Do North Caucasian people look more similar to Moldovans or Azerbaijanis?

[Oliver109]

discuss

[Jana]

More like Azerbaijanis. They are not very similar to Moldovans at all. Bulgarians would be closer European comparison.

[GoalPoacher]

Azerbaijanis

[Rumata]

I think to Azerbaijanis.

[Kyp]

Edit:


Closer to Azerbaijanis


Many North Caucasian men have very harsh faces that are not passable in Europe and only fit in West Asia. However they tend to be more Robust because of lack of Basal ancestry.


Also they are born much lighter on average than southern caucasus and middle east because of high steppe ancestry. However most grow dark when older, so that difference isnt that strong anymore later on.

[Russki]

Bulgarians would be closer European comparison.

I'd say Cyprus even.

I have a theory that North Caucasians lived in Levant and very recently climbed over the mountains.

[Jana]

I'd say Cyprus even.

I have a theory that North Caucasians lived in Levant and very recently climbed over the mountains.

They have some ancient fertile crescent ancestry, but also lot of ANE which is low in East Med/Levant. They are too robust to fit East Med IMO.
Azerbaijanis also seem fairly robust from what I've seen

North Caucasians even score some Siberian admixture

[Oliver109]

More like Azerbaijanis. They are not very similar to Moldovans at all. Bulgarians would be closer European comparison.

Actually Bulgarians might be more accurate, though i get the impression that they are darker, more like Georgians.

[Jana]

Actually Bulgarians might be more accurate, though i get the impression that they are darker, more like Georgians.

Bulgarians darker than North Caucasians? I don't think so. I just mentioned Bulgarians because they are most robust Balkan people

[Oliver109]

Dagestan people
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9d2b22565d7c7205b9790075ef7ee016-c
https://osgf.ge/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/while-field-work-in-Avarian-villages-167-683x1024.jpg
https://vestikavkaza.ru/upload/files3/11-12.jpg
https://northcaucasusland.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/caucasus-people-dagestan-people-boys-traditional-costumes-north-caucasus.jpg?w=659
https://northcaucasusland.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/dagestan-people-girls-traditional-costumes-north-caucasus-culture.jpg
https://s019.radikal.ru/i626/1204/a6/7e51a26f9d9d.jpg

[Russki]

They have some ancient fertile crescent ancestry, but also lot of ANE which is low in East Med/Levant. They are too robust to fit East Med IMO.
Azerbaijanis also seem fairly robust from what I've seen

North Caucasians even score some Siberian admixture

Caucasians have admixture of the same origin as Chuvashes/Tatars/Bashkirs. I've noticed that they have similar accents too but I don't know if it's related.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b0/Population_structure_of_Turkic-speaking_populations_in_the_context_of_their_geogr aphic_neighbors_across_Eurasia.PNG

[Aspirin]

North Caucasians are very heterogeneous group by look, some can look super swarthy resembling some Gypsies (I think because of high Iranic genetic influence), but some can be very light similar to East Slavs by look. Individually many can pass here, especially Chechens and Circassians.

Some groups like these Chechen graduates look very white (I find them whiter than any Southern Euro group) and I find them similar to Moldavians mostly than to Azeri.

Chechens
https://chechnyatoday.com/images/uploads/2018/05/22/IMG_1009.JPG
https://www.grozny-inform.ru/LoadedImages/2019/05/23/IMG_8422_w1200_h800.jpg

Central Moldavians (Ungheni/Nisporeni districts)
https://scontent.fkiv1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.18172-8/1522730_704290976363444_2642398831549569993_o.jpg? _nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=0gcG5VWJfd4AX_GIwFT&_nc_ht=scontent.fkiv1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9czHHg2xHykObI53xroIjCjcmbYeLlTHwVe-X04wyXqg&oe=620C70BB
https://scontent.fkiv1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/61983161_2374495912572447_7071420304311975936_n.jp g?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=2qk1EAWtTJ8AX9U95kE&_nc_ht=scontent.fkiv1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-rkQGwjdQT2EYAzOh8oQkZA4B4cjqvK_AkxQNo__TTew&oe=620C10FC

[RogueState]

I wonder if the phenotypical gap between "light" North Caucasians and "dark" South Caucasians (especially Armenians-Azeris), is reflected in terms of genetical distance ?

[Kyp]

I wonder if the phenotypical gap between "light" North Caucasians and "dark" South Caucasians (especially Armenians-Azeris), is reflected in terms of genetical distance ?

Yes Northern Caucasus tends to have more Steppe ancestry and less Basal ancestry. But Armenians and Azeris themselves are not that close. Also Western Caucasus differs from Eastern Caucasus.

Although Azeris do have some regions in the northern parts were people are sort of transitional to North Caucasians (Dagestanis).

Armenians tend to have a stronger affinity to other west Caucasian groups.

[Muffinman]

I wonder if the phenotypical gap between "light" North Caucasians and "dark" South Caucasians (especially Armenians-Azeris), is reflected in terms of genetical distance ?

If you look at the chart Russki posted Armenia has more Med farmer ancestry (light blue) and more Gedrosian ancestry (dark green) than other Caucasians. Georgians are practically fully CHG (light green). Chechens and Lezgins are genetically like Armenians if we replaced the Med ancestry with equal amounts of Steppe and CHG. Other Caucasians and especially the Turkic ones are genetically like Georgians with 5% East Eurasian admix + 10-15% Steppe admix. It's no so much distance that matters but the types and magnitude of admixtures.

It's at least visible to me that Armenians, Lezgins, Chechens, Georgians, and Abkhazians are phenotypically the most West Eurasian populations of the Caucasus and that is also reflected by genetics. I can't speak on any other details.

[Sora]

Some can pass as Moldovans but mostly as Azerbaijanis

[Roy]

Dagestan people
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9d2b22565d7c7205b9790075ef7ee016-c
https://osgf.ge/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/while-field-work-in-Avarian-villages-167-683x1024.jpg
https://vestikavkaza.ru/upload/files3/11-12.jpg
https://northcaucasusland.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/caucasus-people-dagestan-people-boys-traditional-costumes-north-caucasus.jpg?w=659
https://northcaucasusland.files.wordpress.com/2014/03/dagestan-people-girls-traditional-costumes-north-caucasus-culture.jpg
https://s019.radikal.ru/i626/1204/a6/7e51a26f9d9d.jpg

They look like Georgians with a tint of Northern mix and Asian element sprinkled in.

[Rumata]

Some can pass as Moldovans but mostly as Azerbaijanis

Many don't really pass as either:

https://avatars.mds.yandex.net/get-zen_doc/108872/pub_5b1a1bf54bf161763b52e500_5b1a1d72799d9d439675a a6f/scale_1200

[Nanushka]

Peoples placed in lowlands later on like Azerbaijan might look Azerbaijani, other than that Northern Caucasians cannot be said to look Azeri particularly. Azeri type is usually more iranid and different than us. But there is also fact that some iranid groups like south Ossetians and few arabic families from Abbasid dynasty when trying to spread islam were placed in Northern Caucasia, (not to mention central Asians) so there is some swarthy effect in that land, so its possible to find darker types more unlike for example Uralic peoples. And yes sometimes very light types may get darker when grow older, e.g hair colour, I have witnessed it myself

my Eurogenes ANE K7 results:

https://i.imgur.com/q20JAZy.jpg

Steppe ancestry is quite visible in highland Avars phenotype in central and northern Dagestan, and red hair is also common, my maternal grandmother was also ginger. These kids are from Gimri, the hometown of Imam Shamil, Avar hero who himself is famously known to have red hair as well:

https://i.imgur.com/XPv5TgK.png

https://i.imgur.com/IlaleOZ.png

https://i.imgur.com/qjATGT6.png

These are authentic, anyone who is interested can watch this documentary of famous journalist and broadcaster Banu Avar (from 2006), herself is ofc Avar:

https://banuavar.com.tr/dagistan-3-hayhide-bir-kafkas-soleni/


I have a theory that North Caucasians lived in Levant and very recently climbed over the mountains.

There is a theory that they have some Sumerian roots and it is possible due to the languages spoken in the northern region. It is also evident that Alans and Scythian branches like Sarmatians and central Asians added to their gene pools. I have been researching about them and red hair specifically in that region

[Russki]

There are quite a few of lighter looking North Caucasians despite their DNA being Levantine-like.

[Nanushka]

There are many pale and very light looking Norhthern Caucasians than you think you know and their DNA is not Levantine-like, its mostly Scythian, Alan, nordic (in mt-DNA) along with central Asian Turkic. Caucasus mountains were natural barrier for southerners although few groups managed to pass, but had some influence in lowlands mainly. Overall they pass more Moldovan than Azeri according to the discussion here

[Russki]

and their DNA is not Levantine-like

But it is. One user found Georgians equidistant to Romanians and Balochi.

[Kyp]

But it is. One user found Georgians equidistant to Romanians and Balochi.

No it isn't. Neither Romanians or Balochis are Levantine like either. So thats not saying anything.

[placebo]

But it is. One user found Georgians equidistant to Romanians and Balochi.

And that's why you think Caucasus people have Levantine-like DNA? LOL.

They are unique and distant to many population.

[Babak]

Definitely Azerbaijanis.

[Babak]

North Caucasians are very heterogeneous group by look, some can look super swarthy resembling some Gypsies (I think because of high Iranic genetic influence), but some can be very light similar to East Slavs by look. Individually many can pass here, especially Chechens and Circassians.

Some groups like these Chechen graduates look very white (I find them whiter than any Southern Euro group) and I find them similar to Moldavians mostly than to Azeri.

Chechens
https://chechnyatoday.com/images/uploads/2018/05/22/IMG_1009.JPG
https://www.grozny-inform.ru/LoadedImages/2019/05/23/IMG_8422_w1200_h800.jpg

Central Moldavians (Ungheni/Nisporeni districts)
https://scontent.fkiv1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t31.18172-8/1522730_704290976363444_2642398831549569993_o.jpg? _nc_cat=103&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=0gcG5VWJfd4AX_GIwFT&_nc_ht=scontent.fkiv1-1.fna&oh=00_AT9czHHg2xHykObI53xroIjCjcmbYeLlTHwVe-X04wyXqg&oe=620C70BB
https://scontent.fkiv1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.6435-9/61983161_2374495912572447_7071420304311975936_n.jp g?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=cdbe9c&_nc_ohc=2qk1EAWtTJ8AX9U95kE&_nc_ht=scontent.fkiv1-1.fna&oh=00_AT-rkQGwjdQT2EYAzOh8oQkZA4B4cjqvK_AkxQNo__TTew&oe=620C10FC

What high genetic iranic influence?

[Avicenna]

What high genetic iranic influence?

Probably couting ossetians as iranic lol

[Aspirin]

What high genetic iranic influence?

Some North Caucasians like Dagestani have visible Iranic admixture compared to other North Caucasians. Despite they have highest Steppe admixture in the region, in term of look they are the darkest and the most exotic ones, they are very heterogeneous, some of them can have a pseudo Gypsy look. Between other North Caucasians like Chechens such individuals are less common, and they have less Steppe admixture, and less Iran too.

https://i.imgur.com/HaAjdd6.jpg
http://suleiman-stalskiy.ru/upload/medialibrary/979/9795f76f04e60b1f94e8ff1d4e058039.JPG
https://riadagestan.ru/upload/iblock/784/784befffc8541d817b3ac8eec86f631b.JPG
https://riadagestan.ru/upload/iblock/54f/54fb663bd6f3aa9280c18e00c22e9430.JPG
https://www.riadagestan.ru/upload/iblock/739/739885be550cf8d9e3dc83dc28fde105.JPG
https://riadagestan.ru/upload/iblock/f18/f183100ac0e554bc25e9193d3afe4184.JPG
http://www.bekenez.ru/%2Fupload%2Fiblock%2Fd7a%2Fc6bc50bf-6ba8-491f-9d6e-78805a237b16.jpg

[Oliver109]

Some North Caucasians like Dagestani have visible Iranic admixture compared to other North Caucasians. Despite they have highest Steppe admixture in the region, in term of look they are the darkest and the most exotic ones, they are very heterogeneous, some of them can have a pseudo Gypsy look. Between other North Caucasians like Chechens such individuals are less common, and they have less Steppe admixture, and less Iran too.

https://i.imgur.com/HaAjdd6.jpg
http://suleiman-stalskiy.ru/upload/medialibrary/979/9795f76f04e60b1f94e8ff1d4e058039.JPG
https://riadagestan.ru/upload/iblock/784/784befffc8541d817b3ac8eec86f631b.JPG
https://riadagestan.ru/upload/iblock/54f/54fb663bd6f3aa9280c18e00c22e9430.JPG
https://www.riadagestan.ru/upload/iblock/739/739885be550cf8d9e3dc83dc28fde105.JPG
https://riadagestan.ru/upload/iblock/f18/f183100ac0e554bc25e9193d3afe4184.JPG
http://www.bekenez.ru/%2Fupload%2Fiblock%2Fd7a%2Fc6bc50bf-6ba8-491f-9d6e-78805a237b16.jpg

People in the last photo look similar to people from Tajikistan, i heard there is a genetic link.