"Hallstatt Nordic"

[XenophobicPrussian]

Called it years ago. AUT = Austria.

Distance to: AUT_IA_La_Tene:I11699
0.02310597 Spanish_Barcelones
0.02948572 French_Auvergne
0.02981259 French_Occitanie
0.03140355 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03176138 Spanish_Aragon
0.03239779 French_South
0.03244784 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.03374255 Basque_French
0.03383349 Spanish_Cantabria
0.03523647 Spanish_Baleares


Distance to: AUT_IA_La_Tene:I11708
0.02996220 Swiss_French
0.03076345 French_Auvergne
0.03414650 French_Provence
0.03489460 French_Occitanie
0.03654459 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03699700 Spanish_Castello
0.03712843 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03719893 Italian_Veneto
0.03732971 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03783411 Swiss_German

Distance to: AUT_IA_La_Tene:I11701
0.02519460 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02948698 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03077887 Italian_Veneto
0.03182894 French_Provence
0.03248383 Italian_Bergamo
0.03422510 French_Auvergne
0.03455539 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03611462 Swiss_French
0.03628018 Spanish_Baleares
0.03662440 Swiss_German


Distance to: HUN_EIA_Hallstatt:I18227
0.03401692 French_Auvergne
0.03596159 French_Occitanie
0.03757210 French_Alsace
0.03821949 Swiss_German
0.03826917 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03867471 Swiss_French
0.03961965 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03992117 French_Nord
0.04130941 Spanish_Barcelones
0.04131267 French_Provence


https://fighter-headshots.s3.amazonaws.com/mens-ww/Joel-Alvarez.jpg

These high EEF core Hallstatt/La Tene types of people made it all the way north to southern England/channel islands and Czechia, although most were mixed and N. French-like by the time they got to a place like England. Most Czech Hallstatt/La Tene samples are a mix between Austrian Hallstatt/La Tene, Pre_Germanic_Northern and surprisingly exotic Scythian/eastern potentially Slavic stuff(by proxy of Scythians, some have none and are just Austrian Hallstatt/La Tene+Pre_Germanic_Northern, clustering around northern French), of which the Scythian is archaeologically supported as cultural influence in Celtic. Slovakia was even more exotic than Czechia, with very southern and Caucasus shifted people(kind of off-topic, but I would guess this has to be quite related to ultra Gorid and Carpathid types), but with obvious Celtic admixture as well.

Distance to: Channel_Islands_IA:I16430
0.03711851 French_Occitanie
0.03979459 Basque_French
0.04034590 French_Paris
0.04093472 French_Auvergne
0.04193625 Spanish_Barcelones
0.04218200 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.04228721 French_Nord
0.04249619 French_Alsace
0.04304361 Belgian
0.04328622 Swiss_German

Distance to: CZE_IA_Hallstatt:I14980
0.03223609 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03382862 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03468758 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03484733 French_Auvergne
0.03501583 Spanish_Castello
0.03608430 Spanish_Baleares
0.03726065 Italian_Veneto
0.03744262 French_Occitanie
0.03778227 French_South
0.03865577 Italian_Bergamo



Good model for Austrians:

Hallstatt_Celt:AUT_IA_La_Tene:I11699,0.127482,0.15 2329,0.050534,0.005814,0.047701,0.00251,0.004465,0 .011307,0.02127,0.026606,-0.002598,0.006594,-0.009366,-0.004954,0.007736,-0.009149,-0.017602,0.003421,0.005908,-0.004627,0.000998,0.002349,-0.004067,-0.005543,-0.006347
Hallstatt_Celt:AUT_IA_La_Tene:I11701,0.126344,0.14 5221,0.039598,0.000646,0.038469,0.000279,0.00188,0 .006923,0.006954,0.018041,-0.003085,0.005845,-0.014717,0.004129,0.002579,-0.009679,-0.012386,0.007221,0.013575,-0.002876,0.000998,-0.004451,0.004067,-0.00253,-0.006586
Hallstatt_Celt:AUT_IA_La_Tene:I11708,0.134311,0.14 6236,0.049026,0.008075,0.043085,0.007809,0.001175,-0.000231,0.017589,0.021868,0.002273,0.007194,-0.007284,-0.008533,-0.005836,0.004508,0.019688,0.006461,0.004399,0.001 626,0.003369,0.001978,-0.010599,0.004579,-0.000359
Hallstatt_Celt:HUN_EIA_Hallstatt:I18227,0.133173,0 .146236,0.056191,0.016473,0.049548,-0.006972,0.00188,0.001385,0.01084,0.015855,-0.000325,0.009292,-0.007284,0.004404,-0.004479,0.005701,0.005998,0.00266,0.011187,-0.005378,-0.007237,0.000247,-0.000493,-0.008676,-0.001078
Pre_Germanic_Northern:NLD_MIA_LIA:I12906,0.120652, 0.13405,0.054682,0.041021,0.037545,0.014223,0.0105 75,0.005538,0.003068,0.010934,0.000487,0.016935,-0.003122,-0.004542,0.010722,-0.004906,-0.020079,0.003927,-0.000628,0.011506,0.01148,0.012489,-0.004807,-0.001446,0.006706
Republic_Roman:ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA:RMPR851,0.13317 3,0.156392,0.0445,-0.00969,0.044008,-0.004462,0.00846,0.003,0.024543,0.044101,-0.002598,0.012289,-0.022448,-0.009634,-0.005429,-0.005834,0.00352,0.003167,0.006034,-0.007379,-0.008859,0.005317,-0.000863,-0.006989,-0.001796
Republic_Roman:ITA_Boville_Ernica_IA:RMPR1021,0.12 6344,0.152329,0.034318,-0.014535,0.054164,-0.01506,-0.001175,0.005307,0.019634,0.041914,0.005196,0.010 79,-0.011001,-0.005643,0.004479,-0.016441,-0.010822,-0.001394,0.006662,-0.01113,0.007736,0.007172,-0.007641,-0.00241,0.008981
Republic_Roman:ITA_Rome_Latini_IA:RMPR1016,0.12748 2,0.147252,0.033187,-0.016796,0.044008,-0.008646,-0.00376,-0.004846,0.026588,0.052666,-0.002761,0.015137,-0.036719,-0.008533,-0.009093,0.013392,0.016037,-0.004687,0.003897,0.004127,0.00262,-0.00272,0.001972,-0.007712,-0.008742
Imperial_Roman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL25,0.105855,0. 151314,-0.029415,-0.052972,0.001846,-0.015897,-0.00282,-0.004615,0.001227,0.016583,0.006496,0.007643,-0.010258,0.004266,-0.004343,-0.004243,0.009518,-0.006081,0.011187,0.002126,-0.004492,0.009398,0.001479,-0.002048,0
Imperial_Roman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL30,0.113823,0. 150298,-0.026398,-0.056848,0.008001,-0.015897,0.005875,0.001846,0.006136,0.015308,0.010 068,0.000599,-0.004757,0.003303,-0.0019,0.000133,0.005085,0.002787,0.004525,-0.001251,-0.001248,-0.008903,0.009983,-0.00253,-0.003233
Imperial_Roman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL38,0.101303,0. 144205,-0.018856,-0.055556,0.007386,-0.016455,-0.00846,-0.008538,-0.004704,0.014397,0.004709,0.009591,-0.00996,-0.005643,-0.014251,0.000928,0.010561,0,-0.002263,0.001251,0.001123,0.006306,-0.002095,0.010001,0.008023
Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2,0.134311,0.126941,0.081 458,0.065569,0.035391,0.033746,0.00987,0.005769,0. 004704,-0.02278,-0.002436,-0.005395,0.01219,0.020643,-0.015201,-0.003845,0.005867,0.004561,0.008673,5e-04,0.001497,-0.00272,0.013804,-0.007109,0.002634
Germanic: DEU_MA:AED_106,0.125205,0.133034,0.064865,0.067184 ,0.03416,0.020917,0.00517,0.008769,0.002863,-0.009476,-0.006171,0.002548,-0.012042,-0.006193,0.019544,0.008486,0.015255,-0.006968,-0.015964,0.005503,-0.003244,0.012736,-0.017378,0.005422,-0.000239
Germanic: DEU_MA:AED_249,0.125205,0.126941,0.071653,0.04845, 0.043085,0.023706,0.020211,0.001385,0.003477,-0.01057,-0.011854,-0.002398,-0.009663,0.003303,0.019679,-0.002784,-0.026598,-0.001774,0.004148,0.00988,0.01697,-0.006554,0.000123,0.007953,0.010658
Germanic: DEU_MA:ALH_1,0.118376,0.129988,0.06939,0.051034,0. 048009,0.023148,0.014101,-0.000692,0.006136,-0.001822,-0.002436,0.003447,-0.008474,-0.012248,0.012486,0.008088,-0.005215,0.004307,0.00817,0.009755,0.009858,0.0046 99,0.001725,0.002771,-0.002395
Pre_Slavic_Balkan:HRV_IA:I3313,0.132035,0.151314,0 .033941,-0.01615,0.024928,-0.005857,-0.006345,0.007154,0.003681,0.028976,0.001786,0.011 69,-0.02111,-0.001376,-0.005972,-0.008486,-0.006519,0.004941,0.005531,-0.014257,-0.001872,0.00507,0.001479,0.00253,0.003353

Target: Austrian
Distance: 0.9987% / 0.00998744
35.6 Germanic
23.6 Hallstatt_Celt
23.6 Slavic
10.8 Imperial_Roman
6.4 Pre_Slavic_Balkan

[Flashball]

They are just "Culture de Tene" Gaulish-like, but not "spaniard" or whatever Taforalt-influenced people, with Tepecik and other thing.

My father is very close to the IA Culture de Tene Hauts-de-France sample (a woman).
True Gaulish, neither "southern", neithern northern, neither eastern, just Western Gaulish thing.

Rien de surprenant. Je ne comprends pas pourquoi lié cela à l'Espagne, alors qu'ils ont des apports non-européens, contrairement aux Basques et aux Français de souche (native).

Cela n'a pas de rapport avec les Espagnols modernes.

[Tellmewhy]

So, does it mean Hallstatt Nordic people of that time are closest to modern day Southwest Europeans?

[Ibericus]

Yup, they mostly have a catalan/occitan profile..it is what it is.

[cass]

So, does it mean Hallstatt Nordic people of that time are closest to modern day Southwest Europeans?

Rather prove that the depigmentation of this type is rather late phenomena.

[J.S.]

So, does it mean Hallstatt Nordic people of that time are closest to modern day Southwest Europeans?

Run a PCA with all the Hallstatt/lLa Tene samples from Central Europe and you'll see how their autosomal profile look like.

[J.S.]

Yup, they mostly have a catalan/occitan profile..it is what it is.


Hallstatt/La Tene Central Europe samples? I'd rather say mostly French-like and I wonder what that means.

[Peterski]

You are showing only the samples that you like, very selectively (why didn't you show also for example Hallstatt and La Tene samples from Czechia?).

And here is K36 Similitude map for Iron Age Channel Islands (all samples are from one island, Alderney):

n=3 [samples: I16430, I26628, I16505]

https://i.imgur.com/0uuFPu0.png

Some top closest single distances (when using more of regional populations):

[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
FR_Bretagne-Rennes
0.7524826
FR_Lower-Normandy
0.7734093
FR_Hauts-de-France
0.7964534
FR_Nord-Department
0.7987265
FR_Pas-de-Calais
0.8303295
FR_Pays-de-la-Loire
0.8326746
FR_Normandy-Manche
0.8371225
FR_Ile-de-France
0.8735153
(...)

And here are the K36 scores used:

Sample Alderney_IA

Amerindian 0
Arabian 0.20
Armenian 0
Basque 4.65
Central African 0.08
Central Euro 8.90
East African 0
East Asian 0
East Balkan 0.95
East Central Asian 0
East Central Euro 6.20
East Med 0
Eastern Euro 2.37
Fennoscandian 6.35
French 4.76
Iberian 21.69
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 11.48
Malayan 0
Near Eastern 0
North African 1.91
North Atlantic 13.19
North Caucasian 0
North Sea 15.44
Northeast African 0
Oceanian 0.25
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South Asian 0.24
South Central Asian 0
South Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 0.29
West African 0
West Caucasian 0.38
West Med 0.66

[Peterski]

Hallstatt/La Tene Central Europe samples? I'd rather say mostly French-like and I wonder what that means.

It means that the highest amount of Iron Age Celtic ancestry exists in modern France, while Celtic ancestry in modern Central Europe has been dilluted by other populations.


Run a PCA with all the Hallstatt/lLa Tene samples from Central Europe and you'll see how their autosomal profile look like.

Indeed, Xenophobic only selected the samples he liked.

Instead of using all of the Hallstatt / La Tene samples.

[Hulu]

Distance to: Hulu_scaled
0.05756484 Pre_Slavic_Balkan:HRV_IA:I3313
0.05938801 Imperial_Roman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL38
0.06091585 Imperial_Roman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL30
0.06183378 Imperial_Roman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL25
0.07057599 Republic_Roman:ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA:RMPR851
0.07066078 Hallstatt_Celt:AUT_IA_La_Tene:I11701
0.07222470 Republic_Roman:ITA_Rome_Latini_IA:RMPR1016
0.07496565 Republic_Roman:ITA_Boville_Ernica_IA:RMPR1021
0.07521148 Hallstatt_Celt:AUT_IA_La_Tene:I11708
0.07781509 Hallstatt_Celt:HUN_EIA_Hallstatt:I18227
0.08681527 Hallstatt_Celt:AUT_IA_La_Tene:I11699
0.11356359 Pre_Germanic_Northern:NLD_MIA_LIA:I12906
0.12728529 Germanic:DEU_MA:ALH_1
0.13679911 Germanic:DEU_MA:AED_106
0.14034034 Germanic:DEU_MA:AED_249
0.14560719 Slavic:HUN_Avar_Szolad:Av2

Target: Hulu_scaled
Distance: 2.7961% / 0.02796099
58.6 Imperial_Roman
38.2 Hallstatt_Celt
3.2 Republic_Roman

Target: Hulu_scaled
Distance: 2.7961% / 0.02796099
38.2 Hallstatt_Celt:HUN_EIA_Hallstatt:I18227
29.2 Imperial_Roman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL38
15.2 Imperial_Roman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL25
14.2 Imperial_Roman:ITA_Collegno_MA_o1:CL30
1.6 Republic_Roman:ITA_Ardea_Latini_IA:RMPR851
1.6 Republic_Roman:ITA_Rome_Latini_IA:RMPR1016

[J. Ketch]

The Austrians are SW Euro like, but the Czech Iron Age is North French like! There's a turnip for the books (although the two previous Hallstatt samples from Cze were divided, one North French like, one SW Euro like).

Averages:

Distance to: AUT_IA_La_Tene
0.01878363 French_Auvergne
0.02107609 Spanish_Barcelones
0.02113828 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02252736 French_Occitanie
0.02340511 French_Provence
0.02344695 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.02374514 Swiss_French
0.02376993 Spanish_Girona
0.02398743 Spanish_Mallorca
0.02408162 Spanish_Lleida
0.02418693 Spanish_Penedes
0.02423595 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.02466524 Italian_Northeast
0.02482884 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.02523660 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.02557335 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.02658093 Spanish_Baleares
0.02677327 Italian_Veneto
0.02748863 Spanish_Menorca
0.02769109 Swiss_German

Distance to: CZE_IA_Hallstatt
0.02092513 French_Nord
0.02108294 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.02150384 French_Alsace
0.02286985 Belgian
0.02343261 Swiss_German
0.02423916 German
0.02547487 French_Paris
0.02618110 Austrian
0.02682101 French_Occitanie
0.02864765 French_Brittany
0.02926698 French_Seine-Maritime
0.02932735 French_Auvergne
0.03066725 Afrikaner
0.03177259 Welsh
0.03264466 Swiss_French
0.03454600 English_Cornwall
0.03462913 English
0.03606177 Dutch
0.03759427 Hungarian
0.03798577 Orcadian


Distance to: CZE_IA_La_Tene
0.01703564 French_Brittany
0.01707957 Belgian
0.01735262 German
0.01736496 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.01768133 French_Nord
0.02087601 French_Alsace
0.02089861 Welsh
0.02232584 Afrikaner
0.02268327 French_Paris
0.02329333 Swiss_German
0.02338399 English
0.02393348 English_Cornwall
0.02540834 Austrian
0.02568672 Dutch
0.02608495 French_Seine-Maritime
0.02668538 Orcadian
0.02692942 Scottish
0.02951681 French_Occitanie
0.03040330 Danish
0.03070091 Irish
0.03313495 French_Auvergne
0.03355894 Shetlandic
0.03483891 Norwegian
0.03580252 German_East
0.03644517 Icelandic

Distance to: CZE_IA_La_Tene_Hallstatt
0.03467321 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03589264 Swiss_French
0.03691070 French_Auvergne
0.03766178 French_Paris
0.03771456 French_Occitanie
0.03869517 French_Nord
0.03921399 Swiss_German
0.03981303 French_Alsace
0.04057829 Belgian
0.04151222 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04284376 French_Provence
0.04360273 Spanish_Soria
0.04370043 Spanish_Penedes
0.04452110 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04472238 Spanish_Girona
0.04477058 Austrian
0.04530433 German
0.04619204 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04665426 Spanish_Castello
0.04674797 French_Brittany
0.04721220 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04729474 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04763911 Spanish_Lleida
0.04779536 French_Seine-Maritime
0.04780505 Italian_Northeast

[Peterski]

Distance to: AUT_IA_La_Tene:I11708
0.02996220 Swiss_French
0.03076345 French_Auvergne
0.03414650 French_Provence
0.03489460 French_Occitanie
0.03654459 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.03699700 Spanish_Castello
0.03712843 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.03719893 Italian_Veneto
0.03732971 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.03783411 Swiss_German

I remember when you claimed that modern Swiss French have tons of Germanic admixture. And now we have a Hallstatt Celt from Austria, without any Germanic ancestry, who is close to Swiss French.

BTW what you claimed years ago was that Proto-Celts were similar to Basques, IIRC.


The Austrians are SW Euro like, but the Czech Iron Age is North French like! There's a turnip for the books (although the two previous Hallstatt samples from Cze were divided, one North French like, one SW Euro like).

Averages:

Distance to: AUT_IA_La_Tene
0.01878363 French_Auvergne
0.02107609 Spanish_Barcelones
0.02113828 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02252736 French_Occitanie
0.02340511 French_Provence
0.02344695 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.02374514 Swiss_French
0.02376993 Spanish_Girona
0.02398743 Spanish_Mallorca
0.02408162 Spanish_Lleida
0.02418693 Spanish_Penedes
0.02423595 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.02466524 Italian_Northeast
0.02482884 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.02523660 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.02557335 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.02658093 Spanish_Baleares
0.02677327 Italian_Veneto
0.02748863 Spanish_Menorca
0.02769109 Swiss_German

Distance to: CZE_IA_Hallstatt
0.02092513 French_Nord
0.02108294 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.02150384 French_Alsace
0.02286985 Belgian
0.02343261 Swiss_German
0.02423916 German
0.02547487 French_Paris
0.02618110 Austrian
0.02682101 French_Occitanie
0.02864765 French_Brittany
0.02926698 French_Seine-Maritime
0.02932735 French_Auvergne
0.03066725 Afrikaner
0.03177259 Welsh
0.03264466 Swiss_French
0.03454600 English_Cornwall
0.03462913 English
0.03606177 Dutch
0.03759427 Hungarian
0.03798577 Orcadian


Distance to: CZE_IA_La_Tene
0.01703564 French_Brittany
0.01707957 Belgian
0.01735262 German
0.01736496 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.01768133 French_Nord
0.02087601 French_Alsace
0.02089861 Welsh
0.02232584 Afrikaner
0.02268327 French_Paris
0.02329333 Swiss_German
0.02338399 English
0.02393348 English_Cornwall
0.02540834 Austrian
0.02568672 Dutch
0.02608495 French_Seine-Maritime
0.02668538 Orcadian
0.02692942 Scottish
0.02951681 French_Occitanie
0.03040330 Danish
0.03070091 Irish
0.03313495 French_Auvergne
0.03355894 Shetlandic
0.03483891 Norwegian
0.03580252 German_East
0.03644517 Icelandic

Distance to: CZE_IA_La_Tene_Hallstatt
0.03467321 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03589264 Swiss_French
0.03691070 French_Auvergne
0.03766178 French_Paris
0.03771456 French_Occitanie
0.03869517 French_Nord
0.03921399 Swiss_German
0.03981303 French_Alsace
0.04057829 Belgian
0.04151222 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04284376 French_Provence
0.04360273 Spanish_Soria
0.04370043 Spanish_Penedes
0.04452110 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04472238 Spanish_Girona
0.04477058 Austrian
0.04530433 German
0.04619204 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04665426 Spanish_Castello
0.04674797 French_Brittany
0.04721220 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04729474 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04763911 Spanish_Lleida
0.04779536 French_Seine-Maritime
0.04780505 Italian_Northeast

Auvergne is not SW Euro, but rather Central French.

Remember that the famous Vercingetorix was born in present-day Auvergne and probably he was not very different autosomally from modern Auvergnants.

Auvergne is not Spanish-like autosomally.

=====

What this study shows is that Iron Age Celts had a similar range of variation as the modern French. It also confirms that the French are mostly descended from Celts.

[J. Ketch]

I still think the Alpine Celts/natives were more Italian shifted, they were from LBK Farmers with less WHG than Atlantic Farmers, and all of France, Iberia, and the British Isles shifted east after the Bronze Age. North France and Britain to the southeast, Iberia to the northeast (from proto-Gauls). Modern South/West Germans are modelled more between Scandinavians and North Italians, rather than Iberians.

[J. Ketch]

What this study shows is that Iron Age Celts had a similar range of variation as the modern French. It also confirms that the French are mostly descended from Celts.
No shit, but how much are they descended from proto-Celts?

[J. Ketch]

Rather prove that the depigmentation of this type is rather late phenomena.
Or it was a misnomer in the first place, which we already knew.

[Peterski]

I still think the Alpine Celts/natives were more Italian shifted, they were from LBK Farmers with less WHG than Atlantic Farmers, and all of France, Iberia, and the British Isles shifted east after the Bronze Age. North France and Britain to the southeast, Iberia to the northeast (from proto-Gauls). Modern South/West Germans are modelled more between Scandinavians and North Italians, rather than Iberians.

Italian influence on South/West Germans is the result of Imperial Roman population (this includes East Med admixture) which they absorbed from settlements along the Rhine.

Modern North Italians have MENA admixture, ancient Alpine Celts didn't have it.

But Imperial Romans did.

Modern South/West Germans have low levels of it from Imperial Romans.

North Italians are a mix of Romans and Alpine Celts, that's probably why South/West Germans - who have both Celtic and Imperial Roman admixtures - are modelled well as Scandinavians plus North Italians.

[tipirneni]

Apart from those, There are high EEF groups which have different profile altogether who have Levant like mtDNA , K1a etc... and some more ancient Steppe mix

Target: Scotland_C_EBA_highEEF_low_res:I2413___BC_1986___C overage_8.18%
Distance: 2.9202% / 0.02920232
24.2 DEU_Tollense_BA
19.8 Scotland_LIA
19.0 DNK_BA
8.8 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
7.8 VK2020_Faroes_EM
4.6 RUS_Fatyanovo_Tver_BA
3.0 ZAF_2100BP
2.8 ITA_Daunian
2.8 TUR_Catalhoyuk_N_Ceramic
2.6 CMR_Shum_Laka_3000BP
2.6 PER_Laramate_900BP
0.8 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG
0.6 ITA_Etruscan_Casenovole
0.6 Wales_Meso

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wrhurst/mtdna-k/sykeskmap.jpg

https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/ewan-mcgregor-3.jpg
https://www.scotland.org/images/uploads/general/Gerard_Butler_1.jpg

[J.S.]

You are showing only the samples that you like, very selectively (why didn't you show also for example Hallstatt and La Tene samples from Czechia?).

And here is K36 Similitude map for Iron Age Channel Islands (all samples are from one island, Alderney):


Can you, please, do the same with the Hallstatt/La Tene samples (averaged, i guess...:) from the different countries of Central Europe, or is it too much work?

[J.S.]

I remember when you claimed that modern Swiss French have tons of Germanic admixture. And now we have a Hallstatt Celt from Austria, without any Germanic ancestry, who is close to Swiss French.

BTW what you claimed years ago was that Proto-Celts were similar to Basques, IIRC.



Auvergne is not SW Euro, but rather Central French.

Remember that the famous Vercingetorix was born in present-day Auvergne and probably he was not very different autosomally from modern Auvergnants.

Auvergne is not Spanish-like autosomally.

=====

What this study shows is that Iron Age Celts had a similar range of variation as the modern French. It also confirms that the French are mostly descended from Celts.

Auvergne, SW. Euro...:) Auvergne, the land of Vercingetorix, is definitely central France. Congrats mate...i'm very impressed by your knowledge and honesty.

[XenophobicPrussian]

You are showing only the samples that you like, very selectively (why didn't you show also for example Hallstatt and La Tene samples from Czechia?).

You can't be this dumb dude. If you weren't too lazy to actually read the whole post I cover Czechia, not that Czechia has any relevance to this(where is Hallstatt? Austria, not Czechia). Maybe you want me to use a sample from Celtic Anatolia too? The lone Hungarian sample is also not from Austria, but given Hungary is even more southern/eastern geographically yet the sample clustered where it did it's clear that sample was a migrant descendant from Austria/the Alpine core, as are all the SW Euro clustering samples found all over Celtic Europe. Czech Celts were not only N. French like, but some clustered around modern Austrians, Germans, East Germans, indicating they had exotic eastern admixture as well. All of this is irrelevant either way to what the core, original Celts were, especially in this thread where I mock the phenotypical classification of "Hallstatt Nordic"(literally based on skulls from -HALLSTATT-, Austria).

https://i.pinimg.com/550x/c3/72/c1/c372c1e62e78960b73efc7d0d92a3536.jpg

I remember when you claimed that modern Swiss French have tons of Germanic admixture. And now we have a Hallstatt Celt from Austria, without any Germanic ancestry, who is close to Swiss French.

I've already educated you on this before, why do I have to keep repeating myself? Modern Swiss French do have around 20-25% Germanic admixture, where they cluster is meaningless and irrelevant. Ancient Romans also cluster around SW Europeans, that does not mean Iberians are ancient Romans. Swiss French are a mish mash of these core Alpine Celts, pre-Celtic-Germanic French from the NW(from intra-Celtic migration and then later intra medieval/modern French migration), Germanics with lots of exotic things from the Romans as well, it just so happens this specific mix wound up having similar WHG/EEF/etc components as the original inhabitants of the area. I don't know why you still post about or have an interest in genetics when you still have no idea what you're doing after all these years.

[XenophobicPrussian]

Rather prove that the depigmentation of this type is rather late phenomena.
No, it proves the Hallstatt Nordic phenotype is bullshit, atleast the southern Swedish "refugia" of it. Southern Swedes have 0 to noise level, less than 2% admixture from these Hallstatt samples. They are completely unrelated as far as post Iron Age admixture is concerned(which is what the "Hallstatt Nordic" phenotype is supposed to reflect, I'm not talking about "Nordic" or "Corded Nordic" overall, which are bullshit in other ways).

Also, this Scottish guy is a pigmented version of the idealized "Hallstatt Nordic":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gID0cMDS1Sc

There are very few South West Europeans that look like that.

[Immanenz]

No, it proves the Hallstatt Nordic phenotype is bullshit, atleast the southern Swedish "refugia" of it. Southern Swedes have 0 to noise level, less than 2% admixture from these Hallstatt samples. They are completely unrelated as far as post Iron Age admixture is concerned(which is what the "Hallstatt Nordic" phenotype is supposed to reflect, I'm not talking about "Nordic" or "Corded Nordic"

Also, this Scottish guy is a pigmented version of the idealized "Hallstatt Nordic":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gID0cMDS1Sc

There are very few South West Europeans that look like that.

Problem with those "phenotypes" is they are partially (or almost absolutley) subjective . Norb or the German user SilverLiming would never say that the Scot looks like a dark haired Hallstatt either, while others would agree with you.

[XenophobicPrussian]

The Austrians are SW Euro like, but the Czech Iron Age is North French like! There's a turnip for the books (although the two previous Hallstatt samples from Cze were divided, one North French like, one SW Euro like).

Averages:

Distance to: AUT_IA_La_Tene
0.01878363 French_Auvergne
0.02107609 Spanish_Barcelones
0.02113828 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02252736 French_Occitanie
0.02340511 French_Provence
0.02344695 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.02374514 Swiss_French
0.02376993 Spanish_Girona
0.02398743 Spanish_Mallorca
0.02408162 Spanish_Lleida
0.02418693 Spanish_Penedes
0.02423595 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.02466524 Italian_Northeast
0.02482884 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.02523660 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.02557335 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.02658093 Spanish_Baleares
0.02677327 Italian_Veneto
0.02748863 Spanish_Menorca
0.02769109 Swiss_German

Distance to: CZE_IA_Hallstatt
0.02092513 French_Nord
0.02108294 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.02150384 French_Alsace
0.02286985 Belgian
0.02343261 Swiss_German
0.02423916 German
0.02547487 French_Paris
0.02618110 Austrian
0.02682101 French_Occitanie
0.02864765 French_Brittany
0.02926698 French_Seine-Maritime
0.02932735 French_Auvergne
0.03066725 Afrikaner
0.03177259 Welsh
0.03264466 Swiss_French
0.03454600 English_Cornwall
0.03462913 English
0.03606177 Dutch
0.03759427 Hungarian
0.03798577 Orcadian


Distance to: CZE_IA_La_Tene
0.01703564 French_Brittany
0.01707957 Belgian
0.01735262 German
0.01736496 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.01768133 French_Nord
0.02087601 French_Alsace
0.02089861 Welsh
0.02232584 Afrikaner
0.02268327 French_Paris
0.02329333 Swiss_German
0.02338399 English
0.02393348 English_Cornwall
0.02540834 Austrian
0.02568672 Dutch
0.02608495 French_Seine-Maritime
0.02668538 Orcadian
0.02692942 Scottish
0.02951681 French_Occitanie
0.03040330 Danish
0.03070091 Irish
0.03313495 French_Auvergne
0.03355894 Shetlandic
0.03483891 Norwegian
0.03580252 German_East
0.03644517 Icelandic

Distance to: CZE_IA_La_Tene_Hallstatt
0.03467321 French_Pas-de-Calais
0.03589264 Swiss_French
0.03691070 French_Auvergne
0.03766178 French_Paris
0.03771456 French_Occitanie
0.03869517 French_Nord
0.03921399 Swiss_German
0.03981303 French_Alsace
0.04057829 Belgian
0.04151222 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04284376 French_Provence
0.04360273 Spanish_Soria
0.04370043 Spanish_Penedes
0.04452110 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.04472238 Spanish_Girona
0.04477058 Austrian
0.04530433 German
0.04619204 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04665426 Spanish_Castello
0.04674797 French_Brittany
0.04721220 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.04729474 Spanish_Mallorca
0.04763911 Spanish_Lleida
0.04779536 French_Seine-Maritime
0.04780505 Italian_Northeast
The Czech Iron Age is a melting pot and a genetic sink, not a source of anything.

Distance to: CZE_IA_La_Tene:I13780
0.03285275 Swedish
0.03704262 Slovakian
0.03705647 Czech
0.03765141 Norwegian
0.03873985 Dutch
0.03954948 German
0.03959802 Danish
0.03960379 German_East
0.03960792 Icelandic
0.04368165 Shetlandic

Distance to: CZE_IA_Hallstatt:I16088
0.02816496 Austrian
0.03419835 German
0.03518796 French_Alsace
0.03524425 French_Nord
0.03537720 Hungarian
0.03602666 Belgian
0.03677962 Swiss_German
0.03741044 Slovenian
0.03860204 German_East
0.03866765 Croatian

Distance to: CZE_IA_Hallstatt:I16326
0.03651277 German_East
0.03713256 German
0.03838039 Swedish
0.04052483 Czech
0.04052720 Danish
0.04109718 Dutch
0.04158939 Orcadian
0.04216045 Welsh
0.04275086 Austrian
0.04364335 English


They have admixture from these exotic Vekerburg culture Slovaks(Vekerburg culture related to both Hallstatt and Scythian)=

Native post-Scythian Pannonian plain/Balkan people:

Distance to: SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I12097
0.04449924 French_Corsica
0.05161123 Italian_Apulia
0.05164338 Italian_Tuscany
0.05188323 Italian_Umbria
0.05291708 Italian_Abruzzo
0.05321900 Greek_Thessaly
0.05402639 Sicilian_East
0.05476596 Greek_Peloponnese
0.05491100 Italian_Piedmont
0.05512958 Sicilian_West


Distance to: SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I11722
0.03693962 French_Corsica
0.04346166 Italian_Tuscany
0.04377654 Italian_Umbria
0.04637001 Italian_Abruzzo
0.04708682 Italian_Apulia
0.04798035 Italian_Piedmont
0.04883429 Italian_Bergamo
0.04962104 Italian_Basilicata
0.05022925 Greek_Peloponnese
0.05027288 Greek_Thessaly

Heavily mixed with pre-Slavic/proto-Slavic assimilated into Scythian culture:

Distance to: SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I12106
0.03204567 Czech
0.03209507 German_East
0.03216908 Polish
0.03226950 Swedish
0.03866973 Ukrainian
0.03882313 Slovakian
0.04040768 Russian_Voronez
0.04078868 Danish
0.04129155 Russian_Orel
0.04246439 Russian_Smolensk

and of course, you had your migrants from the Celtic core even in Slovakia as you did in Czechia. None of this is simple genetic variation, the distances are too large, these are very recent different populations/mixes.

Distance to: SVK_IA_Vekerzug:I12110
0.03668440 French_Occitanie
0.03685514 French_Auvergne
0.03722190 Spanish_Barcelones
0.04115188 Swiss_German
0.04165162 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.04193179 Swiss_French
0.04241241 French_South
0.04289896 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04332976 French_Alsace
0.04347050 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige

[Norb]

Problem with those "phenotypes" is they are partially (or almost absolutley) subjective . Norb or the German user SilverLiming would never say that the Scot looks like a dark haired Hallstatt either, while others would agree with you.

Anglo-Saxon actually

[J.S.]

No shit, but how much are they descended from proto-Celts?

Don't you know in France, there are academics who claims, in the mainstream media, that Gauls did not exist, they have been taylormade by Cesar and that Modern French have no Gaulish ancestry.

[Peterski]

I don't have time now to address every point by XP but I just want to say that Austrian Hallstatt and La Tene was as much of a genetic sink as Czech Hallstatt and La Tene. Because Hallstatt and La Tene were simply not Proto-Celtic cultures. You have to look for Proto-Celts in the Bronze Age, not in the Iron Age.

Even the migration of Celts which replaced 50% of the population in the British Isles (Patterson 2021 study) took place before the emergence of Hallstatt and La Tene cultures.

[tipirneni]

Apart from those, There are high EEF groups which have different profile altogether who have Levant like mtDNA , K1a etc... and some more ancient Steppe mix

Target: Scotland_C_EBA_highEEF_low_res:I2413___BC_1986___C overage_8.18%
Distance: 2.9202% / 0.02920232
24.2 DEU_Tollense_BA
19.8 Scotland_LIA
19.0 DNK_BA
8.8 Levant_Megiddo_MLBA
7.8 VK2020_Faroes_EM
4.6 RUS_Fatyanovo_Tver_BA
3.0 ZAF_2100BP
2.8 ITA_Daunian
2.8 TUR_Catalhoyuk_N_Ceramic
2.6 CMR_Shum_Laka_3000BP
2.6 PER_Laramate_900BP
0.8 SRB_Iron_Gates_HG
0.6 ITA_Etruscan_Casenovole
0.6 Wales_Meso

http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~wrhurst/mtdna-k/sykeskmap.jpg

https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/ewan-mcgregor-3.jpg
https://www.scotland.org/images/uploads/general/Gerard_Butler_1.jpg
These Levant and Italy_C mixed EEF samples in UK, might be ancient Galatia people who went back to Ireland after fall during Roman era
https://alchetron.com/cdn/galatia-108ae0c7-d590-4a67-bd95-cb9e9aa6c5f-resize-750.png