Germanic unity

[Hevneren]

I'm curious about ideas on Germanic unity and what members on here think about it. It's a very loose concept and there would be various degrees of expressing unity, if such feelings exist.

There's greater economic cooperation, cultural exchange, a Germanic Union and so forth. What kind of cooperation, if any, would be viable and desirable?

[Wulfhere]

I would consider any sort of Germanic confederation - British Isles, Scandinavia, Low Countries - but not if Germany was involved.

[Magister Eckhart]

I would approve of any effort to see a Germanic Cultural Union, but I think that cultural, not economic, exchange is the most important aspect of any such "Union". I worry, though, that the Cultural Marxists who generally rule the Scandinavian countries would turn any such union from a Germanic Union into a Turkish Union very quickly. I would therefore only approve of such a programme if it were explicitly anti-communist and anti-immigrant.

I suppose the following has a certain "In an Absolut World" quality to it, but nevertheless:

http://img707.imageshack.us/img707/2338/unions.png

[The Lawspeaker]

Thanks but no thanks. I prefer to stick to the good, old Benelux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benelux).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Flag_of_Benelux.svg/125px-Flag_of_Benelux.svg.png

And some close economic cooperation with Germany (our Guilder pegged to the D-Mark) - with Germany being an unofficial fourth member and an observer.

[Oreka Bailoak]

I want more Germanic areas with different flavors. Today we don't have enough traditional cultural diversity- all the Germanic countries have the exact same unhealthy ideology, social erosion, multiculturalism, massive immigration, and politically correct zombie citizens.

I want a massive new cultural renaissance that places more value in "social capital", community bonds, folk events, more creativity, traditional art, family values and traditional philosophy, and a greater value of the sacred/spiritual.

Cultural exchange? As long as it strengthens the style of each Germanic area and doesn't erode uniqueness away.

Economic Union? Sure.

Political Union/common currency? No.

[Motörhead Remember Me]

The average Scandinavian is feeling quite distanced from Germans, Britons and Austrians not only culturally but also socioeconomically and would most likely opt for an even tighter Nordic co-operation.

[Hevneren]

I worry, though, that the Cultural Marxists who generally rule the Scandinavian countries would turn any such union from a Germanic Union into a Turkish Union very quickly.

Islamic immigration is lower in Denmark and Norway than in Germany or the Netherlands, and Denmark has one of the strictest immigration policies in Europe. I think only Finland and perhaps Switzerland have stricter immigration policies.

[Hevneren]

Thanks but no thanks. I prefer to stick to the good, old Benelux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benelux).

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/32/Flag_of_Benelux.svg/125px-Flag_of_Benelux.svg.png

And some close economic cooperation with Germany (our Guilder pegged to the D-Mark) - with Germany being an unofficial fourth member and an observer.


What happened to your European federation idea?

[Hevneren]

I would consider any sort of Germanic confederation - British Isles, Scandinavia, Low Countries - but not if Germany was involved.

All of these territories separately, you mean? Or together?

[Hevneren]

I want a massive new cultural renaissance that places more value in "social capital", community bonds, folk events, more creativity, traditional art, family values and traditional philosophy, and a greater value of the sacred/spiritual.

Do you have any ideas on how to achieve this?

[Wulfhere]

All of these territories separately, you mean? Or together?

Together. As three distinct regions of a greater confederation.

[rhiannon]

I think the situation is complicated when you combine economies. I picked the cultural exchange option.

[Oreka Bailoak]

Do you have any ideas on how to achieve this?

Yes. More things like this...
67rc96joOz8

And require community groups of kids to meet together for different activities...

Teach culture, traditional values in school in the style of Roger Scruton or other traditional philosophers...

I want different styles of art, architecture in different areas. Great examples are Quinlan Terry's classical buildings on the Thames or Luxemburg architect Leon Krier- "new urbanist" style. Painters following lines of Roger Kimball.

I want a revival of classical music and community bands - great examples are Gorecki, Tavener, John Adams, Michael Torke. Henri Dutilleux Gottfried von Einem, Nicholas Maw, Ned Rorem and John Corigliano. Colin and David Matthesws, Oliver Knussen, David del Tredici, Robin Holloway.

I like literature that critiques modern social values, and/or romanticizes high moral/spiritual values, like Michel Houellebecq, Ian McEwan. I also like the traditional philosophers and traditional poets.

And less of the ugly modern architecture (like Le Corbusier) and art, less ugly spiritual degrading music, less cultural Marxist values (moral and cultural relativism), I want less radical individualism, more collective morality, more family values, .... a cultural renaissance.

[Argyll]

Don't unify the Gemanic nations. You'd just have another United Kingdom, and that would be bad for the other folks of the countries. Heed this warning.

[Magister Eckhart]

Islamic immigration is lower in Denmark and Norway than in Germany or the Netherlands, and Denmark has one of the strictest immigration policies in Europe. I think only Finland and perhaps Switzerland have stricter immigration policies.

Saracen Union, then - there, nice and inclusive. In any case, if its one group of people who have shown themselves to be completely untrustworthy in the preservation of culture and ethnic integrity, it's the Scandinavians in general and the Norwegians and Swedes particularly.

[ficuscarica]

LOL @ Oreka, that Jodler is plain awesome, hahaha!

And yes, I also support regional diversity, unity in diversity. Regional dialects, food, feasts, etc. just rock. It would be a shame if we lost it...

[Albion]

I'd like to see greater cultural and economic co-operation between Germanic nations.

It is ad to see the Germanic nations not working together as well as they should.

But I draw the line at a common currency or Germanic Federation. Our countries are similar but have their differences.

Even with the Scandinavians who are very similar to each other the Kalmar Union broke up. And trying to unite England and Germany is never going to happen, nor is uniting Iceland with anybody.

We need a Germanic Council based on the Nordic Council model - a co-operation organisation for cultural, economic, standards and infrastructure development.


The average Scandinavian is feeling quite distanced from Germans, Britons and Austrians not only culturally but also socioeconomically and would most likely opt for an even tighter Nordic co-operation.

A Finn doesn't really speak for Norwegians, Swedes nor Danes. They my like Finland but I doubt they'd unite with Finland let alone each other.


Don't unify the Gemanic nations. You'd just have another United Kingdom, and that would be bad for the other folks of the countries. Heed this warning.

Spot on. Another bickering union where the dominant nation/(s) get robbed by the others. This already happens to England in the UK.
This also leads to some areas feeling abandoned by the government and subsequently whining about unfair treatment.

[The Lawspeaker]

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50555_24511279440_7476855_n.jpg


The more I am thinking of it.. the more attractive the idea becomes. But I am not sure about whether Britain would fit in such a Union. It should be something along the lines of the Nordic Council but with it's own elected parliament and mandatory referendums. And in the future maybe a customs union and currency union but that's something for the long term.

[Pallantides]

I could support a Scandinavian union if some form of union would be necessary, but not a Germanic union. I think a majority of Scandinavian peoples would be against such a union as well.



The average Scandinavian is feeling quite distanced from Germans, Britons and Austrians not only culturally but also socioeconomically and would most likely opt for an even tighter Nordic co-operation.

True

But I'd say Germans and Austrian are even more distant than British and english speakers in general nowadays, as most young Scandinavians understand English but fewer do German.

[The Lawspeaker]

But I'd say Germans and Austrian are even more distant than British and english speakers in general nowadays, as most young Scandinavians understand English but fewer do German.
That's only because they don't learn to speak German. I think we should put more emphasis on learning German in our schools. Maybe a bit less on English.

[Pallantides]

No, I had German in School and I much prefer English.

[The Lawspeaker]

No, I had German in School and I much prefer English.
Why ?

[poiuytrewq0987]

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50555_24511279440_7476855_n.jpg


The more I am thinking of it.. the more attractive the idea becomes. But I am not sure about whether Britain would fit in such a Union. It should be something along the lines of the Nordic Council but with it's own elected parliament and mandatory referendums. And in the future maybe a customs union and currency union but that's something for the long term.

Hm... how about a European union instead? :D

[The Lawspeaker]

But then again.. something like a Germanic Council (based on the Nordic Council) would do but only if it an elected parliament and compulsory referendums. For the rest I think that whatever the Nordic Council has been doing could be transfered to the Germanic Council - although the Nordic Council and the Benelux would still continue to function as normal. So it could be that some countries that are in Nordic Council (Finland, Greenland) are not members of the Germanic Council.

[Pallantides]

It's my preference, I guess American and English culture as well have had greater impact on me than German culture also.

[The Lawspeaker]

Hm... how about a European union instead? :D
No thank you. You pay for your own bread.

[The Lawspeaker]

It's my preference, I guess American and English culture as well have had greater impact on me than German culture also.
The same Anglo-American culture that has ruined our youth and people ? ;) Then we better look at traditional Scandinavian, German and Germanic values in general.

[poiuytrewq0987]

No thank you. You pay for your own bread.

We already do.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PJ9Xst3mR8M/TUnV8ux0JnI/AAAAAAAAABA/DAeXxEzPOqE/s1600/eu_map.gif

Most money that we get from the EU are only loans that we'll have to eventually pay back.

[Pallantides]

The same Anglo-American culture that has ruined our youth and people ? ;) Then we better look at traditional Scandinavian, German and Germanic values in general.

Yeah... the one who put the rock & roll feelin in your bone!;)




I don't think Scandinavian and German values are that simillar though. We are seperate peoples with our own cultures and values.

[The Lawspeaker]

We already do.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_PJ9Xst3mR8M/TUnV8ux0JnI/AAAAAAAAABA/DAeXxEzPOqE/s1600/eu_map.gif

Most money that we get from the EU are only loans that we'll have to eventually pay back.
Then I think that you should start paying back what you owe to the Netherlands. We could use our money better.


Hmm when it comes to the concept of Germanic cooperation I think that we should take a long look at Scandinavia as they have some pre-Christian ideas there that we could learn from and slowly push back the Christian influence in our area. It should be stressed, in our education system, that we Dutch are a Germanic people, with a Germanic heritage.





I don't think Scandinavian and German values are that simillar though.

That's because Germany and the Netherlands have been Christianized. And that should be pushed back.. and that's where you people come in. I recommend you to watch this series (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=546z6yVa6Vc).

[poiuytrewq0987]

Then I think that you should start paying back what you owe to the Netherlands. We could use our money better.


Your economy is $832 billion whereas ours is not even close to that at only $20 billion. I think you can spare a few euros loans that we can and do pay back.

[The Lawspeaker]

Your economy is $832 billion whereas ours is not even close to that at only $20 billion. I think you can spare a few euros loans that we can and do pay back.
No we can't. We have our own debts to clean up, our own elderly and handicapped to look after and our own problems.

[poiuytrewq0987]

No we can't. We have our own debts to clean up, our own elderly and handicapped to look after and our own problems.

Your debt is around 60% of GDP, and you overspend your budget by around 40 billion euros. That's a bit of overspending but it's not as if you cover the whole loan. The ECB does and that's headquartered in Frankfurt. Your tax euros do have a part in going to fund loans but only a very tiny portion of it actually goes to Macedonia.

[The Lawspeaker]

We should stop paying for Europe anyway and go back to the Guilder. We have overspend our budget by around 88 billion Guilders. I think that that is pretty scandalous and needs to be corrected. Europe has cost us a lot of money. And it is not just the 60 % (it's actually more.. I think 66 % or so) debt of GDP but also the ticking time bomb that our combined mortgage debt is.

So that's why I think we should withdraw most of the home mortgage interest deduction and take our loss. Like the Swedes did during the 1990s. We should also get rid of the mandatory pensions: if you want to go at 62 you should but you will get less. If you want to go at 65 (like is the case now): that's fine. If you want to keep working and you're fit.. go right ahead. There are people that want to keep working.

[rhiannon]

No, I had German in School and I much prefer English.

We had the choice between German and Spanish. I went for German:) But I would have gone for Norwegian over any of them if it had been available:thumbs up

[rhiannon]

The same Anglo-American culture that has ruined our youth and people ? ;) Then we better look at traditional Scandinavian, German and Germanic values in general.

Civis, look...I know there is a lot about American or Anglo culture that could use some serious revamping...but I must say that your rabid hatred of all things American/Anglo is starting to wear thin. I like you overall, but sometimes it hurts to read your constant assault on my country. I certainly don't do this to yours:(

I see so much culture and ethnic bashing on this forum....how is that supposed to help with the Preservation of all European-derived peoples? Preservation starts by showing a modicum of respect for all European cultures and their diaspora, even if they are not to your liking.

Pallantides is right. Scandinavian and German values are NOT the same.

[The Lawspeaker]

We had the choice between German and Spanish. I went for German:) But I would have gone for Norwegian over any of them if it had been available:thumbs up
The only reason why German could be used a common language is because some 90 million people in Europe speak it as the native language. In that respect it's the most numerous Germanic language in Europe. But I think that the Germanic Council should do what the Nordic Council has done and adopt all the Germanic languages in use in the member-states as working languages.

Germanischer Rat
Germaanse Raad
Germanisk Råd
Germansk råd
Germanska rådet
Germaanske Ried

(I am not sure what it would be for the Faroese, Luxembourgers and the Icelanders)

It would not supplant the Nordic Council or the Benelux but merely augment it.

[Aces High]

Civis, look...I know there is a lot about American culture that could use some serious revamping

Americans have no culture.....except crappy consumer culture and Hollywood........thats why you have to come to European preservation sites,but thats ok,just dont go on about American culture because its a contradiction in terms.

[The Lawspeaker]

Pallantides is right. Scandinavian and German values are NOT the same.
But you don't know much about cultural patterns here (being a colonial). The reason for that is that the West Germanics have been more thoroughly Christianized and we should be de-Christianised.

[rhiannon]

Americans have no culture.....except crappy consumer culture and Hollywood........thats why you have to come to European preservation sites,but thats ok,just dont go on about American culture because its a contradiction in terms.

Have I carried on about American culture? Really? Nope.

You are not English, but South African. You have no right to lecture me about all things European, because you are no more native European than I am.

You are just another immigrant, sir.

[The Lawspeaker]

Have I carried on about American culture? Really? Nope.

You are not English, but South African. You have no right to lecture me about all things European, because you are no more native European than I am.

You are just another immigrant, sir.
Raised from English parents.. so not much of an immigrant. Unlike you who has no direct ties to Europe. Please pipe down, byrnecres. :coffee::thumbs up

[rhiannon]

Raised from English parents.. so not much of an immigrant. Unlike you who has no direct ties to Europe. Please pipe down, byrnecres. :coffee::thumbs up

So? He's rude to people on here constantly. He really is not as great or as funny as he thinks he is.:rolleyes:

Civis, I have tried to be respectful and nice to him because that's what decent people do....but it is to no avail.

It's not like I'm the lover of all things American, either. Unlike some other posters in here, I try to see my country through impartial eyes.

But FUCK, the constant slamming on the US that happens starts to get even on my nerves, lol

We are not ALL fat, stupid, and obsessed with material bullshit. Nor are we ALL addicted to trash culture. I fucking hate that shit.:rolleyes:

[The Lawspeaker]

So? He's rude to people on here constantly. He really is not as great or as funny as he thinks he is.:rolleyes:

Civis, I have tried to be respectful and nice to him because that's what decent people do....but it is to no avail.

It's not like I'm the lover of all things American, either. Unlike some other posters in here, I try to see my country through impartial eyes.

But FUCK, the constant slamming on the US that happens starts to get even on my nerves, lol

We are not ALL fat, stupid, and obsessed with material bullshit. Nor are we ALL addicted to trash culture. I fucking hate that shit.:rolleyes:
No. We know that but you do realize that there are people here that are fed up with Anglo-American influence of any sort ? That they want a return to their own values and probably even discover what is hidden beneath the veneer of modernism and the Semitic nonsense that has been applied to it over the past 1000 years ?

The reason why I like Scandinavia so much is that it is much purer then the rest of (Germanic) Europe. Unless you find the time to look for a remote village in the Alps.

[rhiannon]

No. We know that but you do realize that there are people here that are fed up with Anglo-American influence of any sort ? That they want a return to their own values and probably even discover what is hidden beneath the veneer of modernism and the Semitic nonsense that has been applied over the past 1000 years ?

The reason why I like Scandinavia so much is that it is much purer then the rest of (Germanic) Europe. Unless you find the time to look for a remote village in the Alps.

I understand and fully respect that:)

It is my philosophy to show respect and deference for all the cultures of Europe and its diaspora. I would wish to see the same in return.

I cannot control what influence this country has had on your nation or any other. Yet....there are some aspects of America that are really great, and you would have to live here for a time to find them for yourself.

However, I recognize that this country is also full of problems, and I have no wish for us (the US) to play any sort of role in the eradication of indigenous cultural mores and values native to the nations in Europe.:)

The fact is this: Though my ancestors have lived in this country for greater than 300 years, they still spent one helluva longer period of time living in Europe prior to coming here. Why would I want to see MY European homelands destroyed? KWIM?

[The Lawspeaker]

The thing is... that they aren't your homelands. You don't speak the language, nor do you know the culture. That's something that never ceases to amaze me about Americans: they call it their homelands while it isn't their homeland. We have completely different ties to our countries then you have.

When you walk in your walk in your homeland you are a foreigner and a stranger and you need someone to translate everything for you. I am sorry: but that's how it is. While we live here, are born and bred here and will die here. This is our homeland. America is your homeland: please don't forget that.

Now when it comes to culture: I think it's time for the Germanic countries (at least for the Netherlands) to shake off that Semitic, Latin and Anglo-American veneer and rediscover our Germanic past in every way possible. Even when it comes to religion. It is of course possible to combine the two. I think it would be possible to combine local folklore and Christianity like the Icelanders have done. We, in the Netherlands, should drop last names (at least those made compulsory by Napoleon) and return to patronyms and names based on ones profession or habitat.

Something with respect to our Germanic heritage should be added to the curriculum: heemkunde (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_history) should be added to normal history lessons and children should be taken into the field and taught about the ancestors, on how they lived and how our present language and culture was formed. And preferably students should be taken to archaeological sites so they can be educated on the spot by teachers and archaeologists.

[Siberyak]

The thing is... that they aren't your homelands. You don't speak the language,e nor do you know the culture. That's something that never ceases to amaze me about Americans: they call it their homelands while it isn't their homeland. We have completely different ties to our countries then you have.

When you walk in your walk in your homeland you are a foreigner and a stranger and you need someone to translate everything for you. I am sorry: but that's how it is. While we live here, are born and bred here and will die here. This is our homeland. America is your homeland: please don't forget that.

Now when it comes to culture: I think it's time for the Germanic countries (at least for the Netherlands) to shake off that Semitic, Latin and Anglo-American veneer and rediscover our Germanic past in every way possible. Even when it comes to religion. It is of course possible to combine the two. I think it would be possible to combine local folklore and Christianity like the Icelanders have done. We, in the Netherlands, should drop last names (at least those made compulsory by Napoleon) and return to patronyms and names based on ones occupation.

American culture does produce a lot of trash. Especially in Jew Hollywood. Put ultimately its the peoples fault for swallowing that poison.

[Siberyak]

The thing is... that they aren't your homelands. You don't speak the language, nor do you know the culture. That's something that never ceases to amaze me about Americans: they call it their homelands while it isn't their homeland. We have completely different ties to our countries then you have.

When you walk in your walk in your homeland you are a foreigner and a stranger and you need someone to translate everything for you. I am sorry: but that's how it is. While we live here, are born and bred here and will die here. This is our homeland. America is your homeland: please don't forget that.

Now when it comes to culture: I think it's time for the Germanic countries (at least for the Netherlands) to shake off that Semitic, Latin and Anglo-American veneer and rediscover our Germanic past in every way possible. Even when it comes to religion. It is of course possible to combine the two. I think it would be possible to combine local folklore and Christianity like the Icelanders have done. We, in the Netherlands, should drop last names (at least those made compulsory by Napoleon) and return to patronyms and names based on ones profession or habitat.

Something with respect to our Germanic heritage should be added to the curriculum: heemkunde should be added to normal history lessons and children should be taken into the field and taught about the ancestors, on how they lived and how our present culture was formed. And preferably the kids should be taken to archaeological sites.


Civis the vast majority of people of people in the USA refer to there ethnic orgin before they refer to themselves as Americans.

[The Lawspeaker]

Civis the vast majority of people of people in the USA refer to there ethnic orgin before they refer to themselves as Americans.
They should stop doing that. They aren't Dutch, or German, or English. They are American.

[billErobreren]

They should stop doing that. They aren't Dutch, or German, or English. They are American.

Weeell:D what happens if one is fathered by one of those(well a Dane none of the ones you mentioned, in my case) & not an American citizen:ohwell:

Am I not entitled to use the term "Danish-Ameican"?...I don't anyways:icon_rolleyes: but what of it?

[Siberyak]

They should stop doing that. They aren't Dutch, or German, or English. They are American.

No such as an American. Unless you are a native American. have you ever heard anyone say "they look American" I sure haven't. Tell me what an American "looks like ? The USA is one of the most multicultural places in the world.

[The Lawspeaker]

Weeell:D what happens if one is fathered by one of those(well a Dane none of the ones you mentioned, in my case) & not an American citizen:ohwell:

Am I not entitled to use the term "Danish-Ameican"?...I don't anyways:icon_rolleyes: but what of it?
Then you are. Particularly if you hold two passports and speak Danish and English and know your way around two cultures like a native (particularly if you travel between Denmark and the U.S). But your son wouldn't be a Danish-American but an American.

[billErobreren]

Then you are. Particularly if you hold two passports and speak Danish and English and know your way around two cultures like a native. But your son wouldn't be a Danish-American but an American.

I do speak Danish(standard, which is weird considering the fact that he's from Skagen) suck at writing in it though(my damn father wanted me to learn it, good thing too, but we lost touch years ago) & with my living here I predict that my Danish may die in a matter of 10 years since it doesn't get much use, but luckily I have a shit ton of movies in Danish...I suppose it won't die as long as keep quoting their lines while still knowing what they say & make enough money to finally leave this dump:grumpy: so damn expensive to live there. don't get me wrong I love this place it's the people I can do without.

[The Lawspeaker]

I do speak Danish(standard, which is weird considering the fact that he's from Skagen) suck at writing in it though(my damn father wanted me to learn it, good thing too, but we lost touch years ago) & with my living here I predict that my Danish may die in a matter of 10 years since it doesn't get much use, but luckily I have a shit ton of movies in Danish...I suppose it won't die as long as keep quoting their lines while still knowing what they say & make enough money to finally leave this dump:grumpy: so damn expensive to live there
Then you are a Danish-American but that stops at you. Your children and grandchildren will be American as they have no direct ties to Denmark (your grandchildren much less as they would probably marry American and only speak English).

[billErobreren]

Then you are a Danish-American but that stops at you. Your children and grandchildren will be American as they have no direct ties to Denmark (your grandchildren much less as they would probably marry American and only speak English).

meh sounds fair...still don't use the term much though:D

[Pallantides]

Have I carried on about American culture? Really? Nope.

You definitely do have a rich culture. Claiming otherwise is pure ignorance.
:)


And I'm no talking about "Jew" hollywod and that sort.

[rhiannon]

The thing is... that they aren't your homelands. You don't speak the language, nor do you know the culture. That's something that never ceases to amaze me about Americans: they call it their homelands while it isn't their homeland. We have completely different ties to our countries then you have.

When you walk in your walk in your homeland you are a foreigner and a stranger and you need someone to translate everything for you. I am sorry: but that's how it is. While we live here, are born and bred here and will die here. This is our homeland. America is your homeland: please don't forget that.


It is unfair of you, Civis, to go around telling me or my fellow Americans that we have no right or claim to our ancestral homelands. That shows extreme arrogance on your part. Europe as my ancestral homeland, is not the same as making the claim that Europe is my home. Never have I claimed it to be such, either.

Please do not forget that.:)

[rhiannon]

They should stop doing that. They aren't Dutch, or German, or English. They are American.

No, they shouldn't. My ancestors lived through the damned Black Plague right alongside yours;) My ancestors spent the greater part of human history living in Europe....again, right alongside yours. 300 years is but a drop in the bucket of time, relatively speaking.

Just because we refer to ourselves by our ancestries, doesn't mean we are in any way trying to detract from your status as a Dutchman.

[The Lawspeaker]

It is unfair of you, Civis, to go around telling me or my fellow Americans that we have no right or claim to our ancestral homelands. That shows extreme arrogance on your part. Europe as my ancestral homeland, is not the same as making the claim that Europe is my home. Never have I claimed it to be such, either.

Please do not forget that.:)
I think that since we live here that maybe we have more rights to determine who we consider European or not. I don't consider a Swedish/English/Norwegian/German/Dutch American to be Dutch in any way, shape or form.

Particularly if it doesn't speak a word of my tongue and comes along with romantic notions of walking in wooden shoes and living in a windmill (yes we know the types) and growing tulips. That's about as far as their romantic, misguided notions go.

I am sorry.. but that's what it is. Unless one of your parents was a native born European and unless you know the language and the culture as your own and you hold a passport I don't think you can call this your homeland. Sorry. Hell - a nice example: Hansje Brinker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Brinker,_or_The_Silver_Skates). An American fantasy. Complete and utter rubbish.


300 years is but a drop in the bucket of time, relatively speaking.Not really.

[Siberyak]

[QUOTE=Civis Batavi;666395]I think that since we live here that maybe we have more rights to determine who we consider European or not. I don't consider a Swedish/English/Norwegian/German/Dutch American to be Dutch in any way, shape or form.

Particularly if it doesn't speak a word of my tongue and comes along with romantic notions of walking in wooden shoes and living in a windmill (yes we know the types) and growing tulips. That's about as far as their romantic, misguided notions go.

I am sorry.. but that's what it is. Unless one of your parents was a native born European and unless you know the language and the culture as your own and you hold a passport I don't think you can call this your homeland. Sorry.


Not really.[/QUOTE

I am sure you would rather see people of European descent back in Europe. Rather than Arabs Negros etc.

[rhiannon]

I think that since we live here that maybe we have more rights to determine who we consider European or not. I don't consider a Swedish/English/Norwegian/German/Dutch American to be Dutch in any way, shape or form.

Particularly if it doesn't speak a word of my tongue and comes along with romantic notions of walking in wooden shoes and living in a windmill (yes we know the types) and growing tulips. That's about as far as their romantic, misguided notions go.

I am sorry.. but that's what it is. Unless one of your parents was a native born European and unless you know the language and the culture as your own and you hold a passport I don't think you can call this your homeland. Sorry.

Ancestral homeland and homeland are not the same!!

For that matter, you refuse to call any person living in your country who DOES speak Dutch AND has lived there all their lives *Dutch* merely on the basis of their immigrant parentage! Even if they have assimilated fully into Dutch culture AND feel every bit as tied to it as you do....you have said time and time again in this forum that you refuse to acknowledge them at all.

It looks like you are trying to have it both ways.

My ancestors came from Europe. Without them, there would be no me. Please do not attempt to take the only ties I have to a land that I do value and hold dear. Can't say anything about other Americans on here, but I have been to Europe and have reasons for my appreciation of it.

Thank you.

[The Lawspeaker]

I think that since we live here that maybe we have more rights to determine who we consider European or not. I don't consider a Swedish/English/Norwegian/German/Dutch American to be Dutch in any way, shape or form.

Particularly if it doesn't speak a word of my tongue and comes along with romantic notions of walking in wooden shoes and living in a windmill (yes we know the types) and growing tulips. That's about as far as their romantic, misguided notions go.

I am sorry.. but that's what it is. Unless one of your parents was a native born European and unless you know the language and the culture as your own and you hold a passport I don't think you can call this your homeland. Sorry.


Not really.

I am sure you would rather see people of European descent back in Europe. Rather than Arabs Negros etc.
I'd kindly see both piss off. Unless married to a native born citizen (in our case Dutch), or doing specialized work.. yada yada.

The same rules should apply to all. White nationalism is an American invention that is pretty alien here.

[The Lawspeaker]

Ancestral homeland and homeland are not the same!!
That's what sets you apart from a European. Because here, where people are generally belonging to one single ethnicity, it is exactly the same thing.



For that matter, you refuse to call any person living in your country who DOES speak Dutch AND has lived there all their lives *Dutch* merely on the basis of their immigrant parentage! Even if they have assimilated fully into Dutch culture AND feel every bit as tied to it as you do....you have said time and time again in this forum that you refuse to acknowledge them at all.
Dutch is Dutch. Dutch father, Dutch mother. Foreign parent, Dutch parent. The right of blood. Directly transmitted blood.


It looks like you are trying to have it both ways.
No.. it is you that REFUSES to understand what ius sanguinis and ethnic kinship are all about. Don't bother: it's a cultural thing here in Europe.



My ancestors came from Europe. Without them, there would be no me. Please do not attempt to take the only ties I have to a land that I do value and hold dear. Can't say anything about other Americans on here, but I have been to Europe and have reasons for my appreciation of it.

Thank you.
You have no ties to us. None. You only speak English, you have no direct family ties here (no Dutch father or Dutch mother.. or both for that matter). You don't hold a passport, you don't know the culture. You are a perfect stranger. Just as much as any Arab. Deal with it.

[Siberyak]

I'd kindly see both piss off. Unless married to a native born citizen (in our case Dutch), or doing specialized work.. yada yada.

The same rules should apply to all. White nationalism is an American invention that is pretty alien here.

I should tell my Dutch neighbor to get lost then.

[The Lawspeaker]

I should tell my Dutch neighbor to get lost then.
How Dutch is he ?

[rhiannon]

I'd kindly see both piss off. Unless married to a native born citizen (in our case Dutch), or doing specialized work.. yada yada.

The same rules should apply to all. White nationalism is an American invention that is pretty alien here.

Agree with the second part of this post.

As for the piss off, part.....exactly why? I mean, you could come to America and decide to immigrate here....and Americans would welcome you on the most part....up to and including me. I know you hate us and all of that....but still.:)

Do you feel the same for a German or an Italian citizen that wished to move to the Netherlands as well? Curious..

[The Lawspeaker]

Agree with the second part of this post.

As for the piss off, part.....exactly why? I mean, you could come to America and decide to immigrate here....and Americans would welcome you on the most part....up to and including me. I know you hate us and all of that....but still.:)
It's no hatred. It's just making perfectly clear that there is no kinship. I would be "another damn foreigner" in America and you would be "another damn foreigner" here.


Do you feel the same for a German or an Italian citizen that wished to move to the Netherlands as well? Curious..
Exactly the same. They better have a good reason to go here. But and that's something you wouldn't understand either: here someone from Limburg Province moving to a village in Frisia Province is a foreigner there, an outsider (and sometimes they tend to show it too). An American would never understand that. A European would.

[Siberyak]

How Dutch is he ?

She was born and raised

[The Lawspeaker]

She was born and raised
Why did she go there ?

[poiuytrewq0987]

Agree with the second part of this post.

As for the piss off, part.....exactly why? I mean, you could come to America and decide to immigrate here....and Americans would welcome you on the most part....up to and including me. I know you hate us and all of that....but still.:)

Do you feel the same for a German or an Italian citizen that wished to move to the Netherlands as well? Curious..

Trust me, Civis Batavi has no intention of immigrating to America. :D I am only here for education and economic opportunity which I have the fullest intention to transfer back to my country. :)

[Siberyak]

She meet her wealthy American husband on vacation in Spain.

[rhiannon]

That's what sets you apart from a European. Because here, where people are generally belonging to one single ethnicity, it is exactly the same thing.


Dutch is Dutch. Dutch father, Dutch mother. Foreign parent, Dutch parent. The right of blood. Directly transmitted blood.


No.. it is you that REFUSES to understand what ius sanguinis and ethnic kinship are all about. Don't bother: it's a cultural thing here in Europe.


How do you think ancestries exist in the first place? Directly transmitted blood.:coffee: It's not like we Americans just got dropped out of the sky on our heads or something. We all have ancestries that come from elsewhere. You can do nothing to change that, or change our desire to keep that connection to our ancestors alive.

I am not trying to be a douche here, Civis....really. I don't agree with your stance, although I do understand why you feel the way you do:)

Why don't you expound a little bit on the ethnic kinship aspect of European culture, please?

[rhiannon]

Trust me, Civis Batavi has no intention of immigrating to America. :D I am only here for education and economic opportunity which I have the fullest intention to transfer back to my country. :)

I know that:) However, he would still be welcome if in fact, he ever did make the choice to do so.

[The Lawspeaker]

She meet her wealthy American husband on vacation in Spain.
Here you go. She is there because she married a citizen. Their children would be Dutch-Americans (if they speak the language, hold two passports, are raised with two cultures)... the next generation is American with no ties to the Netherlands.

An American marrying a Dutchman shouldn't be a problem either. But it's not like you can just consider your random European country as your homeland because it isn't nor will ever be.

[rhiannon]

It's no hatred. It's just making perfectly clear that there is no kinship. I would be "another damn foreigner" in America and you would be "another damn foreigner" here.

Exactly the same. They better have a good reason to go here. But and that's something you wouldn't understand either: here someone from Limburg Province moving to a village in Frisia Province is a foreigner there, an outsider (and sometimes they tend to show it too). An American would never understand that. A European would.

Okay. I can deal with that. :)

[Siberyak]

Here you go. She is there because she married a citizen. An American marrying a Dutchman shouldn't be a problem either. But it's not like you can just consider your random European country as your homeland because it isn't nor will ever be.

On the positive side he is a white American an they have 3 blonde children.

[poiuytrewq0987]

I know that:) However, he would still be welcome if in fact, he ever did make the choice to do so.

Yes, but just what good reasons might there be for him to uproot and move to the U.S.? I can't think of any. The economy in Netherlands is good unlike Macedonia. There's no reason for him to leave his mother country to some strange land across a large ocean to settle in a foreign country, un-Dutch country.

The only reason my parents and I even moved to the U.S. is because we knew that Yugoslavia wouldn't last with Tito's death. They got us here and have succceeded their goal of economic exploitation of the U.S. We have a net worth of half a million. I think that is pretty successful for a poor Macedonian family who didn't come with a single dollar in their pockets and had average education.

I am still here in the U.S. for only one reason and that is education. The U.S. do have excellent colleges whose degrees are indeed envied by many. I intend to complete my Business education and get a MBA and so I can expand my family's net worth and contribute positively to Macedonian economy. Nothing of this would have been possible without philharmonic Americans who let us settle and economically exploit the country, of course. :D

[The Lawspeaker]

How do you think ancestries exist in the first place? Directly transmitted blood.:coffee: It's not like we Americans just got dropped out of the sky on our heads or something. We all have ancestries that come from elsewhere. You can do nothing to change that, or change our desire to keep that connection to our ancestors alive.
Actually directly transmitted blood means. Parent-child. That's it. It stops there. They are not your direct ancestors.


I am not trying to be a douche here, Civis....really. I don't agree with your stance, although I do understand why you feel the way you do:)
You are directly ignoring a characteristic of European kindred thought and European nationality laws: direct descent as opposed to ius soli in America.


Why don't you expound a little bit on the ethnic kinship aspect of European culture, please?
It's very simple. I just did:

We in Europe have peoples, nations. Which grew over time and which share common ancestry, common culture (for the most part). So: a Dutch child is a child with either two or one Dutch parent(s).

Someone with a Dutch great-grandfather is not Dutch but just a foreigner.

Do you hold this passport and were you raised with the language and culture ? Did you visit your grandparents here ?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a6/Paspoort_NL.jpg/220px-Paspoort_NL.jpg

[Siberyak]

Yes, but just what good reasons might there be for him to uproot and move to the U.S.? I can't think of any. The economy in Netherlands is good unlike Macedonia. There's no reason for him to leave his mother country to some strange land across a large ocean to settle in a foreign country, un-Dutch country.

I cant wait to leave this fuckin state. it seems like whites are outnumbered almost everwhere you go in this city.

[The Lawspeaker]

On the positive side he is a white American an they have 3 blonde children.
Look at it from the bright side: we have made a genetic investment in you lot. Maybe it helps to improve your stock. :wink

[poiuytrewq0987]

I cant wait to leave this fuckin state. it seems like whites are outnumbered almost everwhere you go in this city.

Yeah, Pcity can be pretty harsh in that regard. It's not as bad down here where they are usually located in central and southern parts of the city. Not that they bother me, I became used to them but I can understand why you might have stronger feelings since it is your home.

[Siberyak]

Yeah, Pcity can be pretty harsh in that regard. It's not as bad down here where they are usually located in central and southern parts of the city. Not that they bother me, I became used to them but I can understand why you might have stronger feelings since it is your home.

I am now also seeing more Negros than I can ever remember. It seems like I see one every 30 seconds

[poiuytrewq0987]

I am now also seeing more Negros than I can ever remember. It seems like I see one every 30 seconds

It was the first thing I noticed when I started to come up there often. There are barely any blacks down here but I seem to see them around on every corner here and there in your city. I felt like I was back in London, lol.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Look at it from the bright side: we have made a genetic investment in you lot. Maybe it helps to improve your stock. :wink

That makes me think of one thing. You know how you complain about the potential overpopulation of the Netherlands? Maybe you could send over some Dutch to Macedonia to relieve overpopulation in your country? :D The Netherlands is like two Macedonias and we need at least 4 to 5 million more people to be proportional to your country. :P

[The Lawspeaker]

That makes me think of one thing. You know how you complain about the potential overpopulation of the Netherlands? Maybe you could send over some Dutch to Macedonia to relieve overpopulation in your country? :D The Netherlands is like two Macedonias and we need at least 4 to 5 million more people to be proportional to your country. :P
That would destroy your societal make-up. It would even be better to match as many adventurous single Dutch with single Americans as possible and export a couple of million people after we have kicked out our immigrants.

It's not that there is an American society that can be ruined (it would actually be a real improvement). And any genetic investments would only improve the stock. :D:wink

[poiuytrewq0987]

That would destroy your societal make-up. It would even be better to match as many adventurous Dutch with Americans and export a couple of million people after we have kicked out our immigrants.

It's not that there is an American society that can be ruined. And genetic investments would only improve the stock. :D:wink

That's definitely true but I wouldn't mind as long the Dutch moved to Macedonia with intentions to learn Macedonian and assimilate to our society. We've had problems with our population growth for the last 30 years or so because of high emigration rates and low birth rates all stemming from our low wages. The problem isn't unique to us as other former Yugoslav countries are experiencing just the same thing.

[The Lawspeaker]

That's definitely true but I wouldn't mind as long the Dutch moved to Macedonia with intentions to learn Macedonian and assimilate to our society. We've had problems with our population growth for the last 30 years or so because of high emigration rates and low birth rates all stemming from our low wages. The problem isn't unique to us as other former Yugoslav countries are experiencing just the same thing.
What your country needs is young (preferably pure-blooded) Macedonians.. that are willing to a good bunch of kids - not a bunch of integrated foreigners.

[Siberyak]

That would destroy your societal make-up. It would even be better to match as many adventurous single Dutch with single Americans as possible and export a couple of million people after we have kicked out our immigrants.

It's not that there is an American society that can be ruined (it would actually be a real improvement). And any genetic investments would only improve the stock. :D:wink

When exactly are the Dutch gonna kick out there immigrants ?

[poiuytrewq0987]

What your country needs is young (preferably pure-blooded) Macedonians.. that are willing to a good bunch of kids - not a bunch of integrated foreigners.

Yes, but only if we could be paid the same wages as you Dutch. If our wages jumped from the family wage of $500 a month to $2,000 or $4,000 a month then you'll see Macedonians have a lot more children they can actually feed.

[The Lawspeaker]

Yes, but only if we could be paid the same wages as you Dutch. If our wages jumped from the family wage of $500 a month to $2,000 or $4,000 a month then you'll see Macedonians have a lot more children they can actually feed.
That's an internal problem that we can't solve. But we have "high" wages and increasingly small families. We also have very high taxes.


When exactly are the Dutch gonna kick out there immigrants ?
Man... if I had my way they would have been gone already.

[rhiannon]

Civis, I understand a little better now.
In the US, we don't call ourselves ethnically American. We are American by nationality only. We don't have the homogeneity as a society to ever call ourselves Ethnic Americans. Yet, like most human beings, we Americans are just as interested in where we came from or where our ancestors lived and how they lived as anyone else is. In fact, we may have an even stronger desire to know about it and to feel connected to it because we don't have family histories that stretch back through the generations all in one small village or even in one country

I cannot explain to you how unsettling it is to feel *rootless,* because you'd have be a Heinz 57 American yourself to understand. This is the reason I have argued with you.:)

[poiuytrewq0987]

That's an internal problem that we can't solve. But we have "high" wages and increasingly small families. We also have very high taxes.

If all the foreign investors who set up shop in Macedonia could start paying Macedonians same wages they pay their employees in Germany or Austria then the problem wouldn't even exist.

[Siberyak]

It was the first thing I noticed when I started to come up there often. There are barely any blacks down here but I seem to see them around on every corner here and there in your city. I felt like I was back in London, lol.

dusan I walked into a store and an Albanian women was standing there. Looking all brown and Turkish.

[The Lawspeaker]

Civis, I understand a little better now.
In the US, we don't call ourselves ethnically American. We are American by nationality only. We don't have the homogeneity as a society to ever call ourselves Ethnic Americans. Yet, like most human beings, we Americans are just as interested in where we came from or where our ancestors lived and how they lived as anyone else is. In fact, we may have an even stronger desire to know about it and to feel connected to it because we don't have family histories that stretch back through the generations all in one small village or even in one country
That's not entirely true (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ethnicity). You lot have been in the New World for some 350 years now. You have had your time to mix and forge a nation. You have become an ethnicity of your own. With native Americans, old stock Americans and new stock Americans. (and of course ethnic minorities like the blacks). The old stock and the new stock will eventually, have already and are mix(ing/ed) with native Americans and there you have your American nation. Your American ethnicity. Furthermore: the Southerners consider themselves to be an ethnicity. You lot have your own history, your own culture: why claim ours as yours ?


I cannot explain to you how unsettling it is to feel *rootless,* because you'd have be a Heinz 57 American yourself to understand. This is the reason I have argued with you.:)
You have roots. Your own. Your new world ancestors.

[poiuytrewq0987]

dusan I walked into a store and an Albanian women was standing there. Looking all brown and Turkish.

lol. There are some really tanned Albanians but I have seen plenty of just white Albanian girls who are very pretty. I had a crush on one Albanian girl back in Skopje, she was very pale, had freckles and black hair but her parents were Muslim and they don't let us Christians marry their daughters. :rolleyes:

[The Lawspeaker]

Here is my brief advise for Americans (don't take it wrong): grow the hell up. You have left Europe a long time ago. You have your own culture by now, your own form of English (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qq9B9RzSrgQ&feature=related) (which can sometimes be considered it's own language with it's own words, it's own pronunciation and it's own grammar), your own national myths, your own established history, your own dreams.

You're not Europeans. You are your nation. Unshackle yourself from your own mental delusions that you're still European. Don't think that.. be yourselves instead. You are your own foundation. You are Americans.

Develop yourselves separate from Europe: adapt your culture and your language even further to suit your conventions and stop modelling yourselves on us. Because you're not us.

[rhiannon]

That's not entirely true (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_ethnicity). You lot have been in the New World for some 350 years now. You have had your time to mix and forge a nation. You have become an ethnicity of your own. With native Americans, old stock Americans and new stock Americans. (and of course ethnic minorities like the blacks). The old stock and the new stock will eventually, have already and are mix(ing/ed) with native Americans and there you have your American nation. Your American ethnicity. Furthermore: the Southerners consider themselves to be an ethnicity. You lot have your own history, your own culture: why claim ours as yours ?


You have roots. Your own. Your new world ancestors.

It doesn't give me the same sense of belonging as you might think it would. It never has, and I rather doubt it ever will.:shrug:

As mentioned already by Siberyak, there is rarely a time when you hear someone say *Oh, you look AMERICAN*....so, no, American is not ethnicity in the same way German or Dutch would be.

That just doesn't happen.

On this note...there is no point carrying this discussion further, for we are at an impasse.

The good thing about you, Civis, is that you don't go around attacking people for disagreeing with you. I meant what I said when I said you are Civilized in your opinions:)

[The Lawspeaker]

It doesn't give me the same sense of belonging as you might think it would. It never has, and I rather doubt it ever will.:shrug:
Well.. your Founding Fathers did want the United States to be the great alternative for Europe. Just think about that. You people should continue mixing and fusing. Finding your own solutions, your own ideas. Sometimes borrowing from Europe and then making it completely different. Be creative.. be your own. It's a natural process.


As mentioned already by Siberyak, there is rarely a time when you hear someone say *Oh, you look AMERICAN*....so, no, American is not ethnicity in the same way German or Dutch would be.
Actually. Here we can spot an American from a mile off... :wink
In the old days because he was taller then a European. Now because Americans have a different way of doing things. A different body language, if you may.




On this note...there is no point carrying this discussion further, for we are at an impasse.

The good thing about you, Civis, is that you don't go around attacking people for disagreeing with you. I meant what I said when I said you are Civilized in your opinions:)

Tis a shame :) I really think you should look into your own history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States), your own culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_culture), your own literature, your own music, your own cuisine, your own regional history etc.. and continue developing it. Instead of looking at us all the time.

[rhiannon]

Actually. Here we can spot an American from a mile off... :wink
In the old days because he was taller then a European. Now because Americans have a different way of doing things. A different body language, if you may.

That never once happened to me when I spent almost a week in your country back in 1999. I was ALWAYS spoken to in Dutch, first:)

The same thing happened to me in both Germany and Norway. So.....:confused:

[The Lawspeaker]

That never once happened to me when I spent almost a week in your country back in 1999. I was ALWAYS spoken to in Dutch, first:)

The same thing happened to me in both Germany and Norway. So.....:confused:
Then you seem to be different from most Americans as we tend to spot them from a mile off. They tend to walk differently from us. Make more gestures, talk louder.. much louder.

[rhiannon]

Well.. your Founding Fathers did want the United States to be the great alternative for Europe. Just think about that. You people should continue mixing and fusing. Finding your own solutions, your own ideas. Sometimes borrowing from Europe and then making it completely different. Be creative.. be your own. It's a natural process.

Tis a shame :) I really think you should look into your own history (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_United_States), your own culture (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_culture), your own literature, your own music, your cuisine.. and continue developing it. Instead of looking at us all the time.

I am not so pathetic as you make me sound. You've made it appear like we go around sniveling about being American rather than European, lolol. It's not exactly like that. But I don't expect you to anymore understand where I come from as an American as you expect me to understand where you are coming from as a European:)

It's cool. You are a pretty decent fellow anyway:)

[rhiannon]

Then you seem to be different from most Americans as we tend to spot them from a mile off. They tend to walk differently from us. Make more gestures, talk louder.. much louder.

I'm pretty quiet in public as a rule. Plus, I am of NW European stock myself, so my phenotype blended right in:)

I know the types to which you are referring to....and you are right, they can be a pretty obnoxious lot, lol!

[The Lawspeaker]

I'm pretty quiet in public as a rule. Plus, I am of NW European stock myself, so my phenotype blended right in:)

I know the types to which you are referring to....and you are right, they can be a pretty obnoxious lot, lol!
It's probably because of a cultural difference. America is a huge country with lots and lots and lots of space. Most European countries are not large when compared to your average American state.

That of course explains why Americans value personal space even more then we do (I am the odd exception here lol as I have a very American feeling for personal space): because they have the space for it.

A lot of them are loud and boisterous compared to us. An American "It is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease" would not work in North-Western Europe at all. Here in the Netherlands we say the opposite thing (and a Scandinavian, accustomed to Jante Law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jante_Law) would recognise it): it's the highest trees that catch the wind. (and it's negative: it means - the more fuzz you cause the more trouble you get), or "children who ask are skipped" (you wait until it's your turn to get something) and "the highest blade of grass gets cut off." (it's difficult to translate from Dutch as we say: "met je kop boven het maaiveld uitkomen" --- litt. having your head above the pasture).

So maybe typically North-West European is the tall poppy syndrome (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tall_poppy_syndrome).

[Aces High]

You are not English, but South African.

I was born in Rhodesia not South Africa.......jesus you cant even get your facts right.

So you are right...im a xhosa...no a bantu immigrant.....a kaffir....a nigger,you have found me out and put me in my place.....ooooh the humiliation.:rolleyes:

[Hevneren]

http://profile.ak.fbcdn.net/hprofile-ak-snc4/50555_24511279440_7476855_n.jpg


The more I am thinking of it.. the more attractive the idea becomes. But I am not sure about whether Britain would fit in such a Union. It should be something along the lines of the Nordic Council but with it's own elected parliament and mandatory referendums. And in the future maybe a customs union and currency union but that's something for the long term.

My problem with unions is that the more powerful and populous nations often overshadow and dominate the smaller nations. We already see this with France and Germany in the EU. In a Germanic union, Germany's role would be even stronger. I'd fear that the interests of other nations would not be addressed equally.

[Siegfried]

I don't think so. We need to preserve our own individuual culture and nationlities. Of course, a sense of unity between Germanics wouldn't be too bad, but not to the extent that we're one nation.

[Hevneren]

Americans have no culture.....except crappy consumer culture and Hollywood........thats why you have to come to European preservation sites,but thats ok,just dont go on about American culture because its a contradiction in terms.

Byrnecres isn't one of the "America! Fuck yeah!" crowd and I haven't seen her being anything but respectful on this forum, which is certainly more than can be said for you.

[mymy]

I like idea of cultural unions, not so much about political. I believe Germanic nations could have benefit from some kind of union, especially in culture, science, sport, etc.

However, i do not like any political union because in politics there are only interests and it can turn different than you expected. I know why i wouldn't like to see Slavic Union(USSR and Yugoslavia were kinds of it)! But don't know, Germanic nations have different mentality than Slavs, so maybe all nations could be happy in such union (although i think it's hard to achieve).

[Piparskeggr]

I should like to see closer cultural and economic cooperation within the Germanic and Nordic communities, not so keen on political or fiscal unity, though.

With a stronger community amongst the lands of many of my ancestors, perhaps folks in the US would see how to maintain such amongst those of like heritage.

[Hevneren]

It is unfair of you, Civis, to go around telling me or my fellow Americans that we have no right or claim to our ancestral homelands. That shows extreme arrogance on your part. Europe as my ancestral homeland, is not the same as making the claim that Europe is my home. Never have I claimed it to be such, either.

Please do not forget that.:)

I agree. It's unnecessarily divisive to deny Americans of European ancestry their right to feel a connection to Europe. The connection is undeniably there, in their veins, in their family history, in the cultural practices that they still remember from times passed. The United States of America was in its inception a country based on ideals from Europe, English common law, the Magna Carta and so on.

I do understand what Civis Batavi is getting at when he writes about language and culture, and I agree that (for example) Norwegian-Americans aren't "proper" Norwegians if they don't know our language or culture.

However, this is a thread that is meant to discuss Germanic unity, and if - say - Americans of a Germanic European background want to move to Europe and adopt the cultures and languages of their ancestors and immerse themselves in this way of life, then isn't this a good thing for the Germanic European nations? It'll mean a net contribution of people of relatively recent native heritage, and if their children grow up speaking the native languages and adopting the native cultures, this is a positive thing.

I would welcome Norwegian-Americans, Norwegian-Canadians etc. who are willing to learn and adopt our language and culture and raise their children in the Norwegian culture. These people will "rediscover" their Norwegian identity and become proper Norwegians in the generations to come.

[Logan]

Only greater economic cooperation. Their cultures are unique, and should be preserved against any others. Respect for and cooperation amongst.

[The Lawspeaker]

My problem with unions is that the more powerful and populous nations often overshadow and dominate the smaller nations. We already see this with France and Germany in the EU. In a Germanic union, Germany's role would be even stronger. I'd fear that the interests of other nations would not be addressed equally.
That's my fear too. So how one would curtail Germany's might in a Germanic organisation (not per se a union) ?

[Hevneren]

I'd kindly see both piss off. Unless married to a native born citizen (in our case Dutch), or doing specialized work.. yada yada.

The same rules should apply to all. White nationalism is an American invention that is pretty alien here.

White nationalism is nonsense, but that's not the issue here. The issue is Germanic unity, and if you carry the native blood and adopt and assimilate the native culture of the Germanic country you come to, you shouldn't be told to "fuck off" in my opinion. If you and your children are all ethnic "natives" (i. e. fully ethnic German but American citizen, moving to Germany) and you assimiliate culturally and linguistically, with time your family will become part of the native population, in my opinion.

[The Lawspeaker]

I do understand what Civis Batavi is getting at when he writes about language and culture, and I agree that (for example) Norwegian-Americans aren't "proper" Norwegians if they don't know our language or culture.

However, this is a thread that is meant to discuss Germanic unity, and if - say - Americans of a Germanic European background want to move to Europe and adopt the cultures and languages of their ancestors and immerse themselves in this way of life, then isn't this a good thing for the Germanic European nations? It'll mean a net contribution of people of relatively recent native heritage, and if their children grow up speaking the native languages and adopting the native cultures, this is a positive thing.

I would welcome Norwegian-Americans, Norwegian-Canadians etc. who are willing to learn and adopt our language and culture and raise their children in the Norwegian culture. These people will "rediscover" their Norwegian identity and become proper Norwegians in the generations to come.


That's actually not a bad idea, Hevneren. This is something a Germanic organisation (or in the end a Germanic Union) could do in order to combat any labour shortages: facilitate a program (combined with the government of the member-states) for a cultural exchange and language and culture courses and maybe even a right of return for those that are willing to assimilate back into the culture of their ancestors - to "rediscover" their Dutch, Norwegian, German, Swedish etc. identity and come back to the land their forefathers left behind. It is a better solution then bringing in swats of immigrants but should only be done with a bit of restraint.

They will need to prove that their ancestors came from this country.



White nationalism is nonsense, but that's not the issue here. The issue is Germanic unity, and if you carry the native blood and adopt and assimilate the native culture of the Germanic country you come to, you shouldn't be told to "fuck off" in my opinion. If you and your children are all ethnic "natives" (i. e. fully ethnic German but American citizen, moving to Germany) and you assimiliate culturally and linguistically, with time your family will become part of the native population, in my opinion.
That is.. if they are fully ethnic Germans but you know that a lot of Americans are a bit of a mishmash. Would you consider an American or Canadian with one Norwegian grandfather to be Norwegian ?

[Aces High]

Byrnecres isn't one of the "America! Fuck yeah!" crowd and I haven't seen her being anything but respectful on this forum, which is certainly more than can be said for you.

So...?

Now get back round to your sisters house and babysit her kids she had with that Somali pirate you spinelss wonder.

[Hevneren]

Exactly the same. They better have a good reason to go here. But and that's something you wouldn't understand either: here someone from Limburg Province moving to a village in Frisia Province is a foreigner there, an outsider (and sometimes they tend to show it too). An American would never understand that. A European would.

What are your thoughts on the thousands of (native) Dutch people who move to Norway, stay here and raise children? Should we deport them all back home?

I understand where you're going (kind of), it's just that I think you're being a bit too divisive and it's not really helpful.

As I see it, people of European heritage are welcome in Norway as long as they a) are law abiding, b) adopt our language, c) either work or educate themselves here, d) don't push foreign cultural norms onto us natives and e) don't overrun and displace the native population, leading to logistical problems like lack of housing and problems with public transport.

[The Lawspeaker]

Now that I think of it: it should actually be a good idea to specifically "target" (insert Germanic nationality)- (insert colonial nationality) a Danish-American, or a Dutch-American since they have a Dutch, Danish or Norwegian parent with another one being American and since they will probably have been raised with the culture, and the language as much as any Dutchman, Dane or Norwegian and since they are already passport holders (by birth). It should be that generation that should be specifically invited to leave the new world and come "home".

[The Lawspeaker]

What are your thoughts on the thousands of (native) Dutch people who move to Norway, stay here and raise children? Should we deport them all back home?
I would appreciate it if they would assimilate and marry into the family when the time is there. I would think of it as unfair to create ethnic ghettoes even in a fellow Germanic country. They should do what the 17th century Norwegians have done here: assimilate and take up Norwegian names. (that's why it's actually very difficult to calculate the number of Norwegian-descended people (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegians#The_Netherlands) here: they all took Dutch names).


I understand where you're going (kind of), it's just that I think you're being a bit too divisive and it's not really helpful.
We've have had quite a few Americans that either thought that we practiced abortion as a pass-time and smoked weed all day long or that we all walked on wooden shoes, grew tulips and lived in windmills. It's that kind of ignorants that I just love to keep at bay, thank you. :D:thumb001:


As I see it, people of European heritage are welcome in Norway as long as they a) are law abiding, b) adopt our language, c) either work or educate themselves here, d) don't push foreign cultural norms onto us natives and e) don't overrun and displace the native population, leading to logistical problems like lack of housing and problems with public transport.
That just might work. :thumb001: Although I would like to curtail the first generation a bit by having them live amongst locals so they will get the local lore on a daily basis piece by piece, alongside their integration course.

[RoyBatty]

Byrnecres isn't one of the "America! Fuck yeah!" crowd and I haven't seen her being anything but respectful on this forum, which is certainly more than can be said for you.

Respectful is very nice but we're facing an existential crisis as Euroland is being flooded with wogs, the media is controlled by ZOG and our politicians are screwing us over at every given opportunity.

When the Byrnecres's of this world then start obsessing over and worshipping wogs (like Black Jesus #1 Mandela) and wants to feed and import starving wogs from Africa (what about the poor children!!!) she's sabotaging us.

By herself she doesn't cause much destruction but multiply this idiocy by 1000's and millions more white idiots and you have a serious fkn epidemic on your hands. Respect is nice (if you can afford it) but this is about our survival and I don't give a damn about the feelings of those who are sabotaging us from the inside. They're 5th columnists and must be treated as such.

Before you start off on another of those boring "you are a Nazi" tangents, rather consider what I said and address the issues instead of launching into those boring and overcooked Nazi jibes.

In a couple of decades European Nation States would have been effectively wiped out by immigration and foreign assimilation. There won't be very much "Norwegian" left in your precious Norway. If you can't understand this basic reality then it's time you started waking up.

[The Lawspeaker]

Roy: if one would deny returnees (that weren't passport holders) the vote until they have been living in their ancestral homeland for quite a few years and have gained the pride and determination to stand for it then that shouldn't be a problem either.

[Hevneren]

I like idea of cultural unions, not so much about political. I believe Germanic nations could have benefit from some kind of union, especially in culture, science, sport, etc.

However, i do not like any political union because in politics there are only interests and it can turn different than you expected. I know why i wouldn't like to see Slavic Union(USSR and Yugoslavia were kinds of it)! But don't know, Germanic nations have different mentality than Slavs, so maybe all nations could be happy in such union (although i think it's hard to achieve).

I agree with you on politics in unions, and I would take it one step further and add that I also feel that bigger nations can dominate culturally as well. Look at Britain, for instance, with its music dominance in Europe (not adding the USA here, it's not in Europe).

I also think that there is an analogy to be drawn between Slavic and Germanic nations, although we're quite different. I think that both Germanic and Slavic nations - as I believe I've mentioned in another thread - know from history what happens when a nation tries to unify other nations by force.

You Slavs have had Russia and we Germanics have had Germany. Both nations have employed "panist" policies but ultimately these policies failed.

[Hevneren]

So...?

Now get back round to your sisters house and babysit her kids she had with that Somali pirate you spinelss wonder.

You fail on so many levels. It's funny how you try to insult me by calling me spineless, while not even being able to spell the word correctly. And you call yourself English? Don't make me laugh.

If there's anyone who's spineless here, it's you and your lot who were chased out of Africa by so called inferior blacks, after your pathetic Rhodesia only had been around for 14 years. You dare to sit there on your high horse, coming from some failed African shithole that doesn't even exist anymore?

By the way, I have no sister, and none in my family is involved with any African, which is more than one can say for - and I'll borrow Hamsun's (in)famous line - mulatto stud farms in your shitty little African colonies.

Whereas we only got African immigrants in the 1980's, you rejects of Britain have been wallowing around in kudu dung and dancing with the natives for the past 150 years, you pidgin-English speaking limp-wristed little prick.

Put some ear plugs in your ears and repeat "I am English! I am English!" a hundred times, and ignore the fact that you were raised in the African bush like the little bastard you are. Go wave your hanky around like a "hard" Englishman, you wanker.

http://www.urban75.org/london/images/morris-dancers-15.jpg

[Treffie]

When the Byrnecres's of this world then start obsessing over and worshipping wogs (like Black Jesus #1 Mandela) and wants to feed and import starving wogs from Africa (what about the poor children!!!) she's sabotaging us.


Byrnecres also has the right to voice her opinion here, without being insulted. Unfortunately, Aces High likes to insult members at every given opportunity.

[The Lawspeaker]

I agree with you on politics in unions, and I would take it one step further and add that I also feel that bigger nations can dominate culturally as well. Look at Britain, for instance, with its music dominance in Europe (not adding the USA here, it's not in Europe).

I also think that there is an analogy to be drawn between Slavic and Germanic nations, although we're quite different. I think that both Germanic and Slavic nations - as I believe I've mentioned in another thread - know from history what happens when a nation tries to unify other nations by force.

You Slavs have had Russia and we Germanics have had Germany. Both nations have employed "panist" policies but ultimately these policies failed.

But the thing is: how should we make sure that we have a balance of cultural power ? The thing is: we are blessed in Europe with a couple of things.

Even if we would shut out America we would have several dominant powers when it comes to for instance music: Britain, France, Italy, Sweden. Germany (with it's modern clap trap and it's long since forgotten classical highlights) could become more important in the future once they regain their cultural self-confidence.

Norway, Denmark, the Netherlands and several other countries have quite a name when it comes to (children's) literature. Amongst my old time favourites is a book by a Norwegian writer (Sofies verden. I have both the Norwegian original and a Dutch translation).

Germany's power at the moment is mainly to be found in it's sheer numbers and economic muscle. So a Union would have to "restrain" Germany a bit (not in the sense the E.U has done but enough to make sure it doesn't become a German Union). How it should be enshrined in a Charter that will take a lot of moons before that is arranged...

Another thing that we could do is rotate the position of chairman of the Germanic council and make sure that the location of the council and the office of the organisation are not the in Germany but in let's say.. Denmark.

[Aces High]

it's you and your lot who were chased out of Africa by so called inferior blacks

We could have learnt a thing or two from you and given up within a month without a fight......:D

April 9, 1940, and ended on May 8...........:eek:....bigtime warriors....lolz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Norway_by_Nazi_Germany

[The Lawspeaker]

We could have learnt a thing or two from you and given up within a month without a fight......:D

April 9, 1940, and ended on May 8...........:eek:....bigtime warriors....lolz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Norway_by_Nazi_Germany
Shut the hell up. Norway didn't even have much of an army (and they still held out for almost a month !) and the Allies might just as well have stayed at home as they, in their sheer incompetence, did more damage to Norwegian (or Danish.. or later on Dutch and Belgian) morale and/or operations then the invading Nazi's.

When it comes to Mei 1940: thanks for nothing, idiots ! Thanks for the assistance that never came.

[Aces High]

Shut the hell up. Norway didn't even have much of an army
When it comes to Mei 1940: thanks for nothing, idiots ! Thanks for the assistance that never came.

We ddint have nothing either except some help from South Africa............and we too were waiting for help that never came...........but we lasted a bit longer than a month.

:cool:

[The Lawspeaker]

We ddint have nothing either except some help from South Africa............and we too were waiting for help that never came...........but we lasted a bit longer than a month.

:cool:
Did the Africans have panzer (and plenty of them) and plenty of ME 109's and Stuka's (and had been living in a country that had been one big barracks for most of the 1930s) while your most modern artillery dated back to 1905, and while your rifles had seen the Franco-Prussian war ? If not, please, shut up.

Because that was the state of the Dutch army, of the Danish army and with the Norwegian army being not much better off.

The mental state of the Dutchman or the Scandinavian was almost of the sort that he had to look up the word oorlog or kriget in a bloody dictionary. Norway's last war was in 1814. Of the Netherlands 1830. Of the Danes 1864. Ancient history, mate. Ancient history.

[Aces High]

Did the Africans have panzer (and plenty of them) and plenty of ME 109's and Stuka's .

The RLI and Selous scouts had fuck all,they went out into the bush and took the fight to the enemy....i should know because my father and uncles were fighting in the bush war....and i mean fighting not trying to get to England on a trawler or Swedish boat.
Fighting all the way whilst getting stabbed in the back and shit on from the UK who Rhodesia helped in WWII.

The Danes and Norwegians,Belgians and Dutch who were run over without so much as boo from a goose have nothing in common with me or mine...so i wont take lectures from the descendents of pussies and cowards.

Some fucking Norwegian who slags me off isnt even fit to lick the boots of my people.........bunch of fucking cowards and no hopers.

[Hevneren]

We could have learnt a thing or two from you and given up within a month without a fight......:D

April 9, 1940, and ended on May 8...........:eek:....bigtime warriors....lolz.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_Norway_by_Nazi_Germany

Actually, the fighting continued in the north until June. That's two months, not one. I know African schools aren't top notch, but do try to keep up. We lasted longer than any other occupied country, except for maybe Greece.

As for being warriors, members of the Norwegian resistance became among the most highly decorated individuals during all of WWII, with the heavy water sabotage mission in Rjukan. The sabotage of Rjukan is still a part of the curriculum of British special operations personnel today. Churchill himself asked how such heroism could be rewarded.
aUfiMoY30ac

Of course, Norway's been around since 872 AD, or 1140 years, and we've certainly done more fighting and winning than some 14 year old torchbug of a pissant African shithole who's population ran like bitches when the blacks came with their 25 cent machetes.

I'm sure your Rhodesian heroes can regale us with stories of how they shoveled their way through 3 feet of kudu dung without fainting, and how they kept themselves racially pure by using a condom when they screwed the natives. :rolleyes2:

Now piss off and focus on your British identity, with your Italian wife in Italy, you African twat.

[The Lawspeaker]

The RLI and Selous scouts had fuck all,they went out into the bush and took the fight to the enemy....i should know because my father and uncles were fighting in the bush war....and i mean fighting not trying to get to England on a trawler or Swedish boat.
Fighting all the way whilst getting stabbed in the back and shit on from the UK who Rhodesia helped in WWII.
Bullshit. The Africans had a couple of rifles. The Rhodesians had modern up-to-date equipment.


The Danes and Norwegians,Belgians and Dutch who were run over without so much as boo from a goose have nothing in common with me or mine...so i wont take lectures from the descendents of pussies and cowards.
The Norwegians fought for a month. The Danes for a morning as the Germans were already in Copenhagen and planes to bomb the city to pieces and kill thousands in the process were already flying over the capital. Resistance was perfectly futile.

As for the Dutch: go and ask a German paratrooper about The Hague. If he still cries out the name in his sleep because that's where my grandfather's generation massacred lots of them. And at Kornwerderzand too. After Rotterdam was bombed to pieces with almost a 1000 dead and threats were made to pick off every town or city in my country.. one by one and do the same thing.. and with the Germans being left, right and centre.. fighting on was perfectly useless.


Some fucking Norwegian who slags me off isnt even fit to lick the boots of my people.........bunch of fucking cowards and no hopers.
Your people are a bunch of stuck-in-time Whenwe's. When we were still in Rhodesia.. when we... Fucking bunch of muppets: go back then.

[Germanicus]

To me this idea is the way forward.
A Germanic currency! we could be very formidable.
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n449/ruffusruffcut/unions.png

[Aces High]

Actually, the fighting continued in the north until June. That's two months, not one.

Big deal....bunch of fags.

Run away mothers coming.

[The Lawspeaker]

To me this idea is the way forward.
A Germanic currency! we could be very formidable.
http://i339.photobucket.com/albums/n449/ruffusruffcut/unions.png
With England ? No thanks. Sort out your own affairs first. And keep your hands off Belgium and Luxembourg.

[Aces High]

The Norwegians fought for a month. The Danes for a morning
As for the Dutch a day and a half......the Belgians three and a half hours

It wouldnt be so bad but you admit this shit...............the descendants of Vikings lol....we Anglo Saxons piss on you all........from a great height.

[The Lawspeaker]

It wouldnt be so bad but you admit this shit...............the descendants of Vikings lol....we Anglo Saxons piss on you all........from a great height.
Bollocks. Your grandfather was probably shagging local tribeswomen when the bombs fell on Rotterdam. You're probably the direct descendant of Shaka Zulu. Probably failed the comb test too.

[Aces High]

Bollocks. Your grandfather was probably shagging local tribeswomen when the bombs fell on Rotterdam.

He probably was....but he had to pack his bags and come and help you losers out.

[The Lawspeaker]

He probably was....but he had to pack his bags and come and help you losers out.
LOL. He should have stayed at home. We don't need his African diseases here.

[Hevneren]

The RLI and Selous scouts had fuck all,they went out into the bush and took the fight to the enemy....i should know because my father and uncles were fighting in the bush war....and i mean fighting not trying to get to England on a trawler or Swedish boat.
Fighting all the way whilst getting stabbed in the back and shit on from the UK who Rhodesia helped in WWII.

The Danes and Norwegians,Belgians and Dutch who were run over without so much as boo from a goose have nothing in common with me or mine...so i wont take lectures from the descendents of pussies and cowards.

Some fucking Norwegian who slags me off isnt even fit to lick the boots of my people.........bunch of fucking cowards and no hopers.

Congratulations on derailing another thread with your insecure piss and vinegar. You shit and piss over Norway in this thread and then have the gumption to say I attacked you first, you lying little pissant.

Your sort didn't even have the guts to stay put in Britain, so they ran off to bully the African natives who had no modern armies. While you were killing natives living in mud huts and dressed in rags, we were fighting actual armies.

You call us cowards? We've lived on a fucking icy rock for 11,000 years, fighting off wildlife, rival tribes and the weather, and striking fear into half of the world for 250 years, before surviving the Black Death which took 2/3 of our population, you little piece of shit. We've been fighting thousands of years before your shit stain of an African toilet ever existed. Rhodesia is no more, I wonder why? You didn't even have the fucking backbone to keep your country. We have and we did, since 872 AD, you limp-wristed wanker.

African mongrelised bastards like you better keep your mouth shut. Once you've learned to fight yourselves out of anything tougher than a paper bag, then at least you miserable weaklings can have a say. Until then, shut the fuck up and stop derailing threads.

[Aces High]

LOL. He should have stayed at home.

Well he is laying in Oosterbeek war cemetary if you really want to know....you can go and visit him.
A Rhodesian killed fighting to liberate Holland...pity your own countrymen didnt follow his example or he might not have been needed.

He was killed in the street fighting at Arnhem..........whilst the Dutch hid behind doors.

[Aces High]

.

Go and take your meds and chillax....its bad for your acne to get wound up.

[The Lawspeaker]

Well he is laying in Oosterbeek war cemetary if you really want to know....you can go and visit him.
A Rhodesian killed fighting to liberate Holland...pity your own countrymen didnt follow his example or he might not have been needed.

He was killed in the street fighting at Arnhem..........whilst the Dutch hid behind doors.
His name ? I am living right next door to Oosterbeek so I will check up on it.
Besides: how many Rhodesians died ? 301,000 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties#Human_losses_by_country) Dutch never saw the end of the war.

17,000 of which soldiers.

[Jack B]

On the positive side he is a white American an they have 3 blonde children.

Yeah we toss the dark haired ones in the river in Europe :cool:

[Hevneren]

Big deal....bunch of fags.

Run away mothers coming.

Typical. Some Internet Warrior pussy like you insults the good name of real patriots who actually fought bravely in a war. You're a perfect example of why there can never be Germanic unity in an all-encompassing sense, and I thank you for proving that. Now sod off.

[Hevneren]

It wouldnt be so bad but you admit this shit...............the descendants of Vikings lol....we Anglo Saxons piss on you all........from a great height.

:rolleyes:

You're a little African pissant and a nuisance. Now bugger off from this thread. No, really. Get lost. You bring nothing of relevance to this thread, just piss and vinegar.

[The Lawspeaker]

Typical. Some Internet Warrior pussy like you insults the good name of real patriots who actually fought bravely in a war. You're a perfect example of why there can never be Germanic unity in an all-encompassing sense, and I thank you for proving that. Now sod off.
England should never be in a Germanic organisation anyway. They are not really Germanic so what the hell.

[Aces High]

Typical. Some Internet Warrior pussy like you insults the good name of real patriots

Nope i would never insult the name of the guys in the SS division Nordland.

They were true patriots. ;)

[Aces High]

England should never be in a Germanic organisation anyway. They are not really Germanic so what the hell.

Well we are...its just that our Celtic blood helps us to think sideways.

[Germanicus]

This Thread had all the makings of being a great one, but yet again spoiled in part by Aces High...soon this Forum will be a joke as intelligent members will use it less and less... as has happened in the past!

[Aces High]

This Thread had all the makings of being a great one, but yet again spoiled in part by Aces High...soon this Forum will be a joke as intelligent members will use it less and less... as has happened in the past!

Perhaps your participation oh mastermind would have helped.

[Hevneren]

Nope i would never insult the name of the guys in the SS division Nordland.

They were true patriots. ;)

Didn't I tell you to bugger off? You make a good point though. Even our traitors fought with more honour than your Rhodesian "heroes" ever did. At least these misguided few thousand fighting in SS Nordland were fighting real soldiers with real weapons, and they did so because they opposed communism and not because they loved Hitler, as opposed to couch warriors like you.

[Aces High]

Didn't I tell you

JSYK...Englishmen dont take orders from anyone...its a good rule of thumb and ought to stand you in good stead for the future.

Carry on.

[The Lawspeaker]

Didn't I tell you to bugger off? You make a good point though. Even our traitors fought with more honour than your Rhodesian "heroes" ever did. At least these misguided few thousand fighting in SS Nordland were fighting real soldiers with real weapons, and they did so because they opposed communism and not because they loved Hitler, as opposed to couch warriors like you.
Even though they were a bunch of dirty traitors I can certainly admire the Dutch and Belgians who fought on the Eastern front. They certainly deserve a medal for their bravery.. and the firing squad for high treason.

[Treffie]

Well we are...its just that our Celtic blood helps us to think clearly.

Fixed :p

[Germanicus]

Perhaps your participation oh mastermind would have helped.

I do not want to waste words on an acerbic creep like you, it's obvious that you find your time on here to be antagonistic to everyone and your mode of thought has a detrimental effect to the well being of a healthy forum like this....now sod off before a mod bans you...there's a good boy.

[Aces High]

I do not want to waste words

Well dont,its not like anyone listens to you anyway...in fact you contributing to a thread has the same effect as someone leaving a room.

[Germanicus]

Well dont,its not like anyone listens to you anyway...in fact you contributing to a thread has the same effect as someone leaving a room.

Blimey... you are poison.:eek:

[The Lawspeaker]

Good. That he has fucked off let us go return to business as usual. My idea for a Germanic Union (or Germanic Community or Germanic council) would be something along the lines of the Nordic Council or the EFTA.

It doesn't supplant the Nordic Council or the Benelux but merely serves to augment it and improve inter-Germanic relations and improve our cultural relations and inter-Germanic trade.

My idea would be that there is a Germanic parliament (let's call it the althing) that is elected by the peoples of the member-states to do the things that are needed within the framework of a charter and let's base the organisation in Copenhagen and hold annual parliamentary elections (thus by the inter-Germanic parliament to vote in a new chairman by rotation. If one year a Dutchman was the chairman.. then it will have to be someone else the next year) so it wouldn't become Germany's little plaything.

Members ?

Norway
Sweden
Iceland
Faroe Islands 2
Denmark
Germany
Austria
Switzerland
Belgium
the Netherlands
Luxembourg

Observers:

The U.K (either Scotland or England - preferably Scotland)
Finland 1
Greenland 2
(maybe Ireland)


1. (Swedish minority)
2. (Danish minority)

[Germanicus]

[QUOTE=Civis Batavi;667022]Good. That he has fucked off let us go return to business as usual.


He has been warned to STFU by mods i expect, he will rubbish someone elses thread now he has gone from here.:mad:

[Aces High]

He has been warned to STFU by mods i expect,

Dont over estimate yourself grandad.;)

[RoyBatty]

Byrnecres also has the right to voice her opinion here, without being insulted. Unfortunately, Aces High likes to insult members at every given opportunity.

But I wasn't insulting her, she loves Mandela and black babies. :D

[Germanicus]

Dont over estimate yourself grandad.;)

Why are you so insulting and acerbic to your betters? you must have a personality disorder!

[The Lawspeaker]

The question is: what policies should the Germanic Council or Germanic Union be involved in ?

Lifting trade barriers ? Inter-cultural programs ? Preserving Germanic heritage, arbitration between Germanic states ? Lifting travel barriers between the Germanic nations ? Coordinating scientific exploration ? Making it easier for Germanics to study in another Germanic country ? Maybe later on a customs or passport union ? Maybe something along the lines of the Nordic Language Convention ?

Awarding their own annual literately award, music award and film award like the Nordic Council ?

[Aces High]

Why are you so insulting and acerbic to your betters?

Im not........you are not my better.

Take your pissing contest somewhere else grandad,contribute or stfu and gtfo.

[RoyBatty]

Bullshit. The Africans had a couple of rifles. The Rhodesians had modern up-to-date equipment.


Not really. Rhodesia (like SA) were under sanctions from our sanctimonious brethren in the USA, Europe and the UK. That especially included weaponry. The UK were happily stabbing the white Rhodesians in the back once they'd served their purpose in making a few landbarons, banksters, mine owners and industrialists rich.

Nobody gave a monkey's about them and they were thrown to the wolves. The SA Apartheid Regime (*feeling proud*) tried to help them where they could but it was a lost cause. There were a handful of embargoed and starved out whites up against a horde of stirred up niggers equipped with Soviet weaponry, courtesy of smuggling channels via surrounding African countries.

So the fact they held out as long as they did speaks volumes for them. It was a real ground war, not some lame American style carpet bombing campaign against defenseless wogs who had no chance of shooting back.

[Hevneren]

Respectful is very nice but we're facing an existential crisis as Euroland is being flooded with wogs, the media is controlled by ZOG and our politicians are screwing us over at every given opportunity.

Sorry, I don't buy into the ZOG nonsense.


When the Byrnecres's of this world then start obsessing over and worshipping wogs (like Black Jesus #1 Mandela) and wants to feed and import starving wogs from Africa (what about the poor children!!!) she's sabotaging us.

I haven't seen her advocating importing anyone. I believe her comments were in response to Elfchika/Eiszimmer suggesting that we should start mass killings of immigrant children. If there's any comment I find distasteful, it's Elfchika's.


By herself she doesn't cause much destruction but multiply this idiocy by 1000's and millions more white idiots and you have a serious fkn epidemic on your hands. Respect is nice (if you can afford it) but this is about our survival and I don't give a damn about the feelings of those who are sabotaging us from the inside. They're 5th columnists and must be treated as such.

I consider anyone who is against European nations, freedom of speech and the rights of the individual to be 5th columnists. Byrnecres isn't one of them, but you and your sort are.


Before you start off on another of those boring "you are a Nazi" tangents, rather consider what I said and address the issues instead of launching into those boring and overcooked Nazi jibes.

Sorry, I have a right to exercise my free speech in a non-fascist, free country, and if you don't like that I call your kind by your name, you should either grow a backbone or leave this forum. I don't take orders from you or anyone of your kind.


In a couple of decades European Nation States would have been effectively wiped out by immigration and foreign assimilation. There won't be very much "Norwegian" left in your precious Norway.

How do you know this? If you want me to take you seriously, you can't just make a statement like that without explaining why you think this, or without citing some source.


If you can't understand this basic reality then it's time you started waking up.

The thing is that you confuse your personal opinion with reality. That's not how it works. :shrug:

[RoyBatty]

£^£$*&(RYIOUHRFKLEJFOL

How much pinko Marxist babble could any sane person take..... :( :eek:

[Germanicus]

Im not........you are not my better.

Take your pissing contest somewhere else grandad,contribute or stfu and gtfo.

This is hardly topical to this thread....:(

[Hess]

I am in favor of closer social and economic cooperation between all the European countries, not just the Germanic ones.

[Hevneren]

Good. That he has fucked off let us go return to business as usual. My idea for a Germanic Union (or Germanic Community or Germanic council) would be something along the lines of the Nordic Council or the EFTA.


I could get on board with something like a pan-Germanic EFTA. Today's EFTA consists of four Germanic nations: Liechtenstein, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland.

By the way, you asked how we could contain Germany in a Germanic union. I'm not sure whether that's possible. You can't really keep larger nations from being larger, nor can you really keep these larger nations from having bigger economies. Rotating any decision-making and keeping any HQ's out of Germany, won't change the size of the German population and economy, and thereby their indirect and direct influence on the union.

[Hevneren]

How much pinko Marxist babble could any sane person take..... :( :eek:

This is your only "response"? :rolleyes2:

OK, let me ask you directly: Why do you think Europe will turn majority non-Euro within a couple of decades? Also, what would be your solution to this human tide of immigrants?

[Nglund]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/29/AbandonThread.gif

[The Lawspeaker]

I could get on board with something like a pan-Germanic EFTA. Today's EFTA consists of four Germanic nations: Liechtenstein, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland.
That might work: it can take some important decisions but it is not centralising power. However: I do think that elections should be taken democratically so each member state should be mandated by the Charter to include the possibility to organise a referendum. So: basically enforcing and enshrining democracy as a system of government.



By the way, you asked how we could contain Germany in a Germanic union. I'm not sure whether that's possible. You can't really keep larger nations from being larger, nor can you really keep these larger nations from having bigger economies. Rotating any decision-making and keeping any HQ's out of Germany, won't change the size of the German population and economy, and thereby their indirect and direct influence on the union.
Hmm. Good point but what one could do is to allocate the number of seats relatively proportionally. This would however give Germany some more power though but it would also limit it as the rest of the seats belong to other countries. So suppose that the Council would have 50 seats. 20 of which are German.. that means that there still 30 other seats plus a chairman that might not be German.

[Treffie]

Judging by this thread, I think any type of Germanic unity is a no-go :p

[The Lawspeaker]

Judging by this thread, I think any type of Germanic unity is a no-go :p
ORLY ? :) Since when is our Whenwe a Germanic ? ;)

[RoyBatty]

This is your only "response"? :rolleyes2:

OK, let me ask you directly: Why do you think Europe will turn majority non-Euro within a couple of decades?


- Because white people aren't paid to breed as much as immigrants are paid to breed by European Countries.
- Because European Countries have thrown open the floodgates to wog immigration.
- Because a couple of decades ago there were hardly any wogs in noticeable numbers in most of Europe and today there are and the numbers are climbing fast.
- Because in our countries even whites are undergoing a process of evolutionary regression. MTV and the educational systems are turning many of them into Wigger Simians.



Also, what would be your solution to this human tide of immigrants?

Deport your white ideological peers to Somalia for starters.

[Treffie]

ORLY ? :) Since when is our Whenwe a Germanic ? ;)

What is a Whenwe? :p

[The Lawspeaker]

What is a Whenwe? :p
Whenwe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whenwe).

[Hevneren]

The question is: what policies should the Germanic Council or Germanic Union be involved in ?

It would be policies that weren't too intrusive, in terms of national independence, culture and economy.


Lifting trade barriers ?

To a great degree, yes. Insofar as it didn't threaten the jobs of thousands of your own nation's workers, you could either do away with trade tariffs alltogether between Germanic nations or certainly cut them substantially.


Inter-cultural programs ?

Why not? We could have programmes akin to Erasmus. Exchange programmes for young students, cultural festivals that could "tour" each country in rotation. One year, Germany. Next year, Sweden.


Preserving Germanic heritage, arbitration between Germanic states ?

It could be possible to add cultural preservation into the curriculum of Germanic schools, although I think this would have to be worded in a certain way (unfortunately). I think school children should be able to go on field trips not only to important sites in their own country but also in other Germanic countries, as well as be encouraged to discuss identity and what it means for them to be Dutch, German, Swedish etc. They'd watch documentaries about historic times, dig sites and so forth, and get to see traditional folk costumes and what people did and wore in the old days.


Lifting travel barriers between the Germanic nations ?

Well, as it stands now, Schengen has done away with a lot of the travel barriers. Unfortunately, this also means a lot of dodgy characters from Eastern Europe as well as non-Europeans who've made their way to a European country and has a passport, can travel anywhere with little trouble.

It's still not like in the Nordic countries, where you don't need a passport to travel from country to country. This system may be feasable between all Germanic countries, but it would also mean that non-Europeans living in Germanic countries could travel around without a passport, such as the Turks in Germany. So, this presents a problem in my mind.


Coordinating scientific exploration ?

Yes, we've seen the benefits of scientific cooperation with CERN in Switzerland, which has a large contingent of scientists from Germanic nations, including the Swiss themselves. We could expand on what CERN has accomplished and create a university dedicated to pan-Germanic scientific cooperation.


Making it easier for Germanics to study in another Germanic country ?

Yes, as I mentioned one could create programmes such as Erasmus. It would be feasable, and universities tend to have subjects in more than one language.


Maybe later on a customs or passport union ? Maybe something along the lines of the Nordic Language Convention ?

I don't know. This bleeds over into the field of politics and could set a negative trend for any cooperation.


Awarding their own annual literately award, music award and film award like the Nordic Council ?

Yes, we already have Eurovision, so why not have a more classy version of that, for the literary world? And why stop there? We could have an award for science, similar to Nobel.

[Hevneren]

Deport your white ideological peers to Somalia for starters.

Who are my ideological peers? You mean, the 99.9% of Europe who want to keep free speech and a fascist-free environment? :shrug:

[RoyBatty]

Who are my ideological peers? You mean, the 99.9% of Europe who want to keep free speech and a fascist-free environment? :shrug:

Free speech doesn't exist in Europe. You are extremely deluded to make such a baseless claim and assertion.

Fascist Free (we have leftwing Fascism) doesn't exist in Europe

Try again sunshine ;)

[European Loyalist]

I am sorry.. but that's what it is. Unless one of your parents was a native born European and unless you know the language and the culture as your own and you hold a passport I don't think you can call this your homeland. Sorry. Hell - a nice example: Hansje Brinker (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hans_Brinker,_or_The_Silver_Skates). An American fantasy. Complete and utter rubbish.

By this logic many Russians in Latvia and Estonia can't call Russia their homeland, which is absurd.

In my opinion blood and self-identity is all that matters. Scotland is my homeland and that is that. If my parents were self-hating hippies I likely wouldn't consider Scotland my homeland, but my family has a strong history of loyalty to Britain and the monarch (British empire loyalists).

Europe needs more nationalist policies such as the blood-citizenship rules that exist in Germany for example. Europe should embrace it's pure colonial populations before they get assimilated out of existence.

[The Lawspeaker]

By this logic many Russians in Latvia and Estonia can't call Russia their homeland, which is absurd.

.
Just who are you to lecture us about the way in European kinship and nationality laws work, colonial ? I think that we can determine that for ourselves: thanks very much.

And Russians in Latvia and Estonia are full-blooded (brought into the country by the USSR in order to supplant the native population) Russians that speak Russian, marry Russian, eat Russian etc. And that's exactly why the Estonians and Latvians didn't give them a passport.

[European Loyalist]

Just who are you to lecture us about the way in European kinship and nationality laws work, colonial ? I think that we can determine that for ourselves: thanks very much.

And Russians in Latvia and Estonia are full-blooded Russians that speak Russian, marry Russian, eat Russian etc. And that's exactly why the Estonians and Latvians didn't give them a passport.

But many weren't born in Russia or have a Russian passport, which is what your requirements included.

I'm full-blooded scottish, speak english, and "eat" british (relatively speaking).

So why can they call Russia their homeland but I can't can't call Scotland mine?

[The Lawspeaker]

But many weren't born in Russia or have a Russian passport, which is what your requirements included.

I'm full-blooded scottish, speak english, and "eat" british (relatively speaking).

So why can they call Russia their homeland but I can't can't call Scotland mine?
I have to explain yet another colonial how it works in Europe. This is the last time I will do it. So get it in your head, please:

They have a Russian passport and most of them were born in Russia. They were brought in deliberately as a policy of genocide.

And that is why they don't get an Estonian or Latvian passport.


And I don't think that the Scots here would consider you to be one of their own. I know that I wouldn't consider a "Dutch-American" who has no real ties to the country and that doesn't speak a word of my tongue as a fellow countryman.

And what is full-blooded Scottish ? Did both your parents just jump of the plane - coming in directly from Glasgow or was it that there are two sets of great-grandparents who reputedly came in from Scotland ?

Do you have the right to hold a British passport or do you currently hold it ?

When was the last time you were on the other side of the pond ?

[European Loyalist]

They have a Russian passport and most of them were born in Russia. They were brought in deliberately as a policy of genocide.

And that is why they don't get an Estonian or Latvian passport.


But not all of them were born in Russia or have a Russian passport - I have a Latvian friend who confirms that. I want to know by your way of thinking if those people in specific can call Russia their homeland.

Also you could make a relatively similar argument about my ancestors, they were sent to the new world by the British empire and maintained British subject status all the way up until my grandparents. Canada didn't even really become independent until the 1930's-40's, and arguably until 1982.

[Siberyak]

Who are my ideological peers? You mean, the 99.9% of Europe who want to keep free speech and a fascist-free environment? :shrug:

Ask David Duke if free speech exists in Europe.

[The Lawspeaker]

But not all of them were born in Russia or have a Russian passport - I have a Latvian friend who confirms that. I want to know by your way of thinking if those people in specific can call Russia their homeland.
That's funny.. because we have Estonians and Latvians here that would never consider a Russian to be one of their own. Isn't that a bitch.. :rolleyes::D



Also you could make a relatively similar argument about my ancestors, they were sent to the new world by the British empire and maintained British subject status all the way up until my grandparents. Canada didn't even really become independent until the 1930's-40's, and arguably until 1982.
When were they send ? So with your logic would you consider the Acadians to be British too ? After they used to hold a British passport.

So by your logic would Latvians and Estonians still be Soviets. Don't let the Estonians hear you...

No.. my dear sir. It works a bit different here in Europe (let me use the Dutch nationality law as a nice example (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_nationality_law)): only if you can claim direct ancestry (father or mother) and if you have direct family ties to that country can you call yourself a citizen of that country. If you have a British passport not because of empire but because of descent then you are maybe a Scot. But I think in your case (because you mentioned British Empire (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_passport#History)) that you're just another "homesick" (not even knowing what your home is anyway) colonial.

[The Lawspeaker]

Ask David Duke if free speech exists in Europe.
Ask Congress whether it exists in the U.S.A: PIPA, SOPA... :coffee:

[Siberyak]

Ask Congress whether it exists in the U.S.A: PIPA, SOPA... :coffee:

What does that have to do with speaking your mind? You can still deny the Holocaust openly here in the states. You can deny and speak out against any religion. Even a pastor in Florida openly burned the Koran without any government interference. It only crosses the line here when you call for violence.

I guess this is one last positive about the USA.

[The Lawspeaker]

What does that have to do with speaking your mind? You can still deny the Holocaust openly here in the states. You can deny and speak out against any religion. Even a pastor in Florida openly burned the Koran without any government interference. It only crosses the line here when you call for violence.

I guess this is one last positive about the USA.
I suggest you read up on things. Any "company" can now claim that it's copyright "has been violated" and close down a website that might be hosting politically incorrect material as well as music, literature or anything else. No evidence is needed.

[Siberyak]

I suggest you read up on things. Any "company" can now claim that it's copyright "has been violated" and close down a website that might be hosting politically incorrect material. No evidence is needed.

I don't believe this has passed in congress. They have started to feel the heat over this. Maybe I'm wrong. Read what I wrote in my paragraph.

[The Lawspeaker]

I don't believe this has passed in congress. They have started to feel the heat over this. Maybe I'm wrong. Read what I wrote in my paragraph.
Well the first websites seem to have been closed down so maybe you're wrong. Besides: things always go in steps. The U.S has violated it's constitution so often that it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to realise what your government is up to.

[Siberyak]

Well the first websites seem to have been closed down so maybe you're wrong. Besides: things always go in steps. The U.S has violated it's constitution so often that it wouldn't take a rocket scientist to realise what your government is up to.

This bill has not passed in congress is what I am reading. Hopefully it does pass. I am enjoying the growing anger at the U.S. government. Several of our Occupy Wall Street protests have been near anarchy. :thumbs up

[Siberyak]

http://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/Occupy-Oakland-Damage-133146013.html

[European Loyalist]

That's funny.. because we have Estonians and Latvians here that would never consider a Russian to be one of their own. Isn't that a bitch.. :rolleyes::D

I never said my friend considered these people Latvians, because it's the opposite as he is an ethnic nationalist. I was saying that such people do exist. They either passed the language test and got Latvian citizenship or don't have citizenship to any country and they were born in Latvia.


When were they send ? So with your logic would you consider the Acadians to be British too ? After they used to hold a British passport.

The ancestors on my fathers side are from Motherwell, North Lanarkshire, who went to the 13 colonies for the crown (new jersey). They fled to Canada to remain loyal to the empire and the British monarch during the revolution. My mothers side came to Canada from Edinburgh in the 1910's.

Acadians are not British, but they were British subjects.


So by your logic would Latvians and Estonians still be Soviets. Don't let the Estonians hear you...

I never said that. I'm critiquing your logic, not the other way around. It was you who said that you must be born in a country and have citizenship in order to be able to call it your homeland. The Soviet Union doesn't even exist anymore so nobody can be a citizen of it.

My contention is that if your blood is of the native peoples of that country and your self-identity is of that country you can call it your homeland. I'm not saying that I'm a citizen of the UK or that I have the automatic right to be a citizen (although I support ethnic repatriation because of the demographic situation in Europe), all I'm saying is that I should be allowed to call Scotland my homeland.

Making the entire discussion into a legalistic argument is missing the point, in my opinion. Who are you to tell me that my ancestors renounced Scotland as their homeland? Because they didn't. And that's why I was taught to respect my heritage by my parents and grandparents. That's why my families made sure to marry fellow Scots.

I understand where you are coming from but I know in my heart and mind that my homeland is Scotland and Europe and those are my people and I should be proud of it and revere it wherever I am in the world :D. White-British-Canadian culture and society died 40 years ago and it means very little to me. Perhaps if liberalism hadn't plagued this country I would consider myself mainly Canadian.

[Albion]

England should never be in a Germanic organisation anyway. They are not really Germanic so what the hell.

The Flemish, South Germans, Austrians and Allemanic Swiss aren't Germanic if we base it on blood alone. That leaves you witth the Netherlands, Scandinavia and North Germany. :rolleyes2:


Well we are...its just that our Celtic blood helps us to think sideways.

:D


Fixed

Nope.


Good. That he has fucked off let us go return to business as usual. My idea for a Germanic Union (or Germanic Community or Germanic council) would be something along the lines of the Nordic Council or the EFTA.


Agreed, a looser union would be better.


My idea would be that there is a Germanic parliament (let's call it the althing) that is elected by the peoples of the member-states to do the things that are needed within the framework of a charter and let's base the organisation

Depends on what powers it would have, I think "Assembly" would be more apt - parliament to Euroskeptics equals a federal union.


Members ?

Norway
Sweden
Iceland
Faroe Islands 2
Denmark
Germany
Austria
Switzerland
Belgium
the Netherlands
Luxembourg

Observers:

The U.K (either Scotland or England - preferably Scotland)
Finland 1
Greenland 2
(maybe Ireland)


Observer? You're just scared we'd trash it. Awww, forever alone. :D

And what would observer status offer, would we just watch on the sidelines as laws which affected us were passed? Would we still implement the policies of the organisation despite having no say? If that were the case then there'd be no point.

But whilst the UK remains united I think England will forever remain the black sheep of the Germanic nations. Maybe things would change if Scotland broke away.
If the union did break then what would be your stance towards Scotland and the remant UK (England & Wales or England, Wales and NI)?

When the British voted to join the EC they were led to do so on the understanding that it'd be a free-trade area and not a power-hungry attempt at federalism.
If the EU were to be reduced to its original purpose as such then I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.


Lifting trade barriers ?

Yes, but with agreed protection for strategic industries in each member state. Farming and some sort of manufacturing would be safeguarded in most of them.


Inter-cultural programs ?

Yes, but no using it as a vehicle to force-feed the population multiculturalism and a pro-immigration stance.
Such programmes should be clear that the Germanic peoples are related and explain how they're related and how we can co-operate.


Preserving Germanic heritage

:thumb001:


arbitration between Germanic states ?

There's no border disputes I know about but there'd probably be trade disputes. It could be an alternative to the lame-duck UN within the Germanic nations.


Lifting travel barriers between the Germanic nations ?

It depends. Many illegals try to get into Britain by way of Calais and the French really don't give a shit, they don't even arrest them but instead move them outside the limits of the municipality. Effectively they do nothing and don't care sine they're heading to Britain - once they're here they're none of France's concern. :rolleyes2:
The UK has the Common Travel area with Ireland and the Crown Dependencies of the Isles. It is probably better for the UK to stay in that than to open its borders to the continent.

The Schengen agreement sounds very nice when you think about it, but in openning the borders it could be a potential nightmare for Britain and I don't think it suits all of Europe neither.
The Common Travel Area and Schengen co-operate so that people only have to show their passports at the border instead of applying for a visa. I think that is good enough and passports should be required but not visas between the different Germanic and West European states.

But there are regions such as the British Isles, Benelux, Scandinavia and German-speaking nations where there are large cultural and family ties.
Each of these areas should be passport-free for people of member states, Brits and Irish should continue to go freely between the Islands, Dutch and Belgians between their two nations, etc.
Such passport-free status already exists in the British Isles via the Common Travel Area and in the Benelux via that organisation and the Schengen I believe, German areas via the Schengen again and in Scandinavia via Schengen and the Nordic Council I think.

But none of these nations actually require visas for citizens of the others anyway I think, so most of what I've written already exists via mny different treaties and unwritten rules.


Coordinating scientific exploration ?

Maybe, but it already exists.


Making it easier for Germanics to study in another Germanic country ?

In England students have to pay for uni but education anywhere else such as at college is free until you're 19.
If an English person wants to go to Scotland where they do offer free uni places to their citizns then they still have to pay even if they've lived there all their life and were only born in England.

But if an English person wants to go to uni in Europe then it is free I believe. Incredible... :rolleyes2:

It should be easy for Germanics to study in other Germanic countries but to allow for such the qualifications really must be standardised. That is probably what puts many off doing it.


Maybe later on a customs or passport union ?

Bad idea as I said above. One loose cannon and the whole thing is a disaster.


Maybe something along the lines of the Nordic Language Convention ?


No point, the major Germanic tongues aren't exactly threatened. We could have a Germanic Minority Language Convention to protect the smaller languages and dialects.


Awarding their own annual literately award, music award and film award like the Nordic Council ?

Whenever i see "UK film council" or anything like it I cringe. It has become synonymous with artsy-fartsy left-wing BS.
Most British films today are awful, they usually centre on ethnic minorities or feature many at least and usually have a depressing story to them.

The coalition recently announced that they'd back British films which were actually targetted at the majorities rather than some shitty drivel to make some liberal multiculturalists feel better about themselves. I'am inclined to agree with them.

An award would probably be a good idea, but let's not make it quaint lest we look like idiots with a dying media industry.

In the UK there is a good TV industry but this hasn't been transfered to film yet, we need to encourage decent films to be made here as France does.

[The Lawspeaker]

The Flemish, South Germans, Austrians and Allemanic Swiss aren't Germanic if we base it on blood alone. That leaves you witth the Netherlands, Scandinavia and North Germany. :rolleyes2:
It may be more a cultural thing. I have been to England and I have noticed the cultural differences between us and the English. Cultural differences that are less visible between us and the Norwegians, us and the Germans etc. England really is an island. And I doubt whether English consider themselves a Germanic people. "We are no bluddy Germans !"




Agreed, a looser union would be better.
Agreed. Something akin to the Nordic Council or EFTA but then definitely more democratic. Not a Council of Ministers that convene behind closed doors but a real living democracy.




Depends on what powers it would have, I think "Assembly" would be more apt - parliament to Euroskeptics equals a federal union.
I think the Euroskeptics are a good reason to leave England out. England has cost us a lot of money in the 1980s and 1990s and all we got in return was bitching and moaning. I prefer a Germanic organisation without such issues, thank you very much. I think the English should grow up politically before getting themselves into such adventures.



Observer? You're just scared we'd trash it. Awww, forever alone. :D
Yes. Observer will do.


And what would observer status offer, would we just watch on the sidelines as laws which affected us were passed? Would we still implement the policies of the organisation despite having no say? If that were the case then there'd be no point.
Observer. You sit on the sidelines and when you see something interesting you can implement it but you are free to do so at your own discretion. This should also free England of the burdens of the compulsory referendum and the implementation of a real democracy.



But whilst the UK remains united I think England will forever remain the black sheep of the Germanic nations. Maybe things would change if Scotland broke away.
If the union did break then what would be your stance towards Scotland and the remant UK (England & Wales or England, Wales and NI)?
The SNP seems to be interested in a pro-Scandinavia course. This might to a Scotland joining the EFTA or the Nordic Council one day. If so.. they should become an observer within a Germanic Union. I think that the Scots haven't caused much trouble in Europe yet... compared to the English.




When the British voted to join the EC they were led to do so on the understanding that it'd be a free-trade area and not a power-hungry attempt at federalism.
If the EU were to be reduced to its original purpose as such then I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.
My problem with the EU that it has invited in all sorts of idiot countries that cost us a lot of money (most of the Eastern Block, Greece etc.) and that it's the sort of federalism that we don't want: undemocratic federalism.




Yes, but with agreed protection for strategic industries in each member state. Farming and some sort of manufacturing would be safeguarded in most of them.
You mean the CAP and the CFP ? I don't think we should go there again. What I do think is that there should be some sort of regulation to prevent the free market from destroying our economy and our way of life. The Nordic Model (and in the Netherlands the Polder Model) should be protected against the encroachments by finance capitalism. So that means that some state-owned industries (like for instance the railways and the healthcare system) are (re-)nationalised.




Yes, but no using it as a vehicle to force-feed the population multiculturalism and a pro-immigration stance.
Such programmes should be clear that the Germanic peoples are related and explain how they're related and how we can co-operate.
Exactly.




:thumb001:
It can also be kept alive by linking schools all over the Germanic countries in partnerships and do what Hevneren proposed: Dutch children visiting Norway or Sweden together with local children and then they can learn about each other's heritage, and about what they have in common and about what it means for them to be Norwegian or Swedish or Dutch.

There should also be similar partnerships between schools in the Netherlands and in Belgium. And in Belgium between Flemish and Walloons.

We should also make sure that all remains of the past are preserved and preferably made visible on the spot (covered by a strong glass sheet).




There's no border disputes I know about but there'd probably be trade disputes. It could be an alternative to the lame-duck UN within the Germanic nations.
Actually. I remember that we have one with Germany:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/af/Dutch-German_Border_dispute.svg

But nothing too serious, of course.. but just the usual legal stuff. All such nations have sort of issue with an other one and while everything may be very civilised I think it would be very fair if there was a Court of Arbitration. The UN would still maintain to keep it's offices here in The Hague but in the case of issues with our Germanic brethren we should go to a Germanic Court of Arbitration instead.




It depends. Many illegals try to get into Britain by way of Calais and the French really don't give a shit, they don't even arrest them but instead move them outside the limits of the municipality. Effectively they do nothing and don't care sine they're heading to Britain - once they're here they're none of France's concern. :rolleyes2:
The UK has the Common Travel area with Ireland and the Crown Dependencies of the Isles. It is probably better for the UK to stay in that than to open its borders to the continent.


The Schengen agreement sounds very nice when you think about it, but in openning the borders it could be a potential nightmare for Britain and I don't think it suits all of Europe neither.
The Common Travel Area and Schengen co-operate so that people only have to show their passports at the border instead of applying for a visa. I think that is good enough and passports should be required but not visas between the different Germanic and West European states.

But there are regions such as the British Isles, Benelux, Scandinavia and German-speaking nations where there are large cultural and family ties.
Each of these areas should be passport-free for people of member states, Brits and Irish should continue to go freely between the Islands, Dutch and Belgians between their two nations, etc.
Such passport-free status already exists in the British Isles via the Common Travel Area and in the Benelux via that organisation and the Schengen I believe, German areas via the Schengen again and in Scandinavia via Schengen and the Nordic Council I think.

But none of these nations actually require visas for citizens of the others anyway I think, so most of what I've written already exists via mny different treaties and unwritten rules.
It would actually replace Schengen and since there would be a strict border control all along the Southern borders it would become less of an issue. But that's something for the far future: for now it should be enough to allow a Germanic citizen from each country to enter a Germanic country without a visa (but still with a passport and it will be checked !) and giving him the right of relatively free settlement and movement if he has come to study, bought property, intends to get married, found a job, wishes to retire. There should also be the right to free healthcare for all Germanics: so if they go from one country to the other and fall ill they will receive treatment first.. and if necessary the forms can be filled in later.

I believe that one of the things that we should do is come up with the Latvian definition of citizenship which should reduce immigrants all over the Germanic countries (if they still hold their own passport) no aliens. Non-citizens that should not have the right to vote, not to have the right to unemployment benefits, not have the right to free travel etc. They have one right of free movement: and that's home. And no one will stop them going home.




Maybe, but it already exists.
Then CERN should be kept or there should be a Germanic-only alternative.




In England students have to pay for uni but education anywhere else such as at college is free until you're 19.
If an English person wants to go to Scotland where they do offer free uni places to their citizns then they still have to pay even if they've lived there all their life and were only born in England.

But if an English person wants to go to uni in Europe then it is free I believe. Incredible... :rolleyes2:

It should be easy for Germanics to study in other Germanic countries but to allow for such the qualifications really must be standardised. That is probably what puts many off doing it.
Yes.. the England-Scotland situation is typical. I think that the qualifications should be standardised and that there should be exchange programs between colleges and universities in the Germanic countries. Maybe we should later on take a look at whether studying in a different Germanic country should be free of charge.




No point, the major Germanic tongues aren't exactly threatened. We could have a Germanic Minority Language Convention to protect the smaller languages and dialects.
What it actually means is this: suppose that a Norwegian person travelling in the Netherlands falls ill and he needs medical attention. Sometimes English may not be enough and he needs to speak to someone in Norwegian. That should not be a problem: someone will be found that speaks the language and the patient will not be charged for it. The same goes for a Dutch person travelling in Norway or a German or a Swede etc.

I believe that Germanic Minority Language Convention, as you proposed it, might also work to protect minority languages.




Whenever i see "UK film council" or anything like it I cringe. It has become synonymous with artsy-fartsy left-wing BS.
Most British films today are awful, they usually centre on ethnic minorities or feature many at least and usually have a depressing story to them.

The coalition recently announced that they'd back British films which were actually targetted at the majorities rather than some shitty drivel to make some liberal multiculturalists feel better about themselves. I'am inclined to agree with them.

An award would probably be a good idea, but let's not make it quaint lest we look like idiots with a dying media industry.

In the UK there is a good TV industry but this hasn't been transfered to film yet, we need to encourage decent films to be made here as France does.

What I mean is that it should be encouraged to use good quality films, music, theatre and books to purposely replace the already existing crap that has come in from the other side of the Atlantic. So good films should be awarded.. and the same goes for good theatrical plays, music and books. And it could be the case that instead of your average Hollywood-rubbish film which seriously ruins your night before the telly you could be watching a Norwegian, German or Swedish film as provided for by your public broadcaster.

There should be a general movement (fuelled by tax money) to do away with the commercial BS on our TV's and in what remains of our cultural life and have films, books, theatrical plays based on things from our history or something to do with our heritage, good drama's and for children good books like Sofies verden instead of the American crap we now get shoved in our face.

[Hevneren]

What does that have to do with speaking your mind? You can still deny the Holocaust openly here in the states. You can deny and speak out against any religion. Even a pastor in Florida openly burned the Koran without any government interference. It only crosses the line here when you call for violence.

I guess this is one last positive about the USA.

You can do all of these things in most European countries, including the burning of flags, which is forbidden in your "Land of the free".

[Raskolnikov]

You can do all of these things in most European countries, including the burning of flags, which is forbidden in your "Land of the free".
That's completely legal, genius.

[Siberyak]

Heveren pretending he knows us laws

[Vasa]

Im a supporter of a Scandinavian union, not a Germanic one and i belive most people in Scandinavia feel the same way. :)

[billErobreren]

Im a supporter of a Scandinavian union, not a Germanic one and i belive most people in Scandinavia feel the same way. :)

Like another Kalmar union?:confused: Oh God No!:D

[Vasa]

Like another Kalmar union?:confused: Oh God No!:D

Dont be silly. But kind of yes. With the purpose to have a strong united military, economy and foreign policy. Tho still as autonomous nations.

We'r actually discussing this Subject in here:
http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13708

[Argyll]

I know I can't really speak for Germanics, but I will say this. Most of these unions and/or empires that absorb other countries always fall.

One major problem is that they are usually headed by one country, and that country's well-being is usally put above that of the other countries that are in the union/empire.

Another problem is cultural differences. I know the Scandinavian countries vary little in their differences, but I think (from what I have seen) that there is an identity that goes with the countries, and some minor cultural differences (correct me if I'm wrong).

A last one is the always, ever present corruption. Every political system in every country is corrupt in one way or another, but empires/unions seem to always have had that corruption go very high.

I just don't think it would be very healthy for any countries to be made into empires/unions. They should stay independent.

[Aviane]

I would like the see all Germanic countries united.

To make a enconomic and culture change.

Plus it could be useful for the benefit of their past links.

[The Lawspeaker]

I know I can't really speak for Germanics, but I will say this. Most of these unions and/or empires that absorb other countries always fall.

One major problem is that they are usually headed by one country, and that country's well-being is usally put above that of the other countries that are in the union/empire.

Another problem is cultural differences. I know the Scandinavian countries vary little in their differences, but I think (from what I have seen) that there is an identity that goes with the countries, and some minor cultural differences (correct me if I'm wrong).

A last one is the always, ever present corruption. Every political system in every country is corrupt in one way or another, but empires/unions seem to always have had that corruption go very high.

I just don't think it would be very healthy for any countries to be made into empires/unions. They should stay independent.

But then again.. none of these are your problems. :thumb001:

[rhiannon]

I was born in Rhodesia not South Africa.......jesus you cant even get your facts right.

So you are right...im a xhosa...no a bantu immigrant.....a kaffir....a nigger,you have found me out and put me in my place.....ooooh the humiliation.:rolleyes:

Ain't Rhodesia No Mo, sir:rolleyes:

[Leliana]

This thread and all the narrow-minded conflicts show that Germanic unity can only work under German leadership. :P

Die Gemeinschaft braucht jemanden der führt, der leitet, der sagt wo es lang geht und der den Weg von allen Unwägbarkeiten befreit. Und selbstverständlich auch jemanden der die Gruppe zusammenhält und Streitereien untereinander ausräumt. Wer sollte das anderes sein als das größte Mitglied?

A loose federation of sovereign nations with economic and military partnership or cooperation and a common currency sounds like the best idea. :)

[The Lawspeaker]

Die Gemeinschaft braucht jemanden der führt, der leitet, der sagt wo es lang geht und der den Weg von allen Unwägbarkeiten befreit. Und selbstverständlich auch jemanden der die Gruppe zusammenhält und Streitereien untereinander ausräumt. Wer sollte das anderes sein als das größte Mitglied?

Dat ben ik toch niet helemaal met je eens. :) Ik denk dat het het beste is als er een roterend voorzitterschap is: één jaar Nederland, het volgende jaar IJsland, dan bijvoorbeeld Duitsland of Noorwegen etc. En als we dan aan het einde van de lijst zijn gekomen beginnen we weer overnieuw. Zo komt iedereen een keer aan de beurt en dat is wel zo netjes.

[Leliana]

Dat ben ik toch niet helemaal met je eens. :) Ik denk dat het het beste is als er een roterend voorzitterschap is: een jaar Nederland, het volgende jaar IJsland, dan bijvoorbeeld Duitsland of Noorwegen etc. En als we dan aan het einde van de lijst zijn gekomen beginnen we weer overnieuw. Zo komt iedereen een keer aan de beurt en dat is wel zo netjes.
Das ist auch kein schlechter Plan aber die Frage ist ob das auch wirklich so wie erwünscht klappen würde? Es gäbe Reibereien und die jeweilige Führerschaft könnte auf den Gedanken kommen sich für ein Jahr einfach auf die faule Haut zu legen und nichts zu machen. Und ob die Faröer Inseln das überhaupt leisten könnten ist eine andere Frage. ;)

[The Lawspeaker]

Das ist auch kein schlechter Plan aber die Frage ist ob das auch wirklich so wie erwünscht klappen würde? Es gäbe Reibereien und die jeweilige Führerschaft könnte auf den Gedanken kommen sich für ein Jahr einfach auf die faule Haut zu legen und nichts zu machen. Und ob die Faröer Inseln das überhaupt leisten könnten ist eine andere Frage. ;)
Ik denk dat het als op zo'n transparante manier gebeurd dat problemen vrijwel uitgesloten zijn.. te meer omdat wij als Germanen nu in eenmaal een stuk ordentelijker zijn dan onze vrienden aan de andere kant van de Alpen... Ik denk overigens wel dat als de Faeröer het misschien niet zouden kunnen betalen dat de rekening maar desnoods naar Kopenhagen moet worden gestuurd omdat de Faeröer nog steeds deel uitmaken van het Koninkrijk Denemarken.

(beste vrienden: het woord "Germanen" wordt bij Google Translator verkeerd vertaald: het dient niet te worden geïnterpreteerd als "Duitsers" maar als "Germanics".)

[rhiannon]

But I wasn't insulting her, she loves Mandela and black babies. :D

I do love children....so accusing me of loving babies of any color is certainly not an insult:)

[Aces High]

I know I can't really speak for Germanics, but I will say this. Most of these unions and/or empires that absorb other countries always fall.


The UK hasnt dont too badly.

[The Lawspeaker]

The UK hasnt dont too badly.
Or Switzerland or Germany. Hell.. the Netherlands: which started off as a federation of fiefdoms that usually hated each others guts but only hated the paella munchers more.

[Aptrgangr]

The pan-Germanicism we have within Germany is more than enough for me already. Anything that threatens the national sovereignty is unacceptable, but I clearly say it would make sense to keep a common currency with The NL, LUX and A, for example. In matters of culture and science, Germany traditionally does not only interact with the north, but also with the east, south and west, I think that should remain that way.

[TheBorrebyViking]

The UK hasnt dont too badly.

I was going to point this out, it's just now come under serious issues of lost(with Scotland splits being possible).

[Argyll]

But then again.. none of these are your problems. :thumb001:

That is true, good sir. Just giving my insight :)

[RoyBatty]

You can do all of these things in most European countries, including the burning of flags, which is forbidden in your "Land of the free".


Roughly 50% of the EU's population live under draconian Hollowhoax legistlation.

Hollowhoax denial is expressly forbidden in:

Austria (8.5 mil)
Belgium (11 mil)
Czech Republic (10.5 mil)
France (65 mil)
Germany (82 mil)
Hungary (10 mil)
Luxembourg (0.5 mil)
Poland (38.5 mil)
Romania (21.5)

248 million people living under tyrannical Zionist laws make up a big chunk of the EU with a total population of around 500 000 000.

[Hevneren]

Im a supporter of a Scandinavian union, not a Germanic one and i belive most people in Scandinavia feel the same way. :)

What exactly is meant by "union" here? I don't support such a notion, and most Norwegians wouldn't support such a notion. We were screwed over in the Kalmar Union, and frankly we've had enough of unions between 1380 and 1905.

[Hevneren]

This thread and all the narrow-minded conflicts show that Germanic unity can only work under German leadership. :P

You already tried that once. Remember? :rolleyes2:


Die Gemeinschaft braucht jemanden der führt, der leitet, der sagt wo es lang geht und der den Weg von allen Unwägbarkeiten befreit. Und selbstverständlich auch jemanden der die Gruppe zusammenhält und Streitereien untereinander ausräumt. Wer sollte das anderes sein als das größte Mitglied?

I suppose Germany has a natural right to decide and lord power over other Germanic nations, in your opinion? Is this how you view "cooperation"?

In my mind you're making a great case for why any Germanic union with Germany would be anything but equal cooperation. You feel entitled to push your will onto others, as you felt between 1938 and 1945. Don't you see the problem with this attitude? :shrug:


A loose federation of sovereign nations with economic and military partnership or cooperation and a common currency sounds like the best idea. :)

It sounds like a terrible idea akin to the European Union. Centralisation and unequal distribution of power, more bureaucracy and co-dependent economies based on a common currency. This means that if one nation nose-dives, the rest will automatically follow.

[Argyll]

The UK hasnt dont too badly.

Well, the UK seems like it's going to split up soon.

[The Lawspeaker]

Well, the UK seems like it's going to split up soon.
Yes, sure. Like Belgium. How many "divorce procedures" have they been going through already ? Fucking hell I've lost count.

[Albion]

Cultural differences that are less visible between us and the Norwegians, us and the Germans etc. England really is an island. And I doubt whether English consider themselves a Germanic people. "We are no bluddy Germans !"

Yeah, I suppose you're right about that. There's certainly not much of a Pan-Germanic feeling here, but the English do think of themsleves as descended from Anglo-Saxons and they know where they came from.
However this has never led to any major sense of brotherhood with the Germans, they're like some distant relatives we never see. ;)

England is probably politically and socially closer to the other British Isles nations and Australia & NZ than to most parts of continental Europe.
However I don't think it is grounds to exclude England though, a Germanic Union without England is missing a major Germanic region.


I think the Euroskeptics are a good reason to leave England out. England has cost us a lot of money in the 1980s and 1990s and all we got in return was bitching and moaning.

I think it has contributed more than it has taken out. The Celtic Nations weigh down England in a massive way financially and so too do parts of the North, but that is our problem.


I prefer a Germanic organisation without such issues, thank you very much. I think the English should grow up politically before getting themselves into such adventures.

You've been reading the Spiegel and Bild a bit too much there. Politically it is perhaps quite advanced, it doesn't follow other nations around like a lost sheep unlike the herd mentality countries of the continent.
Euroskeptics have been quite outspoken but they're a minority who play on this to try and win popular appeal.


Yes. Observer will do.

If we were an observer then there'd be no point. If we left the EU and didn'tjoin the EFTA or your proposed union then we might as well forget about Western Europe.
The Anglosphere still has large familial, cultural and political ties and the UK has been courting a few nations outside of the EU for a while now.
This can be built upon and the removal of trade restrictions and the unofficial protectionism of the EU bloc would allow us to open up to the rest of the world.
It is hard for EU members to deal directly with other countries. The EU calls it strength in numbers, being able to negotiate as a larger entity.
But it also has the disadvantage in that it is hard to deal with individual countries without the EU.

As I said, if we left the EU and failed to join a trade organisation with somewhere else in Western Europe then we might as well patch up relations with the Anglosphere.


Observer. You sit on the sidelines and when you see something interesting you can implement it but you are free to do so at your own discretion. This should also free England of the burdens of the compulsory referendum and the implementation of a real democracy.

So we pick and choose what we apply whilst having little say in the actual formulating of the laws other than to offer our advice to full members?
The Switzerland of the Germanic Union, only they'd have more power. The irony...
I suppose that wouldn't be too bad, but pro-EU factions here use that as an argument to stay in the EU, that we'd have no actual say in these affairs.
It isn't a major problem so long as the laws being made are actually decent and not harmful to England, but this would be playing second fiddle and UK politicians would never like that.


The SNP seems to be interested in a pro-Scandinavia course. This might to a Scotland joining the EFTA or the Nordic Council one day. If so.. they should become an observer within a Germanic Union. I think that the Scots haven't caused much trouble in Europe yet... compared to the English.

The Scots are blinded by unrealistic fantasies. They'll probably be much like Ireland in the EU, quiet.


My problem with the EU that it has invited in all sorts of idiot countries that cost us a lot of money (most of the Eastern Block, Greece etc.) and that it's the sort of federalism that we don't want: undemocratic federalism.

Croatia?

Many of the members weren't ready or were never really suitable. The EU would have been better if it had stuck to the original members and if the EFTA had stuck with its original membership.
The EFTA would be the ideal alternative to the EU for less developed countries since it is really not much more than a trade pact and I don't thinkthere are subsidisations of other nations as with the EU.
The UK had the better idea of what it needed when it created the EFTA with the few other members - loose co-operation in trade without interference or hindrance.


You mean the CAP and the CFP ?

No, I mean each nation would have reserve areas which it could make its own policy on, for most nations agriculture and manufacturing would be the most important reserve areas. Quite the opposite of CAP, it'd keep such responsibilities with the individual states.


What I do think is that there should be some sort of regulation to prevent the free market from destroying our economy and our way of life.

That is what I was suggesting, but massive subsidies from different countries in Europe to others aren't good neither. Subsidies for agriculture should be used internally for that nations farmers for example.


The Nordic Model (and in the Netherlands the Polder Model) should be protected against the encroachments by finance capitalism. So that means that some state-owned industries (like for instance the railways and the healthcare system) are (re-)nationalised.

Agreed, short-term gain oriented "Anglo-Saxon" capitalism (- basically unregulated pure capitalism) has done much damage to the UK, US and other adopters. We need better regulation, but I'am not supporter of the Rhine model neither.


It can also be kept alive by linking schools all over the Germanic countries in partnerships and do what Hevneren proposed: Dutch children visiting Norway or Sweden together with local children and then they can learn about each other's heritage, and about what they have in common and about what it means for them to be Norwegian or Swedish or Dutch.

There should also be similar partnerships between schools in the Netherlands and in Belgium. And in Belgium between Flemish and Walloons.

Yes, that is a good idea.


We should also make sure that all remains of the past are preserved and preferably made visible on the spot (covered by a strong glass sheet).

Nice idea, it'd be good for places like Seahenge which is left to the elements with little protection besides the mud it became burried in.
It's a wooden henge with an oak tree with its canopy in the ground and lies on a mudflat. It has been there a few millenia and the remains protrude and it'll rot away if something isn't done.


Actually. I remember that we have one with Germany:

Yeah, but that won't flare up any time soon.


It would actually replace Schengen and since there would be a strict border control all along the Southern borders it would become less of an issue. But that's something for the far future: for now it should be enough to allow a Germanic citizen from each country to enter a Germanic country without a visa (but still with a passport and it will be checked !) and giving him the right of relatively free settlement and movement if he has come to study, bought property, intends to get married, found a job, wishes to retire.There should also be the right to free healthcare for all Germanics: so if they go from one country to the other and fall ill they will receive treatment first.. and if necessary the forms can be filled in later.

Agreed.


I believe that one of the things that we should do is come up with the Latvian definition of citizenship which should reduce immigrants all over the Germanic countries (if they still hold their own passport) no aliens. Non-citizens that should not have the right to vote, not to have the right to unemployment benefits, not have the right to free travel etc. They have one right of free movement: and that's home. And no one will stop them going home.

Agreed. :thumb001:


Yes.. the England-Scotland situation is typical. I think that the qualifications should be standardised and that there should be exchange programs between colleges and universities in the Germanic countries. Maybe we should later on take a look at whether studying in a different Germanic country should be free of charge.

Grades even differ between England & Wales and Scotland.


What it actually means is this: suppose that a Norwegian person travelling in the Netherlands falls ill and he needs medical attention. Sometimes English may not be enough and he needs to speak to someone in Norwegian. That should not be a problem: someone will be found that speaks the language and the patient will not be charged for it. The same goes for a Dutch person travelling in Norway or a German or a Swede etc.

Translators in public services should be free but I think they already are in the UK anyway.


I believe that Germanic Minority Language Convention, as you proposed it, might also work to protect minority languages.

Smaller tongues could be given regional official status like Frisian or the status awarded to Cornish at the very least. I like the Frisian / Welsh model myself, protection in the homeland of the language.


What I mean is that it should be encouraged to use good quality films, music, theatre and books to purposely replace the already existing crap that has come in from the other side of the Atlantic. So good films should be awarded.. and the same goes for good theatrical plays, music and books. And it could be the case that instead of your average Hollywood-rubbish film which seriously ruins your night before the telly you could be watching a Norwegian, German or Swedish film as provided for by your public broadcaster.

If I want to watch something in Swedish I just flick over to BBC4, but sadly the channel is very dreary and most of what is broadcast is about art and music.
They do show foreign language dramas and films with subtitles and no dubbing though and there's sometimes French films on some other channels at night. I saw a Swedish film on there not so long ago, it was very weird but kind of interesting, strange plot and all.

I can't stand all the rubbish coming out of hollywood either, it is either some rubbish comedy or a some over-the-top action film.


There should be a general movement (fuelled by tax money) to do away with the commercial BS on our TV's and in what remains of our cultural life and have films, books, theatrical plays based on things from our history or something to do with our heritage, good drama's and for children good books like Sofies verden instead of the American crap we now get shoved in our face.

There's already a lot of that on TV in Britain both via the BBC and commercial broadcasters.
There's always a sort of contest as to who can do the best historical dramas or documentaries. This needs translating into film.

American rubbish tends to fill the less popular channels with some of the better stuff on the major channels.

[Albion]

This thread and all the narrow-minded conflicts show that Germanic unity can only work under German leadership. :P

Die Gemeinschaft braucht jemanden der führt, der leitet, der sagt wo es lang geht und der den Weg von allen Unwägbarkeiten befreit. Und selbstverständlich auch jemanden der die Gruppe zusammenhält und Streitereien untereinander ausräumt. Wer sollte das anderes sein als das größte Mitglied?

A loose federation of sovereign nations with economic and military partnership or cooperation and a common currency sounds like the best idea. :)

Germany has become some sort of leader for the EU anyway, in a Germanic Union there'd be the overpowering voice of itself and lesser so England watching from the sidelines in CB's proposal.

I think comon currency is a very bad idea even though the Germanic nations do generally have strong economies.
Germany and the Netherlands should have Marks and Guilders again, Scandinavia should stick to Krona, Austria should adopt the Shilling again or a smaller currency union with Germany, etc...

Military co-operation is good so long as it wouldn't lead to another NATO, but most Germanic militaries are quite small and are only good for peacekeeping and national defence only. Well, I suppose that is all they should be used for really.


Ik denk dat het het beste is als er een roterend voorzitterschap is: één jaar Nederland, het volgende jaar IJsland, dan bijvoorbeeld Duitsland of Noorwegen etc. En als we dan aan het einde van de lijst zijn gekomen beginnen we weer overnieuw. Zo komt iedereen een keer aan de beurt en dat is wel zo netjes.

I think this'd be a better idea but I don't know if it will work in theory. At the moment Denmark is leading the EU but we all know it is France and Germany in reality and not just because of the Euro.


Und ob die Faröer Inseln das überhaupt leisten könnten ist eine andere Frage.

The Faroe Islands would be represented by Denmark. Rather than independence I think they should instead federate with Iceland.


The UK hasnt dont too badly.

The Scottish joined England so that it would save them when they were in trouble, today it'd be like Germany allowing Greece to join Germany.

But just imagine how much more powerful Germany would be with Austria, Luxembourg, Alsace, Lichtenstein and Allemanic Switzerland attached. I'm all for this, but it'll never happen.


Or Switzerland or Germany. Hell.. the Netherlands: which started off as a federation of fiefdoms that usually hated each others guts but only hated the paella munchers more.

The union between England and the rest of the UK is disproportional. The English and Scots still do hate each others guts... apparently. ;)


Yes, sure. Like Belgium. How many "divorce procedures" have they been going through already ? Fucking hell I've lost count.

It won't happen. There are roughly 40% of Scots who favour independence, the majority of the rest are unsure rather than pro-Union.

This is why I believe they'll vote No and we'll be stuck with them sadly. The media creates a hype around the subject and nationalists never shut up about it.

I think the date of the referendum is to be announced latter today, I wish someone would ask the English whether they still wanted Scotland in the union. It seems in a union of two kingdoms only one of them is deemed to count, England is just UK-lite. :(

I hope they vote for it though, it'd be a major change and would affect everything - the economy, the NI in the union, the governance of England and probably even international relations.
With Scotland gone the remanant UK would probably be more willing to compromise within international relations perhaps and England would only have Wales and NI to look after then.


And here (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showpost.php?p=668906&postcount=220) Henveren raises a good point - will Norway, Faroe, Iceland, Switzerland or Lichtenstein join?
I think not, they are far more independent-minded then even England but I suppose at least you know where you stand with them unlike us. ;)

Maybe with the break up of the UK we could have a organisation for the British Isles. Such already exists but it is a weak and powerless organisation.
A independent Scotland would still have close relations with England which would still initially at least remain the most important partner to it.

Maybe such a organisation could then co-operate with a Germanic Union in much the same way as the EFTA and EU do. I think a organisation for the British Isles would probably be a lot better since most nations have similar requirements from such an organisation.

[Arrow Cross]

Germany is not only the natural leader of Germanic nations, it is the natural leader of Europe - as it has been obvious since the Early Medieval. It has the numbers, the qualities, the culture and the geographic position for such a role, and when/if the liberal drones currently placed in the seats of leadership by occupying powers are gone, things will be back to normal.

Should Germany ever reclaim its identity and political sovereignty both external and internal, when the likes of the NPD assume power and the Soviet memorials fall, Hungary will be ready to extend a comradely hand once again.

[Albion]

Germany is not only the natural leader of Germanic nations, it is the natural leader of Europe - as it has been obvious since the Early Medieval. It has the numbers, the qualities, the culture and the geographic position for such a role, and when/if the liberal drones currently placed in the seats of leadership by occupying powers are gone, things will be back to normal.

Should Germany ever reclaim its identity and political sovereignty both external and internal, when the likes of the NPD assume power and the Soviet memorials fall, Hungary will be ready to extend a comradely hand once again.

I think to speak of one leader of Europe is wishful thinking, France has always been there to contend that as have Spain, England (latter UK), Italy and Russia to a lesser extent.

[Arrow Cross]

I think to speak of one leader of Europe is wishful thinking, France has always been there to contend that as have Spain, England (latter UK), Italy and Russia to a lesser extent.
Speaking in relative, not absolute terms, of course. The axis around which a machinery spins. Even in today's shame- and guilt-filled times, Germany is the spine of the EU, more than any other country, including France.

If it leaves the Eurozone, the currency will collapse. If it leaves the EU itself... see, that is wishful thinking, although it might not be so in a decade or two.

[Albion]

Speaking in relative, not absolute terms, of course. The axis around which a machinery spins. Even in today's shame- and guilt-filled times, Germany is the spine of the EU, more than any other country, including France.

If it leaves the Eurozone, the currency will collapse. If it leaves the EU itself... see, that is wishful thinking, although it might not be so in a decade or two.

And what if France leaves the Euro? I think the currency would be doomed then as well, probably not an immediate dissolution but it would loose all credibility and a major economy.

Germany is probably the more important of the two though, I suppose it likes to be leader of the pack and gleeful Germans know it.

God, I think the UK is going to have to accept that it is playing second fiddle to Germany, well not even that, probably third with the Franco-German partnership. Oh well, I suppose they're not so bad. :D

[The Lawspeaker]

BUMP. Maybe we Northern-Europeans should revisit this thread.

[ficuscarica]

A Germanic Union, not flooded by immigrants, would be an economical paradise.

We still would have enough to feed the rest of the world through, if we just could do our thing.

[The Lawspeaker]

A Germanic Union, not flooded by immigrants, would be an economical paradise.

We still would have enough to feed the rest of the world through, if we just could do our thing.

I don't think we should bother about feeding the rest of the world. The rest of the world is good enough for import and export and the occasional holiday. The rest of the world will have to learn to feed itself - since we had to do it to.

But I think we would have a fine little confederation and without the bulk of the immigrants we could just watch the population fall to appropriate levels so the natural balance of the population would be restored.

[ficuscarica]

I don't think we should bother about feeding the rest of the world. The rest of the world is good enough for import and export and the occasional holiday. The rest of the world will have to learn to feed itself - since we had to do it to.

But I think we would have a fine little confederation and without the bulk of the immigrants we could just watch the population fall to appropriate levels so the natural balance of the population would be restored.

Right. :thumb001:

[The Lawspeaker]

Our ports would still be booming (more than ever before since we would have less mouths to feed and thus taxes can be somewhat lowered), the ghettos would be gone and with our infrastructure we would manage just fine. Then we can work on getting the country in order again: think of it.. more space for nature, agriculture and parks in cities.

Things would get even better when the babyboom generation buys itself a wooden bungalow with roof garden. They were the generation that, frankly, pissed our hard-won prosperity and the country they inherited up against the wall so by the time they are gone - we the new generation - can really work to correct all the wrongs of the past 40 years.

[The Lawspeaker]

Also an interesting question: what about NATO ? Should we get out asap ?

[Geminus]

I also think closer cooperation between Germanic countries would be a good thing :thumb001:
They are economically stable and reliable partners.

[mysticism]

I'd love a German union. I'd also love a Latin-union (Portugal-Spain-France-Italy) a.k.a. the New Roman Republic. Super states are the way to go.

[The Lawspeaker]

And we know each other very well, we share our blood, our history and our culture so that makes us better partners for each other than the scum from Europe's flipside.

[Albion]

I don't think we should bother about feeding the rest of the world. The rest of the world is good enough for import and export and the occasional holiday. The rest of the world will have to learn to feed itself - since we had to do it to.

I knew you had at least some conservative in you.


But I think we would have a fine little confederation and without the bulk of the immigrants we could just watch the population fall to appropriate levels so the natural balance of the population would be restored.

We could probably encourage retired people to move to poorer, more depopulated regions like Northern England or Eastern Germany too. They'd boost the economies there by bringing their pension money and wouldn't be as weighed down by debts such as mortgages and so would be consumers. This in turn would be good for the economies of these areas by providing employment and money from retail and care jobs, although the services in such places would have to be designed to cater for the elderly well.
This would then leave more expensive, higher-density regions such as Southern England, Western Germany and Southern NL with more property and space and thus better services and cheaper property.
It wouldn't suddenly make it these areas paradise on earth, but they'd be better for it and the elderly could retire to nice places away from hectic city life.


Our ports would still be booming (more than ever before since we would have less mouths to feed and thus taxes can be somewhat lowered), the ghettos would be gone and with our infrastructure we would manage just fine. Then we can work on getting the country in order again: think of it.. more space for nature, agriculture and parks in cities.


Things would get even better when the babyboom generation buys itself a wooden bungalow with roof garden. They were the generation that, frankly, pissed our hard-won prosperity and the country they inherited up against the wall so by the time they are gone - we the new generation - can really work to correct all the wrongs of the past 40 years.

Well, yes. I suppose they were looking out for themselves like everyone else would do though. Sadly they had no concept of living anything decent for future generations as those before them had.


Also an interesting question: what about NATO ? Should we get out asap ?

Nah.

[evon]

I dont think many Norwegians today feel much kinship with Continental Europe (Germanic speaking or not) with the exception of language similarities..the only real similarity is between regional countries, such as Scandinavian countries, perhaps also Holland and Germany have such a regional bond as we Scandinavians have?

[The Lawspeaker]

When it comes to NATO: anything to lessen dependence on the United States and on the rest of Europe is good. So a kind of Germanic Defence League might not be such a bad idea.

[The Lawspeaker]

perhaps also Holland and Germany have such a regional bond as we Scandinavians have?
Yes. And even more so between the countries of the BeNeLux.

[Albion]

When it comes to NATO: anything to lessen dependence on the United States and on the rest of Europe is good. So a kind of Germanic Defence League might not be such a bad idea.

It would probably work, although Germany won't be building a large military any time soon.
We could ditch Trident and nuclear weapons sharing and develop our own instead. Any such military alliance would have to be purely defensive.

[arcticwolf]

It would probably work, although Germany won't be building a large military any time soon.
We could ditch Trident and nuclear weapons sharing and develop our own instead. Any such military alliance would have to be purely defensive.

I see. So you do not support the Anglosphere, eh? ;)
Plotting with the "enemy" against the Good Old U.S. of A.? :laugh:

[mysticism]

A unified Germanic state, from Netherlands all the way to Sweden and Austria.

Only way to unify the tribes and protect the German strain from dying out. (as it already is in Austria).

[Peyrol]

I'd love a German union. I'd also love a Latin-union (Portugal-Spain-France-Italy) a.k.a. the New Roman Republic. Super states are the way to go.

No, thanks.

[mysticism]

No, thanks.

I respect this.

[Peyrol]

I respect this.

We have a lot of differences and all the latin states have their unique culture and a rich history (and, talking about Italy, we have also different histories and different cultures even in our same regions); so, i assume and respect our common roots, but a kind of "Senatus PopulusQue Romanus" in 2012 would be something ridiculous and the death of our cultural differences (and also an economical disaster for France and Northern Italy).

[Rouxinol]

Do they even feel close to each other? I mean, does a Norwegian have any feelings of kinship to a German? Or an English person to an Austrian one? I understand that Spain, Italy, France, Portugal can relate to some extent, not only by some cultural similarities, but above all by language (especially Spain and Portugal due to linguistic and historical evolutions). I think that a Scandinavian union (Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Iceland) could work. Or a German union (Germany, Austria, Switzerland, perhaps the Netherlands and Flanders) but not a Germanic one - I am not seeing the British very fond of the idea, specifically.

[The Lawspeaker]

A unified Germanic state, from Netherlands all the way to Sweden and Austria.

Only way to unify the tribes and protect the German strain from dying out. (as it already is in Austria).

No thanks, American.

[Anglojew]

I support the Anglosphere but it would make sense for the Germanic countries to join as they have the same culture and work ethic. If this economic confederation replaced the EU it would be the dominant entity in the world;

Belgium (or at least the Flemmish)
Denmark
Germany
Sweden
Norway
Iceland
Holland
UK
Australia
New Zealand
Canada
USA
Austria