What are the "German East" samples on G25 Vahaduo?

[Borealis]

It could be one of three different things:

1) People from modern east Germany
2) People from old Prussia(now Poland and Kalingrad)
3) East European Germans from Russia or Ukraine

Which is it?

[Peterski]

Samples from this dataset are from Leipzig, Saxony (part of modern east Germany):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leipzig

[Arūnas]

Leipzig - the center of Germany

[Borealis]

Samples from this dataset are from Leipzig, Saxony (part of modern east Germany):

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leipzig

Holy shit. And they are eastern shifted as f_ck. East Prussians must be mostly Baltic-Slavic in that case and Volga Germans overwhelmingly Slav.

[Jana]

Holy shit. And they are eastern shifted as f_ck. East Prussians must be mostly Baltic-Slavic in that case and Volga Germans overwhelmingly Slav.

Indian IQ. They aren't "eastern as fuck", they plot similar like Czechs with more Germanic input. Volga Germans are 0% eastern European, they are entirely of west German colonist origin.
Your knowledge about Europe is weak.

[Borealis]

Indian IQ. They aren't "eastern as fuck", they plot similar like Czechs with more Germanic input. Volga Germans are 0% eastern European, they are entirely of west German colonist origin.
Your knowledge about Europe is weak.

Subhuman IQ.

They are eastern shifted by the standards of GERMANIC speakers. Why the fuck would I compare them to Slavic speakers like Czechs? Yes the Czechs themselves have a lot of Germanic blood but they are still Slavic speakers.


Target: German_East
Distance: 1.0963% / 0.01096286
70.4 German
29.6 Belarusian

Target: Czech
Distance: 0.9275% / 0.00927468
62.0 German
38.0 Belarusian


Fact that they come out as 30% Belarusian says a lot.

As for Volga Germans...
https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/pfl3xi/volga_german_surprised_at_amount_of_nongerman_dna/

And keep in mind, that's based off modern populations. If you did a deeper analysis such as whats available with G25 they would be more than 50% Slavic for sure. Even the user Blondie said Volga Germans looked very Russian to her.

[Jana]

Subhuman IQ.

They are eastern shifted by the standards of GERMANIC speakers. Why the fuck would I compare them to Slavic speakers like Czechs?

Because they live right next to Czechs, idiot.


Fact that they come out as 30% Belarusian says a lot.

Eastern Germans are blend of German settlers and Wendish tribes, genius. You discovered America :laugh:


As for Volga Germans...
https://www.reddit.com/r/23andme/comments/pfl3xi/volga_german_surprised_at_amount_of_nongerman_dna/

That's a mongrel, not a Volga German. Pure Volga Germans have zero Slavic admixture, they originate from west and south Germany and did not mix with Russians.


And keep in mind, that's based off modern populations. If you did a deeper analysis such as whats available with G25 they would be more than 50% Slavic for sure.

Volga Germans are 0% EE. Mixed mongrels who stayed in RF are not "Volga Germans". They just claim to be so just like many Slavic Russians claim to be Jews to get Israeli citizenship.


Even the user Blondie said Volga Germans looked very Russian to her.

Because they are Soviet Era mixes, dumbass. Read what Rothaer wrote about Germans in eastern Europe. Real ones left for Germany decades ago.

[Borealis]

Because they live right next to Czechs, idiot.



Eastern Germans are blend of German settlers and Wendish tribes, genius. You discovered America :laugh:



That's a mongrel, not a Volga German. Pure Volga Germans have zero Slavic admixture, they originate from west and south Germany and did not mix with Russians.



Volga Germans are 0% EE. Mixed mongrels who stayed in RF are not "Volga Germans". They just claim to be so just like many Russians claim to be Jews to get Israeli citizenship.



Because they are Soviet Era mixes, dumbass. Read what Rothaer wrote about Germans in eastern Europe. Real ones left for Germany decades ago.


They live right next to Czechs and come out genetically much more like Czechs than they do to the majority of Germans, isn’t that very telling? Eastern shifted as fuck indeed. Now imagine those from pre war German east.

Even the German migrants who came to America in the last centuries from Volga, when they do a DNA test show plenty of Slavic ancestry. I want proof of these 100% Germanic Volga Germans

[Jana]

They live right next to Czechs and come out genetically much more like Czechs than they do to the majority of Germans, isn’t that very telling? Eastern shifted as fuck indeed. Now imagine those from pre war German east.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostsiedlung

Problem is everyone knows this and you make great discovery out of that. Yes, Prussians are heavily Slavic too, east Prussians heavily Baltic. Big surprise xD


Even the German migrants who came to America in the last centuries from Volga, when they do a DNA test show plenty of Slavic ancestry. I want proof of these 100% Germanic Volga Germans

No. Volga Germans have nothing to do with eastern Germans, same applies to Danube Swabians and Transylvanian Saxons. Those are west/south German colonists in the east, their ethnogenesis happened in west Germany and it did not include Slavs. They lived in closed off rural communities and did not mix with others, especially not with Slavs of orthodox faith like Russians.

Neither are they very Germanic. They are SOUTH-western Germans, similar to Swabians, Belgians, NE French and heavily Celtic. Only Menonnites are more Germanic because they are from further north, where low German is spoken.

Distance to: Menonnite_Russia

3.31072500 Dutch
3.44651998 German_Northwest
3.65231433 English_Southeast
3.84001302 Dutch_Central
3.92383741 North_German
4.05404736 English_Midlands
4.06294228 English
4.38486032 English_North
4.57801267 Cornish
4.58091694 English_Southwest
4.61123628 Dutch_North
4.65486842 Dutch_South
4.95530019 German_West
5.04638484 Welsh
5.20815706 Orcadian
5.22289192 Flemish
5.26143517 French_Northwest
5.27228603 Scottish_East
5.36900363 Scottish_Northeast
5.50253578 Scottish_North_Highlands
5.56982944 Scottish
5.76000868 Scottish_Gaidhealtachd
5.76035589 Scottish_Southwest
5.81072285 German
5.85683362 Icelandic

Distance to: Menonnite_Russia

3.41801112 English_Southeast
3.46538598 Dutch
3.57466082 Dutch_South
3.87778287 Flemish
3.94067253 German_Northwest
3.98347838 English_Midlands
4.10257236 Dutch_Central
4.10405897 English
4.29306417 German_West
4.63007559 Belgian
4.65716652 English_Southwest
4.72683827 Cornish
4.72958772 English_North
4.76758849 French_Northwest
4.83455272 North_German
4.83597974 Afrikaner
5.22651892 Dutch_North
5.35758341 German
5.57456725 Welsh
5.85293943 Orcadian
5.97292223 Scottish_East
6.06311801 Scottish_Northeast
6.26082263 Scottish_North_Highlands
6.37796206 Scottish
6.48822780 Scottish_Southwest

Distance to: Menonnite_Russia

1.99496867 North_German
3.15053964 German_Northwest
4.38270464 Dutch
4.67571385 Dutch_Central
4.98213810 Dutch_North
5.17239790 German
5.43030386 German_West
5.52345906 English_Southeast
5.91426242 English_Midlands
5.94951259 English
6.02376128 Denmark
6.10449015 Dutch_South
6.11571746 English_North
6.19279420 Icelandic
6.45441709 Norwegian
6.47201669 Sweden_Götaland
6.47607906 Flemish
6.53181445 Norway_South_Central
6.59884838 English_Southwest
6.62998492 Swedish
6.65099992 Cornish
6.72165902 Afrikaner
6.79650646 Orcadian
6.94314050 Welsh
6.95171921 Scottish_East

Target: Menonnite_Russia
Distance: 1.9025% / 1.90248230 | R2P

58.0 German_West
42.0 Norwegian

Target: Menonnite_Russia
Distance: 1.9138% / 1.91382998 | R2P

67.5 Flemish
32.5 Denmark

Target: Menonnite_Russia
Distance: 1.2272% / 1.22719454 | R2P

86.1 Norway_South_Central
13.9 Greek_Istanbul

[Jana]

here is sample that is closer to average for actual non mongrelized Volga German:

Distance to: German_Russia1

3.32021084 German_South
3.81821948 German_West
4.04217763 French_Alsace
4.14993976 Belgian
4.32477745 Afrikaner
4.62175291 Flemish
4.74934732 Pennsylvania_Dutch
4.78611534 German
4.97424366 French_Northeast
4.97899588 Swiss_German
5.17639836 Swiss_German2
5.40255495 Dutch_South
8.25181192 English_Southeast
8.27499245 French_Northwest
8.35992225 Austrian
8.70927666 Swiss_French
8.73249678 French_Central
8.84587474 Dutch
8.91983744 German_Northwest
8.94195169 North_German
9.07058433 English_Midlands
9.19661351 English
9.47139377 Dutch_Central
9.56300162 English_Southwest
9.74469086 Cornish

Target: German_Russia1
Distance: 1.9911% / 1.99109521 | R2P

66.0 North_German
34.0 Swiss_Italian

[cakmir7y]

Subhuman IQ.

... Czechs themselves have a lot of Germanic blood but they are still Slavic speakers.

Target: German_East
Distance: 1.0963% / 0.01096286
70.4 German
29.6 Belarusian

Target: Czech
Distance: 0.9275% / 0.00927468
62.0 German
38.0 Belarusian



What model did you use to obtain this result? I'd be intrigued to know what percentage of German input i'd get out of it.
The model basically says that the czech is mixture of two thirds of germanic and one third of slavic which is not what
I am getting from any model i've tried so far.

[Jana]

double

[Jana]

What model did you use to obtain this result? I'd be intrigued to know what percentage of German input i'd get out of it.
The model basically says that the czech is mixture of two thirds of germanic and one third of slavic which is not what
I am getting from any model i've tried so far.

His model isn't good because German average he is using includes some east German samples.
G25 modern averages are terrible, no idea why anyone is using them. Czech average is heavily German shifted too (probably from Prague)

Updated K13 is million light years ahead when it comes to moderns.

[Leto]

Since the late 1980s over 2 million people have left Russia, Kazakhstan and to a lesser extent Ukraine for Germany. They accept mixed people and their families. So a half German guy with a Tatar wife will get German citizenship for himself and his family upon arrival. I think earlier waves were purer while the most recent ones are super mixed, sometimes even with non-European elements. But the origin of the Volga Germans is mostly Southwestern German. Think Baden-Württemberg or something like that. They were invited to settle in the lower Volga region by Catherine the Great in the 1760s and deported by Stalin to Kazakhstan in 1941. There were also Germans in Siberia (Omsk) and Southern Russia. Some still remain but heavily assimilated. I've seen quite a few Gedmatch results of partial Germans.

[Borealis]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostsiedlung

Problem is everyone knows this and you make great discovery out of that. Yes, Prussians are heavily Slavic too, east Prussians heavily Baltic. Big surprise xD



No. Volga Germans have nothing to do with eastern Germans, same applies to Danube Swabians and Transylvanian Saxons. Those are west/south German colonists in the east, their ethnogenesis happened in west Germany and it did not include Slavs. They lived in closed off rural communities and did not mix with others, especially not with Slavs of orthodox faith like Russians.

Neither are they very Germanic. They are SOUTH-western Germans, similar to Swabians, Belgians, NE French and heavily Celtic. Only Menonnites are more Germanic because they are from further north, where low German is spoken.

Distance to: Menonnite_Russia

3.31072500 Dutch
3.44651998 German_Northwest
3.65231433 English_Southeast
3.84001302 Dutch_Central
3.92383741 North_German
4.05404736 English_Midlands
4.06294228 English
4.38486032 English_North
4.57801267 Cornish
4.58091694 English_Southwest
4.61123628 Dutch_North
4.65486842 Dutch_South
4.95530019 German_West
5.04638484 Welsh
5.20815706 Orcadian
5.22289192 Flemish
5.26143517 French_Northwest
5.27228603 Scottish_East
5.36900363 Scottish_Northeast
5.50253578 Scottish_North_Highlands
5.56982944 Scottish
5.76000868 Scottish_Gaidhealtachd
5.76035589 Scottish_Southwest
5.81072285 German
5.85683362 Icelandic

Distance to: Menonnite_Russia

3.41801112 English_Southeast
3.46538598 Dutch
3.57466082 Dutch_South
3.87778287 Flemish
3.94067253 German_Northwest
3.98347838 English_Midlands
4.10257236 Dutch_Central
4.10405897 English
4.29306417 German_West
4.63007559 Belgian
4.65716652 English_Southwest
4.72683827 Cornish
4.72958772 English_North
4.76758849 French_Northwest
4.83455272 North_German
4.83597974 Afrikaner
5.22651892 Dutch_North
5.35758341 German
5.57456725 Welsh
5.85293943 Orcadian
5.97292223 Scottish_East
6.06311801 Scottish_Northeast
6.26082263 Scottish_North_Highlands
6.37796206 Scottish
6.48822780 Scottish_Southwest

Distance to: Menonnite_Russia

1.99496867 North_German
3.15053964 German_Northwest
4.38270464 Dutch
4.67571385 Dutch_Central
4.98213810 Dutch_North
5.17239790 German
5.43030386 German_West
5.52345906 English_Southeast
5.91426242 English_Midlands
5.94951259 English
6.02376128 Denmark
6.10449015 Dutch_South
6.11571746 English_North
6.19279420 Icelandic
6.45441709 Norwegian
6.47201669 Sweden_Götaland
6.47607906 Flemish
6.53181445 Norway_South_Central
6.59884838 English_Southwest
6.62998492 Swedish
6.65099992 Cornish
6.72165902 Afrikaner
6.79650646 Orcadian
6.94314050 Welsh
6.95171921 Scottish_East

Target: Menonnite_Russia
Distance: 1.9025% / 1.90248230 | R2P

58.0 German_West
42.0 Norwegian

Target: Menonnite_Russia
Distance: 1.9138% / 1.91382998 | R2P

67.5 Flemish
32.5 Denmark

Target: Menonnite_Russia
Distance: 1.2272% / 1.22719454 | R2P

86.1 Norway_South_Central
13.9 Greek_Istanbul

For the Mennonites, no shock because they are a very insular community. And in fact I wouldn’t be surprised if most Volgas that moved out of the USSR/Russian empire a century ago are mostly pure. But they are not the only Volga Germans, those who remained in Russia and former USSR countries are still the great majority of Volga Germans. So the ones in the pics people point out may actually be closer to the norm.

[Borealis]

His model isn't good because German average he is using includes some east German samples.
G25 modern averages are terrible, no idea why anyone is using them. Czech average is heavily German shifted too (probably from Prague)

Updated K13 is million light years ahead when it comes to moderns.

If there are East Germans included in the German sample then all that would mean is that if a group like Alsatians or Dutch or west Germans were used instead, the Slavic component would only increase.

[Jana]

If there are East Germans included in the German sample then all that would mean is that if a group like Alsatians or Dutch or west Germans were used instead, the Slavic component would only increase.

And it should. Czechs aren't such low Slavic.

[Jana]

For the Mennonites, no shock because they are a very insular community. And in fact I wouldn’t be surprised if most Volgas that moved out of the USSR/Russian empire a century ago are mostly pure. But they are not the only Volga Germans, those who remained in Russia and former USSR countries are still the great majority of Volga Germans. So the ones in the pics people point out may actually be closer to the norm.

East European admixture in some Volga German means they recently mixed with non Germans. While in east Germans it is not, it is part of their native German DNA, from ethnogenesis in medieval times. That's the difference.

[Leto]

Maybe there were some more Eastern Germans in Russia too, who the fuck knows. At this point it's pretty much irrelevant, even more so than internal differences within Germany itself where millions of Eastern Germans had to be resettled in West Germany after WW2. And on top of that after the fall of the Berlin Wall hundreds of thousands of Eastern Germans migrated westwards in search for better opportunities.
I'm fucking stuck with very poor internet connection this month, I have some Gedmatch results, two very different Germans.

[Borealis]

East European admixture in some Volga German means they recently mixed with non Germans. While in east Germans it is not, it is part of their native German DNA, from ethnogenesis in medieval times. That's the difference.

I know about East Germans/Prussians. I assumed it was similar for Volgas based off the results I saw

[Borealis]

East European admixture in some Volga German means they recently mixed with non Germans. While in east Germans it is not, it is part of their native German DNA, from ethnogenesis in medieval times. That's the difference.

I know about East Germans/Prussians. I assumed it was similar for Volgas based off the results I saw

[Borealis]

So Leipzigers are literally more eastern shifted than Austrians, literally the people of the "Eastern realm" or Osterreich.

Target: Austrian
Distance: 0.7588% / 0.00758811
73.0 French_Alsace
27.0 Russian_Kursk

Target: German_East
Distance: 1.5210% / 0.01520983
40.6 Russian_Kursk
39.8 French_Alsace
19.6 Dutch

Well well well...

[Dunai]

His model isn't good because German average he is using includes some east German samples.
G25 modern averages are terrible, no idea why anyone is using them. Czech average is heavily German shifted too (probably from Prague)

Updated K13 is million light years ahead when it comes to moderns.

I agree with this: G25 is the best calculator for ancient ancestry (their modern populations are little off) and K13 Updated for modern ancestry, since they were more carefully curated.

[Dunai]

So Leipzigers are literally more eastern shifted than Austrians, literally the people of the "Eastern realm" or Osterreich.

Target: Austrian
Distance: 0.7588% / 0.00758811
73.0 French_Alsace
27.0 Russian_Kursk

Target: German_East
Distance: 1.5210% / 0.01520983
40.6 Russian_Kursk
39.8 French_Alsace
19.6 Dutch

Well well well...

According to K13 Updated East Germans are really East-Central European shifted, while Austrians are somewhat different, but they also have strong East-Central European admixture, while both are notable outliers among the German-speaking world:

Target: German_East
Distance: 0.8006% / 0.80060763 | ADC: 0.25x RC
68.9 Czech
16.2 Sweden_Svealand_East
9.2 Austrian
5.7 French_Basque

Target: Austrian
Distance: 0.9050% / 0.90497091 | ADC: 0.25x RC
42.0 German_East
32.9 French_Alsace
20.1 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
3.5 German
1.5 Avar

[Jana]

So Leipzigers are literally more eastern shifted than Austrians, literally the people of the "Eastern realm" or Osterreich.

Target: Austrian
Distance: 0.7588% / 0.00758811
73.0 French_Alsace
27.0 Russian_Kursk

Target: German_East
Distance: 1.5210% / 0.01520983
40.6 Russian_Kursk
39.8 French_Alsace
19.6 Dutch

Well well well...

Doesn't mean anything, Austrian average is academic and mix of all regions. There are southern Austrians who are more Slavic than east Germans from Leipzig (Noricum for example).
You were already told not to use G25 for moderns. Neither is Austrian average very useful (some Austrians plot like Bavarians and Swiss, while some are heavily Slavic), neither is this German Leipzig average that useful either.

East Germans have way more genetic diversity than that and important thing to mention is that Leipzig average has significant southern (Celtic) pull, something many regions further north lack.

[Jana]

Yeah, according to K13 Updated East Germans are really East-Central European shifted, while Austrians are somewhat different, but they also have strong East-Central European admixture, while both are notable outliers among the German-speaking world:

Target: German_East
Distance: 0.8006% / 0.80060763 | ADC: 0.25x RC
68.9 Czech
16.2 Sweden_Svealand_East
9.2 Austrian
5.7 French_Basque

Target: Austrian
Distance: 0.9050% / 0.90497091 | ADC: 0.25x RC
42.0 German_East
32.9 French_Alsace
20.1 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
3.5 German
1.5 Avar

These are same academic averages, they are poor. Soon we will have German regional averages. "East Germans" are very diverse. People from Mecklenburg can be 70% proto Germanic and more Germanic than vast majority of west Germans/Belgians/English/south Dutch, they are east Germans too. Some East Prussians can be Lithuanian like. Those from Saxony are three way mix of Celts, Germanics and Slavs. Etc.

[Dunai]

These are same academic averages, they are poor. Soon we will have German regional averages. "East Germans" are very diverse. People from Mecklenburg can be 70% proto Germanic and more Germanic than vast majority of west Germans/Belgians/English/south Dutch, they are east Germans too. Some East Prussians can be Lithuanian like. Those from Saxony are three way mix of Celts, Germanics and Slavs. Etc.

I definitely really anticipating these new German averages. I had a feeling these two averages aren't on the same level with other averages on K13, but since we have no others, that's why I use them. I have a feeling there are regional differences even among Austrians, just like among Hungarians or any other nationalities between 5-10 million people.

[Jana]

I definitely really anticipating these new German averages. I had a feeling these two averages aren't on the same level with other averages on K13, but since we have no others, that's why I use them. I have a feeling there are regional differences even among Austrians, just like among Hungarians or any other nationalities between 5-10 million people.

Coming soon :thumbsup:

[Peterski]

Some East Prussians can be Lithuanian like.

They are probably not ethnic Germans but these people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_Lithuanians


Soon we will have German regional averages.

Is there an upcoming study? Or non-academic samples?

[Jana]

^^^^non academic samples with 4/4 grandparents of the same region.

[Dunai]

^^^^non academic samples with 4/4 grandparents od the same region.

Do you have a thread in which others could contribute with their proposals or do you already have plenty of samples?

[Jana]

Do you have a thread in which others could contribute with their proposals or do you already have plenty of samples?

Still in sample collecting phase, new samples are absolutely welcome and needed!
please post anything here, but it will be included only if regional ancestry on grandparents level is known

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?283733-German-GEDmatch-results/page23

[Peterski]

^^^^non academic samples with 4/4 grandparents of the same region.

Who is collecting them?

BTW, German user Simon_W from AG has a grandmother with 4/4 grandparents from East Prussia (precisely - Kreis Braunsberg / Braniewo County), and she scores similar as Rothaer's wife (who is from Schwerin area - Western Mecklenburg). Around 2/3 proto Germanic + 1/3 Balto-Slavic.

[Jana]

Who is collecting them?

Rothaer and me.


BTW, German user Simon_W from AG has a grandmother with 4/4 grandparents from East Prussia (precisely - Kreis Braunsberg / Braniewo County), and she scores similar as Rothaer's wife (who is from Schwerin area - Western Mecklenburg). Around 2/3 proto Germanic + 1/3 Balto-Slavic.

Post her K13 please. I don't think we have her.

[Peterski]

Rothaer and me.



Post her K13 please. I don't think we have her.

Her, it is grandmother of Simon_W.

I will post it later today (afternoon).

[Jana]

Her, it is grandmother of Simon_W.

I will post it later today (afternoon).

Thank you. Very useful sample.

[Peterski]

Very useful sample.

Yes, Braunsberg was outside of ethnic Polish/Masurian settlement area and also outside of ethnic Lithuanian settlement area, so probably all (or nearly all) of her 1/3 Balto-Slavic is Old Prussian DNA.

[Peterski]

Rothaer and me.

Do you have any from West Prussia, Provinz Posen, Upper Silesia?

[Jana]

Do you have any from West Prussia
Yes.


Provinz Posen
Not sure. I think no. You should ask Rothaer.


Upper Silesia?
Yes.

If you have any to be added, just post them in German gedmatch results thread, so I can check do we have them or not.

[Peterski]

Yes.


Not sure. I think no. You should ask Rothaer.


Yes.

If you have any to be added, just post them in German gedmatch results thread, so I can check do we have them or not.

From which counties / Kreise of West Prussia and Upper Silesia?

Okay, I will post.

Now I'm on my phone, I will be back home later today.

[Jana]

From which counties / Kreise of West Prussia and Upper Silesia?

Okay, I will post.

Now I'm on my phone, I will be back home later today.

Cool, thank you. From west Prussia Gdansk and surrounding, some Pommeranians too as far as I remember. From upper Silesia is only one sample, Rothaer will know more in details about it's more precise origins :)

[Peterski]

From upper Silesia is only one sample, Rothaer will know more in details about it's more precise origins :)

Oh, then I am a bit disappointed because this is probably the same sample which I already discussed with him - and that was not an ethnic German but rather a very recently Germanized "Wasserpolack" (and he scores 93% Eastern European in 23andMe). IMO you should not include such people in your German averages, because they are not really Germans in an ethnic sense.

I will later post ethno-linguistic data for Upper Silesia as of year 1834 - with a breakdown by county / Kreis.

If you find a kit of an Upper Silesian who had German-speaking ancestors as of 1834, that would be cool.

[Jana]

Oh, then I am a bit disappointed because this is probably the same sample which I already discussed with him - and that was not an ethnic German but rather a very recently Germanized "Wasserpolack" (and he scores 93% Eastern European in 23andMe). IMO you should not include such people in your German averages, because they are not really Germans in an ethnic sense.

I will later post ethno-linguistic data for Upper Silesia as of year 1834 - with a breakdown by county / Kreis.

If you find a kit of an Upper Silesian who had German-speaking ancestors as of 1834, that would be cool.

Yeah, I think it is same sample. From what I understand results are his are more like norm for upper Silesia than outlier, because they aren't really German in ethnic sense as you say.
Lower Silesia different.

[Peterski]

From what I understand results are his are more like norm for upper Silesia than outlier, because they aren't really German in ethnic sense as you say.

There are Polish Upper Silesians and there are German Upper Silesians. And they should be different genetically, most probably. I can give you Polish Upper Silesian results.


Lower Silesia different.

In Lower Silesia it is a similar situation, there are German Lower Silesians and there are Polish Lower Silesians. But in this case only remnants of Polish Lower Silesians survived until the 20th century. In year 1819 Breslau Regency was 90% German + 10% Polish according to official Prussian data (it could be that they undercounted Poles).

As for German Lower Silesians, they should be less Slavic in areas near the Sudeten Mountains, and more Slavic in areas to the east and northeast of the Oder River.

[Jana]

There are Polish Upper Silesians and there are German Upper Silesians. And they should be different genetically, most probably. I can give you Polish Upper Silesian results.

Person you are discussing is German nationalist from Upper Silesia iirc. Not declared Pole, despite his results. This case reminds me of Italians from Istria.
Didn't large amount of Poles in upper Silesia germanised rather late and later even rejected to be part of Poland? I think he descend from such population.

There are probably genuine Germans in upper Silesia I guess, but from what I gather most of them are like him, recently Germanised Poles. Yes, feel free to share Polish upper Silesians.


In Lower Silesia it is a similar situation, there are German Lower Silesians and there are Polish Lower Silesians. But in this case only remnants of Polish Lower Silesians survived until the 20th century. In year 1819 Breslau Regency was 90% German + 10% Polish according to official Prussian data (it could be that they undercounted Poles).

As for German Lower Silesians, they should be less Slavic in areas near the Sudeten Mountains, and more Slavic in areas to the east and northeast of the Oder River.

Interesting. But I think lower Silesia had much more of genuine ethnic Germans than upper one, did it not?

[Borealis]

Shocked that there are already not German averages from various regions. Likewise we could do with some east and west Austrian samples too.

[Jana]

Shocked that there are already not German averages from various regions.

There are, they are just very broad. Learn to use Vahaduo before shitposting.

K13:

German,43.00,27.31,13.88,5.81,6.40,0.94,0.94,0.15, 0.34,0.46,0.36,0.15,0.13
German_East,37.14,34.35,13.58,5.86,5.61,0.87,1.08, 0.06,0.25,0.58,0.30,0.14,0.17
German_Northwest,48.15,27.06,11.62,5.35,3.94,0.84, 1.28,0.13,0.43,0.44,0.40,0.15,0.14
German_South,41.78,22.89,16.36,6.24,9.41,1.09,0.52 ,0.25,0.31,0.42,0.38,0.18,0.11
German_West,44.26,23.82,14.00,6.94,7.16,0.86,0.62, 0.36,0.40,0.49,0.38,0.41,0.18

https://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k13-vahaduo.htm

[Borealis]

There are, they are just very broad. Learn to use Vahaduo before shitposting.

K13:

German,43.00,27.31,13.88,5.81,6.40,0.94,0.94,0.15, 0.34,0.46,0.36,0.15,0.13
German_East,37.14,34.35,13.58,5.86,5.61,0.87,1.08, 0.06,0.25,0.58,0.30,0.14,0.17
German_Northwest,48.15,27.06,11.62,5.35,3.94,0.84, 1.28,0.13,0.43,0.44,0.40,0.15,0.14
German_South,41.78,22.89,16.36,6.24,9.41,1.09,0.52 ,0.25,0.31,0.42,0.38,0.18,0.11
German_West,44.26,23.82,14.00,6.94,7.16,0.86,0.62, 0.36,0.40,0.49,0.38,0.41,0.18

https://vahaduo.genetics.ovh/k13-vahaduo.htm


I’m talking about G25 u daft fuck

[Jana]

I’m talking about G25 u daft fuck

You are incredibly annoying, brown ape.

[Borealis]

You are incredibly annoying, brown ape.

Same for 10 fold.

Untermensch

[Jana]

--

[Peterski]

There are probably genuine Germans in upper Silesia I guess

Yes and they were even the majority of inhabitants in several (around five) Counties/Kreise. For example according to 1834 census:

County - percent of Germans

Neisse - 99.9%
Grottkau - 99.9%
Leobschütz - 93.1%
Falkenberg - 78.7%
Neustadt an der Prudnik - 49.9%
Cosel - 28.6%
Kreuzburg - 26.1%
Oppeln - 21.9%
Ratibor - 13.0%
Tost-Gleiwitz - 10.9%
Rybnik - 9.0%
Rosenberg - 8.0%
Groß Strehlitz - 7.8%
Lublinitz - 7.0%
Pless - 6.9%
Beuthen - 5.3%

Source (proportion of Polish and German population by county):

D. = Germans
P. = Poles

https://i.imgur.com/cExEpbm.png

https://i.imgur.com/cExEpbm.png


Interesting. But I think lower Silesia had much more of genuine ethnic Germans than upper one, did it not?

Depends in which sub-region (that's why I suggest you should sub-divide Lower Silesia, if you have enough samples). As I wrote above probably the mountainous part (near the Sudeten Mountains) is the least Slavic. And parts of Lower Silesia on the right bank of the Oder River (between the Oder and Poland) are the most Slavic.

Barthel Stein in his description of Silesia published in 1513 ([I]"Descriptio Tocius Silesie et Civitatis Regie Vratislaviensis") wrote:

"(...) Zwei Volksstämme, die sich nicht nur nach ihren Wohnsitzen, sondern auch nach ihren Sitten scheiden, bewohnen es; den nach Westen und Süden gelegenen Theil nehmen die Deutschen ein, den Theil nach Osten und Norden zu die Polenö beide trennt als eine ganz sichere Grenze die Oder von der Neißemündung ab, sodaß auch in den Städten diesseits die deutsche, jenseits die polnische Sprach vorherrscht. Man erkennt zwischen beiden Völkern einen starken Gegensatz. (...)"

=====

And according to R. Böckh (the same one who published that data for Upper Silesia which I posted above) in year 1869 there were still 448 Polish-majority settlements (Ortschaften), villages and towns, in Lower Silesia. Mainly in the north-eastern corner of Lower Silesia.

Böckh called the area of Lower Silesia where Polish-speakers were the majority "das polnische Nieder-Schlesien".

Part (but not all) of this territory was actually added to Poland in 1919 after the Treaty of Versaiilles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Former_eastern_territories_of_Germany#Division_of_ Germany's_eastern_provinces_after_1918

[Peterski]

Person you are discussing is German nationalist from Upper Silesia iirc.

Genetically he is Polish, doesn't matter what he feels - if I give you e.g. Władysław Anders DNA sample (his parents - Albert Anders & Elisabeth Tauchert - were Baltic Germans) to represent ethnic Poles, will you accept? Definitely a Polish nationalist, but autosomally he was probably fully Baltic German.

There can even be Turks who are German nationalists, as Germany has a huge Turkish population.


This case reminds me of Italians from Istria.

Are Italians from Istria genetically Slavic? Seriously? Where is evidence?


Didn't large amount of Poles in upper Silesia germanised rather late?

The family we're talking about probably stayed in Poland after 1945 (which required being verified as Polish - and that was not so easy, there had to be efforts made by them, they had to apply for verification of their Polishness, etc.) and became Germanized only after emigrating to Germany decades later.

Rothaer might ask him if his family could even speak German before moving to Germany.

Or did they learn German language only after moving from Poland to Germany?


Not declared Pole, despite his results.

If his family stayed in Poland after 1945 (rather than being deported to Germany) it means they declared themselves as Poles and it was verified.

It required some effort and a will to be recognized as Polish on their part.

And why they later changed their mind and emigrated to Germany - probably because Poland became dirt poor after decades of Communist rule.

Most of the "Spätaussiedler" are economic opportunists.

[Jana]

Are Italians from Istria genetically Slavic? Seriously? Where is evidence?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidia_Bastianich

Although she and her family are nationally Italian, public DNA tests conducted by Lidia have shown that her family is largely of Eastern European descent, due to the multiethnicity of Istria

A DNA test whose results were displayed on the show Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (2016) stated that Joe’s mother’s genetic ancestry is:

*63% Eastern Europe
*28% Italy & Greece
*6% Europe West
*3% Trace Region

[Peterski]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidia_Bastianich

Although she and her family are nationally Italian, public DNA tests conducted by Lidia have shown that her family is largely of Eastern European descent, due to the multiethnicity of Istria

A DNA test whose results were displayed on the show Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (2016) stated that Joe’s mother’s genetic ancestry is:

*63% Eastern Europe
*28% Italy & Greece
*6% Europe West
*3% Trace Region

Very interesting, but this is just one sample, maybe others are different?

[Luke35]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lidia_Bastianich

Although she and her family are nationally Italian, public DNA tests conducted by Lidia have shown that her family is largely of Eastern European descent, due to the multiethnicity of Istria

A DNA test whose results were displayed on the show Finding Your Roots with Henry Louis Gates, Jr. (2016) stated that Joe’s mother’s genetic ancestry is:

*63% Eastern Europe
*28% Italy & Greece
*6% Europe West
*3% Trace Region

Sort of related, don't mean to shift the thread, but I found this interesting..

Micky Dolenz's (of The Monkees fame) father, born Jure Dolenc, came from Trieste. I read on Wiki that he was from an ethnic Slovene community. However, in a recent interview Micky referred to his father's side of the family as Italians. I would guess his Trieste side has notable Slavic admix, in spite being "Italian".

[Jana]

Very interesting, but this is just one sample, maybe others are different?

Where are your promised samples? Not the first time you don't keep your word.


Sort of related, don't mean to shift the thread, but I found this interesting..

Micky Dolenz's (of The Monkees fame) father, born Jure Dolenc, came from Trieste. I read on Wiki that he was from an ethnic Slovene community. However, in a recent interview Micky referred to his father's side of the family as Italians. I would guess his Trieste side has notable Slavic admix, in spite being "Italian".

Dolec is purely Slovene family name, and Jure purely Slovene first name. Looks like italianized Slovenian.

[Jana]

Her, it is grandmother of Simon_W.

I will post it later today (afternoon).


From which counties / Kreise of West Prussia and Upper Silesia?

Okay, I will post.

Now I'm on my phone, I will be back home later today.

yes, you will....

[Peterski]

Where are your promised samples?

GEDmatch stopped working, when I try to check kits in calculators, I get:

"AJAX error: Internal Server ErrorText Status: error Response Text: An internal server error occurred. Please try again later."

[Jana]

GEDmatch stopped working, when I try to check kits in calculators, I get:

"AJAX error: Internal Server ErrorText Status: error Response Text: An internal server error occurred. Please try again later."

You promised to post two days ago, and gedmatch worked perfectly than.

[rothaer]

GEDmatch stopped working, when I try to check kits in calculators, I get:

"AJAX error: Internal Server ErrorText Status: error Response Text: An internal server error occurred. Please try again later."

Why don't you just tell Stearsolina the GEDmatch number(s)?

You got the 4 new ones from me gladly, immediately and without any begging.

[Roy]

Are there East Germans who score Polish before West German on gedmatch?

[Roy]

Person you are discussing is German nationalist from Upper Silesia iirc. Not declared Pole, despite his results. This case reminds me of Italians from Istria.
Didn't large amount of Poles in upper Silesia germanised rather late and later even rejected to be part of Poland? I think he descend from such population.

There are probably genuine Germans in upper Silesia I guess, but from what I gather most of them are like him, recently Germanised Poles. Yes, feel free to share Polish upper Silesians.



Interesting. But I think lower Silesia had much more of genuine ethnic Germans than upper one, did it not?

There are Polish Silesians in Lubliniec town who asked what they're will tell you they're German (often as a way of bantering) but it is not true. :D

[Borealis]

Delete

[rothaer]

Are there East Germans who score Polish before West German on gedmatch?

Yes, for sure.

But: This is a typical LM Genetics similarity map for an average Eastern German. I can from my experience confirm that this is a pattern that often repeats for Eastern Germans. You can compare how close they are to Western German and Polish regions respectively. You can conclude that they in general - there are exceptions - are a little bit closer to Western Germans than to Poles. And they are closer to Hungarians than to Western Germans. And regularly even closer to Czechs.

https://i.imgur.com/wMfzBBv.jpg

[rothaer]

(...) But I think lower Silesia had much more of genuine ethnic Germans than upper one, did it not?

Yes, these two parts are not even comparable. Here's a map with the language conditions in 1905/1906. I marked the border of Upper and Lower Silesia with light green. Lower Silesia is essentially fully German (precautionary: Tomenable, we see the few Poles, don't worry :) ) and Upper Silesia is in vast majority Polish, but has some old and full German parts in the west.

https://i.imgur.com/ZoznBM2.jpg

[Peterski]

and Upper Silesia is in vast majority Polish, but has some old and full German parts in the west.

You didn't notice Kattowitz, Konigshutte, Beuthen etc. being majority German? Do you think they were Germanized Poles?

This is the so-called industrial district of Upper Silesia. It didn't exist in early 1800s, it was built during the 19th century.

In the Industrial District area (Beuthen, Tarnowitz, Kattowitz, Zabrze, Königshütte) it changed like this:

1831:

Total population ---- 44624
Polish --------------- 42324 (94.8%)
German ------------- 2300

1910:

Total population ---- 770040
Polish --------------- 449887 (58.4%)
German ------------- 327153

IMO this increase of Germans was caused mainly by immigration of Germans from other areas (also from Lower Silesia and beyond).


Here's a map with the language conditions in 1905/1906.

I prefer to look at older census data (which is available, even by county) because it correlates better with genetics.

I mean language conditions in early 1800s correlate better with genetics, than language conditions in early 1900s.

=====

Richard Böckh in "Der Deutschen Volkszahl und Sprachgebiet" (1869 book) says that in Upper Silesia there was a German-majority area with 233 settlements and 68,200 inhabitants (of whom 65,000 Germans) and a Polish-majority area with 2795 settlements and 782,000 inhabitants (of whom 136,500 Germans) - the number of German-majority settlements in this part was 286 with 107,400 inhabitants (of whom 70,200 Germans).

For Teschen Silesia he gives 163,300 inhabitants including 19,500 Germans.

In Lower Silesia according to Böckh there were 448 settlements with Polish majority with 91,200 inhabitants (80,000 Poles). In total there were 86,400 Poles in Lower Silesia. There was a Polish-majority region with 514 settlements and 103,200 inhabitants (24,100 Germans and 79,100 Poles):

https://i.imgur.com/PK5V0gx.png

=====

In 1813 Robert Semple mentioned the - still Polish-speaking at that time - areas near Leuthen, Gross Gohlau and Breslau:

https://i.imgur.com/C84AKXZ.png

[rothaer]

You didn't notice Kattowitz, Konigshutte, Beuthen etc. being majority German? Do you think they were Germanized Poles?

This is the so-called industrial district of Upper Silesia. It didn't exist in early 1800s, it was built during the 19th century.

In the Industrial District area (Beuthen, Tarnowitz, Kattowitz, Zabrze, Königshütte) it changed like this:

1831:

Total population ---- 44624
Polish --------------- 42324 (94.8%)
German ------------- 2300

1910:

Total population ---- 770040
Polish --------------- 449887 (58.4%)
German ------------- 327153

IMO this increase of Germans was caused mainly by immigration of Germans from other areas (also from Lower Silesia and beyond).



I prefer to look at older census data (which is available, even by county) because it correlates better with genetics.

I mean language conditions in early 1800s correlate better with genetics, than language conditions in early 1900s.

=====

Richard Böckh in "Der Deutschen Volkszahl und Sprachgebiet" (1869 book) says that in Upper Silesia there was a German-majority area with 233 settlements and 68,200 inhabitants (of whom 65,000 Germans) and a Polish-majority area with 2795 settlements and 782,000 inhabitants (of whom 136,500 Germans) - the number of German-majority settlements in this part was 286 with 107,400 inhabitants (of whom 70,200 Germans).

For Teschen Silesia he gives 163,300 inhabitants including 19,500 Germans.

In Lower Silesia according to Böckh there were 448 settlements with Polish majority with 91,200 inhabitants (80,000 Poles). In total there were 86,400 Poles in Lower Silesia. There was a Polish-majority region with 514 settlements and 103,200 inhabitants (24,100 Germans and 79,100 Poles):

https://i.imgur.com/PK5V0gx.png

=====

In 1813 Robert Semple mentioned the - still Polish-speaking at that time - areas near Leuthen, Gross Gohlau and Breslau:

https://i.imgur.com/C84AKXZ.png

Do you think this is relevant for the plot of what I stated, i. e. Lower Silesia being essentially German and Upper Silesia being in vast majority Polish?

[Peterski]

Do you think this is relevant for the plot of what I stated, i. e. Lower Silesia being essentially German and Upper Silesia being in vast majority Polish?

What I'm trying to say is that Germans from Upper Silesia probably do have genuine Germanic admixture, as long as they are Germans.

And I think you are trying to dismiss the double-digit % German population in Upper Silesia only to legitimize the "Schlonzak" nationalist's claim that he is a German from Upper Silesia (while in fact he is rather not, and genuine Germans from Upper Silesia will likely have much more Celto-Germanic results).

All Prussian censuses between 1819 and 1910 show that Germans were between 30% and 40% of the population of Upper Silesia.

Conversely, Regierungsbezirk Breslau had around 10% non-German minority in 1819, and if we go back to 1740 it was even more.

And I'm quite sure that non-Germans in Lower Silesia were genetically different than local Germans. And the same in Upper Silesia.

I mean, ignoring 30% or more of Germans in Upper Silesia and 10% or more of non-Germans in Middle Silesia is not a good idea.

[Peterski]

You promised to post two days ago, and gedmatch worked perfectly than.

I promised then but I didn't say that I was going to send the results immediately.

Here you have Lower Silesians from Brieg (Brzeg) area, family name is Deutscher:


German_Lower_Silesia_Brieg1,35.75,35.19,15.01,4.06 ,7.38,0,0.07,0,1.81,0.61,0.13,0,0
German_Lower_Silesia_Brieg2,34.56,36.20,12.94,6.92 ,6.54,0,0.63,0,0.34,0.85,0.33,0.43,0.26


<tbody>
Distance to:
German_Lower_Silesia_Brieg1


3.91765236
German_East


4.74558742
Czech


5.81134236
Slovenian


6.44719319
Slovak


6.82303452
Hungarian_North


6.87755771
Austrian

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
German_Lower_Silesia_Brieg2


2.18130695
Czech


3.68972899
German_East


4.36009174
Slovak


5.16104641
Slovenian


5.80972461
Hungarian_North


6.20225765
Sorb

</tbody>

And here is that German from Braniewo (Braunsberg) area that I also promised:


German_East_Prussia_Braunsberg1,46.40,36.05,9.33,1 .39,2.77,2.18,0,0.12,0.19,0.31,0.99,0.18,0.09


<tbody>
Distance to:
German_East_Prussia_Braunsberg1


4.39931813
Swedish_East-Svealand


6.30049998
Swedish


7.18829604
Swedish_Norrland


7.37330319
Swedish_West-Svealand


8.86276481
Swedish_Götaland


9.26909920
Norwegian_Southcentral

</tbody>

Will add some more when GEDmatch starts working again.

[Jana]

Posting after regional averages were released? You can go f***k yourself, your "help" isn't needed. Bye.

[Peterski]

You didn't release averages for Lower Silesia & East Prussia (except fringe areas Memelland & Masuria, both of which were not even inhabited by ethnic Germans).

[Peterski]

How about adding also German_Jewish population average ???

These are the same samples that were used in Global25 to make Ashkenazi_Germany population:

(DE_DE are fully from Germany; AT_DE is half Austria half Germany)


Ashk_DE_DE_1,13.60,4.84,18.39,11.37,39.60,8.46,0,1 .03,0,0,1.21,1.51,0
Ashk_DE_DE_10,19.13,4.96,18.59,7.48,40.41,5.07,0,1 .63,0.39,0.40,0.65,1.20,0.09
Ashk_DE_DE_11,14.04,4.99,20.93,7.86,40.54,7.73,0,0 .89,0.86,0.21,1.00,0.53,0.43
Ashk_DE_DE_2,18.24,6.97,16.23,9.17,39.91,6.66,0.43 ,0,0.65,0.39,0,0,1.34
Ashk_DE_DE_3,13.00,7.12,19.95,10.65,39.96,6.52,0.4 1,0.02,0,0,0.43,0.65,1.28
Ashk_DE_DE_4,15.56,5.59,18.75,10.46,40.64,5.65,1.5 5,0,0,0,0.79,1.01,0
Ashk_DE_DE_5,15.90,7.03,19.87,10.14,36.50,6.28,0,1 .40,0.33,0.89,0,1.04,0.62
Ashk_DE_DE_6,15.94,4.42,20.12,11.93,37.59,5.59,0,0 .56,0,0.86,0.58,0.60,1.79
Ashk_DE_DE_7,19.85,4.13,19.97,6.60,39.65,6.78,0,0. 82,0,0.49,0,1.14,0.56
Ashk_DE_DE_8,13.12,8.62,20.14,9.10,39.80,5.52,0.24 ,1.35,0,0.60,0.03,0.75,0.73
Ashk_DE_DE_9,14.46,5.18,19.00,13.05,38.04,5.74,1.7 0,1.11,0.19,0,0.03,1.47,0.04
Ashk_AT_DE_1,17.31,7.17,16.96,9.42,37.24,6.23,0.92 ,0,1.48,0.84,0.08,0.79,1.55

[Borealis]

I promised then but I didn't say that I was going to send the results immediately.

Here you have Lower Silesians from Brieg (Brzeg) area, family name is Deutscher:


German_Lower_Silesia_Brieg1,35.75,35.19,15.01,4.06 ,7.38,0,0.07,0,1.81,0.61,0.13,0,0
German_Lower_Silesia_Brieg2,34.56,36.20,12.94,6.92 ,6.54,0,0.63,0,0.34,0.85,0.33,0.43,0.26


<tbody>
Distance to:
German_Lower_Silesia_Brieg1


3.91765236
German_East


4.74558742
Czech


5.81134236
Slovenian


6.44719319
Slovak


6.82303452
Hungarian_North


6.87755771
Austrian

</tbody>


<tbody>
Distance to:
German_Lower_Silesia_Brieg2


2.18130695
Czech


3.68972899
German_East


4.36009174
Slovak


5.16104641
Slovenian


5.80972461
Hungarian_North


6.20225765
Sorb

</tbody>

And here is that German from Braniewo (Braunsberg) area that I also promised:


German_East_Prussia_Braunsberg1,46.40,36.05,9.33,1 .39,2.77,2.18,0,0.12,0.19,0.31,0.99,0.18,0.09


<tbody>
Distance to:
German_East_Prussia_Braunsberg1


4.39931813
Swedish_East-Svealand


6.30049998
Swedish


7.18829604
Swedish_Norrland


7.37330319
Swedish_West-Svealand


8.86276481
Swedish_Götaland


9.26909920
Norwegian_Southcentral

</tbody>

Will add some more when GEDmatch starts working again.

Was not expecting the East Prussian to score like a Swede.

[Peterski]

Was not expecting the East Prussian to score like a Swede.

That's because there is no Mecklenburg population in the datasheet, and in fact he is more similar to Mecklenburg than to Sweden.

But East Prussians are very diverse, many are way more Balto-Slavic than this one, this one is about 2/3 Germanic in Mixed Mode.

[rothaer]

Was not expecting the East Prussian to score like a Swede.

It isn't real and would also not happen in K36. It's a weakness of all Eurogenes caluclators up to G25 inclusive to not being able to distinguish between a Germanic-Slavic and a Germanic-Finnic composition. Hence that Swedish and SW Finnish proximity for Eastern Germans.

[Borealis]

It isn't real and would also not happen in K36. It's a weakness of alle Eurogenes caluclators up to G25 inclusive to not being able to distinguish between a Germanic-Slavic and a Germanic-Finnic composition. Hence that Swedish and SW Finnish proximity for Eastern Germans.

G25 seems to be good at it. Too good, I would argue. Slavs are shown to have such a massive drift that they cannot even be modeled without proto-Slavic samples(Baltic_BA/IA, Avar Szolad, and CZE Early Slav).

[Peterski]

It isn't real and would also not happen in K36. It's a weakness of alle Eurogenes caluclators up to G25 inclusive to not being able to distinguish between a Germanic-Slavic and a Germanic-Finnic composition. Hence that Swedish and SW Finnish proximity for Eastern Germans.

Actually there was not just Finnic, but also a lot of Balto-Slavic presence in Viking Age Sweden.

I'm not sure about mainland Sweden, but look at this example of Balto-Slavs from Gotland:

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK64
0.03519805 Polish
0.03850389 Czech
0.03856017 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.03899479 Slovakian

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK60
0.03014564 Lithuanian_SZ
0.03089089 Lithuanian_VA
0.03133594 Lithuanian_PZ
0.03247931 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK53
0.02753272 Polish
0.03096598 Ukrainian
0.03218924 Russian_Voronez
0.03237966 Russian_Smolensk

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK51
0.03070161 Estonian
0.03139093 Polish_Kashubian
0.03673968 Finnish
0.03830703 Belarusian

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK478
0.02797097 Lithuanian_PZ
0.03181555 Latvian
0.03454153 Lithuanian_SZ
0.03537123 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK476
0.03281253 Moldovan
0.03419744 Croatian
0.03579350 Serbian
0.03687689 Bosnian

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK475
0.02406636 Lithuanian_SZ
0.02548866 Latvian
0.02705247 Lithuanian_VZ
0.02717623 Lithuanian_PZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK474
0.03028804 Lithuanian_PA
0.03117025 Lithuanian_VA
0.03326560 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.03378389 Ukrainian

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK473
0.02146122 Polish
0.02743958 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.02778883 German_East
0.02804637 Ukrainian

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK472
0.03851063 Lithuanian_PZ
0.04045562 Lithuanian_VZ
0.04079312 Latvian
0.04453363 Lithuanian_SZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK471
0.02987087 Lithuanian_RA
0.03059118 Lithuanian_SZ
0.03121988 Latvian
0.03173119 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK464
0.04347453 Lithuanian_VZ
0.04414633 Lithuanian_PZ
0.04711376 Polish_Kashubian
0.04840540 Lithuanian_PA

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK463
0.03739710 Lithuanian_RA
0.03894972 Latvian
0.03953063 Lithuanian_SZ
0.04143863 Lithuanian_VA

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK462
0.05376256 Lithuanian_PZ
0.05457480 Estonian
0.05541074 Polish_Kashubian
0.05678391 Russian_Kaluga

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK461
0.03307468 Estonian
0.03679479 Russian_Pskov
0.04019018 Lithuanian_PZ
0.04024124 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK459
0.04158279 Lithuanian_RA
0.04375372 Lithuanian_PA
0.04504947 Belarusian
0.04529239 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK458
0.02819980 Latvian
0.02978619 Lithuanian_SZ
0.03103813 Lithuanian_RA
0.03351046 Lithuanian_PZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK457
0.03211285 Russian_Tver
0.03329188 Russian_Ryazan
0.03514663 Russian_Kursk
0.03675244 Russian_Orel

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK454
0.03142527 Moldovan_o
0.03172399 Slovakian
0.03480394 Ukrainian
0.03690493 Polish

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK453
0.04460731 Polish
0.04479464 Russian_Voronez
0.04527195 Ukrainian
0.04541590 Russian_Smolensk

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK452
0.02569859 Estonian
0.03104122 Lithuanian_VZ
0.03105114 Lithuanian_PZ
0.03136099 Lithuanian_SZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK440
0.04580099 Belarusian
0.04718367 Russian_Smolensk
0.04745409 Lithuanian_PZ
0.04766008 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK439
0.04240825 Latvian
0.04427075 Lithuanian_PZ
0.04599133 Lithuanian_SZ
0.05200364 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK438
0.03157301 Lithuanian_PA
0.03174152 Lithuanian_VA
0.03330354 Russian_Pskov
0.03349253 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK434
0.03969500 Lithuanian_PZ
0.04264589 Latvian
0.04479740 Lithuanian_SZ
0.04577161 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK432
0.03581092 Latvian
0.03782218 Lithuanian_PZ
0.03788210 Lithuanian_SZ
0.04423039 Lithuanian_VZ

After averaging their results and checking with K36, they definitely do not look like Finns, but like Balto-Slavs:

https://i.imgur.com/uIecdA5.png

https://i.imgur.com/ND7NKpT.png

So Swedes most likely have Balto-Slavic admixture - just like East Germans. Of course, Swedes have Finnic too.

[Peterski]

^^^
Out of 51 samples from Gotland from that Viking Age study, as many as 30 - or 60% - are Balto-Slavs (and one Finn).

Only 11 (or 20%) have native Scandinavian results.

The remaining 20% also look foreign, but Western (British Islands, Ireland, Frankish Empire - French, German, Dutch).

[Borealis]

Actually there was not just Finnic, but also a lot of Balto-Slavic presence in Viking Age Sweden.

I'm not sure about mainland Sweden, but look at this example of Balto-Slavs from Gotland:

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK64
0.03519805 Polish
0.03850389 Czech
0.03856017 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.03899479 Slovakian

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK60
0.03014564 Lithuanian_SZ
0.03089089 Lithuanian_VA
0.03133594 Lithuanian_PZ
0.03247931 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK53
0.02753272 Polish
0.03096598 Ukrainian
0.03218924 Russian_Voronez
0.03237966 Russian_Smolensk

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK51
0.03070161 Estonian
0.03139093 Polish_Kashubian
0.03673968 Finnish
0.03830703 Belarusian

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK478
0.02797097 Lithuanian_PZ
0.03181555 Latvian
0.03454153 Lithuanian_SZ
0.03537123 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK476
0.03281253 Moldovan
0.03419744 Croatian
0.03579350 Serbian
0.03687689 Bosnian

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK475
0.02406636 Lithuanian_SZ
0.02548866 Latvian
0.02705247 Lithuanian_VZ
0.02717623 Lithuanian_PZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK474
0.03028804 Lithuanian_PA
0.03117025 Lithuanian_VA
0.03326560 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.03378389 Ukrainian

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK473
0.02146122 Polish
0.02743958 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.02778883 German_East
0.02804637 Ukrainian

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK472
0.03851063 Lithuanian_PZ
0.04045562 Lithuanian_VZ
0.04079312 Latvian
0.04453363 Lithuanian_SZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK471
0.02987087 Lithuanian_RA
0.03059118 Lithuanian_SZ
0.03121988 Latvian
0.03173119 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK464
0.04347453 Lithuanian_VZ
0.04414633 Lithuanian_PZ
0.04711376 Polish_Kashubian
0.04840540 Lithuanian_PA

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK463
0.03739710 Lithuanian_RA
0.03894972 Latvian
0.03953063 Lithuanian_SZ
0.04143863 Lithuanian_VA

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK462
0.05376256 Lithuanian_PZ
0.05457480 Estonian
0.05541074 Polish_Kashubian
0.05678391 Russian_Kaluga

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK461
0.03307468 Estonian
0.03679479 Russian_Pskov
0.04019018 Lithuanian_PZ
0.04024124 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK459
0.04158279 Lithuanian_RA
0.04375372 Lithuanian_PA
0.04504947 Belarusian
0.04529239 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK458
0.02819980 Latvian
0.02978619 Lithuanian_SZ
0.03103813 Lithuanian_RA
0.03351046 Lithuanian_PZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK457
0.03211285 Russian_Tver
0.03329188 Russian_Ryazan
0.03514663 Russian_Kursk
0.03675244 Russian_Orel

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK454
0.03142527 Moldovan_o
0.03172399 Slovakian
0.03480394 Ukrainian
0.03690493 Polish

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK453
0.04460731 Polish
0.04479464 Russian_Voronez
0.04527195 Ukrainian
0.04541590 Russian_Smolensk

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK452
0.02569859 Estonian
0.03104122 Lithuanian_VZ
0.03105114 Lithuanian_PZ
0.03136099 Lithuanian_SZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK440
0.04580099 Belarusian
0.04718367 Russian_Smolensk
0.04745409 Lithuanian_PZ
0.04766008 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK439
0.04240825 Latvian
0.04427075 Lithuanian_PZ
0.04599133 Lithuanian_SZ
0.05200364 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK438
0.03157301 Lithuanian_PA
0.03174152 Lithuanian_VA
0.03330354 Russian_Pskov
0.03349253 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK434
0.03969500 Lithuanian_PZ
0.04264589 Latvian
0.04479740 Lithuanian_SZ
0.04577161 Lithuanian_VZ

Distance to: Gotland_VA:VK432
0.03581092 Latvian
0.03782218 Lithuanian_PZ
0.03788210 Lithuanian_SZ
0.04423039 Lithuanian_VZ

After averaging their results and checking with K36, they definitely do not look like Finns, but like Balto-Slavs:

https://i.imgur.com/uIecdA5.png

https://i.imgur.com/ND7NKpT.png

So Swedes most likely have Balto-Slavic admixture - just like East Germans. Of course, Swedes have Finnic too.

This only really seems to apply to Gotland. The rest of the Viking Age Nordic samples are very much Nordic:

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Uppsala_VA
0.02715608 Swedish
0.03653525 Norwegian
0.03763795 Icelandic
0.03771131 Danish
0.04182327 Finnish_Southeast
0.04198361 Czech
0.04406675 Slovakian
0.04409086 Dutch
0.04426331 Polish
0.04582919 German_East
0.04672202 Finnish_Southwest
0.04738060 Orcadian
0.04742998 Polish_Kashubian
0.04777831 Shetlandic
0.04823395 Estonian
0.04835566 Scottish
0.04881149 Ingrian
0.04900110 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.04902315 Finnish_Central
0.04921158 Cossack_Kuban
0.04937923 German
0.04953087 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.04956288 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.04979933 Irish
0.05037389 Russian_Kursk

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Skara_VA
0.00900435 Danish
0.01363384 Dutch
0.01378218 Swedish
0.01541158 Icelandic
0.01617079 Norwegian
0.01702118 Orcadian
0.01795655 Scottish
0.01945441 Welsh
0.01979261 English
0.02087655 Shetlandic
0.02146894 Irish
0.02160133 German
0.02216815 English_Cornwall
0.02571774 French_Brittany
0.02586344 Afrikaner
0.02972477 German_East
0.03314527 Czech
0.03546913 Austrian
0.03554174 Belgian
0.03763192 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03884033 French_Nord
0.03915188 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03957603 Hungarian
0.04114909 French_Alsace
0.04389674 French_Paris

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Oland_VA
0.01498481 Dutch
0.01794920 Danish
0.01888080 Afrikaner
0.01910085 German
0.02211892 Welsh
0.02239262 Orcadian
0.02242175 Norwegian
0.02248672 Swedish
0.02271911 Scottish
0.02351482 English
0.02471767 Icelandic
0.02516515 English_Cornwall
0.02557096 Shetlandic
0.02596912 French_Brittany
0.02685475 Irish
0.03064552 Austrian
0.03093509 German_East
0.03121795 Belgian
0.03235349 Czech
0.03338817 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03433694 French_Nord
0.03511631 Hungarian
0.03617969 French_Alsace
0.03624532 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03890868 French_Paris

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Oland_IA
0.02498871 Swedish
0.02828613 Icelandic
0.02973859 Danish
0.03218154 Norwegian
0.03529041 Dutch
0.03709417 Orcadian
0.03843169 Scottish
0.03964023 Shetlandic
0.04069814 Irish
0.04111677 English
0.04269761 English_Cornwall
0.04303719 Welsh
0.04325148 German_East
0.04541471 German
0.04632561 Czech
0.04741406 Afrikaner
0.04963020 French_Brittany
0.05118246 Finnish_Southwest
0.05206373 Polish_Kashubian
0.05298672 Polish
0.05432953 Slovakian
0.05620371 Hungarian
0.05676929 Austrian
0.05947701 Finnish_Central
0.05955560 Ukrainian_Rivne

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Oland_EVA
0.03718800 Danish
0.03818628 Shetlandic
0.03944835 Norwegian
0.03957069 Swedish
0.03991571 Dutch
0.04114010 Icelandic
0.04321065 German
0.04368346 Orcadian
0.04383638 Scottish
0.04412138 Welsh
0.04424316 Czech
0.04508777 Afrikaner
0.04513114 German_East
0.04517851 Irish
0.04556670 English
0.04692238 English_Cornwall
0.04987935 Slovakian
0.05055054 French_Brittany
0.05101705 Hungarian
0.05102914 Austrian
0.05482485 Belgian
0.05623093 Slovenian
0.05630161 French_Seine-Maritime
0.05673308 Polish
0.05720175 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Malmo_VA
0.02288673 Swedish
0.02552895 Danish
0.02570996 Icelandic
0.02727582 Norwegian
0.02892590 Orcadian
0.02967525 Dutch
0.03062774 Shetlandic
0.03076172 Scottish
0.03257302 Irish
0.03397988 English
0.03448642 Welsh
0.03712804 English_Cornwall
0.03748793 German
0.03840906 German_East
0.03896577 Afrikaner
0.04042975 French_Brittany
0.04151929 Czech
0.04839498 Austrian
0.04966717 Hungarian
0.04999893 Belgian
0.05060405 French_Seine-Maritime
0.05098998 Slovakian
0.05264820 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.05307986 Polish
0.05325268 French_Nord

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Karda_VA
0.01592960 Afrikaner
0.02209437 French_Brittany
0.02242473 Belgian
0.02466989 French_Nord
0.02473155 Welsh
0.02540842 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.02580752 Dutch
0.02601096 English_Cornwall
0.02643588 English
0.02723413 Orcadian
0.02739406 Scottish
0.02762535 German
0.02767158 French_Paris
0.02839287 French_Alsace
0.02950556 Irish
0.02990695 Swiss_German
0.03325754 Danish
0.03370193 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03477380 Shetlandic
0.03554739 Austrian
0.03677568 French_Occitanie
0.03741284 Icelandic
0.03760415 Norwegian
0.04009164 French_Auvergne
0.04240466 Swedish

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA_o
0.02290904 Vepsian
0.02355412 Karelian
0.02364603 Russian_Pinezhsky
0.02435574 Russian_Pinega
0.02942798 Russian_Krasnoborsky
0.02945826 Finnish_North
0.03374760 Finnish_East
0.03425357 Finnish_Central
0.03615780 Ingrian
0.03917738 Russian_Leshukonsky
0.03934603 Russian_Kostroma
0.04059544 Erzya
0.04573618 Finnish_Southeast
0.04688209 Finnish_Southwest
0.04757929 Moksha
0.05480056 Russian_Yaroslavl
0.05657289 Komi
0.05793822 Russian_Tver
0.05846821 Cossack_Kuban
0.06033957 Estonian
0.06206212 Tatar_Mishar
0.06336956 Russian_Ryazan
0.06353968 Saami_Kola
0.06617621 Russian_Kursk
0.06699825 Russian_Kaluga

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA
0.02166760 Polish
0.02717755 Czech
0.02851734 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02969106 Polish_Kashubian
0.03013113 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.03056353 German_East
0.03083324 Swedish
0.03105803 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.03144092 Slovakian
0.03183894 Russian_Smolensk
0.03199430 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.03206600 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.03208216 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.03222839 Russian_Voronez
0.03246961 Belarusian
0.03257304 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.03322796 Russian_Kursk
0.03360035 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.03378954 Russian_Orel
0.03456915 Lithuanian_PA
0.03501411 Russian_Kaluga
0.03570678 Russian_Belgorod
0.03650351 Russian_Pskov
0.03728999 Russian_Ryazan
0.03822636 Estonian

[Peterski]

This only really seems to apply to Gotland. The rest of the Viking Age Nordic samples are very much Nordic:

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Uppsala_VA
0.02715608 Swedish
0.03653525 Norwegian
0.03763795 Icelandic
0.03771131 Danish
0.04182327 Finnish_Southeast
0.04198361 Czech
0.04406675 Slovakian
0.04409086 Dutch
0.04426331 Polish
0.04582919 German_East
0.04672202 Finnish_Southwest
0.04738060 Orcadian
0.04742998 Polish_Kashubian
0.04777831 Shetlandic
0.04823395 Estonian
0.04835566 Scottish
0.04881149 Ingrian
0.04900110 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.04902315 Finnish_Central
0.04921158 Cossack_Kuban
0.04937923 German
0.04953087 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.04956288 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.04979933 Irish
0.05037389 Russian_Kursk

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Skara_VA
0.00900435 Danish
0.01363384 Dutch
0.01378218 Swedish
0.01541158 Icelandic
0.01617079 Norwegian
0.01702118 Orcadian
0.01795655 Scottish
0.01945441 Welsh
0.01979261 English
0.02087655 Shetlandic
0.02146894 Irish
0.02160133 German
0.02216815 English_Cornwall
0.02571774 French_Brittany
0.02586344 Afrikaner
0.02972477 German_East
0.03314527 Czech
0.03546913 Austrian
0.03554174 Belgian
0.03763192 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03884033 French_Nord
0.03915188 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03957603 Hungarian
0.04114909 French_Alsace
0.04389674 French_Paris

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Oland_VA
0.01498481 Dutch
0.01794920 Danish
0.01888080 Afrikaner
0.01910085 German
0.02211892 Welsh
0.02239262 Orcadian
0.02242175 Norwegian
0.02248672 Swedish
0.02271911 Scottish
0.02351482 English
0.02471767 Icelandic
0.02516515 English_Cornwall
0.02557096 Shetlandic
0.02596912 French_Brittany
0.02685475 Irish
0.03064552 Austrian
0.03093509 German_East
0.03121795 Belgian
0.03235349 Czech
0.03338817 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03433694 French_Nord
0.03511631 Hungarian
0.03617969 French_Alsace
0.03624532 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03890868 French_Paris

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Oland_IA
0.02498871 Swedish
0.02828613 Icelandic
0.02973859 Danish
0.03218154 Norwegian
0.03529041 Dutch
0.03709417 Orcadian
0.03843169 Scottish
0.03964023 Shetlandic
0.04069814 Irish
0.04111677 English
0.04269761 English_Cornwall
0.04303719 Welsh
0.04325148 German_East
0.04541471 German
0.04632561 Czech
0.04741406 Afrikaner
0.04963020 French_Brittany
0.05118246 Finnish_Southwest
0.05206373 Polish_Kashubian
0.05298672 Polish
0.05432953 Slovakian
0.05620371 Hungarian
0.05676929 Austrian
0.05947701 Finnish_Central
0.05955560 Ukrainian_Rivne

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Oland_EVA
0.03718800 Danish
0.03818628 Shetlandic
0.03944835 Norwegian
0.03957069 Swedish
0.03991571 Dutch
0.04114010 Icelandic
0.04321065 German
0.04368346 Orcadian
0.04383638 Scottish
0.04412138 Welsh
0.04424316 Czech
0.04508777 Afrikaner
0.04513114 German_East
0.04517851 Irish
0.04556670 English
0.04692238 English_Cornwall
0.04987935 Slovakian
0.05055054 French_Brittany
0.05101705 Hungarian
0.05102914 Austrian
0.05482485 Belgian
0.05623093 Slovenian
0.05630161 French_Seine-Maritime
0.05673308 Polish
0.05720175 Ukrainian_Zakarpattia

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Malmo_VA
0.02288673 Swedish
0.02552895 Danish
0.02570996 Icelandic
0.02727582 Norwegian
0.02892590 Orcadian
0.02967525 Dutch
0.03062774 Shetlandic
0.03076172 Scottish
0.03257302 Irish
0.03397988 English
0.03448642 Welsh
0.03712804 English_Cornwall
0.03748793 German
0.03840906 German_East
0.03896577 Afrikaner
0.04042975 French_Brittany
0.04151929 Czech
0.04839498 Austrian
0.04966717 Hungarian
0.04999893 Belgian
0.05060405 French_Seine-Maritime
0.05098998 Slovakian
0.05264820 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.05307986 Polish
0.05325268 French_Nord

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Karda_VA
0.01592960 Afrikaner
0.02209437 French_Brittany
0.02242473 Belgian
0.02466989 French_Nord
0.02473155 Welsh
0.02540842 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.02580752 Dutch
0.02601096 English_Cornwall
0.02643588 English
0.02723413 Orcadian
0.02739406 Scottish
0.02762535 German
0.02767158 French_Paris
0.02839287 French_Alsace
0.02950556 Irish
0.02990695 Swiss_German
0.03325754 Danish
0.03370193 French_Seine-Maritime
0.03477380 Shetlandic
0.03554739 Austrian
0.03677568 French_Occitanie
0.03741284 Icelandic
0.03760415 Norwegian
0.04009164 French_Auvergne
0.04240466 Swedish

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA_o
0.02290904 Vepsian
0.02355412 Karelian
0.02364603 Russian_Pinezhsky
0.02435574 Russian_Pinega
0.02942798 Russian_Krasnoborsky
0.02945826 Finnish_North
0.03374760 Finnish_East
0.03425357 Finnish_Central
0.03615780 Ingrian
0.03917738 Russian_Leshukonsky
0.03934603 Russian_Kostroma
0.04059544 Erzya
0.04573618 Finnish_Southeast
0.04688209 Finnish_Southwest
0.04757929 Moksha
0.05480056 Russian_Yaroslavl
0.05657289 Komi
0.05793822 Russian_Tver
0.05846821 Cossack_Kuban
0.06033957 Estonian
0.06206212 Tatar_Mishar
0.06336956 Russian_Ryazan
0.06353968 Saami_Kola
0.06617621 Russian_Kursk
0.06699825 Russian_Kaluga

Distance to: VK2020_SWE_Gotland_VA
0.02166760 Polish
0.02717755 Czech
0.02851734 Ukrainian_Rivne
0.02969106 Polish_Kashubian
0.03013113 Ukrainian_Zhytomyr
0.03056353 German_East
0.03083324 Swedish
0.03105803 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.03144092 Slovakian
0.03183894 Russian_Smolensk
0.03199430 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.03206600 Ukrainian_Sumy
0.03208216 Ukrainian_Dnipro
0.03222839 Russian_Voronez
0.03246961 Belarusian
0.03257304 Ukrainian_Chernihiv
0.03322796 Russian_Kursk
0.03360035 Ukrainian_Lviv
0.03378954 Russian_Orel
0.03456915 Lithuanian_PA
0.03501411 Russian_Kaluga
0.03570678 Russian_Belgorod
0.03650351 Russian_Pskov
0.03728999 Russian_Ryazan
0.03822636 Estonian

You are using averages not individual samples.

Samples from other islands also have Balto-Slavic individuals, but not as many as in Gotland.

In Gotland the majority, 60%, have Balto-Slavic results, that's why the average looks "Polish".

[rothaer]

I promised then but I didn't say that I was going to send the results immediately.
Here you have (...)

I prefer not to comment on your readiness when it's about doing your part of a data exchange.

[Borealis]

You are using averages not individual samples.

Samples from other islands also have Balto-Slavic individuals, but not as many as in Gotland.

In Gotland the majority, 60%, have Balto-Slavic results, that's why the average looks "Polish".

fair enough. There must've been some level of crossover during the Viking era leading to Varangians in the east and Balto-Slavic ancestry in the north. For some reason the Vikings didn't leave a genetic imprint on the east.

Finnish themselves have a lot of Baltic shift. It's a mix of Baltic, Nordic, and Uralic.

[rothaer]

(...) So Swedes most likely have Balto-Slavic admixture - just like East Germans. Of course, Swedes have Finnic too.

But that is no cause for me to get SW Finnish in G25 as a somewhat close population. In K36 it's not at all and it seems to be the applicable aspect of the K36 "Fennoscandian" component that lacks representation in all other Eurogenes calculators.