How much Kangju, Wusun and Sarmatian ancestry do Tajiks- Pamiris, Yaghnobis have? [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

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Zanzibar

09-17-2021, 08:36 PM

I'm pretty ignorant about their genetics and their ethnogenesis but I want to learn more. Are they mainly descendants of Kangju and Wusun with some additional BMAC, Western-Iranian (in the case of Tajiks and Yaghnobis) and some AASI and Khovsgol_BA admixture (the latter in the case of Tajiks and Sarikolis)? Also are Kangju and Wusun related to the Sogdians and Bactrians?

Are these models accurate? Do Rushan and Shugnan Pamiris actually have that much Kangju ancestry?

Target: Tajik
Distance: 1.9434% / 0.01943397
47.6 KAZ_Kangju
20.0 UZB_Bustan_BA
17.8 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
10.8 MNG_Khovsgol_BA
3.8 S_AASI_SimAv

Target: Tajik_Badakshan
Distance: 1.6468% / 0.01646753
65.2 KAZ_Kangju
20.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
6.2 S_AASI_SimAv
5.8 UZB_Bustan_BA
2.2 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Tajik_Ishkashim
Distance: 1.5314% / 0.01531388
64.4 KAZ_Kangju
26.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
7.8 S_AASI_SimAv
1.4 UZB_Bustan_BA
0.2 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Tajik_Rushan
Distance: 1.5277% / 0.01527711
74.0 KAZ_Kangju
15.2 UZB_Bustan_BA
7.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
3.2 S_AASI_SimAv

Target: Tajik_Shugnan
Distance: 1.2513% / 0.01251254
71.0 KAZ_Kangju
15.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
9.0 UZB_Bustan_BA
4.6 S_AASI_SimAv
0.2 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Tajik_Yagnobi
Distance: 1.7713% / 0.01771289
61.6 KAZ_Kangju
23.4 UZB_Bustan_BA
15.0 IRN_Hasanlu_IA

Target: Sarikoli_China
Distance: 1.9756% / 0.01975636
60.6 KAZ_Kangju
25.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
7.4 S_AASI_SimAv
6.8 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Replacing Kangju with Wusun and the fit worsens:

Target: Tajik
Distance: 2.1224% / 0.02122369
50.2 KAZ_Wusun
28.0 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
10.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
7.2 MNG_Khovsgol_BA
3.6 S_AASI_SimAv
1.0 UZB_Bustan_BA

Target: Tajik_Badakshan
Distance: 1.9991% / 0.01999119
64.8 KAZ_Wusun
19.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
7.8 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
4.8 S_AASI_SimAv
3.0 UZB_Bustan_BA

Target: Tajik_Ishkashim
Distance: 1.9892% / 0.01989189
61.0 KAZ_Wusun
22.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
7.6 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
5.6 S_AASI_SimAv
3.4 UZB_Bustan_BA

Target: Tajik_Rushan
Distance: 2.4308% / 0.02430840
68.2 KAZ_Wusun
16.0 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
15.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
0.8 S_AASI_SimAv

Target: Tajik_Shugnan
Distance: 1.9472% / 0.01947241
66.0 KAZ_Wusun
18.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
13.6 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
2.4 S_AASI_SimAv

Target: Tajik_Yagnobi
Distance: 2.6429% / 0.02642927
53.8 KAZ_Wusun
31.4 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
14.8 UZB_Bustan_BA

Target: Sarikoli_China
Distance: 2.0092% / 0.02009193
68.4 KAZ_Wusun
23.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
6.8 S_AASI_SimAv
1.2 MNG_Khovsgol_BA
0.4 UZB_Bustan_BA

Looks like they prefer Kangju to Wusun. Is it because Wusun have more East Eurasian ancestry than Kangju?

Also you can model using Sarmatians instead of Kangju or Wusun to model Tajiks, Pamiris, Yaghnobis? The fits are also really good surprisingly. Are they also heavily Sarmatian-derived?

Using Sarmatian_RUS_Urals

Target: Tajik
Distance: 1.7848% / 0.01784766
38.2 Sarmatian_RUS_Urals
26.8 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
11.6 MNG_Khovsgol_BA
9.8 UZB_Bustan_BA
9.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
4.0 S_AASI_SimAv

Target: Tajik_Badakshan
Distance: 1.4523% / 0.01452271
53.2 Sarmatian_RUS_Urals
20.8 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
11.8 UZB_Bustan_BA
6.4 S_AASI_SimAv
4.6 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
3.2 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Tajik_Ishkashim
Distance: 1.2656% / 0.01265647
52.6 Sarmatian_RUS_Urals
25.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
8.8 UZB_Bustan_BA
8.0 S_AASI_SimAv
4.0 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
1.2 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Tajik_Rushan
Distance: 1.2930% / 0.01293048
60.6 Sarmatian_RUS_Urals
19.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
11.0 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
4.8 UZB_Bustan_BA
3.6 S_AASI_SimAv
0.6 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Tajik_Shugnan
Distance: 1.0999% / 0.01099851
57.0 Sarmatian_RUS_Urals
25.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
10.8 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
4.6 S_AASI_SimAv
1.6 MNG_Khovsgol_BA
0.4 UZB_Bustan_BA

Target: Tajik_Yagnobi
Distance: 1.6267% / 0.01626683
49.8 Sarmatian_RUS_Urals
25.0 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
15.8 UZB_Bustan_BA
8.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
0.8 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Sarikoli_China
Distance: 1.7011% / 0.01701095
51.6 Sarmatian_RUS_Urals
24.8 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
9.0 UZB_Bustan_BA
7.4 S_AASI_SimAv
7.2 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Replace Sarmatian_RUS_Urals with Sarmatian_Segizsay:

Target: Tajik
Distance: 1.7473% / 0.01747340
38.8 Sarmatian_Segizsay
26.8 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
13.0 UZB_Bustan_BA
11.8 MNG_Khovsgol_BA
6.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
3.6 S_AASI_SimAv

Target: Tajik_Badakshan
Distance: 1.4040% / 0.01404039
53.6 Sarmatian_Segizsay
16.6 UZB_Bustan_BA
15.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
5.8 S_AASI_SimAv
4.8 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
3.6 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Tajik_Ishkashim
Distance: 1.2101% / 0.01210120
53.2 Sarmatian_Segizsay
20.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
13.6 UZB_Bustan_BA
7.4 S_AASI_SimAv
4.0 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
1.6 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Tajik_Rushan
Distance: 1.2731% / 0.01273112
60.8 Sarmatian_Segizsay
12.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
11.2 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
11.2 UZB_Bustan_BA
3.0 S_AASI_SimAv
1.2 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Tajik_Shugnan
Distance: 1.1566% / 0.01156558
57.0 Sarmatian_Segizsay
19.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
11.2 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
6.0 UZB_Bustan_BA
4.0 S_AASI_SimAv
2.2 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Tajik_Yagnobi
Distance: 1.6354% / 0.01635395
50.6 Sarmatian_Segizsay
25.0 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
21.2 UZB_Bustan_BA
2.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
0.8 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Sarikoli_China
Distance: 1.5255% / 0.01525543
52.2 Sarmatian_Segizsay
19.8 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
13.6 UZB_Bustan_BA
7.6 MNG_Khovsgol_BA
6.8 S_AASI_SimAv

Please correct me if my models are flawed: that I'm doing it wrong. To reiterate, I'm really ignorant and new to the genetics of this region and the ethnic groups inhabited. Thoughts please?

Leto

09-17-2021, 08:43 PM

Did you manage to get coordinates for the Tajiks from Jeong? I keep asking about them because I wanna run them through my Central Asian model.

Avicenna

09-17-2021, 09:23 PM

Could you run Afghan_pashtun , Pashtun_kabul , Pashtun_North Afghanistan , Pashtun_kandahar and Safi_pakthun Laghman please ??

Komintasavalta

09-18-2021, 03:10 AM

Did you manage to get coordinates for the Tajiks from Jeong? I keep asking about them because I wanna run them through my Central Asian model.

They're already in G25, if you mean the Tajiks from Jeong. et al. 2019. They're all the samples named just "Tajik" without a suffix for the region.

$ curl https://reichdata.hms.harvard.edu/pub/datasets/amh_repo/curated_releases/V44/V44.3/SHARE/public.dir/v44.3_HO_public.anno|grep Tajik|cut -f2,4,8,9,10,11,12|grep Jeong|tr \\t \;
TJ-0080;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Aininsk y district;Tajikistan;39.37;68.52
TJ-0086;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Aininsk y district;Tajikistan;39.37;68.52
TJ-0091;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Aininsk y district;Tajikistan;39.37;68.52
TJ-011;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Kyrgyz_Tajikis tan;Gorno-Badakhshan region, Murgab district;Tajikistan;38.15;73.95
TJ-032;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Kyrgyz_Tajikis tan;Gorno-Badakhshan region, Murgab district;Tajikistan;38.15;73.95
TJ-038;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Kyrgyz_Tajikis tan;Gorno-Badakhshan region, Murgab district;Tajikistan;38.15;73.95
TJ-098;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Kyrgyz_Tajikis tan;Gorno-Badakhshan region, Murgab district;Tajikistan;38.15;73.95
TJ-0108;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Kulyab district;Tajikistan;37.9;69.77
TJ-0155;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Kulyab district;Tajikistan;37.9;69.77
TJ-0484;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Gissar district;Tajikistan;38.52;68.53
TJ-0486;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Gissar district;Tajikistan;38.52;68.53
TJ-0495;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Aininsk y district;Tajikistan;39.37;68.52
TJ-0500;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Kulyab district;Tajikistan;37.9;69.77
TJ-0517;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Kulyab district;Tajikistan;37.9;69.77
TJ-0555;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Kulyab district;Tajikistan;37.9;69.77
TJ-0573;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Kulyab district;Tajikistan;37.9;69.77
TJ-0574;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Kulyab district;Tajikistan;37.9;69.77
TJ-0686;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Gissar district;Tajikistan;38.52;68.53
TJ-0688;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Gissar district;Tajikistan;38.52;68.53
TJ-0796;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Aininsk y district;Tajikistan;39.37;68.52
TJ-0798;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Aininsk y district;Tajikistan;39.37;68.52
TJ-0807;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Aininsk y district;Tajikistan;39.37;68.52
TJ-0982;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Aininsk y district;Tajikistan;39.37;68.52
TJ-0984;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Aininsk y district;Tajikistan;39.37;68.52
TJ-0986;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Aininsk y district;Tajikistan;39.37;68.52
TJ-1032;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Aininsk y district;Tajikistan;39.37;68.52
TJ-1041;JeongNatureEcologyEvolution2019;Tajik;Aininsk y district;Tajikistan;39.37;68.52
$ curl 'https://drive.google.com/uc?export=download&id=1HYrDwxEXv82DvDLoq736pS5ZTGJA4dn5'|grep Tajik:TJ|cut -d, -f1|paste -sd\ -
Tajik:TJ-0080 Tajik:TJ-0086 Tajik:TJ-0091 Tajik:TJ-0108 Tajik:TJ-0155 Tajik:TJ-0484 Tajik:TJ-0486 Tajik:TJ-0495 Tajik:TJ-0500 Tajik:TJ-0517 Tajik:TJ-0555 Tajik:TJ-0573 Tajik:TJ-0574 Tajik:TJ-0686 Tajik:TJ-0688 Tajik:TJ-0796 Tajik:TJ-0798 Tajik:TJ-0807 Tajik:TJ-0982 Tajik:TJ-0984 Tajik:TJ-0986 Tajik:TJ-1032 Tajik:TJ-1041

Zanzibar

09-18-2021, 03:49 AM

Could you run Afghan_pashtun , Pashtun_kabul , Pashtun_North Afghanistan , Pashtun_kandahar and Safi_pakthun Laghman please ??

I will. Btw the Tajik_Badakhshan samples are actually from Gorno-Badakhshan, Tajikistan, not from Badakhshan in Far Northern Afghanistan.

Zanzibar

09-18-2021, 06:40 AM

Did you manage to get coordinates for the Tajiks from Jeong? I keep asking about them because I wanna run them through my Central Asian model.

Sorry I will ask them. Preoccupied with too many stuff.

Leto

09-18-2021, 11:09 AM

They're already in G25, if you mean the Tajiks from Jeong. et al. 2019. They're all the samples named just "Tajik" without a suffix for the region.

Okay, thanks! I will sort them out and rename them properly.

Zanzibar

09-18-2021, 03:27 PM

Could you run Afghan_pashtun , Pashtun_kabul , Pashtun_North Afghanistan , Pashtun_kandahar and Safi_pakthun Laghman please ??

Please do not quote them as I might have to remove them later as I'm not sure if these samples are privated or not (they weren't added to the G25 spreadsheet so I don't think they are for public use) .

I will put them in spoilers just for safety. Do not quote please.

Target: Pashtun_Afghanistan_Average
Distance: 1.4303% / 0.01430341
45.2 KAZ_Kangju
23.8 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
17.0 UZB_Bustan_BA
9.4 S_AASI_SimAv
4.6 IRN_Hasanlu_IA

Target: Pashtun_Kabul_Paghman
Distance: 1.9346% / 0.01934597
46.8 KAZ_Kangju
35.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
10.4 S_AASI_SimAv
6.6 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
0.8 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Pashtun_Kandahar
Distance: 2.0031% / 0.02003122
41.6 KAZ_Kangju
36.2 UZB_Bustan_BA
11.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
8.4 S_AASI_SimAv
2.6 IRN_Hasanlu_IA

Target: Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
Distance: 1.5111% / 0.01511069
46.4 KAZ_Kangju
26.0 UZB_Bustan_BA
15.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
9.8 S_AASI_SimAv
1.8 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
0.6 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Replacing the Kangju with Wusun instead, the fits worsen

Target: Pashtun_Afghanistan_Average
Distance: 1.8302% / 0.01830220
41.4 KAZ_Wusun
31.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
16.2 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
8.0 S_AASI_SimAv
3.2 UZB_Bustan_BA

Target: Pashtun_Kabul_Paghman
Distance: 2.0801% / 0.02080116
44.2 KAZ_Wusun
32.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
14.2 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
9.4 S_AASI_SimAv

Target: Pashtun_Kandahar
Distance: 2.4289% / 0.02428925
37.6 KAZ_Wusun
23.6 UZB_Bustan_BA
18.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
13.6 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
7.2 S_AASI_SimAv

Target: Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
Distance: 1.9016% / 0.01901586
43.4 KAZ_Wusun
23.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
13.4 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
11.2 UZB_Bustan_BA
8.6 S_AASI_SimAv

Replacing the Kangju and Wusun with Sarmatians instead. First using Sarmatian_RUS_Urals:

Target: Pashtun_Afghanistan_Average
Distance: 1.3208% / 0.01320774
36.8 Sarmatian_RUS_Urals
34.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
13.2 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
9.8 S_AASI_SimAv
6.0 UZB_Bustan_BA
0.2 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Pashtun_Kabul_Paghman
Distance: 1.9084% / 0.01908444
37.4 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
36.8 Sarmatian_RUS_Urals
13.4 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
10.6 S_AASI_SimAv
1.8 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Pashtun_Kandahar
Distance: 1.9098% / 0.01909815
34.4 Sarmatian_RUS_Urals
24.0 UZB_Bustan_BA
22.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
10.8 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
8.8 S_AASI_SimAv

Target: Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
Distance: 1.3347% / 0.01334668
37.0 Sarmatian_RUS_Urals
25.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
15.2 UZB_Bustan_BA
10.8 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
9.8 S_AASI_SimAv
1.6 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Substituting Sarmatian_RUS_Urals with Sarmatian_Segizsay

Target: Pashtun_Afghanistan_Average
Distance: 1.3174% / 0.01317438
37.0 Sarmatian_Segizsay
30.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
13.4 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
9.4 S_AASI_SimAv
9.4 UZB_Bustan_BA
0.6 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Pashtun_Kabul_Paghman
Distance: 1.9999% / 0.01999868
36.8 Sarmatian_Segizsay
36.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
14.6 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
10.2 S_AASI_SimAv
2.2 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Target: Pashtun_Kandahar
Distance: 1.7711% / 0.01771139
35.4 Sarmatian_Segizsay
26.8 UZB_Bustan_BA
19.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
10.4 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
8.4 S_AASI_SimAv

Target: Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
Distance: 1.4486% / 0.01448565
36.8 Sarmatian_Segizsay
21.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
19.0 UZB_Bustan_BA
11.2 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
9.4 S_AASI_SimAv
2.0 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

Overall, they have less Kangju, Wusun, Sarmatian ancestry than Tajiks. Instead, they seem to have more heavily Iranian_Neolithic/BMAC, more AASI and less Mongoloid than the Tajiks.

Dr_Maul

09-18-2021, 07:23 PM

Leto

09-18-2021, 07:56 PM

Yagnobis are a good proxy for Sogdians and Bactrians overall. Added Saidu Sharif H_o as I am sure to have read that Hindu slavery strongly impacted the region genetically. Pamiris seem to be 30+% Wusun/Kangju
[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/xsxc1tm/a.png
Do you think there is medieval Indian admixture in Tajiks? What would be the best Bronze Age proxy for Indian? I'm less interested in later cultures as they are pretty much descended from the Bronze Age Steppe herders anyway.

Dr_Maul

09-18-2021, 08:17 PM

Do you think there is medieval Indian admixture in Tajiks? What would be the best Bronze Age proxy for Indian? I'm less interested in later cultures as they are pretty much descended from the Bronze Age Steppe herders anyway.

I have to find it again, but I am positive I read about how Hindu slavery mostly during the Timurid and Mughal period strongly affected South Asian genetics in Uzbeks, Tajiks and Uygurs and in Iran.. I don't think anything occurred in the bronze age.

Leto

09-18-2021, 08:50 PM

I have to find it again, but I am positive I read about how Hindu slavery mostly during the Timurid and Mughal period strongly affected South Asian genetics in Uzbeks, Tajiks and Uygurs and in Iran.. I don't think anything occurred in the bronze age.
I didn't say they were there in the Bronze Age, I just prefer to use samples from roughly the same period.

Avicenna

09-19-2021, 12:08 AM

I have to find it again, but I am positive I read about how Hindu slavery mostly during the Timurid and Mughal period strongly affected South Asian genetics in Uzbeks, Tajiks and Uygurs and in Iran.. I don't think anything occurred in the bronze age.

Wasn't the reason why the hiindu kush range was called Hindu Kush ( Hindu killer ) is because it was known for hindu slaves dying on their way to Turkestan ? Doubt it had much impact , I think it goes way back .

Dr_Maul

09-19-2021, 03:50 AM

I didn't say they were there in the Bronze Age, I just prefer to use samples from roughly the same period.

Well in that case there is no such samples. India proper only has Roopkund A (8th century Hindus) and Roopkund B (20th century Europeans). Pakistan has quite a few samples from the Early Iron age / Vedic period, they are pretty much the same as modern Dardic people (the samples are from modern Pashtun regions in Pakistan)

Dr_Maul

09-19-2021, 03:54 AM

Wasn't the reason why the hiindu kush range was called Hindu Kush ( Hindu killer ) is because it was known for hindu slaves dying on their way to Turkestan ? Doubt it had much impact , I think it goes way back .

Well many would have died but still hundreds of thousands of Hindu slaves participated in the creation of Uzbekistans Timurid architecture, and in Iran as well. This study also talks about it
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929717302914
Some of it can be attributed to Gypsies as well, although less I would think.

Avicenna

09-19-2021, 10:02 AM

Well many would have died but still hundreds of thousands of Hindu slaves participated in the creation of Uzbekistans Timurid architecture, and in Iran as well. This study also talks about it
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002929717302914
Some of it can be attributed to Gypsies as well, although less I would think.

Couldn't find anything regrading central Asia but were you referring to this ?

"while in Iranian_B we infer admixture dated to 1418 CE (1194–1558 CE) from a Pakistan-like source that falls into the period of the Timurid Empire (1370–1507 CE) that extended into present-day Pakistan.70 "

Besides , wouldn't ydna reflect this upscale admixture with Hindu slaves ?

Avicenna

09-19-2021, 10:26 AM

Leto

09-19-2021, 01:15 PM

Well in that case there is no such samples. India proper only has Roopkund A (8th century Hindus) and Roopkund B (20th century Europeans). Pakistan has quite a few samples from the Early Iron age / Vedic period, they are pretty much the same as modern Dardic people (the samples are from modern Pashtun regions in Pakistan)
Any Indus Valley sample? They were South Asians after all.

Roy

09-19-2021, 03:48 PM

Dr_Maul

09-19-2021, 04:27 PM

Couldn't find anything regrading central Asia but were you referring to this ?

"while in Iranian_B we infer admixture dated to 1418 CE (1194–1558 CE) from a Pakistan-like source that falls into the period of the Timurid Empire (1370–1507 CE) that extended into present-day Pakistan.70 "

Besides , wouldn't ydna reflect this upscale admixture with Hindu slaves ?

Yes thats what I am referring to. and I think it is reflected a little bit, in terms of H and others although most of Indians haplogroup isn't particularly different from the region in the first place (Steppe and Iran neolithic)

Dr_Maul

09-19-2021, 04:28 PM

Any Indus Valley sample? They were South Asians after all.

IRN_Shahr Sokhta BA2 from Southeast Iran is considered as an "indus valley peripheral culture" and is genetically fully south asian, you can try those

Dr_Maul

09-19-2021, 04:39 PM

When did these Hindu people eventually assimilate? Could it not be explained by the usual slow genetic flow?

Idk, probably into the local "peasant" population during that time, the admixture isn't particularly large, around 0-4% in Central-West Iranians (This is reflected in 23andme as well, which often shows this amount of South Asian too.). Some regions of Iran have higher, especially around the gulf area.

Going by the study I sent, as well as this one (https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S0092-8674(21)00839-4) which says Kurds didn't receive admixture since bronze age either, I made this model using Kurdish and Iranian Zoroastrian to represent purer Medieval Iranians

https://i.ibb.co/VJKfsSV/Capture.png

This pretty much matches the study's model as well as what 23andme shows for most Iranians

Leto

09-19-2021, 04:40 PM

IRN_Shahr Sokhta BA2 from Southeast Iran is considered as an "indus valley peripheral culture" and is genetically fully south asian, you can try those
Already use it. :thumb001: But I don't think it's 100% South Indian 'cause Iranians can get quite a bit of it.

Dr_Maul

09-19-2021, 04:50 PM

Already use it. :thumb001: But I don't think it's 100% South Indian 'cause Iranians can get quite a bit of it.

As far as I know it is pure South Asian, and Iranians don't score more than 5% usually (except for some individuals especially in the south, as well as baloches, east iranians/iranics etc)

Zanzibar

09-19-2021, 05:50 PM

Already use it. :thumb001: But I don't think it's 100% South Indian 'cause Iranians can get quite a bit of it.

You can also try Shahr_Sokhta_BA3 and this Shahr_Sokhta_BA2:18728 individual. They are even more AASI-shifted than Shahr_Sokhta_BA2 average:

IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3,0.033009,-0.081242,-0.180641,0.120157,-0.097557,0.065539,0.0047,0.009461,0.035996,0.02678 9,-0.002273,0.003747,-0.005649,0.007982,0.003529,0.003182,0.008736,0.001 647,0.000126,-0.002001,0.001373,-0.008161,0.000246,-0.001928,-0.008023
IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I8728,0.033009,-0.081242,-0.184789,0.125325,-0.09848,0.06777,0.002585,0.007615,0.03661,0.02606,-0.002273,0.010041,-0.005798,0.006744,0.004479,0.001326,0.008605,0.001 267,0.00352,0.001376,0.003743,-0.004946,-0.00037,-0.00253,-0.007305

Not sure if they are 100% South Indian or not, but they seem to very close to them:

Distance to: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3
0.03240036 Velamas
0.03262738 Telugu_GBR
0.03580884 Tamils_GBR
0.03724464 Piramalai
0.03843608 Kurumba
0.04039557 Yadava
0.04413825 Maratha
0.04437636 Dusadh
0.04712160 Gujarati
0.04831829 Kol
0.05170136 Kamboj_o
0.05185017 Chamar
0.05185488 Kanjar
0.05211794 Sakilli
0.05461040 Dharkar
0.05654033 Uttar_Pradesh
0.05782993 Pallan
0.06227260 Chenchu
0.06580360 Madiga
0.06670646 Bengali_Bangladesh
0.06710143 Iyer
0.06762068 Gupta
0.06831007 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu
0.06957464 North_Kannadi
0.07004843 Relli

Distance to: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2:I8728
0.03627293 Telugu_GBR
0.03648165 Velamas
0.03898057 Tamils_GBR
0.03987019 Piramalai
0.04128609 Kurumba
0.04340353 Yadava
0.04628662 Maratha
0.04666596 Dusadh
0.05202152 Gujarati
0.05242801 Sakilli
0.05261650 Chamar
0.05301827 Kol
0.05524242 Kamboj_o
0.05552058 Kanjar
0.05778623 Dharkar
0.05785635 Pallan
0.05865037 Uttar_Pradesh
0.06490953 Chenchu
0.06564323 Madiga
0.06632634 Gupta
0.06924493 North_Kannadi
0.07083407 Bengali_Bangladesh
0.07127806 Relli
0.07138741 Hakkipikki
0.07198471 Mala

Avicenna

09-19-2021, 06:00 PM

Yes thats what I am referring to. and I think it is reflected a little bit, in terms of H and others although most of Indians haplogroup isn't particularly different from the region in the first place (Steppe and Iran neolithic)

It says Pakistani like which could anything really. Regarding haplotypes , surely south Asians have a unique ydna marker ? I know they are rich in R1a and others but surely it can't be the exact same clades as Iranians And central Asians ?

Dr_Maul

09-19-2021, 06:21 PM

It says Pakistani like which could anything really. Regarding haplotypes , surely south Asians have a unique ydna marker ? I know they are rich in R1a and others but surely it can't be the exact same clades as Iranians And central Asians ?

There are many shared clades. But H for example is pure South Asian and is found in 1-3% across Iran and especially in Xinjiang and Uzbekistan which shows definite Gypsy / South Asian admix. Haplogroup L too.

Leto

09-19-2021, 06:22 PM

Btw the Tajik_Badakhshan samples are actually from Gorno-Badakhshan, Tajikistan, not from Badakhshan in Far Northern Afghanistan.
Do you know who added it? It was added just a week or so ago.

Zanzibar

09-19-2021, 06:38 PM

Do you know who added it? It was added just a week or so ago.

Not sure if it was David or Lucas who added it. But the original samples came from the user in Anthrogenica: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?14155-Global25-automated-nMonte-for-South-Central-Asian-members&p=796199&viewfull=1#post796199