Classify BMAC reconstructions from Central Asia

[Kaazi]

BMAC are simply an extension of goat herders and farmers from ancient Iran into Central Asia.

Geoksiur
Age: Bronze Age
Genetic Group: BMAC
Period: 5000-4000 BP

https://res.cloudinary.com/ancestralwhispers/image/upload/c_fill,fl_lossy,w_1500/v1/fulls/UPDATE_BMACRecon_bl42ln

Khapuz Tepe
Age: Bronze Age
Genetic Group: BMAC
Period: 4700-4000 BP
https://res.cloudinary.com/ancestralwhispers/image/upload/c_fill,fl_lossy,w_1500/v1/fulls/BMACRecon_svik5h

[miruna99]

Mountain Indid

[Kaazi]

Mountain Indid

No way. They look Iranian or Afghan or some kind of West Asian.

[Petalpusher]

It would be interesting to morph those with some EHG reconstruction and check if they look remotely like the Steppe ones

[Hektor12]

First looks like blend of Cromagnons and Australoids, looks Indian or lets say Euro-Gypsy.

Second looks pred.Med and perhaps mixed with Taurids a little bit. Rather Irano-Afghan, doesnt look South Asian.

[Zoro]

Interesting. Top one most common in India. Bottom most common in Pakistani Pashtun

[Avicenna]

This is bs imo

[Tongio]

Octoroons, only take the african % and replace it with ancient south indian.

[Avicenna]

Octoroons, only take the african % and replace it with ancient south indian.

Bmac don't have ancient south Indian however .

Does anyone have a population model of BMAC samples from the recent sites in Gonur depe , tappali and dzharkutan?

Southern pashtuns are very rich in BMAC


https://youtu.be/rKmd9UfYHYM

[Kyp]

First one looks like Proto-Iranid + Indid
Second guy looks Gracile Indid + Med

[Tongio]

Bmac don't have ancient south Indian however .

Does anyone have a population model of BMAC samples from the recent sites in Gonur depe , tappali and dzharkutan?

Southern pashtuns are very rich in BMAC


https://youtu.be/rKmd9UfYHYM

By "classifing" i understand simply saying what they look like, not really breaking down their genetics.

[Immanenz]

Bmac don't have ancient south Indian however .

Does anyone have a population model of BMAC samples from the recent sites in Gonur depe , tappali and dzharkutan?

Southern pashtuns are very rich in BMAC



thats the problem of the morphs imo, they look to most people here as a pheno that would be Paki/North indian passable.

[Avicenna]

thats the problem of the morphs imo, they look to most people here as a pheno that would be Paki/North indian passable.

Which for me that doesn't make sense since those populations for the most part completley lack BMAC

[Immanenz]

Which for me that doesn't make sense since those populations for the most part completley lack BMAC

well, the question is why did he choose this type of morph for BMAC, i think the only answer would be to ask the creator for the reasons behind it.

[Avicenna]

well, the question is why did he choose this type of morph for BMAC, i think the only answer would be to ask the creator for the reasons behind it.

As always trying to darkwash my people , I've gotten to the point where im used to it now . Like I posted before , I believe southern pashtuns like kandaharis have the highest amount of BMAC and they don't look like the morph . Atleast not in pigmentation although the face doesnt seem famillar either .

[Babak]

Wtf lol no way. BMAC pop looked mostly like pashtuns imo. These look very SI.

[Token]

Most morphs made by this guy end up looking totally or partly South Asian, even those of early Indo-Europeans and European HGs. There's obviously something going on here.

[Avicenna]

Wtf lol no way. BMAC pop looked mostly like pashtuns imo. These look very SI.

Southern pashtuns like kandaharis to be precise . Heck even when living in the harsh desert climate of Helmand province they don't look SI like those morphs wtf lol?!

https://i.ibb.co/HzjNYY0/Koppen-Geiger-Map-AFG-present-svg.png (https://imgbb.com/)
instagram hd image download (https://500pxdownload.com/)

https://i.ibb.co/G2Zb0Xf/Screenshot-20220117-190214-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/Snk9P2D)
https://i.ibb.co/ynp9V9C/Screenshot-20220117-185815-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/bgF070V)
https://i.ibb.co/VDdnb09/Screenshot-20220117-185509-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/GkXYGfp)
https://i.ibb.co/tY5mwLc/Screenshot-20220117-190312-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/dkyWsm6)
https://i.ibb.co/ccKXhTN/Screenshot-20220117-185540-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/gMbFZgD)
https://i.ibb.co/j6PrqnV/Screenshot-20220117-190908.jpg (https://ibb.co/qy3rhT0)
https://i.ibb.co/9NDQR58/Screenshot-20220117-185526-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/80C1FZK)
https://i.ibb.co/M1rbmbF/Screenshot-20220117-185707-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/Zg5303q)
https://i.ibb.co/K7SWnrX/Screenshot-20220117-191122.jpg (https://ibb.co/P40gk6N)
https://i.ibb.co/Dp9jwwH/Screenshot-20220117-185546-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/m89PhhV)
https://i.ibb.co/MN8V6Hm/Screenshot-20220117-185726-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/5cY8F3P)
https://i.ibb.co/cQMh3jH/Screenshot-20220117-185720-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/kXk2Btf)
https://i.ibb.co/SRzymcf/Screenshot-20220117-185803-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/6gkwt8X)

[Avicenna]

No way. They look Iranian or Afghan or some kind of West Asian.

They really don't . If you told me these were facial reconstructions of IVC folk I would believe it

[Zoro]

Wtf lol no way. BMAC pop looked mostly like pashtuns imo. These look very SI.

Actually we shouldn’t think of BMAC people of 4500 years ago as Indo-Iranic such as Pashtun, Tajik, Kurd, Persian because they predated ethnogenesis of Indo-Iranics just like those Iran-CHl in the Zagros.

Pashtuns, Tajiks, Kurds, Persians were born later when these type of people mixed with Aryans such as Andronovo and their Scythian and Parthian descendants with layers of Turkic added later.

These morphs would represent mostly Iran-Chl people with some local mixtures which included ASI. In fact it seems that considerable ASI was found as far west as Shahr-e-Sukhteh in Sistan Iran

Yaz culture was later and more similar to the present Indo-Iranics

[Kaazi]

Octoroons, only take the african % and replace it with ancient south indian.

These are among early BMAC sites. The most AASI shifted was from UZB_Bustan_BA at 4% which is a late BMAC site. Ive not modeled them but likely nil/negligible AASI in them.


Which for me that doesn't make sense since those populations for the most part completley lack BMAC

NW South Asia obviously scores a significant amount of BMAC between 20-40% range. The Sikh average is 25% BMAC.

But I can get the gist, the base ancestry for Pashtuns and Dards is BMAC. And it increases towards Western Pashtuns/North Balochistan.


Wtf lol no way. BMAC pop looked mostly like pashtuns imo. These look very SI.


They really don't . If you told me these were facial reconstructions of IVC folk I would believe it

Wtf SI. No way, they look like South Indians or Mountain Indids lol. These are not even blending in fringe Northern South Asia feature wise imo.

Do they resemble Balochi/Brahui who are slightly dark Iranics??

[Avicenna]

These are among early BMAC sites. The most AASI shifted was from UZB_Bustan_BA at 4% which is a late BMAC site. Ive not modeled them but likely nil/negligible AASI in them.



NW South Asia obviously scores a significant amount of BMAC between 20-40% range. The Sikh average is 25% BMAC.

But I can get the gist, the base ancestry for Pashtuns and Dards is BMAC. And it increases towards Western Pashtuns/North Balochistan.





Wtf SI. No way, they look like South Indians or Mountain Indids lol. These are not even blending in fringe Northern South Asia feature wise imo.

Do they resemble Balochi/Brahui who are slightly dark Iranics??

Why wouldn't they resemble early IVC folks who are pred Iranian neoithic? Not sure regarding balochis or brahuis but I think southern pashtuns are BMAC rich not balochis ? Although not too sure about that actually .

[Avicenna]

Actually we shouldn’t think of BMAC people of 4500 years ago as Indo-Iranic such as Pashtun, Tajik, Kurd, Persian because they predated ethnogenesis of Indo-Iranics just like those Iran-CHl in the Zagros.

Pashtuns, Tajiks, Kurds, Persians were born later when these type of people mixed with Aryans such as Andronovo and their Scythian and Parthian descendants with layers of Turkic added later.

These morphs would represent mostly Iran-Chl people with some local mixtures which included ASI. In fact it seems that considerable ASI was found as far west as Shahr-e-Sukhteh in Sistan Iran

Yaz culture was later and more similar to the present Indo-Iranics

That is true actually although if you think about it pashtuns also score decent amounts of IVC , so in a way the steppe and ivc cancel each other out .

[Zoro]

That is true actually although if you think about it pashtuns also score decent amounts of IVC , so in a way the steppe and ivc cancel each other out .

So we can think of present day Pashtuns, Baloch, Kurd, Tajik, Persian as sitting on a cline of BMAC or Iran-Chl on one end with the least Steppe admixed Pashtuns and Indians resembling the morphs and the most Steppe admixed such as some types of Pamiri Tajiks being on the Andronovo/Scythian/Sintashta end with minority BMAC and majority Steppe

Sikhs are a little complicated story

[Avicenna]

So we can think of present day Pashtuns, Baloch, Kurd, Tajik, Persian as sitting on a cline of BMAC or Iran-Chl on one end with the least Steppe admixed Pashtuns and Indians resembling the morphs and the most Steppe admixed such as some types of Pamiri Tajiks being on the Andronovo/Scythian/Sintashta end with minority BMAC and majority Steppe

But how would you explain the phenotypes of southern pashtuns who have the most BMAC and least steppe yet don't look anything like those morphs ?

Those morphs imo are bs man , they look Indian .

[Zoro]

But how would you explain the phenotypes of southern pashtuns who have the most BMAC and least steppe yet don't look anything like those morphs ?

Even the least admixed Pashtuns still have significant Indo-Iranic admixture compared to those 4500 year old BMAC morphs. This said I actually have seen some Pashtuns like the bottom morph more towards Peshawar though . I think both eastern and southern Pashtuns have the most BMAC and IVC related which varies by family.

I think Kandahar and Quetta have the more recent West Iranic admixture from Baloch/Kurd types than eastern Pashtuns.

In Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran its easy to be dark pigmented unless you have alot of ENF or Steppe related admixture

[Kyp]

Wtf lol no way. BMAC pop looked mostly like pashtuns imo. These look very SI.

Pashtuns have significant Steppe ancestry, which BMAC lacks for the most part

[Babak]

These are among early BMAC sites. The most AASI shifted was from UZB_Bustan_BA at 4% which is a late BMAC site. Ive not modeled them but likely nil/negligible AASI in them.



NW South Asia obviously scores a significant amount of BMAC between 20-40% range. The Sikh average is 25% BMAC.

But I can get the gist, the base ancestry for Pashtuns and Dards is BMAC. And it increases towards Western Pashtuns/North Balochistan.





Wtf SI. No way, they look like South Indians or Mountain Indids lol. These are not even blending in fringe Northern South Asia feature wise imo.

Do they resemble Balochi/Brahui who are slightly dark Iranics??

Not even baluchis tbh, but these recons dont look off imo

[Avicenna]

Pashtuns have significant Steppe ancestry, which BMAC lacks for the most part

Whatever the case , these reconstructions are just that . Reconstructions , I wouldn't read too much into it imo. These models look way dark for what I thought the BMAC would have looked like

[Avicenna]

Even the least admixed Pashtuns still have significant Indo-Iranic admixture compared to those 4500 year old BMAC morphs. This said I actually have seen some Pashtuns like the bottom morph more towards Peshawar though . I think both eastern and southern Pashtuns have the most BMAC and IVC related which varies by family.

I think Kandahar and Quetta have the more recent West Iranic admixture from Baloch/Kurd types than eastern Pashtuns.

In Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran its easy to be dark pigmented unless you have alot of ENF or Steppe related admixture

Eastern pashtuns as in Pak pashtuns or eastern pashtuns as in those from paktia / khost etc?

If it's the latter then those pashtuns score the highest steppe followed by pashtuns inhabiting the central plains of the Hindu Kush , not sure about Pak pashtuns but those from waziristan / ormuris are very similar to paktia / khost pashtuns . Southern pashtuns have the least steppe and highest BMAC .

[Human10101]

I don’t really take any of these reconstructions and morphs seriously… I don’t take any of the g25 stuff seriously either. People take these things way to seriously. Might be interesting, but at the end of the day should all be taken with a grain of salt

[Avicenna]

Even the least admixed Pashtuns still have significant Indo-Iranic admixture compared to those 4500 year old BMAC morphs. This said I actually have seen some Pashtuns like the bottom morph more towards Peshawar though . I think both eastern and southern Pashtuns have the most BMAC and IVC related which varies by family.

I think Kandahar and Quetta have the more recent West Iranic admixture from Baloch/Kurd types than eastern Pashtuns.

In Pakistan, Afghanistan, Iran its easy to be dark pigmented unless you have alot of ENF or Steppe related admixture

I don't think I've ever seen an Afghan pashtun like those morphs . They give me IVC vibes , many Indus pakistanis have a look very similar to OP.

[Human10101]

I don't think I've ever seen an Afghan pashtun like those morphs . They give me IVC vibes , many Indus pakistanis have a look very similar to OP.

I agree. These morphs do not look like the average Afghan Pashtun I have seen. Though as mentioned previously, many Pashtuns from the Pakistani areas can look similar to the morphs though.

[Avicenna]

I agree. These morphs do not look like the average Afghan Pashtun I have seen. Though as mentioned previously, many Pashtuns from the Pakistani areas can look similar to the morphs though.

Even then it's a stretch and that doesn't really mean much since those who do resemble the morphs typically have some sort of recent ancestry from the Indus basin . But pure BMAC looking like that? Nah man, I don't believe it . People can call me owd all they want idgaf .

[Human10101]

Even then it's a stretch and that doesn't really mean much since those who do resemble the morphs typically have some sort of recent ancestry from the Indus basin . But pure BMAC looking like that? Nah man, I don't believe it . People can call me owd all they want idgaf .

I agree with you bro, I don’t believe BMAC people looked like that. I just mentioned as a side note that some Pak Pashtuns can have a look similar to the bottom morph. But I agree with your main point, which is why I said not to take any of these morphs seriously.

[Thambi]

Which for me that doesn't make sense since those populations for the most part completley lack BMAC

BMAC and SISBA1 are fairly similar. South asians get modelled well with both. BMAC are slightly extra CHG and ANF shifted while the BA1 are slightly Iran_N and AASI shifted. In terms of distances, the BMAC populations are very close.

Target: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
Distance: 2.2942% / 0.02294226
70.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.2 GEO_CHG
8.0 TUR_Barcin_N
5.8 RUS_Tyumen_HG
4.8 AASI

Target: TKM_Gonur1_BA
Distance: 2.6646% / 0.02664597
62.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
14.2 GEO_CHG
13.8 TUR_Barcin_N
7.6 RUS_Tyumen_HG
1.8 AASI

Distance to: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
0.03447873 TKM_Tepe_Anau_En
0.03536314 TKM_Geoksyur_En
0.03564230 TKM_Gonur1_BA
0.03593152 TKM_Geoksyur_N
0.03671759 UZB_Dzharkutan1_BA
0.03783414 TKM_Parkhai_En
0.04086410 TKM_Namazga_Tepe_En
0.04128607 TKM_Parkhai_EBA
0.04178893 UZB_Bustan_En
0.04351117 UZB_Bustan_BA
0.04507501 UZB_Sappali_Tepe_BA
0.05454167 TUR_Alalakh_MLBA_o
0.05524108 IRN_HotuIIIb_Meso
0.05599138 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
0.05722347 UZB_Bustan_BA_o1
0.05746972 TKM_Parkhai_MBA
0.06026779 TKM_Parkhai_LBA
0.06048676 TKM_Namazga_Tepe_En_o
0.06119025 TJK_Sarazm_En
0.06626663 IRN_Tepe_Abdul_Hosein_N
0.06644062 TKM_Sumbar_LBA
0.06753455 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.07190756 UZB_Sappali_Tepe2_BA
0.07195354 TKM_Parkhai_LBA_o
0.07379836 IRN_Seh_Gabi_LN

[Avicenna]

BMAC and SISBA1 are fairly similar. South asians get modelled well with both. BMAC are slightly extra CHG and ANF shifted while the BA1 are slightly Iran_N and AASI shifted. In terms of distances, the BMAC populations are very close.

Target: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
Distance: 2.2942% / 0.02294226
70.2 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
11.2 GEO_CHG
8.0 TUR_Barcin_N
5.8 RUS_Tyumen_HG
4.8 AASI

Target: TKM_Gonur1_BA
Distance: 2.6646% / 0.02664597
62.6 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
14.2 GEO_CHG
13.8 TUR_Barcin_N
7.6 RUS_Tyumen_HG
1.8 AASI

Distance to: IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1
0.03447873 TKM_Tepe_Anau_En
0.03536314 TKM_Geoksyur_En
0.03564230 TKM_Gonur1_BA
0.03593152 TKM_Geoksyur_N
0.03671759 UZB_Dzharkutan1_BA
0.03783414 TKM_Parkhai_En
0.04086410 TKM_Namazga_Tepe_En
0.04128607 TKM_Parkhai_EBA
0.04178893 UZB_Bustan_En
0.04351117 UZB_Bustan_BA
0.04507501 UZB_Sappali_Tepe_BA
0.05454167 TUR_Alalakh_MLBA_o
0.05524108 IRN_HotuIIIb_Meso
0.05599138 IRN_Tepe_Hissar_C
0.05722347 UZB_Bustan_BA_o1
0.05746972 TKM_Parkhai_MBA
0.06026779 TKM_Parkhai_LBA
0.06048676 TKM_Namazga_Tepe_En_o
0.06119025 TJK_Sarazm_En
0.06626663 IRN_Tepe_Abdul_Hosein_N
0.06644062 TKM_Sumbar_LBA
0.06753455 IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N
0.07190756 UZB_Sappali_Tepe2_BA
0.07195354 TKM_Parkhai_LBA_o
0.07379836 IRN_Seh_Gabi_LN

SISBA1 is an early form of IVC correct ? They were Iranian neothiics without admxiture with SAHG . Makes sense for them to be almost identical

[Dunai]

Actually we shouldn’t think of BMAC people of 4500 years ago as Indo-Iranic such as Pashtun, Tajik, Kurd, Persian because they predated ethnogenesis of Indo-Iranics just like those Iran-CHl in the Zagros.

Pashtuns, Tajiks, Kurds, Persians were born later when these type of people mixed with Aryans such as Andronovo and their Scythian and Parthian descendants with layers of Turkic added later.

These morphs would represent mostly Iran-Chl people with some local mixtures which included ASI. In fact it seems that considerable ASI was found as far west as Shahr-e-Sukhteh in Sistan Iran

Yaz culture was later and more similar to the present Indo-Iranics

Absolutely correct, modern day Indo-Iranics are only partially BMAC, not at all representative of how BMAC used to look like. Just the same nobody really objective would ever try to portray the Yamnaya people looking like Modern Slavs or Baltic people. There are thousands of years of difference between today's people and people of prehistory.

[Human10101]

Absolutely correct, modern day Indo-Iranics are only partially BMAC, not at all representative of how BMAC used to look like. Just the same nobody really objective would ever try to portray the Yamnaya people looking like Modern Slavs or Baltic people. There are thousands of years of difference between today's people and people of prehistory.

This is a good point.

[Thambi]

SISBA1 is an early form of IVC correct ? They were Iranian neothiics without admxiture with SAHG . Makes sense for them to be almost identical

Yes correct. I was pointing out that even though the BMAC directly seems to have lower impact on SAs as a whole, the group thats very similar did impact south asia from the IVC. thats what i was trying to get at.

Ideally the closest modern populations to BMAC are balochis/brahuis/makrins as well as bandaris in eastern iran. There's still a decent difference between them and BMAC that needs to be accounted for like additional steppe for example in the modern populations and higher AASI, but they're the closest. If any reference has to be taken for creating the BMAC reconstructions, it has to be the balochis and such. The second one doesnt look too far off for east iranics without the beard. I could see him passing as a pashtun or a balochi.

Closest modern populations to Gonur below. The distance though is somewhat high with 6+.
Distance to: TKM_Gonur1_BA
0.06470588 Balochi_A
0.06768086 Makrani
0.07028616 Brahui
0.07347963 Iranian_Bandari
0.07742086 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.07930122 Balochi_B
0.08871021 Parsi_Pakistan
0.08904062 Parsi_India
0.09841478 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.09874345 Iranian_Fars
0.10040646 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.10127609 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
0.10179580 Kalash
0.10391195 Tarkalani
0.10562550 Iranian_Lor
0.10634604 Uthmankhel
0.10958696 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.10999874 Yusufzai
0.11101037 Tajik_Yagnobi
0.11392108 Kurdish
0.11553018 Ezid
0.11771578 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.11795952 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.11827239 Pashtun_Kurram
0.11986867 Kamboj

[Avicenna]

Yes correct. I was pointing out that even though the BMAC directly seems to have lower impact on SAs as a whole, the group thats very similar did impact south asia from the IVC. thats what i was trying to get at.

Ideally the closest modern populations to BMAC are balochis/brahuis/makrins as well as bandaris in eastern iran. There's still a decent difference between them and BMAC that needs to be accounted for like additional steppe for example in the modern populations and higher AASI, but they're the closest. If any reference has to be taken for creating the BMAC reconstructions, it has to be the balochis and such. The second one doesnt look too far off for east iranics without the beard. I could see him passing as a pashtun or a balochi.

Closest modern populations to Gonur below. The distance though is somewhat high with 6+.
Distance to: TKM_Gonur1_BA
0.06470588 Balochi_A
0.06768086 Makrani
0.07028616 Brahui
0.07347963 Iranian_Bandari
0.07742086 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.07930122 Balochi_B
0.08871021 Parsi_Pakistan
0.08904062 Parsi_India
0.09841478 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.09874345 Iranian_Fars
0.10040646 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.10127609 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
0.10179580 Kalash
0.10391195 Tarkalani
0.10562550 Iranian_Lor
0.10634604 Uthmankhel
0.10958696 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.10999874 Yusufzai
0.11101037 Tajik_Yagnobi
0.11392108 Kurdish
0.11553018 Ezid
0.11771578 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.11795952 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.11827239 Pashtun_Kurram
0.11986867 Kamboj

Could you add a pashtun from Kandahar in that oracle please ?

[Babak]

Yes correct. I was pointing out that even though the BMAC directly seems to have lower impact on SAs as a whole, the group thats very similar did impact south asia from the IVC. thats what i was trying to get at.

Ideally the closest modern populations to BMAC are balochis/brahuis/makrins as well as bandaris in eastern iran. There's still a decent difference between them and BMAC that needs to be accounted for like additional steppe for example in the modern populations and higher AASI, but they're the closest. If any reference has to be taken for creating the BMAC reconstructions, it has to be the balochis and such. The second one doesnt look too far off for east iranics without the beard. I could see him passing as a pashtun or a balochi.

Closest modern populations to Gonur below. The distance though is somewhat high with 6+.
Distance to: TKM_Gonur1_BA
0.06470588 Balochi_A
0.06768086 Makrani
0.07028616 Brahui
0.07347963 Iranian_Bandari
0.07742086 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.07930122 Balochi_B
0.08871021 Parsi_Pakistan
0.08904062 Parsi_India
0.09841478 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.09874345 Iranian_Fars
0.10040646 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.10127609 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
0.10179580 Kalash
0.10391195 Tarkalani
0.10562550 Iranian_Lor
0.10634604 Uthmankhel
0.10958696 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.10999874 Yusufzai
0.11101037 Tajik_Yagnobi
0.11392108 Kurdish
0.11553018 Ezid
0.11771578 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.11795952 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.11827239 Pashtun_Kurram
0.11986867 Kamboj

Nah i wouldnt group them as bandaris or baluchis either.

[Thambi]

Could you add a pashtun from Kandahar in that oracle please ?

added the kandahar avg here.

Distance to: TKM_Gonur1_BA
0.06470588 Balochi_A
0.06768086 Makrani
0.07028616 Brahui
0.07347963 Iranian_Bandari
0.07742086 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.07930122 Balochi_B
0.08871021 Parsi_Pakistan
0.08904062 Parsi_India
0.08969412 Pashtun_Kandahar
0.09841478 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.09874345 Iranian_Fars
0.10040646 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.10127609 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
0.10179580 Kalash
0.10391195 Tarkalani
0.10562550 Iranian_Lor
0.10634604 Uthmankhel
0.10958696 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.10999874 Yusufzai
0.11101037 Tajik_Yagnobi
0.11392108 Kurdish
0.11553018 Ezid
0.11771578 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.11795952 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.11827239 Pashtun_Kurram

[Thambi]

Nah i wouldnt group them as bandaris or baluchis either.

True the BMAC are still a decent bit distant to the balochis/bandaris.

[Avicenna]

added the kandahar avg here.

Distance to: TKM_Gonur1_BA
0.06470588 Balochi_A
0.06768086 Makrani
0.07028616 Brahui
0.07347963 Iranian_Bandari
0.07742086 Iranian_Mazandarani
0.07930122 Balochi_B
0.08871021 Parsi_Pakistan
0.08904062 Parsi_India
0.08969412 Pashtun_Kandahar
0.09841478 Iranian_Persian_Shiraz
0.09874345 Iranian_Fars
0.10040646 Iranian_Zoroastrian
0.10127609 Pashtun_North_Afghanistan
0.10179580 Kalash
0.10391195 Tarkalani
0.10562550 Iranian_Lor
0.10634604 Uthmankhel
0.10958696 Talysh_Azerbaijan
0.10999874 Yusufzai
0.11101037 Tajik_Yagnobi
0.11392108 Kurdish
0.11553018 Ezid
0.11771578 Azerbaijani_Dagestan
0.11795952 Tajik_Ishkashim
0.11827239 Pashtun_Kurram

Nice one man, as expected they are the closest afghan pop to the BMAC . Maybe western pashtuns would edge it although they are not too different from kandaharis .

[Avicenna]

Nah i wouldnt group them as bandaris or baluchis either.

Do we know if they had light skin dark hair etc? I mean facial reconstructions are all good ...if you are aware of the individuals facial pigmentation . Those models could possibly look much different if you gave them dark brown hair instead of black , or slightly tanned skin rather than dark olive / brown . Pink lips instead of brown etc etc .

[Avicenna]

It would be interesting to morph those with some EHG reconstruction and check if they look remotely like the Steppe ones

EHG + BMAC average

https://i.ibb.co/yVnMpM5/IMG-20220118-145902.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

CHG/EHG + BMAC average

https://i.ibb.co/0nRwYpW/IMG-20220118-145850.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

Steppe MLBA average + BMAC average

https://i.ibb.co/rvXsFg9/download-23.png (https://imgbb.com/)

BMAC+ Steppe + CHG/EHG

https://i.ibb.co/Jqcmbzp/IMG-20220118-145235.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

BMAC+ EHG + steppe

https://i.ibb.co/Btn2zHy/IMG-20220118-145244.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

BMAC + steppe

https://i.ibb.co/qpBCw9y/IMG-20220118-145255.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

BMAC + CHG/EHG

https://i.ibb.co/93jX94X/IMG-20220118-145305.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

BMAC + EHG

https://i.ibb.co/DM63tLN/IMG-20220118-145328.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

Modern day Afghans ( pashtuns tajiks )

https://i.ibb.co/PWK23wQ/Screenshot-20210902-143537-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/rpYBT4s)
https://i.ibb.co/M1rbmbF/Screenshot-20220117-185707-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/Zg5303q)
https://i.ibb.co/5WnsQCC/Screenshot-20220109-013854-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/JRyrY88)
https://i.ibb.co/HgGPXf6/Screenshot-20220107-110942-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/88PxXLq)
https://i.ibb.co/TrtZhH7/Screenshot-20210908-220635.jpg (https://ibb.co/0QrkJf6)
https://i.ibb.co/PGvCsB7/Screenshot-20210818-171710-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/whF6ZD9)
https://i.ibb.co/fGrvHKX/Screenshot-20210818-171544-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/QjYdMqJ)
https://i.ibb.co/R6P3mPr/Screenshot-20210818-175732-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/yk5615v)
https://i.ibb.co/VBD1X9X/Screenshot-20210818-171521-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/ggw2s9s)
https://i.ibb.co/r41mKpX/Screenshot-20210823-215459-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/D5StPMj)
https://i.ibb.co/xH9cK8s/Screenshot-20210818-171514-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/C2CXpst)
https://i.ibb.co/fQFsSJv/Screenshot-20210818-171959-com-google-android-youtube.jpg (https://ibb.co/R7bqS8y)
https://i.ibb.co/2v7T0v9/Screenshot-20220118-163948.jpg (https://ibb.co/K2jJc2P)

[Kaazi]

EHG + BMAC average



EHG wasnt additional to BMAC + Steppe but WSHG and IVC were. Try BMAC + Steppe + some WSHG + IVCp/AASI.
https://ancestralwhispers.org/reconstructions/sarai


BMAC + CHG/EHG

https://i.ibb.co/93jX94X/IMG-20220118-145305.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)


I guess he looks good as Pashtun.

Your morphs are quite robust than this Pamiri Scythian (Steppe + BMAC + East Siberian). He doesnt show much Siberian/ Mongoloid feature (eye sockets are large).
https://res.cloudinary.com/ancestralwhispers/image/upload/c_fill,fl_lossy,w_1500/v1/fulls/SakaRecon_nj2lnb

[Avicenna]

EHG wasnt additional to BMAC + Steppe but WSHG and IVC were. Try BMAC + Steppe + some WSHG + IVCp/AASI.
https://ancestralwhispers.org/reconstructions/sarai



I guess he looks good as Pashtun.

Your morphs are quite robust than this Pamiri Scythian (Steppe + BMAC + East Siberian). He doesnt show much Siberian/ Mongoloid feature (eye sockets are large).
https://res.cloudinary.com/ancestralwhispers/image/upload/c_fill,fl_lossy,w_1500/v1/fulls/SakaRecon_nj2lnb

What's WSHG? West hunter gatherer? Is the Sahar Nagar rai remains an AASI individual? Isn't IVC mainly Iranian neoithic + a decent amount of aasi?

What would I have to add to the pamiri saka individual to get something along the lines of modern day south central Asians ? iVC right ? Is there any reconstructions ?

This is what I got when I mixed 2/3 BMAC as a proxy for Iran N + 1/3 AASI to get IVC .

Then I mixed 1/3 IVC + 2/3 pamiri saka ( steppe + BMAC + east Siberian )

https://i.ibb.co/6ttGsrR/download-21.png (https://imgbb.com/)
ziploc competitor crossword (https://the-crosswordsolver.com/ziploc-competitor-4-letters)

He deffo can pass as some sort of Tajik or pashtun but I think the other morphs seems more accurate ?

[Hektor12]

What's WSHG?

https://img.a.transfermarkt.technology/portrait/big/418560-1632685669.jpg

[Avicenna]

https://img.a.transfermarkt.technology/portrait/big/418560-1632685669.jpg

All I see is a goat man

[Tsuin]

Indid + Turanid

[rohan]

Why do they have such low hairline

[Avicenna]

Why do they have such low hairline

Because there was no "modern women " to push it back

[Kaazi]

What's WSHG? West hunter gatherer? Is the Sahar Nagar rai remains an AASI individual? Isn't IVC mainly Iranian neoithic + a decent amount of aasi?

What would I have to add to the pamiri saka individual to get something along the lines of modern day south central Asians ? iVC right ? Is there any reconstructions ?

This is what I got when I mixed 2/3 BMAC as a proxy for Iran N + 1/3 AASI to get IVC .

Then I mixed 1/3 IVC + 2/3 pamiri saka ( steppe + BMAC + east Siberian )

https://i.ibb.co/6ttGsrR/download-21.png (https://imgbb.com/)
ziploc competitor crossword (https://the-crosswordsolver.com/ziploc-competitor-4-letters)

He deffo can pass as some sort of Tajik or pashtun but I think the other morphs seems more accurate ?

Pamiri Scythian is already a Mongoloid mixed Tajik like except lil IVCp. Yah, he's ancient and Your morphs are better.

Sarai Nahar Rai is very much likely AASI. He's India (Ganga) Mesolithic.

IVC like SIS BA3 is 45 AASI-45 IranN-10 ANE iirc. Pashtuns are <15% AASI, Tajiks 5-13% ,etc iirc. Its easy to add straight up AASI% if possible.


WSHG is West Siberian HG. He's a mix of EHG+ ANE+ Siberian East Eurasian HG. Tagar is close to WSHG among reconstructed samples. Tagar has East Siberian blood.
https://res.cloudinary.com/ancestralwhispers/image/upload/c_fill,fl_lossy,w_1500/v1/fulls/TagarRecon_ohgrp2


WSHGs were found to be of about 30% EHG ancestry, 50% ANE ancestry, and 20% to 38% East Asian ancestry.[9][19]

[Avicenna]

Pamiri Scythian is already a Mongoloid mixed Tajik like except lil IVCp. Yah, he's ancient and Your morphs are better.

Sarai Nahar Rai is very much likely AASI. He's India (Ganga) Mesolithic.

IVC like SIS BA3 is 45 AASI-45 IranN-10 ANE iirc. Pashtuns are <15% AASI, Tajiks 5-13% ,etc iirc. Its easy to add straight up AASI% if possible.


WSHG is West Siberian HG. He's a mix of EHG+ ANE+ Siberian East Eurasian HG. Tagar is close to WSHG among reconstructed samples. Tagar has East Siberian blood.
https://ancestralwhispers.org/reconstructions/tagar

Wtf this is actually so weird , the tagar reconstruction resembles some afghans I know !!! Except the afghans with that look have darker hair , basically adding a layer of BMAC . This is so interesting lol.

Ngl the aasi reconstruction does not look that australoid , which just shows much people have a strong misconceptions about south Asia and aasi . Heck there are more reconstructions that are very archaic like.

As far as I know majority of afghan pashtuns , depending on the samples used etc , fall between 5-8% aasi , some calculators bump that up to maybe 6-9%.

Would you say this is a good representation of an IVC indivudial? I basically mixed the BMAC (X2) + AASI ( Sarai ) . The bmac is used as a Iran N proxy and the Sarai sample as the aasi ( so 67% Iran N + 33% aasi) . Some ivc samples are even lower than 30% aasi I believe .

https://i.ibb.co/qYMtHDk/download-24.png (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/Gs84PvC/IMG-20220119-163423.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

^ they kinda look like central / south Indians of today no? Reckon they would fit in all parts of India and even Pakistan .

Edit : actually let me add a small layer of ANE. Are they any samples which represent ANE?

[Kaazi]

Wtf this is actually so weird , the tagar reconstruction resembles some afghans I know !!! Except the afghans with that look have darker hair , basically adding a layer of BMAC . This is so interesting lol.

Ngl the aasi reconstruction does not look that australoid , which just shows much people have a strong misconceptions about south Asia and aasi . Heck there are more reconstructions that are very archaic like.

As far as I know majority of afghan pashtuns , depending on the samples used etc , fall between 5-8% aasi , some calculators bump that up to maybe 6-9%.

Would you say this is a good representation of an IVC indivudial? I basically mixed the BMAC (X2) + AASI ( Sarai ) . The bmac is used as a Iran N proxy and the Sarai sample as the aasi ( so 67% Iran N + 33% aasi) . Some ivc samples are even lower than 30% aasi I believe .

https://i.ibb.co/qYMtHDk/download-24.png (https://imgbb.com/)
https://i.ibb.co/Gs84PvC/IMG-20220119-163423.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

Tagar is from Andronovo horizon + East Siberia. So, obviously Central Asian like.

Yes, some IVCp like I1459 are 30% AASI but that will take up large IranN portion. I can't say how they looked like. Their closest folks are SI farmers, Gujaratis, some may resemble Sindhis like IranN enriched IVCs.

Sarai Nahar Rai seems to be a dreadful Hunter Gatherer in Ganges who consumed sufficient animal proteins imo; very rough and tough. Hes one of the tallest human in the Meso world.

https://ancestralwhispers.org/reconstructions/sarai

[Avicenna]

Pamiri Scythian is already a Mongoloid mixed Tajik like except lil IVCp. Yah, he's ancient and Your morphs are better.

Sarai Nahar Rai is very much likely AASI. He's India (Ganga) Mesolithic.

IVC like SIS BA3 is 45 AASI-45 IranN-10 ANE iirc. Pashtuns are <15% AASI, Tajiks 5-13% ,etc iirc. Its easy to add straight up AASI% if possible.


WSHG is West Siberian HG. He's a mix of EHG+ ANE+ Siberian East Eurasian HG. Tagar is close to WSHG among reconstructed samples. Tagar has East Siberian blood.
https://res.cloudinary.com/ancestralwhispers/image/upload/c_fill,fl_lossy,w_1500/v1/fulls/TagarRecon_ohgrp2

This is 90% Iran N + AASI and 10% ANE

90%

https://i.ibb.co/Gs84PvC/IMG-20220119-163423.jpg (https://imgbb.com/)

+

10%
https://i.ibb.co/xKnws1v/Screenshot-20220119-171809.jpg (https://ibb.co/BHhvPyD)


To give IVC ( Iran N AASI and ANE)

https://i.ibb.co/cL7FVJD/download-26.png (https://imgbb.com/)

I genuinely believe that the AASI admixed IVC farmers looked somewhat like that^ . I mean the morph can pass in Gujarat or as Sindhi no problem . That's assuming the BMAC morph looked like the Iranian neoithic farmers .

[Avicenna]

Does anyone know what the Iranian neotlithic farmers consisted of? Caucausus Hunter gatherers + ?