Do Albanians have Slavic ancestry? If yes, than how much?

[Roy]

I think they do as it is common for diffusion to occur even between groups speaking in very different languages, but it is clearly not much. I remember reading that it is around 10%, but how correct is that? The Slavic people with which they were in touch themselves are genetically only partially Slavs for a thousand years or more.

[Hulu]

Nope, no slav

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?350880-Eurogenes-K13-model-for-Balkanites&p=7274461&viewfull=1#post7274461

[Arūnas]

and that's all? :(

[TheMaestro]

Most of genetic tests Albanians take, they score almost none Slavic, which is surprising to their geopolitical situation.
Marrying with other ethnics is in Albanian culture pretty rare.

[El_Jibaro]

Albanians as a whole are the least Slavic admixed people in the Balkans iirc.

[Roy]

Most of genetic tests Albanians take, they score almost none Slavic, which is surprising to their geopolitical situation.
Marrying with other ethnics is in Albanian culture pretty rare.

So pretty much like Ashkenazi Jews then. Interesting. The core Albanian lands though have been very homogeneous though ethnically speaking.

[JohnnyP]

Yeah , they are have "slavic" like rest of the Balkans , 20-30%.

[lacreme]

Yeah , they are have "slavic" like rest of the Balkans , 20-30%.

This, they cluster with/are near to Northern Greeks after all and just like them they also have some outliers? clustering with regular Bulgarians and Romanians

[TheMaestro]

This, they cluster with/are near to Northern Greeks after all and just like them they also have some outliers? clustering with regular Bulgarians and Romanians

They cluster close to Southern Slavs, but not because their slavic admixture but because of Southern Slav having Paleo-Balkan admixture....

[Arūnas]

all this after ancient Crna Gora collapse

https://a.uguu.se/tDPcWDoi.png

[Roy]

They cluster close to Southern Slavs, but not because their slavic admixture but because of Southern Slav having Paleo-Balkan admixture....

This is something that I'm well aware of. Some Serbs though get offended when they're compared with Albanians.

[reboun]

They cluster close to Southern Slavs, but not because their slavic admixture but because of Southern Slav having Paleo-Balkan admixture....

So it means Albanians are also in Paleo facade? How cool :D

[Lucas]

.

They were endogamic simply, clan mentality etc. Also very different language from Slavic, later also Muslim religion (although not for all of course).

[Axrael]

They were endogamic simply, clan mentality etc. Also very different language from Slavic, later also Muslim religion (although not for all of course).

You both pick up fights and pretend to be tough, who is that different?

[Lucas]

You both pick up fights and pretend to be tough, who is that different?

I don't understand nothing what you wrote.

[TheMaestro]

So it means Albanians are also in Paleo facade? How cool :D

Obviously?

[Axrael]

I don't understand nothing what you wrote.

Then you literally understand something. If you can't read it's literally not my problem, cmon now that you "can't understand", don't do the Chinese.

[reboun]

Obviously?

Yes.

[Varda]

This is something that I'm well aware of. Some Serbs though get offended when they're compared with Albanians.

Serbs don't cluster with Albanians, they are quite distant from Albos.

https://forum.krstarica.com/attachments/skxga3p-png.790396/


Macedonians are South Slavs who are genetically the closest to Albanians, if we don't count Torbeshi (small group of Macedonian speaking Muslims).

https://forum.krstarica.com/attachments/9gn5zcv-png.790377/

[JohnnyP]

Serbs don't cluster with Albanians, they are quite distant from Albos.

https://forum.krstarica.com/attachments/skxga3p-png.790396/


Macedonians are South Slavs who are genetically the closest to Albanians, if we don't count Torbeshi (small group of Macedonian speaking Muslims).

https://forum.krstarica.com/attachments/9gn5zcv-png.790377/

Regional latest averages ;


<tbody>
Distance to:
Macedonian-Central


3.18877720
Albanian_Gheg


3.41024926
Vlach(Aromanian)_average


4.17655360
Albanian


4.28755175
Torbesh_average


5.05515578
Bulgaria_Northeastern


5.08866387
Bulgaria_Southeastern


5.27933708
Bulgaria_Southcentral


5.42718389
Greek_Thessaly


5.66788320
Bulgaria_Southwestern


5.67257437
Bulgaria_average

</tbody>



<tbody>
Distance to:
Macedonian-South


1.74358825
Vlach(Aromanian)_average


2.35843168
Albanian_Gheg


2.96265084
Albanian


3.29205103
Torbesh_average


3.76037565
Greek_Thessaly


4.37085804
Greek_Central_Macedonia


4.70540115
Greek_Northeast


4.71440346
Albanian_Tosk


4.76281429
Bulgaria_Southeastern


5.11228912
Greek_Northern-Thrace

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Macedonian-East


4.47106251
Bosniak_Sandzak


5.21787313
Bulgaria_Southwestern


5.37481162
Romania_Oltenia


5.37778765
Serb_Southern_Montenegro


5.78668299
Romania_Wallachia


5.79373800
Romania_Muntenia


5.88960101
Bulgaria_average


5.96203824
Bulgaria_Northeastern


6.07648747
Vlach(Aromanian)_average


6.08314886
Bulgaria_Southcentral

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
Macedonian-North


2.66700206
Bulgaria_Southcentral


3.06444122
Bulgaria_average


3.27158983
Vlach(Aromanian)_average


3.34562401
Bulgaria_Southwestern


3.46287453
Bulgaria_Northeastern


3.55463078
Bulgaria_Northcentral


3.75904243
Romania_Muntenia


3.92192555
Romania_Wallachia


4.03093041
Bosniak_Sandzak


4.07747471
Bulgaria_Southeastern

</tbody>

[vbnetkhio]

I think they do as it is common for diffusion to occur even between groups speaking in very different languages, but it is clearly not much. I remember reading that it is around 10%, but how correct is that? The Slavic people with which they were in touch themselves are genetically only partially Slavs for a thousand years or more.

yes, 20-30%, but most of that is probably from the early medieval period, and not mixing with their neighbours.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Lots of misinformation in this thread. Albanians definitely have significant Slavic admixture, up to 25-30%+, and this is North-East Slavic like admixture, not Balkan-like. 10% is something like the number for Cretans.

[Asten]

The majority of Albanians look like these guys. 110815110816110817

[Varda]

Nope, no slav

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?350880-Eurogenes-K13-model-for-Balkanites&p=7274461&viewfull=1#post7274461


yes, 20-30%, but most of that is probably from the early medieval period, and not mixing with their neighbours.


Lots of misinformation in this thread. Albanians definitely have significant Slavic admixture, up to 25-30%+, and this is North-East Slavic like admixture, not Balkan-like. 10% is something like the number for Cretans.

According to this model Albanians are 31.7% Slavic https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?348836-Origins-of-I2a1b-Is-it-Slavic&p=7239796&viewfull=1#post7239796
https://i.imgur.com/mhwOfEC.png

[Carpatz]

According to this model Albanians are 31.7% Slavic https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?348836-Origins-of-I2a1b-Is-it-Slavic&p=7239796&viewfull=1#post7239796
https://i.imgur.com/mhwOfEC.png

Albanians don't really look Slavic at all, and their haplos are pretty tight too, at least in Ghegs, who are mostly R1b-L23, E-V13 and J2b. 31.7% seems too much.

[Varda]

Albanians don't really look Slavic at all, and their haplos are pretty tight too, at least in Ghegs, who are mostly R1b-L23, E-V13 and J2b. 31.7% seems too much.

Haplos are prone to founder effect, especially in clannish/isolated populations like Gheg Albanians.

[Dick]

Albanians don't really look Slavic at all, and their haplos are pretty tight too, at least in Ghegs, who are mostly R1b-L23, E-V13 and J2b. 31.7% seems too much.

They also have I2 and R1a, probably got cucked by Monkeydonskis and and Monteniggas

[Crn Volk]

They also have I2 and R1a, probably got cucked by Monkeydonskis and and Monteniggas

Yep.

[Terminator98]

I think they do as it is common for diffusion to occur even between groups speaking in very different languages, but it is clearly not much. I remember reading that it is around 10%, but how correct is that? The Slavic people with which they were in touch themselves are genetically only partially Slavs for a thousand years or more.

Using calculator CommonSense made (when it comes to south Slavs and neighbors best one so far).

Target: Albanian
Distance: 1.1048% / 1.10475686
51.8 Paleo_Balkan
32.9 Slavic
15.3 Eastern_Mediterranean

Target: Greek
Distance: 0.8041% / 0.80405279
41.3 Paleo_Balkan
30.1 Slavic
28.6 Eastern_Mediterranean

Target: Bulgaria_average
Distance: 0.1562% / 0.15622588
45.8 Slavic
31.1 Paleo_Balkan
23.1 Eastern_Mediterranean

Target: Bosniak_Bosnia
Distance: 0.1853% / 0.18525315
70.0 Slavic
17.6 Paleo_Balkan
10.1 Eastern_Mediterranean
2.3 Germanic

Target: Serb
Distance: 0.2793% / 0.27934721
58.1 Slavic
32.6 Paleo_Balkan
9.3 Eastern_Mediterranean

So, you are definitely underestimating proto Slavic admixture among them, as well as in south Slavs.

Of course, these are academic averages so there are definitely some regional differences in every country, but this is gist of it.

[Hulu]

Absolute nonsense.

[викторслава]

110818
as much as greeks have

[CommonSense]

Using calculator CommonSense made (when it comes to south Slavs and neighbors best one so far).

Target: Albanian
Distance: 1.1048% / 1.10475686
51.8 Paleo_Balkan
32.9 Slavic
15.3 Eastern_Mediterranean

Target: Greek
Distance: 0.8041% / 0.80405279
41.3 Paleo_Balkan
30.1 Slavic
28.6 Eastern_Mediterranean

Target: Bulgaria_average
Distance: 0.1562% / 0.15622588
45.8 Slavic
31.1 Paleo_Balkan
23.1 Eastern_Mediterranean

Target: Bosniak_Bosnia
Distance: 0.1853% / 0.18525315
70.0 Slavic
17.6 Paleo_Balkan
10.1 Eastern_Mediterranean
2.3 Germanic

Target: Serb
Distance: 0.2793% / 0.27934721
58.1 Slavic
32.6 Paleo_Balkan
9.3 Eastern_Mediterranean

So, you are definitely underestimating proto Slavic admixture among them, as well as in south Slavs.

Of course, these are academic averages so there are definitely some regional differences in every country, but this is gist of it.

That new paper which presented the genomic analysis from the Roman era burial grounds in eastern Serbia also gives them a similar estimate of Slavic ancestry:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?351332-Balkanic-genetic-study&p=7282777&viewfull=1#post7282777

Note that they used some ancient Ingrian sample as a proxy, so the Slavic admix is higher than that for all the listed populations.

[JohnnyP]

G25 Balkan t-sne by ph2ter

Macedonians,Greek Macedonians and Albanians :

https://i.imgur.com/OxTtm70.png

Macedonians with Romanians , Bulgarians and Serbs :

https://i.imgur.com/Ps4HRxa.png

Romanians, Bulgarians, Serbs and Montenegrins :

https://i.imgur.com/0UpPzmY.png

[Roy]

all this after ancient Crna Gora collapse

https://a.uguu.se/tDPcWDoi.png

Poor Montennigas. It is as bad as with Lithuania!

[Roy]

yes, 20-30%, but most of that is probably from the early medieval period, and not mixing with their neighbours.

Wow, so it is quite a lot then! More than I thought.

[Hulu]

Wow, so it is quite a lot then! More than I thought.

It's not even true :lol:

[Roy]

It's not even true :lol:

Yeah, 30-40% lol, no.