If Europe should have a lingua franca that was NOT English, should it be French, German or Russian?

[Tooting Carmen]

What is interesting is that, ever since the EU expanded eastwards in 2004, there has thus been a shift away from French in favour of German as being Europe's second most-learnt/used language after English. As for Russian, needless to say it has collapsed in importance since the break-up of the USSR, but were Russia to become more powerful (economically, militarily and especially culturally) again, would it see a revival in interest elsewhere?

[Tooting Carmen]

Anyone?

[miruna99]

French

This would be the strongest candidate: the only other language to have enjoyed the status of global lingua franca in modern history; still remains the official language of most world organisations; has, by far, the greatest cultural capital; and would be more accessible to Spaniards and Italians who have the lowest levels of English on the continent.


German

I would have to challenge your assertion and say German is firmly in 4th place in terms of foreign languages learned in Europe (plenty of data out there to support this). This is partly due to native German speakers having such high levels of English proficiency.

Those newer EU members in Eastern Europe have far higher levels of English than Spain or Italy.

The idea that, say, a Spaniard and a Finn would use German to communicate with one another seems very far-fetched.


Russian

No chance. English has replaced it as the lingua franca in the Baltics and is well on its way to do the same even in the former SSRs of Central Asia and, especially, the Caucasus. Less said about Ukraine the better.

As for cultural influence, forget it. Russia is in the same boat as Japan; a former world power that faces huge internal pressures from a terminally aging and shrinking population. The only Europeans who would learn either language are those with a niche interest or who plan on living there for an extended period of time.


Conclusion

The reality is that English hasn't even peaked yet in its role of global lingua franca which sounds scary. The internet and, in particular, social media will only cement and deepen its current status. If Europe were to implement a different lingua franca, it would simply be the de jure language with English remaining the de facto language.

[Tooting Carmen]

French

This would be the strongest candidate: the only other language to have enjoyed the status of global lingua franca in modern history; still remains the official language of most world organisations; has, by far, the greatest cultural capital; and would be more accessible to Spaniards and Italians who have the lowest levels of English on the continent.

Good points.



German

I would have to challenge your assertion and say German is firmly in 4th place in terms of foreign languages learned in Europe (plenty of data out there to support this). This is partly due to native German speakers having such high levels of English proficiency.

Those newer EU members in Eastern Europe have far higher levels of English than Spain or Italy.

The idea that, say, a Spaniard and a Finn would use German to communicate with one another seems very far-fetched.

Look up the Eurobarometer surveys, and you'll see that most Accession countries (bar Romania, which has always had a special relationship with France) speak and study German much more than French.


Russian

No chance. English has replaced it as the lingua franca in the Baltics and is well on its way to do the same even in the former SSRs of Central Asia and, especially, the Caucasus. Less said about Ukraine the better.

The large Russian minorities may have something to say about that, and I thought Russian still has co-official status in many of those countries and is thus learnt even by non-Russians?


As for cultural influence, forget it. Russia is in the same boat as Japan; a former world power that faces huge internal pressures from a terminally aging and shrinking population. The only Europeans who would learn either language are those with a niche interest or who plan on living there for an extended period of time.

'Terminally ageing and shrinking' are problems throughout the Global North, only that those two are (for now) especially extreme cases.


Conclusion

The reality is that English hasn't even peaked yet in its role of global lingua franca which sounds scary. The internet and, in particular, social media will only cement and deepen its current status. If Europe were to implement a different lingua franca, it would simply be the de jure language with English remaining the de facto language.

Maybe what you say is true at European level, but globally Spanish, Mandarin and to an extent French (mostly due to Africa) and Arabic are challenging the hegemony of English on the internet and the media.

[Incal]

None of those. Should be Italian, if Europe wants to pay respect to their origins. If they want to be practical though, maybe Swedish.

[CordedWhelp]

Komi

[TheMaestro]

Italiano, best language in the world

[Zohor]

So you were basing choice of second lingua franca on what is learnt in schools as second foreign language? This is kind of weird cause students(I am basing only on my point of view and people I know) usually don't focus much on learning second language. Also I was taught Russian and it is not the only case, there are other high schools in my area where you could learn Russian as second foreign language. It's weird you didn't mention Spanish, it's also commonly learnt as it is second most commonly used Indo-European language after English all over the world.

Also if not English then I guess it would be language of world hegemon, English got more widespread when USA got a superpower after WWII. Nowadays it would take much effort to design again versions for codes in other languages than English. What I want to say is that the chance that English will not be lingua franca are very low. In case if really English would not be lingua franca, then it would be sensible to pick a language which is the closest to English, but as the world usualy follows superpowers then there is high chance for Chinese to go through, or maybe it's simplified version like written with Latin alphabet, or even "Chinglish" version.

Out of these three Russian has the least chance since it uses another alphabet

[Tooting Carmen]

So you were basing choice of second lingua franca on what is learnt in schools as second foreign language? This is kind of weird cause students(I am basing only on my point of view and people I know) usually don't focus much on learning second language.

That was one criteria but by no means the only one. I was also thinking about population sizes and the prestige (or lack thereof) of countries where different languages are spoken.


It's weird you didn't mention Spanish, it's also commonly learnt as it is second most commonly used Indo-European language after English all over the world.

In a way, yes, but strictly within Europe it very much takes a backseat compared to both English and the three OP options.


Also if not English then I guess it would be language of world hegemon, English got more widespread when USA got a superpower after WWII. Nowadays it would take much effort to design again versions for codes in other languages than English. What I want to say is that the chance that English will not be lingua franca are very low. In case if really English would not be lingua franca, then it would be sensible to pick a language which is the closest to English, but as the world usualy follows superpowers then there is high chance for Chinese to go through, or maybe it's simplified version like written with Latin alphabet, or even "Chinglish" version.

Yeah I wonder if people are actually gonna start taking Mandarin seriously?


Out of these three Russian has the least chance since it uses another alphabet

A banal excuse.

[Dušan]

None of those. Should be Italian, if Europe wants to pay respect to their origins. If they want to be practical though, maybe Swedish.


Italiano, best language in the world

I agree with Italian.
It is way better than English.

Yet English is better than German and French.

[Ouistreham]

For personal reasons I'd like it to be French — but honestly, it should be German:
• There are (or there have been) German speaking minorities in almost every European country (even in Iberia if you consider the Balearic Islands!).
• As a consequence the Germans are much more familiar to all neighbouring cultures that the other way round.
• The German culture area is consequently the real centre of gravity of Europe.
• Though religious factors are nowadays much less critical than they used to be, is'nt it very significant that Greater Germany is the only major culture equally divided between Catholics and Protestants?

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

You pretty much answer your own question when you say "lingua franca."

I, of course, prefer Esperanto.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=accFmyaOj7o

The language of angels.

[JamesBond007]

Anyone?

Normand d'oïl !

Normans were once a ruling class throughout Europe even down to Sicily If I remember correctly and they conquered England so that the courts in England were once not in the English language.

[wvwvw]

It should be Spanish simply because Spanish the easiest language to learn for all Europeans, it also doesn’t sound bad.

[B01AB20]

For personal reasons I'd like it to be French — but honestly, it should be German:
• There are (or there have been) German speaking minorities in almost every European country (even in Iberia if you consider the Balearic Islands!).
• As a consequence the Germans are much more familiar to all neighbouring cultures that the other way round.
• The German culture area is consequently the real centre of gravity of Europe.
• Though religious factors are nowadays much less critical than they used to be, is'nt it very significant that Greater Germany is the only major culture equally divided between Catholics and Protestants?

Only a 'but'.

French and German are terribly difficult to learn.
French must be the most difficult romance language, and German the most difficult germanic language.

[Gredos]

can never be german due to lack of latin influence, making it very difficult to learn

An example, take a snippet from a recent news article in the most important languages :



Scientists have been planning this mission since 1989. It was supposed to launch between 2007 and 2011. But the telescope was more difficult and costly than anyone expected.

Les scientifiques planifient cette mission depuis 1989. Elle devait être lancée entre 2007 et 2011. Mais le télescope était plus difficile et plus coûteux que prévu.

Los científicos han estado planeando esta misión desde 1989. Se suponía que se lanzaría entre 2007 y 2011. Pero el telescopio fue más difícil y costoso de lo que nadie esperaba.

Gli scienziati hanno pianificato questa missione dal 1989. Doveva essere lanciata tra il 2007 e il 2011. Ma il telescopio era più difficile e costoso di quanto chiunque si aspettasse.

Wissenschaftler planen diese Mission seit 1989. Sie sollte zwischen 2007 und 2011 starten. Aber das Teleskop war schwieriger und kostspieliger als erwartet.


Wissenschaftler, schwieriger, kostspieliger...., german has a lot of very difficult words

so it should be French due to its centrality in Europe, however due to the fact that Spanish is more widespread in America, and increasingly so in Asia, it could be better in the future



(I don't understand the joke about including Russian)

[black hole]

The map must be like this


https://i.ibb.co/0Q744dB/Europe-blank-map-Copy.png




dark red: French
blue: German
green: Russian

[Hithaeglir]

French or Spanish.

[Cristiano viejo]

It should be Spanish, the most speaking European language in the world.

[Roy]

French, because it is the most aesthetic one, and I am the esthete. Also it's the one I understand the best.

[Ruggery]

It should be Spanish simply because Spanish the easiest language to learn for all Europeans, it also doesn’t sound bad.

I don't think that Spanish is the most difficult language to learn but that it is easy for all Europeans is relative, it will be easy for a French, Italian or even English, but for a Swedish, a German, or a Pole I don't think so. be so easy

[Östsvensk]

I see only way of settling the question. Everyone should be as polyglot as Indiana Jones:


https://youtu.be/ubetfj_QhQ8

[Nurzat]

we should all learn Chinese, Korean or Japanese, honestly

[PhenotypeMaster]

we should all learn Chinese, Korean or Japanese, honestly

Those countries are already very familiar with English, so no need.

[Creoda]

You don't choose the lingua franca, it chooses you. The only way English will be surpassed as the lingua franca is the collapse of the West or cultural conquest by an alien force, either the Chinese or Muslims, enforcing Arabic. But with the Chinese you get the sense they don't even really want foreigners to speak their language, that they'd be happy to let their Western slaves keep communicating in English while they talk ching chong above their heads. The 3rd long shot alternative would be Spanish becoming the dominant language of the US, and the lingua franca by extension of continued US cultural domination. But it would probably be some mongrelised Spanglish instead, and US hegemony would be even more unlikely at that point. I suppose Russian would also be in the discussion if they are still standing after the West falls.

[Tooting Carmen]

Those countries are already very familiar with English, so no need.

They aren't actually - especially outside their big cities, the level of English in them is actually pretty low.

[Ruggery]

You don't choose the lingua franca, it chooses you. The only way English will be surpassed as the lingua franca is the collapse of the West or cultural conquest by an alien force, either the Chinese or Muslims, enforcing Arabic. But with the Chinese you get the sense they don't even really want foreigners to speak their language, that they'd be happy to let their Western slaves keep communicating in English while they talk ching chong above their heads. The 3rd long shot alternative would be Spanish becoming the dominant language of the US, and the lingua franca by extension of continued US cultural domination. But it would probably be some mongrelised Spanglish instead, and US hegemony would be even more unlikely at that point. I suppose Russian would also be in the discussion if they are still standing after the West falls.


Do you really see that as a possibility?I think that this would be more possible in the event that Spain is a world economic power in Europe, it would help a lot. Like the UK, it helps a lot with English in Europe and Asia.

[Creoda]

Do you really see that as a possibility?
Not really, but these are the only options that are even theoretically possible to dislodge English.

[TheMaestro]

fixed, Polish

[Chron]

None of the above, the correct answer is Latin

[Ouistreham]

It should be Spanish, the most speaking European language in the world.

The fact that Spanish has become a predominantly non-European language just prevents it from playing any significant role on the European continent.

The same for European Portuguese, which is just an obscure Brazilian dialect no one can understand, which happens to be spoken in a small peripheral Iberian province.

[catgeorge]

The only non barbarian language where dazzling literature is written is Greek.

[NSXD60]

Louisiana French which is not saddled with Euro French's hock-a-loogie "R".

[Colonel Frank Grimes]

The fact that Spanish has become a predominantly non-European language just prevents it from playing any significant role on the European continent.

The same for European Portuguese, which is just an obscure Brazilian dialect no one can understand, which happens to be spoken in a small peripheral Iberian province.

Although I disagree with CV your response doesn't make any sense (at this point from my observations of your recent posts it's expected that you don't make any sense). That millions of non-Whites speak a specific European language is irrelevant to Europeans speaking it among themselves to further a better understanding between each other in business, casual conversation, etc. The purpose of a lingua franca is practicality. Whether it's French, German, or Russian it would depend on which has the most economic power, which is why the English language is the actual lingua franca of not only Europe but the world.

[B01AB20]

You pretty much answer your own question when you say "lingua franca."

I, of course, prefer Esperanto.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=accFmyaOj7o

The language of angels.

I expected to understand a lot, but I've understood a shit.
It sounds a bit like italian, a bit like french, a bit like portuguese... weird.

[Cristiano viejo]

The fact that Spanish has become a predominantly non-European language just prevents it from playing any significant role on the European continent.

The same for European Portuguese, which is just an obscure Brazilian dialect no one can understand, which happens to be spoken in a small peripheral Iberian province.

Are you sure you are talking about Spanish and not about French?

[Tooting Carmen]

bump

[Jana]

None of these, only classical Latin shall apply, at least for western Christians. Most magnificent language there is and true ode to Europe.

[Batman_]

Spanish, Italian or French so I can learn a new language. I already speak German and English.

[Batman_]

Or maybe Dutch

[Batman_]

I'd go for Dutch, Italian or French.

[Andullero]

What is interesting is that, ever since the EU expanded eastwards in 2004, there has thus been a shift away from French in favour of German as being Europe's second most-learnt/used language after English. As for Russian, needless to say it has collapsed in importance since the break-up of the USSR, but were Russia to become more powerful (economically, militarily and especially culturally) again, would it see a revival in interest elsewhere?

Bring back good ole Latin, nuff' said.

[PAGANE]

Russian, because the Slavs are the majority as a total population