Which major Romance language sounds least like the others, to you?

[Sikeliot]

Portuguese, Spanish, French, Italian, Romanian? I've made similar threads but never this one.

Counting the European variants only, that is. Which one sounds most deviant from the others?

My pick is either French or Portuguese.. I think Italian, Romanian, and Spanish are all similar sounding.

[Fra Baldracco]

Could you please explain it better?

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Romanian does stand out from the Romance languages, having many Slavic words, but also an archaic Illyriand and Thracian substratum. Spanish, Italian, Catalan are very close to each other, while Portuguese coming close to them, and even French has more in common to them than Romanian.

[Sikeliot]

This is going strictly by sound, mind you.

[Sikeliot]

Going by sound only, Portuguese and French sound more deviant from Spanish and Italian than Romanian does.

French; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s48X0qywR0M
Portuguese; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej-JRjpKJIU
Romanian; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhR8x9ZgWnI

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Going by sound only, Portuguese and French sound more deviant from Spanish and Italian than Romanian does.

French; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s48X0qywR0M
Portuguese; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej-JRjpKJIU
Romanian; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhR8x9ZgWnI

You have a point there, but I hear more Latin in both Portuguese and French than in Romanian.

[Sikeliot]

You have a point there, but I hear more Latin in both Portuguese and French than in Romanian.

Overall definitely.. besides if you see Spanish, Portuguese, Italian and French written down you can see that Romanian deviates most lexically.

[Sagitta Hungarica]

Overall definitely.. besides if you see Spanish, Portuguese, Italian and French written down you can see that Romanian deviates most lexically.

Yes, in written form the big 4 Romance languages from the South-West are strikingly similar, maybe French stands out somewhat. Romanian sounds more similar to them than it looks similar to them in written form, but still I find it quite distant from them overall.

[Caeruleus]

I as a romanian understand italian and spanish.I dont speak it but I understand certain words, expressions). I can repeat entire sentences without any problem. French is a little bit trickier (but I do speak the language so it doesn't sound that strange to me) Portuguese is by far the most difficult to understand.

Portuguese

[Damião de Góis]

French hardly sounds latin.

[Incal]

French. It's the only one from the Romance family that doesn't sound virile.

[Sikeliot]

Anyone else?

[Peyrol]

Portuguese from Portugal.

Brasilian portuguese is more understandable.

[Sikeliot]

Portuguese from Portugal.

Brasilian portuguese is more understandable.

Not for me it's not :lol: But from the perspective of an Italian or Spanish speaker then yes I would think so.

[Peyrol]

Anyway, for me easier romance languages to understand are, in order:

-Catalan and Sardinian
-Provencal
-Rioplatense castillian
-Spanish castillian
-French
-Standard romanian
-Brasilian portuguese
-Portuguese from Portugal

[Sikeliot]

Anyway, for me easier romance languages to understand are, in order:

-Catalan and Sardinian
-Provencal
-Rioplatense castillian
-Spanish castillian
-French
-Standard romanian
-Brasilian portuguese
-Portuguese from Portugal


I don't understand French when spoken at all. But I can read it better than Romanian.

[Damião de Góis]

Anyway, for me easier romance languages to understand are, in order:

-Catalan and Sardinian
-Provencal
-Rioplatense castillian
-Spanish castillian
-French
-Standard romanian
-Brasilian portuguese
-Portuguese from Portugal

To me it's something like this:

-Argentinian castillian
-Spanish castillian
-Italian
-Catalan
-French
-Romanian

[Sikeliot]

To me it's something like this:

-Argentinian castillian
-Spanish castillian
-Italian
-Catalan
-French
-Romanian


You understand spoken French better than Romanian? :eek:

I can't understand a single word of spoken French. Written it's different though.

[gold_fenix]

Easy to understand
Portuguese
Italian altough is higly variable according to zone of Italy
Portuguese(brazilian)
French

[Damião de Góis]

You understand spoken French better than Romanian? :eek:

I can't understand a single word of spoken French. Written it's different though.

Of course, but that is probably because i have French TV channels and studied it school. On the other hand i never had any contact with Romanian language.

[Sikeliot]

Of course, but that is probably because i have French TV channels and studied it school. On the other hand i never had any contact with Romanian language.

I never studied French in school so maybe that's why. When I hear Romanian I can at least pick out words here and there but with French it all sounds garbled and incomprehensible to me.

[Laubach]

of these languages ​​I just do not speak Romanian, but I can understand something. I must say I have some difficulty understanding the Portuguese of Portugal. They have some Portuguese I can understand them better when they speak in Spanish, for example, than in Portuguese.

Catalan, I can not speak, but I understand almost everything that is written, so I say the same to the Provençal and Galician.

because I do not speak Romanian, I say that to me is more complicated.

[Sikeliot]

My predictions were right.. Spanish and Italian to most sound what a Romance language "should" sound like, and one of the other three sounds the most different.

[gold_fenix]

well Italian is the second romance languaje near to latin, the first is the dialect of Corcega

[Unurautare]

Romanian: Cu carne de vacă nu se moare de foame.
Portuguese: Com carne da vaca não os more da fome.

I hope I didn't write anything wrong.

Both written and spoken French gets my vote(I can understand it better than Spanish but that's only because I studied French at school).

[Logan]

Francais

[Sikeliot]

I'll go with French, too.

[Damião de Góis]

Romanian: Cu carne de vacă nu se moare de foame.
Portuguese: Com carne da vaca não os more da fome.


Com carne de vaca não se morre de fome ?

(With cow meat one doesn't die of hunger)

Looks very similar indeed. Much more than i expected to be honest. I guess on spoken mode it's different. I saw a video on another thread with a romanian weather girl, and i only got a few words.

[Unurautare]

Com carne de vaca não se morre de fome ?

(With cow meat one doesn't die of hunger)

Looks very similar indeed. Much more than i expected to be honest. I guess on spoken mode it's different. I saw a video on another thread with a romanian weather girl, and i only got a few words.

I guess it's because we use very different accents. Written it's easy for me to read Portuguese but spoken it's another story. Same thing with Romanian vs. Romanian dialects,written they look 99% the same but when I heard Aromanian I can't understand much of it because of their accent.

[Sebastianus Rex]

Portuguese and spanish are very related, it's mostly a question of pronunciation, many words are the same. Portuguese and spanish understand easily each other. Italian is also close to these languages, many words are the same. It's a little bit more dificult but portuguese and spanish can comunicate with italians also, a lot it's understood.

French and romanian are clearly more distant to those three due to the pronunciation.

Portuguese is more difficult to understand for the spanish and italians than it is for portuguese to understand them, because it's more gutural, less melodic. Portuguese spoken in Brazil is very melodic and soft compared to our accent.

[Unurautare]

Going by sound only, Portuguese and French sound more deviant from Spanish and Italian than Romanian does.

French; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s48X0qywR0M
Portuguese; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej-JRjpKJIU
Romanian; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhR8x9ZgWnI

I don't think the videos are that good for latin speakers that have never heard each other before. The French and Romanian seem too stressed as if they had to hurry to the toilet or something like that. :D

Out of curiosity Clementina,how does this Romanian video seem compared to the one you gave?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LY7sq9cvIK4

[Sebastianus Rex]

Romanian: Cu carne de vacă nu se moare de foame.
Portuguese: Com carne da vaca não os more da fome.

I hope I didn't write anything wrong.

Both written and spoken French gets my vote(I can understand it better than Spanish but that's only because I studied French at school).

Romanian: Cu carne de vacă nu se moare de foame.
Portuguese: Com carne de vaca não se morre de fome.
Spanish: Con carne de vaca no se muere de hambre.
Italian: Con la carne di vacca no si mori di fame.
French: Avec la viande de vache ne se muere pas de faim.

My answer is FRENCH.:D

[Sikeliot]

Sounds relatively the same.. kind of like a Slavicized Italian

[Unurautare]

Sounds relatively the same.. kind of like a Slavicized Italian


The video is from Republica Moldova,hence the journalist is a Russian type and has a Russian accent,but the one interviewed speaks "clean Romanian".

EDIT: didn't watch the full video,skipped some,seems the girl interviewed has some Russian accent on some words too. xP

[Sebastianus Rex]

I understand some romanian, but when they talk too fast i'm lost.

I understand and speak the other romance languages (spanish better than the others), i guess romanian won't be too difficult to learn.

[rhiannon]

Probably Romanian.

[Jake Featherston]

I haven't heard enough spoken Romanian to judge that Latin dialect in any meaningful sense, but French sounds very distinct from the Italo-Iberian tongues. I suspect it has a stronger Celtic influence than the others.

[Han Cholo]

Romansch:

5Chce4VzcmU

Although I can understand a lot of it. Sounds like French spoken with a Dutch/German accent.

[Sahson]

Going by sound only, Portuguese and French sound more deviant from Spanish and Italian than Romanian does.

French; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s48X0qywR0M
Portuguese; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ej-JRjpKJIU
Romanian; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhR8x9ZgWnI

french and portuguese have more vowel phonemes than other romance language. I think English is the most deviant romance language :P

[Unurautare]

I haven't heard enough spoken Romanian to judge that Latin dialect in any meaningful sense, but French sounds very distinct from the Italo-Iberian tongues. I suspect it has a stronger Celtic influence than the others.

That won't stop the non-latin foreigners from voting Romanian just because we're in Eastern Europe. :coffee: This South Park episode shows the American stereotype on Romanians(that we're Russians, this "They're Russians" stereotype applies to all Eastern Europe in fact),but it ends with a point,the girls leave South Park to go on tour and say they the Americans have no clue clue about Romania and to kiss their "little white Romanian asses":
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tnBNOyMh6rc

"Euro Trip" - Eastern Europe:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbcH_qYkeTc

[morski]

I voted French because of the Germanic R.

[Peyrol]

Sardinian language (italian subtitles)

DNfRtGxgUNo

[Ouistreham]

Romanian: Cu carne de vacă nu se moare de foame.
Portuguese: Com carne de vaca não se morre de fome.
Spanish: Con carne de vaca no se muere de hambre.
Italian: Con la carne di vacca no si mori di fame.
French: Avec la viande de vache ne se muere pas de faim.

My answer is FRENCH.:D

"ne se muere pas de faim" is incorrect. Contrary to other Romance languages French absolutely ignores the use of "se" (or It. "si") as an undefinite third-person pronoun. We use "on" instead (a derivate of "homme", like Ger. "man" from "Mann").

Thus the correct French translation is :
"Avec la viande de vache on ne meurt pas de faim"


I voted French because of the Germanic R.

This is not a pertinent factor. French, German and Danish uvular 'r' are rather recent developments that happened over a contiguous area but independently of each other.

Possibly correlated to the abundance in those languages of unstressed ø-like schwas, which are poorly compatible with a rolled 'r'.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d2/Uvular_rhotics_in_Europe.png
Uvular Rhotics in Europe

[Tel Errant]

French. It's the only one from the Romance family that doesn't sound virile.
The only one that does you mean, as it's the only one whose words don't almost systematically end with a vowel and has a gutural R instead of a round rolled one.
As for the prononciation/intonation, French can indeed sound sophisticated, posh, snob; that is, high class. Don't confuse sounding peasant with sounding virile.

[Ouistreham]

Spanish and Italian to most sound what a Romance language "should" sound like

There is a general consent that both Italian and Spanish are seen as the criterion of Romance sound but maybe we should put the question the other way around: how come Italian and Spanish sound so abnormally similar?

OK, those languages have diverged a lot since the Middle Ages (invention the hard j-sound, enhanced presence of double consonants in Italian etc.) but they are still phonetically closer to each other than to the regional languages located in-between (Ligurian, Piedmontese, Provençal, Occitan, Catalan).

I've never found any satisfactory explanation for that.

Could it be that the Wisigoths, having toured the whole European part of the Roman Empire (including all of Italy) for over hundred years before settling to Spain, had become familiar with "international proto-Romance" and brought along a relatively more elaborated version of it, akin to the latinized Romance that was to give birth to Tuscan?

Or did Charlemagne's invasions disrupt a linguistic continuum that existed previously?

[Han Cholo]

There is a general consent that both Italian and Spanish are seen as the criterion of Romance sound but maybe we should put the question the other way around: how come Italian and Spanish sound so abnormally similar?

OK, those languages have diverged a lot since the Middle Ages (invention the hard j-sound, enhanced presence of double consonants in Italian etc.) but they are still phonetically closer to each other than to the regional languages located in-between (Ligurian, Piedmontese, Provençal, Occitan, Catalan).

I've never found any satisfactory explanation for that.

Could it be that the Wisigoths, having toured the whole European part of the Roman Empire (including all of Italy) for over hundred years before settling to Spain, had become familiar with "international proto-Romance" and brought along a relatively more elaborated version of it, akin to the latinized Romance that was to give birth to Tuscan?

Or did Charlemagne's invasions disrupt a linguistic continuum that existed previously?

This. Catalan and Occitan were the intermediates between Northern French and Castillian. However that intermediary position was disrupted by standarization and influence in pronunciation pressured by both Spain and France. However I think that enforcement was bigger in France than in Spain?

[Peyrol]

There is a general consent that both Italian and Spanish are seen as the criterion of Romance sound but maybe we should put the question the other way around: how come Italian and Spanish sound so abnormally similar?

OK, those languages have diverged a lot since the Middle Ages (invention the hard j-sound, enhanced presence of double consonants in Italian etc.) but they are still phonetically closer to each other than to the regional languages located in-between (Ligurian, Piedmontese, Provençal, Occitan, Catalan).

I've never found any satisfactory explanation for that.

Could it be that the Wisigoths, having toured the whole European part of the Roman Empire (including all of Italy) for over hundred years before settling to Spain, had become familiar with "international proto-Romance" and brought along a relatively more elaborated version of it, akin to the latinized Romance that was to give birth to Tuscan?

Or did Charlemagne's invasions disrupt a linguistic continuum that existed previously?

Spain and Italy were two countries in constant touch with a lot of cultural exchanges, especially in the Middle Ages and the Renaissance (for the Religion and te Curch, the mercenaries, the mecenatism, spanish feuds in southern Italy, etc.). This connection, indeed, have brought here many spanish locutions and in Spain many italianisms.

Indeed, many terms and circumstances phrases and linguistical expressions are mysteriously very similars, if not identicals.

[Arthur Scharrenhans]

(Standard) Italian and Spanish sound similar because they reflect a similar stage of development from Vulgar Latin/Proto-Romance, and a relatively conservative one, especially morpho-phonetics and regarding sillable structure. The other languages are more innovative and thus more divergent, both from Latin and from one another. But it's well known in linguistics that an agreement in conservative features has no special significance. That is, Italian and Spanish sound similar not because they have something special in common, but because the other Romance languages have innovated more.

[Peyrol]

One classic hispanicism in the southern italian dialects is the use of the word "tengo" for say "i have".

For exampel, neapolitan "tengo mal de capa" in standard italians is "ho mal di testa" (i've headache)

[Sikeliot]

(Standard) Italian and Spanish sound similar because they reflect a similar stage of development from Vulgar Latin/Proto-Romance, and a relatively conservative one, especially morpho-phonetics and regarding sillable structure. The other languages are more innovative and thus more divergent, both from Latin and from one another. But it's well known in linguistics that an agreement in conservative features has no special significance. That is, Italian and Spanish sound similar not because they have something special in common, but because the other Romance languages have innovated more.

This is what I would have said, too.

[HungAryan]

French.

It sounds very Germanic, despite being a Romance language.
Thus, it just sounds so different from all the other Romance languages.

Anyone who voted Romanian should really reconsider their opinion.
If we took away all the Turkish, Hungarian, Slavic and Albanian loanwords from Romanian, it could easily pass for a South Italian dialect.

[Incal]

Anyone who voted Romanian should really reconsider their opinion.
If we took away all the Turkish, Hungarian, Slavic and Albanian loanwords from Romanian, it could easily pass for a South Italian dialect.

Well, until that day comes, Romanian along French will still be the languages that don't have much to do with the rest.

[Han Cholo]

French.

It sounds very Germanic, despite being a Romance language.
Thus, it just sounds so different from all the other Romance languages.

I'd say French sounds very romance once you get used to the sound shifts (which are mostly recent phenomenons) with subtantial Celtic influence, Germanic would come secondary. German and Dutch, which are the geographically closest languages to French sound absolutely nothing like it. English sounds a bit like French but that's mostly from influence of older French dialects and not the other way around.



Anyone who voted Romanian should really reconsider their opinion.
If we took away all the Turkish, Hungarian, Slavic and Albanian loanwords from Romanian, it could easily pass for a South Italian dialect.

Romanian is still the most gramatically distant from the rest, though it's still very noticeably related to anyone who hears it.

[Comte Arnau]

Obviously French, no debate about it is even possible. Objectively speaking, it is the language which has a more deviated phonology with regard to the mother tongue.

In a second place, probably Portuguese, with fewer deviant traits but with also quite a few. In a much lesser way, Romanian, Occitan, Catalan and the Rhaeto-Cisalpine languages.

Spanish has developed two sounds which are alien to the other Romance languages: the strong jota and the th.

Italian and Sardinian remain the closer to the original in sound. That is probably why so many of us find it easier to understand its phonology.

[Sikeliot]

If I had to pick which ones probably sound closest to Latin it'd be in order;

Italian
Spanish
Romanian
Portuguese
French

[Flintlocke]

I voted Portugese, it sounds south slavic but also beautiful.

[Han Cholo]

If I had to pick which ones probably sound closest to Latin it'd be in order;

Italian
Spanish
Romanian
Portuguese
French

Romanian is the closest to Latin. They even retain a few of the classic latin declinations which are not present in the rest of the family.

[Sikeliot]

Romanian is the closest to Latin. They even retain a few of the classic latin declinations which are not present in the rest of the family.

By phonetics too?

[Han Cholo]

By phonetics too?

How could you know? There are no sound clips of real latin being spoken by a native speaker.

[Comte Arnau]

How could you know? There are no sound clips of real latin being spoken by a native speaker.

Come on, Latin is too well attested to have its phonology known, in spite of a few doubts. We have to bear in mind, though, that the Romance languages don't come from Classical Latin, but from spoken late Latin, which had already changed some phonological traits clearly.

Anyway, I particularly like the way all Romance languages have developed a nice phonology of their own. Those times of feeling proud of how close every Romance language was to Latin sound nowadays so medieval... :p

[Unurautare]

Come on, Latin is too well attested to have its phonology known, in spite of a few doubts. We have to bear in mind, though, that the Romance languages don't come from Classical Latin, but from spoken late Latin, which had already changed some phonological traits clearly.

Anyway, I particularly like the way all Romance languages have developed a nice phonology of their own. Those times of feeling proud of how close every Romance language was to Latin sound nowadays so medieval... :p

Italian sounds "sweet" while Latin(the one I've heard from various sources),Portuguese and Romanian sound more manly. I don't care which one is more Roman to be frank,but we get a cookie for still calling ourselves Romans.:D

[Peyrol]

Romanian is the closest to Latin. They even retain a few of the classic latin declinations which are not present in the rest of the family.

False.

Sardinian is the closest to latin. The use of declination in romanian is irrelevant: 25% of their vocabulary and grammatical structures are derived from the slavic languages.

[Unurautare]

False.

Sardinian is the closest to latin. The use of declination in romanian is irrelevant: 25% of their vocabulary and grammatical structures are derived from the slavic languages.

Can you give me examples of grammatical structures from slavic languages? Btw only 10-15% is slavic,and the very most is from Old Church Slavonic(the language invented by the Greeks for Orthodox converts,it was used in Romania the same way Latin was used in the West as administrative and church language).

[Peyrol]

Can you give me examples of grammatical structures from slavic languages? Btw only 10-15% is slavic,and the very most is from Old Church Slavonic(the language invented by the Greeks for Orthodox converts,it was used in Romania the same way Latin was used in the West as official and church language).

I'm not a linguist, i report only the studies:


A study done in 1949, which analyzed the evolutionary degree of languages in comparison to their inheritance language (in the case of Romance languages to Latin comparing phonology, inflection, discourse, syntax, vocabulary, and intonation) revealed the following percentages (the higher the percentage, the greater the distance from Latin):[44]

Sardinian: 8%;
Italian: 12%;
Spanish: 20%;
Romanian: 23.5%;
Occitan: 25%;
Portuguese: 31%;
French: 44%.

The lexical similarity of Romanian with Italian has been estimated at 77%, followed by French at 75%, Sardinian 74%, Catalan 73%, Spanish 71%, Portuguese, and Rhaeto-Romance at 72%.

In modern times Romanian vocabulary has been strongly influenced by French, Italian and other languages.

However,i hear moldovan romanian every day (in my city lives 80,000 moldavians/romanians), also written, and have indeed a strong slavic influence especially in the pronunciation.

[Unurautare]

I'm not a linguist, i report only the studies:



However,i hear moldovan romanian every day (in my city lives 80,000 moldavians/romanians), also written, and have indeed a strong slavic influence especially in the pronunciation.

There are studies and studies. :) For Romanians in Romania the "Moldovans"(Rep.Moldova) speak Romanian with a Russian accent.
I've heard that people from Romanian Moldova(my region) have an accent like Italians from Rome,I only speak clear Romanian however.

[Comte Arnau]

We were talking here from a phonological point of view, and in that case, Sardinian is also the closest.

Sardinian keeps the k sounds before e/i, as in original Latin, while 'Eastern' (Romanian and Italian) changed it into ch, and 'Western' (French, Catalan, Spanish and Portuguese) changed it first into ts, then into s (or also th in Spanish).


Latin for 'sky' = [KELU]:

- Sardinian = chelu [kélu]
- Italian = cielo [chèlo]
- Romanian = cer [cher]
- French = ciel [syèl]
- Catalan = cel [sèl]
- Spanish = cielo [thyélo / syélo]
- Portuguese = céu [séw]

Notice how only in Sardinian it is pronounced just like 2,000 years ago.

Latin short i and u often remain in Sardinian, while they have turned into e and o in the other Romance languages.


Latin for 'dry' = [SIKKU]:

- Sardinian = sicu [siku]
- Italian = secco [sékko]
- Romanian = sec [sek]
- French = sec [sèk]
- Catalan = sec [sèk]
- Spanish = seco [séko]
- Portuguese = seco [séku]

[Peyrol]

We were talking here from a phonological point of view, and in that case, Sardinian is also the closest.

Sardinian keeps the k sounds before e/i, as in original Latin, while 'Eastern' (Romanian and Italian) changed it into ch, and 'Western' (French, Catalan, Spanish and Portuguese) changed it first into ts, then into s (or also th in Spanish).


Latin for 'sky' = [KELU]:

- Sardinian = chelu [kélu]
- Italian = cielo [chèlo]
- Romanian = cer [cher]
- French = ciel [syèl]
- Catalan = cel [sèl]
- Spanish = cielo [thyélo / syélo]
- Portuguese = céu [séw]

Notice how only in Sardinian it is pronounced just like 2,000 years ago.

Latin short i and u often remain in Sardinian, while they have turned into e and o in the other Romance languages.


Latin for 'dry' = [SIKKU]:

- Sardinian = sicu [siku]
- Italian = secco [sékko]
- Romanian = sec [sek]
- French = sec [sèk]
- Catalan = sec [sèk]
- Spanish = seco [séko]
- Portuguese = seco [séku]


Sardinian language (italian subtitles)

DNfRtGxgUNo


indeed.

[Siginulfo]

I say Portuguese.