Do Arabians have very minor Steppe ancestry?

[Zanzibar]

I notice the Steppe in Arabian populations doesn't show up when using Levant_Natufian and Levant_JOR_EBA, but when I utilize Yemenite_Mahra who are supposedly the purest Arabians (correct me if I am wrong) to represent the Arabian component, many other Yemenis, Saudis and Bedouins start showing very low almost negligible amounts of Steppe ancestry like around 1-2%.

The BedouinA was a Levantine Bedouin pop, I just posted them to compare with other Bedouins and Peninsular Arabs.
https://i.imgur.com/A4YR9vT.png

I then try another run which is replacing the Yemenite_Mahra with Proto_Natufian_(simulated) and ANA_simulated (Ancient_North_African, the African side of Iberomaurusian). I also include IRN_Seh_Gabi_C to improve the fits and here are the results:

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 3.8943% / 0.03894269
55.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
18.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
10.6 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.4 ANA_(simulated)
3.0 Levant_PPNB
2.8 Yoruba
1.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra


Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.0140% / 0.04013982
57.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
19.2 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
12.0 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.4 ANA_(simulated)
2.0 Yoruba
1.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra


Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 2.8624% / 0.02862436
48.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
16.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.4 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
11.0 Levant_PPNB
7.0 ANA_(simulated)
3.2 Yoruba
1.6 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
0.4 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.6000% / 0.03600036
52.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
15.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
13.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.6 Levant_PPNB
7.4 ANA_(simulated)
2.2 Yoruba
0.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra


Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 2.4923% / 0.02492285
40.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
22.6 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
13.6 Levant_PPNB
11.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
6.2 ANA_(simulated)
3.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
2.8 Yoruba

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 2.5865% / 0.02586505
48.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
34.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
7.6 ANA_(simulated)
3.4 Yoruba
2.2 Levant_PPNB
1.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
1.0 Dinka


Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.3348% / 0.03334834
52.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
33.4 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
7.4 ANA_(simulated)
3.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.6 Yoruba
1.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra


Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.1689% / 0.03168887
50.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
28.6 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
7.4 ANA_(simulated)
5.8 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.2 Levant_PPNB
2.4 Yoruba
0.6 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 3.3103% / 0.03310266
58.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
22.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.0 Levant_PPNB
8.8 ANA_(simulated)
1.2 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
0.4 Yoruba

Individual samples show even more Steppe among each Peninsular Arab groups. Btw I decided to replace Dinka and Yoruba with older and ancient Negroids such as COG_Kindoki_230BP (West-Central African Bantu Farmer), Kakapel_300BP (Bantu) and Kakapel_900BP (Nilotic Pastoralist) and ETH_4500BP (Mota Hunter Gatherer from Ethiopia) to see if it will affect the Steppe score even a bit.

https://i.imgur.com/kwhDkJB.png

Yemenis from Amran seem to have the most Steppe both in average and individual levels and Mahras the least (most of the Mahras seem to lack it). Even Saudis and Yemeni Jews have more Steppe than Mahras. Heck, there were two Amran samples who score 6.2-7.2%, one Dhamar sample who is 5.2% and one Yemenite Jew who is 5%, that's Lebanese Christian average level of Steppe (5-7%).

What's funny is how the amount of Yamnaya per individual seems to really varied even among groups such as Yemeni Jews and Amranis, some have around 5% while other individuals have close to zero to literally none.

Btw here are the coordinates for the last model:



Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra,0.1255849,0.089028,0.0426986,0.1153479,-0.0287232,0.0450564,0.0036033,-0.0025642,-0.0559032,-0.0728943,0.0018222,3.32e-05,-0.0026924,-0.0233041,0.0366141,0.0157633,-0.0012316,-0.0017879,-0.0038408,0.0137704,-0.0031749,0.0007557,0.0110649,0.0186102,-0.004537
ANA_(simulated),-0.571392,-0.027419,0.013576,0.009855,0.040623,-0.015523,-0.162235,0.067998,0.243042,0.002005,-0.000784,-0.041239,0.081441,-0.148149,0.15178,-0.082206,0.072689,-0.168241,-0.366474,0.042,-0.114965,-0.336542,0.211801,-0.030807,0.023369
Proto-Natufian_(simulated),0.154549,0.185486,-0.045424,-0.181721,0.03489,-0.100323,0.001981,-0.039605,0.09774,0.004875,0.044136,-0.019354,0.081207,0.037592,-0.017759,0.025542,-0.036934,0.037069,0.054803,0.04523,0.025848,0.0795 25,-0.051595,0.007188,0.001536
Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N,0.0430252,0 .0664158,-0.1550722,0.0047158,-0.122669,0.0235384,0.017109,-0.0011998,-0.082546,-0.0544158,-0.0028258,-0.0016186,0.0044896,-0.0062756,0.0316498,0.0561384,-0.0054242,0.0068664,0.0136508,-0.0334162,0.00856,-0.028836,-0.0110678,-0.039331,0.0222254
Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG,0.091058,0.102568,-0.083344,-0.00323,-0.08617,0.020638,0.024911,-0.001846,-0.128236,-0.074717,-0.006333,0.023979,-0.054856,0.004404,0.026601,-0.03275,0.02386,-0.013429,-0.022249,0.034767,0.033815,-0.007048,0.006532,-0.025787,-0.002036
Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N,0.1175998,0 .180118,0.0035312,-0.101158,0.0510443,-0.0483875,-0.0043582,-0.0069334,0.0362287,0.0807473,0.0079718,0.0118803,-0.0234545,0.0004691,-0.0419807,-0.0101913,0.0233091,0.0019866,0.0136954,-0.0097489,-0.0142249,0.0057723,-0.0041232,-0.0031658,-0.0043437
ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso,0.1225497,0.1120467,0.2 008793,0.2048907,0.1728527,0.0618207,0.0160593,0.0 412293,0.108602,0.0271533,-0.0193243,-0.0143373,0.0162043,-0.0086703,0.0708007,0.069035,0.0002173,0.0120353,-0.0099303,0.0637807,0.118,0.0113347,-0.0608843,-0.1971763,0.021994
ETH_4500BP,-0.511066,0.043668,0.000754,0.000969,-0.00277,-0.011435,0.050997,-0.045229,0.089172,-0.087838,-0.012991,-0.002997,-0.031219,0.000688,0.02158,-0.029965,0.027772,0.039273,0.00176,-0.009004,0.000374,0.006183,-0.003451,-0.00241,-0.000838
Levant_PPNB,0.072847,0.1639064,-0.0316026,-0.1361132,0.0332986,-0.0645352,-0.0134426,-0.0147684,0.0741604,0.03601,0.0188046,-0.0150764,0.035738,0.0025596,-0.0217696,0.006099,0.0098048,-0.0013176,-0.0047264,0.0188088,-0.001797,0.0071472,0.0008872,-0.0056874,-0.0037602
IRN_Seh_Gabi_C,0.0799038,0.1186138,-0.1042362,-0.054264,-0.067151,-0.0124944,0.005499,-0.0086302,-0.0478176,-0.0168748,0.0024684,0.0005096,-0.001427,-0.0011558,0.0034204,0.0170244,-0.0028684,0.0046622,0.0082206,-0.014682,0.0070626,-0.005787,-0.0015282,-0.0162432,0.0072566
Dinka,-0.577083,0.0507765,-0.0003773,-0.0075098,-0.0053855,-0.0016735,-0.0176848,0.0204222,0.081145,-0.0969495,-0.02107,0.022742,-0.0383172,-0.0011698,0.0101452,-0.021347,0.0186125,-0.0094382,0.0241968,-0.0241678,0.002402,0.003308,0.001479,0.0009038,0.0 096995
COG_Kindoki_230BP,-0.6231815,0.058393,0.019422,0.018088,0.0007695,0.0 133865,-0.007168,0.0170765,-0.035587,0.017495,0.0048715,-0.002248,-0.0031215,-0.0052985,-0.0021715,0.0088835,-0.0058675,-0.004941,-0.0042735,0.0078785,0.0061765,-0.0012985,0.002465,-0.0030125,0.0029935
KEN_Kakapel_300BP,-0.583913,0.055854,0.011314,0.010659,-0.000308,0.007809,-0.013396,0.018922,0.00225,-0.025695,-0.016401,0.014237,-0.0278,-0.003441,-0.035152,0.026651,-0.011083,-0.002787,-0.016466,0.002251,0.00025,-0.005441,0.007148,0.008073,-0.002634
KEN_Kakapel_900BP,-0.513342,0.05687,-0.010936,-0.00969,-0.007386,-0.013666,-0.00658,0.014769,0.075674,-0.113898,-0.032478,0.028924,-0.049207,-0.010046,0.015065,-0.020419,0.018645,-0.000507,0.022877,-0.027138,-0.002496,0.007172,-0.027238,-0.000241,0.004071
Yoruba,-0.6300625,0.0625011,0.022113,0.0167079,0.0005035,0 .0124741,-0.044417,0.0477673,-0.0488813,0.0327694,0.0046205,0.0007904,0.0230561, 0.0009509,0.0125232,-0.0096067,0.0070763,0.0004491,0.006022,-0.00299,0.0015542,0.0023156,-0.0017592,-0.0004711,-0.0004246

[Zanzibar]

Before this, I thought native Peninsular Arabs including Saudis and Yemenis would be the one of the only West Asian-North African group besides Samaritans, Georgians (surprisingly despite their close geographical proximity to the Pontic Caspian Steppe), Trabzon Turks, Hemsheni Armenians and Egyptians to have negligible noise level to literally zero steppe.

I thought this is because the vast desert landscapes of Arabia acting as a geographical barrier against Indo-European incursions from the north, but now after running out these models, it seems they also have minor Steppe input which really surprises me. The only exception seems to be Mahras who genetically seem even more isolated and endogamous compared to other Arabians.

[Kyp]

they do have some r1a clades

[Zanzibar]

they do have some r1a clades

Are you referring to Saudis or Yemenis?

Well it does look like many Arabians do have very minor Steppe. I used to think they lack Steppe but it seems they also have some in very small amounts.

[mashail]

My mum is half Iraqi Bedouin and half Egyptian she's 4% steppe
https://imgur.com/2Lkq2CR

[mashail]

Are you referring to Saudis or Yemenis?

Well it does look like many Arabians do have very minor Steppe. I used to think they lack Steppe but it seems they also have some in very small amounts.

R1a in West Asia is the highest among Bedouin in Kuwait more than 40% its higher than Iran.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a#Asia

R1a1a has been found in various forms, in most parts of Western Asia, in widely varying concentrations, from almost no presence in areas such as Jordan, to much higher levels in parts of Kuwait and Iran. The Shimar (Shammar) Bedouin tribe in Kuwait show the highest frequency in the Middle East at 43%.

Wells 2001, noted that in the western part of the country, Iranians show low R1a1a levels, while males of eastern parts of Iran carried up to 35% R1a1a. Nasidze et al. 2004 found R1a1a in approximately 20% of Iranian males from the cities of Tehran and Isfahan. Regueiro 2006 in a study of Iran, noted much higher frequencies in the south than the north.

[Zanzibar]

My mum is half Iraqi Bedouin and half Egyptian she's 4% steppe
https://imgur.com/2Lkq2CR

The Steppe could be either from the Bedouin or Egyptian side imo.

[Zanzibar]

R1a in West Asia is the highest among Bedouin in Kuwait more than 40% its higher than Iran.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a#Asia

R1a1a has been found in various forms, in most parts of Western Asia, in widely varying concentrations, from almost no presence in areas such as Jordan, to much higher levels in parts of Kuwait and Iran. The Shimar (Shammar) Bedouin tribe in Kuwait show the highest frequency in the Middle East at 43%.

Wells 2001, noted that in the western part of the country, Iranians show low R1a1a levels, while males of eastern parts of Iran carried up to 35% R1a1a. Nasidze et al. 2004 found R1a1a in approximately 20% of Iranian males from the cities of Tehran and Isfahan. Regueiro 2006 in a study of Iran, noted much higher frequencies in the south than the north.

It's interesting because Iranians have much higher Steppe than Bedouins despite the latter possessing a lot of R1a.

Btw its look like the West Asia-North Africa groups that have very negligible levels to literally zero Steppe are Western Georgians, Hemsheni Armenians, Trabzon Turks, Samaritans, Peninsular Arabians especially the Mahras and Egyptians.

Are you surprised that some Yemeni Amranis and one Yemeni Dhamar in the run above were around 6-7% Steppe? That's very high for Arabia imo.

[mashail]

The Steppe could be either from the Bedouin or Egyptian side imo.
Egyptians are 0% steppe but the Iraqi Bedouins do have some steppe.

[Leto]

1-3% Steppe in Arabia is literally a nothing burger. Don't understand why it's so surprising. After all, Arabia is in proximity to Iran, Iraq and even Pakistan is not that far off.

[Leto]

My mum is half Iraqi Bedouin and half Egyptian she's 4% steppe
https://imgur.com/2Lkq2CR
Didn't you claim you could pass as white? :swl

[mashail]

It's interesting because Iranians have much higher Steppe than Bedouins despite the latter possessing a lot of R1a.

Btw its look like the West Asia-North Africa groups that have very negligible levels to literally zero Steppe are Western Georgians, Hemsheni Armenians, Trabzon Turks, Samaritans, Peninsular Arabians especially the Mahras and Egyptians.

Are you surprised that some Yemeni Amranis and one Yemeni Dhamar in the run above were around 6-7% Steppe? That's very high for Arabia imo.
TBH I'm very surprised that Yemenis and saudis score some steppe since they are very isolated ppl !!!!

[mashail]

It's interesting because Iranians have much higher Steppe than Bedouins despite the latter possessing a lot of R1a.

Btw its look like the West Asia-North Africa groups that have very negligible levels to literally zero Steppe are Western Georgians, Hemsheni Armenians, Trabzon Turks, Samaritans, Peninsular Arabians especially the Mahras and Egyptians.

Are you surprised that some Yemeni Amranis and one Yemeni Dhamar in the run above were around 6-7% Steppe? That's very high for Arabia imo.
TBH I'm very surprised that Yemenis and saudis score some steppe since they are very isolated ppl !!!!

[mashail]

Didn't you claim you could pass as white? :swl
lol, I have white skin and brown hair i am a white skinned middle eastern not white\European XD.

[mashail]

..

[Leto]

lol, I have white skin and brown hair i am a white skinned middle eastern not white\European XD.
I'd like to see your photo. ;)

[Zanzibar]

Egyptians are 0% steppe but the Iraqi Bedouins do have some steppe.

Egyptians actually have some depending on the calculator runs:

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 2.3492% / 0.02349236
62.8 Levant_Neolithic_Farmer_Levant_PPNB
13.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.8 Nilotic_Pastoralist_KEN_Kakapel_900BP
4.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
3.8 Caucasus_Hunter-Gatherer_GEO_CHG
3.8 West_Africa-Bantu_Farmer_COG_Kindoki_230BP


Target: Egyptian
Distance: 1.8130% / 0.01813018
33.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
26.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
18.8 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
8.0 Dinka
6.8 ANA_(simulated)
3.8 Yoruba
2.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra

[Zanzibar]

1-3% Steppe in Arabia is literally a nothing burger. Don't understand why it's so surprising. After all, Arabia is in proximity to Iran, Iraq and even Pakistan is not that far off.

Well some Yemeni Amran, Dhamar and Jew individuals were scoring in the 5-7% range which is pretty significant for the region. That's average Lebanese Christian level of steppe. You are right regarding the geographical proximity of Arabia to neighboring regions.

Target: Yemenite_Amran:Y519
Distance: 2.9158% / 0.02915813
46.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
33.2 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
7.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
6.6 ANA_(simulated)
4.0 Yoruba
2.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.4 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Amran:Y540
Distance: 2.8625% / 0.02862513
48.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.6 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
8.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.6 ANA_(simulated)
6.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
2.8 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Amran:Y544
Distance: 3.5974% / 0.03597362
46.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
34.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
7.2 ANA_(simulated)
5.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
2.8 Yoruba
1.6 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.6 ETH_4500BP
0.4 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y037
Distance: 3.5466% / 0.03546650
49.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
28.6 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
7.2 ANA_(simulated)
7.0 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
2.8 Yoruba

Target: Yemenite_Jew:YemeniteJew4960
Distance: 3.7142% / 0.03714195
50.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
31.2 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
8.6 ANA_(simulated)
5.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
3.6 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.4 Dinka

[Zanzibar]

TBH I'm very surprised that Yemenis and saudis score some steppe since they are very isolated ppl !!!!

Yes I was surprised as well as I thought the vast desert endless landscape of Arabia would prevent Steppe gene flow from entering the region. Yemenis from Amran seem to have the most Steppe followed by those from Al Bayda.

[Kyp]

R1a in West Asia is the highest among Bedouin in Kuwait more than 40% its higher than Iran.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a#Asia

R1a1a has been found in various forms, in most parts of Western Asia, in widely varying concentrations, from almost no presence in areas such as Jordan, to much higher levels in parts of Kuwait and Iran. The Shimar (Shammar) Bedouin tribe in Kuwait show the highest frequency in the Middle East at 43%.

Wells 2001, noted that in the western part of the country, Iranians show low R1a1a levels, while males of eastern parts of Iran carried up to 35% R1a1a. Nasidze et al. 2004 found R1a1a in approximately 20% of Iranian males from the cities of Tehran and Isfahan. Regueiro 2006 in a study of Iran, noted much higher frequencies in the south than the north.

Thats one tribe.. Could be easily a founder effect

[Zoro]

Before this, I thought native Peninsular Arabs including Saudis and Yemenis would be the one of the only West Asian-North African group besides Samaritans, Georgians (surprisingly despite their close geographical proximity to the Pontic Caspian Steppe), Trabzon Turks, Hemsheni Armenians and Egyptians to have negligible noise level to literally zero steppe.

Impossible. There’s a 0% chance that Armenians, Georgians, and Trabazon Turks have been totally isolated from their neighbors for the last 4000 years. You would need a ton of evidence to show that these populations haven’t mixed with their neighbors. G25 certainly doesn’t qualify as such.

Also remember that Saudis of today are not the Saudis of 3000 years ago. Oil has done wonders in attracting people from Central, South and West Asia into Arabia over the past 100 years. This has introduced all sorts of non native haplogroups and admixture into the Saudi gene pool.

[Zoro]

R1a in West Asia is the highest among Bedouin in Kuwait more than 40% its higher than Iran.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_R1a#Asia

R1a1a has been found in various forms, in most parts of Western Asia, in widely varying concentrations, from almost no presence in areas such as Jordan, to much higher levels in parts of Kuwait and Iran. The Shimar (Shammar) Bedouin tribe in Kuwait show the highest frequency in the Middle East at 43%.

Wells 2001, noted that in the western part of the country, Iranians show low R1a1a levels, while males of eastern parts of Iran carried up to 35% R1a1a. Nasidze et al. 2004 found R1a1a in approximately 20% of Iranian males from the cities of Tehran and Isfahan. Regueiro 2006 in a study of Iran, noted much higher frequencies in the south than the north.

Kuwaitis have mixed with Arabs who have mixed with Bakoch and S. Asians not to mention Persians

[Borealis]

Well some Yemeni Amran, Dhamar and Jew individuals were scoring in the 5-7% range which is pretty significant for the region. That's average Lebanese Christian level of steppe. You are right regarding the geographical proximity of Arabia to neighboring regions.

Target: Yemenite_Amran:Y519
Distance: 2.9158% / 0.02915813
46.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
33.2 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
7.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
6.6 ANA_(simulated)
4.0 Yoruba
2.2 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.4 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Amran:Y540
Distance: 2.8625% / 0.02862513
48.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.6 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
8.4 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.6 ANA_(simulated)
6.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
2.8 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Amran:Y544
Distance: 3.5974% / 0.03597362
46.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
34.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
7.2 ANA_(simulated)
5.8 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
2.8 Yoruba
1.6 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.6 ETH_4500BP
0.4 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y037
Distance: 3.5466% / 0.03546650
49.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
28.6 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
7.2 ANA_(simulated)
7.0 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.2 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
2.8 Yoruba

Target: Yemenite_Jew:YemeniteJew4960
Distance: 3.7142% / 0.03714195
50.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
31.2 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
8.6 ANA_(simulated)
5.0 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
3.6 Iran_Neolithic_Farmer_IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.4 Dinka

The problem seems to lie with the fact that you are using simulations. There are already legitimate samples for Natufians and ANA(Taforalt is Iberomaurisian which contains ANA). You don't need to make simulations for those. The problem with G25 simulations is that while they can help bring a better fit, they are usually imperfect and create weird shifts in certain directions. In thise case it's probably causing the Yemenites to take in steppe when they otherwise shouldn't(or only a noise level). Let me demonstrate with proper samples:

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 5.1837% / 0.05183688
58.8 Levant_Natufian
25.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
15.4 Levant_PPNC

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 4.5541% / 0.04554080
48.6 Levant_Natufian
31.0 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
20.4 Levant_PPNC

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 4.9745% / 0.04974469
46.8 Levant_Natufian
33.0 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
20.2 Levant_PPNC

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 3.9429% / 0.03942943
46.0 Levant_Natufian
32.0 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
20.0 Levant_PPNC
2.0 ETH_4500BP

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 3.6153% / 0.03615322
42.2 Levant_Natufian
34.4 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
19.6 Levant_PPNC
2.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
1.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 ETH_4500BP

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 5.0915% / 0.05091510
50.6 Levant_Natufian
29.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
19.6 Levant_PPNC

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 4.1763% / 0.04176294
50.8 Levant_Natufian
26.4 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
18.0 Levant_PPNC
4.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 ETH_4500BP

See, no/noise level steppe.

[Zanzibar]

The problem seems to lie with the fact that you are using simulations. There are already legitimate samples for Natufians and ANA(Taforalt is Iberomaurisian which contains ANA). You don't need to make simulations for those. The problem with G25 simulations is that while they can help bring a better fit, they are usually imperfect and create weird shifts in certain directions. In thise case it's probably causing the Yemenites to take in steppe when they otherwise shouldn't(or only a noise level). Let me demonstrate with proper samples:

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 5.1837% / 0.05183688
58.8 Levant_Natufian
25.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
15.4 Levant_PPNC

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 4.5541% / 0.04554080
48.6 Levant_Natufian
31.0 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
20.4 Levant_PPNC

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 4.9745% / 0.04974469
46.8 Levant_Natufian
33.0 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
20.2 Levant_PPNC

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 3.9429% / 0.03942943
46.0 Levant_Natufian
32.0 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
20.0 Levant_PPNC
2.0 ETH_4500BP

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 3.6153% / 0.03615322
42.2 Levant_Natufian
34.4 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
19.6 Levant_PPNC
2.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
1.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 ETH_4500BP

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 5.0915% / 0.05091510
50.6 Levant_Natufian
29.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
19.6 Levant_PPNC

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 4.1763% / 0.04176294
50.8 Levant_Natufian
26.4 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
18.0 Levant_PPNC
4.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.8 ETH_4500BP

See, no/noise level steppe.

I thought the reason for these simulations is to estimate the amount of ANA admixture in Natufians and Taforalt by separating them from the two components? Btw I got these simulations from here (httphttps://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19294-Is-there-really-Basal-Eurasian-and-or-Iranian-Caucasus-related-ancestry-in-Anatolia&p=705050&viewfull=1#post705050). Many people have also been using them on Anthrogenica to measure the amount of ANA blood in these ancients.

Doesn't Levant_Natufian hide the African blood (ANA) in Yemenis and other Arabians? That's why I think using these simulations are better. I feel like Natufian is absorbing additional SSA ancestry in Yemenis and Saudis since Natufian is Iberomaurusian (which contains ANA which is African) + Anatolian_N from what I learnt in Anthrogenica. They tend to score SSA/Negroid in older calculators. If I don't use the simulators, this is what I get:

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 3.7747% / 0.03774687
72.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
25.6 Levant_Natufian
2.4 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP

Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.2354% / 0.04235423
76.4 Levant_JOR_EBA
21.8 Levant_Natufian
1.8 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 3.3354% / 0.03335449
76.4 Levant_JOR_EBA
18.8 Levant_Natufian
4.0 Dinka
0.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.2 ETH_4500BP

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.8947% / 0.03894683
76.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
21.0 Levant_Natufian
2.2 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 2.8331% / 0.02833050
83.6 Levant_JOR_EBA
9.0 Levant_Natufian
3.8 Dinka
3.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.4 ETH_4500BP

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 2.8590% / 0.02858991
79.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
15.8 Levant_Natufian
4.8 Dinka
0.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.8823% / 0.03882316
82.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
14.8 Levant_Natufian
2.4 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.4558% / 0.03455781
79.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
17.8 Levant_Natufian
3.2 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 4.0399% / 0.04039943
65.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
35.0 Levant_Natufian

Anyway it looks Yemenites from Amran are the most Northern-shifted (Steppe) even if there IE blood is very tiny level. So I believe you are right. Other groups that literally noise to completely lack Steppe in the MENA region are Western Georgians, Samaritans, Hemsheni Armenians, Trabzon Turks and Egyptians?

[E1b1b]

I’m from Iraq here are my results.

Target: 7.62x39_scaled
Distance: 5.8782% / 0.05878161
53.4 Pontic_Steppe_Yamnaya_Pastoralist_Yamnaya_RUS_Sama ra
34.6 Anatolia_Neolithic_Farmer_TUR_Barcin_N
10.6 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso
1.0 Levant_PPNB
0.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)

[Borealis]

I thought the reason for these simulations is to estimate the amount of ANA admixture in Natufians and Taforalt by separating them from the two components? Btw I got these simulations from here (httphttps://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19294-Is-there-really-Basal-Eurasian-and-or-Iranian-Caucasus-related-ancestry-in-Anatolia&p=705050&viewfull=1#post705050). Many people have also been using them on Anthrogenica to measure the amount of ANA blood in these ancients.

Doesn't Levant_Natufian hide the African blood (ANA) in Yemenis and other Arabians? That's why I think using these simulations are better. They tend to score SSA/Negroid in older calculators.

Anyway it looks Yemenites from Amran are the most Northern-shifted (Steppe) even if there IE blood is very tiny level. So I believe you are right. Other groups that literally noise to completely lack Steppe in the MENA region are Western Georgians, Samaritans, Hemsheni Armenians, Trabzon Turks and Egyptians?

Yes, that is a valid reason that someone might want to break Natufian and Iberomarusian up, that is to separate the west asian and SSA components within those two. However, there is always a drawback with the simulations. I don't believe steppe ancestry reached Arabia aside from the Khaleej(Gulf) where the people came into contact with Persians and South Asians, and even then it's probably quite minor.

Not entirely sure about Egyptians but most of those groups that you mentioned while lacking proper Indo-Iranian ancestry still have a lot of ANE so they're not comparable to say Yemenites and Samaritans who are very ANE depressed.

[Zanzibar]

Yes, that is a valid reason that someone might want to break Natufian and Iberomarusian up, that is to separate the west asian and SSA components within those two. However, there is always a drawback with the simulations. I don't believe steppe ancestry reached Arabia aside from the Khaleej(Gulf) where the people came into contact with Persians and South Asians, and even then it's probably quite minor.

Not entirely sure about Egyptians but most of those groups that you mentioned while lacking proper Indo-Iranian ancestry still have a lot of ANE so they're not comparable to say Yemenites and Samaritans who are very ANE depressed.

I see. By drawback, you are referring to the simulations creating weird shifts and giving strange results inconsistent with other calculators? I feel like Natufian is absorbing additional SSA ancestry in Yemenis and Saudis since Natufian is Iberomaurusian (which contains ANA which is African) + Anatolian_N from what I learnt in Anthrogenica. They tend to score SSA/Negroid in older calculators. If I don't use the simulators, this is what I get:

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 3.7747% / 0.03774687
72.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
25.6 Levant_Natufian
2.4 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP

Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.2354% / 0.04235423
76.4 Levant_JOR_EBA
21.8 Levant_Natufian
1.8 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 3.3354% / 0.03335449
76.4 Levant_JOR_EBA
18.8 Levant_Natufian
4.0 Dinka
0.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.2 ETH_4500BP

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.8947% / 0.03894683
76.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
21.0 Levant_Natufian
2.2 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 2.8331% / 0.02833050
83.6 Levant_JOR_EBA
9.0 Levant_Natufian
3.8 Dinka
3.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.4 ETH_4500BP

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 2.8590% / 0.02858991
79.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
15.8 Levant_Natufian
4.8 Dinka
0.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.8823% / 0.03882316
82.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
14.8 Levant_Natufian
2.4 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.4558% / 0.03455781
79.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
17.8 Levant_Natufian
3.2 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 4.0399% / 0.04039943
65.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
35.0 Levant_Natufian

Seems like most Yemenis and other Peninsular Arabs do have Negroid (mainly Dinka) even if it is very minor. When using those simulated coordinates (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19294-Is-there-really-Basal-Eurasian-and-or-Iranian-Caucasus-related-ancestry-in-Anatolia&p=705050&viewfull=1#post705050) though, it looks like they also have a second layer of African blood that is ANA besides the Nilo-Saharan (or in some cases Bantu) admixture.

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 4.1984% / 0.04198404
60.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.2 ANA_(simulated)
4.0 TUR_Barcin_N
2.4 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP


Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.3350% / 0.04334959
61.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.2 ANA_(simulated)
2.8 TUR_Barcin_N
0.8 Dinka


Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 3.1301% / 0.03130143
55.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.4 ANA_(simulated)
7.0 TUR_Barcin_N
3.0 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP


Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.9048% / 0.03904784
58.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.6 ANA_(simulated)
6.8 TUR_Barcin_N
1.6 Dinka


Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 3.0676% / 0.03067559
48.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
28.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.6 TUR_Barcin_N
7.6 ANA_(simulated)
2.2 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 3.2726% / 0.03272626
52.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
25.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.6 TUR_Barcin_N
8.2 ANA_(simulated)
3.6 Dinka


Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.9476% / 0.03947637
56.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.0 TUR_Barcin_N
7.8 ANA_(simulated)
1.8 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.6420% / 0.03642035
55.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.2 TUR_Barcin_N
8.0 ANA_(simulated)
2.6 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 3.3916% / 0.03391639
64.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.0 ANA_(simulated)
1.4 TUR_Barcin_N


And it looks like the SSA blood in Yemenis, Saudis and other Arabians come from Cushitic/Horner ancestry?

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 3.7188% / 0.03718807
67.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
24.6 Levant_Natufian
5.4 Ethiopian_Amhara
2.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.1158% / 0.04115752
69.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
24.6 Levant_Natufian
3.2 Ethiopian_Amhara
3.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 2.9585% / 0.02958466
64.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
22.0 Levant_Natufian
7.8 Ethiopian_Amhara
5.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.7606% / 0.03760618
72.6 Levant_JOR_EBA
20.4 Levant_Natufian
5.2 Ethiopian_Amhara
1.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 2.3639% / 0.02363855
73.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
11.4 Levant_Natufian
7.8 Ethiopian_Amhara
7.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 2.5665% / 0.02566545
72.2 Levant_JOR_EBA
14.2 Levant_Natufian
10.6 Ethiopian_Amhara
3.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.7325% / 0.03732538
76.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
15.4 Levant_Natufian
5.2 Ethiopian_Amhara
2.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.2867% / 0.03286711
75.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
16.0 Levant_Natufian
7.4 Ethiopian_Amhara
1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 3.9510% / 0.03950985
58.2 Levant_JOR_EBA
38.4 Levant_Natufian
3.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

I see. I did some runs on Egyptians and they seem to have very minor IE, its less than Maghrebis and Levantines but more than most Arabs of the Peninsula. True those groups still have loads of ANE. Do you why Samaritans seem to have noise to literally lacking Steppe unlike most Levantines? Endogamy and refusal to intermarry with invading Greeks, Persians, Assyrians and other outsiders in the Levant?

[Borealis]

I see. By drawback, you are referring to the simulations creating weird shifts and giving strange results inconsistent with other calculators? I feel like Natufian is absorbing additional SSA ancestry in Yemenis and Saudis since Natufian is Iberomaurusian (which contains ANA which is African) + Anatolian_N from what I learnt in Anthrogenica. They tend to score SSA/Negroid in older calculators. If I don't use the simulators, this is what I get:

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 3.7747% / 0.03774687
72.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
25.6 Levant_Natufian
2.4 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP

Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.2354% / 0.04235423
76.4 Levant_JOR_EBA
21.8 Levant_Natufian
1.8 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 3.3354% / 0.03335449
76.4 Levant_JOR_EBA
18.8 Levant_Natufian
4.0 Dinka
0.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.2 ETH_4500BP

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.8947% / 0.03894683
76.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
21.0 Levant_Natufian
2.2 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 2.8331% / 0.02833050
83.6 Levant_JOR_EBA
9.0 Levant_Natufian
3.8 Dinka
3.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
0.4 ETH_4500BP

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 2.8590% / 0.02858991
79.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
15.8 Levant_Natufian
4.8 Dinka
0.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.8823% / 0.03882316
82.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
14.8 Levant_Natufian
2.4 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.4558% / 0.03455781
79.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
17.8 Levant_Natufian
3.2 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 4.0399% / 0.04039943
65.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
35.0 Levant_Natufian

Seems like most Yemenis and other Peninsular Arabs do have Negroid (mainly Dinka) even if it is very minor. When using those simulated coordinates (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19294-Is-there-really-Basal-Eurasian-and-or-Iranian-Caucasus-related-ancestry-in-Anatolia&p=705050&viewfull=1#post705050) though, it looks like they also have a second layer of African blood that is ANA besides the Nilo-Saharan (or in some cases Bantu) admixture.

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 4.1984% / 0.04198404
60.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.2 ANA_(simulated)
4.0 TUR_Barcin_N
2.4 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP


Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.3350% / 0.04334959
61.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.2 ANA_(simulated)
2.8 TUR_Barcin_N
0.8 Dinka


Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 3.1301% / 0.03130143
55.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.4 ANA_(simulated)
7.0 TUR_Barcin_N
3.0 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP


Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.9048% / 0.03904784
58.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.6 ANA_(simulated)
6.8 TUR_Barcin_N
1.6 Dinka


Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 3.0676% / 0.03067559
48.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
28.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.6 TUR_Barcin_N
7.6 ANA_(simulated)
2.2 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 3.2726% / 0.03272626
52.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
25.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.6 TUR_Barcin_N
8.2 ANA_(simulated)
3.6 Dinka


Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.9476% / 0.03947637
56.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.0 TUR_Barcin_N
7.8 ANA_(simulated)
1.8 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.6420% / 0.03642035
55.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.2 TUR_Barcin_N
8.0 ANA_(simulated)
2.6 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 3.3916% / 0.03391639
64.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.0 ANA_(simulated)
1.4 TUR_Barcin_N

I see. I did some runs on Egyptians and they seem to have very minor IE, its less than Maghrebis and Levantines but more than most Arabs of the Peninsula. True those groups still have loads of ANE. Do you why Samaritans seem to have noise to literally lacking Steppe unlike most Levantines? Endogamy and refusal to intermarry with invading Greeks, Persians, Assyrians and other outsiders in the Levant?

Yes. They are endogamous relic pop

[Zanzibar]

Yes. They are endogamous relic pop

I heard they are purest locals and closest to Bronze Age Levantines like Sidon_MBA. Ancient Israelites,Judeans and Canaanites must be genetically identical to Samaritans. I have seen many models where Samaritans can be model as whopping 90-95%+ Bronze Age Levantine such as Sidon_MBA, Hazor, Megiddo_MLBA! The genetic continuity is amazing and insane. Not even Lebanese and Palestinian Christians are that autochthonous.

[Zanzibar]

Yes. They are endogamous relic pop

I notice Yemenis from Amran have slightly more Steppe affinity than other Peninsular Arabs even if its at negligible levels. Run some models on them and it seems they have substantial Levantine-like admixture compared to other Arabian inhabitants.

And it looks like the SSA blood in Yemenis, Saudis and other Arabians come from Cushitic/Horner ancestry?

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 3.7188% / 0.03718807
67.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
24.6 Levant_Natufian
5.4 Ethiopian_Amhara
2.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.1158% / 0.04115752
69.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
24.6 Levant_Natufian
3.2 Ethiopian_Amhara
3.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 2.9585% / 0.02958466
64.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
22.0 Levant_Natufian
7.8 Ethiopian_Amhara
5.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.7606% / 0.03760618
72.6 Levant_JOR_EBA
20.4 Levant_Natufian
5.2 Ethiopian_Amhara
1.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 2.3639% / 0.02363855
73.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
11.4 Levant_Natufian
7.8 Ethiopian_Amhara
7.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 2.5665% / 0.02566545
72.2 Levant_JOR_EBA
14.2 Levant_Natufian
10.6 Ethiopian_Amhara
3.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.7325% / 0.03732538
76.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
15.4 Levant_Natufian
5.2 Ethiopian_Amhara
2.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.2867% / 0.03286711
75.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
16.0 Levant_Natufian
7.4 Ethiopian_Amhara
1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 3.9510% / 0.03950985
58.2 Levant_JOR_EBA
38.4 Levant_Natufian
3.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

[Babak]

I heard they are purest locals and closest to Bronze Age Levantines like Sidon_MBA. Ancient Israelites,Judeans and Canaanites must be genetically identical to Samaritans. I have seen many models where Samaritans can be model as whopping 90-95%+ Bronze Age Levantine such as Sidon_MBA, Hazor, Megiddo_MLBA! The genetic continuity is amazing and insane. Not even Lebanese and Palestinian Christians are that autochthonous.

Yea Samaritans harbor the most Levant_N ancestry outside of the Arabian Peninsula. The Levant from a genetic perspective is nothing more than a gradient between Arabian related populations like Saudis, BedouinB and Yemenis, and Mesopotamian related populations like Assyrians, Armenians and Iraqi Jews. They are essentially a CHG shifted version of Natufians.

[Zoro]

IBS with 13Ky old Paleo-Siberian Kolyma-WGS 6.7 million SNPs. Kolyma is more E Asian shifted than Malta-ANE

Georgians a little higher than Basque and Sardinians
Jordanians a little higher than N Africans
Armenians a little higher than French

.Siberian_Paleo_Kolyma-IBS AVG_IBS1 NORMALIZED-IBS
Even 0.78438 100.0%
Yakut 0.78376 98.6%
Han 0.78215 94.8%
Mayan 0.78138 93.0%
Mixtec 0.77964 89.0%
Dai 0.77918 87.9%
Kyrgyz 0.77885 87.2%
Karitiana 0.77798 85.2%
Ami 0.77759 84.2%
Burmese 0.77753 84.1%
Surui 0.77707 83.0%
Mansi 0.77432 76.7%
Uygur 0.7722 71.7%
Saami 0.76411 53.0%
Burusho 0.76172 47.4%
Punjabi 0.7611 46.0%
Relli 0.7609 45.5%
Pashtun_Pak 0.75992 43.3%
KURDS-IRAQ 0.75864 40.3%
Tajik 0.75859 40.2%
Kalash 0.75854 40.1%
RUSSIANS 0.7584 39.7%
Sindhi 0.75794 38.7%
Finnish 0.75706 36.6%
Adygei 0.75653 35.4%
Brahui 0.7564 35.1%
Balochi 0.75599 34.1%
Estonian 0.75562 33.3%
Ossetian 0.75552 33.1%
Lezgin 0.75527 32.5%
Iranians-South 0.75419 30.0%
English 0.75414 29.9%
Turkish_Kayseri 0.75405 29.6%
Hungarian 0.75386 29.2%
Bulgarian 0.75382 29.1%
Abkhasian 0.75371 28.9%
ARMENIANS 0.75278 26.7%
French 0.75265 26.4%
Spanish 0.75248 26.0%
Papuan 0.75207 25.1%
GEORGIANS 0.7517 24.2%
Basque 0.751 22.6%
SARDINIANS 0.74969 19.5%
BedouinB 0.74788 15.3%
JORDANIANS 0.74662 12.4%
Saharawi 0.74127 0.0%
Mozabite 0.73974 -3.5%
Masai 0.7221 -44.5%
Luhya 0.71055 -71.3%
Yoruba 0.70858 -75.8%
Mbuti 0.70039 -94.8%
Khomani 0.69524 -104.0%

[Zanzibar]

Yes. They are endogamous relic pop

Is it me or are Samaritans also more Southern/Arabian-shifted compared to other Levantines?

It's interesting to see how Samaritans seem to lack European input but many of them have lighter features like hair, skin and eyes compared to other Levantines who are more mixed like Lebanese and Palestinians. Shows that genotype does not always equal phenotype. Are their light features the result of endogamy and inbreeding? I heard they are pretty inbred.

[Petalpusher]

I think it's mostly due to higher CHG, that is mainly basal with some ANE. So no Steppe or very little but some ancient components that look like Steppe.

[Zanzibar]

I think it's mostly due to higher CHG, that is mainly basal with some ANE. So no Steppe or very little but some ancient components that look like Steppe.

What are some of these ancient components that look like Steppe?

This would be the case for groups with very little to no Steppe such as Peninsular Arabs, Egyptians, Samaritans, Hemsheni Armenians, Western Georgians like Imereti, Adjara, Mingrelian, Laz and Trabzon Turks then?

[Petalpusher]

What are some of these ancient components that look like Steppe?

This would be the case for groups with very little to no Steppe such as Peninsular Arabs, Egyptians, Samaritans, Hemsheni Armenians, Western Georgians like Imereti, Adjara, Mingrelian, Laz and Trabzon Turks then?

Ancient IE were originally ANE (or something parent to it), then mixed with WHG gave you EHG (or SHG, with more WHG). Basal main Eurasian mixed with ANE in middle Eurasia in the late Paleo, that gave you CHG.

Steppe is EHG+CHG, so having a lot of Basal and minor ANE (like CHG is) in some Arabians groups (more to the East) is gonna be detected as something Steppe in some calculators run that has a steppe component but no ancients. Some might have real steppe ancestry but difficult to sort the calculator effect and real minor input.

i would say in the op calc, half of the steppe is real for these populations.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Peninsular Arabs don't, but Levantine Arabs do.

https://i.imgur.com/rc0HyuL.png

[Faklon]

They usually have minor wifes, sometimes from the Steppe

[Leto]

Why do the Yemeni pops have little or no Negroid? Who the fuck added 'Yemeni_mixed' to Dodecad Vahaduo? It is well over 10% nibber.

[Kyp]

Why do the Yemeni pops have little or no Negroid? Who the fuck added 'Yemeni_mixed' to Dodecad Vahaduo? It is well over 10% nibber.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdiJj6yPyZ0&ab_channel=gus1thego

[Kyp]

IBS with 13Ky old Paleo-Siberian Kolyma-WGS 6.7 million SNPs. Kolyma is more E Asian shifted than Malta-ANE

Georgians a little higher than Basque and Sardinians
Jordanians a little higher than N Africans
Armenians a little higher than French

.Siberian_Paleo_Kolyma-IBS AVG_IBS1 NORMALIZED-IBS
Even 0.78438 100.0%
Yakut 0.78376 98.6%
Han 0.78215 94.8%
Mayan 0.78138 93.0%
Mixtec 0.77964 89.0%
Dai 0.77918 87.9%
Kyrgyz 0.77885 87.2%
Karitiana 0.77798 85.2%
Ami 0.77759 84.2%
Burmese 0.77753 84.1%
Surui 0.77707 83.0%
Mansi 0.77432 76.7%
Uygur 0.7722 71.7%
Saami 0.76411 53.0%
Burusho 0.76172 47.4%
Punjabi 0.7611 46.0%
Relli 0.7609 45.5%
Pashtun_Pak 0.75992 43.3%
KURDS-IRAQ 0.75864 40.3%
Tajik 0.75859 40.2%
Kalash 0.75854 40.1%
RUSSIANS 0.7584 39.7%
Sindhi 0.75794 38.7%
Finnish 0.75706 36.6%
Adygei 0.75653 35.4%
Brahui 0.7564 35.1%
Balochi 0.75599 34.1%
Estonian 0.75562 33.3%
Ossetian 0.75552 33.1%
Lezgin 0.75527 32.5%
Iranians-South 0.75419 30.0%
English 0.75414 29.9%
Turkish_Kayseri 0.75405 29.6%
Hungarian 0.75386 29.2%
Bulgarian 0.75382 29.1%
Abkhasian 0.75371 28.9%
ARMENIANS 0.75278 26.7%
French 0.75265 26.4%
Spanish 0.75248 26.0%
Papuan 0.75207 25.1%
GEORGIANS 0.7517 24.2%
Basque 0.751 22.6%
SARDINIANS 0.74969 19.5%
BedouinB 0.74788 15.3%
JORDANIANS 0.74662 12.4%
Saharawi 0.74127 0.0%
Mozabite 0.73974 -3.5%
Masai 0.7221 -44.5%
Luhya 0.71055 -71.3%
Yoruba 0.70858 -75.8%
Mbuti 0.70039 -94.8%
Khomani 0.69524 -104.0%

I dont think that's an actual representative Kurdish Iraqi sample (if not completely fabricated).

[Zoro]

I dont think that's an actual representative Kurdish Iraqi sample (if not completely fabricated).

It’s easy for you to make accusations because your identity is hidden. Otherwise I would fucking sue you for slander you moron. All I would have to do is prove is my samples are Iraqi Kurds which is super easy to do by running them through Gedmatch

You have no idea what analysis results are when you run whole genomes because you and everyone else have been so brainwashed by 23andme or Ftdna or AncestryDna SNPs which are a small percentage of a human genome

Do you even know what Shugnan Tajiks are?
Did you even know I used Whole Genomes for ALL the samples not some handful of 23andMe or FTDNA SNPs?
Do you eve know that many Shugnan Tajiks are way more Caucasian looking than many Kurds?

https://i.imgur.com/dfZFxFl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bbF7rKV.jpg

I tell you what if you’re a real man put your money where your mouth is. I’ll upload the Simons whole genome dataset along with the Kurd Whole Genome and Kolyma data to the cloud.

You upload the kurd sample to Gedmatch and run it through calculators. You post the Gedmatch ID of the sample so we can check it also.

You run the Simons WGS and Kurd WGS dataset I uploaded through Plink IBS using —geno 0 to make sure all samples are using the same 10 million SNPs

If your results are not similar to mine I PAY YOU $500 via PayPal. Otherwise you pay me $500.

Until then shut the fuck up !

[Kyp]

It’s easy for you to make accusations because your identity is hidden. Otherwise I would fucking sue you for slander you moron. All I would have to do is prove is my samples are Iraqi Kurds which is super easy to do by running them through Gedmatch

You have no idea what analysis results are when you run whole genomes because you and everyone else have been so brainwashed by 23andme or Ftdna or AncestryDna SNPs which are a small percentage of a human genome

Do you even know what Shugnan Tajiks are?
Did you even know I used Whole Genomes for ALL the samples not some handful of 23andMe or FTDNA SNPs?
Do you eve know that many Shugnan Tajiks are way more Caucasian looking than many Kurds?

https://i.imgur.com/dfZFxFl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bbF7rKV.jpg

I tell you what if you’re a real man put your money where your mouth is. I’ll upload the Simons whole genome dataset along with the Kurd Whole Genome and Kolyma data to the cloud.

You upload the kurd sample to Gedmatch and run it through calculators. You post the Gedmatch ID of the sample so we can check it also.

You run the Simons WGS and Kurd WGS dataset I uploaded through Plink IBS using —geno 0 to make sure all samples are using the same 10 million SNPs

If your results are not similar to mine I PAY YOU $500 via PayPal. Otherwise you pay me $500.

Until then shut the fuck up !


How can I be sure the Kurd sample you send is indeed a Kurd from iraq? So it makes no sense for me to bet on it. I'll agree that the tools you use are far superior to Gedmatch, G25 etc.. but it's not transparable at all which samples are used and if someone wants to manipulate the outcome it can be easily done, because it's not build on public averages etc...

I tend to take everything you post with a grain of salt.

[Zoro]

[/B][/B]
How can I be sure the Kurd sample you send is indeed a Kurd from iraq? So it makes no sense for me to bet on it. I'll agree that the tools you use are far superior to Gedmatch, G25 etc.. but it's not transparable at all which samples are used and if someone wants to manipulate the outcome it can be easily done, because it's not build on public averages etc...

.

Because you’ll be able to tell from the Gedmatch oracles


I tend to take everything you post with a grain of salt.

Because you’ve been brainwashed by analysis using a handful of 23andme or ancestrydna or ftdna snps. These handful of snips are by no means representative of the actual millions of snps in human genomes

[Dorian]

[/B][/B]




Because you’ve been brainwashed by analysis using a handful of 23andme or ancestrydna or ftdna snps. These handful of snips are by no means representative of the actual millions of snps in human genomes

Is their difference so important that those from commercial tests could lead to wrong conclusions?I'd expect that they have some kind of formula that makes even those fewer ones representative.. If not ,I wonder If companies are picky then about which ones they test? (though I guess it doesn't really matter as the goal is comparison).

[Borealis]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdiJj6yPyZ0&ab_channel=gus1thego

It’s from socotra

[Zanzibar]

Why do the Yemeni pops have little or no Negroid? Who the fuck added 'Yemeni_mixed' to Dodecad Vahaduo? It is well over 10% nibber.

Not sure but I think the Natufian component is hiding a lot of Negroid. For example, here is another model using simulated coordinates from here
(https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19294-Is-there-really-Basal-Eurasian-and-or-Iranian-Caucasus-related-ancestry-in-Anatolia&p=705050&viewfull=1#post705050)

And it looks like most Negroid in Yemenis is actually ANA (Ancient North African) which is another African component found in Tarofalt and Natufian samples, besides the minor Dinka and West African-Bantu they tend to score. Proto-Natufian is simulated to create a Natufian component without any ANA and Anatolian Farmer since Natufians are actually a mix between Iberomaurusian (contains ANA) and Anatolian Neolithic.

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 4.1984% / 0.04198404
60.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.2 ANA_(simulated)
4.0 TUR_Barcin_N
2.4 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP

Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.3350% / 0.04334959
61.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.2 ANA_(simulated)
2.8 TUR_Barcin_N
0.8 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 3.1301% / 0.03130143
55.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.4 ANA_(simulated)
7.0 TUR_Barcin_N
3.0 COG_NgongoMbata_220BP

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.9048% / 0.03904784
58.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.6 ANA_(simulated)
6.8 TUR_Barcin_N
1.6 Dinka


Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 3.0676% / 0.03067559
48.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
28.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.6 TUR_Barcin_N
7.6 ANA_(simulated)
2.2 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 3.2726% / 0.03272626
52.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
25.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.6 TUR_Barcin_N
8.2 ANA_(simulated)
3.6 Dinka


Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.9476% / 0.03947637
56.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.0 TUR_Barcin_N
7.8 ANA_(simulated)
1.8 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.6420% / 0.03642035
55.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.2 TUR_Barcin_N
8.0 ANA_(simulated)
2.6 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 3.3916% / 0.03391639
64.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.0 ANA_(simulated)
1.4 TUR_Barcin_N

Or it could be that SSA admixture is not as widespread in Yemen as usually thought. And it looks like most of the SSA blood in Yemenis, Saudis and other Arabians come from Cushitic/Horner ancestry.

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 3.7188% / 0.03718807
67.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
24.6 Levant_Natufian
5.4 Ethiopian_Amhara
2.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.1158% / 0.04115752
69.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
24.6 Levant_Natufian
3.2 Ethiopian_Amhara
3.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 2.9585% / 0.02958466
64.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
22.0 Levant_Natufian
7.8 Ethiopian_Amhara
5.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.7606% / 0.03760618
72.6 Levant_JOR_EBA
20.4 Levant_Natufian
5.2 Ethiopian_Amhara
1.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 2.3639% / 0.02363855
73.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
11.4 Levant_Natufian
7.8 Ethiopian_Amhara
7.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 2.5665% / 0.02566545
72.2 Levant_JOR_EBA
14.2 Levant_Natufian
10.6 Ethiopian_Amhara
3.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.7325% / 0.03732538
76.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
15.4 Levant_Natufian
5.2 Ethiopian_Amhara
2.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.2867% / 0.03286711
75.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
16.0 Levant_Natufian
7.4 Ethiopian_Amhara
1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 3.9510% / 0.03950985
58.2 Levant_JOR_EBA
38.4 Levant_Natufian
3.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

[Kerlovic]

Levantine/west asian have higher steppe than egyptians bedouin and emirates

[Zoro]

Is their difference so important that those from commercial tests could lead to wrong conclusions?I'd expect that they have some kind of formula that makes even those fewer ones representative.. If not ,I wonder If companies are picky then about which ones they test? (though I guess it doesn't really matter as the goal is comparison).

They try to make tests affordable by picking a few SNPs instead of using whole genomes. The problem is anytime you pick SNPs like that you'll introduce biases of one kind or another. These is simply no perfect solution as far as picking SNPs that represent whole genomes of all populations.

Here is the same IBS list I posted earlier but instead of using 10 million SNPs I restricted it to the Kurds AncestryDNA results instead of whole genomes. Notice how the ranking of the Kurd sample dropped in the list. How do I know that results using 23andMe or AncestryDNA SNPs are off?

Because when I do IBS runs of Jordanians or Armenians, I get nonsensical results where Kurds are way down the list even further down than English. When I switch back to whole genomes the results make sense again because Kurds climb much higher up the Jordanian or Armenian list.


POPULATION AVG_IBS1 NORMALIZED-IBS
Even 0.75271 100.00%
Yakut 0.7514 97.21%
Han 0.75012 94.48%
Mayan 0.74856 91.15%
Mixtec 0.74698 87.78%
Dai 0.74662 87.01%
Kyrgyz 0.74571 85.07%
Burmese 0.74487 83.28%
Ami 0.74471 82.94%
Karitiana 0.74399 81.40%
Surui 0.74272 78.69%
Mansi 0.74141 75.90%
Uygur 0.7382 69.06%
Saami 0.72913 49.71%
Burusho 0.72641 43.91%
Punjabi 0.72632 43.72%
Relli 0.72559 42.16%
Pashtun_Pak 0.72428 39.37%
Tajik-Shugnan 0.72258 35.74%
Sindhi 0.72258 35.74%
Kalash 0.72231 35.17%
Russian 0.72222 34.98%
Finnish 0.72071 31.76%
KURDS-IRAQ 0.72049 31.29%
Adygei 0.71959 29.37%
Brahui 0.71953 29.24%
Balochi 0.7195 29.17%
Ossetian 0.71947 29.11%
Estonian 0.71937 28.90%
Lezgin 0.7189 27.90%
Papuan 0.71882 27.72%
Turkish_Kayseri 0.71796 25.89%
Iranians-South 0.7178 25.55%
English 0.71777 25.49%
Hungarian 0.71756 25.04%
Bulgarian 0.71723 24.33%
Abkhasian 0.71666 23.12%
Armenian 0.71641 22.58%
French 0.71634 22.44%
Spanish 0.71514 19.88%
Georgian 0.71503 19.64%
Basque 0.71412 17.70%
Sardinian 0.71226 13.73%
BedouinB 0.71055 10.09%
Jordanian 0.71033 9.62%
Saharawi 0.70582 0.00%
Mozabite 0.70485 -2.07%
Masai 0.691 -31.61%
Luhya 0.68124 -52.42%
Yoruba 0.67881 -57.60%
Mbuti 0.67392 -68.03%
Khomani 0.67314 -69.70%

[Zanzibar]

Levantine/west asian have higher steppe than egyptians bedouin and emirates

Not all though. Samaritans, Hemsheni Armenians, Trabzon Turks and Western Georgians such as Mingrelian, Imereti, Adjara and Laz have the same amount of Steppe as Egyptians, Bedouins which is negligible levels to even literally zero.

You mean Emiratis? It depends, the ones with Iranian admixture can have higher Steppe than most Levantines and West Asians.

[Leto]

I'll agree that the tools you use are far superior to Gedmatch, G25 etc..

How the fuck are they superior? I say they are bullshit mumbojumbo that no one understands. They don't show what a person's actual ancestral background is.

Fuck Zoro, he is a prick!

[Leto]

Do you eve know that many Shugnan Tajiks are way more Caucasian looking than many Kurds?

Yet Shughnan is over 40% Steppe (Andronovo) while Kurds can barely scrape up 15% if lucky.

[Token]

Ancient IE were originally ANE (or something parent to it), then mixed with WHG gave you EHG (or SHG, with more WHG). Basal main Eurasian mixed with ANE in middle Eurasia in the late Paleo, that gave you CHG.

Steppe is EHG+CHG, so having a lot of Basal and minor ANE (like CHG is) in some Arabians groups (more to the East) is gonna be detected as something Steppe in some calculators run that has a steppe component but no ancients. Some might have real steppe ancestry but difficult to sort the calculator effect and real minor input.

i would say in the op calc, half of the steppe is real for these populations.
The earliest reconstructable PIE can't be older than the 4th millenium BC and the population of the steppe was already mixed since the Mesolithic. There is no way to tell which of the several ancestral components spoke the language which was ancestral to PIE, it could well have been CHG or WHG.

[Zoro]

How the fuck are they superior? I say they are bullshit mumbojumbo[/B[B]] that no one understands. They don't show what a person's actual ancestral background is.

Fuck Zoro, he is a prick!

Whose fault is that. They wouldn't be mumbojumbo if you got yourself a brain you moron.

[Leto]

Not sure but I think the Natufian component is hiding a lot of Negroid. For example, here is another model using simulated coordinates from here
(https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19294-Is-there-really-Basal-Eurasian-and-or-Iranian-Caucasus-related-ancestry-in-Anatolia&p=705050&viewfull=1#post705050)

And it looks like most Negroid in Yemenis is actually ANA (Ancient North African) which is another African component found in Tarofalt and Natufian samples, besides the minor Dinka and West African-Bantu they tend to score. Proto-Natufian is simulated to create a Natufian component without any ANA and Anatolian Farmer since Natufians are actually a mix between Iberomaurusian (contains ANA) and Anatolian Neolithic.

Parts of Yemen, presumably inland ones seem to be relatively unaffected by outside influences and remain overwhelmingly native.

[Zoro]

Yet Shughnan is over 40% Steppe (Andronovo) while Kurds can barely scrape up 15% if lucky.


According to you and your lala land and your amateur tools. 15% my ass. More like double that or more

[Leto]

According to you and your lala land and your amateur tools. 15% my ass. More like double that or more
Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.2702% / 0.01270206
38.8 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
24.6 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
21.0 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
14.2 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
0.8 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
0.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.2 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave

Target: Tajik_Shugnan
Distance: 1.7127% / 0.01712677
46.4 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
30.2 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
15.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
4.4 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
3.6 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.2 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave

Suck it, you low-Steppe prick!

[Zanzibar]

Parts of Yemen, presumably inland ones seem to be relatively unaffected by outside influences and remain overwhelmingly native.

Right, it looks the Negroid admixture is not as prevalent throughout Yemen as originally thought or SSA admixture is found in inland areas as well but its pretty minor compared to coastal areas.

And it seems like most of the Negroid in Yemenis could have been mediated by Cushitic ancestry. (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18924-Cushitic-ancestry-in-Yemen). It's possible there used to be a Horner-like population (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18924-Cushitic-ancestry-in-Yemen&p=733645&viewfull=1#post733645) in the early history in Yemen as well.

[Leto]

Right, it looks the Negroid admixture is not as prevalent throughout Yemen as originally thought or SSA admixture is found in inland areas as well but its pretty minor compared to coastal areas.

And it seems like most of the Negroid in Yemenis could have been mediated by Cushitic ancestry. (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18924-Cushitic-ancestry-in-Yemen). It's possible there used to be a Horner-like population (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?18924-Cushitic-ancestry-in-Yemen&p=733645&viewfull=1#post733645) in the early history in Yemen as well.
I wonder if it's possible to get those Yemeni averages for Gedmatch. Would be good.

[FinalFlash]

[/B][/B]

Because you’ll be able to tell from the Gedmatch oracles



Because you’ve been brainwashed by analysis using a handful of 23andme or ancestrydna or ftdna snps. These handful of snips are by no means representative of the actual millions of snps in human genomes

Are you trying to say that Gedmatch and G25 is basically a load of shit? :D

[Token]

Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.2702% / 0.01270206
38.8 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
24.6 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
21.0 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
14.2 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
0.8 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
0.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.2 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave

Target: Tajik_Shugnan
Distance: 1.7127% / 0.01712677
46.4 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
30.2 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
15.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
4.4 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
3.6 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.2 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave

Suck it, you low-Steppe prick!

Zoro will say Tepe Hissar and Shahr i Sokhta may have had steppe blood so the remaining 15% may be hidden there :laugh:

[Leto]

Zoro will say Tepe Hissar and Shahr i Sokhta may have had steppe blood so the remaining 15% may be hidden there :laugh:
As an open Steppe supremacist, I don't hide my agenda. Those components were carefully picked. None of the pops scores any significant percentage of Yamnaya on Davidski's gold standard model. Only KAZ Aktogai is Steppe here and it's purely Andronovo.

[Zanzibar]

I wonder if it's possible to get those Yemeni averages for Gedmatch. Would be good.

Yes that would be great. Also it's likely the Natufian component Yemenis tend to score in G25 could be hiding additional Negroid blood as well.

Here is the run for the Horner admixture in Yemenis. I put both Somali and Ethiopian_Afar in the run and it seems they all prefer Ethiopian_Afar over Somali. Ethiopian Afars (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afar_people) look like this btw. Mahras seem to be the only to lack Horner ancestry.

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 2.9566% / 0.02956562
64.6 Levant_JOR_EBA
22.2 Levant_Natufian
7.8 Ethiopian_Afar
5.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.7558% / 0.03755771
72.6 Levant_JOR_EBA
20.4 Levant_Natufian
5.2 Ethiopian_Afar
1.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 2.3467% / 0.02346661
73.8 Levant_JOR_EBA
11.2 Levant_Natufian
8.0 Ethiopian_Afar
7.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 2.5743% / 0.02574262
72.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
14.4 Levant_Natufian
10.6 Ethiopian_Afar
3.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.7329% / 0.03732934
76.6 Levant_JOR_EBA
15.6 Levant_Natufian
5.2 Ethiopian_Afar
2.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.2920% / 0.03292000
74.2 Levant_JOR_EBA
16.8 Levant_Natufian
7.2 Ethiopian_Afar
1.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 3.9510% / 0.03950985
58.2 Levant_JOR_EBA
38.4 Levant_Natufian
3.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Compared to Saudi and Bedouin:


Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.1138% / 0.04113791
69.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
24.6 Levant_Natufian
3.2 Ethiopian_Afar
3.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 3.7184% / 0.03718441
67.6 Levant_JOR_EBA
24.8 Levant_Natufian
5.4 Ethiopian_Afar
2.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

[Token]

As an open Steppe supremacist, I don't hide my agenda. Those components were carefully picked. None of the pops scores any significant percentage of Yamnaya on Davidski's gold standard model. Only KAZ Aktogai is Steppe here and it's purely Andronovo.
Does not matter for Zoro, he will say the steppe is hidden somewhere - that the reference choices or the software are masking it. I will run a qpAdm model and I'm pretty sure it will not differ significantly from your model, but then he will say the SNPs are insufficient or some shit like that. The agenda is clear.

[Babak]

According to you and your lala land and your amateur tools. 15% my ass. More like double that or more

Double???? Are you crazy bro? Thats way too much steppe. You're talking about population displacement and massacres if kurds were to score that much. Holy shit.

[Leto]

Does not matter for Zoro, he will say the steppe is hidden somewhere - that the reference choices or the software are masking it. I will run a qpAdm model and I'm pretty sure it will not differ significantly from your model, but then he will say the SNPs are insufficient or some shit like that. The agenda is clear.
Some suspect Zoro is not even Kurdish himself. Or at least not fully Kurdish.

[Kyp]

How the fuck are they superior? I say they are bullshit mumbojumbo that no one understands. They don't show what a person's actual ancestral background is.

Fuck Zoro, he is a prick!

I meant the tool itself. Not the conclusions that can be made out of them. But yes I would even take that back because my knowledge on them is too limited to make such a statement. And I also think Zoro is not trustable on picking a good dataset for his runs. His agenda is just too big and evident for everyone to see.

I mean he has an own blog with nothing else than trying to connect Kurds to Central Asia and even East Asians.

[Babak]

How the fuck are they superior? I say they are bullshit mumbojumbo that no one understands. They don't show what a person's actual ancestral background is.

Fuck Zoro, he is a prick!

Yea G25 is probably the most accurate calculator there is right now. Suggesting kurds are 30-40% steppe is absolutely ridiculous though.

[Zoro]

Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.2702% / 0.01270206
38.8 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
24.6 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
21.0 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
14.2 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
0.8 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
0.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.2 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave

Target: Tajik_Shugnan
Distance: 1.7127% / 0.01712677
46.4 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
30.2 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
15.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
4.4 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
3.6 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.2 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave

Suck it, you low-Steppe prick!

Don't throw G25 shit in my face. Heed the advise of all people who have told you the problems with it.

Grow a brain so that you can start running QpAdm because G25 is not acceptable in the scientific community for many reasons and learn what ascertainment bias is before you waste my time with your useless shit

[Zoro]

Yea G25 is probably the most accurate calculator there is right now. Suggesting kurds are 30-40% steppe is absolutely ridiculous though.

See my comment to Leto. Steppe as defined by Tukmenistan-IA, Scythians and the like using qpAdm and not G25 garbage

[Zoro]

Some suspect Zoro is not even Kurdish himself. Or at least not fully Kurdish.

I don't give 2 shits what an Indian suspects

[Zoro]

Does not matter for Zoro, he will say the steppe is hidden somewhere - that the reference choices or the software are masking it. I will run a qpAdm model and I'm pretty sure it will not differ significantly from your model, but then he will say the SNPs are insufficient or some shit like that. The agenda is clear.

Garbage in = garbage out

Run qpAdm using a very high number of SNPs and use relevant pops such as Haji Firuz and Turkmenistan IA and Scythians and Levant

[Zoro]

I meant the tool itself. Not the conclusions that can be made out of them. But yes I would even take that back because my knowledge on them is too limited to make such a statement. And I also think Zoro is not trustable on picking a good dataset for his runs. His agenda is just too big and evident for everyone to see.

I mean he has an own blog with nothing else than trying to connect Kurds to Central Asia and even East Asians.

What blog?? Yes I'm distantly related to Dilawer but it's not my blog.

Stop making accusations without proof moron.

[Leto]

Turkmenistan_IA is already mixed, not fully Steppe. On the other hand, KAZ_Aktogai is unmixed.
TM_IA is not even an average, just a sole sample.

[Mejgusu]

@Zoro you can't say Khorosani Kurds are representative for whole Kurdish people, since you have some obsession about them. They are genetically and culturally influenced by locals(like Turks). I think your comments are mostly based on this thinking here.

[Zoro]

I meant the tool itself. Not the conclusions that can be made out of them. But yes I would even take that back because my knowledge on them is too limited to make such a statement. And I also think Zoro is not trustable on picking a good dataset for his runs. His agenda is just too big and evident for everyone to see.

I mean he has an own blog with nothing else than trying to connect Kurds to Central Asia and even East Asians.

What blog?? Yes I'm distantly related to Dilawer but it's not my blog.

Stop making accusations without proof moron.


It’s easy for you to make accusations because your identity is hidden. Otherwise I would fucking sue you for slander you moron. All I would have to do is prove is my samples are Iraqi Kurds which is super easy to do by running them through Gedmatch

You have no idea what analysis results are when you run whole genomes because you and everyone else have been so brainwashed by 23andme or Ftdna or AncestryDna SNPs which are a small percentage of a human genome

Do you even know what Shugnan Tajiks are?
Did you even know I used Whole Genomes for ALL the samples not some handful of 23andMe or FTDNA SNPs?
Do you eve know that many Shugnan Tajiks are way more Caucasian looking than many Kurds?

https://i.imgur.com/dfZFxFl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bbF7rKV.jpg

I tell you what if you’re a real man put your money where your mouth is. I’ll upload the Simons whole genome dataset along with the Kurd Whole Genome and Kolyma data to the cloud.

You upload the kurd sample to Gedmatch and run it through calculators. You post the Gedmatch ID of the sample so we can check it also.

You run the Simons WGS and Kurd WGS dataset I uploaded through Plink IBS using —geno 0 to make sure all samples are using the same 10 million SNPs

If your results are not similar to mine I PAY YOU $500 via PayPal. Otherwise you pay me $500.

Until then shut the fuck up !

[Zoro]

@Zoro you can't say Khorosani Kurds are representative for whole Kurdish people, since you have some obsession about them. They are genetically and culturally influenced by locals(like Turks). I think your comments are mostly based on this thinking here.

See my challenge to Kyp above

[Babak]

See my comment to Leto. Steppe as defined by Tukmenistan-IA, Scythians and the like using qpAdm and not G25 garbage

But TA is already mixed. Its literally half BMAC and half Steppe.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Zoro will say Tepe Hissar and Shahr i Sokhta may have had steppe blood so the remaining 15% may be hidden there :laugh:

They do have some tiny amount of ANE


<colgroup><col><col></colgroup><tbody>
Sample
ANE %


Tajik_Shugnan
24,6


Tajik_Rushan
23,8


Tajik_Ishkashim
22,6


Tajik_Badakshan
22


Tajik_Yagnobi
20,6


Tajik
19,2


Kurdish
6,6


IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
5,8


IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
4,4


IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
1

</tbody>

[Leto]

I don't give 2 shits what an Indian suspects
What Indian? Several people have expressed their doubts about your identity. Hadouken (since the guy's fucking gone from all major forums, I can mention him) even told me years ago you were female. xD

[Zoro]

They do have some tiny amount of ANE


<colgroup><col><col></colgroup><tbody>
Sample
ANE %


Tajik_Shugnan
24,6


Tajik_Rushan
23,8


Tajik_Ishkashim
22,6


Tajik_Badakshan
22


Tajik_Yagnobi
20,6


Tajik
19,2


Kurdish
6,6


IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
5,8


IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
4,4


IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
1

</tbody>

Total garbage numbers. Kurds wouldn't be this high up the Kolyma list with this type of ANE. Even CHG and Iran-N had more than 20% ANE according to the Harvard papers. Use common sense and stop posting garbage

.Siberian_Paleo_Kolyma-IBS AVG_IBS1 NORMALIZED-IBS
Even 0.78438 100.0%
Yakut 0.78376 98.6%
Han 0.78215 94.8%
Mayan 0.78138 93.0%
Mixtec 0.77964 89.0%
Dai 0.77918 87.9%
Kyrgyz 0.77885 87.2%
Karitiana 0.77798 85.2%
Ami 0.77759 84.2%
Burmese 0.77753 84.1%
Surui 0.77707 83.0%
Mansi 0.77432 76.7%
Uygur 0.7722 71.7%
Saami 0.76411 53.0%
Burusho 0.76172 47.4%
Punjabi 0.7611 46.0%
Relli 0.7609 45.5%
Pashtun_Pak 0.75992 43.3%
KURDS-IRAQ 0.75864 40.3%
Tajik 0.75859 40.2%
Kalash 0.75854 40.1%
RUSSIANS 0.7584 39.7%
Sindhi 0.75794 38.7%
Finnish 0.75706 36.6%
Adygei 0.75653 35.4%
Brahui 0.7564 35.1%
Balochi 0.75599 34.1%
Estonian 0.75562 33.3%
Ossetian 0.75552 33.1%
Lezgin 0.75527 32.5%
Iranians-South 0.75419 30.0%
English 0.75414 29.9%
Turkish_Kayseri 0.75405 29.6%
Hungarian 0.75386 29.2%
Bulgarian 0.75382 29.1%
Abkhasian 0.75371 28.9%
ARMENIANS 0.75278 26.7%
French 0.75265 26.4%
Spanish 0.75248 26.0%
Papuan 0.75207 25.1%
GEORGIANS 0.7517 24.2%
Basque 0.751 22.6%
SARDINIANS 0.74969 19.5%
BedouinB 0.74788 15.3%
JORDANIANS 0.74662 12.4%
Saharawi 0.74127 0.0%
Mozabite 0.73974 -3.5%
Masai 0.7221 -44.5%
Luhya 0.71055 -71.3%
Yoruba 0.70858 -75.8%
Mbuti 0.70039 -94.8%
Khomani 0.69524 -104.0%

[Zoro]

The high ANE and Indo-Iranic perfectly explains Kurd phenotypes

https://i.imgur.com/Rh4CZqN.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/oepIu55.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/O41s1v8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Imu1OaT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/q1M9hOe.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8hoQn3q.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/L55apYG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZcMooLz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wrtF3VF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WGwpG5v.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qDb1HKm.jpg
https://imgur.com/O41s1v8
https://i.imgur.com/eGPIwO4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/L2XCB2E.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/wtXdlUC.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/inSRh4N.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/fmZqec8.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/ZNqkX4q.jpg

[Leto]

The high ANE and Indo-Iranic perfectly explains Kurd phenotypes

Um, wouldn't ANE + Indo-Iranic result in more white European looks? By Indo-Iranic I don't mean anything close to modern Indians of course.
Kurds are generally very, very dark, darker than Turks even though they're Indo-European and Turks are Turkic.

[Kyp]

The high ANE and Indo-Iranic perfectly explains Kurd phenotypes

https://i.imgur.com/Rh4CZqN.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/oepIu55.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/O41s1v8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Imu1OaT.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/q1M9hOe.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/8hoQn3q.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/L55apYG.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ZcMooLz.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/wrtF3VF.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/WGwpG5v.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/qDb1HKm.jpg
https://imgur.com/O41s1v8
https://i.imgur.com/eGPIwO4.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/L2XCB2E.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/wtXdlUC.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/inSRh4N.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/fmZqec8.jpg


https://i.imgur.com/ZNqkX4q.jpg

None of these look Central Asian except the woman (musician) from the eighth picture and she is from Khorasan Iran which explains her phenotype. She does not look typical Kurdish

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Total garbage numbers. Kurds wouldn't be this high up the Kolyma list with this type of ANE. Even CHG and Iran-N had more than 20% ANE according to the Harvard papers. Use common sense and stop posting garbage

.Siberian_Paleo_Kolyma-IBS AVG_IBS1 NORMALIZED-IBS
Even 0.78438 100.0%
Yakut 0.78376 98.6%
Han 0.78215 94.8%
Mayan 0.78138 93.0%
Mixtec 0.77964 89.0%
Dai 0.77918 87.9%
Kyrgyz 0.77885 87.2%
Karitiana 0.77798 85.2%
Ami 0.77759 84.2%
Burmese 0.77753 84.1%
Surui 0.77707 83.0%
Mansi 0.77432 76.7%
Uygur 0.7722 71.7%
Saami 0.76411 53.0%
Burusho 0.76172 47.4%
Punjabi 0.7611 46.0%
Relli 0.7609 45.5%
Pashtun_Pak 0.75992 43.3%
KURDS-IRAQ 0.75864 40.3%
Tajik 0.75859 40.2%
Kalash 0.75854 40.1%
RUSSIANS 0.7584 39.7%
Sindhi 0.75794 38.7%
Finnish 0.75706 36.6%
Adygei 0.75653 35.4%
Brahui 0.7564 35.1%
Balochi 0.75599 34.1%
Estonian 0.75562 33.3%
Ossetian 0.75552 33.1%
Lezgin 0.75527 32.5%
Iranians-South 0.75419 30.0%
English 0.75414 29.9%
Turkish_Kayseri 0.75405 29.6%
Hungarian 0.75386 29.2%
Bulgarian 0.75382 29.1%
Abkhasian 0.75371 28.9%
ARMENIANS 0.75278 26.7%
French 0.75265 26.4%
Spanish 0.75248 26.0%
Papuan 0.75207 25.1%
GEORGIANS 0.7517 24.2%
Basque 0.751 22.6%
SARDINIANS 0.74969 19.5%
BedouinB 0.74788 15.3%
JORDANIANS 0.74662 12.4%
Saharawi 0.74127 0.0%
Mozabite 0.73974 -3.5%
Masai 0.7221 -44.5%
Luhya 0.71055 -71.3%
Yoruba 0.70858 -75.8%
Mbuti 0.70039 -94.8%
Khomani 0.69524 -104.0%

The table shows the REAL percentage of ANE, not distant connections. I use AfontovaGora3 as a proxy for ANE, and even on Global25 Iran_N and CHG come out more than 20% ANE when they are not included in the source.

I don't understand what the point is of going so far back in time to calculate ANE, at this point why not just say we are all African since almost all of our ancestors lived there 70,000 years ago?

[Voskos]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1tFAa7oxWpcNN-OdMMjBdb4NeWKG7EkpKMzZJVW2_MME/edit#gid=2002805772

[Zoro]

None of these look Central Asian except the woman (musician) from the eighth picture and she is from Khorasan Iran which explains her phenotype. She does not look typical Kurdish

You’re right. Pamiri Tajiks look more Central Asian Turkmen Uzbek and E European Bashkir and ANE high Central or South American than those Kurds lol and yes lions have horns. Whatever you say champ



Pamiri Tajiks

https://i.imgur.com/mmR0d8V.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wujtskp.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/dfZFxFl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bbF7rKV.jpg

[Babak]

You’re right. Pamiri Tajiks look more Central Asian Turkmen Uzbek and E European Bashkir and ANE high Central or South American than those Kurds lol and yes lions have horns. Whatever you say champ



Pamiri Tajiks

https://i.imgur.com/mmR0d8V.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wujtskp.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/dfZFxFl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bbF7rKV.jpg

Except pamiris score double the steppe, less chg and more EA. They are nothing close to kurds at all.

[Zoro]

Except pamiris score double the steppe, less chg and more EA. They are nothing close to kurds at all.

According to admixture calculators and G25 which of course have the last say for laymen like the people here because they’re not skilled or knowledgeable enough to understand IBS and ascertainment bias.

Hmm who am I going to go with?

Laymen and their admixture calculators and G25 or IBS and formal tools combined with confirmation by phenotype?

A difficult choice indeed!

[Borealis]

Kurds look very ANF shifted not ANE

[Kyp]

You’re right. Pamiri Tajiks look more Central Asian Turkmen Uzbek and E European Bashkir and ANE high Central or South American than those Kurds lol and yes lions have horns. Whatever you say champ



Pamiri Tajiks

https://i.imgur.com/mmR0d8V.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/wujtskp.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/dfZFxFl.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/bbF7rKV.jpg

Everyone can cherry pick some photos. If I would like I could cherrypick photos and portray Greeks more Central Asian looking than for example Turkmens. What's the point?

Also even in cherrypicking photos you havent achieved Kurds to appear more Central Asian than Tajiks..

[Borealis]

I don't give 2 shits what an Indian suspects

I never said you weren’t part Kurdish in fact others did

[Kyp]

According to admixture calculators and G25 which of course have the last say for laymen like the people here because they’re not skilled or knowledgeable enough to understand IBS and ascertainment bias.

Hmm who am I going to go with?

Laymen and their admixture calculators and G25 or IBS and formal tools combined with confirmation by phenotype?

A difficult choice indeed!

You keep hiding behind your IBS tool, but the fact that IBS is a good tool, doesn't mean that your runs have any merit at all! Your Kurdish_Iraq sample that you keep using for any single run for Kurds, is clearly either an extreme outlier (like those 10% East Asian result you posted years ago) or its fabricated or just not an Iraqi Kurd at all!


I dont care about your "hey I use IBS so you can't critique me at all" scheme!

[Zoro]

Kurds look very ANF shifted not ANE

Proof? Do you have pictures of a dozen ANF specimens?
Evidence talks bullshit walks

[Zoro]

I never said you weren’t part Kurdish in fact others did

I was referring to leto

[Zoro]

You keep hiding behind your IBS tool, but the fact that IBS is a good tool, doesn't mean that your runs have any merit at all! Your Kurdish_Iraq sample that you keep using for any single run for Kurds, is clearly either an extreme outlier (like those 10% East Asian result you posted years ago) or its fabricated or just not an Iraqi Kurd at all!


I dont care about your "hey I use IBS so you can't critique me at all" scheme!

Because IBS is an actual genome to genome comparison and doesn’t depend on what components are used in a calculator or which populations are used to model. Get it now?

You’re a stubborn moron with your baseless accusations without proof. Give me proof it’s fabricated or stfu

[Zoro]

Everyone can cherry pick some photos. If I would like I could cherrypick photos and portray Greeks more Central Asian looking than for example Turkmens. What's the point?

Also even in cherrypicking photos you havent achieved Kurds to appear more Central Asian than Tajiks..

My IBS whole genome results have done that. No fucking calculator which changes depending on what components are used or PCA based G25 with all its numerous flaws is ever going to trump a direct genome to genome IBS comparison of number matching genes. CASE CLOSED.

Don’t waste my time on Nonesense

[Leto]

I never said you weren’t part Kurdish in fact others did
Are you that guy of Indian Muslim origin? I mistook you for a white guy which I guess was your intention ;)

[Borealis]

Are you that guy of Indian Muslim origin? I mistook you for a white guy which I guess was your intention ;)

Do you saw my name and still somehow mistook me as someone other than what I am?

[FinalFlash]

Because IBS is an actual genome to genome comparison and doesn’t depend on what components are used in a calculator or which populations are used to model. Get it now?

You’re a stubborn moron with your baseless accusations without proof. Give me proof it’s fabricated or stfu

Can you make runs using qpAdm?

[Borealis]

Proof? Do you have pictures of a dozen ANF specimens?
Evidence talks bullshit walks

We don't have pictures of ANE specimens either. Your point?

Realistically, we're basing this off modern populations who have heavy quantities of the components in question. We know who has tons of ANF, it's the Sardinians first and foremost and then secondarily southern Europeans in general, then after that the populations of northern west Asia and then the rest of West Asia.

Who has the most ANE in the world? Uralic groups, Tajiks, Caucasians, and Native Americans. Obviously, Kurds look nothing like Uralic groups or Native Americans. They don't particularly look like Tajiks either except for a tiny number of atypical folks. They look somewhat similar to Caucasians in terms of features, but Caucasians also have a lot of ANF. We can say with clarity that as a whole, Kurds more resemble the ANF rich cluster than than the ANE-rich cluster.

[Borealis]

Accepting that G25 is not a professional tool and should not be considered the end-all-be-all for genetic analysis does not mean we need to throw all common sense and knowledge of ethnic populations out the window. Human beings are prisoners of their geography and that applies to the realm of genetics as well-groups that are located near each other are closer to each other than groups that are located further away from each other. That's a basic tenant that holds true short of some kind of mass migration and/or genocide taking place or severe inbreeding preserving certain autosomal profiles.

To argue that Kurds are actually closer to Tajiks, Scythians, and Balochis than they are to Armenians, Assyrians, or even Cappadocian Greeks would require a shit ton of fresh evidence from scientific papers to override the prevailing theory. The tools used may be accurate but the samples themselves may not be as the other users have pointed out and which you yourself have suggested in the past.

[Zanzibar]

We don't have pictures of ANE specimens either. Your point?

Realistically, we're basing this off modern populations who have heavy quantities of the components in question. We know who has tons of ANF, it's the Sardinians first and foremost and then secondarily southern Europeans in general, then after that the populations of northern west Asia and then the rest of West Asia.

Who has the most ANE in the world? Uralic groups, Tajiks, Caucasians, and Native Americans. Obviously, Kurds look nothing like Uralic groups or Native Americans. They don't particularly look like Tajiks either except for a tiny number of atypical folks. They look somewhat similar to Caucasians in terms of features, but Caucasians also have a lot of ANF. We can say with clarity that as a whole, Kurds more resemble the ANF rich cluster than than the ANE-rich cluster.

Most of the ANF in groups like Iranians, Georgians, Armenians, Turks, North Caucasians, Samaritans, other Levantines are indigenous and autochthonous to the area and not from European admixture such as from Greeks or Romans right?

In the case of Maghrebis, it looks like a lot of their ANF is from Southern European/Iberian-like ancestry rather than native but I'm not entirely sure either.

[Zanzibar]

Can you make runs using qpAdm?

Is the Anatolian Neolithic ancestry in Armenians, Georgians, Iranians, Turks, North Caucasians, Levantines, etc. native to the area or do they have some South European admixture?

[Borealis]

Most of the ANF in groups like Iranians, Georgians, Armenians, Turks, North Caucasians, Samaritans, other Levantines are indigenous and autochthonous to the area and not from European admixture such as from Greeks or Romans right?

In the case of Maghrebis, it looks like a lot of their ANF is from Southern European/Iberian-like ancestry rather than native but I'm not entirely sure either.

Yes, its practically all indigenous except maybe in the case of Levantines and Turks even then its at least 95% of their ANF.

[Zanzibar]

Yes, its practically all indigenous except maybe in the case of Levantines and Turks even then its at least 95% of their ANF.

I see. I think in the case of Samaritans though almost entirely their ANF might be native as they hardly score any Greek or other Euro admixture.

[Zanzibar]

Yes, its practically all indigenous except maybe in the case of Levantines and Turks even then its at least 95% of their ANF.

Btw Peninsular Arabs like Saudis, Yemenis and Bedouins also have ANF admixture from their Natufian ancestry?

[Borealis]

Btw Peninsular Arabs like Saudis, Yemenis and Bedouins also have ANF admixture from their Natufian ancestry?

yes

[Zanzibar]

yes

It makes me wonder if Horners especially Semitic speaking Eritreans and Ethiopians also have ANF and Iran_N admixture since they seem to have significant Arabian-like input which also introduces the Semitic language with them.

[Borealis]

It makes me wonder if Horners especially Semitic speaking Eritreans and Ethiopians also have ANF and Iran_N admixture since they seem to have significant Arabian-like input which also introduces the Semitic language with them.

Their admixture seems to be mainly Levant_N and East African like. Levant_N was a mix of Natufian and ANF so yeah I suppose they have it too.

[Leto]

Do you saw my name and still somehow mistook me as someone other than what I am?
You have had multiple nicknames, I don't follow you.

Are you Bengali?

[Zanzibar]

Their admixture seems to be mainly Levant_N and East African like. Levant_N was a mix of Natufian and ANF so yeah I suppose they have it too.

Btw do you think G25 is underestimating the amount of SSA in Arabians? Like do you think the Natufian component is hiding a lot of African ancestry? I'm shocked at how low SSA the Peninsular Arabs in G25 have especially the Yemenis like only 1-4% Dinka. In older calculators, they score much more African than now.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Btw do you think G25 is underestimating the amount of SSA in Arabians? Like do you think the Natufian component is hiding a lot of African ancestry? I'm shocked at how low SSA the Peninsular Arabs in G25 have especially the Yemenis like only 1-4% Dinka. In older calculators, they score much more African than now.

Jordanians, Palestinians, Iraqis and even Onge are more shifted towards Africa than some Saudi and Yemeni populations.


Distance to: Ju_hoan_North:B_Ju_hoan_North-4

0.99465042 Jordanian
0.99583860 Palestinian
0.99593708 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.99661730 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.99719765 Iranian_Bandari
0.99969849 Yemenite_Amran
1.00005065 Iraqi
1.00012057 Makrani
1.00280157 Maori
1.00349233 BedouinB
1.00496726 Onge
1.00511192 Yemenite_Ma'rib
1.00551218 Jarawa
1.00553794 Syrian
1.00640552 Cochin_Jew
1.00681974 Libyan_Jew
1.00705464 Balochi_B
1.00756770 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
1.00929752 Saudi
1.01014138 Tunisian_Jew
1.01044330 Brahui
1.01077471 Yemenite_Jew
1.01176039 Lebanese_Muslim
1.01177740 Punjabi_Muslim_India
1.01211263 Bahun_o
1.01224438 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
1.01225963 Roma_Granada
1.01257412 Parsi_India
1.01331813 Spanish_Canarias
1.01368123 Balti
1.01373547 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
1.01374808 Balochi_A
1.01395383 Yemenite_Mahra
1.01419218 Nepalese_A2
1.01425095 Parsi_Pakistan
1.01453824 Pashtun_Kurram
1.01462337 Moroccan_Jew
1.01462484 Roma_Porto
1.01468434 Brahmin_West_Bengal
1.01470862 Roma_Bilbao
1.01478722 Roma_Balkans
1.01497336 Burusho
1.01525693 Roma_Madrid
1.01531282 Turkmen
1.01556893 Kshatriya
1.01559337 Kashmiri_Pandit
1.01568216 Brahmin_Gujarat
1.01568739 Iyer
1.01578508 Sindhi
1.01605894 Punjabi_Sikh_India
1.01611599 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
1.01624653 Kohistani
1.01632264 Khatri
1.01636795 Nepalese_B
1.01643086 Rajput_Rajasthan
1.01644810 Sephardic_Jew_o
1.01649637 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu
1.01651882 Kamboj
1.01657134 Punjabi_Lahore
1.01658101 Nepalese_A
1.01661103 Karaite_Egypt
1.01664579 Gujar_India
1.01667493 Yusufzai
1.01669774 Turkish_South
1.01672955 Khatri_o
1.01685766 Tarkalani
1.01699645 Sri_Lankan
1.01720973 Uthmankhel
1.01723683 Bahun
1.01739093 Punjabi_Hindu_India
1.01741359 Iranian_Lor
1.01745569 Iranian_Fars
1.01745869 Turkish_Southwest
1.01755926 Uzbek
1.01767429 Sarikoli_China
1.01767689 Turkish_Aydin
1.01769278 Tajik_Ishkashim
1.01775740 Brahmin_UP
1.01788597 Punjabi_Jatt
1.01789847 Gujar_Pakistan
1.01793920 Relli
1.01801929 Kashmiri_Pakistan
1.01822497 Kanjar
1.01823196 Kashmiri_Pakistan_o
1.01852311 Konkani_Christian
1.01858560 Bengali_Bangladesh
1.01863592 Turkish_Northwest
1.01866161 Kurumba
1.01877637 Tajik
1.01888157 Rajput_Rajasthan_o
1.01893924 Azerbaijani_Turkey
1.01895283 Tajik_Badakshan
1.01903287 Lebanese_Druze
1.01905247 Kamboj_o
1.01905279 Azerbaijani
1.01917967 Sakilli
1.01918268 Nepalese_C
1.01954773 Piramalai
1.01960211 Ror
1.01967619 Iranian_Zoroastrian
1.01971149 Maratha
1.01977581 Ezid
1.01979033 Kalash
1.01981529 Tamils_GBR
1.01995558 Dharkar
1.01996897 Iranian_Mazandarani
1.01997420 Turkish_Balikesir

[mashail]

Jordanians, Palestinians, Iraqis and even Onge are more shifted towards Africa than some Saudi and Yemeni populations.


Distance to: Ju_hoan_North:B_Ju_hoan_North-4

0.99465042 Jordanian
0.99583860 Palestinian
0.99593708 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.99661730 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.99719765 Iranian_Bandari
0.99969849 Yemenite_Amran
1.00005065 Iraqi
1.00012057 Makrani
1.00280157 Maori
1.00349233 BedouinB
1.00496726 Onge
1.00511192 Yemenite_Ma'rib
1.00551218 Jarawa
1.00553794 Syrian
1.00640552 Cochin_Jew
1.00681974 Libyan_Jew
1.00705464 Balochi_B
1.00756770 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
1.00929752 Saudi
1.01014138 Tunisian_Jew
1.01044330 Brahui
1.01077471 Yemenite_Jew
1.01176039 Lebanese_Muslim
1.01177740 Punjabi_Muslim_India
1.01211263 Bahun_o
1.01224438 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
1.01225963 Roma_Granada
1.01257412 Parsi_India
1.01331813 Spanish_Canarias
1.01368123 Balti
1.01373547 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
1.01374808 Balochi_A
1.01395383 Yemenite_Mahra
1.01419218 Nepalese_A2
1.01425095 Parsi_Pakistan
1.01453824 Pashtun_Kurram
1.01462337 Moroccan_Jew
1.01462484 Roma_Porto
1.01468434 Brahmin_West_Bengal
1.01470862 Roma_Bilbao
1.01478722 Roma_Balkans
1.01497336 Burusho
1.01525693 Roma_Madrid
1.01531282 Turkmen
1.01556893 Kshatriya
1.01559337 Kashmiri_Pandit
1.01568216 Brahmin_Gujarat
1.01568739 Iyer
1.01578508 Sindhi
1.01605894 Punjabi_Sikh_India
1.01611599 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
1.01624653 Kohistani
1.01632264 Khatri
1.01636795 Nepalese_B
1.01643086 Rajput_Rajasthan
1.01644810 Sephardic_Jew_o
1.01649637 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu
1.01651882 Kamboj
1.01657134 Punjabi_Lahore
1.01658101 Nepalese_A
1.01661103 Karaite_Egypt
1.01664579 Gujar_India
1.01667493 Yusufzai
1.01669774 Turkish_South
1.01672955 Khatri_o
1.01685766 Tarkalani
1.01699645 Sri_Lankan
1.01720973 Uthmankhel
1.01723683 Bahun
1.01739093 Punjabi_Hindu_India
1.01741359 Iranian_Lor
1.01745569 Iranian_Fars
1.01745869 Turkish_Southwest
1.01755926 Uzbek
1.01767429 Sarikoli_China
1.01767689 Turkish_Aydin
1.01769278 Tajik_Ishkashim
1.01775740 Brahmin_UP
1.01788597 Punjabi_Jatt
1.01789847 Gujar_Pakistan
1.01793920 Relli
1.01801929 Kashmiri_Pakistan
1.01822497 Kanjar
1.01823196 Kashmiri_Pakistan_o
1.01852311 Konkani_Christian
1.01858560 Bengali_Bangladesh
1.01863592 Turkish_Northwest
1.01866161 Kurumba
1.01877637 Tajik
1.01888157 Rajput_Rajasthan_o
1.01893924 Azerbaijani_Turkey
1.01895283 Tajik_Badakshan
1.01903287 Lebanese_Druze
1.01905247 Kamboj_o
1.01905279 Azerbaijani
1.01917967 Sakilli
1.01918268 Nepalese_C
1.01954773 Piramalai
1.01960211 Ror
1.01967619 Iranian_Zoroastrian
1.01971149 Maratha
1.01977581 Ezid
1.01979033 Kalash
1.01981529 Tamils_GBR
1.01995558 Dharkar
1.01996897 Iranian_Mazandarani
1.01997420 Turkish_Balikesir
I always knew that since both Jordan and Palestine is bordering Africa and had contacts with ancient Egyptians so it makes sense that their SSA is higher than Arabians which r very isolated group of ppl due to their culture.
but honestly many Jordanian\Palestinian their SSA doesn't really shows while Yemenis and some saudis seems darker due to their climate SSA among Arabians is very exaggerated!

[Zanzibar]

I always knew that since both Jordan and Palestine is bordering Africa and had contacts with ancient Egyptians so it makes sense that their SSA is higher than Arabians which r very isolated group of ppl due to their culture.
but honestly many Jordanian\Palestinian their SSA doesn't really shows while Yemenis and some saudis seems darker due to their climate SSA among Arabians is very exaggerated!

I'm shocked about how Yemenis have so low SSA though despite locating literally next to Somalia in the Horn Africa though. It's likely these Yemenis are from isolated inland communities or the Natufian component that Arabians score in huge amounts are hiding a lot of their African admixture.

[sailormoon]

The frequencies of R1a1-M17 in Saudi Arabia are 5.10% and 6.94% in Qatar, reaching as high as 9% in Oman. R1a1-M17 marks the eastward migration of the early Indo-Europeans and it further spread to the Arabian Peninsula as well.

Table 1 Ychromosome haplogroup frequencies observed for Saudi Arabia and nearby regions

https://bmcgenomdata.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/1471-2156-10-59/tables/1

[mashail]

I'm shocked about how Yemenis have so low SSA though despite locating literally next to Somalia in the Horn Africa though. It's likely these Yemenis are from isolated inland communities or the Natufian component that Arabians score in huge amounts are hiding a lot of their African admixture.
IKR?? I thought at least southern Yemeni absorved good amount of SSA since they are very close to EA but it seems like I am wrong and maybe looking at thousands of photos in google of black Yemenis make ppl more confused but they r actually non Arab in Yemen they call them Alkhadam\Slaves and in phenotype they look pretty much caucasian but with black skin since they r of EA origin. I am very interested in ppl with colored hair and eyed in Yemen its rare but its not un heard of unlike Arab gulf ppl they indeed tend way lighter by skin color but they lack of light hair\eye.

[Zoro]

Jordanians, Palestinians, Iraqis and even Onge are more shifted towards Africa than some Saudi and Yemeni populations.


Distance to: Ju_hoan_North:B_Ju_hoan_North-4

0.99465042 Jordanian
0.99583860 Palestinian
0.99593708 Yemenite_Dhamar
0.99661730 Yemenite_Al_Bayda
0.99719765 Iranian_Bandari
0.99969849 Yemenite_Amran
1.00005065 Iraqi
1.00012057 Makrani
1.00280157 Maori
1.00349233 BedouinB
1.00496726 Onge
1.00511192 Yemenite_Ma'rib
1.00551218 Jarawa
1.00553794 Syrian
1.00640552 Cochin_Jew
1.00681974 Libyan_Jew
1.00705464 Balochi_B
1.00756770 Yemenite_Al_Jawf
1.00929752 Saudi
1.01014138 Tunisian_Jew
1.01044330 Brahui
1.01077471 Yemenite_Jew
1.01176039 Lebanese_Muslim
1.01177740 Punjabi_Muslim_India
1.01211263 Bahun_o
1.01224438 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
1.01225963 Roma_Granada
1.01257412 Parsi_India
1.01331813 Spanish_Canarias
1.01368123 Balti
1.01373547 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
1.01374808 Balochi_A
1.01395383 Yemenite_Mahra
1.01419218 Nepalese_A2
1.01425095 Parsi_Pakistan
1.01453824 Pashtun_Kurram
1.01462337 Moroccan_Jew
1.01462484 Roma_Porto
1.01468434 Brahmin_West_Bengal
1.01470862 Roma_Bilbao
1.01478722 Roma_Balkans
1.01497336 Burusho
1.01525693 Roma_Madrid
1.01531282 Turkmen
1.01556893 Kshatriya
1.01559337 Kashmiri_Pandit
1.01568216 Brahmin_Gujarat
1.01568739 Iyer
1.01578508 Sindhi
1.01605894 Punjabi_Sikh_India
1.01611599 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
1.01624653 Kohistani
1.01632264 Khatri
1.01636795 Nepalese_B
1.01643086 Rajput_Rajasthan
1.01644810 Sephardic_Jew_o
1.01649637 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu
1.01651882 Kamboj
1.01657134 Punjabi_Lahore
1.01658101 Nepalese_A
1.01661103 Karaite_Egypt
1.01664579 Gujar_India
1.01667493 Yusufzai
1.01669774 Turkish_South
1.01672955 Khatri_o
1.01685766 Tarkalani
1.01699645 Sri_Lankan
1.01720973 Uthmankhel
1.01723683 Bahun
1.01739093 Punjabi_Hindu_India
1.01741359 Iranian_Lor
1.01745569 Iranian_Fars
1.01745869 Turkish_Southwest
1.01755926 Uzbek
1.01767429 Sarikoli_China
1.01767689 Turkish_Aydin
1.01769278 Tajik_Ishkashim
1.01775740 Brahmin_UP
1.01788597 Punjabi_Jatt
1.01789847 Gujar_Pakistan
1.01793920 Relli
1.01801929 Kashmiri_Pakistan
1.01822497 Kanjar
1.01823196 Kashmiri_Pakistan_o
1.01852311 Konkani_Christian
1.01858560 Bengali_Bangladesh
1.01863592 Turkish_Northwest
1.01866161 Kurumba
1.01877637 Tajik
1.01888157 Rajput_Rajasthan_o
1.01893924 Azerbaijani_Turkey
1.01895283 Tajik_Badakshan
1.01903287 Lebanese_Druze
1.01905247 Kamboj_o
1.01905279 Azerbaijani
1.01917967 Sakilli
1.01918268 Nepalese_C
1.01954773 Piramalai
1.01960211 Ror
1.01967619 Iranian_Zoroastrian
1.01971149 Maratha
1.01977581 Ezid
1.01979033 Kalash
1.01981529 Tamils_GBR
1.01995558 Dharkar
1.01996897 Iranian_Mazandarani
1.01997420 Turkish_Balikesir

Thanks for sharing another piece of evidence to show how crappy the G25 is. I'll add this to the list of evidences others have shared before about how nonsensical the G25 is such as Europeans being closer to SSA than other Eurasians.

Shame on those who let themselves be conned by this nonsensical tool and don't have the common sense to question how can:

Onge and Syrians be closer to Pygmy SSA than Saudis and Yemenis or

How can Pashtuns and Central Asians be closer Pygmy Africans than Iranian Lors and Fars.

It's time to wake up and use just a tiny tiny piece of common sense and realize that this is beyond nonsense instead of making excuses for the nonsense results.

Remember one thing that if you cluster close to you ethnic group does not necessarily make the tool good. I can make French 80% SSA and 20% E Asian and still have them cluster close to other French. All I have to do is make other French and Europeans close to 80%SSA and 20% E Asian to do that. It doesn't mean my tool is good.

With every piece of evidence you guys share this tool crumbles more and more

[Babak]

Thanks for sharing another piece of evidence to show how crappy the G25 is. I'll add this to the list of evidences others have shared before about how nonsensical the G25 is such as Europeans being closer to SSA than other Eurasians.

Shame on those who let themselves be conned by this nonsensical tool and don't have the common sense to question how can:

Onge and Syrians be closer to Pygmy SSA than Saudis and Yemenis or

How can Pashtuns and Central Asians be closer Pygmy Africans than Iranian Lors and Fars.

It's time to wake up and use just a tiny tiny piece of common sense and realize that this is beyond nonsense instead of making excuses for the nonsense results.

Remember one thing that if you cluster close to you ethnic group does not necessarily make the tool good. I can make French 80% SSA and 20% E Asian and still have them cluster close to other French. All I have to do is make other French and Europeans close to 80%SSA and 20% E Asian to do that. It doesn't mean my tool is good.

With every piece of evidence you guys share this tool crumbles more and more

I mean, the mere fact that you claim west iranics are 30-40% steppe is absolutely insane itself. G25 is right on the money on the amount of steppe kurds have and 15% is pretty reasonable. DMXX has already confirmed this plenty of times.

[Zoro]

I mean, the mere fact that you claim west iranics are 30-40% steppe is absolutely insane itself. G25 is right on the money on the amount of steppe kurds have and 15% is pretty reasonable. DMXX has already confirmed this plenty of times.

If the G25 screws up the distances above so badly the 15% MUST also be wrong. It’s common sense !! You can’t wiggle your way around it so don’t try to fucking throw mud on my eyes. I haven’t lost all my common sense like you apparently have to trust a tool that can’t even get distances right.

Do you know what IBS gets The results of Africans distances correctly unlike the piece of shit G25 because it’s simply counts the matching SNPs !!

I can’t even imagine anyone defending insane results like above unless they are financially invested into the G 25 tool !

And who the fuck is DMXX some DJ ? Who cares about what some DJ thinks.

Don’t even bother replying to me unless you have some real scientific publications to post

The reason IBS can get distances to Africans right is it simply counts matching SNPs and is not vulnerable to the myriad of issues of PCAs which G25 is based on

IBS even gets the details of the distances right ! such as Eurasians being a little closer to Mbuti than Khomani San which if anyone here has followed the latest scientific papers it has been shown that even Mbuti got a little Middle Eastern admixture from the back-migration from the Middle East to Africa during the Ice Age


Matching SNPs with Iraqi Kurds

POPULATION IBD_AVERAGED IBS-AVG IBS_AVG_NORMALIZED
Kabardin 0.026515 0.7386 100
Armenian 0.033 0.73831 99.53
Lezgin 0.01825 0.738295 99.51
Abkhasian 0.0193 0.73811 99.21
Azeri_Dag 0.01478 0.73785 98.78
Gagauz 0.015765 0.73775 98.62
Georgian 0 0.73761 98.39
Turkish_Kayseri 0.0141 0.737535 98.27
Adygei 0 0.737485 98.19
Balkar 0.016715 0.737395 98.05
Kumyk 0.009585 0.737395 98.05
Ossetian 0 0.736915 97.27
Bulgarian 0 0.736515 96.62
Russians-Kursk 0.0103 0.73642 96.47
Spanish 0 0.736185 96.08
Tatars_Mishar 0 0.73587 95.57
German 0.00215 0.7356 95.14
French 0 0.73556 95.07
Russians-Tver 0 0.735535 95.03
Russians-Oryol 0 0.73546 94.91
Hungarian 0 0.73543 94.86
Sardinian 0 0.735385 94.79
Pashtun_Pak 0 0.73516 94.42
Basque 0 0.7351 94.33
Russians-Smolensk 0 0.73498 94.13
Tajik-Rushan 0.00095 0.734945 94.07
Russians-Vologda 0 0.73475 93.76
Tatars 0 0.734565 93.46
Tajik-Yagnobi 0 0.73426 92.96
Russians-Kostroma 0 0.73414 92.77
English 0 0.73404 92.61
Tajik-Shugnan 0.00092 0.73404 92.61
Estonian 0 0.73403 92.59
Finnish 0 0.733785 92.19
Tajik-Ishkashim 0.00269 0.733445 91.64
Russians 0 0.733415 91.59
BedouinB 0 0.733145 91.16
Tajik 0 0.733125 91.12
Komi 0 0.73304 90.99
Karelia 0 0.7329 90.76
Tatars_Kryashen 0 0.73253 90.16
Brahui 0 0.73178 88.94
Chuvash 0 0.73175 88.89
Kalash 0 0.731725 88.85
Udmurt 0 0.73147 88.44
Turkmen_Uzb 0 0.73144 88.39
Jordanian 0 0.731275 88.12
Balochi 0 0.73118 87.97
Sindhi 0 0.731155 87.93
Burusho 0 0.730805 87.36
Bashkir 0 0.729735 85.63
Punjabi 0 0.729275 84.88
Saami 0 0.728495 83.62
Uyghur 0 0.728365 83.4
Karakalpak 0 0.727035 81.25
Mansi 0 0.725105 78.12
Mozabite 0 0.72484 77.69
Saharawi 0 0.72461 77.32
Relli 0 0.72455 77.22
Kyrgyz 0 0.723695 75.83
Kirghiz 0 0.723625 75.72
Kalmyk 0 0.719635 69.25
Chukchi 0 0.71962 69.23
Nenets 0 0.719405 68.88
Buryat 0 0.718745 67.81
Mongol 0 0.718075 66.72
Burmese 0 0.715185 62.03
Yakut 0 0.71505 61.82
Mixtec 0 0.71443 60.81
Even 0 0.712985 58.47
Koryak 0 0.71184 56.61
Han 0 0.71172 56.42
Nganasan 0 0.710015 53.65
Dai 0 0.70994 53.53
Mayan 0 0.70719 49.07
Ami 0 0.707 48.76
Masai 0 0.702175 40.94
Karitiana 0 0.700875 38.83
Papuan 0 0.700475 38.18
Surui 0 0.700005 37.42
Yoruba 0 0.687495 17.14
Mbuti 0 0.679915 4.85
Khomani 0 0.676925 0


Matching SNPs with Yagnobi Tajiks

POPULATION IBD_AVERAGED IBS-AVG IBS_AVG_NORMALIZED
Tajik-Yagnobi 0.029945 0.743285 100
KURDS-IRAQ 0 0.73426 87.29
Kabardin 0 0.733095 85.65
Azeri_Dag 0 0.73253 84.85
Kumyk 0 0.7325 84.81
Adygei 0 0.73247 84.77
Gagauz 0 0.732455 84.75
Tajik-Rushan 0 0.732445 84.73
Abkhasian 0 0.732415 84.69
Russians-Kursk 0 0.732375 84.63
Lezgin 0 0.73232 84.56
German 0 0.732265 84.48
Balkar 0 0.732235 84.44
Russians-Tver 0 0.732235 84.44
Georgian 0 0.731985 84.08
Pashtun_Pak 0 0.731935 84.01
Armenian 0 0.731895 83.96
Ossetian 0 0.73188 83.94
Russians-Vologda 0 0.73187 83.92
Russians-Oryol 0 0.731825 83.86
Russians-Smolensk 0 0.73175 83.75
Russians-Kostroma 0 0.73148 83.37
Russians 0 0.73147 83.36
Estonian 0 0.731425 83.3
Tatars 0 0.731425 83.3
Tatars_Kryashen 0 0.73139 83.25
Bulgarian 0 0.73138 83.23
English 0 0.7313 83.12
Tajik-Shugnan 0 0.731255 83.06
Finnish 0 0.731145 82.9
Tajik-Ishkashim 0 0.731145 82.9
Spanish 0 0.730885 82.54
Tatars_Mishar 0 0.73089 82.54
Hungarian 0 0.730755 82.35
Komi 0 0.7307 82.27
Karelia 0 0.730585 82.11
Chuvash 0 0.73057 82.09
Turkish_Kayseri 0 0.73055 82.06
Tajik 0 0.7304 81.85
Udmurt 0 0.729965 81.24
Basque 0 0.72996 81.23
French 0 0.72965 80.8
Burusho 0 0.72866 79.4
Kalash 0 0.728575 79.28
Sindhi 0 0.7283 78.89
Turkmen_Uzb 0 0.728265 78.85
Bashkir 0 0.727955 78.41
Brahui 0 0.727925 78.37
Sardinian 0 0.727755 78.13
Punjabi 0 0.726765 76.73
Balochi 0 0.726485 76.34
Uyghur 0 0.72617 75.89
Saami 0 0.726125 75.83
Karakalpak 0 0.72526 74.61
BedouinB 0 0.72511 74.4
Jordanian 0 0.72427 73.22
Mansi 0 0.72407 72.94
Kirghiz 0 0.722585 70.85
Relli 0 0.72216 70.25
Kyrgyz 0 0.721775 69.7
Chukchi 0 0.72015 67.42
Nenets 0 0.719505 66.51
Kalmyk 0 0.71918 66.05
Saharawi 0 0.718125 64.56
Buryat 0 0.718 64.39
Mozabite 0 0.717395 63.54
Mongol 0 0.71686 62.78
Yakut 0 0.715135 60.35
Mixtec 0 0.714155 58.97
Burmese 0 0.71407 58.85
Even 0 0.712805 57.07
Koryak 0 0.71241 56.51
Han 0 0.71157 55.33
Dai 0 0.71042 53.71
Nganasan 0 0.709665 52.65
Mayan 0 0.70828 50.7
Ami 0 0.70782 50.05
Karitiana 0 0.702335 42.32
Surui 0 0.700375 39.56
Papuan 0 0.698115 36.38
Masai 0 0.69614 33.6
Yoruba 0 0.680625 11.75
Mbuti 0 0.674305 2.85
Khomani 0 0.672285 0

[Borealis]

If the G25 screws up the distances above so badly the 15% MUST also be wrong. It’s common sense !! You can’t wiggle your way around it so don’t try to fucking throw mud on my eyes. I haven’t lost all my common sense like you apparently have to trust a tool that can’t even get distances right.

Do you know what IBS gets The results of Africans distances correctly unlike the piece of shit G25 because it’s simply counts the matching SNPs !!

I can’t even imagine anyone defending insane results like above unless they are financially invested into the G 25 tool !

And who the fuck is DMXX some DJ ? Who cares about what some DJ thinks.

Don’t even bother replying to me unless you have some real scientific publications to post

The reason IBS can get distances to Africans right is it simply counts matching SNPs and is not vulnerable to the myriad of issues of PCAs which G25 is based on

IBS even gets the details of the distances right ! such as Eurasians being a little closer to Mbuti than Khomani San which if anyone here has followed the latest scientific papers it has been shown that even Mbuti got a little Middle Eastern admixture from the back-migration from the Middle East to Africa during the Ice Age


Matching SNPs with Iraqi Kurds

POPULATION IBD_AVERAGED IBS-AVG IBS_AVG_NORMALIZED
Kabardin 0.026515 0.7386 100
Armenian 0.033 0.73831 99.53
Lezgin 0.01825 0.738295 99.51
Abkhasian 0.0193 0.73811 99.21
Azeri_Dag 0.01478 0.73785 98.78
Gagauz 0.015765 0.73775 98.62
Georgian 0 0.73761 98.39
Turkish_Kayseri 0.0141 0.737535 98.27
Adygei 0 0.737485 98.19
Balkar 0.016715 0.737395 98.05
Kumyk 0.009585 0.737395 98.05
Ossetian 0 0.736915 97.27
Bulgarian 0 0.736515 96.62
Russians-Kursk 0.0103 0.73642 96.47
Spanish 0 0.736185 96.08
Tatars_Mishar 0 0.73587 95.57
German 0.00215 0.7356 95.14
French 0 0.73556 95.07
Russians-Tver 0 0.735535 95.03
Russians-Oryol 0 0.73546 94.91
Hungarian 0 0.73543 94.86
Sardinian 0 0.735385 94.79
Pashtun_Pak 0 0.73516 94.42
Basque 0 0.7351 94.33
Russians-Smolensk 0 0.73498 94.13
Tajik-Rushan 0.00095 0.734945 94.07
Russians-Vologda 0 0.73475 93.76
Tatars 0 0.734565 93.46
Tajik-Yagnobi 0 0.73426 92.96
Russians-Kostroma 0 0.73414 92.77
English 0 0.73404 92.61
Tajik-Shugnan 0.00092 0.73404 92.61
Estonian 0 0.73403 92.59
Finnish 0 0.733785 92.19
Tajik-Ishkashim 0.00269 0.733445 91.64
Russians 0 0.733415 91.59
BedouinB 0 0.733145 91.16
Tajik 0 0.733125 91.12
Komi 0 0.73304 90.99
Karelia 0 0.7329 90.76
Tatars_Kryashen 0 0.73253 90.16
Brahui 0 0.73178 88.94
Chuvash 0 0.73175 88.89
Kalash 0 0.731725 88.85
Udmurt 0 0.73147 88.44
Turkmen_Uzb 0 0.73144 88.39
Jordanian 0 0.731275 88.12
Balochi 0 0.73118 87.97
Sindhi 0 0.731155 87.93
Burusho 0 0.730805 87.36
Bashkir 0 0.729735 85.63
Punjabi 0 0.729275 84.88
Saami 0 0.728495 83.62
Uyghur 0 0.728365 83.4
Karakalpak 0 0.727035 81.25
Mansi 0 0.725105 78.12
Mozabite 0 0.72484 77.69
Saharawi 0 0.72461 77.32
Relli 0 0.72455 77.22
Kyrgyz 0 0.723695 75.83
Kirghiz 0 0.723625 75.72
Kalmyk 0 0.719635 69.25
Chukchi 0 0.71962 69.23
Nenets 0 0.719405 68.88
Buryat 0 0.718745 67.81
Mongol 0 0.718075 66.72
Burmese 0 0.715185 62.03
Yakut 0 0.71505 61.82
Mixtec 0 0.71443 60.81
Even 0 0.712985 58.47
Koryak 0 0.71184 56.61
Han 0 0.71172 56.42
Nganasan 0 0.710015 53.65
Dai 0 0.70994 53.53
Mayan 0 0.70719 49.07
Ami 0 0.707 48.76
Masai 0 0.702175 40.94
Karitiana 0 0.700875 38.83
Papuan 0 0.700475 38.18
Surui 0 0.700005 37.42
Yoruba 0 0.687495 17.14
Mbuti 0 0.679915 4.85
Khomani 0 0.676925 0


Matching SNPs with Yagnobi Tajiks

POPULATION IBD_AVERAGED IBS-AVG IBS_AVG_NORMALIZED
Tajik-Yagnobi 0.029945 0.743285 100
KURDS-IRAQ 0 0.73426 87.29
Kabardin 0 0.733095 85.65
Azeri_Dag 0 0.73253 84.85
Kumyk 0 0.7325 84.81
Adygei 0 0.73247 84.77
Gagauz 0 0.732455 84.75
Tajik-Rushan 0 0.732445 84.73
Abkhasian 0 0.732415 84.69
Russians-Kursk 0 0.732375 84.63
Lezgin 0 0.73232 84.56
German 0 0.732265 84.48
Balkar 0 0.732235 84.44
Russians-Tver 0 0.732235 84.44
Georgian 0 0.731985 84.08
Pashtun_Pak 0 0.731935 84.01
Armenian 0 0.731895 83.96
Ossetian 0 0.73188 83.94
Russians-Vologda 0 0.73187 83.92
Russians-Oryol 0 0.731825 83.86
Russians-Smolensk 0 0.73175 83.75
Russians-Kostroma 0 0.73148 83.37
Russians 0 0.73147 83.36
Estonian 0 0.731425 83.3
Tatars 0 0.731425 83.3
Tatars_Kryashen 0 0.73139 83.25
Bulgarian 0 0.73138 83.23
English 0 0.7313 83.12
Tajik-Shugnan 0 0.731255 83.06
Finnish 0 0.731145 82.9
Tajik-Ishkashim 0 0.731145 82.9
Spanish 0 0.730885 82.54
Tatars_Mishar 0 0.73089 82.54
Hungarian 0 0.730755 82.35
Komi 0 0.7307 82.27
Karelia 0 0.730585 82.11
Chuvash 0 0.73057 82.09
Turkish_Kayseri 0 0.73055 82.06
Tajik 0 0.7304 81.85
Udmurt 0 0.729965 81.24
Basque 0 0.72996 81.23
French 0 0.72965 80.8
Burusho 0 0.72866 79.4
Kalash 0 0.728575 79.28
Sindhi 0 0.7283 78.89
Turkmen_Uzb 0 0.728265 78.85
Bashkir 0 0.727955 78.41
Brahui 0 0.727925 78.37
Sardinian 0 0.727755 78.13
Punjabi 0 0.726765 76.73
Balochi 0 0.726485 76.34
Uyghur 0 0.72617 75.89
Saami 0 0.726125 75.83
Karakalpak 0 0.72526 74.61
BedouinB 0 0.72511 74.4
Jordanian 0 0.72427 73.22
Mansi 0 0.72407 72.94
Kirghiz 0 0.722585 70.85
Relli 0 0.72216 70.25
Kyrgyz 0 0.721775 69.7
Chukchi 0 0.72015 67.42
Nenets 0 0.719505 66.51
Kalmyk 0 0.71918 66.05
Saharawi 0 0.718125 64.56
Buryat 0 0.718 64.39
Mozabite 0 0.717395 63.54
Mongol 0 0.71686 62.78
Yakut 0 0.715135 60.35
Mixtec 0 0.714155 58.97
Burmese 0 0.71407 58.85
Even 0 0.712805 57.07
Koryak 0 0.71241 56.51
Han 0 0.71157 55.33
Dai 0 0.71042 53.71
Nganasan 0 0.709665 52.65
Mayan 0 0.70828 50.7
Ami 0 0.70782 50.05
Karitiana 0 0.702335 42.32
Surui 0 0.700375 39.56
Papuan 0 0.698115 36.38
Masai 0 0.69614 33.6
Yoruba 0 0.680625 11.75
Mbuti 0 0.674305 2.85
Khomani 0 0.672285 0

Do the IBS for Kurds

[Zoro]

Do the IBS for Kurds

The list above Yaghnobi Tajiks is for Kurds. It says it

[Zoro]

This is the same list as above for Iraqi Kurds but this one is sorted by IBD instead of IBS. IBD is more indicative of recent ancestry than IBS


<colgroup><col width="138"><col width="100"><col width="100"></colgroup><tbody>
POPULATION
IBD_AVERAGED
IBS_AVG_NORMALIZED


Armenian
0.033
99.53


Kabardin
0.026515
100


Abkhasian
0.0193
99.21


Lezgin
0.01825
99.51


Balkar
0.016715
98.05


Gagauz
0.015765
98.62


Azeri_Dag
0.01478
98.78


Turkish_Kayseri
0.0141
98.27


Russians-Kursk
0.0103
96.47


Kumyk
0.009585
98.05


Tajik-Ishkashim
0.00269
91.64


German
0.00215
95.14


Tajik-Rushan
0.00095
94.07


Tajik-Shugnan
0.00092
92.61


Georgian
0
98.39


Adygei
0
98.19


Ossetian
0
97.27


Bulgarian
0
96.62


Spanish
0
96.08


Tatars_Mishar
0
95.57


French
0
95.07


Russians-Tver
0
95.03


Russians-Oryol
0
94.91


Hungarian
0
94.86


Sardinian
0
94.79


Pashtun_Pak
0
94.42


Basque
0
94.33


Russians-Smolensk
0
94.13


Russians-Vologda
0
93.76


Tatars
0
93.46


Tajik-Yagnobi
0
92.96


Russians-Kostroma
0
92.77


English
0
92.61


Estonian
0
92.59


Finnish
0
92.19


Russians
0
91.59


BedouinB
0
91.16


Tajik
0
91.12


Komi
0
90.99


Karelia
0
90.76


Tatars_Kryashen
0
90.16


Brahui
0
88.94


Chuvash
0
88.89


Kalash
0
88.85


Udmurt
0
88.44


Turkmen_Uzb
0
88.39


Jordanian
0
88.12


Balochi
0
87.97


Sindhi
0
87.93


Burusho
0
87.36


Bashkir
0
85.63


Punjabi
0
84.88


Saami
0
83.62


Uyghur
0
83.4


Karakalpak
0
81.25


Mansi
0
78.12


Mozabite
0
77.69


Saharawi
0
77.32


Relli
0
77.22


Kyrgyz
0
75.83


Kirghiz
0
75.72


Kalmyk
0
69.25


Chukchi
0
69.23


Nenets
0
68.88


Buryat
0
67.81


Mongol
0
66.72


Burmese
0
62.03


Yakut
0
61.82


Mixtec
0
60.81


Even
0
58.47


Koryak
0
56.61


Han
0
56.42


Nganasan
0
53.65


Dai
0
53.53


Mayan
0
49.07


Ami
0
48.76


Masai
0
40.94


Karitiana
0
38.83


Papuan
0
38.18


Surui
0
37.42


Yoruba
0
17.14


Mbuti
0
4.85


Khomani
0
0

</tbody>
<style type="text/css">td {border: 1px solid #ccc;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}</style>

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Onge and Syrians be closer to Pygmy SSA than Saudis and Yemenis

It depends on what samples the averages are based on. Even on Eurogenes K13 Syrians' SSA percentage is the same as Saudis', but that doesn't mean that in reality Saudis may not have more on average. Again, it's a sampling issue. Yemenis are very varied in terms of SSA, with some having a lot of it (and in fact come before the populations you specified) and others having very little.


How can Pashtuns and Central Asians be closer Pygmy Africans than Iranian Lors and Fars.

The distance is about the same.


It's time to wake up and use just a tiny tiny piece of common sense and realize that this is beyond nonsense instead of making excuses for the nonsense results.

Kurds being +30% ANE is not any less nonsensical than the table I posted above. You practically discard components like Iran_N and CHG just to artificially increase ANE.


Remember one thing that if you cluster close to you ethnic group does not necessarily make the tool good. I can make French 80% SSA and 20% E Asian and still have them cluster close to other French. All I have to do is make other French and Europeans close to 80%SSA and 20% E Asian to do that. It doesn't mean my tool is good.

You could model French like that, but fit would be shitty.

[Borealis]

The list above Yaghnobi Tajiks is for Kurds. It says it

My bad, I meant Yemenis

[Borealis]

The list above Yaghnobi Tajiks is for Kurds. It says it

My bad, I meant Yemenis

[Zoro]

The distance is about the same.

.

No it isn't. This is what you posted which is total nonsense.Turkmen and Pashtuns and Nepalese closer to Pygmy Africans than Iranian Fars to Pygmy Africans !! Love it.

1.01373547 Turkmen_Uzbekistan
1.01374808 Balochi_A
1.01395383 Yemenite_Mahra
1.01419218 Nepalese_A2
1.01425095 Parsi_Pakistan
1.01453824 Pashtun_Kurram
1.01462337 Moroccan_Jew
1.01462484 Roma_Porto
1.01468434 Brahmin_West_Bengal
1.01470862 Roma_Bilbao
1.01478722 Roma_Balkans
1.01497336 Burusho
1.01525693 Roma_Madrid
1.01531282 Turkmen
1.01556893 Kshatriya
1.01559337 Kashmiri_Pandit
1.01568216 Brahmin_Gujarat
1.01568739 Iyer
1.01578508 Sindhi
1.01605894 Punjabi_Sikh_India
1.01611599 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
1.01624653 Kohistani
1.01632264 Khatri
1.01636795 Nepalese_B
1.01643086 Rajput_Rajasthan
1.01644810 Sephardic_Jew_o
1.01649637 Brahmin_Tamil_Nadu
1.01651882 Kamboj
1.01657134 Punjabi_Lahore
1.01658101 Nepalese_A
1.01661103 Karaite_Egypt
1.01664579 Gujar_India
1.01667493 Yusufzai
1.01669774 Turkish_South
1.01672955 Khatri_o
1.01685766 Tarkalani
1.01699645 Sri_Lankan
1.01720973 Uthmankhel
1.01723683 Bahun
1.01739093 Punjabi_Hindu_India
1.01741359 Iranian_Lor
1.01745569 Iranian_Fars




Kurds being +30% ANE is not any less nonsensical than the table I posted above. You practically discard components like Iran_N and CHG just to artificially increase ANE

Where did you see this ? I had posted IBS results not admixture proportions. But since you mentioned if Kurds got some of their ANE from Iran-N and CHG and then from Indo-Iranians what's the problem ??


You could model French like that, but fit would be shitty.

No it wouldn't. What makes you think the model would be shitty ? In fact the distances would be actually good if my calculator showed French as 50% SSA and 50% E Asian as long as other French and neigboring countries were similar to those values. French would cluster with French and with other Europeans. That's why you should NEVER EVER judge a calculator simply because you cluster close to your countrymen because the admixture percentages could still be fucked up. Based on the nonsense distances you just posted for the G25 and nonsense distances others have posted for the G25 the admixture percentages of the G25 MUST be wrong. Truth hurts sometimes but thanks to you and others my list of evidence of flaws keeps growing .

You wouldn't be surprised either if you read all the scientific papers showing how PCAs which G25 is based on have all sorts of big problems.

[Zoro]

The above lists were limited to 200K SNPs because I also added the Turkic dataset but if I just use the whole genome Simons dataset by itself I can get 16 million SNPs and the results change a little. This list is sorted by IBD first then IBS

Iraqi Kurds 16 million SNPs. The African ordering is still correct


<tbody>
POPULATION
IBD_AVERAGED
IBS_AVG_NORMALIZED


Pashtun_Pak
0.0723
97.43


Lezgin
0.04015
100


Tajik
0.039
95.49


Abkhasian
0.038425
99.06


Adygei
0.037425
98.03


Armenian
0.0373
99.43


Georgian
0.037175
98.41


Brahui
0.035875
94.48


Hungarian
0.018225
96.39


Turkish_Kayseri
0.017975
98.05


Bulgarian
0.017125
97.68


Ossetian
0
97.03


Sardinian
0
96.1


Basque
0
95.94


Spanish
0
95.92


French
0
95.72


Estonian
0
95.4


BedouinB
0
95.12


English
0
95.05


Finnish
0
94.84


Russian
0
93.94


Kalash
0
93.93


Balochi
0
93.78


Sindhi
0
91.03


Burusho
0
90.49


Jordanian
0
89.67


Uygur
0
89.6


Punjabi
0
87.66


Saami
0
87.48


Mansi
0
83.93


Relli
0
82.9


Kyrgyz
0
81.5


Saharawi
0
77.53


Mozabite
0
76.7


Yakut
0
74.01


Burmese
0
71.68


Mixtec
0
70.88


Han
0
70.85


Even
0
70.7


Dai
0
68.6


Paleo-Siberian-Kolyma
0
66.1


Mayan
0
63.8


Ami
0
62.8


Karitiana

0
56.87


Surui
0
56.37


Papuan
0
51.61


Masai
0
39.76


Luhya
0
15.16


Yoruba
0
11.53


Mbuti
0
3.78


Khomani
0
0

</tbody>
<style type="text/css">td {border: 1px solid #ccc;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}</style>

[Ajeje Brazorf]

No it isn't. This is what you posted which is total nonsense.Turkmen and Pashtuns and Nepalese closer to Pygmy Africans than Iranian Fars to Pygmy Africans !!

They are superficial distances not real affinities, ergo it changes little between 1.014 and 1.017


Love it.

Then you will also love the ancient samples edition :)


Distance to: Ju_hoan_North:B_Ju_hoan_North-4
0.52803663 MWI_Hora_9000BP:I2966
0.59347361 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP:I0589
0.63450480 CMR_Shum_Laka_8000BP:I10871
0.64442420 CMR_Shum_Laka_8000BP:I10872
0.92258818 MAR_Taforalt:TAF014
0.92298632 MAR_Taforalt:TAF009
0.93005201 MAR_Taforalt:TAF013
0.93083106 MAR_Taforalt:TAF011
0.93270966 MAR_EN:IAM.5
0.93482770 MAR_Taforalt:TAF010
0.94254740 RUS_Ust_Ishim:Ust_Ishim
0.97546844 RUS_Sunghir:Sunghir4
0.97967279 RUS_Yana_UP:Yana2
0.98024536 RUS_Sunghir:Sunghir2
0.98107539 RUS_Kostenki14:Kostenki14
0.98225160 RUS_Sunghir:Sunghir1
0.98392760 RUS_Sunghir:Sunghir3
0.98609021 RUS_Yana_UP:Yana1
0.98624641 CZE_Vestonice16:Vestonice16
0.99049545 BEL_GoyetQ116-1:Q116-1
0.99072648 CZE_Krems_UP:I2484
0.99239511 CHN_Amur_River_33000BP:NE20
0.99412896 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483
0.99433800 CHN_Tianyuan:TY
0.99542558 CZE_Krems_UP:I2483_I2484_merge
0.99599598 LAO_Hoabinhian:La368
1.00371130 IRN_Tepe_Abdul_Hosein_N:AH2
1.00736195 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1947
1.00831592 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1290
1.00965704 Levant_Natufian_contam:I1072
1.01204280 IRN_Wezmeh_N:WC1
1.01407178 IRN_Seh_Gabi_LN:I1671
1.01417265 IRN_Tepe_Abdul_Hosein_N:AH1
1.01531365 Levant_PPNB:BAJ001
1.01776217 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954
1.01860720 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351
1.02036922 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4349
1.02213273 IRN_Tepe_Abdul_Hosein_N:AH4
1.02269680 BEL_GoyetQ2:GoyetQ2
1.02452431 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:POT002
1.02607139 Levant_PPNC:I1699
1.02627747 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I2323
1.02650798 AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:MTT001
1.02675347 IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4241
1.03194298 RUS_MA1:MA1
1.03426186 Iberia_ElMiron:ElMiron
1.03432300 Levant_PPNB:I0867
1.03784320 GEO_CHG:KK1
1.03797804 TUR_Buyukkaya_EC:CBT018
1.03839042 DEU_LBK_SMH:SMH004.A0101
1.03967209 TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD003
1.04041897 TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZKO_BON001
1.04301202 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep003
1.04302913 TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZHAJ_BON034
1.04367219 TUR_Barcin_N:I1102
1.04374528 TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZHJ_BON024
1.04379305 CHN_Baojianshan_7300BP:Baojianshan5_M1
1.04456017 TUR_Barcin_N:I1098
1.04465318 DEU_LBK_SCH:SCH010.A0101
1.04503992 TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZHAG_BON004
1.04598932 BGR_MP_N:I1108
1.04606537 BGR_N:I2529
1.04608236 TUR_Barcin_N:I1099
1.04649520 DEU_LBK_SCH:SCH016.A0101
1.04680056 FRA_EN_PEN:PEN003.A0101
1.04753914 DEU_LBK_SMH:I0022
1.04792822 BGR_N:I2521
1.04805849 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep002
1.04839393 HUN_Bu_kk_MN:I1499
1.04861172 TUR_Barcin_N:I1581
1.04942240 TUR_Barcin_N:I1100
1.04950249 Iberia_N:I0412
1.04953530 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep004
1.04964359 TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZMOJ_BON014
1.04964709 ITA_Ripabianca_di_Monterado_N:RMPR16
1.04977138 FRA_MN_OBN:OBN006.A0101
1.04990652 HUN_ALPc_I_MN:I4188
1.04997628 TUR_Barcin_N:I1101
1.05015464 HUN_ALPc_MN:I1505
1.05040765 TUR_Barcin_N:I1103
1.05050261 TUR_Pinarbasi_HG:ZBC_IPB001
1.05053957 AUT_LBK_N:I5204
1.05060623 HUN_Vinca_MN:I1895
1.05088972 ITA_Ripabianca_di_Monterado_N:RMPR17
1.05145177 HUN_Koros_N_contam:I2373
1.05153902 TUR_Barcin_N:I0708
1.05178461 HUN_Vinca_MN:I1887
1.05184971 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN167
1.05198760 HUN_ALPc_MN:I1498
1.05226140 DEU_LBK_SMH:I0025
1.05265859 DEU_LBK_SCH:SCH014.A0101
1.05304344 AUT_LBK_N:I5068
1.05313152 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN166
1.05344421 DEU_LBK_HBS:I2032
1.05350066 TUR_Barcin_N:I0723
1.05350771 GRC_N:I5427
1.05355586 HUN_ALPc_MN:I11929
1.05383821 HUN_ALPc_Szakalhat_MN:I2744
1.05387294 BGR_N:I0698
1.05412692 TUR_Barcin_N:I0745
1.05418328 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN170
1.05422580 HUN_Starcevo_N:I1878
1.05445676 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN175
1.05456837 TUR_Barcin_N:I0746
1.05459725 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_N:RMPR3
1.05488056 HUN_Koros_N:I2794
1.05491356 ITA_Monte_San_Biagio_CA:RMPR1014
1.05497073 GRC_Peloponnese_N:I2937
1.05500649 BGR_N:I2526
1.05517403 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_N:RMPR8
1.05518583 HRV_Impressa_N:I5072
1.05529138 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_N:RMPR9
1.05533326 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN172
1.05537373 FRA_ENMN_LBR:LBR005.merged
1.05546813 HUN_LBK_MN:I1904
1.05568028 CHN_Qihe_11500BP:Qihe3
1.05574183 HUN_Starcevo_N:I1880
1.05579433 Iberia_N:I0409
1.05583108 TUR_Barcin_N:I1583
1.05584229 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_N:RMPR2
1.05585752 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_N:RMPR10
1.05586797 HUN_Starcevo_N:I1877
1.05589521 Iberia_N:I0410
1.05603248 TUR_Barcin_N:I0744
1.05608740 HUN_LBK_MN:I2739
1.05630587 HUN_ALPc_Tiszadob_MN:I2379
1.05636957 DEU_LBK_HBS:I0057
1.05649927 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG_o:I5232
1.05654950 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN171
1.05658367 Iberia_Southeast_Meso:I10899
1.05671601 FRA_ENMN_LBR:LBR002.A0101
1.05674503 HUN_ALPc_III_MN:I2384
1.05674628 TUR_Barcin_N:I0707
1.05683030 HRV_Sopot_MN:I5077
1.05685796 DEU_LBK_HBS:I0659
1.05691217 Iberia_N:I2199
1.05693627 HUN_ALPc_MN:I1500
1.05706768 DEU_LBK_HBS:I2036
1.05730061 TUR_Barcin_N:I1097
1.05740242 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN164
1.05751982 DEU_LBK_HBS:I1550
1.05755835 DEU_LBK_UW:I0054
1.05765451 MKD_N:I0676
1.05766633 AUT_LBK_N:I5208
1.05794309 ITA_Ripabianca_di_Monterado_N:RMPR19
1.05804277 TUR_Barcin_N:I1096
1.05813579 TUR_Barcin_N:I0736
1.05820878 DEU_LBK_HBS:I2030
1.05823487 SRB_Starcevo_N:I4918
1.05828870 RUS_Karelia_HG:UzOO77
1.05838068 RUS_Samara_HG:I0124
1.05844974 RUS_AfontovaGora3:AfontovaGora3
1.05860811 AUT_LBK_N:I5070
1.05874175 HRV_Cardial_N:I3947
1.05874232 AUT_LBK_N:I5205
1.05878998 SRB_N:I0633
1.05886601 DEU_LBK_SMH:I0026
1.05887932 AUT_LBK_N:I5206
1.05899415 DEU_LBK_HBS:I0046
1.05906143 RUS_Ust_Kyakhta:UKY001
1.05922339 ITA_Ripabianca_di_Monterado_N:RMPR18
1.05924561 CHN_Dushan_8700BP:Dushan4_1
1.05930345 HUN_ALPc_Tiszadob_MN:I2377
1.05931222 HUN_ALPc_Tiszadob_MN:I4199
1.05931639 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN168
1.05935420 HUN_ALPc_Szatmar_MN:I2380
1.05974894 AUT_LBK_N:I5207
1.05990987 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN165
1.06008907 USA_Alaska_TrailCreek_9000BP:TrailCreek
1.06033126 FRA_EN_PEN:PEN001_real1
1.06042528 DEU_LBK_HBS:I2038
1.06043979 Iberia_Southwest_EN:I10942
1.06059816 HUN_ALPc_MN:I11933
1.06064261 CHN_Qihe_N:Qihe2_d
1.06067234 AUT_LBK_N:I5069
1.06071799 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_N_o:RMPR6
1.06089548 TUR_Barcin_N:I0709
1.06103711 ROU_N:I2533
1.06113731 DEU_LBK_HBS:I0048
1.06134747 HRV_Cardial_N:I3948
1.06147933 TUR_Barcin_N:I1580
1.06160856 RUS_Sidelkino_HG:Sidelkino
1.06168722 ROU_N:I2532
1.06208828 HRV_Sopot_MN:I3498
1.06240294 HUN_ALPc_Tiszadob_MN:I2376
1.06329174 DEU_LBK_HBS:I0056
1.06392407 FRA_EN_PEN:PEN001_real2
1.06400670 DEU_LBK_SMH:XN169
1.06405500 HUN_LBK_MN:I4196
1.06458147 HRV_Impressa_N:I5071
1.06459331 UKR_Meso:I1819
1.06497316 NOR_Meso:Hum1
1.06528381 HRV_Cardial_N:I3433
1.06552729 Iberia_Northwest_Meso:Chan
1.06595794 Iberia_N:mur
1.06671884 UKR_N:I1734
1.06684476 UKR_N:I1736
1.06717695 USA_Ancient_Beringian:USR1
1.06728774 RUS_Kolyma_Meso:Kolyma_River
1.06733505 UKR_Meso:I1763
1.06785780 RUS_Tyumen_HG:I1960
1.06802181 Iberia_N:I0413
1.06868370 UKR_Meso:I5876
1.06879843 RUS_Karelia_HG:I0061
1.06938748 NOR_Meso:Hum2
1.06950529 UKR_N:I3717
1.07011351 UKR_N:I4114
1.07055457 UKR_N:I1738
1.07137517 UKR_N:I5875
1.07186938 UKR_N:I3715
1.07300939 UKR_N:I5890
1.07334400 SWE_Motala_HG:I0013
1.07382299 UKR_N:I1732
1.07407778 CHN_Liangdao1_N:LD1
1.07479287 Baltic_LVA_HG:I4630
1.07590839 CHN_Liangdao2_N:LD2
1.07713479 ROU_Meso:I2534
1.07762929 RUS_Lokomotiv_N:DA359
1.07786216 RUS_Ust_Belaya:I7759
1.07798361 SWE_Motala_HG:I0011
1.07821741 UKR_N:I3718
1.07875004 Iberia_Northeast_UP_Azilian:BAL051
1.07907135 CHN_Amur_River_19000BP:NE56
1.07936066 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5772
1.07946982 ROU_Iron_Gates_HG:I4081
1.07982875 Baltic_LVA_HG:I4440
1.08038694 RUS_Buryatia_M:irk00x
1.08107999 Baltic_LVA_HG:I4628
1.08127443 RUS_Shamanka_N:DA252
1.08266229 RUS_Lokomotiv_N:DA340
1.08272817 SWE_Meso:SF12
1.08419596 SWE_Meso:SF9
1.08430431 MNG_North_N:I13701
1.08495406 RUS_Boisman_MN:I3354
1.08498328 Baltic_LVA_HG:I4438
1.08509190 RUS_Shamanka_N:DA253
1.08511598 SWE_Meso:SBj
1.08517872 SWE_Motala_HG:I0014
1.08544482 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I4915
1.08546922 RUS_Shamanka_N:DA250
1.08621531 CHN_Xiaogao_N:Xiaogao
1.08672068 CHN_Yumin_N:Yumin
1.08675811 RUS_Angara_River_EN:irk051
1.08684050 Iberia_Northwest_Meso:Canes
1.08689361 Baltic_LTU_Narva:Donkalnis7
1.08708763 ROU_Iron_Gates_HG:I4582
1.08720958 Baltic_LVA_HG:I4551
1.08730187 CHN_Xiaojingshan_N:XJS1311_M16
1.08741161 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5409
1.08776843 Baltic_LVA_HG:I4434
1.08801752 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5236
1.08806865 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5238
1.08809511 Baltic_LVA_HG:I4626
1.08896325 ROU_Iron_Gates_HG:I4607
1.08904468 SWE_Motala_HG:I0015
1.08956183 ROU_Iron_Gates_N:I5408
1.08958219 Baltic_LVA_HG:I4595
1.08985638 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5242
1.09005285 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5244
1.09065303 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5239
1.09081902 MNG_North_N:I11698
1.09122398 RUS_Shamanka_N:DA247
1.09127204 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5401
1.09135924 MNG_North_N:I13179
1.09162682 CHN_Amur_River_14100BP:NE-5
1.09179461 RUS_Shamanka_N:DA248
1.09182193 ROU_Iron_Gates_HG:I5411
1.09183158 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I4880
1.09186839 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5235
1.09220701 RUS_Lokomotiv_N:DA341
1.09247849 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N:NEO240
1.09275982 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5240
1.09289408 Baltic_LVA_HG:I4553
1.09295822 Baltic_LVA_HG:I4596
1.09299556 HUN_Koros_N_HG:I4971
1.09311729 Baltic_LVA_HG:I4552
1.09316294 MNG_North_N:I14000
1.09324234 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5234
1.09339411 RUS_Shamanka_N:DA245
1.09361707 Baltic_LVA_HG:I4632
1.09366876 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I4877
1.09367138 CHN_Amur_River_14500BP:NE34
1.09385205 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5402
1.09390398 CHN_Bianbian_N:Bianbian
1.09392945 CHN_Amur_River_10500BP:NE-4
1.09394807 Baltic_LVA_HG:I4439
1.09399057 SWE_Motala_HG:I0012
1.09401485 CHN_Boshan_N:BS
1.09452801 CHN_Xiaojingshan_N:XJS1309_M4
1.09482171 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I4917
1.09508342 MNG_North_N:I13698
1.09560921 Baltic_LVA_HG:I4432
1.09580444 RUS_Shamanka_N:DA246
1.09587983 MNG_East_N:I6358
1.09601953 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I4914
1.09608509 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I4916
1.09635389 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I4872
1.09693225 CHN_Amur_River_8100BP:NE39
1.09706596 CHN_Amur_River_8900BP:NE35
1.09735123 RUS_Lokomotiv_N:DA357
1.09736081 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I4876
1.09786004 RUS_Argun_River_Meso:cta016
1.09791939 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I4878
1.09805339 RUS_Shamanka_N:DA362
1.09846544 MNG_North_N:I11697
1.09848092 RUS_Shamanka_N:DA251
1.09859792 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5237
1.09867176 CHN_Amur_River_10600BP:NE-3
1.09880780 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I4871
1.09918215 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I4874
1.09923916 Baltic_LVA_HG:I4550
1.09925294 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5233
1.09938518 MNG_North_N:I11696
1.09991812 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I5407
1.10004360 RUS_Shamanka_N:DA249
1.10052969 MNG_East_N:I7021
1.10089185 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N:NEO238
1.10202529 RUS_Devils_Gate_Cave_N:NEO236
1.10206656 Wales_Meso:I6754
1.10226448 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I4870
1.10259860 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I4873
1.10278136 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I4875
1.10298364 WHG:I1875
1.10408464 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG:I4881
1.10443187 RUS_Boisman_MN:I1206
1.10452275 RUS_Trans-Baikal_N:brn008
1.10539378 Baltic_LTU_Meso:Spiginas4
1.10571077 ITA_Villabruna:Villabruna
1.10654089 Wales_Meso:SB460A3_lib
1.10787262 CHN_Amur_River_7000BP:NE19
1.10837220 DEU_Meso_BDB:BDB001.merged
1.10946407 RUS_Lena_River_EN:irk007
1.11183893 FRA_Nouvelle_Aquitaine_Meso:PER503
1.11401730 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso:RMPR11
1.11785367 USA_WA_Kennewick:kennewick
1.11882204 England_Mesolithic:I6767
1.12528255 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso:RMPR7
1.12644956 LUX_Loschbour:I0001
1.13246560 BRA_Sumidouro_10100BP:Sumidouro4
1.13392730 ITA_Grotta_Continenza_Meso:RMPR15
1.13782010 USA_Anzick:Anzick
1.13975652 BRA_Sumidouro_10100BP:Sumidouro7
1.14213308 BRA_Sumidouro_10100BP:Sumidouro6
1.15157495 BRA_Sumidouro_10100BP:Sumidouro5
1.15232197 BLZ_SakiTzul_7400BP:I5457
1.15278110 CHL_PuntaSantaAna_7300BP:SA5832
1.15335136 BLZ_SakiTzul_7400BP:I5456
1.15640340 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP:CP25
1.15687050 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP:CP22
1.15736783 CHL_LosRieles_10900BP:I11974
1.15896091 USA_Spirit_Cave_11000BP:AHUR_2064
1.16040514 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP:CP21
1.16154468 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP:CP23
1.16235302 ARG_ArroyoSeco2_7700BP:I0309
1.16250416 ARG_ArroyoSeco2_7700BP:I0308
1.16416911 PER_Lauricocha_8600BP:I0038
1.16490089 BLZ_MayahakCabPek_9300BP:I3443
1.16542366 PER_Cuncaicha_9000BP:CP29
1.16626573 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP:CP18
1.16636378 ARG_ArroyoSeco2_7700BP:I2230
1.17502318 PER_Lauricocha_8600BP:I0041


The above lists were limited to 200K SNPs because I also added the Turkic dataset but if I just use the whole genome Simons dataset by itself I can get 16 million SNPs and the results change a little. This list is sorted by IBD first then IBS

Iraqi Kurds 16 million SNPs. The African ordering is still correct


<tbody>
POPULATION
IBD_AVERAGED
IBS_AVG_NORMALIZED


Pashtun_Pak
0.0723
97.43


Lezgin
0.04015
100


Tajik
0.039
95.49


Abkhasian
0.038425
99.06


Adygei
0.037425
98.03


Armenian
0.0373
99.43


Georgian
0.037175
98.41


Brahui
0.035875
94.48


Hungarian
0.018225
96.39


Turkish_Kayseri
0.017975
98.05


Bulgarian
0.017125
97.68


Ossetian
0
97.03


Sardinian
0
96.1


Basque
0
95.94


Spanish
0
95.92


French
0
95.72


Estonian
0
95.4


BedouinB
0
95.12


English
0
95.05


Finnish
0
94.84


Russian
0
93.94


Kalash
0
93.93


Balochi
0
93.78


Sindhi
0
91.03


Burusho
0
90.49


Jordanian
0
89.67


Uygur
0
89.6


Punjabi
0
87.66


Saami
0
87.48


Mansi
0
83.93


Relli
0
82.9


Kyrgyz
0
81.5


Saharawi
0
77.53


Mozabite
0
76.7


Yakut
0
74.01


Burmese
0
71.68


Mixtec
0
70.88


Han
0
70.85


Even
0
70.7


Dai
0
68.6


Paleo-Siberian-Kolyma
0
66.1


Mayan
0
63.8


Ami
0
62.8


Karitiana

0
56.87


Surui
0
56.37


Papuan
0
51.61


Masai
0
39.76


Luhya
0
15.16


Yoruba
0
11.53


Mbuti
0
3.78


Khomani
0
0

</tbody>
<style type="text/css">td {border: 1px solid #ccc;}br {mso-data-placement:same-cell;}</style>

Closer to Lezgins than to Armenians? Lol.

[Zoro]

They are superficial distances not real affinities, ergo it changes little between 1.014 and 1.017



Then you will also love the ancient samples edition :)


<colgroup width="119"></colgroup> <colgroup width="203"></colgroup> <colgroup width="224"></colgroup> <tbody>
NO
Distance
Ju_hoan_North:B_Ju_hoan_North-4


1
0.52804
MWI_Hora_9000BP:I2966


2
0.59347
TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP:I0589


3
0.63450
CMR_Shum_Laka_8000BP:I10871


4
0.64442
CMR_Shum_Laka_8000BP:I10872


5
0.92259
MAR_Taforalt:TAF014


6
0.92299
MAR_Taforalt:TAF009


7
0.93005
MAR_Taforalt:TAF013


8
0.93083
MAR_Taforalt:TAF011


9
0.93271
MAR_EN:IAM.5


10
0.93483
MAR_Taforalt:TAF010


11
0.94255
RUS_Ust_Ishim:Ust_Ishim


12
0.97547
RUS_Sunghir:Sunghir4


13
0.97967
RUS_Yana_UP:Yana2


14
0.98025
RUS_Sunghir:Sunghir2


15
0.98108
RUS_Kostenki14:Kostenki14


16
0.98225
RUS_Sunghir:Sunghir1


17
0.98393
RUS_Sunghir:Sunghir3


18
0.98609
RUS_Yana_UP:Yana1


19
0.98625
CZE_Vestonice16:Vestonice16


20
0.99050
BEL_GoyetQ116-1:Q116-1


21
0.99073
CZE_Krems_UP:I2484


22
0.99240
CHN_Amur_River_33000BP:NE20


23
0.99413
CZE_Krems_UP:I2483


24
0.99434
CHN_Tianyuan:TY


25
0.99543
CZE_Krems_UP:I2483_I2484_merge


26
0.99600
LAO_Hoabinhian:La368


27
1.00371
IRN_Tepe_Abdul_Hosein_N:AH2


28
1.00736
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1947


29
1.00832
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1290


30
1.00966
Levant_Natufian_contam:I1072


31
1.01204
IRN_Wezmeh_N:WC1


32
1.01407
IRN_Seh_Gabi_LN:I1671


33
1.01417
IRN_Tepe_Abdul_Hosein_N:AH1


34
1.01531
Levant_PPNB:BAJ001


35
1.01776
IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N:I1954


36
1.01861
IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4351


37
1.02037
IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4349


38
1.02213
IRN_Tepe_Abdul_Hosein_N:AH4


39
1.02270
BEL_GoyetQ2:GoyetQ2


40
1.02452
AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:POT002


41
1.02607
Levant_PPNC:I1699


42
1.02628
IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I2323


43
1.02651
AZE_Caucasus_lowlands_LN:MTT001


44
1.02675
IRN_Hajji_Firuz_C:I4241


45
1.03194
RUS_MA1:MA1


46
1.03426
Iberia_ElMiron:ElMiron


47
1.03432
Levant_PPNB:I0867


48
1.03784
GEO_CHG:KK1


49
1.03798
TUR_Buyukkaya_EC:CBT018


50
1.03839
DEU_LBK_SMH:SMH004.A0101


51
1.03967
TUR_Tell_Kurdu_EC:KRD003


52
1.04042
TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZKO_BON001


53
1.04301
TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep003


54
1.04303
TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZHAJ_BON034


55
1.04367
TUR_Barcin_N:I1102


56
1.04375
TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZHJ_BON024


57
1.04379
CHN_Baojianshan_7300BP:Baojianshan5_M1


58
1.04456
TUR_Barcin_N:I1098


59
1.04465
DEU_LBK_SCH:SCH010.A0101


60
1.04504
TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZHAG_BON004


61
1.04599
BGR_MP_N:I1108


62
1.04607
BGR_N:I2529


63
1.04608
TUR_Barcin_N:I1099


64
1.04650
DEU_LBK_SCH:SCH016.A0101


65
1.04680
FRA_EN_PEN:PEN003.A0101


66
1.04754
DEU_LBK_SMH:I0022


67
1.04793
BGR_N:I2521


68
1.04806
TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep002


69
1.04839
HUN_Bu_kk_MN:I1499


70
1.04861
TUR_Barcin_N:I1581


71
1.04942
TUR_Barcin_N:I1100


72
1.04950
Iberia_N:I0412


73
1.04954
TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N:Tep004


74
1.04964
TUR_Boncuklu_N:ZMOJ_BON014


75
1.04965
ITA_Ripabianca_di_Monterado_N:RMPR16


76
1.04977
FRA_MN_OBN:OBN006.A0101


77
1.04991
HUN_ALPc_I_MN:I4188


78
1.04998
TUR_Barcin_N:I1101


79
1.05015
HUN_ALPc_MN:I1505


80
1.05041
TUR_Barcin_N:I1103


81
1.05050
TUR_Pinarbasi_HG:ZBC_IPB001


82
1.05054
AUT_LBK_N:I5204


83
1.05061
HUN_Vinca_MN:I1895


84
1.05089
ITA_Ripabianca_di_Monterado_N:RMPR17


85
1.05145
HUN_Koros_N_contam:I2373


86
1.05154
TUR_Barcin_N:I0708


87
1.05178
HUN_Vinca_MN:I1887


88
1.05185
DEU_LBK_SMH:XN167


89
1.05199
HUN_ALPc_MN:I1498


90
1.05226
DEU_LBK_SMH:I0025


91
1.05266
DEU_LBK_SCH:SCH014.A0101


92
1.05304
AUT_LBK_N:I5068


93
1.05313
DEU_LBK_SMH:XN166


94
1.05344
DEU_LBK_HBS:I2032


95
1.05350
TUR_Barcin_N:I0723


96
1.05351
GRC_N:I5427


97
1.05356
HUN_ALPc_MN:I11929


98
1.05384
HUN_ALPc_Szakalhat_MN:I2744


99
1.05387
BGR_N:I0698


100
1.05413
TUR_Barcin_N:I0745


101
1.05418
DEU_LBK_SMH:XN170


102
1.05423
HUN_Starcevo_N:I1878


103
1.05446
DEU_LBK_SMH:XN175


104
1.05457
TUR_Barcin_N:I0746


105
1.05460
ITA_Grotta_Continenza_N:RMPR3


106
1.05488
HUN_Koros_N:I2794


107
1.05491
ITA_Monte_San_Biagio_CA:RMPR1014


108
1.05497
GRC_Peloponnese_N:I2937


109
1.05501
BGR_N:I2526


110
1.05517
ITA_Grotta_Continenza_N:RMPR8


111
1.05519
HRV_Impressa_N:I5072


112
1.05529
ITA_Grotta_Continenza_N:RMPR9


113
1.05533
DEU_LBK_SMH:XN172


114
1.05537
FRA_ENMN_LBR:LBR005.merged


115
1.05547
HUN_LBK_MN:I1904


116
1.05568
CHN_Qihe_11500BP:Qihe3


117
1.05574
HUN_Starcevo_N:I1880


118
1.05579
Iberia_N:I0409


119
1.05583
TUR_Barcin_N:I1583


120
1.05584
ITA_Grotta_Continenza_N:RMPR2


121
1.05586
ITA_Grotta_Continenza_N:RMPR10


122
1.05587
HUN_Starcevo_N:I1877


123
1.05590
Iberia_N:I0410


124
1.05603
TUR_Barcin_N:I0744


125
1.05609
HUN_LBK_MN:I2739


126
1.05631
HUN_ALPc_Tiszadob_MN:I2379


127
1.05637
DEU_LBK_HBS:I0057


128
1.05650
SRB_Iron_Gates_HG_o:I5232


129
1.05655
DEU_LBK_SMH:XN171


130
1.05658
Iberia_Southeast_Meso:I10899


131
1.05672
FRA_ENMN_LBR:LBR002.A0101


132
1.05675
HUN_ALPc_III_MN:I2384


133
1.05675
TUR_Barcin_N:I0707


134
1.05683
HRV_Sopot_MN:I5077


135
1.05686
DEU_LBK_HBS:I0659


136
1.05691
Iberia_N:I2199


137
1.05694
HUN_ALPc_MN:I1500


138
1.05707
DEU_LBK_HBS:I2036


139
1.05730
TUR_Barcin_N:I1097


140
1.05740
DEU_LBK_SMH:XN164


141
1.05752
DEU_LBK_HBS:I1550


142
1.05756
DEU_LBK_UW:I0054


143
1.05765
MKD_N:I0676


144
1.05767
AUT_LBK_N:I5208


145
1.05794
ITA_Ripabianca_di_Monterado_N:RMPR19


146
1.05804
TUR_Barcin_N:I1096


147
1.05814
TUR_Barcin_N:I0736


148
1.05821
DEU_LBK_HBS:I2030


149
1.05823
SRB_Starcevo_N:I4918


150
1.05829
RUS_Karelia_HG:UzOO77


151
1.05838
RUS_Samara_HG:I0124


152
1.05845
RUS_AfontovaGora3:AfontovaGora3


153
1.05861
AUT_LBK_N:I5070


154
1.05874
HRV_Cardial_N:I3947


155
1.05874
AUT_LBK_N:I5205


156
1.05879
SRB_N:I0633


157
1.05887
DEU_LBK_SMH:I0026


158
1.05888
AUT_LBK_N:I5206


159
1.05899
DEU_LBK_HBS:I0046



160
1.05906
RUS_Ust_Kyakhta:UKY001


161
1.05922
ITA_Ripabianca_di_Monterado_N:RMPR18


162
1.05925
CHN_Dushan_8700BP:Dushan4_1


163
1.05930
HUN_ALPc_Tiszadob_MN:I2377


164
1.05931
HUN_ALPc_Tiszadob_MN:I4199


165
1.05932
DEU_LBK_SMH:XN168


166
1.05935
HUN_ALPc_Szatmar_MN:I2380


167
1.05975
AUT_LBK_N:I5207


168
1.05991
DEU_LBK_SMH:XN165


169
1.06009
USA_Alaska_TrailCreek_9000BP:TrailCreek


170
1.06033
FRA_EN_PEN:PEN001_real1


171
1.06043
DEU_LBK_HBS:I2038


172
1.06044
Iberia_Southwest_EN:I10942


173
1.06060
HUN_ALPc_MN:I11933


174
1.06064
CHN_Qihe_N:Qihe2_d


175
1.06067
AUT_LBK_N:I5069


176
1.06072
ITA_Grotta_Continenza_N_o:RMPR6


177
1.06090
TUR_Barcin_N:I0709


178
1.06104
ROU_N:I2533


179
1.06114
DEU_LBK_HBS:I0048


180
1.06135
HRV_Cardial_N:I3948


181
1.06148
TUR_Barcin_N:I1580


182
1.06161
RUS_Sidelkino_HG:Sidelkino

</tbody>
<style type="text/css">body,div,table,thead,tbody,tfoot,tr,th,td,p { font-family:"Liberation Sans"; font-size:x-small }a.comment-indicator:hover + comment { background:#ffd; position:absolute; display:block; border:1px solid black; padding:0.5em; }a.comment-indicator { background:red; display:inline-block; border:1px solid black; width:0.5em; height:0.5em; }comment { display:none; }</style>



Closer to Lezgins than to Armenians? Lol.

You're right loving it. It gets even better with G25 Ancients. Thanks for helping me prove how screwed up G25 is. If distances are so messed up ithen the modeling percentages using Ancients have to be useless.

1. Pygmy Africans closer to ANE Siberians than Basal Eurasian ENF . Nice!
2- Pygmy Africans closer to WHG El Miron than Basal Eurasian ENF. Wow!

Hopefully the ones with common sense seeing all these major flaws will shelf G25 for good and start learning Admixtools and IBS to get a more accurate picture of the world populations.I just may share some of this with Dilawer. He may get a kick out of it or even better I hope he writes something about it on his website so that people who don't know better are warned.


What's so shocking or funny about some Kurds being a tad closer to Lezgin than Armenians. After all they live in the same area. Would you be just as shocked if some Poles are a little closer to Germans than Lithuanians ?

[Babak]

If the G25 screws up the distances above so badly the 15% MUST also be wrong. It’s common sense !! You can’t wiggle your way around it so don’t try to fucking throw mud on my eyes. I haven’t lost all my common sense like you apparently have to trust a tool that can’t even get distances right.

Do you know what IBS gets The results of Africans distances correctly unlike the piece of shit G25 because it’s simply counts the matching SNPs !!

I can’t even imagine anyone defending insane results like above unless they are financially invested into the G 25 tool !

And who the fuck is DMXX some DJ ? Who cares about what some DJ thinks.

Don’t even bother replying to me unless you have some real scientific publications to post

The reason IBS can get distances to Africans right is it simply counts matching SNPs and is not vulnerable to the myriad of issues of PCAs which G25 is based on

IBS even gets the details of the distances right ! such as Eurasians being a little closer to Mbuti than Khomani San which if anyone here has followed the latest scientific papers it has been shown that even Mbuti got a little Middle Eastern admixture from the back-migration from the Middle East to Africa during the Ice Age


Matching SNPs with Iraqi Kurds

POPULATION IBD_AVERAGED IBS-AVG IBS_AVG_NORMALIZED
Kabardin 0.026515 0.7386 100
Armenian 0.033 0.73831 99.53
Lezgin 0.01825 0.738295 99.51
Abkhasian 0.0193 0.73811 99.21
Azeri_Dag 0.01478 0.73785 98.78
Gagauz 0.015765 0.73775 98.62
Georgian 0 0.73761 98.39
Turkish_Kayseri 0.0141 0.737535 98.27
Adygei 0 0.737485 98.19
Balkar 0.016715 0.737395 98.05
Kumyk 0.009585 0.737395 98.05
Ossetian 0 0.736915 97.27
Bulgarian 0 0.736515 96.62
Russians-Kursk 0.0103 0.73642 96.47
Spanish 0 0.736185 96.08
Tatars_Mishar 0 0.73587 95.57
German 0.00215 0.7356 95.14
French 0 0.73556 95.07
Russians-Tver 0 0.735535 95.03
Russians-Oryol 0 0.73546 94.91
Hungarian 0 0.73543 94.86
Sardinian 0 0.735385 94.79
Pashtun_Pak 0 0.73516 94.42
Basque 0 0.7351 94.33
Russians-Smolensk 0 0.73498 94.13
Tajik-Rushan 0.00095 0.734945 94.07
Russians-Vologda 0 0.73475 93.76
Tatars 0 0.734565 93.46
Tajik-Yagnobi 0 0.73426 92.96
Russians-Kostroma 0 0.73414 92.77
English 0 0.73404 92.61
Tajik-Shugnan 0.00092 0.73404 92.61
Estonian 0 0.73403 92.59
Finnish 0 0.733785 92.19
Tajik-Ishkashim 0.00269 0.733445 91.64
Russians 0 0.733415 91.59
BedouinB 0 0.733145 91.16
Tajik 0 0.733125 91.12
Komi 0 0.73304 90.99
Karelia 0 0.7329 90.76
Tatars_Kryashen 0 0.73253 90.16
Brahui 0 0.73178 88.94
Chuvash 0 0.73175 88.89
Kalash 0 0.731725 88.85
Udmurt 0 0.73147 88.44
Turkmen_Uzb 0 0.73144 88.39
Jordanian 0 0.731275 88.12
Balochi 0 0.73118 87.97
Sindhi 0 0.731155 87.93
Burusho 0 0.730805 87.36
Bashkir 0 0.729735 85.63
Punjabi 0 0.729275 84.88
Saami 0 0.728495 83.62
Uyghur 0 0.728365 83.4
Karakalpak 0 0.727035 81.25
Mansi 0 0.725105 78.12
Mozabite 0 0.72484 77.69
Saharawi 0 0.72461 77.32
Relli 0 0.72455 77.22
Kyrgyz 0 0.723695 75.83
Kirghiz 0 0.723625 75.72
Kalmyk 0 0.719635 69.25
Chukchi 0 0.71962 69.23
Nenets 0 0.719405 68.88
Buryat 0 0.718745 67.81
Mongol 0 0.718075 66.72
Burmese 0 0.715185 62.03
Yakut 0 0.71505 61.82
Mixtec 0 0.71443 60.81
Even 0 0.712985 58.47
Koryak 0 0.71184 56.61
Han 0 0.71172 56.42
Nganasan 0 0.710015 53.65
Dai 0 0.70994 53.53
Mayan 0 0.70719 49.07
Ami 0 0.707 48.76
Masai 0 0.702175 40.94
Karitiana 0 0.700875 38.83
Papuan 0 0.700475 38.18
Surui 0 0.700005 37.42
Yoruba 0 0.687495 17.14
Mbuti 0 0.679915 4.85
Khomani 0 0.676925 0


Matching SNPs with Yagnobi Tajiks

POPULATION IBD_AVERAGED IBS-AVG IBS_AVG_NORMALIZED
Tajik-Yagnobi 0.029945 0.743285 100
KURDS-IRAQ 0 0.73426 87.29
Kabardin 0 0.733095 85.65
Azeri_Dag 0 0.73253 84.85
Kumyk 0 0.7325 84.81
Adygei 0 0.73247 84.77
Gagauz 0 0.732455 84.75
Tajik-Rushan 0 0.732445 84.73
Abkhasian 0 0.732415 84.69
Russians-Kursk 0 0.732375 84.63
Lezgin 0 0.73232 84.56
German 0 0.732265 84.48
Balkar 0 0.732235 84.44
Russians-Tver 0 0.732235 84.44
Georgian 0 0.731985 84.08
Pashtun_Pak 0 0.731935 84.01
Armenian 0 0.731895 83.96
Ossetian 0 0.73188 83.94
Russians-Vologda 0 0.73187 83.92
Russians-Oryol 0 0.731825 83.86
Russians-Smolensk 0 0.73175 83.75
Russians-Kostroma 0 0.73148 83.37
Russians 0 0.73147 83.36
Estonian 0 0.731425 83.3
Tatars 0 0.731425 83.3
Tatars_Kryashen 0 0.73139 83.25
Bulgarian 0 0.73138 83.23
English 0 0.7313 83.12
Tajik-Shugnan 0 0.731255 83.06
Finnish 0 0.731145 82.9
Tajik-Ishkashim 0 0.731145 82.9
Spanish 0 0.730885 82.54
Tatars_Mishar 0 0.73089 82.54
Hungarian 0 0.730755 82.35
Komi 0 0.7307 82.27
Karelia 0 0.730585 82.11
Chuvash 0 0.73057 82.09
Turkish_Kayseri 0 0.73055 82.06
Tajik 0 0.7304 81.85
Udmurt 0 0.729965 81.24
Basque 0 0.72996 81.23
French 0 0.72965 80.8
Burusho 0 0.72866 79.4
Kalash 0 0.728575 79.28
Sindhi 0 0.7283 78.89
Turkmen_Uzb 0 0.728265 78.85
Bashkir 0 0.727955 78.41
Brahui 0 0.727925 78.37
Sardinian 0 0.727755 78.13
Punjabi 0 0.726765 76.73
Balochi 0 0.726485 76.34
Uyghur 0 0.72617 75.89
Saami 0 0.726125 75.83
Karakalpak 0 0.72526 74.61
BedouinB 0 0.72511 74.4
Jordanian 0 0.72427 73.22
Mansi 0 0.72407 72.94
Kirghiz 0 0.722585 70.85
Relli 0 0.72216 70.25
Kyrgyz 0 0.721775 69.7
Chukchi 0 0.72015 67.42
Nenets 0 0.719505 66.51
Kalmyk 0 0.71918 66.05
Saharawi 0 0.718125 64.56
Buryat 0 0.718 64.39
Mozabite 0 0.717395 63.54
Mongol 0 0.71686 62.78
Yakut 0 0.715135 60.35
Mixtec 0 0.714155 58.97
Burmese 0 0.71407 58.85
Even 0 0.712805 57.07
Koryak 0 0.71241 56.51
Han 0 0.71157 55.33
Dai 0 0.71042 53.71
Nganasan 0 0.709665 52.65
Mayan 0 0.70828 50.7
Ami 0 0.70782 50.05
Karitiana 0 0.702335 42.32
Surui 0 0.700375 39.56
Papuan 0 0.698115 36.38
Masai 0 0.69614 33.6
Yoruba 0 0.680625 11.75
Mbuti 0 0.674305 2.85
Khomani 0 0.672285 0

DMXX is a population geneticist on anthrogenica. Ive already asked him multiple times what the best calculator was to detect steppe for west iranics and he said G25 is the best calc to use for the time being.

But if were going by IBS, then this means there was a population displacement or some heavy mixing in the Iranian plateau. Is this what youre trying to say?

[Zoro]

DMXX is a population geneticist on anthrogenica. Ive already asked him multiple times what the best calculator was to detect steppe for west iranics and he said G25 is the best calc to use for the time being.

But if were going by IBS, then this means there was a population displacement or some heavy mixing in the Iranian plateau. Is this what youre trying to say?

I just googled DMXX no genecitists came up. Unless you give me a real name so I can verify he’s written technical articles on a website or paper I’ll have to assume he’s just an amateur.

Wrt to IBS vs G25 let’s keep it as simple and logical as possible:

1. IBS simply counts matching SNPs between you and a target population. So it’s clean and simple. Not much to mess up.
2- G25 on the other hand id PCA based coordinates and there’s plenty of papers that have detailed the problems inherent in PCA coordinates and have warned not to over interpret them. Yourself you just saw how the G25 distances are screwed up between Pygmy Africans and various Eurasians whether moden or ancient.

Using simple logic we can’t dismiss IBS results because of what I just described in 1
Using simple logic we can say that G25 modeling will suffer because of what I described in 2

As far as population replacements if IBS indicates it we logically can’t dismiss it.

There have been various population displacements on the Iranian plateu.

Obviously there have been more population displacements since 7000 years ago versus since the iron age or 3000 years ago.

7000 years ago we had Elamites who probably spoke some sort of Dravidian languages or similar. Whereas 2500 to 3000 years ago indo-europeanization was well underway with the Medes.

The qpAdm modeling of Kurds at www.EurasianDNA.com beautifully illustrates these historical events.

https://i.imgur.com/cv50PGp.jpg

If you look at the two pie charts on the right side of the figure that I just posted those QPAdm results show how much additional Indo-Iranian admixture modern Kurds (some Iranians should be similar) have since the Medes approximately 3000 years ago. Here we see only 17-22% additional Sarmatian/Scythian type admixture since 3000 years ago. I suppose not a big population replacement

However if we go back 7000 years ago (2 pie charts on the left) we see a total of 42-50% additional Indo-Iranian admixture from Iran-Chl to modern Kurds (also some Iranians). Arguably some will not count all of it as Steppe because some is Turkmenistan IA type and some Sarmatian type

To summarize over the past 3000 years qpAdm models Show only around 20% additional Indo-Iranian
However over the past 7000 years qpAdm models show additional 42-50% cumulative indi-iranian . As far as how much of it is actual steppe is open to interpretation

[Kyp]

I just googled DMXX no genecitists came up. Unless you give me a real name so I can verify he’s written technical articles on a website or paper I’ll have to assume he’s just an amateur.

Wrt to IBS vs G25 let’s keep it as simple and logical as possible:

1. IBS simply counts matching SNPs between you and a target population. So it’s clean and simple. Not much to mess up.
2- G25 on the other hand id PCA based coordinates and there’s plenty of papers that have detailed the problems inherent in PCA coordinates and have warned not to over interpret them. Yourself you just saw how the G25 distances are screwed up between Pygmy Africans and various Eurasians whether moden or ancient.

Using simple logic we can’t dismiss IBS results because of what I just described in 1
Using simple logic we can say that G25 modeling will suffer because of what I described in 2

As far as population replacements if IBS indicates it we logically can’t dismiss it.

There have been various population displacements on the Iranian plateu.

Obviously there have been more population displacements since 7000 years ago versus since the iron age or 3000 years ago.

7000 years ago we had Elamites who probably spoke some sort of Dravidian languages or similar. Whereas 2500 to 3000 years ago indo-europeanization was well underway with the Medes.

The qpAdm modeling of Kurds at www.EurasianDNA.com beautifully illustrates these historical events.

https://i.imgur.com/cv50PGp.jpg

If you look at the two pie charts on the right side of the figure that I just posted those QPAdm results show how much additional Indo-Iranian admixture modern Kurds (some Iranians should be similar) have since the Medes approximately 3000 years ago. Here we see only 17-22% additional Sarmatian/Scythian type admixture since 3000 years ago. I suppose not a big population replacement

However if we go back 7000 years ago (2 pie charts on the left) we see a total of 42-50% additional Indo-Iranian admixture from Iran-Chl to modern Kurds (also some Iranians). Arguably some will not count all of it as Steppe because some is Turkmenistan IA type and some Sarmatian type

To summarize over the past 3000 years qpAdm models Show only around 20% additional Indo-Iranian
However over the past 7000 years qpAdm models show additional 42-50% cumulative indi-iranian . As far as how much of it is actual steppe is open to interpretation

thats obviously only if you assume Hassanlu_IA is a Mede, but there is no evidence for it.

[Leto]

Sarmatians are nowhere near purely Steppe. Why not use Andronovo of which there are plenty of high-quality samples available, if you accept they were the proto-Indo-Iranian culture. Instead you continue to use later, significantly mixed populations.

thats obviously only if you assume Hassanlu_IA is a Mede, but there is no evidence for it.
Have you seen his Gedmatch results?

[Zoro]

Sarmatians are nowhere near purely Steppe. Why not use Andronovo of which there are plenty of high-quality samples available, if you accept they were the proto-Indo-Iranian culture. Instead you continue to use later, significantly mixed populations.

Have you seen his Gedmatch results?

Like any scientist he tried modelling Kurds just with Turkmenistan IA only without any Sarmatian or Scythian but was not able to get passing qpAdm value (Check the caption for figure 2 above). All this means is that Kurds or their ancestors were not able to shield themselves from the waves of nomads or conqueror Scythians/Sarmatians/Turkics that inundated the Iranian Plateau over a 2500 year time span.That's why the Caucasus looks the way it is today. That's not how it looked 4000 years ago.

I did notice in a previous article at https://eurasiandna.com/impact-of-the-iron-age-saka-and-scythians-on-south-west-asian-demography/ he tried modeling Kurmanji and Feyli Kurds just using Sintashta-MLBA and Iran-Chl but was not able to get any passing p-values on qpAdm. (Table 4). As soon as he introduced Huns, Sakas, or Turkics to the mix he got passing p-values. So he did try using all sorts of scenarios.

[Mejgusu]

Thread: "Do Arabians have very minor Steppe ancestry?"
We: "Do Kurds have very huge Central Asian ancestry?"

[Ajeje Brazorf]

You're right loving it. It gets even better with G25 Ancients. Thanks for helping me prove how screwed up G25 is. If distances are so messed up ithen the modeling percentages using Ancients have to be useless.

1. Pygmy Africans closer to ANE Siberians than Basal Eurasian ENF . Nice!
2- Pygmy Africans closer to WHG El Miron than Basal Eurasian ENF. Wow!

Hopefully the ones with common sense seeing all these major flaws will shelf G25 for good and start learning Admixtools and IBS to get a more accurate picture of the world populations.I just may share some of this with Dilawer. He may get a kick out of it or even better I hope he writes something about it on his website so that people who don't know better are warned.

The sample in the source is not "Pygmy African", but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C7%83Kung_people
1. ANE is AfontovaGora3, not the samples you highlighted
2. El Miron is not fully WHG.


What's so shocking or funny about some Kurds being a tad closer to Lezgin than Armenians. After all they live in the same area. Would you be just as shocked if some Poles are a little closer to Germans than Lithuanians ?

It's neither shocking nor funny, the tool you use has no less flaws than Global25. At least Global25 gets the closest populations right, the chart you posted does not. Not a tad, Kurds are MUCH closer to Armenians than they are to Lezgins, and the same goes for the Poles who are much closer to Lithuanians than they are to Germans.

[Zoro]

ANE is AfontovaGora3, not the samples you highlighted

Next time learn a little before you try to play on my level .Do you really think I just blabber anything like alot of kids here

Ancient North Eurasians (ANE) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_North_Eurasian


In archaeogenetics, the term Ancient North Eurasian (ANE) is the name given to an ancestral West-Eurasian component that represents descent from the people similar to the Yana-RHS sample in northern Siberia as well as the Mal'ta–Buret' culture and populations closely related to them


El Miron is not fully WHG

Even if it isn't fully WHG or Villabruna it's closer to them than basal eurasian rich populations such as ENF


The sample in the source is not "Pygmy African",

Ju Hoan speakers are San Bushmen https://www.peoplesoftheworld.org/hosted/juhoansi/
https://www.south-africa-tours-and-travel.com/san-people.html


The San are much shorter than members of the Black people. The average height of an adult is approximately 1,5 m and their complexion is yellowish.

1.5m or 5ft tall is short in my book. The bigger point is they are the most diverged lineage from Eurasians meaning largest distances with Basal Eurasian poor people such as Ancient and modern Siberians.


the tool you use has no less flaws than Global25

What flaws ??? IBS just counts how many SNPs you match with a target !


At least Global25 gets the closest populations right,

WTF you just helped me prove that the G25 distances are screwed up with the distances you posted, so how can the distances to Kurds be correct !!!! Not to mention all the scientific papers on the problems of PCA coordinates and not to over interpret PCAs


So if IBS counted more matching SNPs between Muslim Lezgin and Muslim Kurds vs Christian Armenians and Muslim Kurds are you saying the computer program doesn't know how to count ??

[Borealis]

Zoro, can I ask why ALL of your sources and information literally come from one single person(Kurd/Dilawer Khan, who you claim you are not the same person as)? If your qpadm and f-stats is to be believed, why not post results from actual scientific sources? Isn't it irresponsible to keep referring to the exact same individual, his websites, and his calculator over and over again? There have got to be multiple logical fallacies at play when someone puts all their faith in a single individual. Trust fallacy, authority bias, appeal to authority come to mind and there's probably more I can't think of.

That's assuming you are not the same person as him which seems dubious given that everything you say matches him verbatim including your family's ethnic make up(some kind of mix of Iraqi Kurd+Baloch+Pashtun?).

[Zoro]

Zoro, can I ask why ALL of your sources and information literally come from one single person(Kurd/Dilawer Khan, who you claim you are not the same person as)? I).

That's not true at all. I have posted a dozen different papers that are consistent with what I say. You just weren't looking. Not my fault.

First, about the only thing I have posted from Dilawer's website are qpAdm results which are not available from other sources. The IBS runs I did and there's not much that can be argued against them because they simply count how many SNPs you match with your target.

If I take the time to repost the dozen or so papers that are consistent with my IBS runs do you promise to read them ?

I have already mentioned that I'm distantly related to him,

[Borealis]

I've just run all the Egyptian samples individually as well as one Coptic sample in a model where I split Levant PPNB into Natufian and ANF. What I found:

Besides one outlier, Egyptians all score somewhere between 8-17% Dinka in this model. The average was about 12%. This is actually not that much higher than for the Coptic sample which came out at 5.6% but it is notably higher than the Late period Egyptian mummy. Side by side comparisons:

Target: EGY_Late_Period
Distance: 4.6156% / 0.04615636
51.4 Levant_Natufian
33.2 TUR_Barcin_N
14.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.0 Dinka

Target: Egyptian_Copt
Distance: 3.9759% / 0.03975915
48.6 Levant_Natufian
29.8 TUR_Barcin_N
16.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.6 Dinka

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 3.4808% / 0.03480761
37.0 Levant_Natufian
32.6 TUR_Barcin_N
18.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.8 Dinka

Moving on to Arabians now-it is clear they are an extremely Natufian rich population moreso than even the ancient Egyptian. And hence, they pack a lot of indirect ANA.

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 5.9813% / 0.05981282
70.4 Levant_Natufian
17.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
12.2 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Saudi
Distance: 6.4616% / 0.06461555
69.0 Levant_Natufian
18.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
12.6 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 5.9852% / 0.05985192
73.0 Levant_Natufian
15.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.6 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 5.6212% / 0.05621217
65.2 Levant_Natufian
18.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
16.6 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 6.1513% / 0.06151320
63.6 Levant_Natufian
19.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
17.2 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 4.9810% / 0.04980973
63.8 Levant_Natufian
19.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
16.4 TUR_Barcin_N
0.6 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 4.6071% / 0.04607077
58.0 Levant_Natufian
23.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
19.0 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 6.0262% / 0.06026173
66.6 Levant_Natufian
17.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
15.8 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 4.9363% / 0.04936328
66.2 Levant_Natufian
20.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.8 TUR_Barcin_N

This is probably much of what is being picked up as NE African in gedmatch. The ANA in Iberomarusians and Natufians is super drifted from actual SSA pops and may be a partial reason why Arabians are not *as* close to Sub-Saharan Africans as one might expect, and definitely not as close as Egyptians and North africans are because the latter have substantial amounts of actual SSA ancestry. It could also explain why psuedo SSA features are widespread among Arabians despite a seeming paucity of proper African slave trade ancestry.

[Zanzibar]

I've just run all the Egyptian samples individually as well as one Coptic sample in a model where I split Levant PPNB into Natufian and ANF. What I found:

Besides one outlier, Egyptians all score somewhere between 8-17% Dinka in this model. The average was about 12%. This is actually not that much higher than for the Coptic sample which came out at 5.6% but it is notably higher than the Late period Egyptian mummy. Side by side comparisons:

Target: EGY_Late_Period
Distance: 4.6156% / 0.04615636
51.4 Levant_Natufian
33.2 TUR_Barcin_N
14.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.0 Dinka

Target: Egyptian_Copt
Distance: 3.9759% / 0.03975915
48.6 Levant_Natufian
29.8 TUR_Barcin_N
16.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.6 Dinka

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 3.4808% / 0.03480761
37.0 Levant_Natufian
32.6 TUR_Barcin_N
18.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.8 Dinka

Moving on to Arabians now-it is clear they are an extremely Natufian rich population moreso than even the ancient Egyptian. And hence, they pack a lot of indirect ANA.

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 5.9813% / 0.05981282
70.4 Levant_Natufian
17.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
12.2 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Saudi
Distance: 6.4616% / 0.06461555
69.0 Levant_Natufian
18.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
12.6 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 5.9852% / 0.05985192
73.0 Levant_Natufian
15.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.6 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 5.6212% / 0.05621217
65.2 Levant_Natufian
18.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
16.6 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 6.1513% / 0.06151320
63.6 Levant_Natufian
19.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
17.2 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 4.9810% / 0.04980973
63.8 Levant_Natufian
19.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
16.4 TUR_Barcin_N
0.6 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 4.6071% / 0.04607077
58.0 Levant_Natufian
23.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
19.0 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 6.0262% / 0.06026173
66.6 Levant_Natufian
17.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
15.8 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 4.9363% / 0.04936328
66.2 Levant_Natufian
20.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.8 TUR_Barcin_N

This is probably much of what is being picked up as NE African in gedmatch. The ANA in Iberomarusians and Natufians is super drifted from actual SSA pops and may be a partial reason why Arabians are not *as* close to Sub-Saharan Africans as one might expect, and definitely not as close as Egyptians and North africans are because the latter have substantial amounts of actual SSA ancestry. It could also explain why psuedo SSA features are widespread among Arabians despite a seeming paucity of proper African slave trade ancestry.

Sorry I forget to post about the Egyptian and Copt G25 results in that "Being Arab" post (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?356837-Being-Arab-being-born-in-Arabian-world-being-a-Muslim&p=7384915&viewfull=1#post7384915). Will do it soon.

Btw, I think if you add Levant_JOR_EBA to the model for Arabians, the amount of SSA will also increase in all of those Saudis, Yemenites and BedouinB.

I see. Well I also learn from Anthrogenica (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?25430-Is-the-African-ancestry-of-Arabians-underestimated-by-G25&p=822209&viewfull=1#post822209)that ANA is much more closer to SSA pops like Dinka, Mota, Yoruba than to any Eurasian population, so in a way it can be consider SSA-like or that those Negroid populations are mostly ANA-like.

I make this same thread on Anthrogenica btw: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?25430-Is-the-African-ancestry-of-Arabians-underestimated-by-G25

[Kyp]

Zoro, can I ask why ALL of your sources and information literally come from one single person(Kurd/Dilawer Khan, who you claim you are not the same person as)? If your qpadm and f-stats is to be believed, why not post results from actual scientific sources? Isn't it irresponsible to keep referring to the exact same individual, his websites, and his calculator over and over again? There have got to be multiple logical fallacies at play when someone puts all their faith in a single individual. Trust fallacy, authority bias, appeal to authority come to mind and there's probably more I can't think of.

That's assuming you are not the same person as him which seems dubious given that everything you say matches him verbatim including your family's ethnic make up(some kind of mix of Iraqi Kurd+Baloch+Pashtun?).


Sarmatians are nowhere near purely Steppe. Why not use Andronovo of which there are plenty of high-quality samples available, if you accept they were the proto-Indo-Iranian culture. Instead you continue to use later, significantly mixed populations.

Have you seen his Gedmatch results?


That's not true at all. I have posted a dozen different papers that are consistent with what I say. You just weren't looking. Not my fault.

First, about the only thing I have posted from Dilawer's website are qpAdm results which are not available from other sources. The IBS runs I did and there's not much that can be argued against them because they simply count how many SNPs you match with your target.

If I take the time to repost the dozen or so papers that are consistent with my IBS runs do you promise to read them ?

I have already mentioned that I'm distantly related to him,

Here is a qpadm run of another person who used multiple Kurdish results (in contrast to Zoro who keeps using only one supposedly Iraqi Kurdish sample).

https://i.imgur.com/73AaoAL.jpg

What his runs shows, that Kurds do indeed have slightly higher Steppe than G25 wants us to believe. But not in the drastic way Zoro keeps on claiming. It's more like a slight percental change. According to his run Kurds are about 24% Andronovo derived. Now that is only for the Kurdish samples that he used, the average still might be slighty lower.

Yaz II:
https://i.imgur.com/WEq1kYv.jpg


Now let's compare to the same run with G25:

Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.2344% / 0.01234408
68.2 Iran_CHL
21.0 Andronovo
9.4 Levant_PPNB
1.4 Slab_Grave (Early Mongolia)


Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.6917% / 0.01691734
50.2 Iran_CHL
33.6 Yaz_II
15.6 Levant_PPNB
0.6 Early_Mongolia


There are slight differences, and I have to point out that this person seems to be in contact with Dilawer who might've provided him with the Kurdish samples, so I would take his output still with a grain of salt.

As long as Dilawer is involved with the samples, i dont fully trust the results. But it might be true that Kurds are slightly more Steppe derived than what G25 shows.

Or at least they only picked the highest Steppe Kurdish samples available. For Turkey Turks he did the same and only picked Turks from Western regions.



https://nezihseven.substack.com/p/genetic-impact-of-iranic-and-turkic

[Leto]

This is probably much of what is being picked up as NE African in gedmatch. The ANA in Iberomarusians and Natufians is super drifted from actual SSA pops and may be a partial reason why Arabians are not *as* close to Sub-Saharan Africans as one might expect, and definitely not as close as Egyptians and North africans are because the latter have substantial amounts of actual SSA ancestry. It could also explain why psuedo SSA features are widespread among Arabians despite a seeming paucity of proper African slave trade ancestry.
I think there are legit Afro-Arabs over there, people with recent black ancestry. Also, South Asian admixture may add to the overall darkness of some Gulf Arabs.

[Babak]

Here is a qpadm run of another person who used multiple Kurdish results (in contrast to Zoro who keeps using only one supposedly Iraqi Kurdish sample).

https://i.imgur.com/73AaoAL.jpg

What his runs shows, that Kurds do indeed have slightly higher Steppe than G25 wants us to believe. But not in the drastic way Zoro keeps on claiming. It's more like a slight percental change. According to his run Kurds are about 24% Andronovo derived. Now that is only for the Kurdish samples that he used, the average still might be slighty lower.

Yaz II:
https://i.imgur.com/WEq1kYv.jpg


Now let's compare to the same run with G25:

Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.2344% / 0.01234408
68.2 Iran_CHL
21.0 Andronovo
9.4 Levant_PPNB
1.4 Slab_Grave (Early Mongolia)


Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.6917% / 0.01691734
50.2 Iran_CHL
33.6 Yaz_II
15.6 Levant_PPNB
0.6 Early_Mongolia


There are slight differences, and I have to point out that this person seems to be in contact with Dilawer who might've provided him with the Kurdish samples, so I would take his output still with a grain of salt.

As long as Dilawer is involved with the samples, i dont fully trust the results. But it might be true that Kurds are slightly more Steppe derived than what G25 shows.

Or at least they only picked the highest Steppe Kurdish samples available. For Turkey Turks he did the same and only picked Turks from Western regions.

Eh, not much difference anyway. Anything thats between 15-20% steppe is still a lot.

[Leto]

What his runs shows, that Kurds do indeed have slightly higher Steppe than G25 wants us to believe. But not in the drastic way Zoro keeps on claiming. It's more like a slight percental change. According to his run Kurds are about 24% Andronovo derived. Now that is only for the Kurdish samples that he used, the average still might be slighty lower.

Why then are Kurds very rarely above 10% North_European on Gedmatch? An Andronovo average would be around 50%, sometimes even higher.

[Leto]

Eh, not much difference anyway. Anything thats between 15-20% steppe is still a lot.
With my model they are not even close to 20%. For example some Pashtun tribes are around 30 percent with the same model.

Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.2702% / 0.01270206
38.8 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
24.6 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
21.0 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
14.2 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
0.8 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
0.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.2 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave

I don't know where the average comes from, it's from the original G25 spreadsheet.

If Kurds are 30% Steppe as Zoro claims, then Afghans and Tajiks should be practically Northern European. But maybe he doesn't even believe those groups have higher Steppe than Kurds and Persians.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Next time learn a little before you try to play on my level .Do you really think I just blabber anything like alot of kids here

https://hostr.co/file/yYzMOChJfQZ9/watch-out-we-got-a-badass-over-here-meme.png


Ancient North Eurasians (ANE) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_North_Eurasian

Yana and Mal'ta are two extremely different things on an autosomal level. Yana is ANE in the same way that GoyetQ116-1 is WHG. MA1, although comes very close, is not pure ANE either. The best candidate for ANE is AfontovaGora3, or at most Tyumen_HG and Tarim_EMBA1.


What flaws ??? IBS just counts how many SNPs you match with a target !

WTF you just helped me prove that the G25 distances are screwed up with the distances you posted, so how can the distances to Kurds be correct !!!! Not to mention all the scientific papers on the problems of PCA coordinates and not to over interpret PCAs

So if IBS counted more matching SNPs between Muslim Lezgin and Muslim Kurds vs Christian Armenians and Muslim Kurds are you saying the computer program doesn't know how to count ??

I'm not saying it can't count, just that even a 2013 GEDmatch calculator would tell you that Kurds have more in common with Armenians than with Lezgins. That's all.

https://i.imgur.com/o7HY1Rc.png

Global25 distance for the Kurdish average, Kurds are almost 2 times more related to Armenians than Lezgin (proxied by Chechen here)


Distance to: Kurdish
0.01591360 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.01628422 Ezid
0.01857581 Iranian_Lor
0.02373310 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.02435940 Bukharian_Jew
0.02801516 Iranian_Fars
0.02802702 Turkish_East
0.03013346 Udi
0.03271482 Azerbaijani
0.03395416 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.03723580 Azerbaijani_Turkey
0.03813843 Assyrian
0.03923286 Georgian_Jew
0.03955614 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.03964652 Mountain_Jew
0.03985504 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.04160754 Georgian_Meskheti
0.04428048 Armenian
0.04482742 Iranian_Jew
0.04553614 Turkish_Adana
0.04594017 Turkish_Kayseri
0.04630891 Armenian_Erzurum
0.04760206 Mountain_Jew_o
0.04873182 Georgian_Kakh
0.05199588 Georgian_Kart
0.05376121 Armenian_Hemsheni
0.05451862 Kurdish_Jew
0.05505227 Ahiska
0.05526804 Turkish_Central
0.05657971 Turkish_Trabzon
0.05724045 Georgian_Khevs
0.05862152 Greek_Trabzon
0.05899825 Georgian_Tush
0.06095974 Georgian_Laz
0.06144463 Iraqi_Jew
0.06156988 Iraqi
0.06314075 Syrian
0.06441403 Kumyk
0.06542715 Greek_Cappadocia
0.06655189 Georgian_Ajar
0.06838591 Greek_Central_Anatolia
0.06906921 Lebanese_Muslim
0.06933162 Lebanese_Druze
0.06998141 Druze
0.07037778 Ingushian
0.07099823 Abkhasian
0.07184617 Adygei
0.07226478 Turkish_North
0.07254738 Georgian_Imer
0.07315666 Chechen
0.07394896 Ossetian
0.07441554 Karachay
0.07490000 Kabardin
0.07513870 Circassian
0.07622589 Syrian_Jew
0.07646922 Turkish_South
0.07665704 North_Ossetian
0.07677260 Parsi_Pakistan
0.07707138 Cherkes
0.07753786 Karaite_Egypt
0.07791728 Georgian_Megr
0.07796218 Balkar
0.07833074 Tabasaran
0.07957288 Parsi_India
0.07995535 Abazin
0.07999175 Turkish_Southwest

[Babak]

With my model they are not even close to 20%. For example some Pashtun tribes are around 30 percent with the same model.

Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.2702% / 0.01270206
38.8 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
24.6 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
21.0 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
14.2 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
0.8 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
0.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.2 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave

I don't know where the average comes from, it's from the original G25 spreadsheet.

If Kurds are 30% Steppe as Zoro claims, then Afghans and Tajiks should be practically Northern European. But maybe he doesn't even believe those groups have higher Steppe than Kurds and Persians.


Yea I agree. Same with pamiris and yaghnobis. Andronovo seems to be a better fit and has been for awhile now.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

If Kurds are 30% Steppe as Zoro claims, then Afghans and Tajiks should be practically Northern European. But maybe he doesn't even believe those groups have higher Steppe than Kurds and Persians.

Of course it's that high, because he considers ANE to be this


Target: RUS_Yana_UP
Distance: 2.2470% / 0.02246975
36.0 Jarawa
19.8 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
14.6 WHG
6.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2_I8728
5.8 Levant_PPNB
5.2 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP
3.8 Nganassan
3.6 ETH_4500BP
2.2 TUR_Barcin_N
1.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.4 MAR_Taforalt

Rather than this


Target: RUS_AfontovaGora3
Distance: 16.4431% / 0.16443060
75.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
24.6 BRA_LapaDoSanto_9600BP

[Babak]

With my model they are not even close to 20%. For example some Pashtun tribes are around 30 percent with the same model.

Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.2702% / 0.01270206
38.8 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
24.6 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
21.0 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
14.2 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
0.8 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
0.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.2 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave

I don't know where the average comes from, it's from the original G25 spreadsheet.

If Kurds are 30% Steppe as Zoro claims, then Afghans and Tajiks should be practically Northern European. But maybe he doesn't even believe those groups have higher Steppe than Kurds and Persians.

Here are these too. Its from 2019 but still accurate.

Kurdish:Average",
"fit": 1.049,
"IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C": 37.5,
"Levant_Canaanite_MBA": 31.67,
"Anatolia_Barcin_C": 17.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 12.5,
"Mongola": 0.83,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 0

"Kurdish:kurd1101",
"fit": 1.3171,
"IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C": 37.5,
"Levant_Canaanite_MBA": 24.17,
"Anatolia_Barcin_C": 23.33,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 13.33,
"Mongola": 1.67,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 0,

"Kurdish:kurd1156",
"fit": 1.6725,
"IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C": 36.67,
"Levant_Canaanite_MBA": 36.67,
"Anatolia_Barcin_C": 20.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 4.17,
"Mongola": 1.67,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 0

"Kurdish:kurd1159",
"fit": 1.5183,
"IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C": 39.17,
"Levant_Canaanite_MBA": 28.33,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 15.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_C": 15,
"Mongola": 1.67,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 0

[Kyp]

Why then are Kurds very rarely above 10% North_European on Gedmatch? An Andronovo average would be around 50%, sometimes even higher.

Why do Georgians score same amount of NorthEuro but are less Steppe?

Anyway I dont believe G25 is incorrect, there will be only be minor changes with qpadm IMO

[Kaspias]

Why do Georgians score same amount of NorthEuro but are less Steppe?

Anyway I dont believe G25 is incorrect, there will be only be minor changes with qpadm IMO

Tried more than 100 runs in qpAdm, the maximum change I have seen was 7%. It's usually around 3%.

[Human10101]

Here is a qpadm run of another person who used multiple Kurdish results (in contrast to Zoro who keeps using only one supposedly Iraqi Kurdish sample).

https://i.imgur.com/73AaoAL.jpg

What his runs shows, that Kurds do indeed have slightly higher Steppe than G25 wants us to believe. But not in the drastic way Zoro keeps on claiming. It's more like a slight percental change. According to his run Kurds are about 24% Andronovo derived. Now that is only for the Kurdish samples that he used, the average still might be slighty lower.

Yaz II:
https://i.imgur.com/WEq1kYv.jpg


Now let's compare to the same run with G25:

Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.2344% / 0.01234408
68.2 Iran_CHL
21.0 Andronovo
9.4 Levant_PPNB
1.4 Slab_Grave (Early Mongolia)


Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.6917% / 0.01691734
50.2 Iran_CHL
33.6 Yaz_II
15.6 Levant_PPNB
0.6 Early_Mongolia


There are slight differences, and I have to point out that this person seems to be in contact with Dilawer who might've provided him with the Kurdish samples, so I would take his output still with a grain of salt.

As long as Dilawer is involved with the samples, i dont fully trust the results. But it might be true that Kurds are slightly more Steppe derived than what G25 shows.

Or at least they only picked the highest Steppe Kurdish samples available. For Turkey Turks he did the same and only picked Turks from Western regions.


The author of that article agrees with dilawer though, in his conclusion section he literally says “It should be noted that our inferences for Kurds are consistent with a previous study by Dilawer Khan”


that previous study is the one which Zoro is referring to...


The qpAdm modeling of Kurds at www.EurasianDNA.com beautifully illustrates these historical events.

[Babak]

The author of that article agrees with dilawer though, in his conclusion section he literally says “It should be noted that our inferences for Kurds are consistent with a previous study by Dilawer Khan”


Oh shit, i didnt even see that lol

[Zoro]

Here is a qpadm run of another person who used multiple Kurdish results (in contrast to Zoro who keeps using only one supposedly Iraqi Kurdish sample).

https://i.imgur.com/73AaoAL.jpg

What his runs shows, that Kurds do indeed have slightly higher Steppe than G25 wants us to believe. But not in the drastic way Zoro keeps on claiming. It's more like a slight percental change. According to his run Kurds are about 24% Andronovo derived. Now that is only for the Kurdish samples that he used, the average still might be slighty lower.

Yaz II:
https://i.imgur.com/WEq1kYv.jpg


Now let's compare to the same run with G25:

Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.2344% / 0.01234408
68.2 Iran_CHL
21.0 Andronovo
9.4 Levant_PPNB
1.4 Slab_Grave (Early Mongolia)


Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.6917% / 0.01691734
50.2 Iran_CHL
33.6 Yaz_II
15.6 Levant_PPNB
0.6 Early_Mongolia


There are slight differences, and I have to point out that this person seems to be in contact with Dilawer who might've provided him with the Kurdish samples, so I would take his output still with a grain of salt.

As long as Dilawer is involved with the samples, i dont fully trust the results. But it might be true that Kurds are slightly more Steppe derived than what G25 shows.

Or at least they only picked the highest Steppe Kurdish samples available. For Turkey Turks he did the same and only picked Turks from Western regions.

We have a saying: A lier thinks everyone is a lier. A cheat thinks everyone is a cheat.
You always resort to lowly dishonerable personal attacks when something doesn’t fit your agenda.

Since you are the one who provided Mr Seven’s blog at https://nezihseven.substack.com/p/genetic-impact-of-iranic-and-turkic

You must have seen that he wrote:

It should be noted that our inferences for Kurds are consistent with a previous study by Dilawer Khan.8
Special thanks to David Wesolowski of Eurogenes Blog, Dilawer Khan of Eurasian DNA and Vikram Raj of The Archaeogenetics blog for their help with the technical details of qpAdm.

Yet you chose the lowliest and most dishonerable method to cast doubt on his results by implying that he may have gotten his samples from Dilawer when clearly he has credited Dilawer with helping with the technical aspects of qpAdm and not supplying Kurd samples

I googled his name and a bunch of websites and YouTube videos came up. He appears to be a Kurdish Archaeologist in Turkey. As such he would have access to Kurdish samples himself.

You did the same thing with me and also with Dilawer, you resorted to same lowly and dishonerable personal attacks. That’s why i told you to provide proof or stfu.

In science if you don’t agree with something you duplicate the scientific method using the same samples and show you got a different result. You don’t fucking make personal attacks on people’s integrities and say the cheated on the samples you coward.

People like you resort to hitting below the belt or backstabbing when something goes against their agenda and they can’t disprove results the proper way by duplication.

Have some shame and honor !!




https://youtu.be/tCJhfKm-slw%5B


https://youtu.be/iDvPT22iX_0


https://youtu.be/PyXqRllzjy8

[Zoro]

[


Yana and Mal'ta are two extremely different things on an autosomal level.



Who the fuck cares. The world defines MA1 as Ancient North Eurasian and Yana as Ancient North Siberian. G25 has no business showing the most diverged from Eurasian African lineages such as Jo Hoan or Khomani San closer to Siberians whether MA1 or modern Siberian or Turkmen or Pashtun than to Basal Eurasian ENF. If it can't get these distances right it's admixture proportions MUST be WRONG. So stop posting worthless G25 models. No scientist will take those seriously




I'm not saying it can't count, just that even a 2013 GEDmatch calculator would tell you that Kurds have more in common with Armenians than with Lezgins. That's all.

I can't believe what I just read. Man you're beyond help !!
You want me to believe a 2013 Admixture calculator that relies on a 1000 assumptions and has all sorts of disclaimers over a simple raw count of matching SNPs ?? Have you gone mad. The Iraqi Kurds samples have slightly more matching SNPs with muslim Lezgins than with Christian Armenians. End of story. Nothing else matters

[Zoro]

With my model they are not even close to 20%. For example some Pashtun tribes are around 30 percent with the same model.

Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.2702% / 0.01270206
38.8 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
24.6 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
21.0 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
14.2 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
0.8 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
0.4 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.2 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave

I don't know where the average comes from, it's from the original G25 spreadsheet.

If Kurds are 30% Steppe as Zoro claims, then Afghans and Tajiks should be practically Northern European. But maybe he doesn't even believe those groups have higher Steppe than Kurds and Persians.

I can't make up my mind on whether your trolling or serious !

How many times have said that admixture proportions depend on what component the calculator has. W. Asian/N.European/E. Asian for Pashtuns and Kurds will change depending on how you choose those components AND whether you use 23andMe or Whole Genomes when you design your calculator (I don't mean running a calculator with 23andme vs Ancestry vs WGS. I mean actual design)

If you want to lower N. European and E. Asian in Pashtuns and Tajiks, make a calculator using Kurds as a W. Asian component. Since Pashtuns and Tajiks will score alot of W. Asian Kurd, their N. European and E. Asian will come tumbling down.

If you want to increase N. European and E. Asian in Kurds make a calculator using Jordanians as a W. Asian component. Since Kurds will now score less W. Asian Jordanian their N. European and E. Asian will increase


Since calculator percentages will change depending on which components you use, just say fuck it and compare Pashtuns, Tajiks, Kurds to Steppe genomes using one-to-one IBS using whole genomes and see who gets more matching SNPs. BTW, I'm not saying that Kurds have more Steppe ancestry than Tajiks. It's the other way around for most Tajik groups

[Mejgusu]

Why do Georgians score same amount of NorthEuro but are less Steppe?

Really? Maybe their European ancestry isn't steppe related like other Caucasians?

[Zanzibar]

Why do Georgians score same amount of NorthEuro but are less Steppe?

Anyway I dont believe G25 is incorrect, there will be only be minor changes with qpadm IMO

Don't Georgians have very noise level to literally zero Steppe especially the Western ones like Mingrelian, Imereti, Adjara, Laz?

[Babak]

I can't make up my mind on whether your trolling or serious !

How many times have said that admixture proportions depend on what component the calculator has. W. Asian/N.European/E. Asian for Pashtuns and Kurds will change depending on how you choose those components AND whether you use 23andMe or Whole Genomes when you design your calculator (I don't mean running a calculator with 23andme vs Ancestry vs WGS. I mean actual design)

If you want to lower N. European and E. Asian in Pashtuns and Tajiks, make a calculator using Kurds as a W. Asian component. Since Pashtuns and Tajiks will score alot of W. Asian Kurd, their N. European and E. Asian will come tumbling down.

If you want to increase N. European and E. Asian in Kurds make a calculator using Jordanians as a W. Asian component. Since Kurds will now score less W. Asian Jordanian their N. European and E. Asian will increase


Since calculator percentages will change depending on which components you use, just say fuck it and compare Pashtuns, Tajiks, Kurds to Steppe genomes using one-to-one IBS using whole genomes and see who gets more matching SNPs. BTW, I'm not saying that Kurds have more Steppe ancestry than Tajiks. It's the other way around for most Tajik groups

Have you tried it for tajiks?

[Ajeje Brazorf]

The world defines MA1 as Ancient North Eurasian and Yana as Ancient North Siberian.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_North_Eurasian


Genetic analyses show that all ANE samples (Afontova Gora 3, Mal'ta 1 and Yana-RHS)


You want me to believe a 2013 Admixture calculator that relies on a 1000 assumptions and has all sorts of disclaimers over a simple raw count of matching SNPs ??

https://melmagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/image6-1.png

[Kyp]

Don't Georgians have very noise level to literally zero Steppe especially the Western ones like Mingrelian, Imereti, Adjara, Laz?

No not from the results Leto posts. I also thought they would score lower N_Euro but doesnt seem like the case.

Another example would be: Azeris score slightly higher North Euro than Persians on average but are less Steppe-derived.

[Leto]

Another example would be: Azeris score slightly higher North Euro than Persians on average but are less Steppe-derived.
Not by much, it's almost the same.
Needless to say Northern Azerbaijan has even more than this average.

Target: Azerbaijani
Distance: 1.2599% / 0.01259940
31.6 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
29.0 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
18.2 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
14.8 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
3.6 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
2.2 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave
0.6 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA

Target: Iranian_Lor
Distance: 0.8828% / 0.00882814
39.8 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
25.6 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
18.4 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
11.6 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
2.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
1.2 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
1.0 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave
0.2 KEN_Nyarindi_3500BP

Target: Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
Distance: 0.8289% / 0.00828866
37.4 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
34.6 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
16.4 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
5.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
2.6 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
2.4 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
0.8 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.6 KEN_Nyarindi_3500BP

Target: Iranian_Fars
Distance: 1.0065% / 0.01006522
38.2 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
24.6 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
17.0 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
12.6 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
4.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
2.2 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
0.8 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA

[Babak]

Not by much, it's almost the same.
Needless to say Northern Azerbaijan has even more than this average.

Target: Azerbaijani
Distance: 1.2599% / 0.01259940
31.6 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
29.0 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
18.2 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
14.8 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
3.6 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
2.2 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave
0.6 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA

Target: Iranian_Lor
Distance: 0.8828% / 0.00882814
39.8 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
25.6 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
18.4 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
11.6 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
2.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
1.2 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
1.0 MNG_Ulaanzuukh_Slab_Grave
0.2 KEN_Nyarindi_3500BP

Target: Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
Distance: 0.8289% / 0.00828866
37.4 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
34.6 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
16.4 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
5.2 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
2.6 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
2.4 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
0.8 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA
0.6 KEN_Nyarindi_3500BP

Target: Iranian_Fars
Distance: 1.0065% / 0.01006522
38.2 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
24.6 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
17.0 KAZ_Aktogai_MLBA
12.6 TUR_Kaman-Kalehoyuk_MLBA
4.6 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
2.2 CHN_Yellow_River_LN
0.8 RUS_Krasnoyarsk_BA

Got any from tehran?

[Zanzibar]

No not from the results Leto posts. I also thought they would score lower N_Euro but doesnt seem like the case.

Another example would be: Azeris score slightly higher North Euro than Persians on average but are less Steppe-derived.

Was Leto posting the G25 or Gedmatch? Was thinking more of G25 because there Georgians especially the Western ones hardly score any to literally zero Steppe.

If it is the N_Euro that they score in Gedmatch, it looks like in G25, it has become part of CHG.

[Borealis]

Here is a qpadm run of another person who used multiple Kurdish results (in contrast to Zoro who keeps using only one supposedly Iraqi Kurdish sample).

https://i.imgur.com/73AaoAL.jpg

What his runs shows, that Kurds do indeed have slightly higher Steppe than G25 wants us to believe. But not in the drastic way Zoro keeps on claiming. It's more like a slight percental change. According to his run Kurds are about 24% Andronovo derived. Now that is only for the Kurdish samples that he used, the average still might be slighty lower.

Yaz II:
https://i.imgur.com/WEq1kYv.jpg


Now let's compare to the same run with G25:

Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.2344% / 0.01234408
68.2 Iran_CHL
21.0 Andronovo
9.4 Levant_PPNB
1.4 Slab_Grave (Early Mongolia)


Target: Kurdish
Distance: 1.6917% / 0.01691734
50.2 Iran_CHL
33.6 Yaz_II
15.6 Levant_PPNB
0.6 Early_Mongolia


There are slight differences, and I have to point out that this person seems to be in contact with Dilawer who might've provided him with the Kurdish samples, so I would take his output still with a grain of salt.

As long as Dilawer is involved with the samples, i dont fully trust the results. But it might be true that Kurds are slightly more Steppe derived than what G25 shows.

Or at least they only picked the highest Steppe Kurdish samples available. For Turkey Turks he did the same and only picked Turks from Western regions.

Kurds coming out as 24% steppe isn’t too shocking, especially if it’s Turkish Kurd or non representative sample. There was an Azeri/Golestani Iranian(DMXX) who came out as 25% steppe so it can happen.


I wouldn’t be shocked if the Kurdish Iraqi sample is actually Dilawer Khan/Kurd himself. I see a lone “Kurds SE” sample popping up in my own oracles in random gedmatch calculators, and I would venture to guess that’s what it is.

Not to mention, I’ve noticed that mixed people on Anthrotard forums always have some agenda in trying to bring the two components of their ethnic heritage together and prove that they’re not actually that different in order to solve an identity crisis that they have. In the case of Kurd, he has a vested interest in bringing his Baloch/Pashtun side closer to his Kurdish side. Another Greek/Swedish user I met was trying to swarthify Swedes to make them closer to Greeks. Another Tajik/Kashmiri guy tries to bring Punjabis and Afghans together and argue there is almost no difference in phenotype.

Be weary of these types. Very.

[Borealis]

Sorry I forget to post about the Egyptian and Copt G25 results in that "Being Arab" post (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?356837-Being-Arab-being-born-in-Arabian-world-being-a-Muslim&p=7384915&viewfull=1#post7384915). Will do it soon.

Btw, I think if you add Levant_JOR_EBA to the model for Arabians, the amount of SSA will also increase in all of those Saudis, Yemenites and BedouinB.

I see. Well I also learn from Anthrogenica (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?25430-Is-the-African-ancestry-of-Arabians-underestimated-by-G25&p=822209&viewfull=1#post822209)that ANA is much more closer to SSA pops like Dinka, Mota, Yoruba than to any Eurasian population, so in a way it can be consider SSA-like or that those Negroid populations are mostly ANA-like.

I make this same thread on Anthrogenica btw: https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?25430-Is-the-African-ancestry-of-Arabians-underestimated-by-G25

Arabians clearly descend to a large degree from some very drifted source population and need an additional component to bring their fits to a reasonable level and represent all their ancestral streams better, or else some sub-optimal component like Natufian will eat up all their SSA. G25 is definitely deflating their SSA ancestry to some extent. I can accept that Bedouins might have fairly low to nil SSA and the same may apply to a few Yemeni groups that are located in very remote areas because of their lack of involvement in the cosmopolitan slave trade, but the rest? Hard to believe.

Once we get proper samples, we should be able to get a more precise account of their actual SSA percentage. Although, there’s probably scientific papers out there which have already come to a conclusion on this topic. We’d need to do some looking.

[Kyp]

Got any from tehran?

Target: Azerbaijani_Iran_Tehran
Distance: 0.6789% / 0.00678948
38.0 Iran_CHL
26.6 Anatolia_Chalcolithic
17.2 Steppe
7.2 Early_Mongolia
5.0 Helmand_BA
4.0 Semitic
2.0 Caucasus


Target: Persian_Iran_Tehran
Distance: 0.4181% / 0.00418146
54.2 Iran_CHL
16.8 Steppe
14.0 Anatolia_Chalcolithic
4.0 Helmand_BA
4.0 Semitic
3.6 Early_Mongolia
3.4 Caucasus

[Kyp]

Kurds coming out as 24% steppe isn’t too shocking, especially if it’s Turkish Kurd or non representative sample. There was an Azeri/Golestani Iranian(DMXX) who came out as 25% steppe so it can happen.


I wouldn’t be shocked if the Kurdish Iraqi sample is actually Dilawer Khan/Kurd himself. I see a lone “Kurds SE” sample popping up in my own oracles in random gedmatch calculators, and I would venture to guess that’s what it is.

Not to mention, I’ve noticed that mixed people on Anthrotard forums always have some agenda in trying to bring the two components of their ethnic heritage together and prove that they’re not actually that different in order to solve an identity crisis that they have. In the case of Kurd, he has a vested interest in bringing his Baloch/Pashtun side closer to his Kurdish side. Another Greek/Swedish user I met was trying to swarthify Swedes to make them closer to Greeks. Another Tajik/Kashmiri guy tries to bring Punjabis and Afghans together and argue there is almost no difference in phenotype.

Be weary of these types. Very.

Very well said. I agree.

You are right about the Kurds_SE. It's from Dilawers old calculators right?

Here it is:

https://i.imgur.com/3k7dm2f.png


That's clearly not a Kurd judging from its difference to the other Kurdish references in a K6 calculator. It has way too high Ancestral_South_Asian also higher East_Asian and way lower Natufian than the other Kurds. Thats also clearly deceiving the users too.
I also suspect him using that sample and present it as Kurdish_Iraq. Also Zoro used to send an Iraq Kurdish sample scoring like 10% East Asian couple of years ago. However the other components also suggested that it couldnt be a fully Kurdish sample. Another case of deceiving. Although he will probably start a rant over it too now.

[Kyp]

Was Leto posting the G25 or Gedmatch? Was thinking more of G25 because there Georgians especially the Western ones hardly score any to literally zero Steppe.

If it is the N_Euro that they score in Gedmatch, it looks like in G25, it has become part of CHG.

Gedmatch

I know that Georgians don't score high Steppe on G25. I was just trying to say that North_Euro on Gedmatch doesnt 100% correlate with Steppe ancestry. That's a point where Zoro is actually right about something.

But North_Euro can additionally increase from CHG (EHG shifted West Asia) source for example or I think even Anatolia_Neolithic as they were partly WHG.
At the same time Steppe ancestry can hide under components such as Gedrosia, Caucasus etc. too.

[Zanzibar]

Gedmatch

Oh ok, that make sense. The North Euro they score in Gedmatch might not be actually "North Euro" though but rather CHG if they score only noise levels to zero Steppe.

[Zanzibar]

Gedmatch

I know that Georgians don't score high Steppe on G25. I was just trying to say that North_Euro on Gedmatch doesnt 100% correlate with Steppe ancestry. That's a point where Zoro is actually right about something.

But North_Euro can additionally increase from CHG (EHG shifted West Asia) source for example or I think even Anatolia_Neolithic as they were partly WHG.
At the same time Steppe ancestry can hide under components such as Gedrosia, Caucasus etc. too.

That's interesting. You are right though, the North_Euro doesn't correlate 100% with Steppe in G25 and could be CHG, EHG or Anatolian_N as you suggested.

This is make me starting to doubt if Georgians really lack Steppe or not.

[Zanzibar]

Arabians clearly descend to a large degree from some very drifted source population and need an additional component to bring their fits to a reasonable level and represent all their ancestral streams better, or else some sub-optimal component like Natufian will eat up all their SSA. G25 is definitely deflating their SSA ancestry to some extent. I can accept that Bedouins might have fairly low to nil SSA and the same may apply to a few Yemeni groups that are located in very remote areas because of their lack of involvement in the cosmopolitan slave trade, but the rest? Hard to believe.

Once we get proper samples, we should be able to get a more precise account of their actual SSA percentage. Although, there’s probably scientific papers out there which have already come to a conclusion on this topic. We’d need to do some looking.

I wonder should I post in the other thread but I think I will just reply here.

Agreed. G25 really seems to be underestimating their SSA blood. True but even I thought those groups you mentioned who are isolated should score some ancient Dinka/East African-like ancestry even if it is small amounts.

Yes I am also skeptical with almost all the Arabian groups scoring very little to zero negroid. It doesn't make sense to me all considering how the Arabian Peninsula especially Yemen is literally located next to Somalia in the Horn of Africa and have historical cultural, political and trading influence with one another which should also include a lot of gene flow from the Horn as well. Which is why I think their SSA score doesn't make sense. I also believe it has to do with sampling to a degree. It's like the researchers intentionally handpick samples from isolated areas and deliberately ignored the samples from urban coastal areas as they think the former is more authentic Peninsular arabs without outside influence.

Here are the most African-shifted Arabian individuals from G25. They are only 6-7% African which is shocking.

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y018
Distance: 2.7203% / 0.02720326
93.0 Levant_JOR_EBA
5.6 Dinka
1.4 ETH_4500BP

Target: Yemenite_Amran:Y504
Distance: 3.7437% / 0.03743679
93.6 Levant_JOR_EBA
6.4 Dinka

'
Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y025
Distance: 4.0545% / 0.04054513
78.2 Levant_JOR_EBA
15.8 Levant_Natufian
3.2 ETH_4500BP
2.8 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y006
Distance: 3.5380% / 0.03537976
80.2 Levant_JOR_EBA
14.0 Levant_Natufian
3.4 Dinka
2.4 Yoruba

[Zoro]

Thats also clearly deceiving the users too.
I also suspect him using that sample and present it as Kurdish_Iraq.

Shamelessness , dishonor, and dishonesty has no bounds with you continuing to make personal attacks on people's integrity without proof and knowing that the Iraqi Kurd WGS sample has to be an actual Iraqi Kurd sample being that I offered to upload it and knowing that one of the first things you would do is verify it's Iraqi Kurd by running it through Gedmatch calculators.

Actually you and others here have very clearly proved their agendas by continuing to post G25 having seen that it's distances are clearly wrong.

[Kyp]

Shamelessness , dishonor, and dishonesty has no bounds with you continuing to make personal attacks on people's integrity without proof and knowing that the Iraqi Kurd WGS sample has to be an actual Iraqi Kurd sample being that I offered to upload it and knowing that one of the first things you would do is verify it's Iraqi Kurd by running it through Gedmatch calculators.

Actually you and others here have very clearly proved their agendas by continuing to post G25 having seen that it's distances are clearly wrong.

I could run it through Gedmatch but I couldnt run it through qpadm as I dont have the time to learn how to do it. So i couldnt possibly confirm, if the runs on qpadm are correct.

[Zoro]

Kurds coming out as 24% steppe isn’t too shocking, especially if it’s Turkish Kurd or non representative sample. There was an Azeri/Golestani Iranian(DMXX) who came out as 25% steppe so it can happen.


I wouldn’t be shocked if the Kurdish Iraqi sample is actually Dilawer Khan/Kurd himself. I see a lone “Kurds SE” sample popping up in my own oracles in random gedmatch calculators, and I would venture to guess that’s what it is.

Not to mention, I’ve noticed that mixed people on Anthrotard forums always have some agenda in trying to bring the two components of their ethnic heritage together and prove that they’re not actually that different in order to solve an identity crisis that they have. In the case of Kurd, he has a vested interest in bringing his Baloch/Pashtun side closer to his Kurdish side. Another Greek/Swedish user I met was trying to swarthify Swedes to make them closer to Greeks. Another Tajik/Kashmiri guy tries to bring Punjabis and Afghans together and argue there is almost no difference in phenotype.

Be weary of these types. Very.

Congrats you also just made the shameless dishonorable club by attacking someone's integrity without proof. It seems that if anyone who agrees with Dilawer has to be Dilawer just like when the Kurd from Turkey user Demhat was accused of being Dilawer because he agreed with him.

Even if I wasn't distantly related to him I would still side with him over some ignorant trolls who have 0 scruples.

Fortunately WGS formal stats and IBS backs me up with the closeness of Tajiks/Pashtuns/Kurds/Brahui/Baloch and the languages back up the linguistic connections. You don't have to take my word for it. You can see for yourself if you get off of your ass and put some effort into learning to use and understand formal stats and IBS instead of making personal attacks on people.

If a few years back Dilawer used a Kurd sample from Balochistan whether it's him or a relative and labelled it Kurds-SE why is that a problem for you

[Babak]

Congrats you also just made the shameless dishonorable club by attacking someone's integrity without proof. It seems that if anyone who agrees with Dilawer has to be Dilawer just like when the Kurd from Turkey user Demhat was accused of being Dilawer because he agreed with him.

Even if I wasn't distantly related to him I would still side with him over some ignorant trolls who have 0 scruples.

Fortunately WGS formal stats and IBS backs me up with the closeness of Tajiks/Pashtuns/Kurds/Brahui/Baloch and the languages back up the linguistic connections. You don't have to take my word for it. You can see for yourself if you get off of your ass and put some effort into learning to use and understand formal stats and IBS instead of making personal attacks on people.

If a few years back Dilawer used a Kurd sample from Balochistan whether it's him or a relative and labelled it Kurds-SE why is that a problem for you

Why was kurd banned on anthrogenica anyway?

[Zoro]

Why was kurd banned on anthrogenica anyway?

I don't know the full details but what I do know is that some Admin picked one of the worst subject he could to argue with Dilawer namely qpAdm, which is something that Dilawer knows in and out. What ended up happening is the Admin got pissed and started demanding copies of Dilawer's degrees and other personal details. When Dilawer refused to turn those over because he didn't want to submit those to anonymous Admins at some forum they banned him.

[Babak]

I don't know the full details but what I do know is that some Admin picked one of the worst subject he could to argue with Dilawer namely qpAdm, which is something that Dilawer knows in and out. What ended up happening is the Admin got pissed and started demanding copies of Dilawer's degrees and other personal details. When Dilawer refused to turn those over because he didn't want to submit those to anonymous Admins at some forum they banned him.

Oh shit ok. I thought it was something about that

[Babak]

I don't know the full details but what I do know is that some Admin picked one of the worst subject he could to argue with Dilawer namely qpAdm, which is something that Dilawer knows in and out. What ended up happening is the Admin got pissed and started demanding copies of Dilawer's degrees and other personal details. When Dilawer refused to turn those over because he didn't want to submit those to anonymous Admins at some forum they banned him.

Oh shit ok. I thought it was something about that

[Zoro]

Oh shit ok. I thought it was something about that

That’s probably the reason scientists don’t like joining forums. It’s a shame

[Leto]

Not to mention, I’ve noticed that mixed people on Anthrotard forums always have some agenda in trying to bring the two components of their ethnic heritage together and prove that they’re not actually that different in order to solve an identity crisis that they have. In the case of Kurd, he has a vested interest in bringing his Baloch/Pashtun side closer to his Kurdish side. Another Greek/Swedish user I met was trying to swarthify Swedes to make them closer to Greeks. Another Tajik/Kashmiri guy tries to bring Punjabis and Afghans together and argue there is almost no difference in phenotype.

Be weary of these types. Very.
I'm not saying all differences should be downplayed or anything like that but IMO there is nothing wrong with finding and highlighting some commonalities. Many ethnicities have more in common with each other than most people realize. That's why I tend to emphasize Steppe ancestry of all things. I even tried to encourage certain Afghans to start viewing themselves as closer to whites by emphasizing the Steppe and R1a. But of course I also demand they denounce Islam which is probably way too much for them. So they failed to get the honorary Belorussian status and remained in the unholy Sand Nibba domain :cool:

[Borealis]

Congrats you also just made the shameless dishonorable club by attacking someone's integrity without proof. It seems that if anyone who agrees with Dilawer has to be Dilawer just like when the Kurd from Turkey user Demhat was accused of being Dilawer because he agreed with him.

Even if I wasn't distantly related to him I would still side with him over some ignorant trolls who have 0 scruples.

Fortunately WGS formal stats and IBS backs me up with the closeness of Tajiks/Pashtuns/Kurds/Brahui/Baloch and the languages back up the linguistic connections. You don't have to take my word for it. You can see for yourself if you get off of your ass and put some effort into learning to use and understand formal stats and IBS instead of making personal attacks on people.

If a few years back Dilawer used a Kurd sample from Balochistan whether it's him or a relative and labelled it Kurds-SE why is that a problem for you


Very well said. I agree.

You are right about the Kurds_SE. It's from Dilawers old calculators right?

Here it is:

https://i.imgur.com/3k7dm2f.png


That's clearly not a Kurd judging from its difference to the other Kurdish references in a K6 calculator. It has way too high Ancestral_South_Asian also higher East_Asian and way lower Natufian than the other Kurds. Thats also clearly deceiving the users too.
I also suspect him using that sample and present it as Kurdish_Iraq. Also Zoro used to send an Iraq Kurdish sample scoring like 10% East Asian couple of years ago. However the other components also suggested that it couldnt be a fully Kurdish sample. Another case of deceiving. Although he will probably start a rant over it too now.

"Kurd from Balochistan"

Gedrosia K12

Target: Kurds_SE
Distance: 2.3296% / 2.32961727 | R4P
70.9 Pashtun_Afghan
17.7 Makrani
8.4 Bhunjia
3.0 Yoruba

Target: Kurds_SE
Distance: 4.0627% / 4.06266314 | R3P
73.1 Pashtun_Afghan
17.9 Makrani
9.0 Bhunjia

Target: Kurds_SE
Distance: 6.5437% / 6.54371423 | R2P
71.4 Pashtun_Afghan
28.6 Sindhi

Let's assume it isn't actually Dilawar. Is this how a Balochi "Kurd" scores? This is not a Kurd at all. It is irresponsible to label this person as a Kurd regardless of how they identify. Your idol(assuming we're not talking about you) should know better than to do this, correct? If I saw a person claiming to be Pennsylvania Dutch and they showed clear 50% African ancestry and the rest Italian, wouldn't it be irresponsible of me to include that in a database, let alone never point it out thereby misleading everyone else?

For a long ass time it made me think I was closer to Kurds than I actually was.

[Zanzibar]

Arabians clearly descend to a large degree from some very drifted source population and need an additional component to bring their fits to a reasonable level and represent all their ancestral streams better, or else some sub-optimal component like Natufian will eat up all their SSA. G25 is definitely deflating their SSA ancestry to some extent. I can accept that Bedouins might have fairly low to nil SSA and the same may apply to a few Yemeni groups that are located in very remote areas because of their lack of involvement in the cosmopolitan slave trade, but the rest? Hard to believe.

Once we get proper samples, we should be able to get a more precise account of their actual SSA percentage. Although, there’s probably scientific papers out there which have already come to a conclusion on this topic. We’d need to do some looking.

I also believe it could be a sampling issue. Like the researchers intentionally choose the isolated inland Yemeni communities to sample because they are "pure Arabs" while ignoring the more urban and coastal areas.

Here is when the Arabians are modelled using the simulated coordinates by Korotyr btw. It seem most of their African ancestry is now ANA or ANA-like followed by minor East African/Dinka-related stuff.

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 4.0316% / 0.04031645
69.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.8 ANA_(simulated)
7.2 RUS_AfontovaGora3
6.4 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
2.8 Yoruba
2.2 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
1.4 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
1.2 Anatolia-related_(simulated)

Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.2515% / 0.04251478
69.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
10.0 ANA_(simulated)
7.6 RUS_AfontovaGora3
6.8 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
3.2 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
1.4 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
0.8 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
0.8 Dinka


Here is what happened when the Arabians are modelled using the simulated coordinates by Korotyr btw. It seem most of their negroid admix is now ANA followed by minor East African/Dinka-related stuff.

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 4.2117% / 0.04211661
69.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
10.6 ANA_(simulated)
7.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3
6.8 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
2.2 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
1.6 Dinka
1.2 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
1.2 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.2515% / 0.04251478
69.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
10.0 ANA_(simulated)
7.6 RUS_AfontovaGora3
6.8 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
3.2 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
1.4 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
0.8 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
0.8 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 3.2770% / 0.03276987
66.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.2 ANA_(simulated)
7.6 RUS_AfontovaGora3
7.2 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
3.6 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
3.2 Dinka
2.2 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
0.8 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.8055% / 0.03805483
68.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.0 ANA_(simulated)
6.6 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
6.2 RUS_AfontovaGora3
4.0 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
2.2 Yoruba
2.0 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
1.2 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 3.1292% / 0.03129194
63.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
8.8 ANA_(simulated)
8.6 RUS_AfontovaGora3
7.0 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
4.0 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
3.6 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
2.2 Dinka
2.2 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 3.1785% / 0.03178458
65.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.2 ANA_(simulated)
7.2 RUS_AfontovaGora3
6.4 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
3.8 Dinka
2.8 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
2.8 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
2.2 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.8490% / 0.03848959
68.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
8.8 ANA_(simulated)
7.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3
6.4 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
3.2 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
2.4 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
2.0 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
1.8 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.5374% / 0.03537392
67.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.2 ANA_(simulated)
7.0 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
6.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3
3.0 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
2.6 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
2.6 Dinka
1.4 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 3.3355% / 0.03335494
71.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
10.6 ANA_(simulated)
7.0 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
5.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3
4.4 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
0.8 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
0.4 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

These are the most SSA-shifted Arabians btw:

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y025
Distance: 3.7158% / 0.03715849
64.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.2 RUS_AfontovaGora3
8.2 ANA_(simulated)
5.4 Dinka
5.2 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
2.6 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
2.6 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
2.2 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf:Y217
Distance: 4.0615% / 0.04061491
66.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
8.4 ANA_(simulated)
6.0 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
5.8 RUS_AfontovaGora3
5.0 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
4.8 Dinka
2.0 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
1.6 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y018
Distance: 4.0225% / 0.04022520
61.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
8.6 ANA_(simulated)
7.8 RUS_AfontovaGora3
6.4 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
5.2 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
4.4 Dinka
3.2 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
3.0 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y006
Distance: 3.7935% / 0.03793500
64.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.6 ANA_(simulated)
8.0 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
7.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3
3.8 Dinka
3.4 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
2.8 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
0.6 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: BedouinB:HGDP00624
Distance: 3.8330% / 0.03832990
66.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
10.8 ANA_(simulated)
7.4 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
6.6 RUS_AfontovaGora3
3.2 Dinka
2.6 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
2.0 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
1.2 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y382
Distance: 2.9521% / 0.02952118
67.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.8 ANA_(simulated)
6.6 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
5.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3
2.8 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
2.6 Yoruba
2.2 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
1.8 Dinka
1.0 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

[Borealis]

I also believe it could be a sampling issue. Like the researchers intentionally choose the isolated inland Yemeni communities to sample because they are "pure Arabs" while ignoring the more urban and coastal areas.

Here is when the Arabians are modelled using the simulated coordinates by Korotyr btw. It seem most of their African ancestry is now ANA or ANA-like followed by minor East African/Dinka-related stuff.

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 4.0316% / 0.04031645
69.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.8 ANA_(simulated)
7.2 RUS_AfontovaGora3
6.4 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
2.8 Yoruba
2.2 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
1.4 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
1.2 Anatolia-related_(simulated)

Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.2515% / 0.04251478
69.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
10.0 ANA_(simulated)
7.6 RUS_AfontovaGora3
6.8 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
3.2 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
1.4 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
0.8 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
0.8 Dinka


Here is what happened when the Arabians are modelled using the simulated coordinates by Korotyr btw. It seem most of their negroid admix is now ANA followed by minor East African/Dinka-related stuff.

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 4.2117% / 0.04211661
69.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
10.6 ANA_(simulated)
7.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3
6.8 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
2.2 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
1.6 Dinka
1.2 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
1.2 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.2515% / 0.04251478
69.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
10.0 ANA_(simulated)
7.6 RUS_AfontovaGora3
6.8 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
3.2 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
1.4 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
0.8 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
0.8 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 3.2770% / 0.03276987
66.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.2 ANA_(simulated)
7.6 RUS_AfontovaGora3
7.2 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
3.6 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
3.2 Dinka
2.2 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
0.8 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.8055% / 0.03805483
68.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.0 ANA_(simulated)
6.6 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
6.2 RUS_AfontovaGora3
4.0 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
2.2 Yoruba
2.0 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
1.2 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 3.1292% / 0.03129194
63.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
8.8 ANA_(simulated)
8.6 RUS_AfontovaGora3
7.0 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
4.0 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
3.6 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
2.2 Dinka
2.2 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 3.1785% / 0.03178458
65.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.2 ANA_(simulated)
7.2 RUS_AfontovaGora3
6.4 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
3.8 Dinka
2.8 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
2.8 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
2.2 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.8490% / 0.03848959
68.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
8.8 ANA_(simulated)
7.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3
6.4 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
3.2 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
2.4 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
2.0 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
1.8 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.5374% / 0.03537392
67.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.2 ANA_(simulated)
7.0 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
6.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3
3.0 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
2.6 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
2.6 Dinka
1.4 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 3.3355% / 0.03335494
71.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
10.6 ANA_(simulated)
7.0 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
5.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3
4.4 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
0.8 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
0.4 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

These are the most SSA-shifted Arabians btw:

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y025
Distance: 3.7158% / 0.03715849
64.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.2 RUS_AfontovaGora3
8.2 ANA_(simulated)
5.4 Dinka
5.2 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
2.6 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
2.6 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
2.2 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf:Y217
Distance: 4.0615% / 0.04061491
66.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
8.4 ANA_(simulated)
6.0 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
5.8 RUS_AfontovaGora3
5.0 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
4.8 Dinka
2.0 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
1.6 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y018
Distance: 4.0225% / 0.04022520
61.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
8.6 ANA_(simulated)
7.8 RUS_AfontovaGora3
6.4 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
5.2 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
4.4 Dinka
3.2 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
3.0 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y006
Distance: 3.7935% / 0.03793500
64.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.6 ANA_(simulated)
8.0 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
7.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3
3.8 Dinka
3.4 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
2.8 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
0.6 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: BedouinB:HGDP00624
Distance: 3.8330% / 0.03832990
66.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
10.8 ANA_(simulated)
7.4 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
6.6 RUS_AfontovaGora3
3.2 Dinka
2.6 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
2.0 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
1.2 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y382
Distance: 3.0015% / 0.03001530
67.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.8 ANA_(simulated)
6.8 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
5.6 RUS_AfontovaGora3

There has to be a reason why the raw distances between the Yemenis and Africans are so high. The majority SSA being less direct Dinka or Horner and more ANA like would go far to explain it.

[Zanzibar]

There has to be a reason why the raw distances between the Yemenis and Africans are so high. The majority SSA being less direct Dinka or Horner and more ANA like would go far to explain it.

Btw the last individual (Dhamar:Y382) was an incomplete result so I post it again.

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y382
Distance: 2.9521% / 0.02952118
67.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.8 ANA_(simulated)
6.6 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
5.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3
2.8 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
2.6 Yoruba
2.2 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
1.8 Dinka
1.0 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Yes if their SSA being mostly ANA or ANA-related rather than East African as we assumed, then it would make sense why they are so far from them.

I have a feeling the distance between Yemenis and Africans will decrease if there are also more cosmopolitan and coastal Yemeni samples from places like Sana'a, Aden, Taiz, Mukalla, Hudaydah and Socotra.

[Zoro]

"Kurd from Balochistan"

Gedrosia K12

Target: Kurds_SE
Distance: 2.3296% / 2.32961727 | R4P
70.9 Pashtun_Afghan
17.7 Makrani
8.4 Bhunjia
3.0 Yoruba

Target: Kurds_SE
Distance: 4.0627% / 4.06266314 | R3P
73.1 Pashtun_Afghan
17.9 Makrani
9.0 Bhunjia

Target: Kurds_SE
Distance: 6.5437% / 6.54371423 | R2P
71.4 Pashtun_Afghan
28.6 Sindhi

Let's assume it isn't actually Dilawar. Is this how a Balochi "Kurd" scores? This is not a Kurd at all. It is irresponsible to label this person as a Kurd regardless of how they identify. Your idol(assuming we're not talking about you) should know better than to do this, correct? If I saw a person claiming to be Pennsylvania Dutch and they showed clear 50% African ancestry and the rest Italian, wouldn't it be irresponsible of me to include that in a database, let alone never point it out thereby misleading everyone else?

For a long ass time it made me think I was closer to Kurds than I actually was.

I’m not sure. This type of specific question you should ask him. I don’t even know how many samples are used there. I checked and this seems to be a calculator with a baluch component maybe that’s the reason just like the dodecad k12 people with high baloch scores show further from their neighbors than reality because of their drift. I remember seeing the 23andme results for Dilawer somewhere on his website and they were more W. Asian than S.Asian shifted.

I don’t know what your ethnic background is but in reality using IBS NW Indians such as Punjabis and Sindhis have high similarity with Kurds and other Iranians because of shared Iran-N, Steppe and other components

[Borealis]

I’m not sure. This type of specific question you should ask him. I don’t even know how many samples are used there. I checked and this seems to be a calculator with a baluch component maybe that’s the reason just like the dodecad k12 people with high baloch scores show further from their neighbors than reality because of their drift. I remember seeing the 23andme results for Dilawer somewhere on his website and they were more W. Asian than S.Asian shifted.

I don’t know what your ethnic background is but in reality using IBS NW Indians such as Punjabis and Sindhis have high similarity with Kurds and other Iranians because of shared Iran-N, Steppe and other components

I've found everything you were talking about on a single page on his website. And as a bonus, I also found him reiterating crazy bullshit that he posted on anthrogenica(that post was deleted by a moderator btw).

It went something along the lines of "if your ancestry result does not show that you are at least 10% of whatever phenotypic influences you have, then that test is not valid". He says the same here by arguing about "ancient" E Asian showing up in people's facial features but not genetic tests because the E Asian is already baked into the reference population supposedly. Which is true to an extent but massively exaggerated.

His 23andme is there too by the way. Kurd SE is almost certainly Dilawer himself based on the description there. "A mixture of the Kurds from Iraq and from the Kurds of Balochistan and the Balochi people of Iran". I have seen old genetic results of Pashtuns and Balochis on 23andme and I remember they scored a LOT of West Asian in the past before the algorithm was refined. His results don't seem atypical except for the unusually high East Asian.
https://eurasiandna.com/how-to-interpret-your-ancestry-admixture-results/

[Zanzibar]

There has to be a reason why the raw distances between the Yemenis and Africans are so high. The majority SSA being less direct Dinka or Horner and more ANA like would go far to explain it.

Btw do you consider ANA as SSA or at least indigenous African admixture? It seems to be much closer to negrid/SSAs (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21478-Questions-about-SSA-ANA-admixture-among-north-africans&p=695243&viewfull=1#post695243) than Eurasians and seems to strongly pull North Africans further away (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21478-Questions-about-SSA-ANA-admixture-among-north-africans&p=695699&viewfull=1#post695699) from Near Easterners/West Asians and towards SSAs in PCAs.

I guess we can consider Arabians as having around 10-15% African ancestry then with around 8-10% ANA/ANA-like admixture and 0-5% SSA mainly of Dinka/East African-related with some West African/Bantu-like admixture?

[Borealis]

Btw do you consider ANA as SSA or at least indigenous African admixture? It seems to be much closer to negrid/SSAs (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21478-Questions-about-SSA-ANA-admixture-among-north-africans&p=695243&viewfull=1#post695243) than Eurasians and seems to strongly pull North Africans further away (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21478-Questions-about-SSA-ANA-admixture-among-north-africans&p=695699&viewfull=1#post695699) from Near Easterners/West Asians and towards SSAs in PCAs.

I guess we can consider Arabians as having around 10-15% African ancestry then with around 8-10% ANA/ANA-like admixture and 0-5% SSA mainly of Dinka/East African-related with some West African/Bantu-like admixture?

I consider it as a very drifted form of SSA.

Target: MAR_Taforalt
Distance: 26.3623% / 0.26362310
66.8 MAR_LN
33.2 Hadza

Target: MAR_Taforalt
Distance: 29.1991% / 0.29199098
58.0 Levant_PPNB
42.0 Hadza


It's a terrible fit because no modern SSA groups can be used to model it alhough it could also be a byproduct of the West Eurasian source not being optimal(Morocco LN or Levant PPNB). Iberomaurisian is just kind of anomaly as far as ancients are concerned. A very distinctive component made of two other distinct components.

As the person in the AG thread was alluding to, North Africans(practically all of them, even isolated Berber tribes) are closer to SSA groups than even Egyptians are.

Distance to: Hadza
0.46008900 Berber_MAR_ERR
0.46236810 Moroccan
0.47484468 Algerian
0.48367180 Mozabite
0.49111105 Libyan
0.49176807 Tunisian_Berber_Matmata
0.49207286 Tunisian
0.51090869 Tunisian_Berber_Tamezret
0.51588225 Tunisian_Berber_Zraoua
0.51938843 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.51968203 Egyptian

So yes, there is something SSA-like in Taforalt/Iberomaurisian that we refer to as ANA. This is not surprising by the way-North Africa had green periods in which it was possible for people from the east and south to colonize those lands. ANA probably represents a very archaic SSA related incursion into North Africa from the Sahel region during one of these green periods when the land was savannah as opposed to desert, allowing hunter gatherers to forage. Iberomarusian then is most likely a mixture of those indviduals and very ancient west-bound hunter gatherers from the Levant.

[Zanzibar]

I consider it as a very drifted form of SSA.

Target: MAR_Taforalt
Distance: 26.3623% / 0.26362310
66.8 MAR_LN
33.2 Hadza

Target: MAR_Taforalt
Distance: 29.1991% / 0.29199098
58.0 Levant_PPNB
42.0 Hadza


It's a terrible fit because no modern SSA groups can be used to model it alhough it could also be a byproduct of the West Eurasian source not being optimal(Morocco LN or Levant PPNB). Iberomaurisian is just kind of anomaly as far as ancients are concerned. A very distinctive component made of two other distinct components.

As the person in the AG thread was alluding to, North Africans(practically all of them, even isolated Berber tribes) are closer to SSA groups than even Egyptians are.

Distance to: Hadza
0.46008900 Berber_MAR_ERR
0.46236810 Moroccan
0.47484468 Algerian
0.48367180 Mozabite
0.49111105 Libyan
0.49176807 Tunisian_Berber_Matmata
0.49207286 Tunisian
0.51090869 Tunisian_Berber_Tamezret
0.51588225 Tunisian_Berber_Zraoua
0.51938843 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.51968203 Egyptian

So yes, there is something SSA-like in Taforalt/Iberomaurisian that we refer to as ANA. This is not surprising by the way-North Africa had green periods in which it was possible for people from the east and south to colonize those lands. ANA probably represents a very archaic SSA related incursion into North Africa from the Sahel region during one of these green periods when the land was savannah as opposed to desert, allowing hunter gatherers to forage. Iberomarusian then is most likely a mixture of those indviduals and very ancient west-bound hunter gatherers from the Levant.

You are right, you can't really get a good fit with modern SSA groups. You will have to use simulated coordinates (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19294-Is-there-really-Basal-Eurasian-and-or-Iranian-Caucasus-related-ancestry-in-Anatolia&p=705050&viewfull=1#post705050) in Anthrogenica for this.

Target: MAR_Taforalt
Distance: 2.1718% / 0.02171846
50.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
47.4 ANA_(simulated)
1.6 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
0.8 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)

Replace Hadza with ANA, a lot better fit but still terrible:

Target: MAR_Taforalt
Distance: 9.8638% / 0.09863806
65.0 MAR_LN
35.0 ANA_(simulated)

What does optimal means in this case? Agreed, it is distinct with its ANA portion being a pretty unique African lineage. Pretty crazy how its so far from everyone....

Distance to: ANA_(simulated)
0.67254463 Fulani
0.67258860 Fulani_Ziniare
0.68309801 Bulala
0.68963288 Mada
0.69948234 Mandenka
0.70154978 Dinka
0.70187700 Gambian
0.70289105 Kikuyu
0.70337910 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.70351239 Sudanese
0.70510290 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.70604491 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.70619044 Kaba
0.70721988 Sengwer
0.71063118 Laka
0.71087044 Masai
0.71361849 Elmolo
0.71379047 Bantu_Kenya
0.71395844 Luo
0.71406959 Ogiek
0.71490082 Sandawe
0.71617414 Luhya_Kenya
0.71678222 Cameroon_Bangwa
0.71680314 Ethiopian_Ari_blacksmith
0.71702704 Datog

Thank you for the detailed explanation. Agreed about Maghrebis being closer to SSAs than Egyptians are. There are some North African individuals which are further away from SSAs than the Egyptian average, but you have to literally cherrypicked them for the least SSA admixed ones like these:

Distance to: Hadza
0.47484468 Algerian
0.49207286 Tunisian
0.51329345 Moroccan_North
0.51938843 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.51968203 Egyptian
0.52944111 Moroccan_North:MCH13
0.53654730 Moroccan_North:MNA3
0.54150769 Algerian:ALG200


I guess we can also consider Arabians as being around 10-15% African then with most of their African being mostly ANA/ANA-like followed by around 0-5% East African (Dinka or Horner)-related and West African-Bantu admixture?

It's interesting coz Natufian and JOR_EBA the main components of Arabians seem to have a lot of ANA ancestry. That's probably where Arabians got most of their ANA from. And probably also from Horner admixture as well as Horn Africans seem to have some ANA admixture as well.

Target: Levant_Natufian
Distance: 2.7943% / 0.02794315
75.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
16.0 ANA_(simulated)
3.2 RUS_AfontovaGora3
3.0 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
2.0 ETH_4500BP
0.2 Anatolia-related_(simulated)

Target: Levant_JOR_EBA
Distance: 3.2586% / 0.03258628
65.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
8.0 ANA_(simulated)
7.2 RUS_AfontovaGora3
7.0 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
6.6 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
3.2 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
2.2 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)

Interestingly, Horners also have some Iran_N, probably from their MENA admixture.

Target: Ethiopian_Afar
Distance: 4.1902% / 0.04190232
41.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
39.0 Dinka
8.2 ANA_(simulated)
7.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.4 ETH_4500BP

Target: Somali
Distance: 4.8294% / 0.04829424
50.8 Dinka
34.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
7.4 ANA_(simulated)
4.4 ETH_4500BP
3.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Another model for Arabians:

Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.1143% / 0.04114287
60.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
20.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.6 ANA_(simulated)
8.6 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
2.0 Yoruba
0.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 4.0091% / 0.04009098
59.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
17.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.6 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
9.2 ANA_(simulated)
2.6 Yoruba
0.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara


Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 3.0154% / 0.03015399
54.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
23.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.2 ANA_(simulated)
7.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
3.2 Yoruba
1.2 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
1.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara


Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.7293% / 0.03729271
57.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
21.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.2 ANA_(simulated)
6.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
4.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
2.2 Yoruba


Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 2.7347% / 0.02734747
47.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
22.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.4 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
7.6 ANA_(simulated)
7.2 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
2.4 Yoruba
1.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara


Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 2.8711% / 0.02871076
52.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
16.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
12.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
8.2 ANA_(simulated)
5.6 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
3.4 Yoruba
0.6 Dinka


Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.5521% / 0.03552132
56.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
16.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
16.0 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
7.8 ANA_(simulated)
2.4 Yoruba
1.0 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.4122% / 0.03412157
55.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
19.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.0 ANA_(simulated)
7.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
6.8 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
2.6 Yoruba
0.2 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 3.3671% / 0.03367071
63.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
23.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.8 ANA_(simulated)
2.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
0.2 Han
0.2 Yoruba


Most Negrid-shifted Arabians:

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y025
Distance: 2.9990% / 0.02999046
51.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
17.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
7.0 ANA_(simulated)
6.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
2.8 Dinka
2.8 Yoruba
1.2 GEO_CHG

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y018
Distance: 4.1424% / 0.04142394
43.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
21.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
16.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
7.2 ANA_(simulated)
4.0 Dinka
3.6 GEO_CHG
2.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
1.4 TUR_Barcin_N
0.4 Yoruba



Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf:Y217
Distance: 3.9812% / 0.03981185
55.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
19.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.6 ANA_(simulated)
5.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
5.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
3.2 Yoruba
2.0 Dinka
0.6 Han

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y006
Distance: 3.2941% / 0.03294076
50.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.8 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
8.0 ANA_(simulated)
4.4 Yoruba
0.4 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y382
Distance: 3.2180% / 0.03217962
55.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
18.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.2 TUR_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
8.6 ANA_(simulated)
4.2 Kura-Araxes_ARM_Kaps
2.4 Dinka
2.0 Yoruba

It seems every population which has Natufian or Levant_N including other Middle Easterners including Lebanese Christians, Iraqis, Assyrians, Samaritans, Mizrahi Jews, maybe even some Turks and Iranians etc. will have minor amounts of ANA admixture as well.

[Alazair]

ANA is probably a sister branch of basal eurasian that didn't participate in the OOA and actually gave birth to many SSA groups in west and east africa ; Most probably linked to the aterian culture that is found from Morocco to the red Sea and from the med sea to the lake chad.

[Borealis]

You are right, you can't really get a good fit with modern SSA groups. You will have to use simulated coordinates (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?19294-Is-there-really-Basal-Eurasian-and-or-Iranian-Caucasus-related-ancestry-in-Anatolia&p=705050&viewfull=1#post705050) in Anthrogenica for this.

Target: MAR_Taforalt
Distance: 2.1718% / 0.02171846
50.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
47.4 ANA_(simulated)
1.6 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
0.8 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)

Replace Hadza with ANA, a lot better fit but still terrible:

Target: MAR_Taforalt
Distance: 9.8638% / 0.09863806
65.0 MAR_LN
35.0 ANA_(simulated)

What does optimal means in this case? Agreed, it is distinct with its ANA portion being a pretty unique African lineage. Pretty crazy how its so far from everyone....

Distance to: ANA_(simulated)
0.67254463 Fulani
0.67258860 Fulani_Ziniare
0.68309801 Bulala
0.68963288 Mada
0.69948234 Mandenka
0.70154978 Dinka
0.70187700 Gambian
0.70289105 Kikuyu
0.70337910 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.70351239 Sudanese
0.70510290 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.70604491 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.70619044 Kaba
0.70721988 Sengwer
0.71063118 Laka
0.71087044 Masai
0.71361849 Elmolo
0.71379047 Bantu_Kenya
0.71395844 Luo
0.71406959 Ogiek
0.71490082 Sandawe
0.71617414 Luhya_Kenya
0.71678222 Cameroon_Bangwa
0.71680314 Ethiopian_Ari_blacksmith
0.71702704 Datog

Thank you for the detailed explanation. Agreed about Maghrebis being closer to SSAs than Egyptians are. There are some North African individuals which are further away from SSAs than the Egyptian average, but you have to literally cherrypicked them for the least SSA admixed ones like these:

Distance to: Hadza
0.47484468 Algerian
0.49207286 Tunisian
0.51329345 Moroccan_North
0.51938843 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.51968203 Egyptian
0.52944111 Moroccan_North:MCH13
0.53654730 Moroccan_North:MNA3
0.54150769 Algerian:ALG200


I guess we can also consider Arabians as being around 10-15% African then with most of their African being mostly ANA/ANA-like followed by around 0-5% East African (Dinka or Horner)-related and West African-Bantu admixture?

It's interesting coz Natufian and JOR_EBA the main components of Arabians seem to have a lot of ANA ancestry. That's probably where Arabians got most of their ANA from. And probably also from Horner admixture as well as Horn Africans seem to have some ANA admixture as well.

Target: Levant_Natufian
Distance: 2.7943% / 0.02794315
75.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
16.0 ANA_(simulated)
3.2 RUS_AfontovaGora3
3.0 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
2.0 ETH_4500BP
0.2 Anatolia-related_(simulated)

Target: Levant_JOR_EBA
Distance: 3.2586% / 0.03258628
65.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
8.0 ANA_(simulated)
7.2 RUS_AfontovaGora3
7.0 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
6.6 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
3.2 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
2.2 S_AASI_Sim(Hakkipikki)

Interestingly, Horners also have some Iran_N, probably from their MENA admixture.


It seems every population which has Natufian or Levant_N including other Middle Easterners including Lebanese Christians, Iraqis, Assyrians, Samaritans, Mizrahi Jews, maybe even some Turks and Iranians etc. will have minor amounts of ANA admixture as well.

Target: Libyan
Distance: 5.0634% / 0.05063379
48.0 TUR_Barcin_N
24.6 MAR_Taforalt
14.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.2 Dinka
2.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 5.7476% / 0.05747639
51.6 TUR_Barcin_N
23.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
15.6 MAR_Taforalt
9.8 Dinka

Target: Berber_Tunisia_Chen
Distance: 2.2955% / 0.02295476
48.8 TUR_Barcin_N
36.8 MAR_Taforalt
7.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
4.2 Dinka
3.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Algerian
Distance: 3.3659% / 0.03365885
46.0 TUR_Barcin_N
28.4 MAR_Taforalt
13.0 Dinka
7.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
5.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Moroccan
Distance: 3.8433% / 0.03843339
43.0 TUR_Barcin_N
32.2 MAR_Taforalt
13.4 Dinka
7.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Saudi
Distance: 13.2172% / 0.13217222
54.0 TUR_Barcin_N
27.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
18.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 11.9775% / 0.11977473
55.0 TUR_Barcin_N
26.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
18.2 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 12.2830% / 0.12282971
55.4 TUR_Barcin_N
27.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
16.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 11.6044% / 0.11604362
52.6 TUR_Barcin_N
28.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
19.0 MAR_Taforalt

We gotta realize that North Africans not only have a lot of Iberomaurisian(and hence ANA), they also have a lot of proper African admixture, in the case of non-Berbers it is higher than Egyptians. They also have twice as much Iberomaurisian than the Arabians do. The Arab samples we have cannot be more than 10% African MAX in reality theyre probably lower close to 7% because Taforalt/Ibero is only 35% ANA/SSA.

Could you provide me the simulated ANA? I want to try it in combination with the real Natufian sample and see if it reveals anything. By optimal I mean it serves as a good proxy with a good fit.

[Alazair]

We gotta realize that North Africans not only have a lot of Iberomaurisian(and hence ANA), they also have a lot of proper African admixture, in the case of non-Berbers it is higher than Egyptians. They also have twice as much Iberomaurisian than the Arabians do. The Arab samples we have cannot be more than 10% African MAX in reality theyre probably lower close to 7% because Taforalt/Ibero is only 35% ANA/SSA.

Could you provide me the simulated ANA? I want to try it in combination with the real Natufian sample and see if it reveals anything. By optimal I mean it serves as a good proxy with a good fit.

"moroccan" on g25 is based on 9 samples from casablanca, that would be like taking 9 random samples from Paris and then drew conclusions about the whole french population. As for "algerian" it has samples from cities far in the south (cities like Timimoun for example) which inflate the level of SSA of the average sample.

They literally look like this there :

https://i.imgur.com/61RqraU.jpg?1
https://i.imgur.com/SPapjnr.jpg


Egyptians have lots of natufian which has ANA and iran_N does have it too If I'm not mistaken (+ you add their dinka and yoruba like ancestry).


There is no way people like this have less ssa ancestry than berbers like kabyles,north moroccans, chleuh, etc :

https://i.imgur.com/erTgYAk.jpg

[Roy]

Btw the last individual (Dhamar:Y382) was an incomplete result so I post it again.

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar:Y382
Distance: 2.9521% / 0.02952118
67.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
9.8 ANA_(simulated)
6.6 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
5.4 RUS_AfontovaGora3
2.8 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
2.6 Yoruba
2.2 S_AASI_Sim_Hakkipikki
1.8 Dinka
1.0 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

Yes if their SSA being mostly ANA or ANA-related rather than East African as we assumed, then it would make sense why they are so far from them.

I have a feeling the distance between Yemenis and Africans will decrease if there are also more cosmopolitan and coastal Yemeni samples from places like Sana'a, Aden, Taiz, Mukalla, Hudaydah and Socotra.

Even if that ANA is lower than 10%? It would be enough to pull them off so far if it is that instead of SSA?

[E1b1b]

I consider it as a very drifted form of SSA.

Target: MAR_Taforalt
Distance: 26.3623% / 0.26362310
66.8 MAR_LN
33.2 Hadza

Target: MAR_Taforalt
Distance: 29.1991% / 0.29199098
58.0 Levant_PPNB
42.0 Hadza


It's a terrible fit because no modern SSA groups can be used to model it alhough it could also be a byproduct of the West Eurasian source not being optimal(Morocco LN or Levant PPNB). Iberomaurisian is just kind of anomaly as far as ancients are concerned. A very distinctive component made of two other distinct components.

As the person in the AG thread was alluding to, North Africans(practically all of them, even isolated Berber tribes) are closer to SSA groups than even Egyptians are.

Distance to: Hadza
0.46008900 Berber_MAR_ERR
0.46236810 Moroccan
0.47484468 Algerian
0.48367180 Mozabite
0.49111105 Libyan
0.49176807 Tunisian_Berber_Matmata
0.49207286 Tunisian
0.51090869 Tunisian_Berber_Tamezret
0.51588225 Tunisian_Berber_Zraoua
0.51938843 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
0.51968203 Egyptian

So yes, there is something SSA-like in Taforalt/Iberomaurisian that we refer to as ANA. This is not surprising by the way-North Africa had green periods in which it was possible for people from the east and south to colonize those lands. ANA probably represents a very archaic SSA related incursion into North Africa from the Sahel region during one of these green periods when the land was savannah as opposed to desert, allowing hunter gatherers to forage. Iberomarusian then is most likely a mixture of those indviduals and very ancient west-bound hunter gatherers from the Levant.


ANA isn't SSA though. It's one of the earliest splits from the rest that ever happened. ANA split from the rest BEFORE basal Eurasian split from OOA people. So ANA has been evolving separately from SSA for a longer amount of time that all Eurasians have been. SSA does have ANA admixture though from North African cultures mixing into them, for example Kiffians.

[Zanzibar]

ANA isn't SSA though. It's one of the earliest splits from the rest that ever happened. ANA split from the rest BEFORE basal Eurasian split from OOA people. So ANA has been evolving separately from SSA for a longer amount of time that all Eurasians have been. SSA does have ANA admixture though from North African cultures mixing into them, for example Kiffians.

Its much closer to SSAs (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?25430-Is-the-African-ancestry-of-Arabians-underestimated-by-G25&p=822209&viewfull=1#post822209) than any Eurasian. It might not be SSA but its definitely an indigenous African (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21478-Questions-about-SSA-ANA-admixture-among-north-africans&p=695243&viewfull=1#post695243) population and behaves like one on PCA.

Distance to ANA: look at how the closest pops are all SSAs.

Distance to: ANA_(simulated)
0.67254463 Fulani
0.67258860 Fulani_Ziniare
0.68309801 Bulala
0.68963288 Mada
0.69948234 Mandenka
0.70154978 Dinka
0.70187700 Gambian
0.70289105 Kikuyu
0.70337910 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.70351239 Sudanese
0.70510290 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.70604491 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.70619044 Kaba
0.70721988 Sengwer
0.71063118 Laka
0.71087044 Masai
0.71361849 Elmolo
0.71379047 Bantu_Kenya
0.71395844 Luo
0.71406959 Ogiek
0.71490082 Sandawe
0.71617414 Luhya_Kenya
0.71678222 Cameroon_Bangwa
0.71680314 Ethiopian_Ari_blacksmith
0.71702704 Datog

[Leto]

Its much closer to SSAs (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?25430-Is-the-African-ancestry-of-Arabians-underestimated-by-G25&p=822209&viewfull=1#post822209) than any Eurasian. It might not be SSA but its definitely an indigenous African (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21478-Questions-about-SSA-ANA-admixture-among-north-africans&p=695243&viewfull=1#post695243) population and behaves like one on PCA.

Distance to ANA: look at how the closest pops are all SSAs.

Distance to: ANA_(simulated)
0.67254463 Fulani
0.67258860 Fulani_Ziniare
0.68309801 Bulala
0.68963288 Mada
0.69948234 Mandenka
0.70154978 Dinka
0.70187700 Gambian
0.70289105 Kikuyu
0.70337910 Ethiopian_Gumuz
0.70351239 Sudanese
0.70510290 Ethiopian_Anuak
0.70604491 Ethiopian_Mursi
0.70619044 Kaba
0.70721988 Sengwer
0.71063118 Laka
0.71087044 Masai
0.71361849 Elmolo
0.71379047 Bantu_Kenya
0.71395844 Luo
0.71406959 Ogiek
0.71490082 Sandawe
0.71617414 Luhya_Kenya
0.71678222 Cameroon_Bangwa
0.71680314 Ethiopian_Ari_blacksmith
0.71702704 Datog
So the question is whether they were black i.e. having an N word pass or not. :D

[Zanzibar]

Even if that ANA is lower than 10%? It would be enough to pull them off so far if it is that instead of SSA?

Sorry I'm a bit confused by your question. Can you rephrase it again?

[Zanzibar]

Target: Libyan
Distance: 5.0634% / 0.05063379
48.0 TUR_Barcin_N
24.6 MAR_Taforalt
14.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.2 Dinka
2.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 5.7476% / 0.05747639
51.6 TUR_Barcin_N
23.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
15.6 MAR_Taforalt
9.8 Dinka

Target: Berber_Tunisia_Chen
Distance: 2.2955% / 0.02295476
48.8 TUR_Barcin_N
36.8 MAR_Taforalt
7.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
4.2 Dinka
3.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Algerian
Distance: 3.3659% / 0.03365885
46.0 TUR_Barcin_N
28.4 MAR_Taforalt
13.0 Dinka
7.2 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
5.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N

Target: Moroccan
Distance: 3.8433% / 0.03843339
43.0 TUR_Barcin_N
32.2 MAR_Taforalt
13.4 Dinka
7.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.0 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Saudi
Distance: 13.2172% / 0.13217222
54.0 TUR_Barcin_N
27.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
18.4 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 11.9775% / 0.11977473
55.0 TUR_Barcin_N
26.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
18.2 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 12.2830% / 0.12282971
55.4 TUR_Barcin_N
27.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
16.8 MAR_Taforalt

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 11.6044% / 0.11604362
52.6 TUR_Barcin_N
28.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
19.0 MAR_Taforalt

We gotta realize that North Africans not only have a lot of Iberomaurisian(and hence ANA), they also have a lot of proper African admixture, in the case of non-Berbers it is higher than Egyptians. They also have twice as much Iberomaurisian than the Arabians do. The Arab samples we have cannot be more than 10% African MAX in reality theyre probably lower close to 7% because Taforalt/Ibero is only 35% ANA/SSA.

Could you provide me the simulated ANA? I want to try it in combination with the real Natufian sample and see if it reveals anything. By optimal I mean it serves as a good proxy with a good fit.

You are probably right about the Arabians having around 7-10% African ancestry. But does this already include additional Dinka/Nilotic and West African/Bantu admixture? Anyhow, it would aligns with older calculators such as Eurogenes K8 in which Saudis were around 7.07% SSA and Yemeni Jews around 7.42% SSA: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1JVGdg2UsN3jYWgaoxAZu-QsAmuCaq3kT7FvqSXwUsAA/pubhtml

Or in some Gedmatch calculators such as 1) Eurasia K6, Saudis were 6.6% African according to the spreadsheet while in 2) PuntDNAL Global K13, Saudi are 5.5% East African, 1.5% West African and 0.5% South African and Yemeni are 7% East African, 3.5% West African and 0.5% South African according to the spreadsheets there.

I'm not sure about the amount of ANA in Taforalt tbh. It can be modelled as ranging from 35 to 45% ANA (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21192-Reconciling-the-claimed-West-African-ancestry-in-certain-Great-Lakes-clans&p=700298&viewfull=1#post700298) depending on the paper. And Taforalt clusters north and closer to Eurasians in a PCA than the Agaw, a Cushitic ethnic group from Ethiopia who can be modeled as 51% East African agro-pastoralist, 8% Mota (which contains ghost modern ancestry), and 41% WE.

Here are the coordinates for ANA and other related components btw:



ANA_(simulated),-0.571392,-0.027419,0.013576,0.009855,0.040623,-0.015523,-0.162235,0.067998,0.243042,0.002005,-0.000784,-0.041239,0.081441,-0.148149,0.15178,-0.082206,0.072689,-0.168241,-0.366474,0.042,-0.114965,-0.336542,0.211801,-0.030807,0.023369
Proto-Natufian_(simulated),0.154549,0.185486,-0.045424,-0.181721,0.03489,-0.100323,0.001981,-0.039605,0.09774,0.004875,0.044136,-0.019354,0.081207,0.037592,-0.017759,0.025542,-0.036934,0.037069,0.054803,0.04523,0.025848,0.0795 25,-0.051595,0.007188,0.001536
Anatolia-related_(simulated),0.115155,0.156392,0.161136,-0.021577,0.148563,0.01786,-0.023271,0.028501,-0.048151,0.288924,-0.055841,0.078016,-0.24866,-0.097565,-0.174014,-0.037085,0.229531,-0.045251,-0.011016,-0.135266,-0.18256,-0.107516,0.06623,0.047026,-0.024767
Proto-CHG_(simulated),0.04636,0.166384,-0.284809,-0.095302,-0.22379,0.073092,0.136269,0.063533,-0.416586,-0.212161,-0.076884,0.082412,-0.195129,0.054375,0.118876,-0.097862,0.070937,-0.041895,-0.093389,0.101255,0.131293,-0.064192,0.01097,-0.089728,0.00942
Proto-IranHG_(simulated),-0.018132,0.220989,-0.444599,-0.189654,-0.384964,0.059763,0.116147,0.085296,-0.459418,-0.190244,-0.072849,0.022645,-0.086978,-0.027091,0.110616,0.195763,0.006996,-0.002614,0.033252,-0.190721,0.031566,-0.166249,-0.03519,-0.143988,0.070395



Target: MAR_Taforalt
Distance: 2.1718% / 0.02171846
50.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
47.4 ANA_(simulated)
1.6 Proto-CHG_(simulated)
0.8 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)

Natufian:


Target: Levant_Natufian
Distance: 3.2058% / 0.03205806
77.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
16.2 ANA_(simulated)
3.0 Proto-IranHG_(simulated)
2.8 ETH_4500BP
0.8 Anatolia-related_(simulated)
0.2 Proto-CHG_(simulated)

[Borealis]

ANA isn't SSA though. It's one of the earliest splits from the rest that ever happened. ANA split from the rest BEFORE basal Eurasian split from OOA people. So ANA has been evolving separately from SSA for a longer amount of time that all Eurasians have been. SSA does have ANA admixture though from North African cultures mixing into them, for example Kiffians.

I can believe it.

[E1b1b]

I can believe it.

https://imgur.com/etxtPKT

Lol its not like I made that shit up. It's literally what they said in the 2018 Dzudzuana paper.

[Borealis]

@Joqool I think we have our answers. make of it what you will.

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 15.2062% / 0.15206182
65.6 TUR_Barcin_N
28.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.0 ANA_(simulated)
2.2 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 13.3811% / 0.13381136
64.6 TUR_Barcin_N
28.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.4 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
3.0 ANA_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 13.5859% / 0.13585915
64.2 TUR_Barcin_N
29.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.8 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
2.6 ANA_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 12.5769% / 0.12576925
63.0 TUR_Barcin_N
28.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.4 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
3.4 ANA_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 11.4985% / 0.11498458
61.4 TUR_Barcin_N
31.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.0 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
3.2 ANA_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 13.9557% / 0.13955737
64.8 TUR_Barcin_N
28.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.0 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
3.0 ANA_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 13.0228% / 0.13022791
62.2 TUR_Barcin_N
29.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.2 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
3.2 ANA_(simulated)

Target: Algerian
Distance: 5.9869% / 0.05986948
60.6 TUR_Barcin_N
12.8 ANA_(simulated)
12.6 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
10.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Berber_Tunisia_Chen
Distance: 5.3296% / 0.05329600
68.0 TUR_Barcin_N
16.0 ANA_(simulated)
9.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.2 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
2.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Moroccan
Distance: 6.7373% / 0.06737334
59.6 TUR_Barcin_N
14.4 ANA_(simulated)
13.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.0 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP

Target: Libyan
Distance: 7.7471% / 0.07747126
60.4 TUR_Barcin_N
17.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
12.2 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
9.8 ANA_(simulated)

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 7.6532% / 0.07653173
59.0 TUR_Barcin_N
24.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.0 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
5.4 ANA_(simulated)

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 14.4211% / 0.14421057
64.0 TUR_Barcin_N
28.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.0 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
3.8 ANA_(simulated)

[Borealis]

https://imgur.com/etxtPKT

Lol its not like I made that shit up. It's literally what they said in the 2018 Dzudzuana paper.

Didn't accuse you of it.

But a lotta times these weird lineage "split" calculations and diagrams are inaccurate. There are multiple streams of ancestry in most pops and I worry that a lot of these studies are not taking that into account. For instance, someone cited a study which showed the Kalash "diverged" from their neighbors 10-11k years ago which is horseshit. They have steppe ancestry which didn't even arrive in the region until a few thousand years ago so this cannot be true. A combination of inbreeding and differing ancestral proportions can cause groups to seem like they've split earlier than they actually did or indeed later than they actually did.

[Zanzibar]

I can believe it.

You can believe this theory that it's not SSA? It's probably not but its seems much closer related to them than any Eurasian. And what's interesting is how even the 70% of autosomal DNA (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21478-Questions-about-SSA-ANA-admixture-among-north-africans&p=695175&viewfull=1#post695175) of West Africans might come from a clade that is closely related to ANA.

[Zanzibar]

@Joqool I think we have our answers. make of it what you will.

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 15.2062% / 0.15206182
65.6 TUR_Barcin_N
28.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.0 ANA_(simulated)
2.2 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP

Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 13.3811% / 0.13381136
64.6 TUR_Barcin_N
28.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.4 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
3.0 ANA_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 13.5859% / 0.13585915
64.2 TUR_Barcin_N
29.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.8 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
2.6 ANA_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 12.5769% / 0.12576925
63.0 TUR_Barcin_N
28.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.4 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
3.4 ANA_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 11.4985% / 0.11498458
61.4 TUR_Barcin_N
31.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.0 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
3.2 ANA_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 13.9557% / 0.13955737
64.8 TUR_Barcin_N
28.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.0 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
3.0 ANA_(simulated)

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 13.0228% / 0.13022791
62.2 TUR_Barcin_N
29.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.2 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
3.2 ANA_(simulated)

Target: Algerian
Distance: 5.9869% / 0.05986948
60.6 TUR_Barcin_N
12.8 ANA_(simulated)
12.6 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
10.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
3.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Berber_Tunisia_Chen
Distance: 5.3296% / 0.05329600
68.0 TUR_Barcin_N
16.0 ANA_(simulated)
9.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.2 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
2.6 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara

Target: Moroccan
Distance: 6.7373% / 0.06737334
59.6 TUR_Barcin_N
14.4 ANA_(simulated)
13.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.0 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP

Target: Libyan
Distance: 7.7471% / 0.07747126
60.4 TUR_Barcin_N
17.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
12.2 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
9.8 ANA_(simulated)

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 7.6532% / 0.07653173
59.0 TUR_Barcin_N
24.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.0 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
5.4 ANA_(simulated)

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 14.4211% / 0.14421057
64.0 TUR_Barcin_N
28.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
4.0 TZA_Zanzibar_1300BP
3.8 ANA_(simulated)

Well I consider ANA as definitely African as its much more closer to SSAs. And you should also include Proto-Natufian to improve the fits in my opinion.

Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.3350% / 0.04334959
61.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.2 ANA_(simulated)
2.8 TUR_Barcin_N
0.8 Dinka

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 4.1651% / 0.04165148
60.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.0 ANA_(simulated)
4.0 TUR_Barcin_N
2.6 Yoruba

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 3.1913% / 0.03191312
54.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.2 ANA_(simulated)
7.8 TUR_Barcin_N
3.2 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.9048% / 0.03904784
58.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.6 ANA_(simulated)
6.8 TUR_Barcin_N
1.6 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 3.0080% / 0.03008013
48.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
28.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.0 TUR_Barcin_N
7.6 ANA_(simulated)
2.4 Yoruba

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 3.1746% / 0.03174593
53.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.0 TUR_Barcin_N
8.2 ANA_(simulated)
3.6 Yoruba

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.9476% / 0.03947637
56.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.0 TUR_Barcin_N
7.8 ANA_(simulated)
1.8 Dinka


Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.6420% / 0.03642035
55.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.2 TUR_Barcin_N
8.0 ANA_(simulated)
2.6 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 3.3916% / 0.03391639
64.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.0 ANA_(simulated)
1.4 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 2.5556% / 0.02555623
30.0 TUR_Barcin_N
29.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
22.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.2 Dinka
7.0 ANA_(simulated)
4.0 Yoruba

Target: Libyan
Distance: 2.6833% / 0.02683307
30.8 TUR_Barcin_N
30.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
15.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.2 ANA_(simulated)
8.4 Yoruba
4.0 Dinka

Target: Tunisian
Distance: 2.9120% / 0.02911986
39.2 TUR_Barcin_N
23.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
13.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.2 ANA_(simulated)
8.6 Yoruba
1.8 Dinka

Target: Algerian
Distance: 3.1692% / 0.03169192
43.0 TUR_Barcin_N
19.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
13.4 ANA_(simulated)
11.2 Yoruba
11.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.0 Dinka
0.8 ETH_4500BP

Target: Moroccan_North
Distance: 3.3914% / 0.03391448
50.8 TUR_Barcin_N
17.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
15.2 ANA_(simulated)
10.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.8 Yoruba
0.4 ETH_4500BP

Target: Berber_Tunisia_Chen
Distance: 3.0893% / 0.03089337
50.4 TUR_Barcin_N
18.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
17.2 ANA_(simulated)
9.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.8 Yoruba
1.2 Dinka

[E1b1b]

You can believe this theory that it's not SSA? It's probably not but its seems much closer related to them than any Eurasian. And what's interesting is how even the 70% of autosomal DNA (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21478-Questions-about-SSA-ANA-admixture-among-north-africans&p=695175&viewfull=1#post695175) of West Africans might come from a clade that is closely related to ANA.

Sure they are closer, (do you have a pca that shows ANA compared for example to mbuti and a Eurasian lineage to see what the distance is?) but that doesn't mean much because the genetic drift between mbuti and ANA for example is still large and they are completely different populations with their own evolution of phenotype, language, and culture.

[Borealis]

Well I consider ANA as definitely African as its much more closer to SSAs. And you should also include Proto-Natufian to improve the fits in my opinion.

Target: Saudi
Distance: 4.3350% / 0.04334959
61.0 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.2 ANA_(simulated)
2.8 TUR_Barcin_N
0.8 Dinka

Target: BedouinB
Distance: 4.1651% / 0.04165148
60.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.0 ANA_(simulated)
4.0 TUR_Barcin_N
2.6 Yoruba

Target: Yemenite_Al_Bayda
Distance: 3.1913% / 0.03191312
54.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.2 ANA_(simulated)
7.8 TUR_Barcin_N
3.2 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Al_Jawf
Distance: 3.9048% / 0.03904784
58.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.6 ANA_(simulated)
6.8 TUR_Barcin_N
1.6 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Amran
Distance: 3.0080% / 0.03008013
48.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
28.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.0 TUR_Barcin_N
7.6 ANA_(simulated)
2.4 Yoruba

Target: Yemenite_Dhamar
Distance: 3.1746% / 0.03174593
53.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.8 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.0 TUR_Barcin_N
8.2 ANA_(simulated)
3.6 Yoruba

Target: Yemenite_Jew
Distance: 3.9476% / 0.03947637
56.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
26.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
8.0 TUR_Barcin_N
7.8 ANA_(simulated)
1.8 Dinka


Target: Yemenite_Ma'rib
Distance: 3.6420% / 0.03642035
55.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
9.2 TUR_Barcin_N
8.0 ANA_(simulated)
2.6 Dinka

Target: Yemenite_Mahra
Distance: 3.3916% / 0.03391639
64.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
24.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
10.0 ANA_(simulated)
1.4 TUR_Barcin_N

Target: Egyptian
Distance: 2.5556% / 0.02555623
30.0 TUR_Barcin_N
29.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
22.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
7.2 Dinka
7.0 ANA_(simulated)
4.0 Yoruba

Target: Libyan
Distance: 2.6833% / 0.02683307
30.8 TUR_Barcin_N
30.2 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
15.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.2 ANA_(simulated)
8.4 Yoruba
4.0 Dinka

Target: Tunisian
Distance: 2.9120% / 0.02911986
39.2 TUR_Barcin_N
23.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
13.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
13.2 ANA_(simulated)
8.6 Yoruba
1.8 Dinka

Target: Algerian
Distance: 3.1692% / 0.03169192
43.0 TUR_Barcin_N
19.6 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
13.4 ANA_(simulated)
11.2 Yoruba
11.0 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
1.0 Dinka
0.8 ETH_4500BP

Target: Moroccan_North
Distance: 3.3914% / 0.03391448
50.8 TUR_Barcin_N
17.4 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
15.2 ANA_(simulated)
10.4 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
5.8 Yoruba
0.4 ETH_4500BP

Target: Berber_Tunisia_Chen
Distance: 3.0893% / 0.03089337
50.4 TUR_Barcin_N
18.8 Proto-Natufian_(simulated)
17.2 ANA_(simulated)
9.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
2.8 Yoruba
1.2 Dinka

I will not use more than one simulation, no way. Even just one can cause issues. I'm just happy that the ANA simulation didn't fuck anything up in my model, such as what happened when you used two simulations and it showed Arabians having steppe.

[Zanzibar]

I will not use more than one simulation, no way. Even just one can cause issues. I'm just happy that the ANA simulation didn't fuck anything up in my model, such as what happened when you used two simulations and it showed Arabians having steppe.

I do think some Arabians could have minor Steppe though such as certain Arab tribes who live in Northern Arabia close to Levant and Mesopotamia or Yemenis from Amran who seem to have a lot of Levantine ancestry compared to other Peninsular Arabs.

[Borealis]

I do think some Arabians could have minor Steppe though such as certain Arab tribes who live in Northern Arabia close to Levant and Mesopotamia or Yemenis from Amran who seem to have a lot of Levantine ancestry compared to other Peninsular Arabs.

Certainly. But those northern tribes are Adnanis and should not be taken as the norm. There's also "Arabian" tribes in the deserts of western Iraq and eastern Syria(the user StonyArabia descends from them from his mom's side) which are heavily shifted towards Levantines and Mesopotamians. Probably even more than the Arabians from northern Arabia.

[Zanzibar]

Certainly. But those northern tribes are Adnanis and should not be taken as the norm. There's also "Arabian" tribes in the deserts of western Iraq and eastern Syria(the user StonyArabia descends from them from his mom's side) which are heavily shifted towards Levantines and Mesopotamians. Probably even more than the Arabians from northern Arabia.

Adnanis are different from other Arab tribes? Why shouldn't they be taken as the norm? Also there should be some minor Steppe among some Arabian tribes who live in Eastern Arabia and Gulf close to Southern Iran if they also absorbed and mixed with Persian migrants and settlers in the area.

I think the BedouinA in G25 might belong to one of those "Arabian" tribes in the Levant and Mesopotamia.

[Borealis]

Adnanis are different from other Arab tribes? Why shouldn't they be taken as the norm? Also there should be some minor Steppe among some Arabian tribes who live in Eastern Arabia and Gulf close to Southern Iran if they also absorbed and mixed with Persian migrants and settlers in the area.

I think the BedouinA in G25 might belong to one of those "Arabian" tribes in the Levant and Mesopotamia.

They are just northern/Levant/Meso shifted. But where one draws the line is hard to say.

Yea, BedouinA is from Israel.

[Zanzibar]

Sure they are closer, (do you have a pca that shows ANA compared for example to mbuti and a Eurasian lineage to see what the distance is?) but that doesn't mean much because the genetic drift between mbuti and ANA for example is still large and they are completely different populations with their own evolution of phenotype, language, and culture.

Here is one. Plot far away from Negrids/SSAs but still much closer to them than to Eurasians like Barcin_N, CHG, Iran_N and WHG.

https://i.imgur.com/TsVlYoI.png

[E1b1b]

Here is one. Plot far away from Negrids/SSAs but still much closer to them than to Eurasians like Barcin_N, CHG, Iran_N and WHG.

https://i.imgur.com/TsVlYoI.png

Yeah that's far, and ANA is also simulated so who knows how accurate that really is.

[Zanzibar]

Yeah that's far, and ANA is also simulated so who knows how accurate that really is.

We won't know more about this ANA stuff until more aDNA from Africa is released imo.

[Zanzibar]

I will not use more than one simulation, no way. Even just one can cause issues. I'm just happy that the ANA simulation didn't fuck anything up in my model, such as what happened when you used two simulations and it showed Arabians having steppe.

You wrote make of it what you will. I think it still a type of Paleolithic indigenous African ancestry. I want to know if your opinion on ANA being a heavily drifted SSA group still remain the same?

Also yes, in my opinion, Egyptians and Maghrebis have more African (SSA+ANA) blood than Peninsular Arabs do have African ancestry (ANA+SSA).

[Borealis]

You wrote make of it what you will. I think it still a type of Paleolithic indigenous African ancestry. I want to know if your opinion on ANA being a heavily drifted SSA group still remain the same?

Also yes, in my opinion, Egyptians and Maghrebis have more African (SSA+ANA) blood than Peninsular Arabs do have African ancestry.

I’m really not sure at this point. I think Taforalt as a whole might be some early branch off of the OOA group. It would make sense why it’s so damn hard to model with a good fit. It’s like MA1 in that regard.

[Zanzibar]

I’m really not sure at this point. I think Taforalt as a whole might be some early branch off of the OOA group. It would make sense why it’s so damn hard to model with a good fit. It’s like MA1 in that regard.

I guess we have to wait for more aDNA from Africa and Near East to answer this question regarding ANA.