Stearsolina mysterious 1/4 ancestry DNA results

[Jana]

Today my maternal grandma sister finally showed among my matches on ancestry. I don't heave her login data yet, so can't see matches, raw data or genetic regions.
but I can see her ethnicity estimate and it looks like this:

Balkans 39%
Germanic Europe 28%
EE & Russia 13%
Sweden & Denmark 9%
Greece & Albania 7%
Norway 2%
England & NW Europe 2%

Now, based on what I know and when seeing these results, my grandma looks to have been half German (mix of SW German and central German), quarter Serb (Serb from central Croatia), 1/8 Greek (but not from Crete, results would get some Italy/ MENA like, probably central Greece where my ancestral surname peaks) and 1/8 unknown.

We suspected 1/8 unknown could be Hungarian but no, this remaining part looks nearly fully Balkan. This from side that was mixed with Greeks (in Hungary), so perhaps some orthodox minority, like Romanian.
I am leaning Romanian but we can't know until I access her data and matches/regions.

What are your guesses for 1/8 of remaining unknown ancestry?

[Jana]

In case somebody wonders where such crazy mix is from, my grandmother is from Vojvodina (Syrmia and Banat). This was perhaps most multi-ethnic region in entire Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojvodina

[Nurzat]

In case somebody wonders where such crazy mix is from, my grandmother is from Vojvodina (Syrmia and Banat). This was perhaps most multi-ethnic region in entire Europe.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vojvodina


on par with Bukovina and Dobrudja in those times. cool!

[Jana]

on par with Bukovina and Dobrudja in those times. cool!

ethnic map of Vojvodina in 1910
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/13/Vojvodina-1910-Language.gif

[rothaer]

Besides a Romanian, could it not be also simply a Serb?

[Jana]

Besides a Romanian, could it not be also simply a Serb?

Yes, but mix with Greeks occured in Budapest, than descendant came to Vojvodina. Budapest had all kinds of orthodox Balkanites, Romanians, Serbs, Bulgarians, probably also Aromanians.
It I deduce EE and Balkan from Serb side, than remaining 1/8 could score 100% Balkan or 98% Balkan 2% EE on ancestry.

(and part of EE goes to central German side ofc, plus minor part of Balkan goes into Greek 1/8)

[aherne]

Your grandma was obviously half German. Looks like first generation mix of SW Slav with German: maybe that's why you look a bit western shifted?

[Jana]

I tried to assigned this score to most logical ancestry:

1/2 German (28% Germanic Europe, 9% Sweden/Denmark, 2% Norway, 2% England/NW Europe, 9% EE)
1/4 Serb (probably around 21-22% Balkan and 2-4% EE)
1/8 Greek (7% Greece/Albania, 5% Balkan)
1/8 unknown (remaining 10-12% Balkan and possible 0-2% EE)

[MandM]

Damn well it could be anything i mean vojvodina is a melting pot of all sorts of ethnicitys, rusyns,ukranians, slovak, Hungarians,Romanians, Aromanians, Bulgarians, Montenegrin, North Macedonians,German,Gorani,Albanians,Czechs,Russian s,bosnians,jew's, roma, there were even Spanish people who migrated to Vojvodina

[Nurzat]

you have to allow for regional variation, a German in Eastern Europe or the Balkans won't score as one in Germany, Greeks in northern Balkans may have some local mix dragging them north etc.

so, based on regional variation, an additional source, like Romanian, is not necessarily needed, it can be covered by variation in the other sources, as needed, be it to south/north/west/east..

[Jana]

Your grandma was obviously half German. Looks like first generation mix of SW Slav with German: maybe that's why you look a bit western shifted?

Half German yes, but other side is bit more complicated. I know for sure she was 1/4 Serb, and she should be 1/8 Greek (her grandfather was called Alexander Demetros, his father should be fully Greek, mother unknown)
SW Slavs don't score Greece/Albania (people from Croatia and Bosnia as a rule get zero), especially not such amount. They get heavy Balkan and bit of EE.

But my remining 1/8 could absolutely be SW Slav by looking at these results, yes.

[Jana]

you have to allow for regional variation, a German in Eastern Europe or the Balkans won't score as one in Germany

Not really. Unmixed Danube Swabians score same as Germans in Germany. However her German side does not look fully SW German. She gets too much of Scandinavia and bit of EE too. But that could be explained with one of my German surnames which isn't southern but central German and minor part of Banat Swabians came from central Germany - now known as east Germany)


Greeks in northern Balkans may have some local mix dragging them north etc.
so, based on regional variation, an additional source, like Romanian, is not necessarily needed, it can be covered by variation in the other sources, as needed, be it to south/north/west/east..

Not exactly. My grandmother grand-grandfather was immigrant from Greece according to what we know, there are no autochtonous Greeks in Hungary. They were just merchants and bankers in big cities like Budapest.

[rothaer]

I tried to assigned this score to most logical ancestry:

1/2 German (28% Germanic Europe, 9% Sweden/Denmark, 2% Norway, 2% England/NW Europe, 9% EE)
1/4 Serb (probably around 21-22% Balkan and 2-4% EE)
1/8 Greek (7% Greece/Albania, 5% Balkan)
1/8 unknown (remaining 10-12% Balkan and possible 0-2% EE)

Yes and that implies the unknown part to have had abt. 80-90% Balkans (AncestryDNA). My consideration is this: Out of all Orthodox people (suitable to mingle with an Orthodox Greek) maybe a Serb could do it even better than a Romanian.
Actually, what you do assign to the unknown 1/8 has almost exactly the Balkan/EE proportions that you assigned to the Serb 1/4.

[Dunai]

Yes, but mix with Greeks occured in Budapest, than descendant came to Vojvodina. Budapest had all kinds of orthodox Balkanites, Romanians, Serbs, Bulgarians, probably also Aromanians.
It I deduce EE and Balkan from Serb side, than remaining 1/8 could score 100% Balkan or 98% Balkan 2% EE on ancestry.

(and part of EE goes to central German side ofc, plus minor part of Balkan goes into Greek 1/8)

Budapest never had any notable Orthodox population. We have censuses for the whole city beginning with 1869 and that's when they had the highest percentage, 0.7%. As a curiosity even in 1930 20% were of Jewish religion.

[Jana]

Budapest never had any notable Orthodox population. We have censuses for the whole city beginning with 1869 and that's when they had the highest percentage, 0.7%. As a curiosity even in 1930 20% were of Jewish religion.

Maybe they converted, idk. In any case, admix does not look Hungarian, it's too Balkan. All of these had presence in Budapest, Croats too, but I assume orthodox Greek immigrant will prefer to marry another orthodox, at least in first generation.
This is all speculation for now.

[Jana]

Yes and that implies the unknown part to have had abt. 80-90% Balkans (AncestryDNA). My consideration is this: Out of all Orthodox people (suitable to mingle with an Orthodox Greek) maybe a Serb could do it even better than a Romanian.
Actually, what you do assign to the unknown 1/8 has almost exactly the Balkan/EE proportions that you assigned to the Serb 1/4.

Yes. Remaining 1/8 looks identical in score to my Serb 1/4.

[Dušan]

Obviously grandma is 37.5% Serb, that means Stearsolina is 9.375% Serb.
Quite a lot for her, I would say :p

[Jana]

Obviously grandma is 37.5% Serb, that means Stearsolina is 9.375% Serb.
Quite a lot for her, I would say :p

It is absolutely possible based on these results I must admit :o

[Art23]

Looks 60% Balkan, 40% Germanic.

[Jana]

Looks 60% Balkan, 40% Germanic.

No, it doesn't. Part of Eastern European is from German side, which is far from pure Germanic (lots of Celtic and minor Slavic).
Result looks half German half Balkan, of which is known part is Serb and part Greek, and 1/8 remains unknown.

[Aodhan]

Thracian?

[Art23]

No, it doesn't. Part of Eastern European is from German side, which is far from pure Germanic (lots of Celtic and minor Slavic).

Based on paper trail? Because this Eastern European is received by regular Croats on Ancestry having nothing Germanic at all.

[Jana]

Based on paper trail? Because this Eastern European is received by regular Croats on Ancestry having nothing Germanic at all.

Are you thick? My grandmother has zero Croatian ancestry. Read the thread, don't ask me stupid questions.

[Ayetooey]

Remaining 1/8 is probably Serb, maybe Bunjevci/Croat. It will be helpful when you can see what regions she scores. It could plausibly be Romanian also since from what I've seen they score a Balkan/EE mix on ADna.

[Jana]

Remaining 1/8 is probably Serb, maybe Bunjevci/Croat. It will be helpful when you can see what regions she scores. It could plausibly be Romanian also since from what I've seen they score a Balkan/EE mix on ADna.

I completely agree, one of these 3 is most logical possibility.

[Ayetooey]

I completely agree, one of these 3 is most logical possibility.

Some Hungarians in Banat were of Székely origin. Some Székely like former user Chris (who I think was either half or full Székelys?) score high Balkan. So I think its not impossible the 1/8th could be Hungarian as well. So I'd say one of those 4 even.

[rothaer]

Based on paper trail? Because this Eastern European is received by regular Croats on Ancestry having nothing Germanic at all.

Yes, based on paper trail. And if you read the thread start you'll see that the testee has no Croatian ancestry (left beside the 1/8 unknown, that the thread is about).

As for the German part of the testee, there is also the surname Seifert f. i. While most German settlers came from Southwest Germany this surname indicate a more Central German origin (see following surnname distriubution map as for 1890).

https://i.imgur.com/PM3sIfE.jpg

Germans from there can score abt. 40% Eastern European at AncestryDNA.

[Jana]

Some Hungarians in Banat were of Székely origin. Some Székely like former user Chris (who I think was either half or full Székelys?) score high Balkan. So I think its not impossible the 1/8th could be Hungarian as well. So I'd say one of those 4 even.

True. I even took that possiblility. Chris was even just half Szekely and had full Balkan results. Could be also magyarized Balkanite.
I really hope her regions and matches could shed some light on that.

[Jana]

I feel like going crazy because I can't access her data yet....in comparison here are results of my maternal grandpa sister, she is also tested and I can't access her results either!

Balkans 88%
EE & Russia 12%

She is of fully Croat origin. At least now I don't need to test my mother or uncle at ancestry, because I can reconstruct her results based on these two full siblings of her parents.
But ffs, it's really challenge to wait until these old ladies reply to my mails/messages!!!

Both of these women are old and live overseas (one in the OP in Canada, this another one in US), so communication is quite challenging.

[rothaer]

I've got some information that could be relevant. As for assessing the "Greece & Albania" component I asked someone that knows 4 Romanian AncestryDNA results:

The Balkans: 58
Greece & Albania: 33
Eastern European: 5
England & NWE: 2
South Italy: 2

The Balkans: 60
Greece & Albania: 35
Eastern European: 5

The Balkans: 85
Greece & Albania: 3
Eastern European: 12

The Balkans: 74
Greece & Albania: 20
Eastern European: 6

[Jana]

I've got some information that could be relevant. As for assessing the "Greece & Albania" component I asked someone that knows 4 Romanian AncestryDNA results:

The Balkans: 58
Greece & Albania: 33
Eastern European: 5
England & NWE: 2
South Italy: 2

The Balkans: 60
Greece & Albania: 35
Eastern European: 5

The Balkans: 85
Greece & Albania: 3
Eastern European: 12

The Balkans: 74
Greece & Albania: 20
Eastern European: 6

Thanks! Are these southern Romanians? If these are are standard Romanian ancestry results, than remaining 1/8 does not look Romanian, but much more like a Serb.

[rothaer]

Thanks! Are these southern Romanians? If these are are standard Romanian ancestry results, than remaining 1/8 does not look Romanian, but much more like a Serb.

That are matches of a German Transsylvanian Saxon that by him are considered basically fully Romanians. The first one may have a very small German contribution. There might also be false matches among them, i. e. in fact having no valid match with that Saxon. But it doesn't matter in this context. However, as I got it he can not determine from where in Romania they are.

[Jana]

That are matches of a German Transsylvanian Saxon that by him are considered basically fully Romanians. The first one may have a very small German contribution. There might also be false matches among them, i. e. in fact having no valid match with that Saxon. But it doesn't matter in this context. However, as I got it he can not determine from where in Romania they are.

Thank you :)

Well, for now I would exclude Romanian admix than.

[rothaer]

Thanks! Are these southern Romanians? If these are are standard Romanian ancestry results, than remaining 1/8 does not look Romanian, but much more like a Serb.

Yes.

(Just mathematically: 1/4 of such a Romanian could likely replace 1/8 Greek and 1/8 Serb...)

[Jased]

Nice, from what I remember you do look very German.

[Jana]

Yes.

Just mathematically: 1/4 of such a Romanian could likely even replace 1/8 Greek and 1/8 Serb...

theoretically yes.
But why would it? Grandma and her sister have known Greek ancestry, Romanian is just a speculation.

[Jana]

Nice, from what I remember you do look very German.

you didn't see my mother/uncle....they look like typical Germans. I look odd mix between German-Slavic-Med look IMO.
it's funny because I obviously inherited rather little from this side

I get less German than I have on paper, and I don't get any Greek at all.
dna recombination works like that sometimes.

[Jased]

you didn't see my mother/uncle....they look like typical Germans. I look odd mix between German-Slavic-Med look IMO.
it's funny because I obviously inherited rather little from this side

I get less German than I have on paper, and I don't get any Greek at all.
dna recombination works like that sometimes.

Genetics are crazy , you perfectly pass among white Americans from the Midwest.

[Jana]

https://i.imgur.com/pbVqmXF.png

[Jana]

...

[Jana]

1 North_Atlantic 36.34
2 Baltic 23.49
3 East_Med 15.37
4 West_Med 14.35
5 West_Asian 7.32
6 Red_Sea 1.37
7 South_Asian 1.33
8 East_Asian 0.33
9 Oceanian 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

1 Austrian 8.37
2 West_German 8.47
3 Serbian 9.13
4 Hungarian 9.39
5 South_Dutch 10.14
6 French 10.21
7 East_German 10.95
8 Romanian 11.56
9 North_German 14.29
10 Bulgarian 14.32
11 Moldavian 14.57
12 Croatian 14.65
13 Southeast_English 15.39
14 North_Italian 15.58
15 Portuguese 15.63
16 Spanish_Cataluna 15.67
17 Spanish_Galicia 16.17
18 Danish 16.3
19 North_Dutch 16.63
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 16.86

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

1 54.9% Danish + 45.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.6
2 60.9% Swedish + 39.1% Ashkenazi @ 2.71
3 66.5% North_German + 33.5% Ashkenazi @ 2.79
4 51.7% Norwegian + 48.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.79
5 58.3% North_German + 41.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.9
6 60.4% Norwegian + 39.6% Ashkenazi @ 2.95
7 54.4% North_Dutch + 45.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 3
8 51.9% Bulgarian + 48.1% Southeast_English @ 3.05
9 63.5% Danish + 36.5% Ashkenazi @ 3.19
10 57.5% Romanian + 42.5% Southeast_English @ 3.2
11 52.2% Swedish + 47.8% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.22
12 65.3% Swedish + 34.7% Italian_Jewish @ 3.25
13 64.1% West_German + 35.9% Bulgarian @ 3.29
14 65.9% Swedish + 34.1% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.34
15 58.7% West_German + 41.3% Romanian @ 3.35
16 59.8% Swedish + 40.2% East_Sicilian @ 3.42
17 59% Swedish + 41% Central_Greek @ 3.44
18 63.1% North_Dutch + 36.9% Ashkenazi @ 3.45
19 61.9% Swedish + 38.1% South_Italian @ 3.45
20 51.3% Tuscan + 48.7% North_Swedish @ 3.52

[Jana]

I checked matches and:

- zero Hungarian or Romanian matches
- tons of German matches, most of them Danube Swabians but also all kinds of other Germans
- quite a few Greek matches, I will post heir results here because I wonder where they are from regionally
- many Serb matches, lot of them Lika Serbs but also some native Vojvodina/Serbia Serbs
- some Croatian and west Slavic matches (but that can be shared ancestry with Serbs/Germans)

Based on this, looks like my remaining 1/8 is Vojvodina Serb. I match some full Serbian Serbs with paper trail that look only from Vojvodina and have surnames I think are native in Vojvodina (like -ov ending)
That could explain autosomal results that look half German half east Balkan. Vojvodina Serbs are quite southern. So mix of Lika Serb, Vojvodina Serb and likely central Greek will end up somewhere in Bulgaria.

[Hektor12]

Based on this, looks like my remaining 1/8 is Vojvodina Serb.

Everything is over.

Youre not mama anymore.

Goodbye.

[Jana]

edited

[Jana]

Everything is over.

Youre not mama anymore.

Goodbye.

I just trying to figure out.

[Jana]

Bssed on this, my mom's Dalmatian Croat father was Slavic/Baltic as fuck! Because my mom has still normal Baltic score and her granny sis has Baltic score on Bulgarian/North Macedonian level.
he possibly scores like 37% Baltic and very low North Atlantic, some Islanders are like that.

[Ion Basescul]

I've got some information that could be relevant. As for assessing the "Greece & Albania" component I asked someone that knows 4 Romanian AncestryDNA results:

The Balkans: 58
Greece & Albania: 33
Eastern European: 5
England & NWE: 2
South Italy: 2

The Balkans: 60
Greece & Albania: 35
Eastern European: 5

The Balkans: 85
Greece & Albania: 3
Eastern European: 12

The Balkans: 74
Greece & Albania: 20
Eastern European: 6

Most whom I match don't score any Greece & Albania or in few quantities. Something like the 3rd result is probably close to the average.

[Ion Basescul]

Bssed on this, my mom's Dalmatian Croat father was Slavic/Baltic as fuck!

Not necessarily, because autosomal inheritance is not 100% precise. Also don't forget to check with K12b, because sometimes there are obvious discrepancies.
This is one of those things where you cannot say for certain unless you test.

[Jana]

As for German side mostly these are Danube Swabians with further origins from SW Germany (baden württemberg), but she even matches full Lower Silesian who shares ne surname with her.
Looks like her German side was mostly Swabian and partly central German as predicted. Distant Lower Silesian German match can explain some West Slavic matches she gets I assume.

[Jana]

Not necessarily, because autosomal inheritance is not 100% precise. Also don't forget to check with K12b, because sometimes there are obvious discrepancies.
This is one of those things where you cannot say for certain unless you test.

I have this Dalmatian grandpa sister tested too! I just access her results yet (she lives in USA). Will check K12b.

[Jana]

1 North_European 38.17
2 Atlantic_Med 31.97
3 Caucasus 15.85
4 Gedrosia 7.25
5 Southwest_Asian 4.83
6 Northwest_African 1.64
7 South_Asian 0.28

Distance to: Grandma_Sister

4.82667587 German_Bavaria
5.07475123 Austrian_Tyrol
5.41165409 Swiss_French
5.66026501 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
6.78359049 Swiss_German
7.45759345 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
7.97922302 Serb
8.06375223 Hungarian
8.07178419 French_Northeast
8.14617702 Romanian_Maramures
8.29180921 Romanian_Crisana
8.48080185 Croat_South
8.51669537 Romanian_North-Moldavia
8.65892603 Belgian
8.70291331 Romanian_Transylvania
8.73384795 Romanian_South-Moldavia
8.98935482 French_North
9.03685786 Slovenian
9.09326124 Bosnian
9.15391173 Hungarian_Alföld
9.25659765 Croat
9.45609856 Moldovan_Central
9.49215466 Montenegrin
9.54076517 Romanian_Banat
10.20376401 Moldovan_South

Target: Grandma_Sister
Distance: 0.8948% / 0.89483774 | ADC: 0.25x RC

52.2 Swiss_French
43.3 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
1.7 Algerian
1.5 Saudi
1.3 Balochi

Target: Grandma_Sister
Distance: 2.1389% / 2.13891070 | ADC: 0.5x RC

51.3 Swiss_French
48.7 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely

[Jana]

where in Greece would say these Greeks are from? those are among her top matches. I would guess central Greece / Pelopponese but need help with that.

#1

83% Greece/Albania
11% Aegean Islands
3% Balkans
2% Iran/Persia
1% Malta

#2

74% Greece/Albania
8% Balkans
8% Aegean Islands
7% North Italy
2% South Italy
1% EE/Russia

#3

49% Greece/Albania
28% Aegean Islands
21% Balkans
2% Iran/Persia

#4

47% Greece/Albania
33% Balkans
13% Aegean Islands
3% Cyprus
2% North Italy
2% Anatolia/Caucasus

[Ion Basescul]

However, as I got it he can not determine from where in Romania they are.

Here's with the location from my matches. I am just showing a couple, since obviously there are tons.

On the right


Arad
https://i.ibb.co/nmt0xF1/image.png

Arges
https://i.ibb.co/YP8yTtY/image.png

Hunedoara
https://i.ibb.co/48XppxQ/image.png

Arad
https://i.ibb.co/JH9LRtP/image.png

Vaslui
https://i.ibb.co/dBczhZx/image.png

Timis
https://i.ibb.co/VST0zpP/image.png

Bistrita-Nasaud
https://i.ibb.co/N6wpGcC/image.png

Timis
https://i.ibb.co/cg6NmNk/image.png

Vaslui
https://i.ibb.co/vJvqFQC/image.png

Sibiu
https://i.ibb.co/GxFWy1p/image.png

Botosani
https://i.ibb.co/R7hssTp/image.png

Dolj
https://i.ibb.co/0Q1TTFk/image.png

Iasi
https://i.ibb.co/JtYynMX/image.png

Timis
https://i.ibb.co/Z6chncS/image.png

[Jana]

This also proves all these EE genetic regions I scored on Ancestry are nonsense.

[Jana]

Origins and locations of my Aunt Greek matches:

https://i.imgur.com/m1PEs5E.png

So it looks like Peloponnese, Ionian Islands, central Greece and western Macedonia. No Crete.

[Jana]

here is her updated K13 in correct form (thanks Mr.G!)

Distance to: Grandma_Sister

4.51382321 Austrian_Burgenland
6.13551954 Austrian_Tyrol
6.36213015 German_Bavaria_Proper
7.02799402 German_Baden-Württemberg
7.32717544 Swiss_German
7.33465746 German_Bavarian_Swabia
7.47515217 German_West_Bohemia
7.48259313 German_Bavaria_Oberpfalz
7.56357720 Austrian
7.61571402 Austrian_Salzburg-Upper_Austria
7.67356501 Swiss_French
7.79213065 French_Alsace
8.42056411 German_Bavaria_Lower/Middle_Franconia
8.65346607 Austrian_Lower_Austria
9.03457249 German_Rhineland-Palatinate
9.44036546 German_South_Hesse
9.51897053 German_North_Hesse
9.71178150 German_Thuringia_Central
9.88241873 German_North_Moravia
10.17984283 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
10.22094418 German_North_Rhine
10.67576227 Italian_Friuli
10.75232998 French_Northeast
11.03595487 German_Saarland
11.05683499 German_County_Glatz

Target: Grandma_Sister
Distance: 0.9585% / 0.95850865

30.4 German_Thuringia_Central
19.0 Austrian_Burgenland
18.0 German_Hamburg
15.7 Greek_Western_Thrace
7.6 Lebanese_Druze
5.4 Swiss_Italian
3.7 German_Frisian
0.2 Italian_Lombardy

Target: Grandma_Sister
Distance: 1.3655% / 1.36548074 | ADC: 0.25x RC

79.4 Austrian_Burgenland
16.9 Italian_Friuli
3.7 Lebanese_Druze

Target: Grandma_Sister
Distance: 1.5117% / 1.51166063 | R2P

53.3 German_Hamburg
46.7 Greek_Western

[Flashball]

Do you have her G25?

[Jana]

Do you have her G25?

I wanted to get it, but Eurogenes web shop is closed until summer.