Why do Egyptians have much less Steppe and Anatolian than most of their neighbors?

[Zanzibar]

Compare

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 2.3492% / 0.02349236
62.8 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
13.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
4.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
3.8 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
3.8 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
3.6 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN

Target: Libyan
Distance: 2.0727% / 0.02072724
57.2 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
13.4 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
9.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
9.4 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
5.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
0.4 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
0.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Tunisian
Distance: 2.3090% / 0.02309019
33.6 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
21.8 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
18.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
9.6 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
9.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
4.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.2 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
0.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian

Target: Algerian
Distance: 2.3217% / 0.02321734
27.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
24.4 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
21.6 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
12.8 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
10.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
1.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
0.6 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian

Target: Moroccan_North
Distance: 1.9915% / 0.01991538
38.6 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
29.8 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
9.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
8.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
7.2 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
2.6 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
2.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.2 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche
Distance: 2.0318% / 0.02031781
40.6 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
33.8 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
8.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
8.0 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
5.6 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
1.8 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG
1.6 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP

Target: Mozabite
Distance: 2.5102% / 0.02510237
34.6 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
32.4 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
11.8 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
11.0 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
7.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
0.8 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
0.8 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
0.6 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.6 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG

Target: Saharawi
Distance: 2.6067% / 0.02606705
36.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
26.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
12.4 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
12.4 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
7.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
4.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
0.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP

Compare to Levantines:

Target: Lebanese_Christian
Distance: 2.4376% / 0.02437589
43.8 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
22.0 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
19.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
6.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra

Target: Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
Distance: 2.8920% / 0.02892015
47.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
21.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
19.4 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
7.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
5.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra


Target: Jordanian
Distance: 1.8468% / 0.01846832
58.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
17.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
6.8 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
3.4 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
2.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
1.8 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
0.4 Japan_Jomon_Hunter-Gatherer_JPN_Jomon

Target: Samaritan
Distance: 3.4986% / 0.03498610
57.8 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
19.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
12.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
8.2 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
2.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra

Target: Palestinian
Distance: 2.1071% / 0.02107079
61.8 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
18.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
5.2 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
2.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
2.0 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
0.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N


Egyptians also have lower Steppe input on average than Levantines with the exception of Samaritans who seem to have even lower at very negligible almost noise levels.

So why do they have much less IE/Steppe and Anatolian than most of their neighbors? Does the desert geography of Egypt prevent more Steppe and Anatolian gene flow?

[Leto]

Much of the Maghreb may have post-Reconquista European admixture which Egypt obviously doesn't.

[Zanzibar]

Much of the Maghreb may have post-Reconquista European admixture which Egypt obviously doesn't.

That could be the case. Or it could be that they receive ancient European admixture from Neolithic Iberians and Bell Beaker Iberia due to close proximity to Southern Europe as well from what I read on Anthrogenica.

[Leto]

That could be the case. Or it could be that they receive ancient European admixture from Neolithic Iberians and Bell Beaker Iberia due to close proximity to Southern Europe as well from what I read on Anthrogenica.
Yes, that too. Egypt must have more Arabian ancestry and it's (Arabia) obviously pretty much zero European. Libya should be somewhere halfway between Egypt and the Maghreb.

[Zanzibar]

Yes, that too. Egypt must have more Arabian ancestry and it's (Arabia) obviously pretty much zero European. Libya should be somewhere halfway between Egypt and the Maghreb.

True. By European, do you mean Steppe? If so you might be surprised as I was shocked myself, but I did some runs on Peninsular Arabs like Saudis and Yemeni samples on G25, and crazily a lot of them score very minor amounts of Steppe admixture. The only group who seem to mostly lack any Steppe was Mahra of Southern Yemen/Oman who seem even more isolated than other Arabian populations.

I can post those models if you want.

[Hektor12]

Maybe this is the answer? :cool:

https://i.imgur.com/Qop29Nh.jpg

https://twitter.com/cirublessed/status/1456219464765218821

[XenophobicPrussian]

because it's further away from Steppe and Anatolian areas? Weird question. Also far more densely populated with an easily defendable small Isthmus of Suez to the east, only a small strip of habitable coast with Libya in the west.

Also, higher Anatolian in North Africans is due to Iberian neolithic migrations, nothing to do with the Reconquista. Iberian neolithics made it all the way down to the Sahel and northern Nigeria.

[Leto]

True. By European, do you mean Steppe? If so you might be surprised as I was shocked myself, but I did some runs on Peninsular Arabs like Saudis and Yemeni samples on G25, and crazily a lot of them score very minor amounts of Steppe admixture. The only group who seem to mostly lack any Steppe was Mahra of Southern Yemen/Oman who seem even more isolated than other Arabian populations.

I can post those models if you want.
Not necessarily Steppe. Western Med type of stuff too. But you're right, noise levels of European can be found there.

[Zanzibar]

because it's further away from Steppe and Anatolian areas? Weird question. Also far more densely populated with an easily defendable small Isthmus of Suez to the east, only a small strip of habitable coast with Libya in the west.

Also, higher Anatolian in North Africans is due to Iberian neolithic migrations, nothing to do with the Reconquista. Iberian neolithics made it all the way down to the Sahel and northern Nigeria.

It's not weird to me. As I'm genuinely baffled why they have less than their neighbors. I will admit I'm pretty much a layman about MENA genetics and history hence the question.

Egypt is much more densely populated than Maghreb and Levant?

Well where do the Steppe in Maghrebis come from and why do they have it in higher amounts than Egyptians?

[Zanzibar]

Not necessarily Steppe. Western Med type of stuff too. But you're right, noise levels of European can be found there.

You mean something like EEF? But isn't EEF-like ancestry also indigenous to the MENA area? I mean how would you distinguish European EEF from the MENA one?

Well here's the thread I made about this Steppe signal in Arabia: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?355568-Do-some-Arabians-have-minor-Steppe-ancestry

[Adamm]

This just proved that Egyptians didn't had major genetic reconstructions within all these thousands of years, ancient Egyptians (pre-Ptolemaic) also didn't carry any Steppe ancestry (so Egyptians retained a genetic continuity since at least the Late bronze age). The only thing that changed in genetic make-up of Egyptians is a slight upgrade in Sub Saharan admixture (Dinka-related). So why didn't Egyptians carry EEF and or Steppe, well its probably because they had the abilities to defend themselves from genocide or ethnic cleansing, either trough becoming a vessel state (i.e. Ptolemaic era when the Egyptians became vessels to the Greek) or after that during the Roman era and even after that during the Arab era.

[Zanzibar]

This just proved that Egyptians didn't had major genetic reconstructions within all these thousands of years, ancient Egyptians (pre-Ptolemaic) also didn't carry any Steppe ancestry (so Egyptians retained a genetic continuity since at least the Late bronze age). The only thing that changed in genetic make-up of Egyptians is a slight upgrade in Sub Saharan admixture (Dinka-related). So why didn't Egyptians carry EEF and or Steppe, well its probably because they had the abilities to defend themselves from genocide or ethnic cleansing, either trough becoming a vessel state (i.e. Ptolemaic era when the Egyptians became vessels to the Greek) or after that during the Roman era and even after that during the Arab era.

Actually Egyptians do seem to score very minor Steppe like 2-4% and they do score some EEF but not as much as Maghrebis depending on certain G25 models that I have seen. But yes I do agreed and get your point. Appreciated your answer.

For example here is another model:

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 1.8130% / 0.01813018
33.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
26.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
18.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
8.0 Dinka
6.8 ANA_(simulated)
3.8 Yoruba
2.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra

Target: Libyan
Distance: 1.8997% / 0.01899707
30.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
21.0 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
17.6 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
11.2 ANA_(simulated)
9.0 Yoruba
6.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
3.8 Dinka

Target: Tunisian
Distance: 2.1670% / 0.02166969
30.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
24.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
13.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
13.0 ANA_(simulated)
9.2 Yoruba
7.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
1.8 Dinka
0.4 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

Target: Algerian
Distance: 2.2752% / 0.02275247
34.6 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
21.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
13.2 ANA_(simulated)
11.8 Yoruba
9.2 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
8.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
1.6 Dinka
0.4 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

Target: Moroccan_North
Distance: 2.0751% / 0.02075059
41.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
18.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
15.0 ANA_(simulated)
9.0 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
7.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
6.4 Yoruba
2.4 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche
Distance: 2.1996% / 0.02199552
40.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
21.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
17.0 ANA_(simulated)
8.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
5.2 Yoruba
4.4 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
1.8 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
1.2 Dinka
0.2 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG

Target: Mozabite
Distance: 2.6284% / 0.02628392
38.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
20.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
16.2 ANA_(simulated)
10.2 Yoruba
6.2 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
6.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
1.2 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
0.8 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

Target: Saharawi
Distance: 2.6465% / 0.02646521
31.0 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
27.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
19.0 ANA_(simulated)
11.2 Yoruba
7.6 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
2.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
0.8 Dinka
0.4 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

Target: Berber_MAR_TIZ
Distance: 2.5081% / 0.02508085
38.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
21.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
19.8 ANA_(simulated)
10.6 Yoruba
4.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
2.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
1.4 Dinka
0.8 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso

So it seems Egyptians still have some Steppe and Anatolian but just in lesser amounts than Maghrebis.

Coordinates used for this model:


Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra,0.1255849,0.089028,0.0426986,0.1153479,-0.0287232,0.0450564,0.0036033,-0.0025642,-0.0559032,-0.0728943,0.0018222,3.32e-05,-0.0026924,-0.0233041,0.0366141,0.0157633,-0.0012316,-0.0017879,-0.0038408,0.0137704,-0.0031749,0.0007557,0.0110649,0.0186102,-0.004537
ANA_(simulated),-0.571392,-0.027419,0.013576,0.009855,0.040623,-0.015523,-0.162235,0.067998,0.243042,0.002005,-0.000784,-0.041239,0.081441,-0.148149,0.15178,-0.082206,0.072689,-0.168241,-0.366474,0.042,-0.114965,-0.336542,0.211801,-0.030807,0.023369
Proto-Natufian_(simulated),0.154549,0.185486,-0.045424,-0.181721,0.03489,-0.100323,0.001981,-0.039605,0.09774,0.004875,0.044136,-0.019354,0.081207,0.037592,-0.017759,0.025542,-0.036934,0.037069,0.054803,0.04523,0.025848,0.0795 25,-0.051595,0.007188,0.001536
Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0430252,0 .0664158,-0.1550722,0.0047158,-0.122669,0.0235384,0.017109,-0.0011998,-0.082546,-0.0544158,-0.0028258,-0.0016186,0.0044896,-0.0062756,0.0316498,0.0561384,-0.0054242,0.0068664,0.0136508,-0.0334162,0.00856,-0.028836,-0.0110678,-0.039331,0.0222254
Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N,0.1175998,0 .180118,0.0035312,-0.101158,0.0510443,-0.0483875,-0.0043582,-0.0069334,0.0362287,0.0807473,0.0079718,0.0118803,-0.0234545,0.0004691,-0.0419807,-0.0101913,0.0233091,0.0019866,0.0136954,-0.0097489,-0.0142249,0.0057723,-0.0041232,-0.0031658,-0.0043437
ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso,0.1225497,0.1120467,0.2 008793,0.2048907,0.1728527,0.0618207,0.0160593,0.0 412293,0.108602,0.0271533,-0.0193243,-0.0143373,0.0162043,-0.0086703,0.0708007,0.069035,0.0002173,0.0120353,-0.0099303,0.0637807,0.118,0.0113347,-0.0608843,-0.1971763,0.021994
ETH_4500BP,-0.511066,0.043668,0.000754,0.000969,-0.00277,-0.011435,0.050997,-0.045229,0.089172,-0.087838,-0.012991,-0.002997,-0.031219,0.000688,0.02158,-0.029965,0.027772,0.039273,0.00176,-0.009004,0.000374,0.006183,-0.003451,-0.00241,-0.000838
Dinka,-0.577083,0.0507765,-0.0003773,-0.0075098,-0.0053855,-0.0016735,-0.0176848,0.0204222,0.081145,-0.0969495,-0.02107,0.022742,-0.0383172,-0.0011698,0.0101452,-0.021347,0.0186125,-0.0094382,0.0241968,-0.0241678,0.002402,0.003308,0.001479,0.0009038,0.0 096995
Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246
IRN_Seh_Gabi_C,0.0799038,0.1186138,-0.1042362,-0.054264,-0.067151,-0.0124944,0.005499,-0.0086302,-0.0478176,-0.0168748,0.0024684,0.0005096,-0.001427,-0.0011558,0.0034204,0.0170244,-0.0028684,0.0046622,0.0082206,-0.014682,0.0070626,-0.005787,-0.0015282,-0.0162432,0.0072566

[Östsvensk]

Maybe this is the answer? :cool:

https://i.imgur.com/Qop29Nh.jpg

https://twitter.com/cirublessed/status/1456219464765218821

Lol, I watched a video just the other day which somehow popped up in my feed where a black guy makes this kind of argument. What a coincidence, haha.


https://youtu.be/FvNn9o4Fn6E

He's basically saying that Turks (along with Arabs and Italians) over the centuries made Berbers whiter. xD

[Adamm]

Lol, I watched a video just the other day which somehow popped up in my feed where a black guy makes this kind of argument. What a coincidence, haha.


https://youtu.be/FvNn9o4Fn6E

He's basically saying that Turks (along with Arabs and Italians) over the centuries made Berbers whiter. xD

I'm not gonna waste 24 minutes on this kinda crap, only someone with 0 genetic insight would make such a claim.

[E1b1b]

Lol, I watched a video just the other day which somehow popped up in my feed where a black guy makes this kind of argument. What a coincidence, haha.


https://youtu.be/FvNn9o4Fn6E

He's basically saying that Turks (along with Arabs and Italians) over the centuries made Berbers whiter. xD



Dude the real secret no black man knows is that his Y-DNA came from Half Eurasian wogs killing off their Y DNA A and B native lineages and replacing them with Y-DNA E lineages.

[Östsvensk]

I'm not gonna waste 24 minutes on this kinda crap, only someone with 0 genetic insight would make such a claim.

You don't really have to watch it, it can be pretty much summarized in what I said. He's an Afrocentrist, which he states himself. He makes his main argument at the 6-8 minute mark. His arguments are mainly linguistic, that Berbers speak a "black" language and this means they were black people who became gradually whitened, then he references professor Christopher Ehret. In the video he also says that ancient Egyptians were black at first and by the time of Cleopatra, they (or at least she) had started to look like the pale-skinned woman in the video. :D

[Flashball]

Tepecik is 50% Anatolian hunter gatherer and 50% irano-levantin neolithic

[Borealis]

It's kind of a mystery why they don't have as much ANF as Levantines who are right next door but ancient Egyptians were very high Natufian much like modern Arabs. Perhaps the Sinai peninsula was enough of a barrier that ANF didn't penetrate into Egypt as much.

As for steppe, I think it's pretty clear that the reconquista as well as the Barbary slave trade DID have an effect on the people. You might explain higher ANF through Iberia_neolithic but higher steppe in Maghrebis vs Egyptians can only be explained one way.

Also, Arabian ancestry is not responsible for Egyptians being ANF depressed relative to their neighbors. Ancient Egyptians were more Levant shifted than modern Muslim Egyptians are so if anything it may even be the opposite.

Target: EGY_Late_Period
Distance: 2.9131% / 0.02913112
76.4 Levant_PPNC
10.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.2 GEO_CHG
2.0 Dinka
2.0 MAR_Taforalt
1.0 RUS_Tyumen_HG

Target: Levant_Beirut_IAIII_Egyptian
Distance: 3.5684% / 0.03568370
72.2 Levant_PPNC
11.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.0 GEO_CHG
3.4 Dinka
1.4 RUS_Karelia_HG
1.2 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Egyptian_Copt
Distance: 2.5711% / 0.02571066
70.4 Levant_PPNC
14.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.4 Dinka
6.2 GEO_CHG
2.6 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 2.4017% / 0.02401747
58.4 Levant_PPNC
15.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.8 Dinka
5.6 GEO_CHG
3.6 TUR_Barcin_N
2.6 MAR_Taforalt
2.4 RUS_Karelia_HG

[Leto]

It's kind of a mystery why they don't have as much ANF as Levantines who are right next door but ancient Egyptians were very high Natufian much like modern Arabs. Perhaps the Sinai peninsula was enough of a barrier that ANF didn't penetrate into Egypt as much.

As for steppe, I think it's pretty clear that the reconquista as well as the Barbary slave trade DID have an effect on the people. You might explain higher ANF through Iberia_neolithic but higher steppe in Maghrebis vs Egyptians can only be explained one way.

Also, Arabian ancestry is not responsible for Egyptians being ANF depressed relative to their neighbors. Ancient Egyptians were more Levant shifted than modern Muslim Egyptians are so if anything it may even be the opposite.

Target: EGY_Late_Period
Distance: 2.9131% / 0.02913112
76.4 Levant_PPNC
10.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.2 GEO_CHG
2.0 Dinka
2.0 MAR_Taforalt
1.0 RUS_Tyumen_HG

Target: Levant_Beirut_IAIII_Egyptian
Distance: 3.5684% / 0.03568370
72.2 Levant_PPNC
11.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.0 GEO_CHG
3.4 Dinka
1.4 RUS_Karelia_HG
1.2 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Egyptian_Copt
Distance: 2.5711% / 0.02571066
70.4 Levant_PPNC
14.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.4 Dinka
6.2 GEO_CHG
2.6 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 2.4017% / 0.02401747
58.4 Levant_PPNC
15.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.8 Dinka
5.6 GEO_CHG
3.6 TUR_Barcin_N
2.6 MAR_Taforalt
2.4 RUS_Karelia_HG
It confirms that the Copts are the true Egyptians. I would like to know the precise percentage of Copts living in Egypt. Too bad there are no reliable statistics.
Also, what are their main haplogroups?

[Borealis]

It confirms that the Copts are the true Egyptians. I would like to know the precise percentage of Copts living in Egypt. Too bad there are no reliable statistics.
Also, what are their main haplogroups?

According to Y-DNA analysis by Hassan et al. (2008), around 45% of Copts in Sudan carry the haplogroup J. The remainder mainly belong to the E1b1b clade (21%). Both paternal lineages are common among other local Afroasiatic-speaking populations (Beja, Ethiopians, Sudanese Arabs), as well as many Nubians.[126] E1b1b/E3b reaches its highest frequencies among North Africans, Levantine Middle Easterners, and Ethiopid East Africans.[127] The next most common haplogroups borne by Copts are the European-linked R1b clade (15%), as well as the archaic African B lineage (15%).[126]

“Maternally, Hassan (2009) found that Copts in Sudan exclusively carry various descendants of the macrohaplogroup N. This mtDNA clade is likewise closely associated with local Afroasiatic-speaking populations, including Berbers and Ethiopid peoples. Of the N derivatives borne by Copts, U6 is most frequent (28%), followed by the haplogroup T (17%).[128]“

The vast majority of Christians in Egypt are Copts and vice versa. They are generally accepted to be about 10% of the population although I sometimes wonder if that’s an overestimate. So about 10% of Egypt is Coptic give or take a few percentage points.

Yea, they’re definitely the purest heirs of ancient Egypt. Unfortunately no geneticist is going to admit that because of the “black Egypt” controversy and not-wanting-to-step-on-toes PC bullshit. So it’s basically up to us to connect the dots for regular people since the scientists refuse to do so themselves. It’s really sad.

[Leto]

According to Y-DNA analysis by Hassan et al. (2008), around 45% of Copts in Sudan carry the haplogroup J. The remainder mainly belong to the E1b1b clade (21%). Both paternal lineages are common among other local Afroasiatic-speaking populations (Beja, Ethiopians, Sudanese Arabs), as well as many Nubians.[126] E1b1b/E3b reaches its highest frequencies among North Africans, Levantine Middle Easterners, and Ethiopid East Africans.[127] The next most common haplogroups borne by Copts are the European-linked R1b clade (15%), as well as the archaic African B lineage (15%).[126]

“Maternally, Hassan (2009) found that Copts in Sudan exclusively carry various descendants of the macrohaplogroup N. This mtDNA clade is likewise closely associated with local Afroasiatic-speaking populations, including Berbers and Ethiopid peoples. Of the N derivatives borne by Copts, U6 is most frequent (28%), followed by the haplogroup T (17%).[128]“

The vast majority of Christians in Egypt are Copts and vice versa. They are generally accepted to be about 10% of the population although I sometimes wonder if that’s an overestimate. So about 10% of Egypt is Coptic give or take a few percentage points.

Yea, they’re definitely the purest heirs of ancient Egypt. Unfortunately no geneticist is going to admit that because of the “black Egypt” controversy and not-wanting-to-step-on-toes PC bullshit. So it’s basically up to us to connect the dots for regular people since the scientists refuse to do so themselves. It’s really sad.
Thanks, I agree. Though I must say it doesn't do good to those right-wingers who keep repeating unsubstantiated lies about a white elite in ancient Egypt either. There is no evidence it was ruled by Aryans or even partial Europeans. Only R1b was found, I believe, which can come with little to no Steppe ancestry. I guess they say it as a reaction to what black nationalists claim about Egypt.

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/002/089/720/b51.jpg

[nee4speed111]

Compare

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 2.3492% / 0.02349236
62.8 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
13.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
4.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
3.8 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
3.8 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
3.6 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN

Target: Libyan
Distance: 2.0727% / 0.02072724
57.2 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
13.4 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
9.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
9.4 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
5.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
0.4 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
0.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Tunisian
Distance: 2.3090% / 0.02309019
33.6 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
21.8 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
18.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
9.6 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
9.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
4.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.2 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
0.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian

Target: Algerian
Distance: 2.3217% / 0.02321734
27.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
24.4 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
21.6 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
12.8 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
10.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
1.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
0.6 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian

Target: Moroccan_North
Distance: 1.9915% / 0.01991538
38.6 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
29.8 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
9.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
8.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
7.2 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
2.6 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
2.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.2 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche
Distance: 2.0318% / 0.02031781
40.6 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
33.8 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
8.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
8.0 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
5.6 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
1.8 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG
1.6 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP

Target: Mozabite
Distance: 2.5102% / 0.02510237
34.6 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
32.4 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
11.8 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
11.0 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
7.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
0.8 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
0.8 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
0.6 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.6 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG

Target: Saharawi
Distance: 2.6067% / 0.02606705
36.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
26.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
12.4 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
12.4 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
7.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
4.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
0.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP

Compare to Levantines:

Target: Lebanese_Christian
Distance: 2.4376% / 0.02437589
43.8 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
22.0 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
19.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
6.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra

Target: Palestinian_Beit_Sahour
Distance: 2.8920% / 0.02892015
47.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
21.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
19.4 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
7.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
5.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra


Target: Jordanian
Distance: 1.8468% / 0.01846832
58.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
17.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
6.8 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
3.4 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
2.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
1.8 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
0.4 Japan_Jomon_Hunter-Gatherer_JPN_Jomon

Target: Samaritan
Distance: 3.4986% / 0.03498610
57.8 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
19.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
12.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
8.2 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
2.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra

Target: Palestinian
Distance: 2.1071% / 0.02107079
61.8 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
18.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
5.2 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
2.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
2.0 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
0.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N


Egyptians also have lower Steppe input on average than Levantines with the exception of Samaritans who seem to have even lower at very negligible almost noise levels.

So why do they have much less IE/Steppe and Anatolian than most of their neighbors? Does the desert geography of Egypt prevent more Steppe and Anatolian gene flow?

Steppe ancestry arrived in Egypt relatively recently, for example I have 0% steppe ancestry


Target: Nee4speed111_scaled
Distance: 3.9581% / 0.03958128
67.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
9.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
8.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
7.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
1.6 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN

Most Copts also have either 0% Steppe or negligible amounts

Target: Coptsudan_scaled
Distance: 3.0482% / 0.03048185
65.8 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
10.6 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.0 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
7.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
5.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
2.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
1.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra



Target: Copt5_scaled
Distance: 3.0891% / 0.03089097
66.4 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
9.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
7.2 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
6.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
2.8 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
0.4 Japan_Jomon_Hunter-Gatherer_JPN_Jomon


Target: Egyptian:Coptic_Egyptian
Distance: 2.5062% / 0.02506225
64.2 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
11.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
6.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
6.4 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
3.0 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN


Target: Copt4_scaled
Distance: 2.9981% / 0.02998088
64.4 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
11.0 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
10.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
4.8 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
1.0 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
0.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra



Target: Copt3_scaled
Distance: 3.0344% / 0.03034419
66.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
9.6 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
8.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.6 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
5.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
2.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN

[Borealis]

Steppe ancestry arrived in Egypt relatively recently, for example I have 0% steppe ancestry


Target: Nee4speed111_scaled
Distance: 3.9581% / 0.03958128
67.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
9.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
8.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
7.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
1.6 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN

Most Copts also have either 0% Steppe or negligible amounts

Target: Coptsudan_scaled
Distance: 3.0482% / 0.03048185
65.8 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
10.6 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.0 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
7.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
5.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
2.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
1.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra



Target: Copt5_scaled
Distance: 3.0891% / 0.03089097
66.4 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
9.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
7.2 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
6.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
2.8 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
0.4 Japan_Jomon_Hunter-Gatherer_JPN_Jomon


Target: Egyptian:Coptic_Egyptian
Distance: 2.5062% / 0.02506225
64.2 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
11.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
6.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
6.4 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
3.0 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN


Target: Copt4_scaled
Distance: 2.9981% / 0.02998088
64.4 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
11.0 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
10.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
4.8 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
1.0 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
0.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra



Target: Copt3_scaled
Distance: 3.0344% / 0.03034419
66.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
9.6 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
8.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.6 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
5.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
2.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN

Can you send me your+the coordinates of the other copts? I want to test them out.

Very cool results btw.

[Zanzibar]

Steppe ancestry arrived in Egypt relatively recently, for example I have 0% steppe ancestry


Target: Nee4speed111_scaled
Distance: 3.9581% / 0.03958128
67.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
9.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
8.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
7.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
1.6 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN

Most Copts also have either 0% Steppe or negligible amounts

Target: Coptsudan_scaled
Distance: 3.0482% / 0.03048185
65.8 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
10.6 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.0 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
7.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
5.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
2.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
1.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra



Target: Copt5_scaled
Distance: 3.0891% / 0.03089097
66.4 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
9.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
7.2 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
6.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
2.8 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
0.4 Japan_Jomon_Hunter-Gatherer_JPN_Jomon


Target: Egyptian:Coptic_Egyptian
Distance: 2.5062% / 0.02506225
64.2 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
11.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
6.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
6.4 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
3.0 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN


Target: Copt4_scaled
Distance: 2.9981% / 0.02998088
64.4 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
11.0 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
10.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
4.8 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
1.0 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
0.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra



Target: Copt3_scaled
Distance: 3.0344% / 0.03034419
66.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
9.6 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
8.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.6 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
5.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
2.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN

Do you know why Maghrebis/Berbers have a lot more Steppe blood than Egyptians?

[Ezio Auditore]

That could be the case. Or it could be that they receive ancient European admixture from Neolithic Iberians and Bell Beaker Iberia due to close proximity to Southern Europe as well from what I read on Anthrogenica.

ding ding. Yes, trade definitely occurred between southern Iberia and North Africa. The occasional mixing would then obviously occur for millennia between both populations, the same occurred in Sicily and other parts. It's the beautiful cultural diffusion of the Mediterranean! Then with more modern events, romans went to north Africa, vandals, visigoths probably interacted with north African coastline as well... etc. it makes a lot of sense.

[nee4speed111]

Do you know why Maghrebis/Berbers have a lot more Steppe blood than Egyptians?

Probably Iberian admixture post Neolithic, as the Late Neolithic Moroccan sample from 3000BCE doesn't seem to have any, although it does have elevated Anatolian ancestry along with WHG.


Target: MAR_LN:KEB.4
Distance: 4.0692% / 0.04069214
61.4 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
27.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
6.8 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
3.0 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG
1.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
0.2 Siberia_Uralic-like_Hunter-Gatherer_RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA

The steppe probably predates the Islamic period though, as Guanches from the 7th–11th centuries CE do have steppe ancestry.

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun012
Distance: 2.8062% / 0.02806199
40.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
36.6 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
8.6 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
6.0 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
4.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
1.8 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
1.4 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG
0.8 West_Africa_Hunter-Gatherer_CMR_Shum_Laka_3000BP
0.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun011
Distance: 3.0062% / 0.03006166
37.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
37.0 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
8.0 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
6.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
5.2 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
2.8 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG
2.6 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.0 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun008
Distance: 3.7489% / 0.03748943
45.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
30.6 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
9.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
5.8 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
4.0 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
2.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
1.4 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG
0.8 West_Africa_Hunter-Gatherer_CMR_Shum_Laka_3000BP

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun005
Distance: 2.9724% / 0.02972441
34.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
28.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
12.6 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
8.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
6.8 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG
4.6 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
2.0 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
1.8 Japan_Jomon_Hunter-Gatherer_JPN_Jomon
1.2 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun002
Distance: 3.0943% / 0.03094291
40.4 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
37.6 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
7.0 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
4.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
3.6 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
2.2 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
2.0 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.2 Indus__Valley_Civilization_IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
1.0 Siberia_Uralic-like_Hunter-Gatherer_RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.2 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG

[Zanzibar]

Probably Iberian admixture post Neolithic, as the Late Neolithic Moroccan sample from 3000BCE doesn't seem to have any, although it does have elevated Anatolian ancestry along with WHG.


Target: MAR_LN:KEB.4
Distance: 4.0692% / 0.04069214
61.4 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
27.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
6.8 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
3.0 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG
1.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
0.2 Siberia_Uralic-like_Hunter-Gatherer_RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA

The steppe probably predates the Islamic period though, as Guanches from the 7th–11th centuries CE do have steppe ancestry.

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun012
Distance: 2.8062% / 0.02806199
40.2 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
36.6 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
8.6 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
6.0 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
4.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
1.8 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
1.4 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG
0.8 West_Africa_Hunter-Gatherer_CMR_Shum_Laka_3000BP
0.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun011
Distance: 3.0062% / 0.03006166
37.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
37.0 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
8.0 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
6.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
5.2 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
2.8 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG
2.6 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.0 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun008
Distance: 3.7489% / 0.03748943
45.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
30.6 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
9.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
5.8 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
4.0 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
2.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
1.4 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG
0.8 West_Africa_Hunter-Gatherer_CMR_Shum_Laka_3000BP

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun005
Distance: 2.9724% / 0.02972441
34.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
28.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
12.6 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
8.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
6.8 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG
4.6 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
2.0 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
1.8 Japan_Jomon_Hunter-Gatherer_JPN_Jomon
1.2 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche:gun002
Distance: 3.0943% / 0.03094291
40.4 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
37.6 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
7.0 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP
4.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
3.6 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
2.2 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
2.0 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.2 Indus__Valley_Civilization_IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
1.0 Siberia_Uralic-like_Hunter-Gatherer_RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.2 West_Europe_Hunter-Gatherer_WHG

There isn't that much trading and other exchanges between Egypt and Mediterranean Europe like Greece, Roman Empire compared to the Maghreb which would also lead to an increase in this Steppe blood?

[nee4speed111]

There isn't that much trading and other exchanges between Egypt and Mediterranean Europe like Greece, Roman Empire compared to the Maghreb which would also lead to an increase in this Steppe blood?

There was, both Greece and Rome had a very large impact historically on Egypt. Its actually fascinating how Greek admixture in Egyptians seems to be non-existent despite the long historical ties, it is probably a function of comparative population sizes & the fact that pre-modern Urban populations were effectively a population sink.

[Borealis]

There was, both Greece and Rome had a very large impact historically on Egypt. Its actually fascinating how Greek admixture in Egyptians seems to be non-existent despite the long historical ties, it is probably a function of comparative population sizes & the fact that pre-modern Urban populations were effectively a population sink.

Another factor is that a lot of Greek ancestry is so ancient that it effectively has no resemblance to modern Greek populations, therefore making it harder to detect. I believe Levantines do have some amount of late Bronze Age/Minoan/Mycenean Greek Admixture.

[nee4speed111]

Another factor is that a lot of Greek ancestry is so ancient that it effectively has no resemblance to modern Greek populations, therefore making it harder to detect. I believe Levantines do have some amount of late Bronze Age/Minoan/Mycenean Greek Admixture.

Its hard to say without ancient DNA from Classical Greece, even the Myceneans have some Steppe admixture although you are correct in that it is significantly less than modern Greeks. But for Copts specifically, we are no more Minoan/Mycenean Greek shifted than Pre-Ptolemaic Egyptian samples.

[Leto]

Steppe ancestry arrived in Egypt relatively recently, for example I have 0% steppe ancestry


Target: Nee4speed111_scaled
Distance: 3.9581% / 0.03958128
67.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
9.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
8.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
7.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
1.6 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN

Hi,
Can you also share your Gedmatch? Euro K13, Dodecad K12b. Only the components.

[nee4speed111]

Hi,
Can you also share your Gedmatch? Euro K13, Dodecad K12b. Only the components.

Eurogenes K13

1 East_Med 46.07
2 Red_Sea 23.92
3 West_Med 14.73
4 Northeast_African 11.1
5 West_Asian 4.18

Dodecad K12b

1 Caucasus 35.64
2 Southwest_Asian 33.37
3 Atlantic_Med 11.19
4 Northwest_African 9.99
5 East_African 9.81

[Zanzibar]

There was, both Greece and Rome had a very large impact historically on Egypt. Its actually fascinating how Greek admixture in Egyptians seems to be non-existent despite the long historical ties, it is probably a function of comparative population sizes & the fact that pre-modern Urban populations were effectively a population sink.

That's strange indeed. So cultural, trading and religious exchange and interactions with very limited gene flow?

What does population sink means? Can you elaborate more on it?

I wonder if there are more Greek (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18761-Who-are-North-Africans-descended-from&p=616242&viewfull=1#post616242) ancestry in Libya and other parts of the Maghreb than in Egypt?

[nee4speed111]

That's strange indeed. So cultural, trading and religious exchange and interactions with very limited gene flow?

What does population sink means? Can you elaborate more on it?

I wonder if there are more Greek (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18761-Who-are-North-Africans-descended-from&p=616242&viewfull=1#post616242) ancestry in Libya and other parts of the Maghreb than in Egypt?

When I say that pre-modern Urban populations were a population sink, what I mean is that their population was sustained by immigration from the surrounding countryside rather than by birth rates within the city. Because of unhygienic conditions & poor sanitation, pre-modern cities had lots of disease which meant they had negative natural population growth, thus if there was a large degree of difference in Urban-rural rates between ethnicities in a country, over time the rural genotype would come to dominate due to this fact.

[Leto]

Eurogenes K13

1 East_Med 46.07
2 Red_Sea 23.92
3 West_Med 14.73
4 Northeast_African 11.1
5 West_Asian 4.18

Dodecad K12b

1 Caucasus 35.64
2 Southwest_Asian 33.37
3 Atlantic_Med 11.19
4 Northwest_African 9.99
5 East_African 9.81
Thank you, very homogeneous results. Truly Pharaonic :cool:

[Borealis]

Thank you, very homogeneous results. Truly Pharaonic :cool:

Any ancient Egyptian kits?

[Leto]

Any ancient Egyptian kits?
I personally don't have any. Those samples that you know were once uploaded to Ged though.
These days few people care about Ged anyway.

[Borealis]

I personally don't have any. Those samples that you know were once uploaded to Ged though.
These days few people care about Ged anyway.

I'm just saying. You said very pharaonic. I don't know how you can judge that if you don't compare them to ancient Egyptian kits on gedmatch.

[nee4speed111]

Eurogenes K13

1 East_Med 46.07
2 Red_Sea 23.92
3 West_Med 14.73
4 Northeast_African 11.1
5 West_Asian 4.18

Dodecad K12b

1 Caucasus 35.64
2 Southwest_Asian 33.37
3 Atlantic_Med 11.19
4 Northwest_African 9.99
5 East_African 9.81

@Borealis as requested:

K13 Oracle

# Population (source) Distance
1 Egyptian 11.4
2 Yemenite_Jewish 12.41
3 Bedouin 13.53
4 Palestinian 15.68
5 Saudi 15.76
6 Jordanian 16.95
7 Samaritan 18.24
8 Libyan_Jewish 19.45
9 Tunisian_Jewish 20.6
10 Lebanese_Christian 21.1
11 Syrian 21.61
12 Tunisian 23
13 Lebanese_Muslim 23.7
14 Lebanese_Druze 23.88
15 Algerian 24.2
16 Algerian_Jewish 24.5
17 Cyprian 24.86
18 Moroccan 24.87
19 Sephardic_Jewish 25.33
20 Italian_Jewish 25.48

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.5% Yemenite_Jewish + 30.5% Moroccan @ 6.57
2 69.9% Yemenite_Jewish + 30.1% Algerian @ 7.48
3 71.9% Yemenite_Jewish + 28.1% Mozabite_Berber @ 7.49
4 68.9% Yemenite_Jewish + 31.1% Tunisian @ 7.59
5 53.6% Egyptian + 46.4% Yemenite_Jewish @ 7.6
6 83.8% Yemenite_Jewish + 16.2% Sardinian @ 7.84
7 66.8% Yemenite_Jewish + 33.2% Libyan_Jewish @ 8.99
8 73.3% Yemenite_Jewish + 26.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 9.28
9 65.9% Egyptian + 34.1% Saudi @ 9.31
10 90.9% Yemenite_Jewish + 9.1% Ethiopian_Ari_cultivator @ 9.5
11 69.8% Yemenite_Jewish + 30.2% Tunisian_Jewish @ 9.57
12 91.5% Yemenite_Jewish + 8.5% Ethiopian_Gumuz @ 9.58
13 87.7% Yemenite_Jewish + 12.3% Ethiopian_Oromo @ 9.73
14 88.6% Yemenite_Jewish + 11.4% Ethiopian_Wolayta @ 9.74
15 88.4% Yemenite_Jewish + 11.6% Somali @ 9.8
16 91.3% Yemenite_Jewish + 8.7% Hadza @ 9.81
17 75.7% Yemenite_Jewish + 24.3% Italian_Jewish @ 9.85
18 55.2% Yemenite_Jewish + 44.8% Bedouin @ 9.88
19 85.1% Yemenite_Jewish + 14.9% Ethiopian_Tigray @ 9.89
20 81.1% Yemenite_Jewish + 18.9% West_Sicilian @ 9.94

Dodecad K12b Oracle

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Egyptans (Behar) 9.3
2 Palestinian (HGDP) 10.06
3 Jordanians (Behar) 12.7
4 Bedouin (HGDP) 13.71
5 Syrians (Behar) 16.52
6 Samaritians (Behar) 16.81
7 Yemenese (Behar) 17.28
8 Lebanese (Behar) 17.67
9 Druze (HGDP) 21.14
10 Yemen_Jews (Behar) 22.16
11 Iraq_Jews (Behar) 24.44
12 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 24.46
13 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 25.31
14 Cypriots (Behar) 25.57
15 Iranian_Jews (Behar) 27.12
16 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 28.5
17 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 28.69
18 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 29.06
19 Georgia_Jews (Behar) 29.21
20 Assyrian (Dodecad) 29.73

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.1% Egyptans (Behar) + 30.9% Samaritians (Behar) @ 6.12
2 78.9% Samaritians (Behar) + 21.1% Ethiopians (Behar) @ 7.1
3 54.5% Egyptans (Behar) + 45.5% Palestinian (HGDP) @ 7.27
4 78.5% Egyptans (Behar) + 21.5% Yemen_Jews (Behar) @ 7.34
5 79.7% Samaritians (Behar) + 20.3% Ethiopian_Jews (Behar) @ 7.35
6 68.9% Egyptans (Behar) + 31.1% Bedouin (HGDP) @ 7.79
7 79.8% Egyptans (Behar) + 20.2% Druze (HGDP) @ 7.86
8 90.2% Palestinian (HGDP) + 9.8% Ethiopians (Behar) @ 7.9
9 90.6% Palestinian (HGDP) + 9.4% Ethiopian_Jews (Behar) @ 7.94
10 83.3% Samaritians (Behar) + 16.7% Somali (Dodecad) @ 8.04
11 84.2% Egyptans (Behar) + 15.8% Cypriots (Behar) @ 8.11
12 92.7% Palestinian (HGDP) + 7.3% Somali (Dodecad) @ 8.22
13 69.5% Egyptans (Behar) + 30.5% Jordanians (Behar) @ 8.29
14 78.6% Egyptans (Behar) + 21.4% Syrians (Behar) @ 8.47
15 85.8% Egyptans (Behar) + 14.2% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 8.5
16 80.5% Egyptans (Behar) + 19.5% Lebanese (Behar) @ 8.51
17 91.6% Egyptans (Behar) + 8.4% Saudis (Behar) @ 8.67
18 88.2% Egyptans (Behar) + 11.8% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 8.74
19 89% Egyptans (Behar) + 11% Iranian_Jews (Behar) @ 8.75
20 90% Egyptans (Behar) + 10% Assyrian (Dodecad) @ 8.75

[Zanzibar]

Steppe ancestry arrived in Egypt relatively recently, for example I have 0% steppe ancestry


Target: Nee4speed111_scaled
Distance: 3.9581% / 0.03958128
67.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
9.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
8.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
7.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
1.6 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN

Most Copts also have either 0% Steppe or negligible amounts

Target: Coptsudan_scaled
Distance: 3.0482% / 0.03048185
65.8 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
10.6 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.0 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
7.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
5.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
2.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
1.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra



Target: Copt5_scaled
Distance: 3.0891% / 0.03089097
66.4 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
9.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.4 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
7.2 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
6.0 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
2.8 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
0.4 Japan_Jomon_Hunter-Gatherer_JPN_Jomon


Target: Egyptian:Coptic_Egyptian
Distance: 2.5062% / 0.02506225
64.2 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
11.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.4 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
6.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
6.4 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
3.0 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN


Target: Copt4_scaled
Distance: 2.9981% / 0.02998088
64.4 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
11.0 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
10.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
4.8 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
1.0 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN
0.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra



Target: Copt3_scaled
Distance: 3.0344% / 0.03034419
66.0 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
9.6 Levant_Natufian_Hunter-Gatherer_Levant_Natufian
8.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.6 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
5.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
2.2 Morocco_Early_Neolithic_Farmer_MAR_EN

What's the highest amount of Steppe have you seen in an Egyptian and would Muslims have higher Steppe than Copts?

[Alazair]

Also, higher Anatolian in North Africans is due to Iberian neolithic migrations, nothing to do with the Reconquista. Iberian neolithics made it all the way down to the Sahel and northern Nigeria.

They didn't, fulanis got some anatolian-like ancestry because of north africans who reached the Sahel 3k years ago

[Zanzibar]

Its hard to say without ancient DNA from Classical Greece, even the Myceneans have some Steppe admixture although you are correct in that it is significantly less than modern Greeks. But for Copts specifically, we are no more Minoan/Mycenean Greek shifted than Pre-Ptolemaic Egyptian samples.

Here are some models I did in an attempt to gauge to the amount of Greek admixture in North Africans:

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 0.8662% / 0.00866169
51.8 Levant_Sidon_MBA
17.6 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
16.4 Yemenite_Mahra
10.4 Dinka
3.0 GRC_Mycenaean
0.8 Yoruba

Target: Libyan
Distance: 0.8977% / 0.00897715
44.6 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
27.6 Yemenite_Mahra
7.8 GRC_Mycenaean
6.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
5.2 Yoruba
4.8 Dinka
2.0 Levant_Sidon_MBA
1.2 ETH_4500BP

Target: Tunisian
Distance: 0.9897% / 0.00989668
64.6 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
17.8 Yemenite_Mahra
8.2 GRC_Mycenaean
5.8 Yoruba
2.8 ETH_4500BP
0.8 Levant_Sidon_MBA

Target: Algerian
Distance: 1.0267% / 0.01026703
71.8 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
9.0 Yemenite_Mahra
8.8 GRC_Mycenaean
8.2 Yoruba
2.2 ETH_4500BP

Target: Moroccan_North
Distance: 1.3456% / 0.01345610
86.2 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
9.6 GRC_Mycenaean
2.4 Yoruba
1.2 Yemenite_Mahra
0.6 ETH_4500BP


Target: Tunisian_Berber_Matmata
Distance: 0.5416% / 0.00541649
77.6 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
9.0 Yemenite_Mahra
6.4 GRC_Mycenaean
5.4 Yoruba
1.6 ETH_4500BP

Target: Sudanese_Copt
Distance: 2.1633% / 0.02163338
36.2 Levant_Sidon_MBA
32.0 Yemenite_Mahra
18.0 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
6.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
5.8 Dinka
2.0 GRC_Mycenaean


Target: Copt1_scaled
Distance: 3.1071% / 0.03107066
38.8 Yemenite_Mahra
35.8 Levant_Sidon_MBA
18.4 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
4.2 Dinka
2.8 GRC_Mycenaean


Target: Copt2_scaled
Distance: 1.7362% / 0.01736204
53.2 Levant_JOR_EBA
14.4 GRC_Mycenaean
11.4 Yemenite_Mahra
11.0 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
5.6 Dinka
4.4 Levant_Sidon_MBA

Target: Berber_Tunisia_Sen
Distance: 0.8324% / 0.00832365
64.6 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
22.6 Yemenite_Mahra
6.0 GRC_Mycenaean
4.8 Yoruba
2.0 ETH_4500BP

Mozabites, ancient Guanches, Saharawis and Tunisian_Rbaya (they descended from Arab Bedouin tribes) seem to have almost zero to none Greek admixture.

Target: Mozabite
Distance: 0.9701% / 0.00970108
92.2 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
6.2 Yoruba
1.4 Yemenite_Mahra
0.2 ETH_4500BP

Target: Canary_Islands_Guanche
Distance: 1.8822% / 0.01882154
97.0 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
1.8 ETH_4500BP
0.8 Yoruba
0.4 GRC_Mycenaean


Target: Saharawi
Distance: 3.2807% / 0.03280745
88.0 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
6.4 Yoruba
4.2 Dinka
1.4 Yemenite_Mahra


Target: Tunisian_Rbaya
Distance: 1.9067% / 0.01906703
63.8 Yemenite_Mahra
27.4 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
7.4 Yoruba
1.4 Levant_JOR_EBA

[Alazair]

north-west africans don't have greek admixture except maybe libyans, what the system detect is actually additional iberian/italian ancestry which isn't much different from the mainland greek profile.

[Zanzibar]

north-west africans don't have greek admixture except maybe libyans, what the system detect is actually additional iberian/italian ancestry which isn't much different from the mainland greek profile.

How about Egyptian Muslims and Copts? Do they have minor Greek input?

[Alazair]

How about Egyptian Muslims and Copts? Do they have minor Greek input?

yes I suppose that's possible especially the ones from the delta area

[Borealis]

How about Egyptian Muslims and Copts? Do they have minor Greek input?

I think it's possible that some Greek input was transferred to Egyptian Muslims via their Levantine ancestry, but it would be very minor in that case. As for Copts, I just can't see it if they fail to even score Iron_Age Levantine on G25, how it could be possible for them to have ancestry from a much more ANF rich source like ancient Greeks. I don't think it's likely at all.

[Zanzibar]

north-west africans don't have greek admixture except maybe libyans, what the system detect is actually additional iberian/italian ancestry which isn't much different from the mainland greek profile.

Libya used to be a Greek colony before?

Where does this extra Iberian/Italian ancestry comes from in Maghrebis? Trade and slaves from Barbary pirates?

[Zanzibar]

I think it's possible that some Greek input was transferred to Egyptian Muslims via their Levantine ancestry, but it would be very minor in that case. As for Copts, I just can't see it if they fail to even score Iron_Age Levantine on G25, how it could be possible for them to have ancestry from a much more ANF rich source like ancient Greeks. I don't think it's likely at all.

It would be Bronze Age Mycenaean or Hellenistic Greek input into Egyptians?

But didn't Greeks have a lot of influence in ancient Egypt? Shouldn't there be some direct gene flow even if its minor?

What do you think is the minor "Mycenaean" that the Copts are scoring in the above run if its not Greek in your opinion?

[Borealis]

It would be Bronze Age Mycenaean or Hellenistic Greek input into Egyptians?

But didn't Greeks have a lot of influence in ancient Egypt? Shouldn't there be some direct gene flow even if its minor?

What do you think is the minor "Mycenaean" that the Copts are scoring in the above run if its not Greek in your opinion?

Could be either, or neither.

In the case of Copts, it might be real Mycenean ancestry or just noise. It's just not enough for us to really decide if it's genuine or not. But Myceneans were a lot more west asian shifted than Hellenistic Greeks anyway. They had an impact on the Levant so it might've been the case for Egypt and North Africa too. This would be a better question to ask on Anthrogenica as they are far more knowledgeable about the archaeogenetics of this part of the world(Egypt/Levant/Greece).

[Petalpusher]

It's not strange, anything west of Egypt has more EEF, which is characterized by more WHG, and everything to East Egypt has more steppe (still minor), like Turkey, Syria, Iran etc.. EEF rotated counterclockwise in their expansion through Europe, then came back around in NA but it's also decreasing from west to east in NA, so Egypt is some sort of low point for these 2 influences. Steppe is much lower than the models in the op suggest also.

[XenophobicPrussian]

They didn't, fulanis got some anatolian-like ancestry because of north africans who reached the Sahel 3k years ago
and where did North West Africans get Anatolian-like from? I didn't say pure Iberian neolithics reached the Sahel unmixed.

[Alazair]

Libya used to be a Greek colony before?

Where does this extra Iberian/Italian ancestry comes from in Maghrebis? Trade and slaves from Barbary pirates?

Eastern libya was indeed colonized by greeks (from Thêra mostly if I remember correctly) during the classical and hellenistic era. From the Data we have, many of them actually mixed with local berber women so I wouldn't be surprised if such element can still be detected in the area today.

As for iberian/italian ancestry that's more difficult to establish which migrations brought it : could be roman presence even though roman colonists/veterans weren't that numerous, most probably morisco ancestry from the late XVIth and early XVIIth century AD, could be mediated by jewish ancestry too and if I'm not mistaken there was also very recent migrations of Italians to tunisia during the XIXth but I've heard both communities stayed quite separated from each other.

Of course influence from sicily/Italy/iberia are even older than this but I doubt they'd left any substantial influence on the current tunisian population (for example steppe ancestry can only be explained by these chalcolithic/bronze age migrations of bell beaker settlers )

[Alazair]

and where did North West Africans get Anatolian-like from? I didn't say pure Iberian neolithics reached the Sahel unmixed.

ok I thought you were implying EEF migrated there lol

[Zanzibar]

Eastern libya was indeed colonized by greeks (from Thêra mostly if I remember correctly) during the classical and hellenistic era. From the Data we have, many of them actually mixed with local berber women so I wouldn't be surprised if such element can still be detected in the area today.

As for iberian/italian ancestry that's more difficult to establish which migrations brought it : could be roman presence even though roman colonists/veterans weren't that numerous, most probably morisco ancestry from the late XVIth and early XVIIth century AD, could be mediated by jewish ancestry too and if I'm not mistaken there was also very recent migrations of Italians to tunisia during the XIXth but I've heard both communities stayed quite separated from each other.

Of course influence from sicily/Italy/iberia are even older than this but I doubt they'd left any substantial influence on the current tunisian population (for example steppe ancestry can only be explained by these chalcolithic/bronze age migrations of bell beaker settlers )

i see. Thank you for the long and detailed answer.

The Caïd Essebsi family of Tunisia which the former president of Tunisia hailed from also has recent Italian ancestry?

[Alazair]

i see. Thank you for the long and detailed answer.

The Caïd Essebsi family of Tunisia which the former president of Tunisia hailed from also has recent Italian ancestry?

Apparently he has some distant sardinian ancestors but such cases are very rare and are obviously not representative of any important migration