thats exactly why I used it :) Originaly though, like many other words it was not a slur. I suppose you know what is the origin of this word and I dont have to explain it to you.

The romanian occupation (see what I just wrote there) of Transnistria was a short lived one and it didn't cause that much pain as you ukrainians inflicted on romanian people from Bukovina and Budjak. I'm a rather fair person or so I like to think :) and I believe that I am able to distinguish right from wrong and lies from truth.

Let me ask you something, what do you think of Bukovina and Budjak ? so that a I can see if you are fair or not ...

HungAryan
10-22-2011, 07:12 PM
I believe that I am able to distinguish right from wrong and lies from truth.

Sure, you believe that... :rotfl:

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 07:14 PM
:bored0: :eusa_doh:
UNGUR is hungarian, very little use of the word "magyar" in the spoken language.

Romanians never called themselfes vlachs or romanians, moslty by their place of origin Muntean-Moldovan-Ardelean-Oltean and so on, or when they were from the same village they called themselfes "pământeni" .

Correctly pointed out. Romanians identify to this day a lot with the region they are from. I know Romanians that claim they are Banateni (people from Banat) and have nothing to do with the Olteni, Moldoveni, and Mitici (denigrate term to people of Bucharest and the rest of Muntenia). These regional identifications are much older than the general Romanian one.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 07:17 PM
I guess this is what a user meant when he said he considers hungarians more balkanoid. This must be the 9999,9999,9999 hungarian internet spam-war from shady internet sites declared on Romanians.

@IVDEVS_AVGVSTVS Thank you for spamming useless "facts" from a useless site. But I agree it does makes a great deal of sense that the largest population in the area,at least 2-3 times as many as any given ethnicity around(east slavs excluded) came from Albania(the size of a Romanian county) and that at the same we hardly have anything to do culturally or lingvistic with Greeks or Albanians. PS gimme whatever you're smoking,it seems wonderful.

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 07:18 PM
Sure, you believe that... :rotfl:

bite me mogyor :p Transilvania is Romania no matter what your imperialistic ass might think :) Romanians were ALWAYS , now I repeat that, A-L-W-A-Y-S the majoritarian ethnicity in Transilvania.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 07:22 PM
:bored0: :eusa_doh:
UNGUR is hungarian, very little use of the word "magyar" in the spoken language.

Romanians never called themselfes vlachs or romanians, moslty by their place of origin Muntean-Moldovan-Ardelean-Oltean and so on, or when they were from the same village they called themselfes "pământeni" .


:thumbs up Thanks Captain Obvious. That's regional identification,not ethnic *the whole point of the discussion is what Romanians called Romanians in their own language . Eventually Romanians also identify with the county, and city they are from and the city area. I'm a pietrean,how are you?(lol)

PS There is no "vlah" identification at any level,ethnic or regional.

HungAryan
10-22-2011, 07:23 PM
bite me mogyor :p Transilvania is Romania no matter what your imperialistic ass might think

Imperialistic? You are the Imperialistic.
Transylvania was part of Hungary between 895 and 1920.
Northern Transylvania became part of Hungary again in 1941, but the Soviets gave it to the Vlachs again in 1945.

Transylvania is Hungary.


Romanians were ALWAYS, now I repeat that, A-L-W-A-Y-S the majoritarian ethnicity in Transilvania.

Bullshit.

The first records about Vlach (Romanian) presence in Transylvania dates back to the 15th century.
Before the 19th century, the Hungarians were the dominant ethnicity in Transylvania.
The transistion from Hungarian majority to Vlach (Romanian) majority was a slow and very gradual shift.

It all began when the Ottomans conquered the Balkans in the 15th century.
The Vlachs (Romanians) were fleeing the Turks.
They found refugee in Transylvania.
While the Hungarians were fighting the Turks, the Vlachs (Romanians) were herding goats and sheep. This way, the Vlach (Romanian) population increased, while the Hungarian population declined.

After the Austrians conquered Hungary and Transylvania, there were several struggles for independence on the Hungarian side. The Hungarians were not so happy with Austrian rule, and there was constant turmoil. However, the Vlachs (Romanians), Serbs and Slovaks were loyal to Austria.
Therefore, the Habsburg Monarchy institutionalized policies which led to the further decline of Hungarian population and increase of Vlach (Romanian) , Serbian and Slovakian population on the expense of the Hungarians.

After the compromise in 1867, the Habsburg Monarchy turned pro-Hungarian, and implemented a policy of Hungarization in Northern Hungary ("Slovakia"), Vojvodina and Transylvania.
The Hungarization of the Slovaks was a success. If the Treaty of Trianon didn't happen, all of the Slovaks would have been fully Hungarized by 1930.
However, the attempts at the Hungarization of Vlachs (Romanians) was a failure. The culture was too different. Even the religion is different.

And this is how it went... between 1490 and 1700, the population of Greater Hungary went from 90% Hungarian to only 45% Hungarian.
Why? Because the Habsburgs invited non-Hungarians to repopulate the lands devastated by the Austrian-Turkish Wars.
Furthermore, 150 years of Ottoman rule - before the Austrian conquest in 1683 - also had severe effects on the Hungarian population. There was famine.

In 1495, Greater Hungary's population was 4,000,000, and 90% of them were Hungarians (3,600,000 Hungarians out of 4,000,000 total population), meaning that the rest 10% (about 400,000 people) were the non-Hungarian minorities.
In 1711, Greater Hungary's population 3,000,000, and only 45% were Hungarians (only 1,350,000 Hungarians out of 3,000,000 people), meaing that the rest 55% (1,650,000 people) were non-Hungarians: Vlachs (Romanians), Serbs, Slovaks and others.

1495: 4,000,000 people, 90% Hungarian
1711: only 3,000,000 people, only 45% Hungarian

The radical change is easy to see.

The Vlachs (Romanians) in Transylvania were the medieval equivalents of the modern-day Immigrants.
They were some dirty immigrants who were exploiting the demand for workforce.

Romanians became majority in Transylvania in he 18th or 19th century.
They came as immigrants.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 07:32 PM
Taking aside your highly disrespectful language towards me, I think those examples are very interesting. This is what I been asking so far, to finally read mentioning of the Romanians from Medieval sources, which you provided, but not before causing much drama, culminating in insulting my nationality. But I still don't see why would you deny that Romanians have anything to do with the Vlachs. In the Balkans Latin speaking people are still called Vlachs. And Romanians have more deeper connection with the Balkans than most know about. But that would be another discussion.

Your disrespectful troll-spam,the fact that you make my example into a nation-wide drama although what I said can only refer ONE person at most, and culminating in negatively generalizing ALL Romanians is not something you should hide.

Also nice that I had to browse the internet because the fact that I,a Romanian,wasn't believable as a source on how Romanians call themselves. Thanks,hungarian. :ranger:

HungAryan
10-22-2011, 07:33 PM
Who cares what the hell the Romanians call themselves.
The main point is that Transylvania is Hungary, and that's it.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 07:37 PM
Who cares what the hell the Romanians call themselves.
The main point is that Transylvania is Hungary, and that's it.

The point is this blonde is right:

zqi0DwNLJdM

HungAryan
10-22-2011, 07:40 PM
The point is this blonde is right:

zqi0DwNLJdM

That girl? http://www.theapricity.com/forum/images/smilies/rotfl.gif

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 07:42 PM
Imperialistic? You are the Imperialistic.
Transylvania was part of Hungary between 895 and 1920.
Northern Transylvania became part of Hungary again in 1941, but the Soviets gave it to the Vlachs again in 1945.

Transylvania is Hungary.



Bullshit.


Yes Transylvania was a part of Hungary for 1000 years and you should be proud of that considering the fact that such a small nation (hungarians) managed to rule such a vast area. This hungarian-ottoman wars theory being the cause of hungarian demise is BOGUS and you know it. The only battles that you fought against Turkey was the Battle of Belgrade wich was won by a ROMANIAN Iancu de Hundedoara and the other one was the Battle of Mohachs wich you disgracefully lost (bacuse you did not have the romanian warriors to protect your arses).

The only real anti-ottoman resistance in the Balkans were the romanians (Vlad the Impaler, Stephen the Great, Iancu de Hunedoara, Michael the Brave) and an albanian (Skanderbeg) and a serb (Starina Novak, a serbian hajduk) ... you hungarians were dancing and partying in the palaces of Budapest while others died protecting Europe from turkish occupation.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 07:44 PM
bite me mogyor :p Transilvania is Romania no matter what your imperialistic ass might think :) Romanians were ALWAYS , now I repeat that, A-L-W-A-Y-S the majoritarian ethnicity in Transilvania.

Even you know that is just a myth. In lack of too much documents regarding Vlachs in the Middle Ages we should turn towards archeology and architecture. The Vlachs from the start belonged to the Byzantine Church (Orthodox), and in the Middle Ages the center of the village was the church. However according to a Romanian historian, Giurescu, the first Orthodox churches in Transylvania are the ones in Demsus-Densus, Zeykfalva-Streiu, Sztrigy-szentgyörgy-Streisangeorgiu built at the end of the 13th century. Thus the complete nonexistence of Orthodox churches in Transylvania before the 13th century exclude the possibility of any villages populated by Vlachs.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 07:49 PM
The point is this blonde is right:

zqi0DwNLJdM

There you go again ridiculing Hungarians. Guess the wolf can never hide in sheep clothing to the infinite, and eventually shows its true color. You are the one here who gives low chauvinistic blows, rather than maintaining a temperate mode of arguing.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 07:53 PM
Yes Transylvania was a part of Hungary for 1000 years and you should be proud of that considering the fact that such a small nation (hungarians) managed to rule such a vast area. This hungarian-ottoman wars theory being the cause of hungarian demise is BOGUS and you know it. The only battles that you fought against Turkey was the Battle of Belgrade wich was won by a ROMANIAN Iancu de Hundedoara and the other one was the Battle of Mohachs wich you disgracefully lost (bacuse you did not have the romanian warriors to protect your arses).

The only real anti-ottoman resistance in the Balkans were the romanians (Vlad the Impaler, Stephen the Great, Iancu de Hunedoara, Michael the Brave) and an albanian (Skanderbeg) and a serb (Starina Novak, a serbian hajduk) ... you hungarians were dancing and partying in the palaces of Budapest while others died protecting Europe from turkish occupation.


Your ignorance of real history amazes me. I am sorry I gave so far any importance to the ideas of an amateur (to formulate gallantly).

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 07:54 PM
There you go again ridiculing Hungarians. Guess the wolf can never hide in sheep clothing to the infinite, and eventually shows its true color. You are the one here who gives low chauvinistic blows, rather than maintaining a temperate mode of arguing.

I guess replying to a hungarian that said the point is he wants Transylvania,romanian land, must a crime in Ungaria. My deepest apologies to you sirs.

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 07:58 PM
Even you know that is just a myth. In lack of too much documents regarding Vlachs in the Middle Ages we should turn towards archeology and architecture. The Vlachs from the start belonged to the Byzantine Church (Orthodox), and in the Middle Ages the center of the village was the church. However according to a Romanian historian, Giurescu, the first Orthodox churches in Transylvania are the ones in Demsus-Densus, Zeykfalva-Streiu, Sztrigy-szentgyörgy-Streisangeorgiu built at the end of the 13th century. Thus the complete nonexistence of Orthodox churches in Transylvania before the 13th century exclude the possibility of any villages populated by Vlachs.

Well, thats when churches started to be built. During the 11th through 14th centuries, a wave of building of cathedrals and smaller parish churches occurred across Western Europe, and as you know things happen a little later in eastern Europe, and how would you imagine that the Hungarian Kingdom (a protestant one by excellence wich later became a catholic one ) would allow orthodox people to build orthodox churches !? this argument of yours is at least laughable.

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 08:04 PM
Your ignorance of real history amazes me. I am sorry I gave so far any importance to the ideas of an amateur (to formulate gallantly).

let me rephrase that ... the only 2 :D important battles that you fought ... is that more professional ? or you object to the fact that Iancu de Hunedoara was romanian ?

if not please do give us a lesson in "real" history :)

Ushtari
10-22-2011, 08:05 PM
I think its time to stick to facts here, Romanians have as tradition to lie, just like Serbs.

It is commonly accepted among scholars that the original home of Romanians is further to the south, where they also had contact with proto-Albanians.

Onychodus
10-22-2011, 08:10 PM
Yes they are and even you (I guess you are ukrainaian) cant deny that.
I know that khakhol is a slur thats exactly why I used it :) Originaly though, like many other words it was not a slur. I suppose you know what is the origin of this word and I dont have to explain it to you.

The romanian occupation (see what I just wrote there) of Transnistria was a short lived one and it didn't cause that much pain as you ukrainians inflicted on romanian people from Bukovina and Budjak. I'm a rather fair person or so I like to think :) and I believe that I am able to distinguish right from wrong and lies from truth.

Let me ask you something, what do you think of Bukovina and Budjak ? so that a I can see if you are fair or not ...

I am against any ethnic cleansings and people should live in peace.

About Bukovina:
"According to medieval Kievan sources, until the 10th century the territory had been part of White Croatia and later under the Kievan Rus', and in 12th to early 14th century, Principality of Halych-Volhynia, included parts of the region.
In the mid-14th century, the Moldavian state appeared, eventually expanding its territory all the way to the Black Sea. Bukovina and neighboring regions were the nucleus of the Moldavian Principality, with the city of Suceava as its capital from 1388 (after Baia and Siret). The name of Moldavia (Moldova) is derived from a river (Moldova River) flowing in Bukovina"

So this region is touched by both cultures

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 08:10 PM
Whooooooo the albo troll is back :) ... give me a break Ushtari, Romanians and Albanians have nothing in common except for the illyrian/trachian/dacian look (thats pred dinaric look)

Ushtari
10-22-2011, 08:15 PM
Whooooooo the albo troll is back :) ... give me a break Ushtari, Romanians and Albanians have nothing in common except for the illyrian/trachian/dacian look (thats pred dinaric look)
Really? then why do Albanian share cognates with the substratum in Romanian? not to mention the extensive amount of shared Latin loans, who are mostly one sided, from Albanian into Romanian:rolleyes:

morski
10-22-2011, 08:15 PM
There might be something to what Ushtari said. Once read that the geographic area of Romanian ethnogenesis was in the triangle Sofia, Nish, Belgrad.

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 08:17 PM
I am against any ethnic cleasings and people should live in peace.

About Bukovina:
"According to medieval Kievan sources, until the 10th century the territory had been part of White Croatia and later under the Kievan Rus', and in 12th to early 14th century, Principality of Halych-Volhynia, included parts of the region.
In the mid-14th century, the Moldavian state appeared, eventually expanding its territory all the way to the Black Sea. Bukovina and neighboring regions were the nucleus of the Moldavian Principality, with the city of Suceava as its capital from 1388 (after Baia and Siret). The name of Moldavia (Moldova) is derived from a river (Moldova River) flowing in Bukovina"

So this region is touched by both cultures

you are rather fair, I'll give you that ... but that doesn't change the fact that romanians from Bukovina were persecuted in the last 70 years (deported, killed, forcefully assimilated)

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 08:18 PM
I think its time to stick to facts here, Romanians have as tradition to lie, just like Serbs.

It is commonly accepted among scholars that the original home of Romanians is further to the south, where they also had contact with proto-Albanians.

Thanks for the troll albanian,tell that to the serbs that say albanians migrated from Romania or Greeks that say Albanians migrated from the Caucasus during the Ottoman Empire and call themselves Dardani from the Dardanelles straights. :coffee:

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 08:18 PM
Well, thats when churches started to be built. During the 11th through 14th centuries, a wave of building of cathedrals and smaller parish churches occurred across Western Europe, and as you know things happen a little later in eastern Europe, and how would you imagine that the Hungarian Kingdom (a protestant one by excellence wich later became a catholic one ) would allow orthodox people to build orthodox churches !? this argument of yours is at least laughable.

How to argue with a guy who writes such science-fiction statements? Just for saying such a ridiculous thing you kind of disqualified all your credibility. I advise you to read some books and than come back here. Maybe then you will figure it out how stupid that sentence sounds ;)

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 08:21 PM
How to argue with a guy who writes such science-fiction statements? Just for saying such a ridiculous thing you kind of disqualified all your credibility. I advise you to read some books and than come back here. Maybe then you will figure it out how stupid that sentence sounds ;)

What about saying for half a day Romanians called themselves "vlahs" in their own language? :rolleyes2:
I demand an apology for your senseless trolling.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 08:21 PM
There might be something to what Ushtari said. Once read that the geographic area of Romanian ethnogenesis was in the triangle Sofia, Nish, Belgrad.

Their ancestors are still situated in the Timoc Valley, who never got in touch with the modern Romanian language and identity north of the Danube, and preserve the archaic Vlach language and culture.

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 08:22 PM
Really? then why do Albanian share cognates with the substratum in Romanian? not to mention the extensive amount of shared Latin loans, who are mostly one sided, from Albanian into Romanian:rolleyes:

the "extensive" amount that you are talking about is about 100 words :) that is trully "A LOT"

as for the cognates .. that would be the illyrian/thracian/dacian heritage (another 150 words) :) Ohhh yeah thats a lot that we have in common :) Give it a rest Ushtari.

Ushtari
10-22-2011, 08:23 PM
Thanks for the troll albanian,tell that to the serbs that say albanians migrated from Romania or Greeks that say Albanians migrated from the Caucasus during the Ottoman Empire and call themselves Dardani from the Dardanelles straights. :coffee:
You know what the difference is between you and me? i like to stick to facts, while you like to stick to wishful thinking.

I will start of by presenting you the following source, wich speaks about shared Latin loans in Albanian and Romanian, who are mostly one sided, ie from Albanian into Romanian:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4594/secondj.jpg
http://books.google.com/books?id=XFtbEd1ojBsC&printsec=frontcover&dq=a+modern+grammar+of+indo+european&hl=en&ei=rO-2TaDfNYnQ4wag6oX6Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 08:24 PM
How to argue with a guy who writes such science-fiction statements? Just for saying such a ridiculous thing you kind of disqualified all your credibility. I advise you to read some books and than come back here. Maybe then you will figure it out how stupid that sentence sounds ;)

Do you deny the fact that Hungary was once protestant ?

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 08:25 PM
Do you deny the fact that Hungary was once protestant ?

He will deny Hungary ever existed if that means trolling Romanians. :rolleyes2:

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 08:31 PM
Do you deny the fact that Hungary was once protestant ?

Very childish question, took out of the context, which shows very limited knowledge about Hungarian history. It is like I would ask "do you deny Germany was once Catholic?" :rolleyes:

HungAryan
10-22-2011, 08:31 PM
The Romanian name of Romania's capital, Bucharest is Bucaresti.
The Romanian word "Bucaresti" comes from the Albanian "Bukaresti" which means "he is beautiful".

A coincidence? :D
Romanians = Albanians who speak a Romance language :D

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 08:33 PM
You know what the difference is between you and me? i like to stick to facts, while you like to stick to wishful thinking.

I will start of by presenting you the following source, wich speaks about shared Latin loans in Albanian and Romanian, who are mostly one sided, ie from Albanian into Romanian:

http://img232.imageshack.us/img232/4594/secondj.jpg
http://books.google.com/books?id=XFtbEd1ojBsC&printsec=frontcover&dq=a+modern+grammar+of+indo+european&hl=en&ei=rO-2TaDfNYnQ4wag6oX6Dw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q&f=false


Your logic is beyond awesome. First you say Romanians originate south with albanians,that inevitably means they had contact with albanians and influenced each-other. Then you give me a link and say it was only the Romanians who got influenced,this can only lead to the fact that Albanians immigrated to Romania and influenced the language and that albanians had no prior contact because there is no Romanian influence in Albanian. Logic is scary! :coffee:

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 08:35 PM
The Romanian name of Romania's capital, Bucharest is Bucaresti.
The Romanian word "Bucaresti" comes from the Albanian "Bukaresti" which means "he is beautiful".

A coincidence? :D
Romanians = Albanians who speak a Romance language :D

Nice try but bucurie(romanian)=happiness.

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 08:37 PM
Very childish question, took out of the context, which shows very limited knowledge about Hungarian history. It is like I would ask "do you deny Germany was once Catholic?" :rolleyes:

Hungarians were protestants ... dont give me the I know everything attitude, I studied enough about Hungary to know that they were once protestants.

Ushtari
10-22-2011, 08:44 PM
Your logic is beyond awesome. First you say Romanians originate south with albanians,that inevitably means they had contact with albanians and influenced each-other. Then you give me a link and say it was only the Romanians who got influenced,this can only lead to the fact that Albanians immigrated to Romania and influenced the language and that albanians had no prior contact because there is no Romanian influence in Albanian. Logic is scary! :coffee:
And they did, but the Latin loans are mostly one sided.

However, Albanian also share cognates with the substratum in Romanian.


Linguists have long been aware that Albanian and Romanian have many features in common, in matters of structure, vocabulary and idiom, and that these must have arisen in two ways. First, the 'substratum' of Romanian (that is, the language spoken by the proto-Romanians before they switched to Latin) must have been similar to Albanian; and secondly, there must have been close contact between Albanians and early Romanian-speakers over a long period, involving a shared pastoral life. (Some key elements of the pastoral vocabulary in Romanian are borrowed from Albanian.) [63] The substratum elements include both structural matters, such as the positioning of the definite article as a suffix on the end of the noun, and various elements of primitive Balkan pre-Latin vocabulary, such as copil ('child' in Romanian) or kopil ('bastard child' in Albanian). [64] If the links between the two languages were only at substratum level, this might not imply any geographical proximity - it would merely show that proto-Albanian was similar to other varieties of Illyrian spoken elsewhere. But the pastoral connections do indicate that Albanians and early Romanians lived for a long time in the same (or at least overlapping) areas.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8699791/Noel-Malcolm-Origins-Serbs-Albanians-and-Vlachs

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 08:51 PM
And they did, but the Latin loans are mostly one sided.

As far as I know the romanian-albanian language connection resumes to a few tens of words at most. Show me these loans and explain their role? As far as I'm concerned you're just saying Albanians from Albania had no contact with Romanians,unless Albanians emigrated to Romania and influenced the Romanians and the Romanian language.



However, Albanian also share cognates with the substratum in Romanian.


The substratum shares are there because of the ancient Thracian connection, duh.

Mordid
10-22-2011, 08:52 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3158/2590110505_cb38004c61.jpg

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 08:56 PM
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3158/2590110505_cb38004c61.jpg


All I wanted is to see the common perception of foreigners about Romania and Romanians(about it being balkan or not),but...
http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/7014/arpad2.jpg

Ushtari
10-22-2011, 09:02 PM
As far as I know the romanian-albanian language connection resumes to a few tens of words at most. Show me these loans and explain their role? As far as I'm concerned you're just saying Albanians from Albania had no contact with Romanians,unless Albanians emigrated to Romania and influenced the Romanians and the Romanian language.
Dont try to play smart here, the sources i presented clearly states that proto-albanians and proto-romanians had close contact with each other and that this happened in the Dardanian region.



The substratum shares are there because of the ancient Thracian connection, duh.
There is no evidence of the substratum in Romanian being Thracian.

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 09:02 PM
There might be something to what Ushtari said. Once read that the geographic area of Romanian ethnogenesis was in the triangle Sofia, Nish, Belgrad.

Morski do you really believe that some illyrian romanised herders (shepherds) can latinize such a great slavic population (cause according to this theory slavs inhabited present day Romania before the vlachs) and if you believe hungarians they too came to Transylvania before romanians did, so they had to latineze mogyors too. I mean they had to settle in a land populated by warriors, they had to overcome them and assimilate them :) Isnt that to much of a task for a bunch of sheep guards ? :)

This theory is lame as fuck (pardon my french) it is a hungarian invention who's purpose was to legitimate Transylvania's occupation.

Thats my last post. Good night.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 09:06 PM
Dont try to play smart here, the sources i presented clearly states that proto-albanians and proto-romanians had close contact with each other and that this happened in the Dardanian region.

Impossible to be one sided then,unless the Albanians emigrated to Romania.



There is no evidence of the substratum in Romanian being Thracian.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reconstructed_Dacian_words#Reconstruction_ from_Romanian_and_Albanian_words

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ro/2/2c/VocabularulReprezentativRom%C3%A2n%C4%83.png

morski
10-22-2011, 09:08 PM
I wouldn't want to speculate. I haven't read enough on the matter. The process you descibed is not all that implausible provided it happened over a long period of time starting as early as VI-VII century AD though.

Ushtari
10-22-2011, 09:12 PM
Impossible to be one sided then,unless the Albanians emigrated to Romania.
So you know better than linguists who have come to these conclusions?




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_reconstructed_Dacian_words#Reconstruction_ from_Romanian_and_Albanian_words
Can you provide me an impartial academic source confirming that the substratum in Romanian is Thracian?

Caeruleus
10-22-2011, 09:21 PM
I wouldn't want to speculate. I haven't read enough on the matter. The process you descibed is not all that implausible provided it happened over a long period of time starting as early as VI-VII century AD though.

Now dont give me the VI-VII century AD here :) Our hungarians "brothers" state that romanians did not set foot in present day Romania until the 14 century :) so lets stick to the original theory here (their theory to be more exact) :D If you come here with 6th century you mess up the whole plan, you know the Greater Hungarian plan and stuff :laugh:

that is definitelly my last post :) promise

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 09:45 PM
So you know better than linguists who have come to these conclusions?

What did the linguists say again? That the Albanian influence was one sided,meaning Romanians didn't have contact with Albanians prior to some Albanian immigration(or ancient thracian substratum).





Can you provide me an impartial academic source confirming that the substratum in Romanian is Thracian?

Will this german book suffice? It was written by http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_C._Polom%C3%A9

"Edgar Charles Polomé (31 July 1920 – 11 March 2000) was a Belgian Indo-Europeanist, and professor of comparative religions and languages at the University of Texas. He studied at the Free University of Brussels from 1938, specializing in Germanic philology."



Book says about the substatum elements having common ancestry in the ancient "balkans"(thracians).

http://img828.imageshack.us/img828/4391/daciah.jpg

http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/2449/dacia2.jpg

Ushtari
10-22-2011, 10:00 PM
What did the linguists say again? That the Albanian influence was one sided,meaning Romanians didn't have contact with Albanians prior to some Albanian immigration(or ancient thracian substratum).
Here read:


What this theory fails to account for, however, is another key aspect of the Albanian language's connection with Latin: its intimate involvement in the development of the Vlach-Romanian language. Linguists have long been aware that Albanian and Romanian have many features in common, in matters of structure, vocabulary and idiom, and that these must have arisen in two ways. First, the 'substratum' of Romanian (that is, the language spoken by the proto-Romanians before they switched to Latin) must have been similar to Albanian; and secondly, there must have been close contact between Albanians and early Romanian-speakers over a long period, involving a shared pastoral life. (Some key elements of the pastoral vocabulary in Romanian are borrowed from Albanian.) The substratum elements include both structural matters, such as the positioning of the definite article as a suffix on the end of the noun, and various elements of primitive Balkan pre-Latin vocabulary, such as copil ('child' in Romanian) or kopil ('bastard child' in Albanian). If the links between the two languages were only at substratum level, this might not imply any geographical proximity - it would merely show that proto-Albanian was similar to other varieties of Illyrian spoken elsewhere. But the pastoral connections do indicate that Albanians and early Romanians lived for a long time in the same (or at least overlapping) areas.

This has some geographical implications. Late Latin developed in two different forms in the Balkans: a coastal variety, which survived as a distinct language (known as Dalmatian) until the end of the nineteenth century, and the form spoken in the interior, which turned into Romanian and Vlach. From place-names it is clear that the coastal form, spoken also in Shkodra and Durres, penetrated some way into the northern Albanian mountains. There are some traces of this variety of Latin in Albanian, but the Albanian language's links with the inland variety of Balkan Latin are much stronger. This suggests that the centre of gravity ofAlbanian-Vlach symbiosis lay a little further to the east.

When and how did that symbiosis take place? Presumably the Latin-speaking proto-Romanians came to pastoralism later than the early Albanians. If they had been doing it for as long as the Albanians, and in similar areas, they would - just like the Albanians - have escaped Latinization altogether. Some historians have decided that the proto-Romanians must have been Latin-speaking city-dwellers, who somehow extricated themselves from their towns in the early Slav centuries and became long-distance travellers or shepherds instead; but this seems inherently implausible. (Had they come from the towns, their Latin would surely have been closer to standard Latin in its structure, too.) There is in fact enough Latin agricultural vocabulary in Romanian -words for sowing, ploughing, harrowing, and so on - to show that they were farming in Roman times. The shift towards pastoralism was probably quite gradual. One particular factor that may have helped to promote it was the practice of horse-breeding, which was, or at least became, a Vlach speciality: the medieval records are full of Vlach muleteers and Vlachs leading caravans of pack-horses. Such an occupation requires contact with towns (where the trade is), and may be combined with some farming in the towns' vicinity; but it also involves a form of stock-breeding, which could have given the early Vlachs an entree into the higher-altitude world of Albanian flocks and herds.

The main area of the Balkan interior where a Latin-speaking population may have continued, in both towns and country, after the Slav invasion, has already been mentioned: it included the upper Morava valley, northern Macedonia, and the whole of Kosovo. It is, therefore, in the uplands of the Kosovo area (particularly, but not only, on the western side, including parts of Montenegro) that this Albanian-Vlach symbiosis probably developed. All the evidence comes together at this point. What it suggests is that the Kosovo region, together with at least part of northern Albania, was the crucial focus of two distinct but interlinked ethnic histories: the survival of the Albanians, and the emergence of the Romanians and Vlachs. One large group of Vlachs seems to have broken away and moved southwards by the ninth or tenth century; the proto-Romanians stayed in contact with Albanians significantly longer, before drifting north-eastwards, and crossing the Danube in the twelfth century.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/8699791/Noel-Malcolm-Origins-Serbs-Albanians-and-Vlachs





Book says about the substatum elements having common ancestry in the ancient "balkans"(thracians).
Its only suppositions, there is no evidence of substratum in Romanian being Dacian or Thracian and its still being discussed whether Albanian is developed from Illyrian or Dacian/Thracian, or whether these languages were closely related or not.

Osweo
10-22-2011, 10:02 PM
Morski do you really believe that some illyrian romanised herders (shepherds) can latinize such a great slavic population (cause according to this theory slavs inhabited present day Romania before the vlachs) and if you believe hungarians they too came to Transylvania before romanians did, so they had to latineze mogyors too. I mean they had to settle in a land populated by warriors, they had to overcome them and assimilate them :) Isnt that to much of a task for a bunch of sheep guards ? :)

Sounds reasonable to me.

* Romanisation wasn't SO complete: you have tons of Slavonic words in your language, and HAD more in the past.

* Slavonic presence in 'Dacia' wasn't so 'great'. It was a disorganised mess of various different peoples and various Slavonic tribelets. Not TOO hard to see how some incomers from the south COULD enforce a new political settlement with themselves as the predominating cultural influence.

* The same model worked all the way along the Carpathians into Moravia, to a lesser extent, with pockets of Vlachs surviving. Not too hard to see how they could have been more successful at the earlier part of this migration.

* Shepherds aren't 'mere sheep guards'. We're talking about hardy groups of men who maintained some sort of strong kinship structure, AND were at least acquainted with southern ideas of statehood and so on. The IE expansion is often phrased in a similar way, with 'warrior-herders' being so successful.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 10:10 PM
Here read:


Nothing wrong,I agree with what is written there,the 1st "proto-romanians"(latinized thracians) were formed in the ancient "Balkans" as result to Roman conquest(the Roman conquests ending with Dacia - modern Romania).



Its only suppositions, there is no evidence of substratum in Romanian being Dacian or Thracian and its still being discussed whether Albanian is developed from Illyrian or Dacian/Thracian, or whether these languages were closely related or not.

The language itself is an evidence and we do have some common words.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 10:35 PM
As far as I know the romanian-albanian language connection resumes to a few tens of words at most. Show me these loans and explain their role? As far as I'm concerned you're just saying Albanians from Albania had no contact with Romanians,unless Albanians emigrated to Romania and influenced the Romanians and the Romanian language.




The substratum shares are there because of the ancient Thracian connection, duh.

Hungarian-Finnish alleged connection resumes to cca. 20 words, of which some are highly questionable, yet it is enough to many to claim that both languages are similar. Why wouldn't Romanian and Albanian also be regarded as similar languages when there are tens of similar words in this case? I believe while Albanian preserved many of the Illyrian language, Romanian is a highly latinized form of Illyrian and Thracian languages and dialects, and has formed in the first millennium south of the Danube.

Unurautare
10-22-2011, 10:55 PM
Hungarian-Finnish alleged connection resumes to cca. 20 words, of which some are highly questionable, yet it is enough to many to claim that both languages are similar. Why wouldn't Romanian and Albanian also be regarded as similar languages when there are tens of similar words in this case? I believe while Albanian preserved many of the Illyrian language, Romanian is a highly latinized form of Illyrian and Thracian languages and dialects, and has formed in the first millennium south of the Danube.

More like the populations were latinized than the languages,the language of the Roman Empire was Vulgar Latin - it's said that Romanian resembles this language more than western Romance languages, you can even see this massive latin influence in the balkan "vlahs"(ex.aromanians) that stopped having a connection with Romanians many hundreds of years ago(or Neacsu's letter that has 175 words of the 190 words in the letter of Latin origin).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanian_language#Comparison_with_Romanian

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3030/201110230156141111.jpg

Sagitta Hungarica
10-22-2011, 11:16 PM
More like the populations were latinized than the languages,the language of the Roman Empire was Vulgar Latin - it's said that Romanian resembles this language more than western Romance languages, you can even see this massive latin influence in the balkan "vlahs"(ex.aromanians) that stopped having a connection with Romanians many hundreds of years ago(or Neacsu's letter that has 175 words of the 190 words in the letter of Latin origin).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromanian_language#Comparison_with_Romanian

http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/3030/201110230156141111.jpg

Here you are right. The Thracian and Illyrian populations who were latinized, became the Vlachs, or Romanians. These populations obviously preserved a few dozen words, if not more from their original languages. But as with the Balkans in Ancient and early Medieval times most of its history is still quite unclear, no theory can be asserted as 100% the truth. Only by elimination we can get closer to the truth, but a partial one at best.

Jake Featherston
10-23-2011, 01:46 AM
I always thought Romania was considered part of the Balkans from the conventional standpoint, but I may have been mistaken.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/14/Balkanpeninsula.png

Volkodav
10-23-2011, 06:52 AM
Imperialistic? You are the Imperialistic.
Transylvania was part of Hungary between 895 and 1920.
Northern Transylvania became part of Hungary again in 1941, but the Soviets gave it to the Vlachs again in 1945.

Transylvania is Hungary.



Bullshit.

The first records about Vlach (Romanian) presence in Transylvania dates back to the 15th century.
Before the 19th century, the Hungarians were the dominant ethnicity in Transylvania.
The transistion from Hungarian majority to Vlach (Romanian) majority was a slow and very gradual shift.

It all began when the Ottomans conquered the Balkans in the 15th century.
The Vlachs (Romanians) were fleeing the Turks.
They found refugee in Transylvania.
While the Hungarians were fighting the Turks, the Vlachs (Romanians) were herding goats and sheep. This way, the Vlach (Romanian) population increased, while the Hungarian population declined.

After the Austrians conquered Hungary and Transylvania, there were several struggles for independence on the Hungarian side. The Hungarians were not so happy with Austrian rule, and there was constant turmoil. However, the Vlachs (Romanians), Serbs and Slovaks were loyal to Austria.
Therefore, the Habsburg Monarchy institutionalized policies which led to the further decline of Hungarian population and increase of Vlach (Romanian) , Serbian and Slovakian population on the expense of the Hungarians.

After the compromise in 1867, the Habsburg Monarchy turned pro-Hungarian, and implemented a policy of Hungarization in Northern Hungary ("Slovakia"), Vojvodina and Transylvania.
The Hungarization of the Slovaks was a success. If the Treaty of Trianon didn't happen, all of the Slovaks would have been fully Hungarized by 1930.
However, the attempts at the Hungarization of Vlachs (Romanians) was a failure. The culture was too different. Even the religion is different.

And this is how it went... between 1490 and 1700, the population of Greater Hungary went from 90% Hungarian to only 45% Hungarian.
Why? Because the Habsburgs invited non-Hungarians to repopulate the lands devastated by the Austrian-Turkish Wars.
Furthermore, 150 years of Ottoman rule - before the Austrian conquest in 1683 - also had severe effects on the Hungarian population. There was famine.

In 1495, Greater Hungary's population was 4,000,000, and 90% of them were Hungarians (3,600,000 Hungarians out of 4,000,000 total population), meaning that the rest 10% (about 400,000 people) were the non-Hungarian minorities.
In 1711, Greater Hungary's population 3,000,000, and only 45% were Hungarians (only 1,350,000 Hungarians out of 3,000,000 people), meaing that the rest 55% (1,650,000 people) were non-Hungarians: Vlachs (Romanians), Serbs, Slovaks and others.

1495: 4,000,000 people, 90% Hungarian
1711: only 3,000,000 people, only 45% Hungarian

The radical change is easy to see.

The Vlachs (Romanians) in Transylvania were the medieval equivalents of the modern-day Immigrants.
They were some dirty immigrants who were exploiting the demand for workforce.

Romanians became majority in Transylvania in he 18th or 19th century.
They came as immigrants.

As you wrote: BULLSHIT, your fake history is nothing more than shite.
Transilvania is the birth place of Moldovans and South Romanians.
READ RUSSIAN HISTORY !!!!!

Daos
10-29-2011, 06:16 AM
As far as geography goes, as it has already been stated, only Dobrogea is in the Balkans. As for culture, there are Serbian and Bulgarian influences throughout the country, mostly in our language. And as for mentality... perhaps those Moldavian and Wallachian untermenschen are Balkanians, but, as a Transylvanian, I consider myself to be a Central European. ಠ_ರೃ


Moldovan architecture is heavily influenced by East Slavic (Russian, Ukrainian) architecture.
Transylvanian Romanians also copied a lot from the Hungarians and Germans.

If you're talking about architecture, you should know that the town buildings were built - paid for - by the wealthy (mostly Hungarians and Germans), so we couldn't really copy anything, we were, however, the ones doing the actual building. Since that was what Romanians were good for, as far as Hungarians were concerned, serfs and lowly workers.

If you're talking about culture and such, believe it or not, Romanians actually learned things from the Hungarians and Germans through interaction, hence the numerous words of Hungarian origin (and some of German) in our local speech. They didn't feel the uncontrollable urge to kill each other whenever they met, as you would like. http://e.deviantart.net/emoticons/c/chainsaw.gif

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 08:19 AM
those Moldavian and Wallachian untermenschen are Balkanians, but, as a Transylvanian,



http://memeshack.com/shitjustgotreal/ShitJustGotReal_1289957788066.jpg




We all come from Transylvania you dumbass slave to hungarians and asslicker of germans aka transylvanian.:coffee:

d3cimat3d
10-29-2011, 08:29 AM
Gagauzes are not Slavs.

Well they do have some Slavic surnames though. Like my mothers last name before marriage was Dragneva (Bulgarian). ;)

Gagauzes are a funny case, Bulgarians want to claim them as their own, so do Turks, but also Moldovans:

38GeKkjDECo

Daos
10-29-2011, 08:29 AM
We all come from Transylvania you dumbass slave to hungarians and asslicker of germans aka transylvanian.:coffee:

Better to be slave for Hungarians and Germans than for Turks!:thumb001:

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 08:32 AM
Better to be slave for Hungarians and Germans than to Turks!:thumb001:

I'm sorry to disappoint you but the slaves to hungarians and germans aka transylvanians were also slaves to turks(even to an albanian). :thumb001:

Caeruleus
10-29-2011, 08:37 AM
Better to be slave for Hungarians and Germans than for Turks!:thumb001:


well, if it isn't the great central european mentality :rolleyes: I've got one thing to say to you mister central european

K4Fs6f-BzN0

oyster
10-29-2011, 08:40 AM
Romania's territory was always exactly between Eastern Europe, Balkans and Central Europe, it is a mix of these and the cities look like that: visit Iasi for an Eastern European feeling, Cluj (Kolozsvar), Brasov (Kronstadt), Sibiu (Hermannstadt) for Central Europe and Bucharest, Constanta (Kostendje) for Balkans. The countryside the same.

I voted partly Balkan for that. The difference is notable also in phenotype traits, not from people to people but from population to population, a broader view let's say (I don't think there is a typical face for any region but when you see a large group you could say they are from here or there based on the dominant traits in the group).

I also don't understand why some Romanians neglect the Balkan thing so much. Wallachia, Oltenia, Dobrudja have always had strong connections to Bulgaria, Greece and even Turkey at times. Of course, it would be harder to name a dweller of Transylvania or Moldavia as Balkanic (although southern Moldavia fully applies for Balkanic imo)

Daos
10-29-2011, 08:42 AM
I'm sorry to disappoint you but the slaves to hungarians and germans aka transylvanians were also slaves to turks(even to an albanian). :thumb001:

Actually, Transylvania went through a golden age during that period (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Transylvania_%281571%E2%80%931711% 29), but I guess the backwards Moldavians and Wallachians don't even know what a golden age is, they've yet to enter the Renaissance... http://e.deviantart.net/emoticons/t/trollface.png

Caeruleus
10-29-2011, 08:45 AM
Well they do have some Slavic surnames though. Like my mothers last name before marriage was Dragneva (Bulgarian). ;)

Gagauzes are a funny case, Bulgarians want to claim them as their own, so do Turks, but also Moldovans:

38GeKkjDECo

Nobody gives two shits about gagauzes and their origin. You obviously have a thing for these turkomans, if you want them you can have them buddy boy :D
and why dont you start a thread about gagauzes and talk there about their oirigins and stuff !?

First time I hear that moldovans (romanians) claim gagauzes to be one of their own.

oyster
10-29-2011, 08:47 AM
Actually, Transylvania went through a golden age during that period (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Transylvania_%281571%E2%80%931711% 29), but I guess the backwards Moldavians and Wallachians don't even know what a golden age is, they've yet to enter the Renaissance... http://e.deviantart.net/emoticons/t/trollface.png

If you were offended by ONE Moldavian you don't have to speak like this. I am from Vaslui county, some name it the most undesirable place in Romania and I personally know PLENTY of Vaslui fellows that are premium citizens of this country. To think you are superior just because you are from Transylvania is a low thing, or to dub ANY Transylvanian superior to ANY Moldavian, the same. You did just like that Atrox guy who when offended names all of us gypsies. Not a very intelligent reaction. Some regions in Moldova are even way more wealthier than some regions in Transylvania but overall Moldova is of course the poorest.

The differences in wealth are anyway small in Romania, as all the country is almost on par at this chapter, unfortunatelly.

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 08:48 AM
well, if it isn't the great central european mentality :rolleyes: I've got one thing to say to you mister central european .

If all are like Daos then opincari batuti de soarta would be the correct term(that's how the germans and hungarians make fun of them).:coffee:

morski
10-29-2011, 08:50 AM
Well they do have some Slavic surnames though. Like my mothers last name before marriage was Dragneva (Bulgarian). ;)

Gagauzes are a funny case, Bulgarians want to claim them as their own, so do Turks, but also Moldovans:

38GeKkjDECo


Well virtually all of the Gaguzes in the former USSR came from what is today Bulgaria and those who are still here are indeed very solid Bulgarians.

d3cimat3d
10-29-2011, 08:51 AM
Nobody gives two shits about gagauzes and their origin.
.

Well it seems people do give two shits about them, because they were talked about on the first few pages of this thread, before I even came.



You obviously have a thing for these turkomans,


:rolleyes:Whatever you say, cigan.

If you don't want me to talk about them then fine, just don't bring them up agian.

oyster
10-29-2011, 08:54 AM
If all are like Daos then opincari batuti de soarta would be the correct term(that's how the germans and hungarians make fun of them).:coffee:

I really don't think you are in the position of making such comments. Let's not get into fight among us. Is it not enough that all Europe hates us and here on the Apricity they are so mean and ignorant in our confronts? Now we don't have to make them believe they are right, not with comments like these we win their respect.

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 08:54 AM
Actually, Transylvania went through a golden age during that period (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Principality_of_Transylvania_%281571%E2%80%931711% 29), but I guess the backwards Moldavians and Wallachians don't even know what a golden age is, they've yet to enter the Renaissance... http://e.deviantart.net/emoticons/t/trollface.png

How can you enter the Renaissance when you're limited to living in a village and not even being allowed to wear ciubote? opincar prost. ;)

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 08:57 AM
I really don't think you are in the position of making such comments. Let's not get into fight among us. Is it not enough that all Europe hates us and here on the Apricity they are so mean and ignorant in our confronts? Now we don't have to make them believe they are right, not with comments like these we win their respect.

I think I am in a position. Lets use the primitive's logic and talk about regionalism:me and you come from a region that gave Romania most(like 99%) of it's intellectuals and great athletes(like Nadia Comaneci),while this shit for brains opincar thinks he is fancy because he was a slave to Germans...OK. :thumb001:

Caeruleus
10-29-2011, 09:04 AM
Daos probably wants to be a german or something. It appears that not only in Rep. of Moldova people forget who they are and where they came from. Too bad that among romanians you can find vermins like that.

@ Bastarnae ... fuck off Bastaerd :) I saw your picture turk :) on the members picture thread you better go back to Ankara Sulejman Pasha.

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 09:07 AM
Forgot to mention,the only reason Transylvania is known at all is because of Wallachians:
1)Iancu de Hunedoara(from Wallachia) and his son Matei Corvin(half-wallachian half-hungarian)
2) Vlad Tepes/Dracula - half wallachian and half moldavian.

Congrats for hating on us and assliking foreigners Daos,you butthurt piece of opincar. :)

Mordid
10-29-2011, 09:08 AM
Daos thinking he wish he were Hitler or something. It appears that not only in Rep. of Moldova people forget who they are and where they came from. Too bad that among romanians you can find vermins like that.
Y'all motherfucker niggers to me, anyway.
@ Bastarnae ... fuck off Bastard :) I saw your picture whitey :) on the members picture thread you better go back to nordic god land.
Fixed.

d3cimat3d
10-29-2011, 09:09 AM
@ Bastarnae ... fuck off Bastaerd :) I saw your picture turk :) on the members picture thread you better go back to Ankara Sulejman Pasha.

Lol my look is the classic Vlach/Thracian look, spiced up a bit with some bad ass Hunnic/Bulgar influence (why don't you post your pic for comparison!?) you did say you look Albanian, lol that's pretty much the same thing as Turkish, so piss off cigan. Gagauzes are the baddest people in the Balkans, while all the others forget they came under the dominance of Turkic nomads and start bending over for Slavs or Germans, Gagauzes still keep it real.

Mordid
10-29-2011, 09:11 AM
Lol my look is the classic Vlach look, spiced up a bit with some bad ass Hunnic/Bulgar influence (why don't you post your pic for comparison) you did say you look Albanian, lol that's pretty much saying you look Turkish, so piss off cigan. Gagauzes are the baddest people in the Balkans, while all the others forget they came under the dominance of Turkic nomads and start bending over for Slavs or Germans, Gagauzes still keep it real.

Wtf you're smoking about, bro? :lol00002:

Caeruleus
10-29-2011, 09:12 AM
Forgot to mention,the only reason Transylvania is known at all is because of Wallachians:
1)Iancu de Hunedoara(from Wallachia) and his son Matei Corvin(half-wallachian half-hungarian)
2) Vlad Tepes/Dracula - half wallachian and half moldavian.

Congrats for hating on us and assliking foreigners Daos,you butthurt piece of opincar. :)

Transylvania was (and is) an important part of Romania, you should not take on a whole region because of one lost sheep that for some reason likes to kiss foreign ass (I guess its the Stockholm syndrome)

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 09:17 AM
Transylvania was (and is) an important part of Romania, you should not take on a whole region because of one lost sheep that for some reason likes to kiss foreign ass (I guess its the Stockholm syndrome)

I agree but my replies were specific to the butthurt ubermensch transylvanians(who were slaves for 1000 years,and I'm talking full on repression not just paying taxes, until we freed them and thus allowing them equal rights and the possibility to move to the city),that although have contributed with virtually nothing to Romanian or European culture,they are of superiority and can afford to say shit about their ethnic kind - being superior beings from across the mountains. :coffee:

Daos
10-29-2011, 09:18 AM
If you were offended by ONE Moldavian you don't have to speak like this.

Actually, I was just making fun. Obviously, after over 65 years of Communist and then Cleptocracy rule Transylvania is just as forsaken as the rest of the country, but it started off much better than the other regions.


I am from Vaslui county, some name it the most undesirable place in Romania and I personally know PLENTY of Vaslui fellows that are premium citizens of this country.

And I am from Maramureș, probably the poorest county in Transylvania.


To think you are superior just because you are from Transylvania is a low thing, or to dub ANY Transylvanian superior to ANY Moldavian, the same.

Well, Moldova was founded by Dragoș (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drago%C5%9F), who was from Maramureș, so we are your superior overlords. http://e.deviantart.net/emoticons/m/mwahaha.gif


The differences in wealth are anyway small in Romania, as all the country is almost on par at this chapter, unfortunatelly.

This is because all wealth goes to Bucharest which distributes it as it sees fit. Obviously Transylvania and, indeed, Maramureș is not they're main concern, but most money come from Transylvania.


If all are like Daos then opincari batuti de soarta would be the correct term(that's how the germans and hungarians make fun of them).:coffee:

If all were like me, we would have broken free from this God-forsaken country long ago!;) Or at least pushed for the formation of a Romanian Federal State... To Hell with Bucharest and the rule of thieves!

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_7SKBX2cPQjo/TUlLCrMxbMI/AAAAAAAAAlw/l1KIw13COSA/s1600/pp3900.jpg

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 09:20 AM
If all were like me, we would have broken free from this God-forsaken country long ago!;) Or at least pushed for the formation of a Romanian Federal State... To Hell with Bucharest and the rule of thieves!



Guess who voted for Boc and Basescu,cei care au facut din Romania ultima tara din UE,opincar prost si corupt.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d6/Alegeri_prezidentiale_2009_turul_I_regiuni.png

Mordid
10-29-2011, 09:23 AM
landa is my romanian wifey

Daos
10-29-2011, 09:28 AM
Guess who voted for Boc and Basescu,cei care au facut din Romania ultima tara din UE,opincar prost si corupt.

I'm not quite sure what you're trying to prove here, you drunk, unwashed son-of-a-turkish-whore Moldavian...

First of all, I didn't vote for any of them, I cancelled my vote in protest. Second of all, do you honestly believe our country would have been better if someone else won the elections?:laugh:

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 09:32 AM
I'm not quite sure what you're trying to prove here, you drunk, unwashed son-of-a-turkish-whore Moldavian...

Funny,coming from an imbecile that's quite a good effort.


First of all, I didn't vote for any of them, I cancelled my vote in protest. Second of all, do you honestly believe our country would have been better if someone else won the elections?:laugh:

This is not about some butthurt idiot(you) and his life,look at the map again. :) "Second of all" Romania was ahead of Bulgaria and some Baltic countries before Basescu and Boc came to power(not the very last),now it's the last,I'm not gonna "what if",I'm talking about statistical facts.

Daos
10-29-2011, 09:36 AM
This is not about some butthurt idiot(you) and his life,look at the map again. :) "Second of all" Romania was ahead of Bulgaria and some Baltic countries before Basescu and Boc came to power(not the very last),now it's the last,I'm not gonna "what if",I'm talking about statistical facts.

Again, what does this have to do with what we were „discussing” earlier?:confused: Lay off the booze and try again.

Caeruleus
10-29-2011, 09:38 AM
Lol my look is the classic Vlach/Thracian look, spiced up a bit with some bad ass Hunnic/Bulgar influence (why don't you post your pic for comparison!?) you did say you look Albanian, lol that's pretty much the same thing as Turkish, so piss off cigan. Gagauzes are the baddest people in the Balkans, while all the others forget they came under the dominance of Turkic nomads and start bending over for Slavs or Germans, Gagauzes still keep it real.

You are really delusional boy, you better take you medicine before you go into seagures. :)

Vlach/Thracian look ? :laugh2:

I already posted my pics for classification. I said that I look albanian because I'm a dinarid and thats the mane race in Albania. Albanians are called turkomans for betraying christian faith and not for their looks you dumbass.

As for your race ask Mordid what you are and where would you fit :)

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 09:40 AM
Again, what does this have to do with what we were „discussing” earlier?:confused: Lay off the booze and try again.

It does have,because you just said "fuck off politics from Bucharest" but it was the people from your area that gave(Boc in particular) and voted the politicians. So you're either mentally retarded or what?

Daos
10-29-2011, 09:49 AM
It does have,because you just said "fuck off politics from Bucharest" but it was the people from your area that gave(Boc in particular) and voted the politicians.

It all started with this premise:


If all are like Daos

Did it not? Since not all Transylvanians aren't like me, all your later comments and insults are redundant.



So you're either mentally retarded or what?

Why don't you crawl back to your little Turkish hovel and leave us civilised people talk?

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 09:52 AM
It all started with this premise:
Did it not? Since not all Transylvanians aren't like me, all your later comments and insults are redundant.

Because you generalized about Wallachians and Moldavians in the 1st place as being subhuman balkanoids? :thumb001:





Why don't you crawl back to your little Turkish hovel and leave us civilised people talk?

Civilized in your area means only hungarian or german,opincar. ;)

d3cimat3d
10-29-2011, 09:55 AM
dbl post

d3cimat3d
10-29-2011, 09:56 AM
I already posted my pics for classification. I said that I look albanian because I'm a dinarid and thats the mane race in Albania. Albanians are called turkomans for betraying christian faith and not for their looks you dumbass.

You don't have a clue, do you? Albanians are not like all the other Balkanians, they are pulling towards Turkey (http://spittoon.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/novembreblogpostfig.jpg) more than the others.



As for your race ask Mordid what you are and where would you fit :)

Mordid has in the past said I look Balkan, Serbian - isn't that right Mordid? Anyways I don't care about Nord worshipping like you do, if I wanted to impress people on Apricity I would of taken a picture outdoors with the sun, so my hair looks lighter & etc. , but guess what, I'm not some loser like you with inferiority complex and I'm perfectly content with being swarthy + my parents were two black sheep of their families and they gave me some dark looks, but who cares, girls love it! :tongue

+ there's a thing called genetics, that shows I'm clearly Euro (http://i56.tinypic.com/6f81th.jpg).

So... some schooling about genetics for you, that will be 30 ban for the lesson (if you can afford it, Mr. Moldovan cigan).

Ushtari
10-29-2011, 10:14 AM
You don't have a clue, do you? Albanians are not like all the other Balkanians, they are pulling towards Turkey (http://spittoon.23andme.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/09/novembreblogpostfig.jpg) more than the others.
Dont make me call Mordid aka Agrippa 2.0

Caeruleus
10-29-2011, 10:15 AM
@Bastarnae: take a look at the Albanians thread and see what they look like dummy

from what i've seen you may pass as a bulgarian (thats a turkoman bulgarian, not a true bulgarian) but not a serb :) I suppose you are a gagauz that explains your obsession with gagauzes and gagauz origin.

I'm not a nordicist, never been one and never will.

Tabiti
10-29-2011, 10:18 AM
What so wrong with the Balkans? Good neighbours, world culture, chaste women, polite gentlemen, good music, best social status in Europe, no corruption, no muslims, no gypsies. It's great to be from the Balkans!

d3cimat3d
10-29-2011, 10:18 AM
@Bastarnae: take a look at the Albanians thread and see what they look like dummy

from what i've seen you may pass as a bulgarian (thats a turkoman bulgarian, not a true bulgarian) but not a serb :) I suppose you are a gagauz that explains your obsession with gagauzes and gagauz origin.

I'm not a nordicist, never been one and never will.

My point was, don't insult your fellow swarthies, you seem like you are one too:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=534164#post534164

:D

I didn't see your pictures, but judging from the responses you look something like this Moldovan, but much more... alive? :D

http://i43.tinypic.com/2zg6mo5.jpg

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 10:20 AM
My point was, don't insult your fellow swarthies, you seem like you are one too:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=534164#post534164

:D

You are considered a 'nigger' in Russia,da?

Ushtari
10-29-2011, 10:21 AM
You are considered a 'nigger' in Russia,da?
http://www.2minds1brain.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/John-Kreese.jpg

d3cimat3d
10-29-2011, 10:23 AM
You are considered a 'nigger' in Russia,da?

I was considered "chorni" (black).. but Russian standards are very high, you have to look like Dolp Lundgren otherwise you're considered swarthy. :tongue Oh well.

Ushtari
10-29-2011, 10:24 AM
What so wrong with the Balkans? Good neighbours, world culture, chaste women, polite gentlemen, good music, best social status in Europe, no corruption, no muslims, no gypsies. It's great to be from the Balkans!
http://nyheter24.se/incoming/article414339.ece/ALTERNATES/img514x344/26325096_7845eaa045.jpg

Loki
10-29-2011, 10:26 AM
What does it matter if Romania is a Balkan country or not? It's just a geographical definition and there are different viewpoints on it anyway.

Ushtari
10-29-2011, 10:31 AM
http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/6411/pontid.jpg

It seems like we got ourselves a nigger here...

Caeruleus
10-29-2011, 10:39 AM
My point was, don't insult your fellow swarthies, you seem like you are one too:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?p=534164#post534164

:D

I didn't see your pictures, but judging from the responses you look something like this Moldovan, but much more... alive? :D

http://i43.tinypic.com/2zg6mo5.jpg

hahahha very funny :rolleyes:

if this guy is swarthy then I'm swarthy too

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_ODsGubolXoM/S_VuMectMQI/AAAAAAAAAio/W0dsI_3Q_30/s1600/gerard_butler-playlist.jpg

Same hair color, same skin tone, same eye color, same height, same body build ... I'm not as handsome and rich as he is but thats not the point :)

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 10:41 AM
What does it matter if Romania is a Balkan country or not? It's just a geographical definition and there are different viewpoints on it anyway.

It's a cultural concept. I made this thread because there was a discussion on the chat room and also because I was curious to see what foreigners perceive - as I saw the vote is 50/50 so far(I consider one vote cancelled because a bulgarian choose "Romania? Balkans?).
I don't wanna generalize but I think most Romanians don't really care and would probably choose "balkan only in parts" because we at the place in Europe where the major cultures collide(we had both eastern,western and southern influences in history ).

oyster
10-29-2011, 10:46 AM
Romania in the spotlight :D

Matilda
10-29-2011, 10:55 AM
I'm from north west of Romania and I don't feel balkan, I don't feel latin/romanic and I don't even feel romanian.

morski
10-29-2011, 10:59 AM
I'm from north west of Romania and I don't feel balkan, I don't feel latin and I don't even feel romanian.

You-krainian?:)

Matilda
10-29-2011, 11:00 AM
You-krainian?:)

No

oyster
10-29-2011, 11:05 AM
So 57% say Romania is not Balkanic or it is in small part and 43% that it is. Interesting to observe that the Balkanic users all think (or want that) Romania is fully Balkan.

There is a Balkan vergonha, no doubt! (generalized sentiment of inferiority and shame of belonging to a specific - usually ethnical - group)

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 11:09 AM
I'm from north west of Romania and I don't feel balkan, I don't feel latin and I don't even feel romanian.

Those are mainly cultural concepts(eventually even a South American might feel he is or not latin),except for feeling Romanian(either one is or is not).

oyster
10-29-2011, 11:12 AM
Those are mainly cultural concepts(eventually even a South American might feel he is or not latin),except for feeling Romanian(either one is or is not).

True that.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-29-2011, 11:25 AM
I think I am in a position. Lets use the primitive's logic and talk about regionalism:me and you come from a region that gave Romania most(like 99%) of it's intellectuals and great athletes(like Nadia Comaneci),while this shit for brains opincar thinks he is fancy because he was a slave to Germans...OK. :thumb001:

Actually the Transilvanian Romanians educated all your Moldavian intellectuals. The same goes for the Romanians in Wallachia. Does Scoala Ardeleana ring any bell to you? It is incredible how ignorant some of the Romanians here are about their own history.

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 11:29 AM
Actually the Transilvanian Romanians educated all your Moldavian intellectuals. The same goes for the Romanians in Wallachia. Does Scoala Ardeleana ring any bell to you? It is incredible how ignorant some of the Romanians here are about their own history.

Again a hungarian talking about Romanians makes me feel like someone from Congo is telling me how things really are in Bucharest. :thumb001:
Actually most Wallachians and Moldavians(99% of the intellectuals) went to France or Germany for education.
Scoala Ardeleana is a irrelevant for non-transylvanians,they promoted full latin origin of the Romanians while it's only really known member is Ion Budai Deleanu.

oyster
10-29-2011, 11:31 AM
Actually the Transilvanian Romanians educated all your Moldavian intellectuals. The same goes for the Romanians in Wallachia. Does Scoala Ardeleana ring any bell to you? It is incredible how ignorant some of the Romanians here are about their own history.

And you as ignorant as them. Scoala Ardeleana was an ultranationalistic bunch of liars ashamed of their Eastern condition who were dreaming of a glorious but fake past and came up with a lot of lies about Romanian origins. Surprinsingly, most Romanians still retains this group's ideas... People prefer beautiful lies, right?

And in the matter of Transylvania, I support schooling in Hungarian and all the others and I also know that Transylvania was more than 1000 years Hungarian soil, but this won't make me disconsider the fact that Romanian ethnics are the far dominant group there now.

Just to end it, I dislike nationalisms of any kind, including my own people's. But trying to be so neutral I see everybody gets onto you.

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 11:41 AM
And you as ignorant as them. Scoala Ardeleana was an ultranationalistic bunch of liars ashamed of their Eastern condition who were dreaming of a glorious but fake past and came up with a lot of lies about Romanian origins. Surprinsingly, most Romanians still retains this group's ideas... People prefer beautiful lies, right?

And in the matter of Transylvania, I support schooling in Hungarian and all the others and I also know that Transylvania was more than 1000 years Hungarian soil, but this won't make me disconsider the fact that Romanian ethnics are the far dominant group there now.

Just to end it, I dislike nationalisms of any kind, including my own people's. But trying to be so neutral I see everybody gets onto you.

Se pare ca unii ardeleni au mentalitate de sclavi,nu ne disconsidera doar pe noi "miticii"/"regateii" dar se desconsidera mai ales pe ei - in Sibiu(oras majoritar roman) partidul germanilor iese castigator la alegeri.
Nu-mi convine ca trebuie sa ma iau la balcanisme cu un frustrat din Ardeal care ataca neprovocat thread-ul facut de mine,faca nici macar sa citeasca ce am scris. Frustrati rau oamenii de pe acolo,timp de 1000 de ani au fost robi si acum si-au gasit unii sa spuna ca sunt turc sau sa ma injure de balcani de parca asta ar sterge cu buretele ca au stat in sapa de lemn timp de un mileniu. :coffee:

Caeruleus
10-29-2011, 11:47 AM
Daos nu este nimic altceva decat un taran mancurtizat, mancurtul fiind cel care isi uita originile si neamul.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-29-2011, 12:04 PM
And you as ignorant as them. Scoala Ardeleana was an ultranationalistic bunch of liars ashamed of their Eastern condition who were dreaming of a glorious but fake past and came up with a lot of lies about Romanian origins. Surprinsingly, most Romanians still retains this group's ideas... People prefer beautiful lies, right?

And in the matter of Transylvania, I support schooling in Hungarian and all the others and I also know that Transylvania was more than 1000 years Hungarian soil, but this won't make me disconsider the fact that Romanian ethnics are the far dominant group there now.

Just to end it, I dislike nationalisms of any kind, including my own people's. But trying to be so neutral I see everybody gets onto you.

I agree with you, if it wasn't for Scoala Ardeleana, probably there wouldn't be a Romania as we know it today. They were the biggest militants of the union of all lands populated by Vlachs, such trends were barely existent in Moldova and Wallachia. However to reject totally the major effect this intellectual school had over these two mentioned regions, and the rise of their intellectual circles is very narrow minded. Quote from wiki:


The Transylvanian School had a notable impact in the Romanian culture of both Transylvania, but also of the Romanians living across the Carpathians, in Wallachia and Moldavia, leading to the National awakening of Romania.

The Transylvanian School created the current phonetic system of the Romanian alphabet based on the Latin alphabet, largely derived from the Italian and the French alphabets. This replaced the use of the medieval Romanian Cyrillic alphabetas well as the previously Latin alphabet based phonetic system which had been based on the Hungarian alphabet. Another notable contribution of the Transylvanian School was the usage of the first French and Italian neologisms.

In 1895, the famous French historian Alfred Rambaud, had written that the awakening at Romanians happened first on a cultural-spiritual terrain, throughout the Scoala Ardeleana, throughout the national schools from Iasi and Bucharest, lead by Gheorghe Asachi and Gheorghe Lazar (he was Transylvanian, founder of the first Romanian language school), than in a second stage, this awakening materialized politically. Also the biggest Moldavian poet, Mihai Eminescu was educated by Transylvanian Aron Pumnul. If you praise yourself so neutral than you should consider the high importance Transylvanian Romanians had on Romanian culture, education, language, politics, national identity, a decisive one I would add.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-29-2011, 12:10 PM
Again a hungarian talking about Romanians makes me feel like someone from Congo is telling me how things really are in Bucharest. :thumb001:
Actually most Wallachians and Moldavians(99% of the intellectuals) went to France or Germany for education.
Scoala Ardeleana is a irrelevant for non-transylvanians,they promoted full latin origin of the Romanians while it's only really known member is Ion Budai Deleanu.

Quote from Romanian wiki:


Reprezentanții cei mai notabili au fost: Petru Maior, Samuil Micu, Gheorghe Șincai, Ion Budai Deleanu.

How pathetic you to deny your notable intellectuals from Transylvania. I repeat, it is alarming how some Romanians users here don't know important facts about their own history. However they are the ones who try to teach other users about their nation's histories. What is this if not major hypocrisy? :rolleyes:

Caeruleus
10-29-2011, 12:11 PM
This should end any discussions about wether Romania is a balcanic country or not :D

PD6MzlP8ge8

Holograf (romanian rock band) - I'm a balkanic

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 12:15 PM
@Sagitta Hungarica Why don't you praise my people then because the 1st Bible translated in Hungarian appeared in medieval Moldavia(Romanian Moldova)? start worshiping:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu%C5%9Fi#Hungarian_history_of_Hu.C5.9Fi


According to some historians Huşi was established by hussite refugees from the Hungarian Kingdom in the 15th century. The town itself has a significant role in Hungarian history because the first Hungarian Bible translation was written in Huşi. Its copies can be found in the Vienna-codex and Apor-codex.

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 12:20 PM
Holograf (romanian rock band) - I'm a balkanic

No offense but that guy knows how to be balkanic like I know how to be japanese. ;) The only ones that I've seen use balkanic are TV morons from Pr0tv,they also think being latin means "hot latino blood"(sange fierbinte :rolleyes:). While an italian or another European latin would facepalm at the definition.
Even with our closest Balkan neighbor,Bulgaria,we hardly have any contact or cooperation tbh, this has been said to me by Bulgarians,or maybe that's like a balkan thing itself? xD

Daos
10-29-2011, 12:36 PM
Se pare ca unii ardeleni au mentalitate de sclavi,nu ne disconsidera doar pe noi "miticii"/"regateii" dar se desconsidera mai ales pe ei - in Sibiu(oras majoritar roman) partidul germanilor iese castigator la alegeri.

Why vote for a Romanian charlatan when Klaus Johannis proved to be a competent mayor?:confused: I would love for my town to be as developed and well maintained as Sibiu, but that's just me, you Moldavians are probably too used to living in filth...:laugh:

Sagitta Hungarica
10-29-2011, 12:40 PM
@Sagitta Hungarica Why don't you praise my people then because the 1st Bible translated in Hungarian appeared in medieval Moldavia(Romanian Moldova)? start worshiping:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hu%C5%9Fi#Hungarian_history_of_Hu.C5.9Fi

Again a childish argumentation, which has no relevance on the topic we were talking about. But if you mentioned this event, I should also tell the real historical context. Huszváros, in you language Husi, was founded by Hungarian Hussites, who fled Hungary from persecution. This translation was created by Újlaki Bálint and Pécsi Tamás, and only 18 books from the Old Testament, and the 4 Gospels had preserved to us, in different codex collections. However the first full Bible translation into Hungarian, that we are sure today belongs to Báthory László from the Order of Saint Paul.

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 12:40 PM
Why vote for a Romanian charlatan when Klaus Johannis proved to be a competent mayor?:confused: I would love for my town to be as developed and well maintained as Sibiu, but that's just me, you Moldavians are probably too used to living in filth...:laugh:

Because people like you are slaves,with slave mentality,I suppose that's what the people in Sibiu are.
The most appreciated mayor,and current mayor, of Brasov(Kronstadt) is from Moldova. May you live forever,spart(ule)an. :)

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 12:43 PM
Again a childish argumentation, which has no relevance on the topic we were talking about. But if you mentioned this event, I should also tell the real historical context. Huszváros, in you language Husi, was founded by Hungarian Hussites, who fled Hungary from persecution. This translation was created by Újlaki Bálint and Pécsi Tamás, and only 18 books from the Old Testament, and the 4 Gospels had preserved to us, in different codex collections. However the first full Bible translation into Hungarian, that we are sure today belongs to Báthory László from the Order of Saint Paul.

It has,it proves you are a butthurt with double standards. Anyway the fact is that current Romanian might as well be written in cyrilic it makes no difference to the culture,just like Poland is still slavic despite they use a latin alphabet. Transylvanians might as well have not existed after we wallachians and moldavians left Transylvania as far as I'm concerned.
Again as a Romanian I know this things better than you ever will,so if I don't tell you how things really are in Budapest don't try to blable your ignorant mind about how things really are in Bucharest.

Sylvanus
10-29-2011, 01:10 PM
I think Romania specific thing but the romanian folk music have many balkanic features.

OMgEl8mrzYQ

Guapo
10-29-2011, 01:13 PM
I think Romania specific thing but the romanian folk music have many balkanic features.

So does Hungarian folk


OMgEl8mrzYQ

Whoa,thats some crazy dance moves :blink::ohwell:

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 01:15 PM
I think Romania specific thing but the romanian folk music have many balkanic features.


I doubt Calusarii would,since it's from Moldova(point in case - Guapo has no idea what that is). Anyway the specific "folk music" in the area appeared in the XIX century,if I'm not mistaken,it's most likely "copy-pasted" stuff(just like "modern" music).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C%C4%83lu%C5%9Fari#Similar_dances


Similar dances

Other male group dances originating from ritual dances are found along the Carpathians and in Transylvania. The Carpathian variants such as Trilişeşti and Ţânţăroiul from Moldavia and Bărbătescul and De sărit from Maramureş include only the most basic features whereas the De bâtă, Haidău, and Fecioreasca of Transylvania are very close to the Căluşari with the addition of more complex later developments.

The dance resembles the English Morris dance, in choreography, the meaning of the ritualistic sword dance, and the costumes, and some claim it was borrowed from Dacia to western Europe (Spain, later England) via the Celts or the Goths or it was borrowed from the Dacian auxiliary units stationed in Britain.

Nurzat
10-29-2011, 01:16 PM
I think Romania specific thing but the romanian folk music have many balkanic features.

this dance is exclusively specific to south of the south, near the danube. they are highly appreciated but i don't trust all these new revived traditions, i guess authentic folklore is more rare and harder to find and possibly the same as unappealing as this fake folk

ps. lol @ the fights around

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 01:26 PM
this dance is exclusively specific to south of the south, near the danube. they are highly appreciated but i don't trust all these new revived traditions, i guess authentic folklore is more rare and harder to find and possibly the same as unappealing as this fake folk


Romanians have a specific folclor in general,I'm not talking about the 'fake songs' or 'real songs' but more like the customs found only at Romanians like Ignat day or Mascatii etc. No balkan or other non-romanian group has our specific traditions.


ps. lol @ the fights around

Someone somehow you just know some idiot has to come and insult people out of the blue,and start a fight to show everybody what a moron he is,because he has to -> Daos.

Sylvanus
10-29-2011, 02:03 PM
Romanians have a specific folclor in general,I'm not talking about the 'fake songs' or 'real songs' but more like the customs found only at Romanians like Ignat day or Mascatii etc. No balkan or other non-romanian group has our specific traditions. .

I know that a bit off-topic, but please, post you some other samples to romanian folk.

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 03:26 PM
I know that a bit off-topic, but please, post you some other samples to romanian folk.

With pleasure. It's not off-topic at all. :) I'll post some romanian folk later if you don't mind,I'm a bit busy right now.

Volkodav
10-29-2011, 04:35 PM
Why vote for a Romanian charlatan when Klaus Johannis proved to be a competent mayor?:confused: I would love for my town to be as developed and well maintained as Sibiu, but that's just me, you Moldavians are probably too used to living in filth...:laugh:
Why speak romenian when you can speak english.

Toate ca toate, fiecare cu mizeria lui, dar cel puţin aici nu-s ciorile voastre şi nici bozgorii pe care voi îi lăsaţi să vă umilească în toate felurile. Desigur aveţi multe de învăţat de la prietenii voştri mai ales curajul lor: "neamţul cînd îl vede, fuge" după cum este şi-n melodie.
jDUAhKeOLUA

Daos
10-29-2011, 04:36 PM
I know that a bit off-topic, but please, post you some other samples to romanian folk.

You can find all you want here (www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=15495). :)


Someone somehow you just know some idiot has to come and insult people out of the blue,and start a fight to show everybody what a moron he is,because he has to -> Daos.

What's the matter Unuboutare? You only like it when you troll other people's threads? :naughty2:

Mordid
10-29-2011, 04:43 PM
Mordid has in the past said I look Balkan, Serbian - isn't that right Mordid?
I don't think you look Serbian, but yes, you look like you could be Balkans.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-29-2011, 04:55 PM
Why speak romenian when you can speak english.

Toate ca toate, fiecare cu mizeria lui, dar cel puţin aici nu-s ciorile voastre şi nici bozgorii pe care voi îi lăsaţi să vă umilească în toate felurile. Desigur aveţi multe de învăţat de la prietenii voştri mai ales curajul lor: "neamţul cînd îl vede, fuge" după cum este şi-n melodie.
jDUAhKeOLUA


Noun

bozgor m (plural bozgori; feminine equivalent bozgoroaică)

(slang, vulgar, pejorative) a Hungarian, Magyar


Do the admins let Hungarians insulted publicly? This is typical Romanian trickery behavior, writing in their language, thinking they can insult Hungarians without anybody to notice. It is a very aggressive insult against Hungarians, which shouldn't be tolerated on a site which is dedicated for European preservation.

Volkodav
10-29-2011, 05:07 PM
Do the admins let Hungarians insulted publicly? This is typical Romanian trickery behavior, writing in their language, thinking they can insult Hungarians without anybody to notice. It is a very aggressive insult against Hungarians, which shouldn't be tolerated on a site which is dedicated for European preservation.

Da, you own the internet , we must follow the rules :clap2:
Ia dont even read the magyar part, please do the same and dont read the romenian part. The rest of you can use gugle translator, ty dura vengerski suka

Sagitta Hungarica
10-29-2011, 05:39 PM
Da, you own the internet , we must follow the rules :clap2:
Ia dont even read the magyar part, please do the same and dont read the romenian part. The rest of you can use gugle translator, ty dura vengerski suka

So chauvinism is allowed, just because it is the "Romanian section" :eek:

Actually, this thread is in the general section, of History & Genesis sub-forum, so on what do you base that Romanians have a privilege to insult Hungarians here?

Unurautare
10-29-2011, 05:43 PM
So chauvinism is allowed, just because it is the "Romanian section" :eek:

Actually, this thread is in the general section, of History & Genesis sub-forum, so on what do you base that Romanians have a privilege to insult Hungarians here?

What are you gonna bitch about next? honestly I see hungarian men are more bitchy than most women I saw,get a life and stop being off-topic to talk about your issues and how you feel,it's not a counseling room.

turbogirl
10-29-2011, 11:16 PM
I'm from north west of Romania and I don't feel balkan, I don't feel latin/romanic and I don't even feel romanian.

If you don't feel romanian, you must be something else. I'm just half icelandic, but I feel like one to the bones, even if I live in U.S. now. And I also love romanians, dunno why some of you look down to your own kind :confused:! Maybe because of that sort of behaviour your country deserve its fate :mad:! When you guys gonna learn to respect your own country and your own kin, no matter where they came from, only then you'll be a normal country and only then you'll start to develope your own minds and your economy.

Sagitta Hungarica
10-30-2011, 12:48 AM
I am quite surprised about the tolerance anti-Hungarian messages get on this forum. This seems a general trend on all self-declared European and White preservationists forums.