ID cards 'a step closer'

[Beorn]

ID cards 'a step closer'


http://www.politics.co.uk/photo/id-card-$14848$300.jpg


Plans to introduce ID cards came a step closer today after the government announced it had awarded contracts for the technologies required to process applications and store the data.
The Identity and Passport Service (IPS) will replace and upgrade its current systems for both enhanced passports and the controversial ID card scheme in deals worth £650 million.

The contracts form part of the wider system which uses facial and fingerprint recognition technology and will cost the taxpayer more than £4.8billion over the next ten years.
"These contracts bring ID cards and more secure British passports a step closer," said home secretary Jacqui Smith.
"These improvements will further help protect our borders."
Foreign nationals are already being issued with ID cards and airside staff at Manchester and London City airports will be issued with cards from the autumn as part of an 18 month evaluation period.

However, as reported by politics.co.uk (http://www.politics.co.uk/news/policing-and-crime/two-months-on-and-police-still-can-t-read-id-cards-$1266884.htm) despite continued investment in the technology required to process and store the information, UK security forces still lack the capability to read data stored on cards.
National co-ordinator of NO2ID Phil Booth said this was further proof of the "billion pound bonanza" for companies involved in the ID cards scheme.
He described the move as a "blatant piece of Home Office empire building", adding that in the current financial situation such excessive public spending "flies in the face of both common sense and political reality".
"Issuing complicated mega-contracts in an attempt to tie future governments to their ID ambitions is a bit of a last gasp effort," he said.
"Both the Conservatives and the Lib Dems have pledged to scrap the scheme, and the excuse that 'this would all need to be done anyway' has worn so thin you can see holes right through it."

James Hall, IPS chief executive, said: "The British passport is already one of the most secure in the world and it is vital we maintain that strength by moving with the rest of the international community.
"That is why as we replace expiring contracts we are introducing fingerprint and facial biometric technology to the passport.
"At the same time we are upgrading our application process to improve the service our customers receive. Both contracts will also help deliver the ID cards programme."

The contract to upgrade the IPS's application and enrolment system was awarded to CSC while the technology required to store the information will be provided by IBM.
CSC won the contract from a group of 50 prospective bidders back in September 2007 which were reduced to a shortlist of five before hundreds of face-to-face meetings to determine the final choice.
Mr Hall said: "IBM and CSC have shown they are superbly placed to deliver these large projects and we are delighted they are working with us."
The Scottish National party (SNP) described the government's commitment to the plans as "absurd".

SNP home affairs spokesperson Pete Wishart said: "Labour’s abysmal record on data protection is reason enough to abandon ID cards but it is even more absurd pushing ahead with this costly project given the dire state of the UK government's finances."
ID cards will be available to volunteers from later this year before the government begins issuing them to young people in 2010.
Source (http://www.politics.co.uk/news//news//policing-and-crime/id-cards-a-step-closer--$1286123.htm)

[Freomæg]

"Both the Conservatives and the Lib Dems have pledged to scrap the scheme..."
What's the bet they change their minds when in power because of some 'unforeseen' security concerns.

[Psychonaut]

Wat, why do you oppose ID cards?

[Loki]

Wat, why do you oppose ID cards?

I don't see anything wrong with them either -- provided that the information retained would be basic identification, not some dodgy complete profile about us on a government database. I want to retain my privacy as much as possible.

[Freomæg]

Wat, why do you oppose ID cards?
Is that a genuine question Psychonaut? I'd like to answer it too, if I may.

The Nationalist might wonder why another Nationalist opposes something which can only help to control illegal immigration. The problem is that it does so at the expense of our most basic liberties. Illegal immigration (and all immigration for that matter) can be effectively controlled without the need for ID cards - have passports prevented the problem?

Fact is, the Government are not introducing ID cards to help control immigration. They're doing it to restrict the liberties of all British citizens. It is an Orwellian step too far and I for one will be rejecting the ID card.

[Psychonaut]

The problem is that it does so at the expense of our most basic liberties.

How does an ID card (just an ID card mind you, not some kind of biometric nonsense) curtail your liberties?

...and yes, this is a genuine, non-rhetorical question :D

[Skandi]

An id card would not, after all we already have a driving licence and passport, I'll admit that you don't have to have these, but it is almost impossible to get by with out them. One of my main objections to the ID card is that is WILL be biometric, and it will be compulsory. I often go out without my wallet, soon it seems that will be against the law.

[Freomæg]

How does an ID card (just an ID card mind you, not some kind of biometric nonsense) curtail your liberties?
From what I gather, you'll not be able to travel internationally without an ID card, therefore making it compulsory, effectively.

As Thrymheim said, you'll be obliged to carry it at all times and obliged to present it to any and all authorities. The card will be connected to a central database and in an instant, a policeman, bank, train conductor etc will know everything about you. Now, there goes the saying "nothing to fear if you have nothing to hide". Well I have something to hide: my privacy.

At present, the only terrifying thing I know for sure about the NID card is that it's only the beginning. There are already proposals for biometric chips as a step-up from NID cards and as with everything the New World Order does, its progression will be incremental. First you'll not be able to leave the country without an NID card, then you'll not be eleigible for healthcare without one, then you'll not be permitted to buy food without one.

It's 1984 come true. We'll all be reduced to a microchip (the mark of the beast?) not a name, not a human being. Our entire lives will be governed by a compulsory card in our wallets. Our basic freedoms stolen by it.

Previously we were all innocent until proven guilty. From now on we won't even be sentenced by a judge and jury but automatically by the information stored about us in a central database. If our lifestyles and demeanours do not fit the preset approval of Government tyrants, we'll be treated as criminals instantly.

Overall though, it represents the opening of the floodgates. Once the ID card is in effect, all kinds of Draconian measures become reality. And besides all this, we're being told it's for one thing (terrorism) when it's really for another (totalitarianism). That in itself rings ALL the alarm bells.

[Crose]

^ Agreed.

" war is peace, freedom is slavery, ignorance is strength."

Goodbye freedom.. hello multiculturalism. Aren't we supposed to just soak it all up?

[Solwyn]

My province is currently the testing ground for a "new and enhanced" (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2009/01/19/photo-identification.html?ref=rss) provincial ID that will also serve to replace passports at the US border if you are not flying into the country. According to the CBC article above, it is not supposed to contain personal information but it does, because it contains your vital stats, which are used to prove who you are, of course. It also has a chip to log your comings and goings at the border. I resist getting one, but if the program succeeds, it will be the ID for all provincial dealings and I will have to have it. There was excited happy talk when these first rolled out a couple of months ago (the articles are from earlier this year) about how eventually we could have ALL of our information on this lovely little chip.

:coffee:

According to this article (http://www.cbc.ca/canada/manitoba/story/2009/02/25/mb-identity-cards.html?ref=rss), anyone with the correct scanner can grab your information. I laughed out loud at the part which talked about the piece of foil in the new passports that blocks scanners from reading passports when they are closed.

Tin foil hats so they can't read our thoughts? :lightbul:

[RoyBatty]

What's the bet they change their minds when in power because of some 'unforeseen' security concerns.

It's just typical.... you can bet that neither the LibDems nor the Conservatives will reverse any of NuLabour's draconian and repressive edicts and powers including for ones such as police raiding a house without a search warrant if "it's believed unauthorised hypnotism may be taking place there". How about the utility companies breaking into one's house in order to install power / water meters..... etc etc etc.

[RoyBatty]

I don't see anything wrong with them either -- provided that the information retained would be basic identification, not some dodgy complete profile about us on a government database. I want to retain my privacy as much as possible.

A number of countries require some form of internal ID. In the US a drivers license is probably a rough equivalent. In Russia it is the internal passport. I think that Belgium (perhaps also NL) have some kind internal ID card.

I don't have a problem with the ID card as such but am also concerned about profiles being built up by the Govt and its favoured Corporations who are in cahoots with it. Unfortunately there's not that much we can really do to avoid it. There are some sensible precautions to take though.

- Avoid Facebook / Social Networking sites. Why do the STASI'S work for them for free? Let them collect their own profiling information.

- Be sparse with registration details on sites which require it. Try to avoid using your real identity where possible.

- Don't send "sensitive" emails, be careful about what you get up to on websites (or use a proxy.... but even those could belong to Big Brother.. we just don't know), be very careful of cellphone usage with regards to both texting and conversations. (Same obviously applies to landlines).

To remain reasonably anonymous on a cellular / mobile phone, buy a prepay simcard with CASH and top up with CASH ONLY. Also, the handset needs to have been acquired via a CASH sale with no records leading back to you.

A friend of mine was involved in the setup of call monitoring systems at O2 (mobile provider in the UK). They installed Israeli made telco equipment which can listen in on any calls they want to. The equipment itself is "managed and maintained" out of Israel so whatever the authorities in the UK listen to, Tel Aviv is listening to as well.

Use of encryption to protect communications may also not be such a smart idea as one would initially think. It attracts attention and there are sometimes ways to circumvent and break it.

[Beorn]

Wat, why do you oppose ID cards?

It's not so much that I oppose the ID cards overall. I actually think ID cards would be a great thing if used discreetly and unobtrusively by the authorities, but this is the British we're talking about here, and being sensitive to the rights and feelings of the British populace is always the last thing on the agenda, but the first thing in mind whilst attempting to propose new, radical systems.

I don't believe the cards would prevent terrorism or terrorists from operating within Britain, as Charles Clarke and David Blunkett openly admitted.

I could go on with the downsides to initiating an ID card system, but the one that makes me oppose it is the compulsory registering of the cards with a considerable fee to pay for the pleasure of owning one.

It's not been officially declared how much each card would cost each person (that I'm aware of), but figures from £60 to £300 for each card have been reported.

[stormlord]

I can't stand it when people are accepting of infringement of their liberties as long as it's not too inconvenient. The point isn't about the substance of what id cards contain etc etc etc, it's the principle; Britain isn't the sort of country where a free man has to justify himself to the state; he may go where he wants when he wants for his own reasons without some jumped up continental type policeman demanding to see his "papers" or else he'll be taken away. This isn't Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, what will it be next, Travel Permits?

[Psychonaut]

It's not so much that I oppose the ID cards overall. I actually think ID cards would be a great thing if used discreetly and unobtrusively by the authorities

OK. I think we can pretty much agree then. I too am convinced that the authorities would continually expand the data that the ID cards would link to. However, if it were just a simple ID card, it would be much easier for illegal immigrants to be rooted out.

[Beorn]

However, if it were just a simple ID card, it would be much easier for illegal immigrants to be rooted out.

Even that reason arises problems for me. Guaranteed it will "root out" illegal immigrants currently within Britain, but in Britain it is believed that the cost for a simple ID card will total over £650 million over a ten year period and all at the expense of the tax payer.

Now, we know it's not going to stop terrorism. The ex-Home secretary said so himself. So what is the justification for these cards? Illegal Immigration?

Couldn't the £4.8 billion simply be spent on training and tightening border control with more funds reserved for the immigration agency?*




*(I can't think of their official name at present)

[Freomæg]

Couldn't the £4.8 billion simply be spent on training and tightening border control with more funds reserved for the immigration agency?
Precisely! It just doesn't add up. And I have to disagree with you when you say it'll root out illegal immigrants within Britain. For a start, that's not something the Marxist Labout government even want to do, deep down. They'd like to appear as though that's their aim, whilst in reality they want to attract as many voters and foreigners to subvert the cultural unity of Britain. Hence I believe that even when they say the ID card is to root out illegal immigrants, that's not what they really intend to use it for primarily.

[RoyBatty]

I can't stand it when people are accepting of infringement of their liberties as long as it's not too inconvenient. The point isn't about the substance of what id cards contain etc etc etc, it's the principle; Britain isn't the sort of country where a free man has to justify himself to the state; he may go where he wants when he wants for his own reasons without some jumped up continental type policeman demanding to see his "papers" or else he'll be taken away. This isn't Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union, what will it be next, Travel Permits?

Britain may be a lot of things (some good some bad) but "free" isn't really one of them. It's become a surveillance society policed and controlled by small special interests groups who introduce an increasing number of laws with which to threaten, control, punish and potentially imprison the citizen.

Free societies don't

- spy on their general population,
- tell them how they are supposed to live,
- tell them how they are to educate their children,
- forcibly take children from families in order to hand them to "gay" adoptive parents,
- [and so forth]

PS, This isn't a "I'm knocking Britain" post, I'm just pointing out some facts.

To be as close to "free" as it gets ones best bet is to head for a screwed up Bananastan where nobody really cares what you get up to. In the 1st World the name of the game is now to build profiles and collect data on everybody and everything "to protect us from terror and to combat crime". Haha :rolleyes:

[RoyBatty]

Precisely! It just doesn't add up. And I have to disagree with you when you say it'll root out illegal immigrants within Britain. For a start, that's not something the Marxist Labout government even want to do, deep down. They'd like to appear as though that's their aim, whilst in reality they want to attract as many voters and foreigners to subvert the cultural unity of Britain. Hence I believe that even when they say the ID card is to root out illegal immigrants, that's not what they really intend to use it for primarily.

Indeed, I remember seeing a clip on British Bolshevik Cooperative News where some Toff (Tory / Labour...they're all the same) was singing the praises of globalisation and free labour movement.

Guys like him were "lovin' it" because that's how they kept salaries low (for both the immigrant labourer and the British worker) and they were maximising their profits. Seeing as these are the people who form the core of Labour / Tory / Lib Dems financial donor groups, obviously no Westminster Politician worth his Bentley and 4th London Home Claims are going to be opposed to globalisation or mass immigration. It's their bread and butter!

[stormlord]

Britain may be a lot of things (some good some bad) but "free" isn't really one of them. It's become a surveillance society policed and controlled by small special interests groups who introduce an increasing number of laws with which to threaten, control, punish and potentially imprison the citizen.

Free societies don't

- spy on their general population,
- tell them how they are supposed to live,
- tell them how they are to educate their children,
- forcibly take children from families in order to hand them to "gay" adoptive parents,
- [and so forth]

PS, This isn't a "I'm knocking Britain" post, I'm just pointing out some facts.

To be as close to "free" as it gets ones best bet is to head for a screwed up Bananastan where nobody really cares what you get up to. In the 1st World the name of the game is now to build profiles and collect data on everybody and everything "to protect us from terror and to combat crime". Haha :rolleyes:

Point taken but I'm talking about the real Britain, and more specifically England, not the current marxist police state apparatus that has been draped over it's beaten, bound and gagged body. Perhaps it might be suggested that I should have said "Britain wasn't the sort of country" but I like to think that the true Britain still exists underneath all of Labour's filth (not that the conservatives are any better anymore) and that it is something we can get back to.

[RoyBatty]

I don't mean to sound negative but there'll be no going back to old Blighty unless pretty radical surgery is performed. When I say radical surgery I effectively mean turning the existing order of things upside down.

Pretty much every institution you can think of over here has been infiltrated and poisoned by special interests and pro-EU mafias who are well organised, well funded and well represented in all the major political parties, on local councils, in the media, the police, the judiciary, the financial sectors and so forth.

Furthermore, there are similar movements at work throughout the rest of the EU. I think we need to face up to the reality that the present and especially the future will be very different to the relatively free Britain and Western World we once knew.

[Beorn]

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[Beorn]

ID cards: Manchester will be the guinea pig (http://www.politics.co.uk/news//news//legal-and-constitutional/id-cards-manchester-will-be-the-guinea-pig-$1293284.htm)

The Home Office will pilot test the ID cards scheme in Manchester, Jacqui Smith announced today. Residents will be able to apply for an ID card this autumn, before the rest of the country in 2012.
The decision marks a sense of increased momentum among government officials, after various ministerial statements indicated the project could become a victim of cutbacks.
Figures released today by the Home Office show cost estimates have increased by £160 million in six months, but the figure excludes costs to business, the public, or any part of government other than the Home Office.

It is a forward-looking estimate only and therefore ignores the £250 million already spent on the scheme.
Liberal Democrat shadow home secretary Chris Huhne said: "It is crazy to fritter away billions of pounds on an unnecessary and intrusive ID card scheme during the biggest crisis in public finances for a generation.
"It shows just how out of touch ministers are that they think charging people through the nose to invade their privacy is acceptable."
The Home Office is already in talks with high street retailers to provide the biometric cards – or information to biometric passports.

"The companies interested in working with us to deliver the service will play a key role in ensuring the public can apply for an ID card or passport simply and easily," the home secretary said today.
"While private companies will clearly benefit from the increased footfall from offering this service, their customers will benefit from being able to quickly provide their biometrics while they are out doing the shopping."
But opposition parties – both of which oppose the plans – said it was time for Ms Smith to let the £5 billion scheme go.
"The government is split down the middle on ID cards but it looks as if Jacqui Smith is carrying on regardless," said shadow home secretary Chris Grayling.

"Piloting the scheme in one city is nonsensical and will only serve as a tax on the people of Manchester.

"They should abandon this farce and scrap the whole scheme."
Phil Booth, national coordinator of NO2ID, said: "Five years in, the admitted Home Office costs are over £5 billion – and they're suspiciously silent on fees. Anyone who registers now has been conned into signing away their privacy for life and giving the government a blank cheque."
Late April saw a surge of non-committal responses from government officials over the scheme. Asked at the Institute of Directors conference is he supported the cards, chancellor Alistair Darling appeared to row back on government support.

"ID cards are an interesting point because the lion's share of the expenditure is going on biometric passport," he told Sky News.
"Your old conventional bog-standard passport was okay but it was not too difficult to improvise, shall I say. The biometrics means that it's very much more difficult. That is the bigger cost."
The former home secretary David Blunkett appeared to contradict years of positive statements on the issue by suggesting the overall goals should be transferred to biometric passports.
Asked whether ID cards could be dropped, he told the BBC: "I think it is possible to mandate biometric passports.

"Most people already have a passport but they might want something more convenient to carry around than the current passport and may be able to have it as a piece of plastic for an extra cost."
Plans to combine passport biometrics and ID cards – confirmed by recent contracts with IBM and US computer company CSC – will make it far more difficult for the Tories to scrap the scheme if they attain power.
Downing Street took advantage of this, saying that "the idea you can suddenly save billions of pounds for the taxpayer" without scrapping biometric passports as well was unrealistic.
"The suggestion you could save the £5.3 billion... that could be magically found from scrapping ID cards is clearly not the case if you decide to keep biometric passports," the prime minister's spokesman said.
On Monday, the British Airline Pilots' Association (Balpa) announced a legal challenge to Home Office plans to trial the scheme on 'critical' airside workers.

The government said the £18 million scheme was voluntary, but pilots are incensed they will be unable to qualify for a vital 'airside pass' without a card.

[Beorn]

Taxman can use database of ID cards to track our spending habits and bank accounts (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1182926/Taxman-use-database-ID-cards-track-spending-habits-bank-accounts.html)

Personal data gathered for the controversial ID cards scheme will be made available to the taxman. HM Revenue and Customs officials will be able to trawl through a person's financial transactions for hints of any undeclared earnings or bank accounts.
The revelation last night renewed fury about the £5.5billion ID cards project.

There was already widespread concern that the Home Office, police and security officials would have access to the scheme's database.
But campaigners said handing information to tax inspectors was a sinister development.
The powers that give 'Commissioners for Revenue and Customs' access to the ID cards audit log were buried away in orders laid before Parliament earlier this week - at the same time as the full extent of the expenses scandal was emerging.

The log records each time a card has been used to verify a person's identity when they make a big value purchase, open a bank account or take out a mortgage.
If a large number of verifications for big items are recorded, it could signal to the taxman a person earns more money than they declared. Undeclared second homes could also lead to higher tax payments.
The audit trail will also include checks made by employers that a person applying for a job is here legally. This could also make the taxman aware of any undeclared second occupations.
Phil Booth, of the NO2ID campaign, said: 'It would be hypocrisy of the highest order for politicians so reluctant to come clean on their own personal finances to pass legislation that would let the taxman snoop through all of ours.

'The big lie of the ID scheme is that it's for our benefit - the detail shows it's all about giving the bureaucrats and bean-counters more control.'
The Home Office says the ID card scheme will make life easier for both businesses and their customers. Companies will be charged around 60p a time to check details held on the giant 'big brother' database.
Every time a check is made against the ID card, it will be logged on the National Identity Register - and the details made available to the taxman.
Officials hope for up to 770million 'verifications' each year.
The data includes addresses, any second homes and National Insurance numbers.

Firms will be told that using the scheme will cut millions from their annual fraud bills and save them hefty fines for employing illegal immigrants.
Officials believe it will be cheaper for companies to confirm identity through the database than by using current methods such as bills and driving licences. The Home Office said businesses would need a person's consent to check information about them.
Official documents reveal that some 44,000 organisations could be 'accredited' to carry out verification checks.
They range from Whitehall departments, banks and financial institutions to mobile phone and video rental shops.
It comes after Jacqui Smith's announcement earlier this month that members of the public will be expected to have their fingerprints taken at the Post Office or in high street shops and pharmacies when they sign up for a card or passport.
At present, the right to take fingerprints is largely restricted to the police.

[Freomæg]

I'm stunned! Thanks for that Wat. I mean, I knew this was on the cards (excuse the pun), but to actually read that the ID card will be used to track and control our spending and finances is beyond terrifying. Surely the nation won't accept this?!?!? :( Surely this is a HUGE step too far.

[RoyBatty]

I'm stunned! Thanks for that Wat. I mean, I knew this was on the cards (excuse the pun), but to actually read that the ID card will be used to track and control our spending and finances is beyond terrifying. Surely the nation won't accept this?!?!? :( Surely this is a HUGE step too far.

You know how it is comrade. "The Nation" are sheep (it's the same in every country). They'll meekly be led to the slaughter like lambs. The recent expenses fiasco in Westminster may have woken a few sheep up from their comfortable $$$ chasing slumber but it's unlikely to move the majority.

Yes I know I'm sounding extremely pessimistic and negative but I honestly don't know how to counter the special interests mafias amongst us. It requires money, organisation, power and influence and due to the fact that there is no credible resistance to these people we're screwed.