So, are Azeri people basically Kurdish with a touch of Caucasian?

[princeton90]

They seem to be zero Turkic. Apparently they are just Iranic people who speak a Turkic language.

MDLP World22

Distance to: Azeri
5.25441719 Kurd
9.54016247 Turk
10.34427378 Iranian
11.26618835 Kumyk
11.64173527 Armenian
11.71471297 Georgian
12.22881842 Jew-Uzbekistan
13.18004552 NorthOssetian
13.27004145 Jew_Tat
13.59878671 Kabardinian
13.79362171 Georgian_Laz
13.90395627 Cirkassian
13.99062543 Ossetian
14.00892573 Balkarian
14.10217005 Adygei
14.30114681 Jew_Azerbaijan
14.94432334 Jew_Kurd
15.30470516 Chechen
17.08173293 Iraqi
17.53602007 Jew_Iraqi
17.83779975 Lezgin
18.03191615 Jew-Iran
18.54572727 Jew-Iraqi
18.96744316 Jew_Georgia
18.99974474 Georgian_Imereti

Distance to: Azeri
1.85155593 82.80% Kurd + 17.20% Nogai
2.23901161 30.00% Kumyk + 70.00% Kurd
2.49108039 25.20% Cirkassian + 74.80% Kurd
2.65831563 24.80% Balkarian + 75.20% Kurd
2.78093597 92.20% Kurd + 7.80% Tatar_Lithuania
2.78566730 68.40% Armenian + 31.60% Tadjik
2.81721383 25.00% Kabardinian + 75.00% Kurd
2.88757977 7.80% Bashkir + 92.20% Kurd
2.92172502 92.80% Kurd + 7.20% Tatar
3.03435041 23.80% Adygei + 76.20% Kurd
3.06919565 93.40% Kurd + 6.60% Tartar_Mishar
3.08482908 6.40% Chuvash + 93.60% Kurd
3.15346049 44.80% Iraqi + 55.20% Ossetian
3.16864146 83.20% Kurd + 16.80% Turkmen
3.17729690 86.20% Kurd + 13.80% Tatar_Crim
3.20303442 93.60% Kurd + 6.40% Tatar_Kryashen
3.20759598 56.60% Iranian + 43.40% NorthOssetian
3.22052156 5.80% Komi + 94.20% Kurd
3.22131497 94.00% Kurd + 6.00% Mansi
3.22507655 94.00% Kurd + 6.00% Mari
3.24847081 75.60% Kurd + 24.40% NorthOssetian
3.27456446 89.20% Kurd + 10.80% Uzbek
3.28170686 93.60% Kurd + 6.40% Udmurd
3.28606723 42.60% Jew_Kurd + 57.40% Kumyk
3.29096266 94.60% Kurd + 5.40% Mordovian

[Leto]

That is probably one of the most obscure calculators, not widely used at all. Obviously they are not "zero Turkic", although their Turkic ancestry is definitely lower than that of Western Anatolian Turks. Still might be around 15-20% Turkic on average.

Target: Azerbaijani
Distance: 1.6679% / 0.01667878
84.6 Kurdish
15.4 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
0.0 Tabasaran

Target: Azerbaijani_Dagestan
Distance: 1.5041% / 0.01504114
55.2 Kurdish
35.8 Tabasaran
9.0 Turkmen_Uzbekistan

[Zoro]

Parts of your statement are true and one part is false.

It’s true that genetically Azeris are genetically almost identical to Badini or Kurmanji speaking Kurds, but is’s false to say they’re 0 Turkic.

If you truly want to examine Azeris Turkicness you should not use a base population that’s already Turkic admixed such as Kurds. You should use a base population such as ENF or Iran-Chl + E.Asian

This is like me saying E. Russians are 0 Siberian. They’re just basically Finns/Belaroussan + tiny tiny Siberian.Again I shouldn’t use Finns or Belaroussan as base population to measure E. Russians Siberianess. I should have used ENF or WHG + Siberian instead.

Another problem you have is which Kurd and Azeri samples are you using ?? I have seen Kurd and Azeri Turkicness all over the place. Just like I have seen Finn and Belaroussan Siberian all over the place.

[Sterling Archer]

That is probably one of the most obscure calculators, not widely used at all. Obviously they are not "zero Turkic", although their Turkic ancestry is definitely lower than that of Western Anatolian Turks. Still might be around 15-20% Turkic on average.

It is not the first time he opened this thread either. The previous one got ignored, so he decided to open a new one with the most obscure calculator ))

Azerbaijanis are certainly not identical to Kurds, or rather, some might be very similar, while others might quite differ. Azerbaijanis, depending on regions, might have significant Turkic and Caucasian input. I personally score up to 50% North Caucasian depending on the calculator, and someone from North West of the country might score massive Turkic input. So it varies. For example, K13 gives me this with better fit:
Target: Sterling_Archer(Azeri)
Distance: 1.1978% / 1.19776927
34.8 Lezgin
32.0 Abhkasian
18.9 Turkmen
14.3 Yemenite_Jewish

Both Turkic and Caucasian are evident, and not at all small. No Kurd would score like this.
Any person interested in this can check out West Asian Dodekad K12b thread where the results are posted. He just doesn't seem to care about what is going on.

[Zoro]

For example, K13 gives me this with better fit:
Target: Sterling_Archer(Azeri)
Distance: 1.1978% / 1.19776927
34.8 Lezgin
32.0 Abhkasian
18.9 Turkmen
14.3 Yemenite_Jewish .

Actually it’s higher Turkic than this because Lezgin and Abkhazian also have indirect Central Asian admixture. Try Turkmen + Chalcolithic pop and you’ll see how much more

In fact no modern Caucasian has been spared C. Asian admixture. If not directly then they received it indirectly from neighbors. We can prove this because when we compare modern Caucasians no matter who they’re always C.Asian shifted compared to local Chalcolithic populations in the area.

[Kyp]

Actually it’s higher Turkic than this because Lezgin and Abkhazian also have indirect Central Asian admixture. Try Turkmen + Chalcolithic pop and you’ll see how much more

In fact no modern Caucasian has been spared C. Asian admixture. If not directly then they received it indirectly from neighbors. We can prove this because when we compare modern Caucasians no matter who they’re always C.Asian shifted compared to local Chalcolithic populations in the area.

Target: Iranian_Azeri
Distance: 0.7018% / 0.00701771
44.6 Iran_CHL
26.0 Anatolia_Chalcolithic
15.6 Steppe
8.2 Early_Mongolia
3.0 Semitic
2.6 Helmand_BA

With medieval turkic proxy, rather than Early Mongolia:

Target: Iranian_Azeri
Distance: 0.7504% / 0.00750382
40.8 Iran_CHL
26.0 Anatolia_Chalcolithic
17.2 Medieval_Turkic_average
10.6 Steppe
3.0 Semitic
2.4 Helmand_BA

[Zoro]

Target: Iranian_Azeri
Distance: 0.7018% / 0.00701771
44.6 Iran_CHL
26.0 Anatolia_Chalcolithic
15.6 Steppe
8.2 Early_Mongolia
3.0 Semitic
2.6 Helmand_BA

With medieval turkic proxy, rather than Early Mongolia:

Target: Iranian_Azeri
Distance: 0.7504% / 0.00750382
40.8 Iran_CHL
26.0 Anatolia_Chalcolithic
17.2 Medieval_Turkic_average
10.6 Steppe
3.0 Semitic
2.4 Helmand_BA

Good. Although I feel much better with qpAdm models since that’s what is used in scientific publications

Although as you know the full range of variation of Republic Azeris to Iranian Azeris is quite large just like Kurds, so various models are needed to explain this full range

[Babak]

Didnt you ask this question previously?They score between 15-20% turkic admixture on average. Kurds barely have any EA admixture to begin with.

Azerbaijani from tabriz:

Gedrosian: 21.95
Siberian: 1.84
Northwest_African: 0.32
Southeast_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 7.81
North_European: 9.03
South_Asian 2.65
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 13.41
East_Asian: 5.77
Caucasian: 37.21
SSA: 0.00



Kurd from.Iran:

Gedrosian: 24.53
Siberian: 0.00
Northwest_African: 0.30
Southeast_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 3.87
North_European: 10.03
South_Asian: 2.83
East_African: 0.64
Southwest_Asian: 15.58
East_Asian: 1.07
Caucasian: 41.14
Sub_Saharan: 0.00

[Faklon]

Are all of them similar to begin with?

Funny that West-coast Turks use them as a reference to true Turan.

[Zoro]

Didnt you ask this question previously?They score between 15-20% turkic admixture on average. Kurds barely have any EA admixture to begin with.

Azerbaijani from tabriz:

Gedrosian: 21.95
Siberian: 1.84
Northwest_African: 0.32
Southeast_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 7.81
North_European: 9.03
South_Asian 2.65
East_African 0.00
Southwest_Asian: 13.41
East_Asian: 5.77
Caucasian: 37.21
SSA: 0.00



Kurd from.Iran:

Gedrosian: 24.53
Siberian: 0.00
Northwest_African: 0.30
Southeast_Asian: 0.00
Atlantic_Med: 3.87
North_European: 10.03
South_Asian: 2.83
East_African: 0.64
Southwest_Asian: 15.58
East_Asian: 1.07
Caucasian: 41.14
Sub_Saharan: 0.00


Not true because Gedrosian and Caucasian and S. Indian components are not even close to 100% W. Eurasian. If you’re really interested in measuring E. Eurasian you must use something where all components are 100% W. Eurasian and only one E. Eurasian component and preferably a calculator with no more than 5 components If someone scores 100% Caucasian, S. Indian, or Gedrosian it doesn’t mean they’re 100% W. Eurasian.

[Babak]

Not true because Gedrosian and Caucasian components are not even close to 100% W. Eurasian. If you’re really interested in measuring E. Eurasian you must use something where all components are 100% W. Eurasian and only one E. Eurasian component and preferably a calculator with no more than 5 components If someone scores 100% Caucasian, S. Indian, or Gedrosian it doesn’t mean they’re 100% W. Eurasian.

I guess. I remember Halgurd scored quite a bit if EA too but i forgot which calculator he used.

[Sterling Archer]

Actually it’s higher Turkic than this because Lezgin and Abkhazian also have indirect Central Asian admixture. Try Turkmen + Chalcolithic pop and you’ll see how much more

In fact no modern Caucasian has been spared C. Asian admixture. If not directly then they received it indirectly from neighbors. We can prove this because when we compare modern Caucasians no matter who they’re always C.Asian shifted compared to local Chalcolithic populations in the area.

Oh for sure. Don't know about the Abkhaz but Northern Caucasus carries decent amount of mongoloid and it shows in various calculators.
I didn't select these pops btw. I just reduced the number in the calculator and that is it. It was more illustrative (to point out that the OP is full of shit :)), rather than some definitive answer.

[Zoro]

I guess. I remember Halgurd scored quite a bit if EA too but i forgot which calculator he used.

Well yeah I know that people here like to use these calculators and G25 because they’re easy to use but there are much more reliable methods to measure Turkic or E Eurasian such as qpAdm, IBD, IBS, Dstats and such.

Papers using these methods have hinted that Iranics such as Kurds and Azeris have significant Central Asian Aryan and non Aryan admixture. For example this Harvard paper showing Kurds with one of the highest probability of E. Scythian ancestry in W. Asia

https://i.imgur.com/XMrqlG4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/TWJHPAp.jpg

Or this detailed study at EurasianDNA.com

https://i.imgur.com/cv50PGp.jpg


Or that HLA study from Iran showing Kurds clustering with Irani Turkmen(Gorgan) when comparing HLA haplotypes. And there’s the Central Asian phenotypes with some Kurds. One can’t just ignore all this evidence and just use amateur tools not intended for this type of analysis in the first place

[Leto]

Not true because Gedrosian and Caucasian and S. Indian components are not even close to 100% W. Eurasian. If you’re really interested in measuring E. Eurasian you must use something where all components are 100% W. Eurasian and only one E. Eurasian component and preferably a calculator with no more than 5 components If someone scores 100% Caucasian, S. Indian, or Gedrosian it doesn’t mean they’re 100% W. Eurasian.
Will you ever shut up and stop regurgitating the same shit? Yes, Kurds are all 11% Mongoloid as you claim you are. :picard1: I mean for fuck's sake, do you really have to butt in on every thread in order to say that?

[Zoro]

Will you ever shut up and stop regurgitating the same shit? Yes, Kurds are all 11% Mongoloid as you claim you are. :picard1: I mean for fuck's sake, do you really have to butt in on every thread in order to say that?

The usual great scientific counter argument designed to derail a thread and intimidate science and the truth. Hey kid I know more about you than you think :wink You may have fooled everyone here but not me.

You do realize that not everyone here is an air head and can see what you’re trying to do. People with guns pointed at me haven’t been able to intimidate me so if you think your usual demeaning 2 lines are going to intimidate me from conveying science and the truth you can go back to your fantasy land. I have lived through hell and am still kicking.

Unlike yourself and a very few of your cronies, There are a few here capable of comprehending science and are appreciative of what I write

[Kyp]

They seem to be zero Turkic. Apparently they are just Iranic people who speak a Turkic language.

MDLP World22

Distance to: Azeri
5.25441719 Kurd
9.54016247 Turk
10.34427378 Iranian
11.26618835 Kumyk
11.64173527 Armenian
11.71471297 Georgian
12.22881842 Jew-Uzbekistan
13.18004552 NorthOssetian
13.27004145 Jew_Tat
13.59878671 Kabardinian
13.79362171 Georgian_Laz
13.90395627 Cirkassian
13.99062543 Ossetian
14.00892573 Balkarian
14.10217005 Adygei
14.30114681 Jew_Azerbaijan
14.94432334 Jew_Kurd
15.30470516 Chechen
17.08173293 Iraqi
17.53602007 Jew_Iraqi
17.83779975 Lezgin
18.03191615 Jew-Iran
18.54572727 Jew-Iraqi
18.96744316 Jew_Georgia
18.99974474 Georgian_Imereti

Distance to: Azeri
1.85155593 82.80% Kurd + 17.20% Nogai
2.23901161 30.00% Kumyk + 70.00% Kurd
2.49108039 25.20% Cirkassian + 74.80% Kurd
2.65831563 24.80% Balkarian + 75.20% Kurd
2.78093597 92.20% Kurd + 7.80% Tatar_Lithuania
2.78566730 68.40% Armenian + 31.60% Tadjik
2.81721383 25.00% Kabardinian + 75.00% Kurd
2.88757977 7.80% Bashkir + 92.20% Kurd
2.92172502 92.80% Kurd + 7.20% Tatar
3.03435041 23.80% Adygei + 76.20% Kurd
3.06919565 93.40% Kurd + 6.60% Tartar_Mishar
3.08482908 6.40% Chuvash + 93.60% Kurd
3.15346049 44.80% Iraqi + 55.20% Ossetian
3.16864146 83.20% Kurd + 16.80% Turkmen
3.17729690 86.20% Kurd + 13.80% Tatar_Crim
3.20303442 93.60% Kurd + 6.40% Tatar_Kryashen
3.20759598 56.60% Iranian + 43.40% NorthOssetian
3.22052156 5.80% Komi + 94.20% Kurd
3.22131497 94.00% Kurd + 6.00% Mansi
3.22507655 94.00% Kurd + 6.00% Mari
3.24847081 75.60% Kurd + 24.40% NorthOssetian
3.27456446 89.20% Kurd + 10.80% Uzbek
3.28170686 93.60% Kurd + 6.40% Udmurd
3.28606723 42.60% Jew_Kurd + 57.40% Kumyk
3.29096266 94.60% Kurd + 5.40% Mordovian

Azeris are best described as Iranian people with some turkic and caucasus ancestry. Some show a stonger Anatolian/Armenian shift others a stronger Iranian shift. Azeris from bordering Dagestan show a stronger Caucasus shift. The majority of Azeris are closest to Kurds followed by Anatolian Turks and Iranians and form a cluster between those populations. Some Turks from Eastern and Central regions might be even closer than Kurds. That's because all of these populations share a good amount of ancestry from Anatolia, the Caucasus and Iran.

This two-way modelling of an Azeri from Bostanabad (close to Tabriz) shows their ancestry quite accurately:

Distance to: Azeri_Bostanabad
1.44433791 24.20% Turkmen_Turkmenistan + 75.80% Kurd_Kurmanji
1.51786435 82.00% Kurd_Kurmanji + 18.00% Uzbeki
1.56221750 80.80% Kurd_Kurmanji + 19.20% Uzbek
1.62397097 68.40% Kurd_Kurmanji + 31.60% Turkmen_Iran
1.68862039 81.80% Kurd_Kurmanji + 18.20% Turkmen_Afghanistan
1.68964811 15.20% Uyghur_Xinjiang + 84.80% Kurd_Kurmanji
1.70853888 76.60% Kurd_Kurmanji + 23.40% Turkmen_Uzbekistan
1.78305847 85.00% Dersim + 15.00% Hazara
1.84767654 75.60% Dersim + 24.40% Turkmen_Uzbekistan
1.89832466 85.80% Kurd_Kurmanji + 14.20% Nogai_Stavropol
1.90542031 13.60% Karakalpak + 86.40% Kurd_Kurmanji
1.95229962 14.20% Hazara + 85.80% Kurd_Kurmanji
1.99081799 25.00% Turkmen_Turkmenistan + 75.00% Dersim
2.03299257 15.80% Uyghur_Xinjiang + 84.20% Dersim
2.06719459 88.20% Kurd_Kurmanji + 11.80% Kyrgyz_Pamir
2.07339679 12.00% Kazakh + 88.00% Kurd_Kurmanji
2.08178695 14.80% Nogai_Stavropol + 85.20% Yazidi_Kurd
2.10087274 56.40% Azeri_Jew + 43.60% Tajik_Mountain
2.10315437 26.40% Balochi + 73.60% Turk_Central_Black_Sea
2.13262027 88.60% Kurd_Kurmanji + 11.40% Kyrgyz


And here proof that Azeris from the most northern regions are signficantly Caucasus admixed:

Distance to: Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.80074513 68.20% Azerbaijani_Republic + 31.80% Dargin_Kubachi
1.16794155 66.20% Azerbaijani_Republic + 33.80% Lak
1.17422570 56.80% Kumyk + 43.20% Yazidi_Kurd
1.30503915 62.60% Azerbaijani_Republic + 37.40% Tabasaran
1.34745029 57.80% Kumyk + 42.20% Kurd_Sorani
1.36020282 57.00% Azerbaijani_Turkey + 43.00% Lezgin
1.43542312 37.60% Iranian_Lur + 62.40% Kumyk
1.44364572 60.60% Azerbaijani_Republic + 39.40% Lezgin
1.46039075 31.60% Avar + 68.40% Azerbaijani_Republic
1.49774253 70.80% Azerbaijani_Republic + 29.20% Dargin
1.55682698 65.40% Azerbaijani_Turkey + 34.60% Dargin_Kubachi
1.56235516 65.80% Azerbaijani_Iran + 34.20% Dargin_Kubachi
1.67481328 69.60% Azerbaijani_Republic + 30.40% Dargin_Kaitag
1.77390128 56.60% Azerbaijani_Iran + 43.40% Chechen
1.80813091 60.60% Kumyk + 39.40% Kurd_Feyli
1.82387188 51.40% Iranian_Zoroastrian + 48.60% Kabardin
1.83465013 63.20% Azerbaijani_Turkey + 36.80% Lak
1.83796130 54.40% Kumyk + 45.60% Kurd_Kurmanji
1.86085773 34.60% Avar + 65.40% Azerbaijani_Turkey
1.87488077 46.40% Balkar + 53.60% Iranian_Zoroastrian
1.89890526 59.40% Azerbaijani_Turkey + 40.60% Tabasaran
1.90323119 63.80% Azerbaijani_Iran + 36.20% Lak
1.91163946 49.60% Dersim + 50.40% Kumyk
1.91463472 59.80% Azerbaijani_Iran + 40.20% Tabasaran
1.97317163 51.60% Chechen + 48.40% Yazidi_Kurd

[StonyArabia]

Turks and Iranians are very similar anyways. Where does the Turk begins and where does the Iranian end lol. At one time Tuk and Iranian were interchangeable. Hence the term Tajik.

Azeris are mostly Iranic and native Caucasus folks with some Turkic admixture

[Avicenna]

Turks and Iranians are very similar anyways. Where does the Turk begins and where does the Iranian end lol. At one time Tuk and Iranian were interchangeable. Hence the term Tajik.

Azeris are mostly Iranic and native Caucasus folks with some Turkic admixture

Tajik specifically means "non Turk"