View Full Version : Are Modern Armenians indigenous to Armenia? According to Ancient DNA they are not!
Theoo
11-04-2021, 06:00 AM
110721
credit goes to G25
You should always check results using IBS since G25 is not very reliable. Even it's creator Davidski doesn't use it in his blogs because he knows better.
Here's IBS results. These samples aren't really that great quality so you have to keep in mind the rankings could be a little off
<colgroup width="177"></colgroup> <colgroup width="96"></colgroup> <tbody>
IBS WITH Armenia_MBA
IBS
Russia_Abkhasian
0.67244
Adygei
0.67207
Chechen
0.67096
Armenian
0.67088
Lezgin
0.67086
Albanian.DG
0.67053
Georgian
0.67052
Spanish
0.6704
Basque
0.67036
Greek
0.67
Czech
0.66986
English
0.66984
Polish
0.6696
Russia_NorthOssetian
0.66954
French
0.66943
Jew_Iraqi
0.66938
Bulgarian
0.66913
Sardinian
0.66904
Druze
0.66904
Orcadian
0.66902
Tuscan
0.66897
Turkish
0.66894
Kurds
0.66873
Iranian
0.66841
Finnish
0.66787
Icelandic
0.66783
BedouinB
0.6678
Estonian
0.66777
Hungarian
0.66757
Jordanian
0.66745
Russian
0.66717
Brahui
0.66704
Tajik
0.66694
Makrani
0.66665
Kalash
0.66631
Pathan
0.66604
Sindhi
0.66593
Jew_Yemenite
0.66588
Balochi
0.66511
Saami
0.66467
Burusho
0.66448
Punjabi
0.66286
Bengali
0.66064
Mansi
0.6606
Saharawi
0.66046
Mala
0.66044
Hazara
0.66008
Uyghur
0.66
</tbody>
<colgroup width="214"></colgroup> <colgroup width="96"></colgroup> <tbody>
IBS WITH Armenia_LchashenMetsamor
IBS
Greek
0.67413
Russia_Abkhasian
0.67399
Georgian
0.67341
Lezgin
0.67311
Armenian
0.67305
Chechen
0.67286
Kurds
0.67284
Adygei
0.67265
Bulgarian
0.67261
Tuscan
0.67251
Icelandic
0.67234
French
0.67211
Russia_NorthOssetian
0.67198
Iranian
0.67195
Albanian.DG
0.67177
Sardinian
0.6716
Czech
0.67156
Turkish
0.67155
Jew_Iraqi
0.67149
Spanish
0.67142
Basque
0.67141
English
0.67135
Finnish
0.67102
Estonian
0.67081
Druze
0.67078
BedouinB
0.67075
Polish
0.67069
Jew_Yemenite
0.67067
Orcadian
0.67041
Russian
0.67016
Jordanian
0.67015
Kalash
0.67007
Hungarian
0.67001
Pathan
0.66991
Sindhi
0.66914
Tajik
0.66899
Brahui
0.66896
Makrani
0.66847
Balochi
0.66762
Burusho
0.66728
Saami
0.6662
Punjabi
0.66563
Mansi
0.66349
Bengali
0.66317
Hazara
0.66317
Mala
0.66284
Uyghur
0.66277
Saharawi
0.66275
Irula
0.66256
</tbody>
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Arzanene
11-05-2021, 03:25 AM
well eastern Armenia was inhabited by different kura araxes tribal cultures. prior to Urartu's expansion into the regions east of the Araxes river, Armenians only lived in what is today Ağrı, Van, Muş, Bitlis, Elazig and southern Erzurum.
the areas east of the Araxes shifted between different cultures from Dagestani like populations to Kartvelian to Anatolian like. The Areni C population itself broken down shows a population which is mixed between Armenian or Anatolian, Dagestani, and Iranic which is why they cluster close to Udis.
And if you check the Neolithic Azeri lowland culture samples, it shows a population that is similar in makeup to modern Armenians, but I don't believe these were Armenians. either way some kura araxes peoples were already a lot like Armenians genetically.
I warned earlier that if you're West Eurasian, don't expect Bronze Age Continuity. This includes Armenians.
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 03:38 AM
well eastern Armenia was inhabited by different kura araxes tribal cultures. prior to Urartu's expansion into the regions east of the Araxes river, Armenians only lived in what is today Ağrı, Van, Muş, Bitlis, Elazig and southern Erzurum.
the areas east of the Araxes shifted between different cultures from Dagestani like populations to Kartvelian to Anatolian like. The Areni C population itself broken down shows a population which is mixed between Armenian or Anatolian, Dagestani, and Iranic which is why they cluster close to Udis.
And if you check the Neolithic Azeri lowland culture samples, it shows a population that is similar in makeup to modern Armenians, but I don't believe these were Armenians. either way some kura araxes peoples were already a lot like Armenians genetically.
The Azer Caucasus Lowlands sample was similar to modern-day Armenians but without the steppe component.
The Azer Caucasus Lowlands sample was similar to modern-day Armenians but without the steppe component.
What do you suppose happened?
Voskos
11-05-2021, 03:49 AM
You should always check results using IBS since G25 is not very reliable. Even it's creator Davidski doesn't use it in his blogs because he knows better
Lmao!
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 03:50 AM
What do you suppose happened?
Steppe input. That's pretty much what separates Armenians today from the Gardmank Lowlands sample. Otherwise, they're like 85-90% identical.
Steppe input. That's pretty much what separates Armenians today from the Gardmank Lowlands sample. Otherwise, they're like 85-90% identical.
Mind showing me?
Because this is what I see:
Target: Armenian
Distance: 1.7049% / 0.01704928
56.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
17.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
14.8 Levant_PPNB
7.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: ARM_MBA
Distance: 1.6334% / 0.01633380
57.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
25.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
9.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
4.4 Levant_PPNB
2.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 Nganassan
0.2 MAR_Taforalt
Target: ARM_Lchashen_MBA
Distance: 1.8221% / 0.01822074
53.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
22.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
10.8 Levant_PPNB
7.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.6 TUR_Barcin_N
2.0 Nganassan
0.4 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
Target: ARM_LBA
Distance: 1.7840% / 0.01784022
56.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
26.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
7.0 TUR_Barcin_N
5.8 Levant_PPNB
2.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.2 MAR_Taforalt
0.6 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
0.2 ETH_4500BP
Target: ARM_Areni_C
Distance: 2.4541% / 0.02454091
36.6 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
35.6 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
20.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
5.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 Levant_PPNB
0.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
0.4 Nganassan
Steppe input. That's pretty much what separates Armenians today from the Gardmank Lowlands sample. Otherwise, they're like 85-90% identical.
Mind showing me?
Because this is what I see:
Target: Armenian
Distance: 1.7049% / 0.01704928
56.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
17.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
14.8 Levant_PPNB
7.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: ARM_MBA
Distance: 1.6334% / 0.01633380
57.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
25.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
9.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
4.4 Levant_PPNB
2.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 Nganassan
0.2 MAR_Taforalt
Target: ARM_Lchashen_MBA
Distance: 1.8221% / 0.01822074
53.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
22.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
10.8 Levant_PPNB
7.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.6 TUR_Barcin_N
2.0 Nganassan
0.4 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
Target: ARM_LBA
Distance: 1.7840% / 0.01784022
56.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
26.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
7.0 TUR_Barcin_N
5.8 Levant_PPNB
2.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.2 MAR_Taforalt
0.6 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
0.2 ETH_4500BP
Target: ARM_Areni_C
Distance: 2.4541% / 0.02454091
36.6 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
35.6 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
20.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
5.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 Levant_PPNB
0.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
0.4 Nganassan
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 04:44 AM
Mind showing me?
Because this is what I see:
Target: Armenian
Distance: 1.7049% / 0.01704928
56.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
17.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
14.8 Levant_PPNB
7.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
Target: ARM_MBA
Distance: 1.6334% / 0.01633380
57.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
25.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
9.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
4.4 Levant_PPNB
2.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 Nganassan
0.2 MAR_Taforalt
Target: ARM_Lchashen_MBA
Distance: 1.8221% / 0.01822074
53.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
22.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
10.8 Levant_PPNB
7.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.6 TUR_Barcin_N
2.0 Nganassan
0.4 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
Target: ARM_LBA
Distance: 1.7840% / 0.01784022
56.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
26.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
7.0 TUR_Barcin_N
5.8 Levant_PPNB
2.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.2 MAR_Taforalt
0.6 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
0.2 ETH_4500BP
Target: ARM_Areni_C
Distance: 2.4541% / 0.02454091
36.6 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
35.6 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
20.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
5.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 Levant_PPNB
0.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
0.4 Nganassan
My pleasure:
Target: Armenian_updated
Distance: 1.7197% / 0.01719744
47.4 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
21.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
15.8 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C
10.4 RUS_Catacomb
4.6 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
And a simpler model:
Target: Armenian_updated
Distance: 2.3080% / 0.02307972
89.0 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN
11.0 RUS_Catacomb
Babak
11-05-2021, 05:12 AM
Yea they are. The majority of west asians are natives with additional steppe/turkic input depending on the ethnicity.
Armenians are 80-90% native+additional proto-arnenian steppe admixture.
My pleasure:
Target: Armenian_updated
Distance: 1.7197% / 0.01719744
47.4 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
21.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
15.8 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C
10.4 RUS_Catacomb
4.6 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
And a simpler model:
Target: Armenian_updated
Distance: 2.3080% / 0.02307972
89.0 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN
11.0 RUS_Catacomb
Sitting there since Late Neolithic, skipping ARM_Areni_C, till Late EBA, getting Catacomb admix, and then skipping ARM_Lchashen_MBA, ARM_MBA and ARM_LBA all the way to now.
Aside from this not fitting well in G25, does this fit well in your head?
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 05:40 AM
Sitting there since Late Neolithic, skipping ARM_Areni_C, till Late EBA, getting Catacomb admix, and then skipping ARM_Lchashen_MBA, ARM_MBA and ARM_LBA all the way to now.
Aside from this not fitting well in G25, does this fit well in your head?
Refer to my 1st run- they're mostly BA samples.
The last one was simply used to highlight the fact that Armenians are very similar to the Caucasus Lowlands sample with additional steppe input. Basically native+some steppe affinity.
It's not complicated.
Theoo
11-05-2021, 06:46 AM
Refer to my 1st run- they're mostly BA samples.
The last one was simply used to highlight the fact that Armenians are very similar to the Caucasus Lowlands sample with additional steppe input. Basically native+some steppe affinity.
It's not complicated.
Refer to my 1st run- they're mostly BA samples.
The last one was simply used to highlight the fact that Armenians are very similar to the Caucasus Lowlands sample with additional steppe input. Basically native+some steppe affinity.
It's not complicated.
The Armenians carry with them a Mesopotamian origin, later they mingled with the Caucasian (Azeri) natives in this region.
The question is where and when did the Armenians get their Mesopotamian origin from?
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 06:54 AM
The Armenians carry with them a Mesopotamian origin, later they mingled with the Caucasian (Azeri) natives in this region.
The question is where and when did the Armenians get their Mesopotamian origin from?
What Mesopotamian origin are you talking about? Did you not see the model I made where it shows Armenians to be roughly 90% native to the region with the rest being steppe?
Azeris aren't Caucasian natives lol. They're Iranian-like with some Turkic input lol
Theoo
11-05-2021, 07:08 AM
What Mesopotamian origin are you talking about? Did you not see the model I made where it shows Armenians to be roughly 90% native to the region with the rest being steppe?
Azeris aren't Caucasian natives lol. They're Iranian-like with some Turkic input lol
Target: Armenian_Hemsheni
Distance: 0.9181% / 0.00918128 | R4P
38.2 RUS_Maykop_Late <<<(Caucasian)
24.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
24.4 TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC
13.0 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
Target: Armenian_Erzurum
Distance: 0.9016% / 0.00901619 | R4P
44.4 TUR_Alalakh_MLBA <<<(Levantine)
35.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kalavan
16.0 ARM_Areni_C
4.2 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA_o1
Target: Armenian
Distance: 0.7056% / 0.00705641 | R4P
57.2 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA <<< (Levantine)
18.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
17.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kalavan
7.2 TKM_IA
Target: Azerbaijani_Turkey
Distance: 0.9633% / 0.00963264 | R4P
58.8 ARM_Areni_C <<< (Caucasian Armenian)
17.6 Levant_Yehud_IBA
17.6 TKM_Parkhai_MBA
6.0 CHN_Shimao_LN
Only the Armenian-Hemsheni can pass for Caucasian, the rest are a combination of Mesopotamian and Levantine people.
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 07:11 AM
Target: Armenian_Hemsheni
Distance: 0.9181% / 0.00918128 | R4P
38.2 RUS_Maykop_Late <<<(Caucasian)
24.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
24.4 TUR_Camlibel_Tarlasi_LC
13.0 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
Target: Armenian_Erzurum
Distance: 0.9016% / 0.00901619 | R4P
44.4 TUR_Alalakh_MLBA <<<(Levantine)
35.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kalavan
16.0 ARM_Areni_C
4.2 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA_o1
Target: Armenian
Distance: 0.7056% / 0.00705641 | R4P
57.2 TUR_Arslantepe_EBA <<< (Levantine)
18.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
17.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kalavan
7.2 TKM_IA
Only the Armenian-Hemsheni can pass for Caucasian, the rest are a combination of Mesopotamian and Levantine people.
Arslanteppe is from Central Turkey, whose closest modern day equivalent are Anatolian Greeks.
Anatolian Greeks are mostly ENF with substantial Caucasian input with some steppe.
Know your facts before you come at me you goof.
Theoo
11-05-2021, 07:14 AM
Arslanteppe is from Central Turkey, whose closest modern day equivalent are Anatolian Greeks.
Anatolian Greeks are mostly ENF with substantial Caucasian input with some steppe.
Know your facts before you come at me you goof.Target: Azerbaijani_Turkey
Distance: 0.9633% / 0.00963264 | R4P
58.8 ARM_Areni_C <<< (Caucasian Armenian)
17.6 Levant_Yehud_IBA
17.6 TKM_Parkhai_MBA
6.0 CHN_Shimao_LN
Azerbaijan_Turkey are the original Armenians
Distance to: TUR_Arslantepe_EBA
0.04114281 Druze
0.04131106 Greek_Cappadocia
0.04171803 Cypriot
0.04183357 Lebanese_Christian
0.04265655 Iraqi_Jew
0.04283248 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.04312949 Lebanese_Druze
0.04412343 Armenian_Erzurum
0.04442962 Armenian
0.04461818 Kurdish_Jew
0.04473532 Turkish_Trabzon
0.04742034 Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
0.04763612 Greek_Trabzon
0.04850542 Assyrian
0.05043222 Georgian_Jew
0.05101287 Karaite_Egypt
0.05279860 Syrian_Jew
0.05364272 Iranian_Jew
0.05378998 Mountain_Jew
0.05393421 Lebanese_Muslim
0.05461077 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.05529743 Samaritan
0.05850294 Greek_Dodecanese
0.06106880 Romaniote_Jew
0.06131047 Greek_Kos
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 07:27 AM
Target: Azerbaijani_Turkey
Distance: 0.9633% / 0.00963264 | R4P
58.8 ARM_Areni_C <<< (Caucasian Armenian)
17.6 Levant_Yehud_IBA
17.6 TKM_Parkhai_MBA
6.0 CHN_Shimao_LN
Azerbaijan_Turkey are the original Armenians
Arslanteppe = Bronze Age Anatolian
Distance to: Armenian_updated
0.02727004 Georgian_Meskh
0.03521764 Georgian_Laz
0.03738258 Georgian_Kart
0.03881311 Georgian_Kakh
0.04880747 Georgian_Ajar
0.05660745 Georgian_Imer
0.05950478 Georgian_Tush
0.06019503 Georgian_Khevs
0.06393286 Georgian_Megr
0.07309952 Georgian_Svan
Distance to: Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.05560576 Georgian_Kart
0.05756089 Georgian_Meskh
0.06070373 Georgian_Tush
0.06103164 Georgian_Kakh
0.06267623 Georgian_Khevs
0.06819027 Georgian_Laz
0.07357076 Georgian_Ajar
0.07747631 Georgian_Imer
0.08048580 Georgian_Megr
0.08144821 Georgian_Svan
Distance to: Azerbaijani
0.05703823 Georgian_Meskh
0.06021034 Georgian_Kart
0.06144287 Georgian_Kakh
0.06318319 Georgian_Tush
0.06399662 Georgian_Khevs
0.07138595 Georgian_Laz
0.07624739 Georgian_Ajar
0.08084945 Georgian_Imer
0.08329872 Georgian_Megr
0.08365557 Georgian_Svan
mIxEd WiTh AzErI(cAuCaSiAn) ;)
Theoo
11-05-2021, 07:39 AM
Arslanteppe = Bronze Age Anatolian= A modern Levantine component
Distance to: Armenian_updated
0.02727004 Georgian_Meskh
0.03521764 Georgian_Laz
0.03738258 Georgian_Kart
0.03881311 Georgian_Kakh
0.04880747 Georgian_Ajar
0.05660745 Georgian_Imer
0.05950478 Georgian_Tush
0.06019503 Georgian_Khevs
0.06393286 Georgian_Megr
0.07309952 Georgian_Svan
Distance to: Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.05560576 Georgian_Kart
0.05756089 Georgian_Meskh
0.06070373 Georgian_Tush
0.06103164 Georgian_Kakh
0.06267623 Georgian_Khevs
0.06819027 Georgian_Laz
0.07357076 Georgian_Ajar
0.07747631 Georgian_Imer
0.08048580 Georgian_Megr
0.08144821 Georgian_Svan
Distance to: Azerbaijani
0.05703823 Georgian_Meskh
0.06021034 Georgian_Kart
0.06144287 Georgian_Kakh
0.06318319 Georgian_Tush
0.06399662 Georgian_Khevs
0.07138595 Georgian_Laz
0.07624739 Georgian_Ajar
0.08084945 Georgian_Imer
0.08329872 Georgian_Megr
0.08365557 Georgian_Svan
mIxEd WiTh AzErI(cAuCaSiAn) ;)
Arslanteppe EBA = Bronze Age Anatolian= Levantine component
Distance to: Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.02760034 Turkish_East
0.02863575 Turkish_Adana
0.02899668 Turkish_Kayseri
0.03117644 Ezid
0.03320897 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.03332685 Turkish_Central
0.03438882 Iranian_Lor
0.03528125 Iranian_Fars
0.03698773 Bukharian_Jew
0.03723580 Kurdish
0.03993357 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.04001577 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.04353148 Udi
0.04799659 Turkish_North
0.04970467 Mountain_Jew
0.05044948 Georgian_Jew
0.05210519 Assyrian
0.05329695 Kumyk
0.05407074 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.05512845 Turkish_South
0.05560576 Georgian_Kart
0.05597921 Iranian_Jew
0.05865392 Kabardin
0.05892850 Ahiska
0.05917517 Turkish_Aydin
Distance to: Armenian_Hemsheni
0.01553481 Georgian_Laz
0.01771818 Greek_Trabzon
0.01961713 Turkish_Trabzon
0.02301645 Georgian_Kakh
0.02554480 Ahiska
0.03004318 Georgian_Ajar
0.03043656 Georgian_Kart
0.03287774 Udi
0.03970180 Assyrian
0.04101423 Georgian_Imer
0.04187899 Georgian_Jew
0.04436531 Turkish_East
0.04629572 Greek_Cappadocia
0.04785937 Georgian_Megr
0.04819141 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.04954807 Mountain_Jew
0.05165614 Abkhasian
0.05376121 Kurdish
0.05497440 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.05525023 Georgian_Khevs
0.05533267 Georgian_Tush
0.05622292 Kurdish_Jew
0.05646825 Iranian_Jew
0.05919514 Ezid
0.05961046 Georgian_Svan
Distance to: Armenian_Erzurum
0.01892830 Assyrian
0.02092297 Georgian_Jew
0.02328436 Turkish_Trabzon
0.02582930 Greek_Trabzon
0.02665051 Mountain_Jew
0.03097234 Greek_Cappadocia
0.03304141 Udi
0.03355511 Iranian_Jew
0.03376619 Kurdish_Jew
0.03653414 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.03876516 Iraqi_Jew
0.03915409 Georgian_Laz
0.04016149 Turkish_East
0.04197259 Georgian_Kakh
0.04327741 Ahiska
0.04414735 Druze
0.04452601 Lebanese_Druze
0.04551790 Georgian_Kart
0.04563882 Bukharian_Jew
0.04630891 Kurdish
0.05077077 Ezid
0.05086475 Cypriot
0.05102212 Lebanese_Muslim
0.05217640 Turkish_Kayseri
0.05230672 Syrian_Jew
Distance to: Armenian
0.01819288 Assyrian
0.02085104 Georgian_Jew
0.02178378 Turkish_Trabzon
0.02383436 Greek_Trabzon
0.02647244 Mountain_Jew
0.03141346 Greek_Cappadocia
0.03177747 Udi
0.03295458 Iranian_Jew
0.03426926 Kurdish_Jew
0.03722534 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.03735829 Georgian_Laz
0.03785597 Turkish_East
0.03829473 Iraqi_Jew
0.04022687 Georgian_Kakh
0.04172057 Ahiska
0.04352010 Georgian_Kart
0.04428048 Kurdish
0.04434485 Bukharian_Jew
0.04482187 Druze
0.04505728 Lebanese_Druze
0.04825761 Ezid
0.05027624 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.05054279 Lebanese_Muslim
0.05085342 Turkish_Kayseri
0.05181980 Cypriot
I use the original g25 coordinates average from vahaduo.blogspot and not some self made coordinates that I made to manipulate and provide some sort of agenda.
we clearly can see that Armenian and Armenian_Erzurum are Jews+ Mesopotamians while Armenian_Hemsheni is Caucasian.
And I dont want to see your manipulated agenda models, unless you use the original vahaduo.blogspot coordinates without editing anything.
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 07:51 AM
Arslanteppe EBA = Bronze Age Anatolian= Levantine component
Distance to: Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.02760034 Turkish_East
0.02863575 Turkish_Adana
0.02899668 Turkish_Kayseri
0.03117644 Ezid
0.03320897 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.03332685 Turkish_Central
0.03438882 Iranian_Lor
0.03528125 Iranian_Fars
0.03698773 Bukharian_Jew
0.03723580 Kurdish
0.03993357 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.04001577 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.04353148 Udi
0.04799659 Turkish_North
0.04970467 Mountain_Jew
0.05044948 Georgian_Jew
0.05210519 Assyrian
0.05329695 Kumyk
0.05407074 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.05512845 Turkish_South
0.05560576 Georgian_Kart
0.05597921 Iranian_Jew
0.05865392 Kabardin
0.05892850 Ahiska
0.05917517 Turkish_Aydin
Distance to: Armenian_Hemsheni
0.01553481 Georgian_Laz
0.01771818 Greek_Trabzon
0.01961713 Turkish_Trabzon
0.02301645 Georgian_Kakh
0.02554480 Ahiska
0.03004318 Georgian_Ajar
0.03043656 Georgian_Kart
0.03287774 Udi
0.03970180 Assyrian
0.04101423 Georgian_Imer
0.04187899 Georgian_Jew
0.04436531 Turkish_East
0.04629572 Greek_Cappadocia
0.04785937 Georgian_Megr
0.04819141 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.04954807 Mountain_Jew
0.05165614 Abkhasian
0.05376121 Kurdish
0.05497440 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.05525023 Georgian_Khevs
0.05533267 Georgian_Tush
0.05622292 Kurdish_Jew
0.05646825 Iranian_Jew
0.05919514 Ezid
0.05961046 Georgian_Svan
Distance to: Armenian_Erzurum
0.01892830 Assyrian
0.02092297 Georgian_Jew
0.02328436 Turkish_Trabzon
0.02582930 Greek_Trabzon
0.02665051 Mountain_Jew
0.03097234 Greek_Cappadocia
0.03304141 Udi
0.03355511 Iranian_Jew
0.03376619 Kurdish_Jew
0.03653414 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.03876516 Iraqi_Jew
0.03915409 Georgian_Laz
0.04016149 Turkish_East
0.04197259 Georgian_Kakh
0.04327741 Ahiska
0.04414735 Druze
0.04452601 Lebanese_Druze
0.04551790 Georgian_Kart
0.04563882 Bukharian_Jew
0.04630891 Kurdish
0.05077077 Ezid
0.05086475 Cypriot
0.05102212 Lebanese_Muslim
0.05217640 Turkish_Kayseri
0.05230672 Syrian_Jew
Distance to: Armenian
0.01819288 Assyrian
0.02085104 Georgian_Jew
0.02178378 Turkish_Trabzon
0.02383436 Greek_Trabzon
0.02647244 Mountain_Jew
0.03141346 Greek_Cappadocia
0.03177747 Udi
0.03295458 Iranian_Jew
0.03426926 Kurdish_Jew
0.03722534 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.03735829 Georgian_Laz
0.03785597 Turkish_East
0.03829473 Iraqi_Jew
0.04022687 Georgian_Kakh
0.04172057 Ahiska
0.04352010 Georgian_Kart
0.04428048 Kurdish
0.04434485 Bukharian_Jew
0.04482187 Druze
0.04505728 Lebanese_Druze
0.04825761 Ezid
0.05027624 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.05054279 Lebanese_Muslim
0.05085342 Turkish_Kayseri
0.05181980 Cypriot
I use the original g25 coordinates average from vahaduo.blogspot and not some self made coordinates that I made to manipulate and provide some sort of agenda.
we clearly can see that Armenia and Armenian_Erzurum are Jews+ Mesopotamians while Armenian_Hemsheni is Caucasian.
And I dont want to see your manipulated agenda models, unless you use the original vahaduo.blotspot coordinates without editing anything.
The Armenian updated average was made by our resident TA user, Mingle so take your bullshit elsewhere. The original G25 coordinates has individuals with mixed ancestry and obvious outliers not only for Armenians, but for various ethnic groups as well and thus have been edited. It's not my fault that the creators of these averages carelessly include mixed individuals and outliers without undertaking proper vetting procedures to make sure what they upload is accurate.
Here is an individual sample of our user Oszkar07's wife, an Armenian woman from Iran, who are descended from Eastern Armenia(the Republic you see today).
Distance to: Oszkar07_Wife_scaled
0.02603820 Greek_Trabzon
0.02696089 Armenian
0.02881897 Turkish_Trabzon
0.03416091 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.03727248 Georgian_Laz
0.03750759 Georgian_Meskh
0.03890355 Georgian_Jew
0.03951544 Greek_Cappadocia
0.03964933 Assyrian
0.03995591 Ahiska
0.04046400 Georgian_Kart
0.04207126 Udi
0.04514245 Georgian_Kakh
0.04792592 Turkish_East
0.04814351 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.04857374 Iranian_Jew
0.05001433 Mountain_Jew
0.05092102 Georgian_Ajar
0.05137926 Iraqi_Jew
0.05292054 Dersim
0.05676855 Georgian_Imer
0.05773230 Kurdish
0.05816334 Druze
0.05835054 Lebanese_Druze
0.05848555 Azerbaijani_Turkey
Is she a "manipulated agenda model" too? She is descended from indigenous Armenians from modern-day Armenia- which begs the question: why are you using Hamshentsi or Erzurumtsi in this case? They're not from the modern-day republic nor are their roots from there. jEwS+mEsOpOtAmIaNs
Theoo
11-05-2021, 08:03 AM
The Armenian updated average was made by our resident TA user, Mingle so take your bullshit elsewhere. The original G25 coordinates has individuals with mixed ancestry and obvious outliers not only for Armenians, but for various ethnic groups as well and thus have been edited. It's not my fault that the creators of these averages carelessly include mixed individuals and outliers without undertaking proper vetting procedures to make sure what they upload is accurate.
Here is an individual sample of our user Oszkar07's wife, an Armenian woman from Iran, who are descended from Eastern Armenia(the Republic you see today).
Distance to: Oszkar07_Wife_scaled
0.02603820 Greek_Trabzon
0.02696089 Armenian
0.02881897 Turkish_Trabzon
0.03416091 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.03727248 Georgian_Laz
0.03750759 Georgian_Meskh
0.03890355 Georgian_Jew
0.03951544 Greek_Cappadocia
0.03964933 Assyrian
0.03995591 Ahiska
0.04046400 Georgian_Kart
0.04207126 Udi
0.04514245 Georgian_Kakh
0.04792592 Turkish_East
0.04814351 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.04857374 Iranian_Jew
0.05001433 Mountain_Jew
0.05092102 Georgian_Ajar
0.05137926 Iraqi_Jew
0.05292054 Dersim
0.05676855 Georgian_Imer
0.05773230 Kurdish
0.05816334 Druze
0.05835054 Lebanese_Druze
0.05848555 Azerbaijani_Turkey
Is she a "manipulated agenda model" too? She is descended from indigenous Armenians from modern-day Armenia- which begs the question: why are you using Hamshentsi or Erzurumtsi in this case? They're not from the modern-day republic nor are their roots from there.
OFC not.
But these results are being manipulated\edited
Distance to: Armenian_updated
0.02727004 Georgian_Meskh
0.03521764 Georgian_Laz
0.03738258 Georgian_Kart
0.03881311 Georgian_Kakh
0.04880747 Georgian_Ajar
0.05660745 Georgian_Imer
0.05950478 Georgian_Tush
0.06019503 Georgian_Khevs
0.06393286 Georgian_Megr
0.07309952 Georgian_Svan
Distance to: Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.05560576 Georgian_Kart
0.05756089 Georgian_Meskh
0.06070373 Georgian_Tush
0.06103164 Georgian_Kakh
0.06267623 Georgian_Khevs
0.06819027 Georgian_Laz
0.07357076 Georgian_Ajar
0.07747631 Georgian_Imer
0.08048580 Georgian_Megr
0.08144821 Georgian_Svan
Distance to: Azerbaijani
0.05703823 Georgian_Meskh
0.06021034 Georgian_Kart
0.06144287 Georgian_Kakh
0.06318319 Georgian_Tush
0.06399662 Georgian_Khevs
0.07138595 Georgian_Laz
0.07624739 Georgian_Ajar
0.08084945 Georgian_Imer
0.08329872 Georgian_Megr
0.08365557 Georgian_Svan
If you to prove something then run them on the original average sheet from vahaduo.blogspot
And where is the Armenian and Armenian_Erzurum did you really delete/removed them because they are plotting with Jews and Mesopotamians and that is against your agenda?
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 08:15 AM
OFC not.
But these results are being manipulated\edited
Distance to: Armenian_updated
0.02727004 Georgian_Meskh
0.03521764 Georgian_Laz
0.03738258 Georgian_Kart
0.03881311 Georgian_Kakh
0.04880747 Georgian_Ajar
0.05660745 Georgian_Imer
0.05950478 Georgian_Tush
0.06019503 Georgian_Khevs
0.06393286 Georgian_Megr
0.07309952 Georgian_Svan
Distance to: Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.05560576 Georgian_Kart
0.05756089 Georgian_Meskh
0.06070373 Georgian_Tush
0.06103164 Georgian_Kakh
0.06267623 Georgian_Khevs
0.06819027 Georgian_Laz
0.07357076 Georgian_Ajar
0.07747631 Georgian_Imer
0.08048580 Georgian_Megr
0.08144821 Georgian_Svan
Distance to: Azerbaijani
0.05703823 Georgian_Meskh
0.06021034 Georgian_Kart
0.06144287 Georgian_Kakh
0.06318319 Georgian_Tush
0.06399662 Georgian_Khevs
0.07138595 Georgian_Laz
0.07624739 Georgian_Ajar
0.08084945 Georgian_Imer
0.08329872 Georgian_Megr
0.08365557 Georgian_Svan
If you to prove something then run them on the original average sheet from vahaduo.blogspot
They're not manipulated. The Armenian standard average includes either very mixed individuals or complete outliers that doesn't coincide with some of the individual kits that I have in my possession. I have an Armenian individual from Sisian, from modern day Armenia, who scores similarly to Oszkar07's wife. FROM MODERN-DAY ARMENIA. It's pretty obvious to me that these intra-Armenian genetic disparities are not captured properly on G25.
The truth is, much like Georgians were until recently, Armenians do not have enough regional representation on these "standard" averages.
Btw, the Azeri averages are not manipulated. It simply reflects the reality that they aren't Caucasian at all but a predominantly Iranic ethnicity with some Turkic input.
Armenians in comparison, are much closer to Georgians as a whole and thus genetically more Caucasian, and more native to the region. And I'm not even comparing Hamshenahay so you can imagine how un-Caucasian Azerbaijanis are lol.
Oh, btw, the Assyrian average has at least 2 individuals mixed with an Armenian, and one with an Iranic individual(likely a Kurd). If you remove those obvious outliers, you will see that they're more distant to Armenians, especially Eastern Armenians than you would've liked.
Theoo
11-05-2021, 08:23 AM
They're not manipulated. The Armenian standard average includes either very mixed individuals or complete outliers that doesn't coincide with some of the individual kits that I have in my possession. I have an Armenian individual from Sisian, from modern day Armenia, who scores similarly to Oszkar07's wife. FROM MODERN-DAY ARMENIA. It's pretty obvious to me that these intra-Armenian genetic disparities are not captured properly on G25.
The truth is, much like Georgians were until recently, Armenians do not have enough regional representation on these "standard" averages.
Btw, the Azeri averages are not manipulated. It simply reflects the reality that they aren't Caucasian at all but a predominantly Iranic ethnicity with some Turkic input.
Armenians in comparison, are much closer to Georgians as a whole and thus genetically more Caucasian, and more native to the region. And I'm not even comparing Hamshenahay so you can imagine how un-Caucasian Azerbaijanis are lol.
Oh, btw, the Assyrian average has at least 2 individuals mixed with an Armenian, and one with an Iranic individual(likely a Kurd). If you remove those obvious outliers, you will see that they're more distant to Armenians, especially Eastern Armenians than you would've liked.
Modern"Armenians" are descendants of Mesopotamians+Black Sea Greeks and Jews, ancient DNA shows and confirms that the original "Armenians" are Azeris from Dagestan*
Theoo
11-05-2021, 08:37 AM
Distance to: Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.03360038 ARM_Lchashen_MBA
0.03656096 ARM_LBA
0.03678070 ARM_MBA
0.03700170 RUS_Alan_MA
0.03871326 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
0.04254455 UZB_Sappali_Tepe_BA_o
0.04920817 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
0.05052684 UZB_Dzharkutan2_BA
0.05092282 ARM_Areni_C
0.05242941 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA_o2
0.05261056 RUS_Maykop
0.05647602 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
0.05682886 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kalavan
0.05869604 RUS_Maykop_Late
0.06212691 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA_o1
0.06261639 MNG_TUK001
0.06297008 Kura-Araxes_RUS_Velikent
0.06373423 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Talin
0.06403161 TUR_IA
0.06698584 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
0.06702408 Ostrogothic_Crimea_ACD
0.06846128 TJK_Ksirov_H_Kushan
0.07068927 RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya
0.07775873 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C
0.08197120 RUS_North_Caucasus_MBA
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 08:38 AM
Modern"Armenians" are descendants of Mesopotamians+Black Sea Greeks and Jews, ancient DNA shows and confirms that the original "Armenians" are Azeris from Dagestan*
Distance to: Armenian_updated
0.04308603 ARM_Areni_C
Distance to: Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.04865492 ARM_Areni_C
Distance to: Azerbaijani
0.05842898 ARM_Areni_C
oRiGiNaL aRmEnIaNs ArE aZeRiS. turkey has had a massive jewish population so maybe turks have jew/mesopotamian input? lool
Theoo
11-05-2021, 08:39 AM
Distance to: Armenian_updated
0.04308603 ARM_Areni_C
Distance to: Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.04865492 ARM_Areni_C
Distance to: Azerbaijani
0.05842898 ARM_Areni_C
oRiGiNaL aRmEnIaNs ArE aZeRiS. turkey has had a massive jewish population so maybe turks have jew/mesopotamian input? lool
Distance to: ARM_Areni_C
0.03778745 Udi
0.04044753 Turkish_East
0.04750433 Greek_Cappadocia
0.04793450 Turkish_Kayseri
0.04865492 Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.04920759 Armenian
0.04968595 Armenian_Erzurum
0.05002299 Georgian_Kart
0.05029180 Turkish_Adana
0.05080592 Ezid
0.05092282 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.05132546 Turkish_Trabzon
0.05142037 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.05158577 Georgian_Tush
0.05178919 Ahiska
0.05255661 Greek_Trabzon
0.05373245 Georgian_Jew
0.05417306 Kurdish
0.05422655 Mountain_Jew
0.05440314 Georgian_Khevs
0.05575801 Georgian_Kakh
0.05582424 Assyrian
0.05628622 Bukharian_Jew
0.05636612 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.05670989 Talysh_Azerbaijan
to make you feel better you can rename the "Udi" to "Armenian_updated"
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 08:46 AM
Distance to: ARM_Areni_C
0.03778745 Udi
0.04044753 Turkish_East
0.04750433 Greek_Cappadocia
0.04793450 Turkish_Kayseri
0.04865492 Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.04920759 Armenian
0.04968595 Armenian_Erzurum
0.05002299 Georgian_Kart
0.05029180 Turkish_Adana
0.05080592 Ezid
0.05092282 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.05132546 Turkish_Trabzon
0.05142037 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.05158577 Georgian_Tush
0.05178919 Ahiska
0.05255661 Greek_Trabzon
0.05373245 Georgian_Jew
0.05417306 Kurdish
0.05422655 Mountain_Jew
0.05440314 Georgian_Khevs
0.05575801 Georgian_Kakh
0.05582424 Assyrian
0.05628622 Bukharian_Jew
0.05636612 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.05670989 Talysh_Azerbaijan
I already explained it to you but you don't want to understand. In case you haven't figured it out by now- the "standard" average on Vahaduo is flawed and obviously has individuals who are either mixed, or from different regions. The updated one is more accurate. But you just don't want to admit it.
Distance to: ARM_Areni_C
0.04044753 Turkish_East
0.04308603 Armenian_updated
0.04793450 Turkish_Kayseri
0.04865492 Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.05029180 Turkish_Adana
0.05132546 Turkish_Trabzon
0.05675929 Turkish_Central
0.05842898 Azerbaijani
0.07218269 Turkish_North
0.08110662 Turkish_Rumeli
0.08215477 Turkish_Aydin
0.08291453 Turkish_Balikesir
0.08367207 Turkish_Deliorman
0.08469203 Turkish_South
0.08483958 Turkish_Northwest
0.08525076 Turkish_Southwest
Notice how even some other Turkish subgroups are also closer to Areni than Azerbaijanis are? Also, Azerbaijani_Turkey has obviously assimilated Armenians in case you still haven't figure it out again. But I'm not betting on it anyway :)
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 08:49 AM
Distance to: ARM_Areni_C
0.03778745 Udi
0.04044753 Turkish_East
0.04750433 Greek_Cappadocia
0.04793450 Turkish_Kayseri
0.04865492 Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.04920759 Armenian
0.04968595 Armenian_Erzurum
0.05002299 Georgian_Kart
0.05029180 Turkish_Adana
0.05080592 Ezid
0.05092282 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.05132546 Turkish_Trabzon
0.05142037 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.05158577 Georgian_Tush
0.05178919 Ahiska
0.05255661 Greek_Trabzon
0.05373245 Georgian_Jew
0.05417306 Kurdish
0.05422655 Mountain_Jew
0.05440314 Georgian_Khevs
0.05575801 Georgian_Kakh
0.05582424 Assyrian
0.05628622 Bukharian_Jew
0.05636612 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.05670989 Talysh_Azerbaijan
to make you feel better you can rename the "Udi" to "Armenian_updated"
Udi are not Armenian, but they're closer to Armenians than to Azeris or Turks ;)
Theoo
11-05-2021, 08:50 AM
No problem for private use but it is a mistake to use your "friend" average and include all Armenians in it, share your average and the individuals coordinates that its made from.
you keep ignore Armenian and Armenian_Erzurum maybe because they are plotting with Jews and Mesopotamians and that is against your agenda?
Theoo
11-05-2021, 08:53 AM
Udi are not Armenian, but they're closer to Armenians than to Azeris or Turks ;)
Mesoptamians and Jews are closer to Armenian and Armenian_Erzurum ;)
Distance to: Armenian_Erzurum
0.01892830 Assyrian
0.02092297 Georgian_Jew
0.02328436 Turkish_Trabzon
0.02582930 Greek_Trabzon
0.02665051 Mountain_Jew
0.02928333 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.03097234 Greek_Cappadocia
0.03304141 Udi
0.03355511 Iranian_Jew
0.03376619 Kurdish_Jew
0.03653414 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.03876516 Iraqi_Jew
0.03915409 Georgian_Laz
0.04016149 Turkish_East
0.04197259 Georgian_Kakh
0.04327741 Ahiska
0.04414735 Druze
0.04452601 Lebanese_Druze
0.04551790 Georgian_Kart
0.04563882 Bukharian_Jew
0.04630891 Kurdish
0.05077077 Ezid
0.05086475 Cypriot
0.05102212 Lebanese_Muslim
0.05217640 Turkish_Kayseri
Distance to: Armenian
0.01819288 Assyrian
0.02085104 Georgian_Jew
0.02178378 Turkish_Trabzon
0.02383436 Greek_Trabzon
0.02647244 Mountain_Jew
0.02678610 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.03141346 Greek_Cappadocia
0.03177747 Udi
0.03295458 Iranian_Jew
0.03426926 Kurdish_Jew
0.03722534 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.03735829 Georgian_Laz
0.03785597 Turkish_East
0.03829473 Iraqi_Jew
0.04022687 Georgian_Kakh
0.04172057 Ahiska
0.04352010 Georgian_Kart
0.04428048 Kurdish
0.04434485 Bukharian_Jew
0.04482187 Druze
0.04505728 Lebanese_Druze
0.04825761 Ezid
0.05027624 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.05054279 Lebanese_Muslim
0.05085342 Turkish_Kayseri
you keep ignore Armenian and Armenian_Erzurum maybe because they are plotting with Jews and Mesopotamians and that is against your agenda?
Udis are closer to Turkish East and after the to the Armenians who plotting with Mesopotamian and Jews and not to your "Armenian_updated" self made average which is OK for personal private use but its not ok to include all Armenians in it when you wont even share the coordinates+individual coordinates which its made from
Distance to: Udi
0.02393166 Turkish_East
0.02754047 Georgian_Kakh
0.03013346 Kurdish
0.03093935 Georgian_Kart
0.03177747 Armenian >>> plotting with Mesopotamians and Jews
0.03201548 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.03243741 Ahiska
0.03287774 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.03304141 Armenian_Erzurum
0.03388425 Ezid
0.03613521 Georgian_Jew
0.03651979 Assyrian
0.03677126 Turkish_Trabzon
0.03771644 Greek_Trabzon
0.03845610 Georgian_Laz
0.03983127 Bukharian_Jew
0.04074176 Georgian_Khevs
0.04130358 Georgian_Tush
0.04190495 Mountain_Jew
0.04282800 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.04298193 Iranian_Lor
0.04353148 Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.04463588 Azerbaijani
0.04474739 Turkish_Kayseri
0.04487524 Iranian_Zoroastrian
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 09:07 AM
No problem for private use but it is a mistake to use your "friend" average and include all Armenians in it, share your average and the individuals coordinates that its made from.
you keep ignore Armenian and Armenian_Erzurum maybe because they are plotting with Jews and Mesopotamians and that is against your agenda?
Using an Erzurum or Hamshentsi average and pretending that they're the standard and include all Armenians is not a "mistake" though, is it? Well I mean it's only right when you're pushing YOUR agenda - which is obviously to discredit Armenian presence in the republic.
I'll tell you what- I'll use the Turkish Trabzon reference as the standard for all Turks so I can discredit their population presence in Anatolia and the Balkans. Sounds fair? lol gtfo of here kid. You're still sour that you've been proven wrong so you have to cling on averages with obvious flaws to push your moot point.
The mere fact that you believe that ancient Armenians left more of a genetic trace in modern-day Azeris than Armenians makes me think you're an absolute moron. This is why you should probably think twice about using amateur admix tools in a futile attempt to capture your fantasies.
BTW, here is a model using qpAdm to model Armenians.
Armenian.DG
Kura_Araxes_ARM_Kaps. 14.8%
ARM_LBA 63.8%
TUR_Arslantepe_EBA. 21.4%
tail: 0.112209
chisq: 16.856
Not the best, but that's because we need an ancient sample from Western Armenia. Once they find a few, the Arslantepe will decrease significantly.
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 09:11 AM
Mesoptamians and Jews are closer to Armenian and Armenian_Erzurum ;)
Distance to: Armenian_Erzurum
0.01892830 Assyrian
0.02092297 Georgian_Jew
0.02328436 Turkish_Trabzon
0.02582930 Greek_Trabzon
0.02665051 Mountain_Jew
0.02928333 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.03097234 Greek_Cappadocia
0.03304141 Udi
0.03355511 Iranian_Jew
0.03376619 Kurdish_Jew
0.03653414 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.03876516 Iraqi_Jew
0.03915409 Georgian_Laz
0.04016149 Turkish_East
0.04197259 Georgian_Kakh
0.04327741 Ahiska
0.04414735 Druze
0.04452601 Lebanese_Druze
0.04551790 Georgian_Kart
0.04563882 Bukharian_Jew
0.04630891 Kurdish
0.05077077 Ezid
0.05086475 Cypriot
0.05102212 Lebanese_Muslim
0.05217640 Turkish_Kayseri
Distance to: Armenian
0.01819288 Assyrian
0.02085104 Georgian_Jew
0.02178378 Turkish_Trabzon
0.02383436 Greek_Trabzon
0.02647244 Mountain_Jew
0.02678610 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.03141346 Greek_Cappadocia
0.03177747 Udi
0.03295458 Iranian_Jew
0.03426926 Kurdish_Jew
0.03722534 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.03735829 Georgian_Laz
0.03785597 Turkish_East
0.03829473 Iraqi_Jew
0.04022687 Georgian_Kakh
0.04172057 Ahiska
0.04352010 Georgian_Kart
0.04428048 Kurdish
0.04434485 Bukharian_Jew
0.04482187 Druze
0.04505728 Lebanese_Druze
0.04825761 Ezid
0.05027624 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.05054279 Lebanese_Muslim
0.05085342 Turkish_Kayseri
you keep ignore Armenian and Armenian_Erzurum maybe because they are plotting with Jews and Mesopotamians and that is against your agenda?
Udis are closer to Turkish East and after the to the Armenians who plotting with Mesopotamian and Jews and not to your "Armenian_updated" self made average which is OK for personal private use but its not ok to include all Armenians in it when you wont even share the coordinates+individual coordinates which its made from
Distance to: Udi
0.02393166 Turkish_East
0.02754047 Georgian_Kakh
0.03013346 Kurdish
0.03093935 Georgian_Kart
0.03177747 Armenian >>> plotting with Mesopotamians and Jews
0.03201548 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.03243741 Ahiska
0.03287774 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.03304141 Armenian_Erzurum
0.03388425 Ezid
0.03613521 Georgian_Jew
0.03651979 Assyrian
0.03677126 Turkish_Trabzon
0.03771644 Greek_Trabzon
0.03845610 Georgian_Laz
0.03983127 Bukharian_Jew
0.04074176 Georgian_Khevs
0.04130358 Georgian_Tush
0.04190495 Mountain_Jew
0.04282800 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.04298193 Iranian_Lor
0.04353148 Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.04463588 Azerbaijani
0.04474739 Turkish_Kayseri
0.04487524 Iranian_Zoroastrian
Even those shitty averages are roughly equidistant between Trabzon and Assyrian. They're closer to Trabzon, Udi, Cap Greeks and the obvious Georgian subgroups which you so conveniently excluded than to Jews. But go ahead and keep up your dishonesty :)
Theoo
11-05-2021, 09:18 AM
Using an Erzurum or Hamshentsi average and pretending that they're the standard and include all Armenians is not a "mistake" though, is it? Well I mean it's only right when you're pushing YOUR agenda - which is obviously to discredit Armenian presence in the republic.
I'll tell you what- I'll use the Turkish Trabzon reference as the standard for all Turks so I can discredit their population presence in Anatolia and the Balkans. Sounds fair? lol gtfo of here kid. You're still sour that you've been proven wrong so you have to cling on averages with obvious flaws to push your moot point.
The mere fact that you believe that ancient Armenians left more of a genetic trace in modern-day Azeris than Armenians makes me think you're an absolute moron. This is why you should probably think twice about using amateur admix tools in a futile attempt to capture your fantasies.
BTW, here is a model using qpAdm to model Armenians.
Armenian.DG
Kura_Araxes_ARM_Kaps. 14.8%
ARM_LBA 63.8%
TUR_Arslantepe_EBA. 21.4%
tail: 0.112209
chisq: 16.856
Not the best, but that's because we need an ancient sample from Western Armenia. Once they find a few, the Arslantepe will decrease significantly.
We have seen that Azeri_Dagestan are closer to ancient Armenians
And all your explanations are worth nothing.
To make you feel good I changed the name from Azerbaijani_Degstan to
Distance to:FinalFlashian Originalian Armenian_Averageian
0.03360038 ARM_Lchashen_MBA
0.03656096 ARM_LBA
0.03678070 ARM_MBA
0.03700170 RUS_Alan_MA
0.03871326 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
0.04254455 UZB_Sappali_Tepe_BA_o
0.04920817 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
0.05052684 UZB_Dzharkutan2_BA
0.05092282 ARM_Areni_C
0.05242941 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA_o2
0.05261056 RUS_Maykop
0.05647602 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
0.05682886 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kalavan
0.05869604 RUS_Maykop_Late
0.06212691 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA_o1
0.06261639 MNG_TUK001
0.06297008 Kura-Araxes_RUS_Velikent
0.06373423 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Talin
0.06403161 TUR_IA
0.06698584 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
0.06702408 Ostrogothic_Crimea_ACD
0.06846128 TJK_Ksirov_H_Kushan
0.07068927 RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya
0.07775873 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C
0.08197120 RUS_North_Caucasus_MBA
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 09:28 AM
We have seen that Azeri_Dagestan are closer to ancient Armenians
And all your explanations are worth nothing.
To make you feel good I changed the name from Azerbaijani_Degstan to
Distance to:FinalFlashian Originalian Armenian_Averageian
0.03360038 ARM_Lchashen_MBA
0.03656096 ARM_LBA
0.03678070 ARM_MBA
0.03700170 RUS_Alan_MA
0.03871326 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_Historic
0.04254455 UZB_Sappali_Tepe_BA_o
0.04920817 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA
0.05052684 UZB_Dzharkutan2_BA
0.05092282 ARM_Areni_C
0.05242941 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA_o2
0.05261056 RUS_Maykop
0.05647602 IRN_Hasanlu_IA
0.05682886 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kalavan
0.05869604 RUS_Maykop_Late
0.06212691 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA_o1
0.06261639 MNG_TUK001
0.06297008 Kura-Araxes_RUS_Velikent
0.06373423 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Talin
0.06403161 TUR_IA
0.06698584 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
0.06702408 Ostrogothic_Crimea_ACD
0.06846128 TJK_Ksirov_H_Kushan
0.07068927 RUS_Maykop_Novosvobodnaya
0.07775873 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C
0.08197120 RUS_North_Caucasus_MBA
Closer doesn't mean anything in this case. We both know that "Azeri Dagestan" are Azeri/Lezgin hybrids. They don't descend from ancient Armenians nor did ancient Armenians have any direct genetic impact on "azeridagestan".
Your pea brain still can't seem to grasp the fact that circumstantial "closeness" and direct genetic impact are two very different things.
For example, Mortimer is a Serbian Gypsy that is closest to Greek_Thessaly on his Gedmatch oracle. He is neither Greek nor from Thessaly but a recombination of various generic components plots him as such. The same applies to a lot of Latinos that cluster relatively close to central Asians and even Caucasians.
Btw, I love how you now try and stick Lezgin/Azeri hybrids after your pathetic attempt at aZeRiS wUz ArMeNiAn flopped so hard. Keep going further and I'm sure you'll soon bring in Russians and Yakuts into the conversation lol.
Theoo
11-05-2021, 09:31 AM
Closer doesn't mean anything in this case. We both know that "Azeri Dagestan" are Azeri/Lezgin hybrids. They don't descend from ancient Armenians nor did ancient Armenians have any direct genetic impact on "azeridagestan".
Your pea brain still can't seem to grasp the fact that circumstantial "closeness" and direct genetic impact are two very different things.
For example, Mortimer is a Serbian Gypsy that is closest to Greek_Thessaly on his Gedmatch oracle. He is neither Greek nor from Thessaly but a recombination of various generic components plots him as such. The same applies to a lot of Latinos that cluster relatively close to central Asians and even Caucasians.
Btw, I love how you now try and stick Lezgin/Azeri hybrids after your pathetic attempt at aZeRiS wUz ArMeNiAn flopped so hard. Keep going further and I'm sure you'll soon bring in Russians and Yakuts into the conversation lol.
Armenian and Armenian_Erzurum are descendants of Mesopotamians+Black Sea Greeks and Jews, ancient DNA shows and confirms that the original "Armenians" are Azeris from Dagestan.
FinalFlash
11-05-2021, 09:35 AM
Armenian and Armenian_Erzurum are descendants of Mesopotamians+Black Sea Greeks and Jews, ancient DNA shows and confirms that the original "Armenians" are Azeris from Dagestan.
So you're just going to go full-on stupid now, eh? First it was aZeRiS from turkey. Now it's Dagestan. Lol
Theoo
11-05-2021, 09:40 AM
So you're just going to go full-on stupid now, eh? First it was aZeRiS from turkey. Now it's Dagestan. Lol
I confused their names
this is from the first post
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=110721&d=1636005611
Theoo
11-08-2021, 02:47 PM
Modern Armenians= Mesopotamia+ Jew
Distance to: Armenian_Erzurum
0.01892830 Assyrian
0.02092297 Georgian_Jew
0.02328436 Turkish_Trabzon
0.02582930 Greek_Trabzon
0.02665051 Mountain_Jew
0.02928333 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.03097234 Greek_Cappadocia
0.03304141 Udi
0.03355511 Iranian_Jew
0.03376619 Kurdish_Jew
0.03653414 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.03876516 Iraqi_Jew
0.03915409 Georgian_Laz
0.04016149 Turkish_East
0.04197259 Georgian_Kakh
0.04327741 Ahiska
0.04414735 Druze
0.04452601 Lebanese_Druze
0.04551790 Georgian_Kart
0.04563882 Bukharian_Jew
0.04630891 Kurdish
0.05077077 Ezid
0.05086475 Cypriot
0.05102212 Lebanese_Muslim
0.05217640 Turkish_Kayseri
Distance to: Armenian
0.01819288 Assyrian
0.02085104 Georgian_Jew
0.02178378 Turkish_Trabzon
0.02383436 Greek_Trabzon
0.02647244 Mountain_Jew
0.02678610 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.03141346 Greek_Cappadocia
0.03177747 Udi
0.03295458 Iranian_Jew
0.03426926 Kurdish_Jew
0.03722534 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.03735829 Georgian_Laz
0.03785597 Turkish_East
0.03829473 Iraqi_Jew
0.04022687 Georgian_Kakh
0.04172057 Ahiska
0.04352010 Georgian_Kart
0.04428048 Kurdish
0.04434485 Bukharian_Jew
0.04482187 Druze
0.04505728 Lebanese_Druze
0.04825761 Ezid
0.05027624 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.05054279 Lebanese_Muslim
0.05085342 Turkish_Kayseri
The Armenian updated average was made by our resident TA user, Mingle so take your bullshit elsewhere. The original G25 coordinates has individuals with mixed ancestry and obvious outliers not only for Armenians, but for various ethnic groups as well and thus have been edited. It's not my fault that the creators of these averages carelessly include mixed individuals and outliers without undertaking proper vetting procedures to make sure what they upload is accurate.
Can you or Mingle tell us which individuals have been removed and why?
Using an Erzurum or Hamshentsi average and pretending that they're the standard and include all Armenians is not a "mistake" though, is it? Well I mean it's only right when you're pushing YOUR agenda - which is obviously to discredit Armenian presence in the republic.
I'll tell you what- I'll use the Turkish Trabzon reference as the standard for all Turks so I can discredit their population presence in Anatolia and the Balkans. Sounds fair? lol gtfo of here kid. You're still sour that you've been proven wrong so you have to cling on averages with obvious flaws to push your moot point.
The mere fact that you believe that ancient Armenians left more of a genetic trace in modern-day Azeris than Armenians makes me think you're an absolute moron. This is why you should probably think twice about using amateur admix tools in a futile attempt to capture your fantasies.
BTW, here is a model using qpAdm to model Armenians.
Armenian.DG
Kura_Araxes_ARM_Kaps. 14.8%
ARM_LBA 63.8%
TUR_Arslantepe_EBA. 21.4%
tail: 0.112209
chisq: 16.856
Not the best, but that's because we need an ancient sample from Western Armenia. Once they find a few, the Arslantepe will decrease significantly.
So, you expect ancient Western Armenians to be fairly Levantine-like? Please expand on that. Or do you think the reverse - that modern Levantines are fairly ancient Western Armenian-like?
FinalFlash
11-09-2021, 03:31 AM
So, you expect ancient Western Armenians to be fairly Levantine-like? Please expand on that. Or do you think the reverse - that modern Levantines are fairly ancient Western Armenian-like?
Are you insinuating that the ancient W. Armenians were Levantine-like?
Babak
11-09-2021, 04:07 AM
Armenians can be reliably modeled as ~85% E. Anatolian-S. Caucasian ChL-EBA and ~11% EMBA steppe.
"sample": "Armenian:Average",
"distance": 1.6626,
"Caucasus_lowlands_LN": 67.5,
"Titris_Hoyuk_EBA": 18,
"RUS_Catacomb": 10.5,
"Levant_JOR_EBA": 4
Are you insinuating that the ancient W. Armenians were Levantine-like?
In order for it to replace that source, it has to be similar.
FinalFlash
11-09-2021, 05:30 AM
In order for it to replace that source, it has to be similar.
Not ruling it out. They could've also been more Cappadocian-like. It could also be a bit of a surprise as well. We won't know till they extract more bones from the region.
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